Gabrielle & Danielle Davenport Transcript
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Hi, everyone. You're listening to The Future Of Food Is You, a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Abena Anim-Somuah, and each week I talk to emerging talents in the food world and they share what they're up to, as well as their dreams and predictions for what's ahead. As for me, I'm the founder of The Eden Place, a community that's all about gathering people intentionally around food. I love this new generation of chefs, bakers, and creatives making their way in the world of food, drink, media, and tech.
Today's guests are Danielle and Gabrielle Davenport. The sisters are co-founders and owners of BEM Books & More, an online store and popup dedicated to black authors in food literature. Danielle, who's an actor and writer, and Gabrielle, who's a creative producer, chat about how their family's love of cooking inspired the store, learning about the state of the publishing industry, and their dreams to open a brick and mortar space rooted in community. Stick around to hear what books they're reading and looking forward to this fall.
Thank you to Kerrygold for supporting the Future of Food Is You. Kerrygold is the iconic Irish brand famous for its rich butter and cheese, made in Ireland with milk from grass-fed cows. I was recently in Ireland with Kerrygold, and got to meet some of the people behind their signature butter and cheese. I spent an afternoon with Kerrygold's cheese tasters to learn how classic cheddars, like Dubliner and Skellig, are aged. I visited the Ballymaloe Cookery School, and watched Rachel Allen make some champ, which is basically an Irish take on mashed potatoes filled with scallions and Kerrygold salted butter, in the gold foil, of course. We also spent an afternoon with the Grubb Ferno family, the cheese makers behind the Kerrygold Cashel blue farmhouse cheese, perfect for any cheeseboard or salad topping. It was wonderful just to see how Kerrygold is such a big part of Irish culinary culture. We even got to meet the famous cows. The Cleary family in County Waterford introduced us to their herd, and I learned so much about what goes into producing the best milk for Kerrygold's butter and cheese. Be on the lookout for some cow selfies on my Instagram. Each time I reach for my favorite unsalted butter or yummy cheddar, I'll be thinking of those cows and their dreamy pasture. Look for Kerrygold butter and cheese at your favorite supermarket, specialty grocery store, or cheese shop, and visit kerrygoldusa.com for recipes and product information.
Some Cherry Bombe housekeeping, this is for all you cookbook lovers. On Saturday, November 11th, Cherry Bombe is hosting its third annual cookbook festival, Cooks & Books at Ace Hotel, Brooklyn. The day will be filled with panel discussions and live demos from your favorite cookbook authors, including Sohla El-Waylly and Abi Balingit. Tickets are on sale at cherrybombe.com. Get your tickets now before they sell out. Also, if you want to make a weekend of it and stay at the Ace Hotel Brooklyn, use code CHERRYB for 15% off when booking on acehotel.com.
Now, let's check in with today's guests. Danielle, Gabrielle, thank you both so much for joining us on the Future Food Is You podcast.
Danielle Davenport:
Thank you for having us.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I know.
Danielle Davenport:
It's wonderful to be here and chatting with you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Can you tell us where you grew up and how did food show up in your life?
Danielle Davenport:
I'm from East Orange, New Jersey originally, and moved around a bunch growing up. So, I've been in New York for 20 years now-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Very nice.
Danielle Davenport:
... so this is definitely home. And we come from a big food family. Everybody cooks, everybody eats, all the stories are told around the table, so I can't think of memory outside of food, if that makes sense. Everything is tied to whether it's holidays or just small moments and learning to cook with our mom who is an incredible cook. And all of the family legacy stories, food has just always been present and such a source of connection and love, and all the good stuff.
Gabrielle Davenport:
I grew up in Oakland, California. As Danielle was saying, our family moved a little bit, so both of our parents are from East Orange, New Jersey. That's where all of our extended family is. But by the time I was six we were in the Bay Area. Like my sister was just saying, food was always at the center of what we were doing. I think a lot about how my mom talked about California cuisine influenced her cooking over my lifetime, and how much that's influenced how I cook and eat now. But again, it's always been a mix of what our family was already eating, the Jamaican classics that she learned from her first landlord when she was, I don't know, in her early 20s maybe. And then of course, some of the Mediterranean inspired farro that is really accessible in northern California. So, all of that. I think I also, especially when I was really young, I feel like I was the baker. You and mom would be cooking the dinner and I would make, I don't know, little pie crust cookies and stuff like that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, so cute.
