Bobbi Brown Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center, in the heart of New York City. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine.
Before we talk about today's guest, I just want to say I'm so grateful for our Cherry Bombe community and all the amazing individuals who make up the Bombesquad. You are a kind, curious, smart, and supportive group of humans, and I am lucky to have you as listeners. If anything, the events of last week make me want to spotlight even more women and bring you their stories, their wisdom, their struggles, and their success. I'm thinking of all of you, and I believe in my heart that good will prevail. Feel free to DM me on Instagram @kerrybombe at any time with questions, comments, or suggestions. I usually say this at the end of the show, but you are the Bombe. I hope you all know that.
Today's guest is definitely an inspiring woman. It's Bobbi Brown, the makeup artist and entrepreneur. If you're wondering why we have a makeup artist on the show, hang tight. Bobbi is a brilliant entrepreneur, and she's also the queen of the second act. Bobbi joins me in just a minute to talk about life after leaving her namesake beauty line, what it was like launching Jones Road Beauty, which just turned four years old and has been a giant hit, and how she got into the hotel business. Yes, Bobbi Brown is a hotelier. She's co-owner of The George in Montclair, New Jersey, and just launched a collab with Williams-Sonoma Home. And, of course, we talk about food. Bobbi is a big foodie and loves the intersection of delicious and healthy. When we worked together at Yahoo a few years ago, she was always sending me the names of culinary creatives and cookbooks that I needed to check out. Bobbi is a good friend and has been an inspiration to me for a long time now. Stay tuned for our chat.
Today's episode is presented by Kerrygold. Have you noticed that butter is having a moment? I've seen handbags sculpted out of butter, little couches made from butter pats, tiny butter cherubs, even butter-colored nail polish and fashion. The world is butter-obsessed, but you know who loves butter more than most? The folks at Kerrygold. They've been perfecting their craft for decades, using milk from Irish grass-fed cows to create their famously rich, creamy golden butter. There's a reason Kerrygold is beloved by everyone, from home cooks to the world's top culinary creatives. It's just better butter. Kerrygold salted pure Irish butter has a butterfat content of 80%, while the unsalted version has a butterfat content of 82%. And that beautiful yellow color? It's thanks to beta-carotene found naturally in milk from grass-fed cows. Want to get in on the fun? Get yourself some Kerrygold and whip up some flavored compound butter, fill some fancy butter molds, or sculpt one of those gorgeous butter mounds for your next dinner party or get-together. Visit kerrygoldusa.com to learn more, get recipes, and find a stockist near you.
This episode is also presented by Zacapa Rum. There's so much to share with you about Zacapa. First off, its unique flavor profile. Smooth and complex with layers of sweet honeyed caramel, dark chocolate, and dried fruit. Lorena Vasquez has been Zacapa's master blender for the past 40 years. Lorena is an industry legend and a trailblazer, as she's one of the very few female master blenders in the world. Zacapa Rum is handcrafted from the first press of sugarcane, grown in rich volcanic soil in southern Guatemala. Once distilled, the rum is brought up to a mountain high above sea level and aged using a slow process called Sistema Solera, which gives Zacapa Rum its signature flavor and aromas. Another thing I love about Zacapa? Their history of supporting artists and women in the region. The very first bottles of Zacapa, from 1976 when the brand was founded, were covered by a woven material known as patate, made from dried woven palm leaves and inspired by the Mayans. Today, more than 700 women from three Guatemalan communities create the patate bands that adorn each bottle of Zacapa, providing a nod to the brand's Guatemalan heritage. Visit zacaparum.com to learn about the different Zacapa rums, including the Lux, Zacapa XO, and find classic and contemporary cocktail recipes.
Listeners, Cherry Bombe's next Jubilee conference is taking place in New York City on April 12th. Early bird tickets are on sale right now at cherrybombe.com. If you're an official Bombesquad member, be sure to check your inbox for special member pricing. Jubilee is a conference we started in 2014 as a way to bring women together for networking, conversation, and community. It's a beautiful day filled with friends, new and old, great talks and panels, and amazing things to eat and drink. This year's Jubilee will be our biggest and our best one yet. Again, visit cherrybombe.com for early bird tickets. Prices will go up January 1st. The link is in our show notes.
Now, let's check in with today's guest. Bobbi Brown, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Bobbi Brown:
I am so happy to be here, see you and talk to you. It's not even funny.
Kerry Diamond:
You spoke at one of our very first Jubilees. I think it might've been the second one. There was very little social media at the time. I think it was like Facebook and Instagram, maybe. And I have never seen more tweets about a talk in my life than the number of tweets you got. I think your talk was only 10 minutes, and it might've been like, I don't know, "Recipe for an Interesting Life" or "Ingredients for Success," something like that. But I just remember it being amazing. And then you introduced Ina Garten, so it was back-to-back. Major.
