Chef Dawn Burrell:
Rejection sometimes is hard to deal with, but it's also necessary for you to figure out how bad you want something.
V. Spehar:
Hi Bombesquad, you're listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I am your guest host, V. Spehar from TikTok's Under the Desk News, filling in for host Kerry Diamond, who is on vacation. We're coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in heart of New York City. Today's guest is Chef Dawn Burrell, who made it to the top three in the most recent season of Top Chef. Chef Dawn is in New York City today and just walked over from The Today Show. I am so excited to get to her. Let's find out what it was like trying to wow Tom, Padma and Gail during Top Chef Season 18 and what Dawn's game plan was. We'll also talk about her time as an Olympic athlete, competing in Sydney Olympics in the year 2000, and how that focus and discipline helped her in Top Chef. If you haven't watch Season 18 yet, one thing to note, there are spoilers ahead.
Today's show is brought to you by Free People. Don't miss the Cherry Bombe Free People Summer Supper Club featuring food stylist Mariana Velazquez and Chef Tara Thomas. Watch their videos on the Free People YouTube channel to get Mariana and Tara's plant-based recipes and learn their tips and tricks. A little light housekeeping from Cherry Bombe HQ, on August 16th from 6:00 to 8:00 PM, Cherry Bombe is celebrating Julia Child's 109th birthday and their special Julia Child issue. Join the team at The Bungalow at Brookfield Place in Manhattan for birthday cake, sprinkles cupcakes and a special pop-up shop. The event is free but you do need to RSVP, so visit cherrybombe.com for more.
V. Spehar:
Now here's my interview with Chef Dawn Burrell. So, chef Dawn thank you for being here. I am so excited to get to know you a little bit better.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Thanks for having me. I'm really excited. Let's do it.
V. Spehar:
All right, so we're going to start off at the beginning, and we're going to go through the journey of what has been your life for the last decade or so. No breaks, right?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
No, whatever.
V. Spehar:
Tell me first, what was it like growing up Philly?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Growing in Philly, when you're a child, you don't really know what's happening in your family life. I enjoyed being in a city that's kind of densely populated and row homes and things like that and you don't really recognize that you're poor always, or that these are not row homes, maybe they're the project. So, my life was really fun. I'd got outside and play all day with my friends and things like that.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I come from a household with a single parent. My mother was a single parent of five. I am the youngest and she just made it happen for us always. Sometimes we have to split up, sometimes we didn't. I always found it to be fun somehow, but there were true trials that I can reflect on now that I'm adult. I can say that it was good. Life was good.
V. Spehar:
Were you cooking as a kid?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I was. Sometimes when I was staying with my cousin, I would sneak and make candy and things like that, things that children should not be doing. I had a really major sweet tooth as a child, so I would just heat up some maple, and some sugar, and put some flavoring in it and then put it in the freezer and I have my own candy, right? I was like, "Oh," one time I burned my finger. Yes I dripped some of that, that molten hot lava on my finger and I could not stop crying but I had to hide it.
V. Spehar:
Of course.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Because I wasn't supposed to be doing it in the first place.
V. Spehar:
Right. We share that. I also grew up not knowing if we were rich, if we were poor what it was. I similarly also started off cooking very young. I think it's such an interesting thing that happens when you have that latchkey kid freedom.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. Instead, you start doing stuff.
V. Spehar:
Were you taking care of your sibling?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. They were taking of me because I was the baby.
V. Spehar:
I'm the oldest, yes, we were taking care of you.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
They were taking care of me, or my neighbor would be doing that. I had some great neighbors. We would bake cookies, and pies, and things like that. People around me that would nurture that thing that I loved that I didn't really know why. I thought it was still, "Oh, I really want to eat something sweet." But really it was something I was fascinated about as a child.
V. Spehar:
Yes. That creativity outlet.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. And food was important, so yes.
V. Spehar:
What fuels a high school track start? Because you started very early with your career in track and field. What was that borne out of?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
It's regional, right?
V. Spehar:
Mm-hmm.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
In Texas, they have those little babies from five and six years old running around that track. I'm like, "Oh, they're too young."
V. Spehar:
Yes.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
They're going to burn out too quickly. But in the Philadelphia area, you don't normally start until you're 13, or 14. My case, I ran one year in seventh grade, then I took eighth and ninth grade years off, and continued on my 10th grade year. It was only because I was a huge basketball fanatic. I loved it. I wasn't very good at it, but I still liked it. My brother told me that track and field would be a better choice for me as far as sports are concerned. He really convinced me to do it. I remember it was a grocery store walk that we were taking and he like, "I'm telling you Dawn, you'll be so amazing at it. You just have to give it a try. I know basketball, you love it, but I think you need to run."