Gabrielle Davenport:
I was very proud of that for a long time, and we all had our positions within the kitchen, and it was an ecosystem and we were all moving around each other. So, those are some of my favorite memories in the house that I grew up in.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And you both went to college in the city?
Gabrielle Davenport:
Yes.
Danielle Davenport:
We did.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You both went to Barnard.
Danielle Davenport:
We did.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
When you got here, what did your food connection look like? Obviously experiencing college in that part of the city is amazing. You've got Harlem, you've got Morningside Heights, you've got all these different areas where food is just abundant.
Gabrielle Davenport:
So true.
Danielle Davenport:
For me, I was excited to sort of explore the city and be out and about as much as possible. I studied theater and comparative literature, so between in rehearsals and doing the shows and reading the books and all the... I sometimes wish that I had done more socializing and exploring, and all of that. But I was pretty sure that I was going to be in New York for the long haul. So, I'm trying to think of what were some of the food moments that made the biggest impressions on me up at Barnard. But I feel like just in general, exploring the city and finding all the flavors in different places.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Especially in the theater district too, I'm sure there's diners, pizza shops, just places you're going in between to spark joy, just to fuel yourself, if anything.
Danielle Davenport:
Yeah, I feel like it's so many of the small, especially on a budget as a college student running around, whether it's the best slice - like Koronet's Pizza, shout out for the Columbia, Barnard, or Morningside Heights community with these giant slices. Yeah, I feel like it was lots of quick things, or the falafel spot, or my favorite chicken sandwich from the spot that is... What was it called? I think it was like Nacho Mama's or something, underneath the dorm at 110-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Perfect name.
Danielle Davenport:
And they had this particular... I think that that was maybe the first sandwich with chipotle mayo, a chicken sandwich with cheese, chipotle mayo. It was super simple, super delicious, a go-to for sure. And then, lots of Dominican food, just chicken, rice and beans, maduros. That was always a go-to. I'm a sucker for some chipotle mayo on something, but I feel like that's maybe where it all began.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so fun. How about you, Gabrielle? Obviously, you guys have a bit of an age gap, so there are some things that you got-
Gabrielle Davenport:
Different generation.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
... weren't there in New York?
Gabrielle Davenport:
Yeah, Koronet’s was still around by the time I got to Barnard, Nacho Mama's was not, I have to say. One food memory from college that I think about all the time was, my senior year I lived in a single and it was basically in a regular residential building, and I remember roasting my first chicken in this tiny oven for my best friend, Annie, and I was on the phone with my sister about, okay, how do I do... I wasn't really dealing with raw chicken all that much.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You coming from the Bay Area suburbs to your shoebox apartment.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Yeah, I ate a lot of chicken, but I wasn't cooking whole chickens. So I was like, all right, I need a lot of guidance and advice on how this is going to go. And it turned out quite well. We basically just had it with Dijon mustard and some bread. It was very-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so classy.
Gabrielle Davenport:
... a very basic, but so delicious. We were like, "What? Why haven't we been doing this the whole time?" So, that's one food memory. That friend is also from the Bay Area, and I feel like so much of our adventures at Barnard were around finding good music and good food that felt like home. But even before that, my freshman year, I was basically sick my whole first year of college, I just caught... College dorms are like Petri dishes, so everything that came through-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You were attracting, unfortunately.
Gabrielle Davenport:
... wonderfully fell ill with. I eventually realized I started going to a naturopath, and eventually realized that I had all these food allergies. And it was pretty night and day because when I stopped eating gluten and stopped eating dairy, my body worked. I was like, whoa, this is a whole new way of being in the world. It was very interesting to be doing that on a college campus, where you don't have as much control over what you're eating, you don't have as much access, et cetera. So, I ate a lot of weird dining hall salads with just the burgers cut up into it as the protein, not like an actual burger, but just... Because salad and honey mustard dressing and just burger patty, what is that? I ate it a lot-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
True college balance.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Yeah, it was really. My friends were like, "What's going on?"
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Ball on a budget.
