Gemma Stafford Transcript
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi, peeps. You are listening to She's My Cherry Pie, the baking podcast from the Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Jessie Sheehan. I'm a baker, recipe developer, and author of three baking books, including my latest, Snackable Bakes. Each Saturday, I'm hanging out with the sweetest bakers around and taking a deep dive into their signature bakes.
Today's guest is Gemma Stafford, the Irish chef, baker, and host, buying the hit YouTube show, Bigger Bolder Baking. She's also the author of two baking books, “Bigger Bolder Baking: A Fearless Approach to Baking Anytime, Anywhere,” and “Bigger Bolder Baking Every Day: Easy Recipes to Bake Through A Busy Week.” Gemma is a classically trained chef who also studied under the legendary Darina Allen at Ballymaloe Cookery School in County Cork, Ireland. She now lives in Los Angeles with her family and loves helping folks bake with confidence with her trusted recipes and techniques. She's been featured on baking shows like “Nailed It” on Netflix and “Best Baker” in America on Food Network. She's launching her own network later this year called The Bigger Bolder Baking Network. Gemma joins me to talk about her best ever Irish scones. We chat about textures, key ingredients, and how Gemma gets her slightly sweet, crunchy exterior, and moist interior. With St. Patrick's Day coming up, you don't want to miss this convo.
Thank you to Plugra Premium European Style Butter for supporting today's show. As some of you know, I've been a big fan of Plugra for some time now and was introduced to it at my very first bakery job when I was just a newbie baker. Fast forward to today, I'm a professional baker cookbook author and recipe developer. And I continue to rely on Plugra for all my baking needs. My fridge is always stocked with Plugra sticks and solids. I especially love that Plugra contains 82% butter fat. The higher butter fat content means less moisture and more fat. And as bakers know, fat equals flavor. Plugra butter is also slow churned, making it more pliable and easy to work with. I do a lot of baking this time of year for work and for myself and my family, comfy bakes like my pistachio chocolate anytime buns and cinnamon sugar buttermilk doughnut holes. And I always reach for Plugra unsalted butter. I've also been making a lot of yeasted breads lately. And I love the buttery flavor Plugra adds to my dough. Plugra Premium European Style Butter is the perfect choice from professional kitchens to your home kitchen. Ask for Plugra at your favorite grocery store or visit plugra.com for a store locator and recipes. Let's check in with today's guest.
Gemma, so excited to have you on She's My Cherry Pie, and to talk scones with you, and so much more.
Gemma Stafford:
It's my honor. Thank you so much for having me.
Jessie Sheehan:
First things first, I've read that it was really your mom who showed you how to cook. She made everything from scratch every day for her family of seven, taught you to make scones, which we're going to talk about shortly. And what I love is that you've said that she baked scones on any day of the week. They were not reserved for weekends.
And that most importantly, and I love this so much, you guys ate dessert every night of the week. It was not a special occasion thing, which is exactly how I was raised. And I was wondering if you could talk about that. And what were the kinds of sweets and other baked goods that you, guys, were all eating on the regular?
Gemma Stafford:
It's funny. We did have desserts often during the week. And it wasn't just kept to the weekends and special occasions. I have shared some of those recipes in both of my books. And I will tell you the kind of baked goods in Ireland. Number, one, it's comfort food. A lot of the recipes are for cold evenings. And that's when I think about those times is when I was younger, in Ireland, in the winter, and we were having rice pudding.
We were having something called an Eve's pudding, which is Victoria sponge on top of some Bramley apples, what we use for stewing apples, apple crumbles like you would not believe. Different types of crumbles and things like that, but definitely stuff that can be made from ingredients that you have to hand, something that's quick to whip up, and easy, and no fuss. And that really is what Irish cooking is all about. It's both savory and sweet.
It's like what we're all about. It's easy, simple recipes where you get lovely results. When it comes to me, people ask, "What do you like to make for yourself?" We have a lot of cakes and desserts in our house, Jessie, from our shoots, from our filming, and all those things, but when I say to Kevin, my husband, "Let's make a dessert," I always go for a crisp or a crumble or something like rice pudding. And those are the kind of things I gravitate towards because that's what I grew up on and those lovely food memories.
Jessie Sheehan:
So, you've studied cooking at the Dublin Institute of Technology, and then continued your studies under Darina Allen at Ballymaloe. First of all, did you always know that you would go to cooking school? And then also, can you tell those listeners that don't know about Ballymaloe?
Gemma Stafford:
I did always know that I was going to be a chef because of my mom and because it was the only thing I gravitated towards, Jessie, which was like, "This is what I want to do." I told my mom, at a very young age, I either wanted to be a chef or a teacher. So, when it came to filling out my college application when I was 17, my mom sat down with me.