Bobbi Brown:
Wow! Wait, wait, it's all coming back to me because I saw her yesterday.
Kerry Diamond:
You did? Just casually, you bumped into Ina?
Bobbi Brown:
No, no, no. She was being interviewed on stage at the Montclair Film Festival by Stephen Colbert. So, Missy Robbins, and myself, Lynette, and Pyle went backstage to say hello to her before, and I forgot that... Oh yeah, I knew her from back then.
Kerry Diamond:
It was at the Montclair Film Festival. That's so much fun because we just had Evie Colbert on the show, and she's the co-founder of the film festival.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah, of course. It's my little town. I know that. I've also done Martha Stewart's very first cookbook. I did her makeup on the first, and I just heard that she now has 100 books.
Kerry Diamond:
She just did her 100th book. All right, so you spoke at Jubilee. You and I have had a relationship forever. I met you back when I worked at Women's Wear Daily, when I was as a beauty news reporter. We've stayed in touch over the years. I'm a super fan of your products and of what you're doing now, but you are also a big foodie, and that's one of the reasons I have you here today. We're going to talk about that. I want you to talk about entrepreneurship because you are a genius entrepreneur. You are the queen of the second act right now. Four years now, you launched Jones Road, which is a beauty brand. Why did you decide to get back into the beauty business?
Bobbi Brown:
I didn't know I was going to do that when I left the old brand, or sometimes I call it the "old country." I had time in my life to reinvent myself. I didn't think about it. I don't think about things. I just kind of checked things out. I mean, you and I also worked together at Yahoo, right?
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I forgot about... Oh, wait.
Bobbi Brown:
You forgot? Hello? When you were the beauty editor of Harper.
Kerry Diamond:
Of Harper's Bazaar. Yeah.
Bobbi Brown:
So we go deep and way back.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I totally forgot Yahoo. Sorry, everybody. When Marissa Mayer took over Yahoo, she hired Bobbi to be the editor-in-chief of Yahoo Beauty and hired me to be the editor-in-chief of Yahoo Food.
Bobbi Brown:
Right. And I don't know how to type, and I took the job because my kids would say, "What?"
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. I took the job because I wanted to learn. And sometimes the best way to learn is when people are paying you to learn. And I learned a ton because nothing got more traffic back then than the Yahoo homepage. It was a fascinating lesson in what to do, what not to do. And I loved it.
Bobbi Brown:
Or not to do.
Kerry Diamond:
A lot of what not to do. Yeah.
Bobbi Brown:
Right. But I'm someone that doesn't believe in failures. I believe that sometimes things don't work the way you want them to, and that doesn't mean that you failed. It just means it's a message to do something else.
Kerry Diamond:
I wouldn't say Yahoo was a failure. I would say it was a very interesting experiment.
Bobbi Brown:
Yes, it was. But even after I left the first brand, I didn't have, "Oh, I should do this. I want to do this." I just kind of saw what was happening, and I just tried things. I filmed a Masterclass. I opened a Just Bobbi shop in Lord & Taylor, and then I ended up bringing it in digitally. I worked on a very interesting wellness brand called Evolution18, which was all about beauty from the inside out. That was my ninth book, which I was promoting, How Food Is Really the Secret to Wellness, which leads you to beauty.
It's interesting that you say I'm a foodie, and I am, but I'm also a health nut. There's not a lot of health nut foodies out there. I am one. It's been a big journey, and I just love eating food that tastes delicious and doesn't make you feel bad.
Kerry Diamond:
We'll be right back with today's guest. Let's welcome a new sponsor. It is Meridian Printing, the family-owned printing company based in East Greenwich, Rhode Island. Meridian has printed Cherry Bombe magazine for the past several years, and it's always a pleasure working with the team at Meridian. They are meticulous and professional and care more than any other printer we've ever worked with. They are amazing partners. When I wanted to print three covers of our Icons issue, they said, "No problem." When I wanted to put a Molly Baz poster in every copy of our Molly issue, they said, "We got it." And they were amazing about helping us get the pink shade just right for our new Ina Garten issue. If you have an idea for a magazine or a zine, or maybe you want to do books on demand, you should talk to the team at Meridian Printing. Visit meridianprinting.com for more information.
Some happy news from Cherry Bombe HQ. We just announced who's on the cover of our holiday issue, and it's Ina Garten, a.k.a. The Barefoot Contessa. We all love Ina. The issue is available for pre-order right now at cherrybombe.com, and of course, you can also subscribe. The link is in our show notes. This issue of our print magazine is a fun one. There's the special Ina section with essays that will make you laugh and cry, a holiday recipe sampler with more than a dozen recipes that will perk up any party, and our first-ever horoscopes. Subscribe or pre-order by November 15th to be the first to receive this issue. You can also pick up a copy later this month at your favorite bookstore or culinary shop.