Gabrielle Davenport:
I was like, it's fine, you don't understand. I just had my little fries, it worked out well. But that was really discovering what actually worked for me to eat was a big part of my college journey and a big part of being in New York. And rice and beans and maduros, and Dominican and Peruvian style chicken, all of that was like, oh, this works. This I can eat. I don't need to be eating pasta and bread all the time. So, that's what I think of.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And so, you both end up staying in New York. Gabrielle, you work in events. What has been your experience working in events in New York?
Gabrielle Davenport:
It's been wide-ranging. When I first graduated, I started working in live arts producing mostly, so I was doing a lot of music and some dance and theater producing, and it was super fun. When I first graduated from Barnard, I knew I was either going to go into food or into music, and I ended up getting a job in music stuff first. So, I stayed there. But what I've realized is the thing I really love about it is creating rich experiences for people. I've certainly experienced what I would describe as life-changing experiences through food and music. And so, creating beautiful spaces where people can come as they are and commune with other people who also care about whatever that thing is, is really I think an honor and a privilege if you do it well. So, that has been the core of my work in New York, and it is exhausting and ridiculous, but also can be a lot of fun. It's exciting to now at this point in the pandemic and in BEMs growth, to be able to do more of that in person for the bookstore.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Danielle, you mentioned you were theater and comparative literature major. How did New York serve as a place for you to discover your love of literature and discover the books that you're reading, the things you're excited about, the offers that you want to discover and all that?
Danielle Davenport:
It's so interesting. I feel like for me in college, talking about the food experience in college, so much of the biggest food moments for me were really like, okay, what leftovers can I bring for my aunts house? Being able to go to Jersey for the weekend and come back, and be stocked for the week. For me as I was graduating, it was really books or theater. My sister had food and music and I had the books or theater piece. I was either going to apply to PhD programs and go all the way with CompLit, or jump into the world of auditioning in New York theater and see what would happen. And I took that path, and it's been a wild and wonderful one.
It's really exciting for me to think about my relationship to language, and whether that's on the printed page in a book or on the stage, and how you bring a script alive and so forth. For me, it felt very continuous. On the one hand there was waiting tables in order to make the actor's life work, and just all of those restaurant experiences being eyeopening. And my favorite piece was learning for the server test, and having the kitchen stage where you just watch everything, and I'm learning techniques. There's still an omelet that I make that was on the menu at the first restaurant that I ever worked at. It was balsamic, onions, tomato, spinach, and white cheddar.
Gabrielle Davenport:
It's so good.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That sounds glorious.
Danielle Davenport:
It's so good. And that was just watching, and learning, and seeing. And so, there was so much of that was feeding me quite literally during that time. And then, whether tutoring or translating, or again, digging into amazing plays and scripts, and doing lots of theater first and then more film and TV as things evolved, it was just always about what can words do. This book, JT Austin, how to do things with words, constantly figuring out how many things I could do with words in many ways, and being super inspired by that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back.
Kerry Diamond:
Hi everybody, I'm Kerry Diamond, the founder of Cherry Bombe, and the editor in chief of Cherry Bombe Magazine. Cherry Bombe's Cooks and Books Festival is taking place Saturday, November 11th, at Ace Hotel Brooklyn. It's New York City's only cookbook festival. We have so many amazing authors joining us. I want to tell you about one panel in particular. At 3:00 PM on the 11th, we have a terrific panel called Moms the Bombe, featuring Sohla El-Waylly, Fany Gerson, Camille Becerra and Samantha Seneviratna. Camilla Marcus of West-bourne will be moderating this lively conversation about motherhood, kids in the kitchen, family meal, and more. Head to cherrybombe.com to snag a ticket and check out the full lineup while you're there. All tickets are $20.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I know before you guys started, bam, you took a trip to West Africa, specifically Ghana and Senegal. So fun fact, my family is from the... I know you went to the Aburi Botanical Gardens. My parents honeymooned there, and actually that's the area where my mom is from. I'm curious to hear, especially as black Americans going to Africa, reading about it, experiencing it, what was that experience like for you, and how did it spark the interest to really think about them and start to work on them?