V. Spehar:
Was this Leroy the big brother?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
This is Leroy, yes. He was right. I listened to him for once in my life. He's my brother closest in age, and he's the one who helped me get back on the right track as far as sports are concerned.
V. Spehar:
He was in track as well at this time, yes?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. I think that we had this conversation when he was a sophomore in University of Houston. He found pleasure in it, he found success in the sport early on. He knew that I could do the same thing if I applied myself.
V. Spehar:
And you sure did.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
And I did.
V. Spehar:
Yes. Let's talk about the Olympics, and the long jump.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
What drew you to long jump?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I always long jumped, that was my first event actually when I started competing outside of middle school or junior high school in my region. I ventured out from long jump to other sports. From long jump I competed in the hurdles, in 100, and 200 meters. There was just something about it that not only that I loved, but I was good at almost immediately. I was always a little person just running around, jumping off of everything. I enjoyed taking flight, and just being free in the air. I think that that's why I developed well within that event more than anything.
V. Spehar:
It gives a whole new meaning to Philadelphia eagle, right?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
There you go, yes.
V. Spehar:
We're flying. I love that. Obviously, Olympics are on right now, and you're looking back on your career and also what's going on with the athletes now. How do you think the games have changed over the last 20 years?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
The effort that the athletes put in, I mean, it's the same. Of course, there are new modern developments, and training systems as you better understand your body, or those that are training people better understand how to get the most out of an athlete. I think that they're able to accomplish a little bit more, I see that some of the times are better, some of the distances are a little bit better.
This is a very successful year for track and field. There were lots of records broken. I think it's great, it shows progress. If we're not progressing as a sport through history, people progress faster once technology gets into the equation, with new sports, and new clothes, and different things like that, they will increase your time in surfaces that you run on.
V. Spehar:
All that's changed.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
All of that has changed. There are more modern surfaces to run and compete on now than there were 20 years ago, which is amazing.
V. Spehar:
I never thought of that. That you're actually running on different technology as well.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Exactly you're running in it, and on it.
V. Spehar:
And it shoos the whole thing. The whole thing is different.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. All of these add to performance enhancing, as well as modern takes on what you get out of an athlete, how you train an athlete to make sure they're at best shape without injury. One of the most impactful things is social media now. It's amazing for athletes.
V. Spehar:
Yes.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I mean, our worlds were so different between 2020 and now. You have a direct line to your fan base, which is great for the athlete, because you don't ever really know how many people are actually out there rooting for you. I think that this is, I'm sure it has to feel good for the athletes right now.
V. Spehar:
Absolutely. People are so much more accessible, which allows other people to even know these sports exist, so they can get interested themselves in taking that part.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Exactly. You can share your full life as well. Your practices, how hard you work.
V. Spehar:
Right.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Which builds appreciation for your fan base.
V. Spehar:
Of course. There's been a lot of talk in the news about the pressure, especially on a national stage with sponsors, like you said the social media, the 24 hour news coverage, never mind it's happening during a pandemic. How did you prepare yourself at that time for the pressure of competing in front of a national audience? When you're at the Olympics, are you really conscious of people watching? Or are you just laser focused on your craft?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I would say as you're entering the stadium, and as you're warming up you do feel the crowd, and the people watching you. But when it's your time to compete you're normally focused in, and zoned in on what you're doing. That moment that you worked for for four years, or eight years, or whatever it is. That moment is yours, and you have to make the most out of it, so you're there with that. I mean, pressure is very real, and we've all dealt with it, and we all deal with it very differently, and it's your own to bear.
V. Spehar:
Right.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
So, you can't really speak on how much pressure that someone should feel in a situation? Especially if you've never experienced anything like it.
V. Spehar:
Right. Folks have said this year that not having the crowd actually contributed to even more pressure, or more feeling alone, or like, you can't see who is there for you. You just hear what's going on, and the noise in the background. How do you think that's affecting people's performance not having the crowd and that energy coming at you?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
To crowds energy is very real. You can pull your motivation from somewhere else. It depends with how mentally strong you are, and how mentally you're prepared for that moment, and how much you rely on the energy of the crowd. All of these things are very, very individual takes on your own experience in that moment. The next person to and be like, "Oh great. I'm so great, they're not here. I'm about to kill this race."
You could be like, "Oh man, I really needed that extra energy boost from the crowd." It just depends on who you are as an athlete, and how you deal with every moment. For me, I would know that I prepared for this moment, and whether they're watching or not, right now, right here this is me-
V. Spehar:
This is you.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
This is my chance.
