Jennifer Fisher Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine.
On today's show, I'm talking with Jennifer Fisher, the jewelry designer known for her modern take on accessories like her wildly popular hoop earrings. Jennifer is here today because she has a whole food life you might not know about. She has a line of salts and will be expanding into other pantry items. Some of you might've even seen her at The Fancy Food Show this summer. She has a fun food Instagram under the @JenniferFisherKitchen handle and is always sharing recipes and her healthy snack runs at Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. Jennifer also has a CB2 collab and she's working on her very first cookbook. She is quite the Renaissance woman. Our interview was recorded at Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in New York City. Stay tuned.
Some housekeeping for you. We have a date for next year's Jubilee Conference in New York City. It is taking place Saturday, April 12th, at the Glass House in Manhattan. Early bird tickets go on sale today, Monday at noon on cherrybombe.com. I'll be sharing more about Jubilee in the weeks ahead, but we would love to see you. We're also hosting Jubilee Wine Country this October 26th and 27th in Calistoga, California at the beautiful Solage Resort. Join me, keynote speakers Dominique Crenn, Jeni Britton, Tanya Holland, and lots of other folks for a fun weekend. Get tickets and more details at cherrybombe.com.
Now let's check in with Jennifer. Jennifer Fisher, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe. I'm so excited that you are here, especially because you are shooting a cookbook next week and it's really hard to shoot a cookbook. You're not freaking out?
Jennifer Fisher:
It's weird, I'm not. I've been cooking all of my very basic food on Instagram for my followers and community on @JenniferFisherKitchen since COVID and so a lot of them are done, so we're just testing them. I'm more excited about the creative part of it because we're going through the creative right now and I really don't want it to look like a cookbook. I want it to feel like a fashion book because I'm not a trained chef, I did not train to be a nutrition ... I don't claim to be a specialist or an expert in anything. I just hack my way through it and make it work for my family. So I'm excited about the creative part of it. I can't wait.
Kerry Diamond:
I love the idea of it not looking like a cookbook and that's not a sleight, everybody. I have a cookbook. I know a lot of you have cookbooks, but a lot of cookbooks do look the same and it's so much fun when you get a cookbook that feels really new and fresh.
Jennifer Fisher:
I agree and I've gone through, and through the years, I've purged my cookbooks. I'm being very specific about it. Every recipe is going to have a photo. I'm just super specific about the way I like to look at food and the way that I feel inspired to make a recipe. And since my recipes are so simple, I want everything to have a specific photo and I want it to look like a coffee table book. I work in fashion, I'm a fashion girl, so it should feel that way and no sleight against anyone who does cookbooks because they're incredibly important, but I just want mine to look a little different.
Kerry Diamond:
A lot of folks know you solely as a designer, Jennifer Fisher, jewelry, super well known, you're the Queen of Hoops, all those things. Some folks might not know you as @JenniferFisherKitchen or Jennifer Fisher the foodie and the very enthusiastic food creator. Tell us a little bit about the concept of the cookbook.
Jennifer Fisher:
The food itself and the cookbook itself, really it's just going to be about how to get by for me. I'm a working mom, I've got two kids. It's, "How do I cook food that's healthy?" Well, first and foremost, I have Hashimoto's. I went through chemotherapy also when I was 30 years old. I've had health issues during my life and I've struggled with inflammation and brain fog and lots of different issues with my health. And so I read Will Cole Ketotarian. I had tried to read some of those other books and it was harder for me to get through, but during COVID when I had to quarantine, I opened my Beverly Hills store and you had to quarantine for 10 days going back and forth and so I bought a bunch of books and Ketotarian was one of the books that I was mesmerized by it. It was interesting.
I always wanted to feel better and I would look for doctors for nutrition because I was always fighting with my brain fog and my Hashimoto's, but there was something about Will's book that was pretty simple, "Remove dairy, seed oils." And it was the first of all of that that I had heard about removing those things from your, I hate saying the word diet, but your regimen of cooking. It was kind of extraordinary what happened when I made some simple changes and I never want to call it a diet or a lifestyle, but it's just making better food choices. That's it. Eating cleaner, just reading labels and that's what this book is going to be about also. It's going to be all of my list because I've done so much research on what to buy, and a lot of people, there's all these programs that sell these lists that I see on Instagram.