Danielle Davenport:
We had such amazing meals while we were there, and one thing that was really special too of my best friends from college, two of them had studied and spent quite a while in Senegal afterward. And one of them, her parents live in Ghana, so we were just able to connect through family connections and family friends in really close ways, and have amazing meals, and be in people's homes, and have a new friend who immediately felt like family take us to the market. And so, the whole experience was just so incredibly amazingly shaped by being able to connect with folks and not just in a tourist, "I think that's happening over there," but a come sit, eat with me, around the bowl, it was just an incredible experience.
The meals were incredible, as were the connection, and just thinking about all of the ways that our history intertwines and goes apart and comes back together, and all of the dynamics around that. It was just, we all know it intellectually, but to feel it when you stand in some of those spaces and moving around, it was really incredible.
Gabrielle Davenport:
I think also being in a black country, two different black countries, where we both traveled a lot in the Caribbean and even going... I remember going to Cuba for the first time, and seeing folks of such a range of skin tones, speaking Spanish and so forth, that was really eyeopening. Or going to Brazil, but being on the continent, and seeing all of those black folks doing everything that makes the society move, I was like, "What?" I wish this was more available to me, especially as a younger person. We had such a vision for what the trip was going to be, and I think it really delivered in so many ways. There was again, so many incredible meals, so much great music, and being able to experience some of that with folks who were actually from there, was perfect. Especially right before the pandemic. We couldn't have known what was coming right after, so we were really grateful to have been able to go when we did. And
Abena Anim-Somuah:
For you Gabrielle, what were the conversations like about, oh okay, maybe when we get back we can start this bookstore? Were there particular places or moments that really drove that conversation home?
Gabrielle Davenport:
That's such a good question. So, we talked about opening a business together for a long time. Basically since I was in college. We actually had an Etsy shop.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So cute.
Gabrielle Davenport:
We were making these arm knit scarves. Anyway, that was maybe our first-
Danielle Davenport:
I totally forgot about that.
Gabrielle Davenport:
... our first business together. So, we'd been talking about opening a business together for a minute, and we're trying to figure out exactly what would make sense. We both live in Bed-Stuy, and knew that we wanted it to be of the community that we were in. We were massaging the idea for a while. At the time there wasn't a main indie bookstore in Bed-Stuy. There are now a handful, which are all wonderful, but there really wasn't one at the time. While there are so many great indie bookstores across the country, there are amazing culinary bookstores. There wasn't one that really focused on black food in particular.
I remember there was one conversation we had in Herbert Von King Park, in Bed-Stuy. Okay, it's a now or never situation. We've been talking about it, let's go for it or let's not. Because we also have other things we're interested in and want to see how those unfold. And then I think, when we landed on the Black Food bookstore piece of it, I remember sitting on my stoop in the pandemic, and Danielle was like, "What if we did a black food bookstore?" And I was like, "That's brilliant. That makes perfect sense for all of the things that we care about and are interested in." And I think for what we're trying to accomplish in opening a business together. We didn't want to just open something that anybody could have done. We wanted it to be, I think, really unique to us and our relationship, and this felt like the best expression of that, because what we were talking about all the time is what we were cooking, reading, eating, et cetera. So, it just felt like a good expression of the two of us.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Danielle, how did you come up with the name BEM? What was the connection behind that, and why did you decide on Bed-Stuy?
Danielle Davenport:
I'm trying to remember what the journey was up to it. So, BEM comes from our grandmother's initials, actually now as I say this now I feel like I remember speaking of where the conversations take place, at a cafe, and making a list and brainstorming, and wanting it to have this idea of legacy. And so, it comes from our grandmother's initials, Bernice and Marjorie.
Gabrielle Davenport:
That is so cute.
Danielle Davenport:
So, we needed a vowel to tie it together. The A was taken here in Brooklyn, with our Dear Academy of Music.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes. If you have not heard of the Bam of Brooklyn. Yes.
Danielle Davenport:
So, we kept talking about, oh, it's nice, it's percussive for our musician in the family. Yeah, it was just like, oh, this feels right. We wanted it to-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It just clicked. Very nice.
Danielle Davenport:
BEM Books & More, because we knew at the beginning as we had been brainstorming what a shop might look like, there was a version of it where it was like, oh, maybe it would be home decor items or something like that. And so, the idea of the and more, and the fact that we would grow into what are all of the things that black food and literature, and culture and home, what might it include? And it felt like even from the very beginning, the answer was so much. Let's leave it open. Let's call it BEM Books & More, to see how it grows.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Gabrielle, when you were thinking about, we only want to focus on black books or books in the black diaspora, what were your learnings on the state of the publishing industry, particular as it pertains to black and African-Americans, particularly and especially in the food world too.