When you were running Yahoo Beauty, you were always telling me about food. We didn't call them content creators back then or influencers, but you were always telling me about interesting women who had cookbooks, who were doing cool things on social media. And yes, that's another reason why we have you here, because you've always had your eye on that. And you're one of the few people in beauty who talks about beauty inside out instead of the industry's always been very focused on outside.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah. And I honestly think my healthy eating has done well for me because I'm 67 years old. I don't feel it. I don't think I look it. I know I don't act it. And I don't know what you're supposed to look like when you're in your sixties, and I don't have a clue what I'm going to look like in my seventies. But feeling good in your body is the secret of life. Being able to bend down and pick something up, by the way, to put your luggage on a shelf and not have to ask someone to help you. I always want to do those things. They're just basic things.
Kerry Diamond:
Bobbi, what drives you? I think I've known you long enough to know that money doesn't drive you, although you have been enormously successful and made a lot of money, but I don't think you do all these things to make more money. Why do you do all these things?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, it's funny. I never did anything to make money. When I was young and didn't know what I wanted to do, I remember my mother said, "Forget about what you think you should do. Forget about how you're going to make money. Pretend today's your birthday. You could do something you love. What is it?" And that's when I said, "I want to go to the Marshall Field's and play with makeup."
And my parents, both of them, believed that if I did what I loved, then I would find a success somewhere. They also knew there was no way I could become either a secretary or an accountant or anything like that. So luckily, I got to follow my path, which was having no path at all.
Kerry Diamond:
And even when you started as a makeup artist, there really weren't any examples of people who had their own lines, who were crushing it, who just were changing the world with these products. There were a handful of people who had their own beauty lines. They weren't makeup artists. Makeup artist brands weren't really a thing. I think MAC had been around for a few years, but you started very modestly. You decided, was it seven lipsticks?
Bobbi Brown:
One. I made one.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, one.
Bobbi Brown:
So I started with one. I met a chemist, and I told him that I hated lipstick. I told him what I wanted in a lipstick, and he said, "I could make it for you." So he made me this lipstick that was the color of lips that I wish I had. I called it Brown. I probably should have called it Nude, but I called it Brown. And then I started thinking about all the different women who I would work with and different color lips. I started making lipstick to match those lips. And then I had 10, and I sold them out of my house for many years until I met someone at a party. I asked her what she did, and she told me she was a cosmetics buyer for Bergdorf. And that's how I launched at Bergdorf.
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, I didn't know you were selling them out of your house.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah, so I was an indie beauty person way before there was a term. Yes, I would sell them out of my house, and my husband would mail them. They were literally these black cases that looked like Chanel that we were able to buy out of a catalog. We didn't have boxes. We put them in vanilla envelopes with a little piece of paper with the ingredients, who knew that they were whatever, sustainable, whatever all those terms were, and they were successful. Then someone named Leslie Seymour, who was an editor at Glamour, said, "Can I write about them?" Why would you want to write about them? I mean, I guess that's called PR. And that started blowing up this little teeny company.
Kerry Diamond:
And when you got into Bergdorf Goodman, you did not have a plan?
Bobbi Brown:
I did not have a plan, nor was I someone that shopped at Bergdorf Goodman. So I didn't have a plan, and they didn't have room for us. They put us on a table. It was quite successful, and then they asked for more products. So we came out with lip liners and whatever else, and then they had no room for us. So they said, "Well, we could put you in the purse department next door." And they gave us a counter in the middle of the fancy handbag department, which was brilliant because it kept us looking special and not part of the big beauty hall room. It wasn't a plan, Kerry. There was no strategy. It was like, "You want to be here or not?"
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. At what point did you say, "Okay, we need a strategy. We need a plan here?"
Bobbi Brown:
I am sure there were people that I worked with that had those words and said those things. I just kept thinking of new cool things to do and ways to share the information. I also was a makeup artist, so I did fashion shows, I worked with magazines. People like you would call me up and say, "Bobbi, what's the trend?" And I would literally have to make it up. And I'd say, "Oh, the trend is natural makeup." And all of a sudden, you'd write about, "Bobbi Brown says the trend is natural makeup and people should wear nude lips." Well, people would run to the counters.
Kerry Diamond:
After lots of hard work and lots of amazing products, the Estée Lauder Companies buys Bobbi Brown. Do you wish that you hadn't put your name on your company?
Bobbi Brown:
No, I don't wish anything to be different. We sold the company after four and a half years. My husband and I had two partners, and anyone that has partners knows it's not always easy. And it was great for us to sell to a big corporation that wanted to partner and help us. So when we first joined Estée Lauder, it was really magic. Leonard Lauder, as you know, is magic.
And so after we sold the company, I stayed 22 years. I don't know any other founder that ever did that. And then I left without knowing what I was going to do, and four and a half more years on a long non-compete. And as my husband reminds me, it was also, I had a buyout. I had a percentage of international sales. So, I stayed and launched Jones Road the day my non-compete was up.