I'm like, "Well, I'm just going to put it all in the book and just tell everybody what I think is really good," because I don't like to gatekeep, I like to tell everybody what it is. A lot of it is products and it's not products filled with garbage or gums and things like that. It's just simple things. You don't realize that some of the things that you love, like my favorite hot sauce had gum in it and I didn't realize it.
Kerry Diamond:
You do need to read labels and you always remind people of that and you are such an anti-gatekeeper. Will it be out next year?
Jennifer Fisher:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
So out in 2025.
Jennifer Fisher:
Out In 2025, yes.
Kerry Diamond:
And then do you have a team or are you doing the food styling or are you just creative directing?
Jennifer Fisher:
I have a team. I have an amazing photographer, which I wanted to tell you too, but it ties back to one of my favorite chefs when I was growing up and the first cookbook that I started to buy was Ina Garten. I'm obsessed with her and I love her and she basically taught me how to cook. Of course, along with Martha Stewart and other people like that that are just legends in my book. That's who I grew up with and those were the first cookbooks that I really ... I still have them in my kitchen and I've gone through trends of other people, but those are the people that stay in my kitchen and as my inspiration of Julia child. There was a quote about the fear of failure in American cooking. She's like, "It's not so hard to make a caramel sauce. It's not so hard. You just have to try and you have to fail and you learn from those failures."
Kerry Diamond:
You are not afraid of failure. What is that about you?
Jennifer Fisher:
Because I've had so much of it. No, I have. When I was younger, if I wanted something or I wanted to buy a fancy dress or something, my father, who was amazing ... I want to talk about him too because he's a part of the reason why I love food so much.
Kerry Diamond:
Papa John.
Jennifer Fisher:
Papa John. Growing up my entire life, I was told, "No," a lot. And if I wanted something, I had to get a job and work for it or I had to go and with that comes failure. So I learned at a young age of taking risks and putting yourself out there and not being fearful and my father always taught me that and I really truly believe that is really the key to success, is not being afraid to fail because we all fail. You shouldn't have an ego in it because we all have that too. It does hurt and it stings when you don't win or you don't get what you think you deserve or you wanted, but I really believe that it's humorous pointing you in another path that you're meant to be on.
Kerry Diamond:
We'll be right back with today's guest. The fall issue of Cherry Bombe's print magazine is dropping very soon. It's all about the creative class. We're highlighting some of the most innovative and imaginative folks in and around the food world, from photographers to pastry chefs. I would love for you to subscribe to our magazine. It's one of the most beautiful ones around. It's thick and lush and filled with stories, recipes and beautiful photos. We print the magazine at Meridian, a family-owned printing press in Rhode Island. The cutoff date to subscribe and receive the fall issue is Sunday, September 22nd, so don't delay. Subscribe and get four issues delivered direct to your door and free shipping. Head to cherrybombe.com for more.
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi, peeps, It's Jessie Sheehan, the host of She's My Cherry Pie, the baking podcast from The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I have big news for you. My new cookbook, “Salty, Cheesy, Herby, Crispy, Snackable Bakes” will be available Tuesday, September 24th. This is my first savory baking book and I'm so excited to share it with all of you. It features a hundred easy-peasy baking recipes for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and of course, snacking. From sage butter scones to smash burger hand pies and tomato za'atar galette. You'll also find six of my essential savory baking hacks including how to make my magic melted butter pie dough and the quickest and easiest caramelized onions. I just announced my cookbook tour and tickets are on sale right now at cherrybombe.com. The launch party will take place in Manhattan on Tuesday, September 24th. Then I'm in San Francisco on Tuesday, October 8th, Chicago on Tuesday, October 15th and Boston on Wednesday, October 23rd and I can't wait to see you. Thank you to Kerry Gold and King Arthur Flour for supporting my tour. You can also click the link in the show notes of this episode to preorder the book now or pick up a copy at your favorite local bookstore starting September 24th. I hope you love “Salty, Cheesy, Herby, Crispy Snackable Bakes” as much as I loved writing it.
Kerry Diamond:
When you had your health issues, you switched how you were eating and cooking, but prior to that, did you cook a lot? When you were a kid growing up, were you interested in that?