And we picked from, like you said, the Dublin Institute of Technology, which has one of the biggest catering colleges in the country. I picked everything from hotel and catering hospitality to supervision, professional cookery, which is what I ended up studying, and culinary arts, so everything in the food realm. So, I ended up studying professional cookery, which meant training to be a chef. Ballymaloe is run by Darina Allen.
And Darina Allen, in the '80s, she appeared on TV in Ireland. And I was born in '83. So, I grew up with her on telly. My mom said to me when I was a young girl, she said, "When you grow up you can go to Ballymaloe," which was just to be able to go to study at Ballymaloe was a dream come true. So, I went and I studied at college. Mom said, "If you go to college and you graduate, then if you still want to go to Ballymaloe, you can." So, I did that.
After graduating college, I went down to Ballymaloe. And I did Darina's longest course, which is a three-month certificate course. During this time, you're staying on the property. You're down on this lovely... I'll paint a picture for everybody. It's a self-sufficient organic farm down in East Cork in a place called Shanagarry. It has almost like its own ecosystem. They have their own cows. And this is, now, there could be even more, but they have their own bees.
They have their own cattle. They have their own dairy. It's really unbelievable. They have all their own chickens. All their eggs come from their own chickens. They make their own bread. It's just really an amazing cooking school. It's whimsical and just very a dreamy place, but it's such a gorgeous part of the country where it's just a lot of countryside. You're really out there, outside a big city, but you're living on a farm.
While you're doing the course, you're staying on the property or close by in a little fishing village, which is just gorgeous. You go in early in the morning. And you're there all day long. And you do in-the-kitchen practical. And then in the afternoon, you often go in, and you sit. And Darina, or Rachel Allen, or Rory O'Connell, or somebody, one of the teachers, does a demo.
You'll see this is what you're going to be doing the next day. Then you go into the kitchen the next morning. And you recreate. And you work in teams, or sometimes, I think you work individually. It's just three months of intensive cooking. And I say intensive because it's all day, every day, Monday to Friday, but it's not intensive in the true meaning of the word. For me, I just couldn't get enough.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. And then at some point, you moved to the U.S.
Gemma Stafford:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
And you had some restaurant jobs in some Michelin-star restaurants, and you worked in some bakeries. What I want to hear about, actually, is the catering business that you've started where you specialized in over-the-top breakfast creations for tech companies. That sounds like heaven to me. And I want to hear about those over-the-top breakfast creations and also how that came to be your catering company's specialty.
Gemma Stafford:
This is such a funny part of my life. I was working in a Michelin-star restaurant, which I loved, in San Francisco by myself. I went there not knowing anybody. As they'd say in Ireland, not knowing a sinner. I went on Craigslist, which was what you did back then if you worked in the food world, looking for a job. And I found one at this restaurant. And I had a great time. I was earning such little money that I couldn't afford to work here anymore.
I could barely afford to pay my rent. I rented a tiny room in Hayes Valley in San Francisco. Ireland was going through a recession at the time, 2009. So, it hit Ireland a little bit later than America. And I had a moment where I was like, "I have no safety net. I'm here in a city by myself. I don't have any family. I have friends that I work with. I have no safety net of money. All I have is my paycheck every two weeks. And that's all I have to survive on.
I don't think I can afford to work in this restaurant anymore." So, I went in and I asked my boss for a raise. He offered me 25 cents extra an hour. I said, "I can't do that." He said, "Okay. I'll offer you 50 cents an hour." And I walked out that day. And I said, "No. I'm earning right now at 26 years of age less money than I did when I was 19." So, I went in a week later, and I quit because there's a saying, you can't fall off the ground. And that's where I was.
I felt like I was on the ground. It couldn't get any worse. I quit. I went on Craigslist again. And I found a job, somebody looking for a tech company looking to cater for breakfast. I went in, and I made some breakfast for them. And from that one opportunity, I created my catering business from that, which was I got into the door of this one tech company. And I started to bring on more clients after that. I will tell you, I had no money starting up the business.
I have no business background at all. One thing about me is that I'm very determined. I wasn't going to give up. And I wasn't going to be beaten. So, I worked incredibly hard. And I was seeing that there was a lot more money coming back into Silicon Valley and into tech companies. And my job with this first initial company was, they said to me, they hired out engineers to other companies.
They said to us, "Listen. We have an office full of..." at that time, it was around 50, 60 engineers. "There's businesses coming into work with these guys, but they're 22 years of age. They're 25 years of age. And they're up all night playing computer games. And then they've stroll in here at 11:00 in the morning. Your job is to get them in here before 9:00 because there's people waiting for them. And they're being billed for these guys."