Kerry Diamond:
You had a phenomenal run at the Estée Lauder. The reason I ask that question is because we've got so many entrepreneurs out there who are starting their own products, always struggling, "What am I going to name my brand?" You probably see it more in fashion than in food, where people put their name on their company. But do you think today it's a good idea to name a company after yourself?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, when we named it Bobbi Brown, I was already known. So other people have named their company after them, but no one knows who they are. So I think that's maybe not the best idea, but I don't know. I mean, it made sense at the time. Someone suggested it, and I thought it was totally bizarro, but I'm like, "Sure, okay, why not?" It was weird. The first time I looked at a lipstick case and saw my name, I'm like, "That's weird." But now I see it and I don't have any emotion to it. When I first left the company, I had a lot of emotion, but after four years and the success of Jones Road, I'm like, "Eh, that was then. This is now."
Kerry Diamond:
So Jones Road, what does that name mean?
Bobbi Brown:
It doesn't mean anything. In order for me to launch the day I wanted to launch, it was very important to me to launch the day my non-compete was up because it was the first day I had freedom in 25 years. So it was one week before the last presidential election in the middle of the pandemic and everything else that was going on, and everyone advised me against it, every PR company, every friend. And I just did not listen. I found someone that agreed with me, Lynette, who's sitting right here, and we launched Jones Road.
Kerry Diamond:
There is no Jones Road?
Bobbi Brown:
No. Well, there is a Jones Road. My husband and I were driving to the Hamptons, and I was looking down at Waze. We were discussing how if I didn't have a name by Monday, I couldn't launch in time, the timeline. And I looked down, and I saw Jones Road. I said to my husband, "Jones Road Beauty." He said, "I like it." And it reminded me of a bespoke brand out of the U.K., I'm an Anglophile. Also, I said, "Well, I can't use Brown, so I might as well use Jones." And the best news of all, it was available.
Kerry Diamond:
There you go. Okay. Why spend all your time Googling brand names, you could just go on Waze. So I remember when you launched from your basement or something.
Bobbi Brown:
Well, from my couch, really. From my couch in my office.
Kerry Diamond:
You turned on, what was it, Instagram Live or Zoom?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, we launched with a business story in The Wall Street Journal. The Today Show did a seven-minute piece they had filmed, and also Elvis Duran. We turned on the Instagram, and then we put our head down because we didn't know what was going to happen. I mean, the world was at a very interesting place.
Kerry Diamond:
And tell us what happened.
Bobbi Brown:
What happened was people were like, "Oh my God, this is incredible." And we didn't, as they say in our industry, seed the market, because we couldn't. We couldn't do any promotion. We couldn't do anything. So we just followed whatever made sense at the time. There wasn't a strategy. We didn't wait to give-
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, did you say there was not a strategy?
Bobbi Brown:
Not. There was not a strategy. It was literally me and three other people. Okay, well, let's just do the press. Everyone was working at home, so we couldn't even send things to offices. So we made a list, and I have this list called FOBs, which are Friends of Bobbi. And there are people on there, anyone from Gloria Steinem to Kris Jenner, all these people. So we started reaching out to them and said, "Can we send this to you?" And people said yes. They started posting it, and that was a nice awareness. It brought people to the website, to the Instagram, and then we just literally had to work. You have to constantly work.
Kerry Diamond:
It's so interesting that there was no strategy. Do you think entrepreneurs overthink things?
Bobbi Brown:
I think everyone overthinks everything. Yes, I do. In my head, I know what you're supposed to do, and I kind of connect all the dots and understand the cadence of when you do things and how it helps. And from an awareness point, I just know that innately, or else all my years of experience. I don't write it on paper. And I know there are people that work for me now that have major... I mean, if my daughter-in-law and son were here, they'd be like, "Look at me. Are you kidding? Do you have any idea what goes into all of our strategy and all?" And I know they do, and they have it, and they're brilliant, but it's just not the way my mind works.
Kerry Diamond:
It sounds like you are very good at operating from the gut, trusting your gut.
Bobbi Brown:
I am. And it doesn't always work out, and sometimes I have to backpedal. And you know what? Every once in a while, you have to take down a post because you're like, "Alright, something wasn't right about that." Then you throw something up, and you look. And I'm very competitive with myself. "How did that do?" "Oh, that did so well." I mean, I just posted a picture that I saw on the internet of Christy Turlington, where she looks, I mean, she is the most beautiful woman in the world, but she hasn't done anything to her face and has the most beautiful lines in her face. And it was so refreshing to see someone look like that. I can't tell you how many people forwarded it. I mean, it was incredible.
Kerry Diamond:
We haven't touched on the fact that you are not a fan of fillers, plastic surgery, things like that. Filters.