V. Spehar:
So, both your brother Leroy, and his wife gold medal Olympians?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
Their son, also getting into track.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
And breaking records in the high school going crazy.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
What is it like as a family? Are you competing with each other? Do you guys race each other? Is it just a family thing?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
It's a family thing.
V. Spehar:
Nice.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
We support each other. In part I would not have been the athlete that I was if it wasn't for my brother. I had this endless support, along with Michelle, during that time period. And encouragement from someone who has actually gone through it. My brother is also a two-time former world record holder. I don't know if you know that yet.
V. Spehar:
Yes.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
He was one of the elite sprinters in the most glamorous event on the track. His pressure was very specific. He was on the upper echelon of track and field athletes so to speak. So it was really nice to have that type of encouragement and advice… my family.
V. Spehar:
I can tell you're so proud of them.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I am. I'm proud of Cameron too. Cameron suffered from a lot of injury, my nephew. He is an elite athlete. He is so laser focused on what he's doing athletically. He had some mental recovery to go through, because he was not able to compete in the trials. But there is another Olympic coming in three years.
V. Spehar:
He'll be ready.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
So, he'll be ready for it. He'll be more mature, he'll be in shape, he will be healthy. I really believe that he is going to do something really big then. So, I'm looking forward to it.
V. Spehar:
We'll be rooting for him for sure.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
This is a food pod, so I have to ask, how is the food at the Olympics? Was it good? Do you cook for yourself out there?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
No.
V. Spehar:
Is it just almonds? What's the food like?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
There is a wealth of food in the Olympic Village. There is everything that you can ever imagine that you want to eat 24 hours a day, and it's really beautiful. It's nice to have. I was a young athlete, I was like, "Oh, I'm going to get a little bit of this. Maybe some fish here, some shrimp, some lobster." I want that McDonald's this evening. That's what I want, and I hate to admit, I'm sorry, but I don't eat it anymore.
V. Spehar:
First of all, you know why they sell so many hamburgers, it's delicious. I'm not here to shame the McDonald's for it.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Right. Exactly. Then just to have it all day, every day it was pretty awesome. Especially if you're a young athlete. It's just a dream come true food-wise.
V. Spehar:
Yes.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
It was good. It was nourishing. As an athlete in that system, and I'm there, I have to think about what I'm eating, what I need to do next in order to perform. So I wouldn't always indulge, I would plan my meals. It was not a free for all for me, but it's definitely nice to have all those things in my disposals.
V. Spehar:
But they have everything.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
They had everything.
V. Spehar:
That sounds awesome. I'm always so interested in what's going on with the food behind the scenes and things.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. One time I aspire to be a chief, because they hire a chef. And I was like, "Maybe I want to do that one day. Maybe for a week, do some kind of elite chef's table for some sport." I would like to feed my own sport of course, but we'll see-
V. Spehar:
That'd be pretty cool.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
If I can make that happen.
V. Spehar:
Going back to the Olympics, but as the chef this time.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
That'd be fantastic, especially if you got to feed the track and field folks. That would be such a unique full circle moment.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Right.
V. Spehar:
I'm sure they'd be glad to have you.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. We'll see.
V. Spehar:
Whoever is listening from the Olympics, make it happen.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
It could happen.
V. Spehar:
Speaking of making it happen, the Olympics, an accomplishment all on its own. Not enough, now we're also going to be on Top Chef, the most beloved food competition show on TV, probably in the last decade. Right?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
Tell me about Top Chef, and start me maybe at your audition. You had a moment one day where you were like, "You know what? I'm going to try out." What was that like?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Well, honestly, I started my application process well before I was ready. This is how badly I wanted to be on the show. I knew that one day I was going to make it, and they were going to say yes. I practiced everything, I'm going to practice interviewing, I'm going to practice filling out this application 100%. I'm going through this process, I'm going to figure out more about myself through all the questions that they ask. It was a work in progress. I think I applied like four times.
V. Spehar:
You have to be persistent.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. I have to be persistent. It was also for practice for me. I mean, because I knew, I did not want to necessarily be on the show at that time period that I was, but I was applying the first, and second time, but I knew that eventually they would say yes, and eventually I'd be ready. So they came together … moment.
V. Spehar:
I think that's such great, and important advice, because there are so many folks now looking to move from the kitchen to in front of the cameras, who maybe didn't have experience as a chief in a kitchen, but are an excellent home cook, or a professional chef, or a caterer, and they're wanting to move in front of the camera. It's good to hear you can expect to audition several times, and we have to be persistent.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. Definitely don't give up on your first no, or your second no, not even your third. You have to figure out within yourself how bad you really want it. Rejection sometimes is hard to deal with, but it's also necessary for you to figure out how bad you want something.