Jennifer Fisher:
I was. So when I was in fifth grade, my mom sent me to cooking class after school. I was convinced she didn't want to pick me up until 5:30 every day. So I went ... My art teacher was the cooking instructor after school and I still have all of the little cards, learned how to make Orange Julius and brownies and all of that and that was my first foray into cooking. I also went to Montessori school and I learned how to cook an egg there. So I always liked food, but my father, we grew up in Santa Barbara, California in Montecito and my dad was a big barbecuer and we would be eating outdoors constantly. My dad was constantly grilling.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I saw your dad with that Santa Maria grill ...
Jennifer Fisher:
You should try-
Kerry Diamond:
... the ones that you rotate up and down.
Jennifer Fisher:
He always had a Santa Maria-style grill and he was always cooking tri-tip and he was always grilling his ribs. Not fall off the bone ribs. They were hard and salt and peppery and that's what my ribs are in the cookbook too, but I do them another broiler in New York City. My mom was the sous chef for my father and she would make the sides and my dad was always the protein man. He was always oversalting the food too. That was a joke in our family, so it's funny that I make salt now because my father is known for always oversalting the food and I think that's one of the reasons why I love eating food that doesn't have added sodium and I like to add my own at very small amounts because I was so used and conditioned to growing up to be like, "Dad, this is so salty."
Kerry Diamond:
That's pretty funny.
Jennifer Fisher:
It's a running joke in our family.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell me a little bit more about your dad. You lost him very suddenly. I'm so sorry.
Jennifer Fisher:
Thank you. Gosh, it was two years ago now and he had a stroke and he died of something called vasculitis and it was the death of a thousand cuts that doctor told me because it was these constant ministrokes and it took him and he was never the same. People say, "So sad that you lost him," he was 85 and it was one of those things that I feel so grateful that I had him for as long as I did because most people don't have ... Not a lot of people have parents like that or relationships of people that they loved and they learned from and that were kind caring parents.
So lucky that I had him for 85 years. We miss him every day, but he's a huge inspiration to me of cooking and being social and being fearless in anything that you do. And that's why this cookbook is like, "I'm not in the food world," but you know what? My dad would be like, "Just do it. What do you care?" And so I hear his voice in my head when I have these doubts because the food community to me, like I said, I'm not part of it, I'm intimidated by it, so it's going to be interesting to put something out that, like I said, I'm not trained in all in many of these things, so it is a little bit daunting, but it's exciting.
Kerry Diamond:
You do have the salt line. I love it. I have your Universal Salt and your Spicy Salt and I absolutely love that you did The Fancy Food Show for the first time ever this summer.
Jennifer Fisher:
It was cool.
Kerry Diamond:
What made you want to do The Fancy Food Show?
Jennifer Fisher:
We were like, "Let's just try it and see," and it was actually incredible because we had the opportunity to meet so many people that we've connected with socially on Instagram and also so many people that we sell to already. Our distribution is really small and we're going to get ready to make it larger, which is exciting. It just was really fun to connect with so many people that products that I love that I use. I came home with bags and bags of food from all of my people and people that ... We support each other. It was really supportive and I felt like two days at camp. It was pretty cool and they would come by and say hi. I'd go by and say hi to them and I saw someone that I met in Italy. He's the food buyer for Harrods and it was just cool to see all these people in one spot.
Kerry Diamond:
I went as a journalist one year and was so overwhelmed, I couldn't believe it.
Jennifer Fisher:
Well, we were in the mini-
Kerry Diamond:
There's thousands of-
Jennifer Fisher:
Upstairs is insane, the cheese section and then you go through the countries upstairs and you go through china and it was pretty incredible. I ran into Gary Vaynerchuk in the Korean snack section and everybody's there too. It was crazy and everyone has the same look on their face and they're bewildered and like, "This is incredible. It's like Disneyland of food." It was so much fun. That was to me my favorite thing to do. I love products like that I guess because I love condiments and just see all of the things that are out there. It just was new products that are made out of cauliflower and interesting. It was so much fun. I loved it.
Kerry Diamond:
All the stuff you love. Did you get a lot of orders from the show?
Jennifer Fisher:
We didn't take any orders of the show intentionally. So we just went to socialize and that was the beauty of it, is we weren't sitting down to write orders with anybody. I've got partners now and we are going through some testing for FDA for packaging and making sure everything was good and compliant.
Kerry Diamond:
The salts came about, like you mentioned, in a really genuine way. This wasn't like, "I'm going to get into the food world." You just start doing this and giving it away for fun.
Jennifer Fisher:
No, but I'm a consumer of food. I know I love to search and I'd rather go shop for mustard than a handbag.