Bobbi Brown:
No, I'm not. I'm not. But I do color my hair. I'm 100% gray, and I do always make sure I'm in good lighting and try to find good angles. So, it's not like I don't care. I just like to look really good in an authentic way.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, back to the strategy thing. Were there things that you did either when you started Bobbi Brown or during your time when the company was part of Estée Lauder that you thought, "I'm going to do things differently at Jones Road?"
Bobbi Brown:
Well, there is. Certainly, when I started Jones Road, I knew what my experience, and what I learned how to do. And also, importantly, like the Yahoo, I knew what not to do. Mostly, I knew what not to do. I knew I didn't want layers, and I knew I didn't want a lot of opinions on what we were doing. And I knew I needed to get the information and the product out fast.
For example, we ran out of our Dusty Rose Miracle Balm, I think the first week or two, and we were completely out of stock, and I was like, "Oh my God, that's the end of this new company. What am I going to do?" And it would've taken three months to get the color back in. And then I got a call that there was, I don't know, two or three thousand sitting in the warehouse, but they didn't have boxes. So my team said, "Well, we're going to order boxes." I said, "No, you're not. You're going to go to King's. You're going to buy white sandwich bags, and go to Staples next door and get pink neon tape, and we're going to put them in these white envelopes, and we're going to put the ingredients on a card, and we're going to send them out like that." And we sold them all in one day.
Kerry Diamond:
That's amazing. I love that product. Tell us a few other things. You said you knew what you weren't going to do. You said you didn't want layers, you didn't want tons of opinions.
Bobbi Brown:
Yes. I didn't want fancy packaging. I didn't want over-packaged products.
Kerry Diamond:
Because people just throw those things out.
Bobbi Brown:
They do, and it's a waste of money, and I don't like the way they look. I mean, I've always been inspired by the food industry. From early days, like Dean & DeLuca, I used to walk around and buy all these cool things. And now your industry, and I think a lot of it because of you, Ms. Kerry Diamond, has exploded in the cool, hip Brooklyn food scene. And I wanted the makeup packaging to kind of have that feel, loose, raw. I didn't want things over-marketed. We hired a writer to help us with the copy in the beginning. She has never done copywriting. She was a writer for New Yorker, and just a super smart girl. It was so fresh. So I didn't want the same copy, the same copywriters. I didn't want the same anything.
Kerry Diamond:
I know this is an overused term, but you seem like a real out-of-the-box thinker.
Bobbi Brown:
I am. I just like, "Okay. Yeah." And I just think I have a sense of, "Wow, that's so interesting. Let's do that now."
Kerry Diamond:
So, you also really use social media to get the word out about this brand, and you turn the camera right on yourself. Were you comfortable doing that?
Bobbi Brown:
I mean, I didn't think I was going to be the face of it. And, as a matter of fact, my husband, who is one of my biggest supporters, said, "You've really got to find a young actress to be the face of the brand." Because I don't know if he said it this way, but, "You might not be relevant anymore."
Kerry Diamond:
I'm sure he delivered it in kinder words than that.
Bobbi Brown:
No, probably not. But he loves me, and I know that. And he wanted me to be successful, and it was a very young person's game. Things are changing, but it was. And I just was like, "Uh-huh." But, I mean, who am I going to bring in and hire that's going to be authentic? Nobody. So it never happened. And we used a lot of faces of the brand or content creators, and you know what? I was performing.
So yeah, I have to go in studio all the time and do things. And again, I put my makeup on, I get a blowout, I look for great light. And sometimes I look at the footage, and I'm like, "I look really good." And other times I look and I say, "What is with that lighting? My neck looks terrible." And guys, you can't shoot a woman in her sixties when her head is down, dipping into the compact. Guys, I've got a young team, and they're like, "Bobbi, you're crazy." I'm like, "No, I'm not. No, I'm not."
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. So, you said something interesting. I want to go back to, "Beauty is a young person's game." What do you mean by that, then?
Bobbi Brown:
I mean, if you are sitting there talking on social media or on TV when we launched, I mean, did we think that someone wants to see someone in their sixties with lines in their face? We didn't know. I mean, this brand is not just for people my own age, it's for all ages.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you worried about ageism on social media?
Bobbi Brown:
No. No. I'm not worried about ageism at all.
Kerry Diamond:
You're not?
Bobbi Brown:
Oh, I'm not at all.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you think it's a real thing?
Bobbi Brown:
I'm sure for most people, but I think it's about your mindset, and it's about what you think. So right now, my son, Cody, who started as our CMO and now he's basically acting CEO, he's kind of running half of the brand. We have a deal that he's not allowed to say to me, "Mom, that's how they used to do it. That's not how they do it now." And I'm not allowed to say to him, "You're not as experienced as I am." We have that deal. So just because I am a certain age and I've experienced things doesn't mean that my opinion of where we're going and what we're doing shouldn't be heard. That's how we have a lot of our weekly conversations about what's happening.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you spend a lot of time on social media?