V. Spehar:
Is there any advice you have for chefs out there who are preparing to hit the culinary media audition circuit?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I would say know who you are as a chef, and to make sure that you're cooking your food. Make sure that your skillset is going to be competitive. Those are the three important things that I would say. Make sure you challenge yourself also to-
V. Spehar:
Because they're going to get you on the technicality.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
They're going to get you.
V. Spehar:
They're going to get you. You're quarantined essentially, not just because of the pandemic, but you guys are segregated out alone. Is this one of the ones where you have yourself, or need support, or you're just there with your crew?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
You're there in the bubble-
V. Spehar:
In the bubble.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
But you're cooking off the top of your head, and you are challenged physically, and mentally to create these dishes on the fly. I'm made for competition. Like it or love it, that's who I am, and I embrace it fully. I'm not searching for anything, for validation, it's just I really like the heat of it, and the adrenaline that I get from competition. You just have to make sure as a person you're able to embrace those moments, and dig deep even when you're tired mentally and physically to get the job done. That's really what Top Chef was about. You also meet great people.
V. Spehar:
Of course.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
That's also another part of it. I don't want to make it seem like, wake up and cook. It is kind of like that, but it's also you get to meet great people.
V. Spehar:
Yes. You're there to do a job. Something that you said was, know your food. Did you find that you had to tailor any of your food to fit the judge's preferences for the show?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
No.
V. Spehar:
Never?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Never.
V. Spehar:
Because they said, "Don't do Indian for Padma." But you were like, "I'm doing me all the way through."
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. Absolutely. If that was my style of cooking, and my natural thing that I gravitated toward, I would absolutely do Indian for Padma. Because if it's part of me, or I've made it part of me, whether through culture, or studying it, I wouldn't be afraid to present it, because I really believe in what it that I'm serving. You have to sit behind your food like that. Believe it with all of your heart and soul. Make sure that you put yourself on that plate, so it's undeniable.
V. Spehar:
Right. You live and die by it. If you get Top Chef for that week, awesome, if you didn't, it was still your food. That's the important part.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. That's exactly it.
V. Spehar:
Because folks at home are going to remember you for, if you cooked somebody food and that's why you went out, they're going to be sad.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. I mean, they're going to be sad, and also if there is something that's not quite authentic about cooking something that's outside of what you've honed, or what you've nurtured along the way. The audience can tell, not even judges, maybe the people at home can tell as well.
V. Spehar:
Yes. Because they fall in love with you too, they're tuning in every week for the dishes, but also for that person. There are so many different type of personalities on a show that make it such an eclectic, and wonderful program. You said that this season is more reflective of real kitchens, because of the diversity, not just in the cast of Season 18, but also in the challenges, which challenge was most meaningful to you?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
There were several, but I mean, not just because I wanted, but the African Diasporan Challenge was really amazing. It was the first time that the food of the diaspora was brought on that stage, and up to that caliber, all for the world to see. It was a great moment for me. That was by far my favorite.
V. Spehar:
Walk me through the making your dish for that particular episode. You heard that this was going to be the challenge?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
Then what started going through your mind?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I knew that I was going to make something jerk, or madras curry. Those are my two dishes that I really love. I think they're just soothing to the soul for me. I was like, "These are the things that I want to make. I know automatically." Then we were scrambling, and getting our proteins. I did not get the protein that I wanted. Someone else grabbed it.
V. Spehar:
You had to pivot.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes, pivot. I think it was Maria. Maria took all the oxtails.
V. Spehar:
How could she?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I was going to make an oxtail curry, something like that. I was like, "You know what? I'm not going to let it disturb me." In fact, when she grabbed it, I just stood back and let them just go crazy over the proteins.
V. Spehar:
I remember.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
And I was like, "Okay, what's left?" I was like, "Goat." I was like, "Perfect. And it's cut up."
V. Spehar:
There you go.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I'm there. That's how I landed on that particular dish.
V. Spehar:
Yes, and that was the dish that won.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. Because you can go in with a plan on Top Chef, and you have to completely pivot, because something happened, or something wasn't there, or someone ... I'm going to say stole your protein.
V. Spehar:
When you're present in these challenges, it is that calculation that you're making that you would make as an athlete, or as any architect even. How important is it to be present when you're getting these challenges? Or when you're cooking this food with all the cameras and the heat, and everything else going on? How do you keep your mentality?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I think that it's just important to focus on what everyone is saying, focus on the challenge, make plans for what it is that you're going to do, and you have to be able to adapt easily. For all of that you have to be able to endure the stress of the moment, is what I'd have to say. I think that you have to be nimble. I always said that word.
V. Spehar:
You got to be nimble, I love it.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
You have to be nimble, yes.