So, I was like, "Okay. I'll see what I can do." He's like, "This is all you have to do. Just get them in the door." And then one Friday, they came into work. And they strolled in late. It was after 9:00, but they slowly started to stroll in. And I had made red velvet pancakes with cream cheese frosting and a butter pecan glaze.
And they almost lost their minds because what they'd been used to was cartons of scrambled eggs, bacon that had already been pre-cooked, and fruit salad that was already pre-chopped that the caterer had bought from somewhere. And that's just not me. I'm a professional chef with too much experience to do that. So, that was the beginning. The red velvet pancakes was the beginning of it.
And this was years ago, Jessie, when these recipes weren't even on Pinterest. Now, you look at them up. And you see like, oh, everybody has a cinnamon roll pancake. And I made these, I don't know, gosh, a long, long time ago. The breakfast became more elaborate, more over the top, and just more unique. And that's what it's like. If somebody's going to hire me to do something, I really have to bring to the table what no other chef is going to do.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that.
Gemma Stafford:
And that was the beginning of that.
Jessie Sheehan:
When you left catering and moved over to your website and made that a full-time job, were you already doing both at the same time, catering but also blogging, or did you literally quit and then start Bigger Bolder Baking?
Gemma Stafford:
I quit, and I started Bigger Bolder Baking. The thing about my catering business was I loved it. Within the first few months of leaving my job at the restaurant and starting catering, I had quadrupled my salary. The thing about it was I was getting up early. I was still in the office at 6:30 in the morning. And my days were shorter, but I was still doing the grind of in the kitchen early in the morning and going home and prepping and all the stuff.
My fridge in my apartment in Hayes Valley in San Francisco was full of fruit and all the things. And I was just a little bit tired of it. And I had these feelings. My husband, who came from an entertainment background, who worked at Lucasfilm, Pixar, and then also in gaming companies, did LucasArts, and Zynga, and EA games, what he's most passionate about is entertainment and media.
He came up with the idea. He was like, "I want to produce something. And I want you to host it." And I was like, "Well, the only thing I know how to do is bake. So, I hope you wanted to produce something about baking." And he said, "Yeah, I want to produce a baking show." And we just celebrated. This was 10 years ago because we just celebrated our 10th anniversary of Bigger Bolder Baking. Over 10 years ago, we had this conversation.
And we were tired. We were tired of working for other people. We wanted to take control of our own destinies. And we felt like we were experts in our space. So, why not combine our two passions and go and create something together? So, I did. I closed my catering business. Kevin quit his job. There was moments of like, "What did we do? This is the craziest thing." We never didn't believe we weren't going to make it work, if that makes sense. We knew-
Jessie Sheehan:
Well-
Gemma Stafford:
... we would make it work.
Jessie Sheehan:
... you have made it work to the tune of 2.75 million subscribers on YouTube, which is incredible. You have the blog. You have two cookbooks. I cannot believe how ahead of the curve Kevin was. It is-
Gemma Stafford:
I know, right?
Jessie Sheehan:
... so hard. Kevin, I’ve got to meet this guy.
Gemma Stafford:
You, too.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's amazing because now, YouTube is impossible to break into, or at least what I've been told, if any of us have YouTube fantasies, it's so hard to break into it. And I think that the fact that you, guys, were doing that so long ago, where it was exciting and new and fresh and, oh, my gosh, who's this fabulous Irish baker making these fabulous, easy recipes for me? I'm not surprised you cracked the code, but I'm really impressed. Would you say that dessert style has stayed the same since your catering days, or really fell into place or took form with the YouTube channel?
Gemma Stafford:
That's a great question. I think my style would be quite similar to your style. I come from a professional background. And I know what it's like to make complicated recipes. That was never ever my style. I worked in many fine-dining kitchens. It was never my style. What I did with Bigger Bolder Baking was, over the years, I always started out doing over-the-top recipes.
And then over time, especially as I got older... When I started Bigger Bolder Baking, I was 31. Now, I'm 41. And after writing two books also, I like simple ingredients, stuff that you will have in your pantry. And my pantry is bare bones. I have brown sugar and granulated sugar like the rest of us. I do not have a whole pile of funny ingredients. And if the ingredients aren't in my pantry, they're not going to be in yours.
So, there's very few recipes on my site that will require special ingredients, special equipment. Really, my style is simple ingredients, simple technique, and I know you agree with me here, just tell me what I need to know. Don't give me the fluffy stuff. Just tell me what I need to know. And that's in baking. And that's just me in life in general. Tell me what I need to know in the recipe. And then I'll go do that. And that's what we do in ours.