Kerry Diamond:
I do. I feel like for you supermarkets are the new Barneys.
Jennifer Fisher:
No, legit, seriously. A Friday night, I like to go geek out if I can, if I have an hour to go walk around and look for new things. But the salt came literally from me not being able to find ... Having Hashimoto's, I was going to my endocrinologist, she got me off gluten.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us what an endocrinologist is because I'm not even 100% sure.
Jennifer Fisher:
So they check your hormones, they check your bloods to make sure your testosterone levels, your progesterone levels and all of that stuff. I started going to her 20 years ago when I moved to New York City. She's incredible. She keeps me level with my Hashimoto's. She got me off the gluten, and with that, she wanted me eating more breakfasts. And so I was cooking eggs in the morning and I couldn't find anything interesting to put on my eggs, like, "This is so boring. So what am I going to do?" So my father would ship me lemons and avocados from Santa Barbara in these big UPS boxes and my mom still does to this day, but I never wanted to waste any part of the product, so I would grate the lemon rind and I'd keep it in a little bowl with my spices.
And so, one day, I was like, "Okay, I'm so sick of going to these freaking ..." I went to every gourmet grocery store you could, trying to find this amazing seasoning for myself. There's nothing except for hot sauce. I was like, "I'm just going to make my own." So I was, "Kosher salt, black pepper, dill, cilantro, crusted chili pepper flakes," and I was like, "I'll throw on my dad's lemon rind." I started putting it on everything, and one day, my husband was like, "Jen, what are you seasoning this food with? It's really delicious," and I was like, "It's that salt concoction in that bowl on the side of the stove."
And one day as one did on, I put up my egg avocado toast when everyone was posting and it was really annoying and I posted it on my jewelry account. Literally, more people were like, "Well, first of all, you can poach an egg. That's crazy. You can cook. Who knew? That's weird. You're a jewelry designer. Why are you putting that on your jewelry page?" and then it was before DMs, so it was like in the comments. And then someone said, "Well, what is that seasoning?" and then there's a conversation that started about it and my friends who were editors reached out to me were like, "Hey, what's this salt? Can we write about it?" and we're like, "Okay, now we have to figure out to package it."
So we ended up at Christmastime, we did this gifting to all the editors and in my PR department, it was literally because it had a fresh lemon and a fresh avocado in it, a bag of organic chips. It was my first spicy version of my salt, which actually was a sriracha salt, which didn't work because it was too hard to dehydrate and it was sticky, but it worked for the gifting and then a chili oil. It was a huge success and people wanted to write about it. I literally got a thank you note from you know who, at the publisher of all publishers of magazines like a, "Thank you. That was an interesting thoughtful gift. It wasn't a chocolate bar with your face on it. Thank you for holiday gifting. It was actually something nutritious."
Kerry Diamond:
I love a chocolate bar with your face on it.
Jennifer Fisher:
But you know what I mean?
Kerry Diamond:
Send that to me. You sent me some product and I love it and I love how chic your packaging is. It's beauty packaging that makes sense.
Jennifer Fisher:
Well, that was why we went through this whole thing where we had to have it all tested, because first, someone's like, "Well, I don't know if it's food safe." "It is food safe. We're fine, but we're going to probably re-zhuzh it a little bit," but we need to make a shaker, because right now, our refill bags are these plastic ...
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's smart.
Jennifer Fisher:
... these bags and I want it to be a shake ... My father used to always go to Costco and buy those big mass things of garlic salt as he was oversalting the food and all of his stuff and so I want to do a cool shaker because a lot of people use so much of it. The little jars are too small.
Kerry Diamond:
Right, and it is fun. I like the tactileness of ...
Jennifer Fisher:
So do I.
Kerry Diamond:
... opening the jar and sprinkling it over my food, but some people love a saltshaker. I'm too much of a control freak with my salt for a saltshaker.
Jennifer Fisher:
Me too.
Kerry Diamond:
What is your vision for that line? Do you want to have a whole collection of pantry items one day?
Jennifer Fisher:
I've got a lot of ideas of that. Like you with Cherry Bombe, I'm sure as you've watched it evolve, your vision for it has changed and what you want to do and make of it has evolved and changed and new opportunities come and like, "I want to do this cookbook and that's next in line for me and that's what my next year is going to be," but I did a rub for my dad and we just were waiting on that. I already have three other things that are formulated and we already blended, but we were waiting just to ... We want to make sure that we're not doing too many things at once.