V. Spehar:
Do you think that cooking for yourself growing up, and doing a mix of what's available to you helped you? Did that mentality help you in Top Chef of being able to adapt so nimbly?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. I think so, I mean, cooking for yourself helps.
V. Spehar:
Sure.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I mean, never all of it, honestly. People who cook at home you look in the refrigerator, it's what you have. I don't have this thing, but I have this other thing. It'll do just fine, and my meal is going to be great.
V. Spehar:
Yes. Be playful.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Be playful, and that's what it's about. You have to be very flexible. That is actually what Top Chef requires. Flexibility in your cooking equipment, flexibility with your partner they may assign you with. Two, flexibility in how you have to shop for your ingredients in the moment, because that always changed to flexibility with what you're able to use. Because sometimes, in one challenge they were like, "Oh, we have a surprise, and you only can choose one aromatic to use." I could either use shallots, onions, or garlic, but not all of them.
V. Spehar:
Not all?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Just one. What do I choose? Because this one had shallots, garlic, and onions in it. Now, which one do I want? That's the challenge, and you just meet it.
V. Spehar:
Just staying playful, staying nimble.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Just staying playful, exactly.
V. Spehar:
Persistent, and knowing your food.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
Who was your Top Chef bestie?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Jaime.
V. Spehar:
I know, Jaime, absolutely.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Jaime is my bestie.
V. Spehar:
Tell me about Jamie, what helped you and Jamie get through?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Jamie is fun, she's lighthearted, she's always on. So you don't really know what's going, and how calculative she is, but she is extremely calculative. She is an excellent cook, and she's a really good friend. I'm happy that I met her through the show. She is so cool.
V. Spehar:
Did you have a favorite judge?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I like them all. I spent the most time with Tom, because he works the floor, and he speaks with us. He's really encouraging, so I had some really meaningful moments with him. Gail, and Pamela were both encouraging after we wrapped. Yes. I think that they were all really fun.
V. Spehar:
Did Tom sing for you ever? I know he loves to play guitar, and sing.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
He did not sing for us.
V. Spehar:
He did not?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
He did not sing for us.
V. Spehar:
He denied you his vocal stylings.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. I wasn't aware of that, it's such a talent that he has.
V. Spehar:
He's a six string bandit, getting hot. Maybe next time, maybe for All Stars.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I'm going to have search that. I want to see a video of that.
V. Spehar:
He performed on Radio Cherry Bombe's Talent Show.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Awesome.
V. Spehar:
It was a performance I shall never forget, myself. So, you have also said about your cooking that rice is life. I heard about this in another interview, and I've been thinking about it ever since. Tell me about the importance of rice in your food.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
There are two tastes. When I was working at U Chiang, the Japanese chef there would always say, "Rice is life." I morphed it since then into rice is culture, because there are so many cultures that rely on rice to feed their people. There are communities that, it is cultural. To have a grain be so important in asian countries, and then over in African countries, and then down in South America, you have to think more about this grain, and the migration of it.
I mean, even in southern culture right now, people eat rice with everything, and for almost every meal. In my studies I'm just delving deeper into the importance of this grain, and how it traveled, and why certain strands died out, and things like that. That's my in-depth perception of how important rice is, but it's also a very versatile grain. You can do lots of things with it. You can manipulate it into being crackers, bread, desserts.
V. Spehar:
Right.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
A side dish, a main dish. It's one of those things that people don't think about how important it is. What would we do in life without rice right now?
V. Spehar:
Yes. We don't think about it as much. If you were to make just the quintessential Chef Dawn dish, something that maybe Top Chef fans at home didn't get to see.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I had one time a beautiful scallop dumpling, and that was made Lapsang, the Chinese sausage, and Nori butter. That dish is complex, it's hearty. I think that that's one dish that I would like to share with people that I did not get a chance to share on the show.
V. Spehar:
Yes. The complex, hearty, beautiful scallop dish. I dig it.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
That brings me to what you're working on now. You've got a restaurant opening very soon in Houston.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. The restaurant that Chef Chris Williams, and I are opening, it's called Late August, it will open later this year, or very early next year. It is named Late August, because it is opening in a historic SEARS building.
V. Spehar:
Cool.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Late August pays so much to the catalog when it would come out, and you were born in the '70s, '80s, you know that it would come out right before school started, and also advertising things for the holiday season that you want as a gift. It speaks to the nostalgia of that moment.
V. Spehar:
Yes.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
As a kid, you'd love that catalog, and you're laying on your stomach on the floor leafing through it, and dogging your pages for your parents to see. That's pretty much what the name means for us.