We keep the recipes to around, and in the books also, 10 steps, just what you need to know. Anything else can be confusing, especially if you're a novice baker. And I don't know if you remember this, Jessie, but as a novice baker, it's like, I don't want to confuse people with information. They're like, "Wait a second. Now, you said this, but then you said that. So, which one is it that I do?"
So, over the years, especially after answering, we've answered over a million comments across all social media, I know where people can fall down in recipes. I know where they might struggle. So, I am like an editing ninja when it comes to editing our recipes. And I worked with editors over the year about editing the recipes. And I've just gone back to doing it myself because I just want it to be exactly what that person needs and as simple as possible, but for you to get the exact same results that I did.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. Yeah, no, I can very much appreciate that. I love all my recipes to be on a single page of my books. And then next to that is a photograph. I get very unhappy if some of the text has to go over to the other page. I'm like, "I've said too much." I'm dying to get into our scone recipe, but I just wanted to briefly have you tell us about the first ever baking network that you're launching, The Bold Baking Network.
Gemma Stafford:
So, The Bold Baking Network. Can you believe, Jessie, that there's not a baking network out there? With all of the food content over the years on TV and on streaming, there's not a baking network out there. Kevin and I have been talking about this for years, probably six years now. Kevin said to me many years ago, "I want to create a baking network."
And back then, a little bit like YouTube, I didn't know what he was talking about, but now, with all the fast channels, free ad-supported streaming TV, and the Roku's, and the Samsung's, and LG of the world, there's not baking-focused channels.
And that's what Kevin and I are creating with our content with other bakers who have different expertise than I have because I am not an expert at everything that come from different cultural backgrounds. There's such a rich tapestry when it comes to baking. It's like, how can we bring all of those people together in one place that will air all around the world? So, that's what we're working on right now. And we're hoping for it to launch early Q2.
Jessie Sheehan:
We'll be right back. Today's episode is presented by California Prunes, the best kind of prunes out there. I'm a big fan of California prunes for two reasons. They're a great addition to your pantry when it comes to smart snacking and baking. California Prunes are good for your gut, your heart, and even your bones. They contain dietary fiber and other nutrients to support good gut health, and vitamin K, copper, and antioxidants to support healthy bones. I've started making myself a daily smoothie, which is a great vehicle for incorporating healthy foods into your diet. One of my favorite combinations right now is blueberries and kale with some prunes added for natural sweetness and depth of flavor. When it comes to baking, you can use California Prune puree to replace some of the sugar, eggs, or fat in a recipe. It's super easy to whip up. Just blend prunes and water together. And voila. You can also add California Prunes to any treat that calls for dried fruit, like bread, scones, cakes, and cookies. Prunes pair well with ingredients like chocolate, caramel, honey, coffee, even chilies. They also add sweetness and depth to savory recipes like chicken marbella, sauces, or stews. For recipe ideas and more, be sure to check out the California Prunes website at californiaprunes.org. Happy baking. And happy snacking.
I've got great news listeners. Jubilee 2024 is taking place Saturday, April 20th, at Center 415 in Manhattan. And tickets are on sale now. Jubilee is the largest gathering of women and culinary creatives in the food and drink space in the U.S. It's a beautiful day of conversation and connection. And I hope to see you there. You can learn more and snag tickets at cherrybombe.com. Now, back to our guest.
Now, we get to talk about scones. These are your best-evers. They are a tried and true classic scone, which you describe as having a crunchy, crackly, slightly sweet exterior, and then a moist and dense interior with a lightly sweet flavor. Now, why are Irish scones the best? And does it have something to do with the fact that you keep them round and we, in the United States, seem to want to turn them into triangles?
Gemma Stafford:
The triangle things, I just don't get it. I need someone to explain that to me because when I came here 17 years ago, people were like, "Would you like a scone?" I was like, "I would, but that's not a scone." And why is there icing on it? I don't get it. They are so different. In every cafe and bakery across the country in Ireland, there's going to be freshly made scones every single day. It's like when you go to New York, and you go to get bagels.
You're going to get freshly baked bagels. You're not going to get day old bagels. Every single day, scones are made. People have them for breakfast. They'll have them for what they call elevenses, which is when you have that in between lunch and breakfast. And then they will have them for lunch or for afternoon tea. We eat them all day long. It is a big part of our lifestyle because we're a nation of tea drinkers. We love to sit down and have a chat.