Kerry Diamond:
Totally understood. I love what you've done so far. I think you bring so much style and intentionality to it, and at the core of all of it, you just want people to be healthy.
Jennifer Fisher:
I do. I want people to feel better because I felt terrible. I wasn't healthy. I was a wardrobe stylist before I was a jewelry designer. I had a really hard time figuring out how to eat when I was on the go and I was ingesting bars and things were just filled with just garbage protein and sugar and gums. And for so much of my life, I wish that I had a tool book, like what I'm doing for people. I speak to so many young women too that I want to help, that I just want to help people because I didn't have the help and no one really gave me simple tools on how to feel better and it's really so simple.
Kerry Diamond:
Talk to me about farmers' markets. Are you a big farmers' market fan?
Jennifer Fisher:
When I have time, I do like to go to farmers' market. My office was on Union Square for 10 years and so I go to Union Square Farmers' Market, which is to me my favorite and most iconic one in New York City. We go to Tribeca on Saturdays when we walk the dog. It's smaller, but you could still get. There's this amazing Turkey sausage that you can get there and eggs and fish and beautiful flowers and always really good leafy greens. My daughter loves kale, so I always go pick her up some kale and it just feels better buying it there than at a grocery store.
Kerry Diamond:
Are your kids good eaters?
Jennifer Fisher:
They are. They are. We had family dinner last night, so we're trying to have family dinner. My son leaves for college and we did family dinner last night and I was pretty amazed. I was pretty proud of myself. I was like, "Look at you guys," it's cauliflower rice, but they also have ... I make regular rice. I do both because my husband's keto, fully keto, I'm not, but they are pretty well balanced. I think they mirror what you do in the kitchen and I'm a big believer, growing up with them, I never really pushed vegetables on them, but I would leave them out on the counter. I would chop vegetables and leave them on the counter and they would unknowingly just grab them as they'd walk by, grazing, having conversations walking through the house and they would eat their vegetables that way. So I would sometimes sneak a new pepper or something new into that bowl that was sitting on the counter.
As they get older, and I always say this to younger women with their kids, it will come in time. My daughter suddenly loves avocados and tomatoes and she's 17 years old and it takes time, but then they fall into it. And listen, my son goes to school and he's eating takeout constantly, but when he's home with me, I try to give him as much greens as I can. I always tell them to eat as much color as possible, try to stay away from brown food.
Kerry Diamond:
How are you dealing with empty nest syndrome? You talk about that sometimes.
Jennifer Fisher:
I do. Dropping my son at college was emotional. One of my best friends is dropping her daughter at college today and it's her first one out of the house and I get a lot of messages of women on Instagram and they say, "I'm so sad, I'm going to cry," and I say, "Try not to make it about you. Try to make it about how proud you are as a parent that you were able to raise a child that can go out into this world and let them fly and let them be excited for them to go and do all of these things. This is what you trained for and don't be sad. Be proud of yourself." And so that's what I tried to do when I dropped Shane last year, and of course, I cried when I got in the car and I left him.
But once you watch them evolve into these really cool humans when they are out of your house and they are making their own decisions and they're socializing and doing all those things on their own, it's a pretty incredible feeling.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, good. You seem have a really nice relationship with your kids.
Jennifer Fisher:
I try. It's hard. They're like, "Mom," I'm still just mom, but my son called me on my way here about something and I try to be there as much as I can. So it's like working in fashion and I try to get home, cook them dinner or make sure there's food there for them before I go out, or if they know that I'm out that night, I'll stay home the next night and I'll make them food. Because we don't have that long and it goes really fast. They're out of the house before you know it. So enjoy the time, try to be there while you can. I say to girls too that have younger kids, "You don't really remember when they're really young. So that's why I'm so glad I started my company when my kids were younger because I don't remember any of that. But when they start to get a little bit older and you want to make sure you're there for the recitals and all of the art exhibits and all of that kind of stuff and also dinner, it's fun to hang out."
A lot of the times though, we are not sitting at the dining room table, we're standing around the kitchen all together. I rarely sit down to eat, which is a really bad habit because I'm always doing something or serving and they're sitting at the counter, but still to me, that's family dinner. We're together in the kitchen.
Kerry Diamond:
You seem to love Trader Joe's.