Bobbi Brown:
Oh yeah. It's addicting for me as a visual person, as a curious person. But I had a business coach I worked with for a while, and I said to her, "Every time I sit down on the couch and my husband puts some show on, or my kids do, I sit down, and I look up at the TV, and then I look down into my iPad, and I just start scrolling." And she said, "Bobbi, that's the way you're self-soothing." And it's 100% true. It calms me down to be a visual person and look at things. And I just love Instagram. I'm not going to lie. I don't want to read things, I just want to look at things.
Kerry Diamond:
I don't want to keep harping on the age thing, but do you feel like you see lots of different ages on Instagram?
Bobbi Brown:
I do.
Kerry Diamond:
You do?
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah, I do.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah. I mean, look, it's mostly a young person's thing, but no, I guess because the ones that I like and engage with, they're sent to me. I love to dance. I get so many dancing videos served to me, especially people of a certain age, and I love them. I really believe this. It's not the way you look, it's the way you feel about the way you look.
Kerry Diamond:
I agree with that. All right, let's jump to food beauty. When did you become interested in healthy eating?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, I grew up in the '70s on diets. My mom and I were on every diet, the pineapple diet, the honey-oil-and-vinegar diet, whatever the diet was. So I was either on or off a diet. I always struggled with my weight. When I was younger, I'm five foot tall, and like a pound or two looks like a lot. And then what do I do? I move to New York City and go right into the fashion pages and fashion shows, and I'm with these tall, skinny models. I'm a sponge, so I would eat what they would eat. Well, that didn't work. I couldn't eat the catering food, and I didn't want to be on and off a diet.
And one day a light bulb went off, and I said, "If I eat a bagel, I go into a coma, a chocolate chip cookie, forget it, pasta at lunch, forget it. But if I eat protein and vegetables, I feel better. I have more energy and a piece of fruit." So I started changing the way I ate. I said, "I'm not going to go beyond a diet." And then I realized, the healthier that you put food in your body, the better you feel. So I started not touching processed food and eating real food.
Farm-fresh food wasn't a thing back then. That slowly evolved. And when I left the brand and had time on my hands, I went back to school and got my degree as a health coach from IIN. The amazing thing about IIN, and there are so many people that graduated from IIN who have food brands, healthy food brands now, so it's a really cool school and a great audience for you, I'm sure.
Kerry Diamond:
I don't even know about IIN. What does it stand for?
Bobbi Brown:
Institute of Integrative Nutrition. Simply Elizabeth and her granola, she graduated from there. Lily Koonin, who has the wellness stores in New York, she graduated from there. So, so many women that loved food, so many people love food so much, but their bodies don't, or they have gluten allergies or something. It's taken me a while to be able to eat bread because I never ate bread. I used to think it made me puffy, and I realized it was in my head. If I eat a little bit of bread, I'm fine. If I had a loaf of bread, I'm going to feel awful. So, I've worked on some of my eating habits, so I don't feel bad when I eat.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you cook, Bobbi?
Bobbi Brown:
I do cook. I've been known to be a very plain cook, but I am now... I'm channeling Missy Robbins. I've become friends with Missy, and I buy her things. And literally, I made some soup last week, and I was like, "This is really tasteless." I opened up a jar of her eggplant. It was in olive oil and all this amazing flavor, and I just mixed it in. I served it to my husband. He said, "Wow, you really brought the flavor game up." I'm working on my flavor game.
Kerry Diamond:
Who normally cooks?
Bobbi Brown:
My husband loves to go out. He's a very social person. I love to stay home. So, unfortunately, we'd order in a bunch when we're not going out, and I really don't love ordering in, especially in New Jersey. We're not in Brooklyn. But my kids are major, major foodies. All three of the boys, particularly my oldest, Dylan, and my youngest, Duke. If you go on my Instagram, one of the highlights is Duke's food. He does the most incredible cooking, and they're all foodies. My daughter-in-law, Pyle, is an incredible chef. We eat a lot together, whether it's restaurants or at home.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you a Farmer's Market fan?
Bobbi Brown:
I am absolutely a Farmer's Market fan. I get a delivery in the summer in the Hamptons, which a friend of mine has this incredible farm, Stone Throws Farm in the Hamptons. It's so good, but there's a few things in there I have no idea what to do with. So Duke figures out and he cooks them. But I love... First of all, I can't believe you could still buy good tomatoes because the weather's so good.
Kerry Diamond:
The season's really long in New York for tomatoes. People don't realize that. I just saw them in my Farmer's Market yesterday. Is there a good Montclair Farmer's Market?
Bobbi Brown:
Oh, there's a great Montclair Farmer's Market, and it has doubled in size. It's on Saturdays and all the cool organic fish and meat, and I just bought these gluten-free waffles that, literally, are the best thing I ever tasted. I put peanut butter on top of them, and I run out the door. I just don't spend the time making breakfast for myself. I'm always in a rush.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about another project of yours, The George Hotel. You own a hotel in Montclair.