V. Spehar:
What a clever name? I love that. I just got that feeling now just even hearing it, of that both what you were going to get, and what you're dreaming of getting someday, right?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Exactly.
V. Spehar:
That's incredible. Can you share with us any of the food you're thinking of cooking for this, or cuisine?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. It will be global comfort food, which touches on the African diaspora, and also the intersection between the asian and African cultures, where there are some similarities where they lie.
V. Spehar:
So we're going to see some rice?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
We'll see some rice.
V. Spehar:
Okay. We'll see lots of rice, and rice manipulation. We'll see sauces like Cheeto, and we'll see animal skins.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
Talk about that.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I'm going to play a little bit with animal skins that are not normally eaten by Americans, but all other cultures. Africans, Malaysians eat beast skin for example. So, I'm going to play with manipulating that, and puffing it, and making Chicharrones out of beef skin, and lamb skin, and things like that, just snacky things.
V. Spehar:
That is cool.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Snacks.
V. Spehar:
Snacky things, yes. I love that. I saw you on your Instagram making some puffed, I think it was Chicharrones, or just … skins.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. Those were made out of rice.
V. Spehar:
They were?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
Very cool. I'm excited about that. This sounds like stuff that we've not had on a restaurant menu yet.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
No.
V. Spehar:
When you think you've run out of food there is always somebody else creative coming along.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I'm looking for other things, and I'm pretty simple. Right?
V. Spehar:
Yes.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I like to take a simple concept, and just figure out a different way that I can make it an ingredient that I can create something crunchy for example out of. What can that be? I search for that.
V. Spehar:
One of my favorite parts of opening restaurants was the smallwares order. Have you thought about your late August catalog of smallwares, and what you're going to order?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. I mean, the list is almost ... It's the best one.
V. Spehar:
It's the best, least talked about part of opening restaurants ordering ramekins.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. Exactly. I'm planning a couple of meetings when I get back to Houston just to go over that. But I have to first complete something on the menu first before I can visit there to make sure I have everything covered.
V. Spehar:
That's a good chef who picks the menu before the vessel.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. I know. Like you can't follow up about a vessel, and you don't have anything to put in it.
V. Spehar:
I know.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Then you just have a vessel.
V. Spehar:
No. So that was in front of the house. Because it was like, "Chef, look at this beautiful vessel." And you're like-
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I mean, don't get me wrong. I have a tendency to do that.
V. Spehar:
I know.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
But this is me talking to myself, you cannot pick that vessel if you don't have anything.
V. Spehar:
Yes. There are just so many beautiful things in a restaurant to think about. The glassware, the vessel for the dish, the forks, the knives, everything that's going to come together with that food, and all those different pillars are so important in the restaurant. It's such an exciting part.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Right.
V. Spehar:
I am just thrilled, because I can see you lighting up right now. This is going to be Late August as soon as it opens, Houston, Texas. Get there. If I know I feel like you're going to change the menu quite a bit too, so we got to come multiple times.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I'm going to intentionally change it, because we're going to be very seasonal.
V. Spehar:
Great.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
We will afford ourselves the opportunity to do so, by also growing our own product.
V. Spehar:
Let's talk about Lucille's project 1913. You've distributed 300,000 meals to folks in need in your community. Now there is a program on pickling, and preserving, and reducing waste. Talk to me about that. Talk to me about Lucille's Project 1913.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Lucille's 1913 is a nonprofit that was built and established by Chris Williams and is under Lucille's Hospitality Group. It is run by chef Lawrence Walker, and his supporting team. I am just so proud of the work we're doing right now. As you say, we've been able to provide over 300,000 meals for communities in need.
We are working our way toward becoming a zero-waste entity by creating a pipeline for our overages. I established a fermentation lab under the umbrella, and we're going to take the ingredients that we grow from our farmland, and designate them to the fermentation lab. Then we're also going to take our overages, and pickle them, and ferment them, and give them back to communities in a more shelf-stable way.
V. Spehar:
I think it's something the guests would love to know more about too. I worked at this restaurant once that used to take the bar fruit that didn't get used, and they'd make citrus sardines. People love those stories. It's so exciting that you're going to be able to do this fermenting and canning thing, which is becoming a lost art, but now folks like you are really bringing it to the forefront again.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Exactly. I mean, it's just a way to not only minimize waste, but to either capture foods in season at their prime, or give people a more shelf-stable way of eating a product that you'd like to help them with by meeting a need which is give them some food. You take away a person's opportunity to get food, and you take away a lot of confidence.
V. Spehar:
Confidence.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
In the society-
V. Spehar:
Happiness, the ability to do anything else, employment suffers, infant mortality suffers. We could get real dark.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. We can go there, but yes. We're looking to change this. It's more implemented at time ... Of course there are learning curves. We have to make sure that we tell the people how to use things that we're growing for them.