Jennifer Fisher:
Actually, can I be honest? So Trader Joe's is really close to my Soho store, and by convenience for me and being a working mom, I would go to Trader Joe's lot when my office was in Soho and also has really great prices on food and they have organic produce, and also RIP, they made this amazing vegan feta that I know.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, no, your vegan feta is gone?
Jennifer Fisher:
They stopped making. They stopped making it.
Kerry Diamond:
Write to somebody and get it back.
Jennifer Fisher:
I know, right? Trader Joe's has amazing things at really affordable prices. And so why do you have to buy the pure olive oil spray that costs $10 at one fancy grocery store when they have it at Trader Joe's for 3.99. So I'm still a working mom and I have a family, so I'm watching what I spend on food. I don't have millions of dollars to spend on groceries. I'm careful about what I spend. So if I can run there after work and get what I need and it doesn't break the bank, I try to get as much as I can.
Kerry Diamond:
I appreciate the videos that you do where you hold up everything that's clean in the store because I get overwhelmed sometimes when I walk in the Trader Joe's. There's so many people and it's got whatever the holiday stuff is that they're focusing on right there and I just see a sea of packaged stuff, but I love that you go through and ...
Jennifer Fisher:
There's a lot of-
Kerry Diamond:
... hold up everything that's clean.
Jennifer Fisher:
I made their cauliflower gnocchi last night because we make them at the house, I roast them 375 until they're crispy and we use them as like tater tots. They're actually really good. If you go through all the packaged foods and you really read them, there's a lot of really interesting things at really good prices, but you have to do your homework. You watch my video on Trader Joe's.
Kerry Diamond:
There are a lot of videos. Thank you for making all of those.
Jennifer Fisher:
You're welcome.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about salad first. You are a major salad girlie. Is that because you grew up in California?
Jennifer Fisher:
I like to eat color and I feel better when I eat color. So if I can put as much color on my plate at a meal, I feel like I've done a good job. I just try to pile on as much color as I can. Maybe it is being from California, but I was a wheatgrass shot girl when I was younger in Santa Barbara and I would do all the salads and things. So I'm a little crunchy. I like a salad. My husband also really likes salad. I joke that he eats more salads than I do, it's this funny thing. So Kevin loves a salad, so I'm constantly making different types of salad. My kids eat salad now.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you have a salad formula? What's the key to a great salad?
Jennifer Fisher:
You've got to have the crunch. You have to have the brine. So I'll put seeds in salad. I like a little creaminess, so I'll put some Formo for me, vegan cheese or they'll have dairy cheese. I like a radish in my salad. I love radishes.
Kerry Diamond:
I love radishes.
Jennifer Fisher:
I love radishes.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you say brine, "You have to have a brine"?
Jennifer Fisher:
You have to have a little brine. So I like a little pepperoncini. I like a cherry pepper. So I also love peppers that are vinegary and have a bite to it. Next to my condiments, that's my biggest shelf. I think I have every form of pickled everything, sauerkraut, kimchi, olive, caper. I even have pickled cauliflower in my refrigerator. I have everything.
Kerry Diamond:
You got it all.
Jennifer Fisher:
Everything. But I keep it pretty simple on the dressings. I have this mustard vinaigrette that I always use that I make in vats, literally this giant vat that I keep in my fridge because we all use it. I feel like salads, you keep your gut healthy. They keep everything moving. I feel weird if I don't eat enough greens and salad.
Kerry Diamond:
I agree.
Jennifer Fisher:
Right. Little protein on there, little shrimp, little chicken, little salmon.
Kerry Diamond:
We talked about avocados. You love avocados. I feel like you would be heartbroken if avocados were not in your life.
Jennifer Fisher:
I would. They're that perfect thing. They're stone fruit. There's something about a creamy avocado that makes everything. You spread it on toast. You put it in your salad. It's always got to be on a sandwich. It is probably the perfect food in my book.
Kerry Diamond:
Jalapenos, that's in a lot of your recipes.
Jennifer Fisher:
Yes, also red onion. I love jalapeno. It just gives a little spice and a little fresh spice. I put it in my salads, I put it in my tuna.
Kerry Diamond:
Your tuna spa salad. What do you call that?
Jennifer Fisher:
My spa tuna.
Kerry Diamond:
Your spa tuna. That recipe is on your website if people want to check that out, but that's super interesting. No mayo. I may have a hard time with it, but I'm willing to try it. Tequila, why is that okay in your book and not other alcohol?