Bobbi Brown:
How funny is that? If anyone would've said to me, "Bobbi, one day you're going to own a hotel," I'd be like, "Yeah, right."
Kerry Diamond:
Is the right word, "hotelier"? How did you become a hotelier?
Bobbi Brown:
Yes, hotelier. Well, after I left the company, when I called Stephen and said, "I'm done-"
Kerry Diamond:
Stephen, your hubby? Mm-hmm.
Bobbi Brown:
My husband. And he said, "I'll be right there." And he came in, and we went out for lunch. He said to me, "I just bought this building." He's a developer. He said, "I just bought this building. I'm not sure what to do with it, if I'm going to make it residential, but what do you think of creating a hotel?" And I just looked at him. I'm like, "Huh?" And I said, "Okay."
We renovated this building. His team renovated the building. My team, I had three or four people on the team, went and did everything from the paint colors to the partnerships to the experience, training the staff, how to fluff a pillow. And it's been an incredible experience, and it's been very successful and really fun. Every day I go there, I say hi to someone, and there's just such interesting people. I mean, we've had Steven Spielberg stay there. Diane Keaton has been there, Emma Roberts, whenever people are filming, and it's just been a great experience.
Kerry Diamond:
How many rooms?
Bobbi Brown:
There are 31 rooms. There's a gym, and all the rooms have names. There's a theme. The gym room is definitely called J.I.M, and there's photos of famous people. There's a picture of... There's a lot of Georges in the lobby.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. Why the name George Hotel?
Bobbi Brown:
Because it used to be called the Georgian Inn. We don't have room service. We serve a really beautiful, curated, local, European-style breakfast every day for the guests.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you avoiding the word "Continental?"
Bobbi Brown:
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay.
Bobbi Brown:
No. When you go to Denmark or Sweden or anywhere and you just see this incredible hotel buffet, it's very curated. And we have Simply Elizabeth. We have her granola. There's a bakery in Montclair called My French Dad. We've got the local hip bagel shop. So, we make sure that it's as local and sustainable as possible.
Kerry Diamond:
You are doing a fun thing very soon. You've got a Williams-Sonoma collection tied to the George. What's that all about?
Bobbi Brown:
Yes. Well, Thanksgiving a couple years ago, I go for my walks in Montclair because it's really beautiful, and I stop in and I ate breakfast. There's hard-boiled eggs. My breakfast is two hard-boiled eggs with salt and pepper. The end of My French Dad's because I like the end, some real butter, and some blueberries. That's my-
Kerry Diamond:
Wait. Is that a loaf of bread? My French Dad?
Bobbi Brown:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah. Yeah. His bakery is called My French Dad, and he makes this amazing baguette, and I like the ends. So, that's my breakfast. And I always say hi to people, and people sometimes look at me, "Is that her?" And I went up to this one interesting woman and introduced myself. She had this British accent, and she said, "Oh, I'm such a big fan." And I said, "What do you do?" She said, "I'm the CMO of Williams-Sonoma." She said, "I've stayed here four or five times." And maybe a year later, she reached out and said, "What if we do this collab? We are launching this collab, Williams-Sonoma and The George, which is inspired by the design of The George, which is very U.K.-centric and things that you would want to buy for your home."
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's fun. Well, anyone who's worked with Williams-Sonoma knows that you're talking about Jean Armstrong.
Bobbi Brown:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
The one and only. What are a few of the highlights in the collection?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, I'm so excited about the leather, either the frames, the trays, the garbage can, the cool little round box, which I will put toilet paper in with a little dog on the top of it. There's some games, because it's holiday, there's an ice bucket, a chess game. There's some cool pillows.
Kerry Diamond:
It sounds like you had fun working on this. It's a little different from your day-to-day.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah. It was so fun. And look, I'm not an interior decorator by trade, but I am the chief creative officer of Jones Road, and we've got six, soon to be seven stores. We don't have a team that does merchandising, so we do it. And I guess because I've done makeup on so many shoots and there's always stylists there, I've kind of learned a lot.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you also writing a memoir?
Bobbi Brown:
I am. I am.
Kerry Diamond:
But you just covered your face.
Bobbi Brown:
I keep saying, well, it's not really a memoir, so it's not a tell-all. I've taken out all those stories that I don't need to tell. Unless you come and have a tequila with me, I'll tell you all of them, but I don't need them in the book. But I'm really writing this book that's kind of weaving all these different things together that is helping me figure out why I am the way I am and where it came from. And hopefully when people read it, it will give them, "Oh, that's so simple. I never thought of that."
Kerry Diamond:
When do you think the book will come out?
Bobbi Brown:
I know when the book comes out. It's going to come out in September of 2025, with our five-year anniversary of Jones Road.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, Bobbi, we're going to do a speed round. What beverage do you start your morning with?