And we will often do that with a cup of coffee, a cup of tea, and a scone. So, Irish scones, like I said, when you go anywhere in the country, you're going to get them freshly made. They're lovely and light. They should be crispy on the outside. They should not be dry. And unfortunately, that's what a lot of people experience here in the U.S.
And here's the one thing, Jessie, I don't know how you eat your scones, but often, I find here, the intention is not to put butter on it, but in Ireland, you would always, you cut it open, and you put butter. And if you don't do butter, you can do jam or whatever, but you're not going to eat it dry.
Nobody eats them dry. You do butter or butter and jam, jam and cream, whatever, but you would never just eat it as it is. And the whole ritual of it is to open it up, put butter on, and have the whole thing, which makes it a whole different experience.
Jessie Sheehan:
So, first things first, we're going to take a large mixing bowl. Do you like a glass bowl? Do you like a metal bowl?
Gemma Stafford:
I do a lot of glass bowls. I do have to say a lot of baking that my mom did when I was growing up was Mason Cash bowl-
Jessie Sheehan:
Lovely.
Gemma Stafford:
... those lovely, big heavy bowls.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love those. So, in a large mixing bowl, we're going to add some self-raising flour. We call it self-rising, but I think it's exactly the same thing, but is there any difference between an Irish self-raising and an American self-rising? Is yours maybe softer than ours? And ours has maybe salt and yours doesn't?
Gemma Stafford:
Yours has salt.
Jessie Sheehan:
Ours has salt and yours doesn't.
Gemma Stafford:
Yeah, exactly. And I didn't realize that until I tasted it a little while later. And I looked it up. And I was like, "Something's not right here." But it does. It has salt. And a lot of people don't know that. I didn't know it until I move to the US, but often, it's not a huge amount of salt that's going to make your baked goods too salty. And we can get into that when we talk about salt and everything.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay.
Gemma Stafford:
But I think that's, as far as I know, just the difference. I think they do give you the same tender results.
Jessie Sheehan:
And is self-raising or self-rising flour traditional in all Irish scones, or it's just the way your mom made them and the way you like to make them?
Gemma Stafford:
It could be both. Self-raising flour or a flour that we call cream flour. There's a brand in Ireland called Odlums. And these guys would make a cream flour that's more akin to between a cake flour and a all-purpose flour.
Jessie Sheehan:Okay.
Gemma Stafford:
So, I don't want to confuse matters. So, you're talking all-purpose or self-raising.
Jessie Sheehan:
And I love that you let us know that if you want to make your own self-rising or self-raising, it's one cup of all-purpose plus two teaspoons of baking powder, and then you sift that together. I love using self-rising flour. I won't lie. And I do try to find different places to use it, but why do you think it is better than just adding the leavening and the salt yourself?
Gemma Stafford:
I've done it both ways. So, I don't know if I would say one was better than the other. I just love the results of this recipe. Do you know what I mean?
Jessie Sheehan:
I do.
Gemma Stafford:
I've done it both ways. I do find sometimes you get a bit of a better lift with the self-raising flour.
Jessie Sheehan:
I also read that although you didn't necessarily do this in your last cookbook, you also like to use cake flour sometimes in scones. And I loved reading that because I like to do that with my biscuits. I like to use some all-purpose and some cake. And biscuit dough is similar to a scone dough. So, I appreciated that. And it adds a tenderness-
Gemma Stafford:
It absolutely does.
Jessie Sheehan:
... I find.
Gemma Stafford:
We did tests on it one day in my house because that's the kind of weird stuff that we do. And it really does gives you a more tender crumb for sure.
Jessie Sheehan:
So, now, we're going to use a cheese grater to grate frozen salted butter. And we're going to use the largest holes on the grater. Is there a particular brand of grater that you like, or just a sturdy one does the trick?
Gemma Stafford:
A sturdy one does the trick. I have an OXO one. And I have to say, and I love OXO tools. So, that's the one that I have in my house.
Jessie Sheehan:
Me, too. Very sturdy. We're going to grate the frozen butter on the cheese grater. And I love that you call for salted butter because that's a little bit unusual. Tell us why you love salted butter in your baking.
Gemma Stafford:
I do personally love salted butter in my baking. A lot of people ask me, "Will it end up too salty?" And I know salt varies in butter. Well, people are like, "Well, I don't know. I can't be sure of what results I'm going to get." I use salted butter in everything, in all of my baking. I just do. I've never experienced, or I've never had somebody else say to me it was too salty. Now, factoring in that, if you're in America, there will be a little bit of salt in your flour also, but I've still never had an issue.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that because I think there is such a discussion that you hear all the time between people who bake and pastry chefs and the salted versus unsalted. And I think for so long, the word on the street was, "Oh, gosh, it has to be unsalted. You need to control your salt level."