Jennifer Fisher:
Other alcohol's fine. I am better on tequila. I'm not very nice on vodka. I've realized in my older age. I do better on tequila. Added a free tequila, a little lime, a little jalapeno, of course. It's funny, I'm doing a trunk show and we're doing a bar, and so we're going to do a spicy paloma and a spicy margarita with no sugar in it obviously and we're going to rim it with my spicy salt.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, fun.
Jennifer Fisher:
We do that.
Kerry Diamond:
Saffron lattes.
Jennifer Fisher:
Oh, I brought you one.
Kerry Diamond:
You talk about that a lot.
Jennifer Fisher:
That I brought you.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell me about these.
Jennifer Fisher:
When I was going through my partnership deal and raising capital, I was really stressed out and I messaged Will Cole because Will is a telehealth-
Kerry Diamond:
Your Ketotarian friend?
Jennifer Fisher:
Yeah, he's my friend. We're good friends now and I said, "Is there anything I can take because I'm feeling a little down and stressed and I don't know what to do and I'm feeling not good and I'm just super stressed. What do I do?" And he's like, "You know what? Try this saffron latte." I'm like, "What? What?" And he told me about The Fullest. So there's a vitamin you can take and then there's also a latte that's delicious. It's made with coconut milk. I have a package for you. I brought you one that's a travel one, so you can try it ...
Kerry Diamond:
That's really good. Thank you.
Jennifer Fisher:
... with saffron in it. And he's like, "There's benefits to saffron if you're feeling a little down." So I tried it and I started taking the supplements and drinking the lattes. A, it got me off my second cup of coffee and it mellows you out. And so if I'm having kind a stressful day at work, Nikki Bostwick, who's the founder of it, she's really kind and so she sends me these big bags of it and I keep it at my office and it's literally just I have them at meetings during the day and it chills you out.
Kerry Diamond:
And the company is called The Fullest.
Jennifer Fisher:
So they make these great saffron vitamins that I have when I take my supplements and then there's just saffron latte. You can make with any, you can make with water, you can drink it cold and I drink it with almond milk.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you think people can make their own saffron latte at home?
Jennifer Fisher:
I'm sure you can if you look at the ingredients?
Kerry Diamond:
Just I have beautiful saffron from Diaspora.
Jennifer Fisher:
Oh, then you can make it.
Kerry Diamond:
I might try to make my own, but thank you for bringing me that. I was intrigued hearing you talk about it.
Jennifer Fisher:
You can taste the flavor profile of it.
Kerry Diamond:
And I know you also love matcha.
Jennifer Fisher:
I do love matcha. If I can go and get a Vanilla Zen at Matchaful, my day is made, the Iced Vanilla Zen.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, Matchaful's great. Female-founded.
Jennifer Fisher:
It's such a great company. And also another female-founded company that I want to shout out, so I heard about Sixteen Mill. She's so cool and she makes the best chocolate chip cookies.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, wait, I do know about them. They're in Gowanus.
Jennifer Fisher:
But she didn't have a place when I found out about her. I started buying her cookies at Matchaful and we would take them to Soho and they would be like our afternoon snack and they're the most delicious grain-free clean chocolate chip cookies in the world.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, great.
Jennifer Fisher:
And she's such a sweetheart.
Kerry Diamond:
Does she still sell them at Matchaful?
Jennifer Fisher:
She does.
Kerry Diamond:
But if you want to go visit, she does have a small bakery in Gowanus.
Jennifer Fisher:
And I love Matcha Fall because they make their own nut milks too, so you know that none of the nut milks there ... Because that's why I don't really go anywhere else because I know that the nut milks there are clean. So I sub for the almond milk there.
Kerry Diamond:
We've barely talked about your jewelry business. How did it come about?
Jennifer Fisher:
So it's like the food and the salt. Everything in my life, it just happens. I couldn't find what I was looking for. I have a desmoid tumor that I live with, but that's a long story. I went through chemo for that when I was 30. It's just a tumor that we need to watch. It grows from estrogen. So when I wanted to have children, my oncologist said, "Absolutely not. Get a surrogate." We went through surrogacy. It was unsuccessful. I went through IVF. It was unsuccessful. When I finally got pregnant on my own, that was my son Shane, they thought it was a high-risk pregnancy. I just had never been pregnant before and I actually was a perfectly body normal pregnancy, and when he was born, people were giving me gifts to represent him.