V. Spehar:
Right.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Then, we have to meet them where they are, and give them things that they know how to eat, and want to eat.
V. Spehar:
Right.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
But we will be working toward that in our plan. With that being said we have about three acres of farmland that we'll be devoted to late August.
V. Spehar:
That's great.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I'll be to grow all my special little things that I would like to grow, like the little peppers, and bean legumes, and those cute little vegetables.
V. Spehar:
I love it. Cute little vegetables and animal skins', right?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
All the beauty.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes, and all the things.
V. Spehar:
Gold dripping in opulence. I love it.
V. Spehar:
In other super exciting news, when I was preparing for this interview, I was like, "Oh my gosh, we have like 17 different categories of things that you're trying to do at one time, and you're doing them all so well. You recently semifinalist for the James Beard Awards, and you have some news about a dinner coming up that you're going to be working on?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Chef Chris and I will be hosting the James Beard Award in TEXFest. It's the only one in the state I believe. We're serving as our regional representatives. I think it's great. It's going to be fun.
V. Spehar:
People can tune in to watch that live. It will be live on their Twitter channel, September 27th. You can follow James Beard's Twitter @BeardFoundation if you want to check out the Houston show, and see what's going on September 27th.
V. Spehar:
Outside of the awards, and the restaurants, and the community work that you're doing, where do you see yourself in the future? Just you as the person, what do you see coming for you? We can define ourselves so much by our work-
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Some rest.
V. Spehar:
Some rest?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I would love some rest. I mean, it's not an easy thing for me to say.
V. Spehar:
Of course, not.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
But I've also learned through wisdom that a rested body is a better functioning body, and a rested mind is better functioning. I just need to make that more of a priority, and that time will come.
V. Spehar:
I love that answer. Honestly, I ask everyone I interview that question, and their answer is always rest. It's the thing that we want the most, and we identify the most with success means now I can rest, and so many folks don't take it. So, you got to take that rest on.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
You do. I think that once you get to a certain point in your life you can schedule your rest better.
V. Spehar:
Yes. That's a good way to put it.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. I think that, not that we ever want to, because we are go getters, and we want to do the very next thing that's on our list of things to do, but I hope to be able to balance my life a little bit more.
V. Spehar:
That's another question I had for you was about vision haze. As a food entrepreneur, and a leader in the culinary industry you are the high of your game, everybody wants a piece of you. How do you keep from getting vision haze? When do you know it's time to say no?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I don't.
V. Spehar:
You don't?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. I don't.
V. Spehar:
Next question.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
No, I don't. I was like, "What is vision haze? I don't know." I don't, because I'm one of those people that will try to always say yes. I don't get no, or fully understand the power of no. But I will educate myself, and then maybe you can ask me this in six months, and I'll have a better answer for you.
V. Spehar:
Perfect. I will. As the restaurant industry is building back better, and we're understanding ... And I think there is so much more power in the restaurant industry to train the guest on what we expect from them as a guest now, and to say, "This is the food that I cook. Remember how you all had to cook it for yourself for 18 months." I don't think we want to do that unless we have all this power to really make it the industry that we want to.
How do you believe the industry can narrow the gap on racial equity which seems to still be something that is so outstanding, and was exasperated by the pandemic?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
We can start by our own systems that we develop within our entities, and we can make sure that we're doing what we need to do underneath our own rules, and to make sure that people know what's right, and what's wrong, and how people should be treated. I think that we set our culture, our own rules in our respective restaurants. As long as we're doing the right thing in the building it will be something that can permeate the building.
V. Spehar:
That makes sense.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
But until we fix what we're doing inside, I don't know that there is a possibility, but there is definitely hope when we can do that.
V. Spehar:
Starting with your house.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
Then your neighbors, your guests-
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Exactly.
V. Spehar:
The people coming to your house.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
Then maybe they'll tell people who come to their house the same and building it out organically from that way.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Right. That's true change. I think that will wind up to true change.
V. Spehar:
All right chef, here we go. We're going to go into the speed round.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Okay.
V. Spehar:
What food trends do you wish would just end?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Foams.
V. Spehar:
Foams?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
Absolutely. What is the most underappreciated spice the in pantry?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
All spice.
V. Spehar:
All spice?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
Do you cook at home?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
Yes?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes, I do. Like two, three times a week.
V. Spehar:
Great. What is the most requested dish from your family?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
A crab boil.
V. Spehar:
A crab boil?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
I don't doubt that. I bet your crab oil is killer, killer. Is there anything you won't eat?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I don't like dale.
V. Spehar:
Dale?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes.