Gabrielle Davenport:
We are still learning. I will just start with that. It's been a fascinating journey, because almost all the conversations we've had with folks who currently work in publishing, we're asking a lot of questions, trying to figure out how all the stuff fits together, and the timelines and all of that. And almost all of them have been like, it is confusing. This is very obtuse on purpose. This is not just you, which has felt helpful to hear that, we're not missing something here. It is actually a bizarre setup, to say the least. But what has been interesting, I think we opened in January of 2021. George Floyd protests in 2020 created a lot of visibility for better or for worse, in a whole lot of very complicated ways. And so, we're coming into a moment where there's way more attention to black food writing, which it's not like the writing is new, it's been happening, folks have been doing this work for a very long time, but all of a sudden, at least from my perspective, publishers and editors, and so forth, are like, oh, wait a minute, we have to... And it's like-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Meet our quotas.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Right.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Exactly.
Gabrielle Davenport:
It's like, well, this should have been happening already. But I think because of the moment that we're coming into, it makes sense to folks outside of us that there be a black food bookstore in a way that it may not have a few years earlier. I think that the response might've been a little bit more like, okay, I have questions about that. Whereas now, there's just a lot more exposure, I think. And it's really important to us that we understand ourselves to be a part of the ecosystem that makes this wonderful work more accessible to more people who aren't necessarily writers or chefs, but are hobbyists, and like to eat, and want to know about more people who are cooking things that they're interested in, et cetera.
So I think, our position of matching readers and eaters to the folks doing all of this deeply research, deeply personal in a lot of cases, work, is really exciting to us. Again, we've been able to do a lot of that already online, but it feels like we're really going to get into it once we open our brick and mortar, which is very exciting, to be able to physically bring everyone into the same space. It's complicated to be in Vogue, and to have black food be... I hope it lasts. I hope it's not like a flavor of the month situation, but we don't know where this is going to go. But what we do know is that BEM and some other places also, are here hopefully for the long haul, to continue to platform all of this, because it's really important. And food in particular, is such a rich axis for how to understand culture and how people move, and why and all of that. There's literally endless conversation to be had, I think, around black food across the diaspora and what it does.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Danielle, when you think about curation, because you're not just selling the newest books from authors, you're also curating vintage books you're sourcing. What is your philosophy when it comes to curation and gathering, and creating a good selection for people to come to the store and get a chance to look at?
Danielle Davenport:
It's really exciting for us. We think mostly we're just casting a wide net and thinking about, okay, everything has to be black authored. That's the starting point, for sure. And then the question is, where and how does food show up? So, it's been so wonderful. I feel like I regret that I'm not able to get past page 30 or 40. I'm like power skimming, is there food in this book? And in some cases they are books that we know and love and are like, "Wait, let me reread that. Wait, does food show up? Because we really want to be able to carry this book." And sometimes it's right there in the title, and bulls you over, and is front and center.
So, it's just a really wonderful organic process of reading for food, just to see what shows up, and to try and keep on top of those Tuesday releases, just every week, we've got more. And then the spirit of looking forward and backward at the same time. And it's almost always you'll read something, it'll be a blurb on a new release or something and the author, and you're like, "Wait a minute, how do we not have them in the collection? Let me go back and double check." And then you see something, and then it reminds you of something else. So, it's very much this organic braided process of bringing all the pieces together and never being done, which is so wonderful and also daunting sometimes. It's always growing.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So, you guys just had your pop-up, because you were initially online for the first year, and then you had your pop-up in the summer over at BRIC Brooklyn. When you thought of curating the space space together, how do you think about working with the collections that you had, to not just educate but also create a sense of comfort for black and non-black consumers? I think you guys are very adamant and our books are by black authors, but they can be really for anyone who's interested.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Absolutely. Yeah, so that was our most recent pop-up, and since we opened, we've done pop-ups that range from six weeks to six months. Our first one was at Bed-Vyne, beloved Bed-Vyne in Bed-Stuy, which was awesome. But at BRIC in particular, it's always a fun dance a little bit, to bring what we think of as the BEM core collection, and to have the new releases as they come out. And it's always really responsive to the people that are coming in, which is... So, I'm trying to think of a good example. There were a couple of folks that worked at BRIC that would visit with us all the time, which is really beautiful. And they would make requests all the time, and we added some books to the collection from their suggestions. And we found, for example, that... And we are at an event, for example, with... A black food event in particular, we can't sell enough vegan cookbooks. They disappear immediately, which is fantastic, but there's a practice of hearing what people are interested in and looking for, and trying to put that in front of them.