But I agree with you. I'm not sure that's true. I had my friend, Samantha Seneviratne, on the show because she had a cookbook that came out this past fall. And she always use a salted butter. She tells people they can use unsalted because you don't want to upset anyone, but if she's baking at home, that's what she has. So, I really appreciate that.
Gemma Stafford:
People always ask me. I do say it's preference. That's my preference. If that's not your preference, then do it your way. If you have to restrict salt in your diet, that's grand. But salt is flavor. Salt is not adding saltiness to whatever. It's enhancing the vanilla. It's enhancing the chocolate and all your other ingredients.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Gemma Stafford:
So, it's really important in your baking in general.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. It's a seasoning, not-
Gemma Stafford:
It is.
Jessie Sheehan:
... like as you said-
Gemma Stafford:
It's a seasoning.
Jessie Sheehan:
... not a salting.
Gemma Stafford:
Absolutely.
Jessie Sheehan:
Now, if you don't have a grater, you can use a pastry cutter. Do you like a OXO pastry cutter? Do you have a specific brand of pastry cutter?
Gemma Stafford:
Yes. Get a good pastry cutter because I've had a few break on me. OXO one is good. And I do like to use a pastry blender, but also, originally, in Ireland, you're talking about using your fingers if your butter is not frozen.
Jessie Sheehan:
So, we're going to use a pastry cutter if we don't have the grater. We're going to cut or rub the butter into the flour until fully crumbled and resembles coarse breadcrumbs. And I know the reason, but just if you can explain why frozen butter is important here rather than, well, definitely not room temperature, but why it's even better than what we usually see in a recipe, which would be cold butter.
Gemma Stafford:
So, it's even better because a little bit like with pastry making and also biscuit making, like you mentioned there, scones are very similar. So, we want to keep everything as cold as possible. Using frozen butter means that it will go into your dough cold. Once it's grated, it starts to defrost. But what we're trying to do is get our scones made and whipped up as quickly as possible to not put our hands in there too much.
So, by grating it, it means you're not putting in your hands, you're not warming up butter, you're not making the dough greasy, and you're going to be able to easily combine it and get it into the oven. Once a cold dough goes into the oven and the butter hits the hot oven, it will start to create steam. That steam will create layers in your baked goods. And it will start to evaporate. So, cold butter is super important in scones, in pie crusts, in biscuits to give you a lovely lift and to give you a little bit of flakiness.
Jessie Sheehan:
So, we're going to stir in some granulated sugar, some baking powder. So, we're adding additional baking powder, even though there's a little bit of leavening in our flour, and then some raisins, which is very traditional. I think you've said that you don't want to have a scone unless there's some raisins. Raisins are important to you.
Gemma Stafford:
Me, personally, there's a cafe near my house in Wexford called Kelly's Cafe. And when we don't get there by 11:30, the raisin scones are gone. And I know this is a very sad story. And when they say to me, "There's only plain scones," it's like, no, you're literally offering me nothing. I need a raisin scone. I'll be back here tomorrow.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. So, in a small mixing bowl, we're going to whisk together. And do you have a favorite type of whisk? Is it OXO again? Is it something else?
Gemma Stafford:
I do have an OXO, actually, funny enough, but it's a little bit of anything because I'm so well-stocked in my kitchen. We have Amazon basics. We have a little bit of everything.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, of course. So, in a small mixing bowl, we're going to whisk together some eggs. And are eggs traditional in scones?
Gemma Stafford:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Gemma Stafford:
In Irish scones, yes. Not as much in British scones-
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay.
Gemma Stafford:
... but definitely in Irish scones.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay. So, we're going to whisk some eggs and some milk. And you can substitute buttermilk, yes, for the whole milk if you'd like.
Gemma Stafford:
You can. You don't need to, Jessie-
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay.
Gemma Stafford:
... because you don't need an acid in this to react with the baking powder. If we were doing a scone with baking soda, then you would need that acid.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Gemma Stafford:
We just need liquid. So, we do full fat milk. And you can also, which is more expensive, you don't always have it, but you can also do cream. And that gives you great results, too.
Jessie Sheehan:
I have to say, one of my favorite kinds of scones is a cream scone, where you don't even add butter at all, and all your fat comes. I love it, and you can relate to this, because it's so incredibly easy, but then it's also so incredibly tasty. So, I love it.
Gemma Stafford:
They are delicious.
Jessie Sheehan:
And I use cream with abandon. I know people are like, "Oh, my God, so much fat. That's so extra." And I'm like, "Yes, exactly."