V. Spehar:
Dump the dale?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Dump the dale.
V. Spehar:
Absolutely.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
And I feel bad, because I know it has a place in this world, it's just not on my plate.
V. Spehar:
It's not on your plate?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. I feel that. If you could have dinner with one person, dead or alive, who would it be?
V. Spehar:
Just one?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Just one. How about two?
V. Spehar:
Two. Okay.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Edna Lewis, and Anthony Bourdain.
V. Spehar:
Those are good ones, absolutely, Ms. Lewis. Is there a dish from your past that you wish you could eat just one more time?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Yes. I used to have dinners with my coach. They used to have a restaurant. They were mandarin. She used to make this crazy delicious raw potato salad that was mind blowing. I know the vinegar made it the way that it was, but I've tried several times recreate it, and failed horribly. I would say that specific dish, and then all the other dishes that she made for me were life changing for me.
V. Spehar:
Those sound good. Is a hotdog a sandwich, or no?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
You know what? I don't want to say yes, but-
V. Spehar:
It kind of is.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
But it kind of is. If you think about a cheesesteak in the form of a cheesesteak, and you call it a sandwich. The beef is in the bun, like the hotdog is in the bun.
V. Spehar:
You heard it here first, a hotdog is a sandwich. What are you listening to right now? What kind of music do you have on?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I am heavily engulfed in Anderson Paak right now.
V. Spehar:
Nice.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I just can't seem to let it go. There is lots to listen to, but he's my go to right now.
V. Spehar:
I love that. Any books, or movies, podcasts?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I love this one-
V. Spehar:
Of course.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I love “Opening Soon,” and “Gravy.”
V. Spehar:
Yes.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
All of those are really nice podcasts. I have a couple of books, but right now in my bag I think I have The Aquamist.
V. Spehar:
Very cool. Interesting.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I'm all over the place.
V. Spehar:
All over the place. I want to give you a chance to shout out anyone that we didn't get. We only had this quick hour, is there anyone that you want to shout out that we didn't get to talking about today that's doing great work that you want to bring attention to?
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Just the team at home. It takes all of us to do what we do. Thank Chef Chris, Robbie, E.J Kane, Reuben, Lawrence, and our publicist Jalan, and Aman, Jamie, you know I love you, great job.
V. Spehar:
Top Chef best.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Great to have a chef bestie. Her food is amazing. I don't know if you know, but I went to The Black Sheep to work with her a few weeks ago. It was really fun to work along with her again.
V. Spehar:
I bet.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
And the burns prove it.
V. Spehar:
Yes, you do. It's full circle, we're back to the candy burns of childhood, they never go away.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
I'm seeing. They never go away. And it's okay, you do what you love, and I did it then too. I make candy after I burn myself.
V. Spehar:
Yes. Persistence.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
It just happens. That's what it is. And then just my family, thank you for all your support. Let's go, we have a lot of work to do.
V. Spehar:
Absolutely. It has been such a pleasure chatting with you, Dawn. I'm just holding back my fan girl this whole interview.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Good.
V. Spehar:
I loved watching you on Top Chef. You could see the way that you were thinking, and it just made the show move along so quickly with such energy. It wasn't a loud energy, but it was a powerful energy. I think that is such a great example as I said for some of the chefs who aren't trying to be flashy out-front crazy guy all the time. You can just be strong, and persistent, and also the fan favorite, and the best. I appreciate you so much for being here.
Chef Dawn Burrell:
Thank you so much. That's a great compliment. I really appreciate that. Thank you.
V. Spehar:
Yes. Of course.
Thank you so much to Top Chef finalist Chef Dawn Burrell. If you didn't catch Season 18, visit bravo.com. Something that I loved hearing about was how good the food in the Olympic village is.
I also can't wait to check out Late August, and learn more about Lucille's Project 1913. Thank you to Free People for supporting today show. Don't miss the Cherry Bombe and Free People Summer Supper Club. Head to cherrybombe.com, or freepeople.com to learn more.
I had a blast filling in for Kerry today, meeting Chef Dawn and the crew here. You can find me at Under the Desk News on TikTok and Instagram, Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of Cherry Bombe Magazine. Want some more Cherry Bombe in your life? Sign up for our newsletter at cherrybombe.com. Love this episode? You can find Radio Cherry Bombe interviews with our other top chefs, including Padma Lakshmi, and Melissa King, wherever you get your podcasts.
Radio Cherry Bombe is recorded at Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in New York City. Thank you to Joe Hazan, studio engineer for Newsstand Studios, and to our assistant producer, Jenna Sadhu. Thanks for listening everybody. You're the bombe.
Harry From When Harry Met Sally:
I'll have what she's having.