It surprised me at the beginning when we first started having pop-ups, because people would come in and it looks like a bookstore. You can't necessarily tell, especially because we're showing up in different locations, so there's only so much sort of cosmetic-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The Traveling Roadshow.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Yeah, exactly.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
There's the Scholastic Book Fair.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Yes, very much so. We have all these visions for what the brick and mortar is going to look like, and none of the pop-ups have been all the way that thing. So walking in, you don't know that it's a black bookstore necessarily. And so, people come in and they just browse around, and eventually they're like, "What do you all do here?" It's like the theme starts to emerge and they're like, "Oh, there's something going on."
But your point about it really being for everyone is so true. Any person of any age could come in and find something that they're excited about. It could be something that they read in high school and want to reread. It could be a book by a chef they've never heard of, that their friend told them about this new dish and they want to try it. So, that's been really rich because we're lucky, I would say, across the board, most people are like, "This is so cool. I'm so glad to be here. I'm glad that this exists. I want to learn more. Add me to your mailing list." All of that, which is the best you can ask for as a new small business, particularly in Brooklyn in 2023, where there's a lot of places people could go, a lot of good stuff for folks to get into. So, whenever people choose to spend their time or hard-earned dollars with us, that's the whole point. We're happy to have them.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
But yeah, I'm curious to hear, how do you think about wanting to really live out your visions, but also understanding the elements of just building a business at a time like this?
Danielle Davenport:
Yes. The brick and mortar has always been front and center, and absolutely the dream and what we want to do, and we are working our way towards it. Things are evolving quickly. So, we really look forward to being able to have all of our books in one place with the test kitchen, with the cafe wine bar, with the archive for all of the gems that are out of print, but that we still want to be accessible to folks. And in terms of learning the business of it and figuring out how we get to that brick and mortar step, it's been such a learning curve and so exciting, and a lot of money to raise and conversations to have. And also clarity, as we've refined our business model and continue to, and have new opportunities in front of us, it really will be so wonderful and so helpful to have a single home base. Right now, our mailing address is at the mail room store. We go, we get the box, we'd pick it up... all over town.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You're like two apartments, all the things, many trains, many wagons.
Danielle Davenport:
So, it will be so wonderful just energetically, spiritually, in terms of the storytelling and the events, and the energy, all of that, but also just in very practical efficiencies and how do we best run this business? Having a space is just going to be everything.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
For sure.
Danielle Davenport:
So, we're marching toward that.
Gabrielle Davenport:
I would also say, I think there's so much attention toward supporting black founders, female founders, black female founders, and yet knowing how to actually get to those resources, or getting to them at the right time for your business. There's a lot to navigate there. And I think it's been an interesting exercise for me at least in terms of keeping the blinders on to stay focused and be like, we have this vision. We believe in it, other people believe in it. We can make it happen. And paying enough attention to the market to not be bullheaded. You know what I'm saying? It's a very specific position to be in, and I'm so sure that we'll land in the right place and continue to evolve as things change around us. But it is a fascinating time to do anything-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
For sure.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Like let's open a business.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What's your philosophy around being scrappy and working towards that dream, and how do you find support within your communities to make that happen?
Gabrielle Davenport:
I think our philosophy has been, we need to bring the books to the people where they are. Again, we opened in the pandemic online because we didn't want to just wait indefinitely. We had made a good amount of little momentum toward figuring out what this thing was going to be when the pandemic arrived, but that also set us on a path of running an e-commerce business, which is different from what we thought we were doing, to open an indie bookstore around the corner from our houses. Really different orientation.