Bobbi Brown:
Athletic Greens.
Kerry Diamond:
Really?
Bobbi Brown:
I do. I swear by it. I do it right before my double espresso.
Kerry Diamond:
Why Athletic Greens?
Bobbi Brown:
The best tasting. I told them they should do a campaign that says, "It doesn't taste that bad." It doesn't taste bad, and I've been putting a touch of blood orange juice in it, and it really tastes delicious.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. And you feel like it works?
Bobbi Brown:
Oh my God. It alkalizes my body and it gives me energy. Yeah, I do swear that it works, and I am not paid by them.
Kerry Diamond:
And then espresso?
Bobbi Brown:
Double espresso because I'm very lazy. Even though I have a beautiful machine there that I'm not using because I'm just too lazy. I put organic half and half in it.
Kerry Diamond:
What is always in your fridge?
Bobbi Brown:
Pellegrino. Always Pellegrino. Always berries, organic berries. Always full-fat Greek yogurt and cottage cheese. It's the only thing I really eat that's not organic, because I love the Breakstone, the red one. It's unsalted, there's no fat in it, and there's something sour in it, and I have it on toast in the morning.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my God. Breakstone. What is your favorite snack food?
Bobbi Brown:
Either peanuts, or I m obsessed with this one protein powder. All of my years, I finally found one that actually tastes delicious, and it's got coconut milk in it, so all you do is put water in it. I drank it, I got my 25 grams of protein, and it's delicious. FlavCity. I have the chocolate banana and I have the strawberry, and it tastes like ice cream. I've tried every protein powder. It's delicious.
Kerry Diamond:
And what do you mix it with?
Bobbi Brown:
Water.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. You and I have very different ideas of what constitutes a snack.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah, but I'm also a little bit, I guess I'm lazy, and I make it in my Vitamix and put all the other stuff in it. Then I've got to clean it out, so I'm like, "No, I'll just mix it up and I'll just get it to do its job."
Kerry Diamond:
You've never steered me wrong before, Bobbi Brown. So, FlavCity. Okay.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
What was your favorite food as a kid?
Bobbi Brown:
Candy. I wasn't allowed candy in the house. So, every time I had money, I would go to the store and buy whatever candy I had money for and eat it before I got home. It was not a good way to raise a daughter. No candy at home, no sweets.
Kerry Diamond:
What are you streaming right now?
Bobbi Brown:
We are watching the Kristen Bell. She's dating a rabbi. I forget the name of it.
Kerry Diamond:
What's it called again? "Nobody Wants This?"
Bobbi Brown:
Yes, exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
What's on your travel list? Where do you want to go next?
Bobbi Brown:
I'm going to Chicago the week after next to do a pop-up at our store there and a speech. And I'm excited because I stay at the Soho House, and that's my favorite hotel, except the Aman, which I stayed for the first time when I went to Greece with my husband. And we're deciding if we're going to go to London for the holidays, or Miami, or Telluride. Knowing my husband, we'll probably go from London to Miami to Telluride.
Kerry Diamond:
That's a lot.
Bobbi Brown:
It's a lot. Nothing's a lot for him, and everything's a lot for me.
Kerry Diamond:
Who are your mentors? I know Leonard Lauder has been a mentor to you over the years. Who else?
Bobbi Brown:
Yes. I mean, honestly, my biggest mentor is my husband. He's been the most incredibly helpful. And Mickey Drexler has always been a mentor to me. I guess I could say Gloria Steinem. It's crazy that I call her a friend. I know it's crazy.
Kerry Diamond:
That's amazing. What have you learned from Gloria?
Bobbi Brown:
I've learned from Gloria so many things. I mean, besides my incredible admiration for everything that she's done for us, I've just learned about how to be really humble, to really not dwell on what you've done and what people think about you, and to just be a good, kind, curious person.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, Bobbi, last question. If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Bobbi Brown:
Wow. That is a really hard one to say, and I would say Jeffrey Zakarian, because he's a great chef. He's also in phenomenal shape, and he could train me in between feeding me.
Kerry Diamond:
You're a very practical person.
Bobbi Brown:
I am. I am. Or Stanley Tucci. I love Stanley Tucci.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that would be fun. Yeah.
Bobbi Brown:
Yes. Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, Bobbi, you have been a mentor to me. I have learned so much from you over the years and really just admire your entire career. When I think about all the people who helped shape Cherry Bombe over the years because I got to observe them, you're definitely one of those folks.
Bobbi Brown:
Thank you so much. I adore you and I'm proud of you. Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. I would love for you to subscribe to Radio Cherry Bombe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave a rating and a review. Anyone you want to hear on an upcoming episode, let me know. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazan is a studio engineer for Newsstand Studios. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Jenna Sadhu, and our editorial coordinator is Sophie Kies. Thanks for listening, everybody. You're the Bombe.