Gemma Stafford:
That's why we're doing it.
Jessie Sheehan:
So, we're going to pour our egg and milk mixture into our flour mixture. And we're going to stir maybe with a flexible spatula. And is there a brand of spatula that you love, or is it again a wide variety?
Gemma Stafford:
A wide variety. I also often, honestly, for this step, I use a fork also.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, nice.
Gemma Stafford:
I'm a diva for fork.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that.
Gemma Stafford:
I'm always using a fork to pull together biscuits and pastry doughs.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. So, we're going to stir together maybe with a fork until a soft dough forms. And we're going to add a little bit more liquid, maybe a splash of milk if we need it, to just help bring all those floury bits together. Then we're going to transfer the dough to a floured work surface. And are we flouring our work surface with additional self-rising or just all purpose, or does it not matter?
Gemma Stafford:
Just all-purpose-
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay.
Gemma Stafford:
... your little flour shaker. Just for any flouring surfaces, I always do all-purpose.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay. And then we're going to press the dough into a one-inch thick. Is it a round at this point-
Gemma Stafford:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
... or a rectangle? A round.
Gemma Stafford:
Your dough is a round. Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then we're going to cut the scone with round three-inch cookie cutters. And now, we're going to gather any of the scraps, re-flatten them, and cut more scones. We're going to place the scones onto a baking sheet. Brand of baking sheet that you love? You like something sturdy?
Gemma Stafford:
Nordicware. I do like something sturdy. I like Nordicware. I like heaviness in my pans and just something that's going to last me a long time because we get so much use out of them.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, of course. And now, we're going to line the pan with parchment paper, brush the scones with egg wash. And I wondered if you have a egg wash technique. Do you like to add a little salt, a little milk, or what's your egg wash-
Gemma Stafford:
Oh.
Jessie Sheehan:
... made of?
Gemma Stafford:
I'd never heard anybody add salt. Do you do that?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. I learned about it from a pastry chef here in New York. The salt breaks down the white so that the white and the yolk-
Gemma Stafford:
No way.
Jessie Sheehan:
... can be emulsified and come together a little bit-
Gemma Stafford:
Well wash.
Jessie Sheehan:
... more easily. And it's delicious because you're also-
Gemma Stafford:
That's interesting.
Jessie Sheehan:
... like we were talking about, adding a little bit of seasoning.
Gemma Stafford:
Okay. I won't bore you with the details now, but I don't add an egg white because it doesn't break down, and you end up with lumps.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Gemma Stafford:
So, maybe I can do a whole egg and add salt and whatever-
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Gemma Stafford:
... but I do egg yolk, and I do a little bit of milk or cream. This is what my mom did. The jug that you had your milk and your egg in, after I've cut out all my scones, I go in with my hand, not even a pastry brush, and I go into that jug, and I brush the tops with my fingers. That's what my mom did.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's so smart.
Gemma Stafford:
One of my pet peeves is washing pastry brushes. So, that eliminates that need.
Jessie Sheehan:
I always say bench scrapers are my favorite tool in the kitchen, but really, my hands are my favorite. It's a cliché, but they're extremely useful. So, now, we're going to bake it about 425 for about 22 to 26 minutes. And are you a rotator? Do you like to rotate your pans?
Gemma Stafford:
What I do is I leave them in there. And then if anybody is not looking as brown as the other ones, I'll pull some scones off. And I'll pop them back in.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. Now, we're going to cool the scones on a wire rack for a few minutes before we're going to serve them with butter or jam or fresh cream. Is it whipped cream or is it clotted cream?
Gemma Stafford:
So, in Ireland, we do usually whipped cream. And when we go home-
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay.
Gemma Stafford:
... because Kevin and I, like I said, we go to a place called Kelly's across the road from my mum's house, we always get scones almost every day when we go home, but Kevin will get jam and cream and butter, and I will just get butter. We do lightly. Lightly whipped cream is always lovely.
When I first started Bigger Bolder Baking, when I came to the U.S., people said to me, "What's your recipe for whipped cream?" And I just didn't get what they meant because I just didn't get it. I was like, "What do you mean? It's cream, and you whip it." And they were like, "Yeah, but what do you put into it?" You're like, "You don't put anything into it. You whip cream." So, lightly whipped cream on top of a scone with jam and butter is just the-
Jessie Sheehan:
Perfection.
Gemma Stafford:
... business. It is.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, my gosh. That sounds so amazing. I wanted to just mention three other recipes with you that I was hoping you could tell us a little bit about. First of all, just because it's a twist on what we just discussed, can you tell us about your raspberry yogurt scones?