And so, it became with that first holiday pop-up, at Bed-Vyne in particular, it was like, oh, when people can see us, they buy stuff and we have beautiful conversations, and it's so fun. And that's what we're really after. So, the strategy has very much been to be in person and tell folks where they can find us, and hope that they will come to us as they said that they would. Again, which is why we're so gung-ho about the brick and mortar. We are also revamping our website right now, which is very exciting, to make some of that e-commerce stuff that's already happening work a little bit better than it was before. But yeah, the scrappiness is absolutely necessary. I think we definitely underestimated, books are heavy. Cookbooks are particularly heavy. They're beautiful. They're beautiful-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
They're loaded with stuff.
Gabrielle Davenport:
... objects. They earn that weight, but it's a lot to move them around. So, in terms of calling on our community, our family is a huge support. And I would say that we've also, we've come into some really wonderful people who've worked with us, really our first staff member, dear Brittany, who keeps the whole thing moving, which is incredible. So, I would say that we've gotten lucky with some of our hires, and just helping us bring this all to life, and keep making systems that make it a little easier.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You are both sisters, you're working on this together. Family is both beautiful. And when we've known someone for a very long time, it can be either very easy or very difficult to work with them. What has your relationship been like, and how do you bring both of your experiences and elements into creating BEM?
Danielle Davenport:
It's a very different thing to go from being just sisters to being sisters and business partners. So, it's been a huge learning curve in all kinds of things that we have... I feel like there are aspects of each other's personalities that we've watched other people experience in a different way, and now we are experiencing them ourselves as we work through certain kinds of things. So, there's been so much that's been dynamic, and wild, and wonderful. And it feels like a family business is such a beautiful thing, and it's just been super dynamic and exciting.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Yeah, it is hard. It's beautiful and very challenging. We were really close before we started this, and I think partially because of our age gap, we never fought. It just didn't make any sense. We didn't have any of that sibling rivalry type stuff. Yeah, it's been a huge adventure, but I think at the core of BEM is stuff that we care deeply about, and I think have shaped each other's feelings and understandings of in really inextricable ways. And so I think, that will always... I hope, will always be felt as the core of why BEM exists, because it really was built as an extension, I would say, even of our family and of our relationship. I both can't imagine starting a business as a solo founder, and I can't really imagine doing this with anyone but Danielle. So it's like, here we are. Moving forward and hoping to continue to find what BEM is outside of the two of us, which is important too.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, because I think especially being a founder, so much of your business exists in your mind. And once it gets out into the world, it's like you can never control how people perceive it or feel about it-
Gabrielle Davenport:
Not at all.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
... especially when you bring on staff and people like that. But it's really beautiful to see... And you can even feel it in your work, the types of books that you have, the types of events you're doing, that there's a deep familial connection, and especially for the diaspora family is everything. We come from oral cultures where things were passed down from Grandma said this. We're like, "Oh, how do you measure that?" It's based on feeling, so.
Danielle Davenport:
Yes, and it's such a thing. We all know within our communities it's, yes, you have blood relatives, but your kin, your play cousins, family is such a powerful and flexible thing in a way.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Exactly.
Danielle Davenport:
It's so important to us that BEM feel like home. So, whether you're a food person or a book person, or... It's that idea of creating a home space of holding space, coming from a place of love, even as we can ask complicated questions about how different parts of the diasporic community fit together, and things that we can dig into, and what we all share and what's really different. Coming toward all of those questions about food and books, and our world, and the changes in it from a place of love and curiosity, feels like it's such an important part of what BEM is, and that has so much to do, I think, with our relationship.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What are things that you love cooking together when you're having non-work meetings, but sister hangs, And you're also neighbors.
Danielle Davenport:
That hasn't happened in so long.
Gabrielle Davenport:
I know.
Danielle Davenport:
I feel like there's so much less cooking happening these days, sadly.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Cooking of the brains, the ideas. Putting the dream. Exactly.
Danielle Davenport:
I think so often when we come together around food these days, unless it is quick over a meeting or something, it's with our broader family and the moms and the aunts and the cousins, and we all get together. And I feel like in most of those cases, we defer to the elders, and help around the edges. So yeah, I feel like it's been a while since... I can't even remember.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I always like to ask this question when I go into a bookstore. So, since I'm sitting here with two bookstore owners, what are you currently reading, and what is a book that you would like to read?