Gemma Stafford:
Oh, my gosh. Those are so good. They are really lovely. So, that's in my second book, “Bigger Bolder Baking Every Day.” And I love those. They are more tender. And for the bakers who are listening who know the magic of baking with sour cream, yogurt, buttermilk, it's a magic ingredient.
It's another tender scone, but the liquid is yogurt mixed with raspberries. That scone, it is cut into triangles. It was done in a round and cut in triangles just to be a little bit different. It's a lovely recipe. It's not something that you would have to have butter with. It's a complete scone, really lovely, very tender, very buttery. And it's just a special recipe.
Jessie Sheehan:
Sounds so delicious to me. Using yogurt as your, "liquid," in one of those recipes. And I think I learned it over at Serious Eats maybe. I thought it was such a brilliant way to make extra-tender baked goods like that.
Gemma Stafford:
Pie crust, especially-
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Gemma Stafford:
... if you added buttermilk, and yogurt pie crust and sour cream are my absolute favorite.
Jessie Sheehan:
So delicious. And then can you tell us about your soda bread? And I think the recipe is based on your mom's traditional Irish soda bread, her brown bread.
Gemma Stafford:
Yes. So, brown bread is another one of these Irish recipes that's very simple. And it is another recipe that's done by hand that you could whip up. This is done around the country on a daily basis in people's homes and in bakeries. So, it really has to be something that just literally has to come together.
And in Ballymaloe, if anybody who's listening has gone or is planning on going, Darina is fierce about making sure that everybody who leaves there knows how to properly make a loaf of soda bread. Soda bread, it's a basic recipe. It's a pound of flour, a little bit of baking powder, a little bit of salt, and buttermilk. Sometimes, it will have an egg. Sometimes, it will have butter in there.
The secret when it comes to making soda bread is it can be quite dense if you overmix it. So, you really have to go in, in a nice big bowl with a nice open palm, and just very quickly, the quick as you can, just bring all those ingredients together.
Just like with our pancake batters, lumps and everything are okay. Bring it together, shape it, get it into the oven, because it will start to activate, that baking soda will start to activate really quickly once it hits the buttermilk. So, you want to get that lovely spring in the oven and not sitting on the countertop.
Jessie Sheehan:
Finally, can you tell us about some of the homemade ice cream recipes, since I know those are so popular?
Gemma Stafford:
The homemade ice cream. Yes. So, it is two-ingredients, no-machine ice cream. So, it is whipped cream and condensed milk. And I have a recipe for condensed milk on my website, which I don't know if you've made before, Jessie, but it's simmered down milk and a little bit of sugar. It's very simple. And whipped cream, a whipping cream with 36%, the highest you can get, 36% fat, 40, anything above 36% fat content.
You whip it up. You add in your condensed milk. And you can see this on biggerbolderbaking.com and on YouTube with my videos. What you end up with is this lovely thick blank canvas. You can add a little bit of vanilla in there. The vanilla, being alcohol-based, lowers the freezing point. So, it will be a little bit more scoopable. When you get this lovely thick billowy structure to the mix, it will make it quite scoopable. And then you literally just go nuts.
And one of the reasons why this was, I think, our second viral video, you add anything you want into this ice cream, like M&M's, or cookies, or nuts, melted chocolate fruit, whatever it is. The world is your oyster. You can literally create any flavor. And over the years, we probably have, I don't know, 50 or 60 flavors of this ice cream. We've created Ben & Jerry's famous flavors with this ice cream. Oh, we use it for absolutely everything. It's such a fun recipe.
And I'll tell you this as well, Jessie. We get a lot of e-mails from women in different countries around the world who say that maybe they are stay-at-home parents. They wanted to have their own income. They wanted to get back to work, whatever it was. And they've started making this ice cream, and storing it in their freezer, and selling it to their friends and family and neighbors. We've gotten so many messages from women just all around the world saying that they've created an ice cream business using this recipe.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, my gosh.
Gemma Stafford:
Isn't that funny?
Jessie Sheehan:
Gemma, I love that. Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today, Gemma. And I just want to say that you are my cherry pie.
Gemma Stafford:
Thank you. It was lovely to chat with you. Thank you so much.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's it for today's show. Thank you to Plugra Premium European Style Butter and California Prunes for their support. Don't forget to subscribe to She's My Cherry Pie on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. And tell your baking buddies about us. She's My Cherry Pie is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network and is recorded at CityVox Studio in Manhattan. Our producers are Kerry Diamond and Catherine Baker. Our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu. And our editorial assistant is Londyn Crenshaw. Thank you so much for listening to She's My Cherry Pie. And happy baking.