Danielle Davenport:
“Family Lore,” Elizabeth Acevedo's newest. And just speaking of all of our family stories, it is a group of sisters and the aunts before, and food shows up in it in such incredible ways. And yeah, it's just really beautiful story.
Gabrielle Davenport:
What am I reading? I have been reading “The Shadow King” by Maaza Mengiste, for a very long time. Honestly, it's really beautifully written. The book is really brilliant. It's about the Italian invasion of Ethiopia, so it's very intense. I only read a little bit of it at a time, but it's beautiful. And I've been reading Pleasure Activism in fits and starts by Adrienne Maree Brown as well. One I'm really looking forward to getting into is “Sing a Black Girl Song” by Ntozake Shange, which excavate... Imani Perry edited it and it excavates her papers, which are held at Barnard, because Shange also went to Barnard. So, I am excited to get into that. And I wish I could read all the books that are coming out, that we're trying to feature, but maybe eventually.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How does food show up on any of the books that you mentioned, will they be at them?
Gabrielle Davenport:
Oh, absolutely. All of them. We carry all of them. They're great examples actually of the ways that food literature is expansive. If there's a scene in a kitchen... In “The Shadow King,” for example, one of the key secondary characters, if you will, is a chef. She doesn't have a name beyond the chef. There's a lot to get into with that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
No spoilers.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Yes, I know. Sorry. I haven't even finished it, so I can't even deliver new spoilers. But yes, all three of them we absolutely carry because they talk about how food works for black folks, which is what we do.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Danielle, Gabrielle, we are going to do our Future Flash Five, the future of indie bookstores?
Danielle Davenport:
Thrilling.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Big.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future for black cookbooks?
Danielle Davenport:
Amazing.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Self-determined.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future for community events?
Danielle Davenport:
Connected.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Rich.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future for publishing?
Danielle Davenport:
Dynamic.
Gabrielle Davenport:
More black led.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And finally, the future of family projects?
Danielle Davenport:
Yummy.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Yeah, warm.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Gabrielle and Danielle, thank you both so much for joining us. Where are the best places to find you if you want to keep supporting you?
Danielle Davenport:
Thank you so much, and you can definitely find us, you can shop our amazing collection online at BEM, B-E-M, brooklyn.com, and sign up for our mailing list, and of course, follow us on Instagram @bembrooklyn.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Yes. Thank you. We're such fans of Cherry Bombe, and we're glad to be here. Thank you so much, Abena.
Danielle Davenport:
Thank you. This was really wonderful.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, thank you so much. This was so fun. Before we go, our guest is going to leave a voicemail at the Future of Food Mailbox, just talking to themselves 10 years from now. You have reached the Future of Food Is You mailbox. Please leave your message after the beep.
Danielle Davenport:
Hey, future self. I'm so curious what the world around you looks like. Whatever surrounds, I hope that you and Gabrielle have built BEM into a vibrant, bustling, vital home for all things black and culinary and literary. Are you planning the 10th anniversary party season celebration in the space of all the ingenuity, care, and collaboration that the BEM community generates? I hope it's glorious. And I hope that your life is full of love and creative energy, telling stories and supporting storytellers, cooking and hosting more, traveling more, resting more, and at peace. Hoping the journey's been delicious, me.
Gabrielle Davenport:
Dear 2033 self, look at what you all built. This beautiful, multifaceted community institution for black food books, is strong because of its people. It'll live on for decades to come too. BEM has led you on some fabulous adventures in New York, across the country and abroad. You've expanded the offerings. You're publishing now, and you've learned so much through trial and error. Keep trusting in your team you've built with an amazing group of dreamers who care deeply about black people, books, and food. I'm so proud of you, and I'm so proud of them. Keep reading and keep cooking. The eating is a given.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's it for today's show. Do you know someone who you think is the future of food? Tell us about them. Nominate them at the link in our show notes, or leave us a rating and a review, and tell me about them in the review. I can't wait to read more about them. Thanks to Kerrygold for sponsoring our show. The Future of Food is You is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Thanks to the team at CityBox Studios, executive producers, Kerry Diamond and Catherine Baker, and associate producer, Jenna Sadhu. Catch you on the future flip.