And I had collected charms my entire life because my mom would bring me charms after every trip and I had million charms and I wanted to always put them on a necklace and everyone was like, "Charms belong on a bracelet. You're crazy. Who's wearing these charm necklaces?" So I was like, "You know what? I want something to represent him that is meaningful and I wanted his full name on a piece of jewelry," and I couldn't find it anywhere. So literally, being a resourceful stylist, I went up to 47 Street and started knocking on doors and I found someone to make me this very simple dog tag and it said Shane. And I wore it on a long heavy gold chain, which no one was really doing at the time and I would wear it on set when I was a stylist.
And it was one of those things where the grips and the gaffers would come up to me and it was an instant conversation piece because everyone wanted to know what it said and I would tell the story about my son and blah, blah, blah. And everyone wanted either a different shape for their wife, sister, friend, partner, anyone or a different color and so I literally started making them on set for people. And one day, I made one for Uma Thurman and it got delivered the day she was shooting a Glamour magazine cover and she wore it on the cover of Glamour. That was very helpful, but she had her children's name on it and it was just different and people started inquiring about it after that, asking about it and I started a website selling direct-to-consumer customizable jewelry. Because literally, one day my husband Kevin came home from work and he worked on Wall Street at the time and I was still styling and there were orders all over my bed in Soho and he's like, "Jen, this is a business. We got to figure this out."
That's literally how it started and it evolved over time into having the website, having lots of different chains. We still, to this day, that is the base of my fine jewelry, is that, "I don't think everyone wants to wear the exact same thing that everyone else has on, so let's customize something for you that is yours alone." And so the pieces are customizable. You can mix different shapes and sizes and colors and chains and you can wear it as a bracelet if you want. We do earrings, we do everything, but we also do fashion jewelry because I have loved fashion since I was a kid. My wall in high school was plastered with Vogue Magazine because my mom was cool enough to get me a subscription. And after the brand started and I had friends in fashion, they're like, "Charms aren't really covered jewelry. Why don't you make us some statement stuff and we can pitch it and we'll get it on set and say ..."
And I started making big pieces of jewelry, but it was costing me like 10 grand to make this stuff and I was like, "This is crazy. There's got to be a better way." I started doing it in brass, as a base of brass and plating it in gold and I was able to be really creative and make more things that were more editorial worthy and I started getting covers. We started doing lots of different earrings, big statement pieces, chokers, cuffs. And over time, I had Sade on my inspo wall and this photo of Adwoa Aboah from Italian Vogue where she had just small hoops up her ear and I was like, "I got to make these hoop earrings."
Kerry Diamond:
Sade is the Queen of Hoops.
Jennifer Fisher:
She really is. She really is. And so the first pair of hoops I made was Samira Nasr. So I made her a very thin pair of fine gold hoops. That's why my first pair of hoops was named the Samira Hoops. I named them after Samira.
Kerry Diamond:
That's cool. Samira is the editor-in-chief of Harper's Bazaar today. She's awesome, lovely person.
Jennifer Fisher:
She's amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
That is so interesting. When did you start to think of yourself as an entrepreneur?
Jennifer Fisher:
My entire life.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, really? Because your company came about, it was something you were doing to make yourself happy and other people-
Jennifer Fisher:
Oh, I've been slinging stuff since I was like ... I was a kid that would pick the flowers out of your backyard and go to your knock on your front door and make an arrangement and sell them back to you. No, seriously, that was what we would do in Santa Barbara. We were the kids that we would take the avocados. This is probably why I'm such an avocado fiend, is my friend Amy had a bunch of avocado trees in their backyard and so we would pick all the avocados and go on the ... We were hustlers always and we would go on the corner and sell them. And so much so that the guy owns the Mexican restaurant came by and was like, "Hey, I'll take all your avocados every week," and we made a deal with the guy. We were hustling constantly.
My dad would go to Vegas and he was a big gambler when I was younger and they would leave me with babysitters, and by the time they came back, I'd started a company. My first jewelry company was JJ Button Ears. I started it when I was five years old. I still have the cards and the earrings that I glued together and put on cards and it was like slinging them by the time my parents got back into town.
Kerry Diamond:
But when we were younger, entrepreneur wasn't a thing. It wasn't even a word that we used, but you knew you were going to be your own businessperson one day?
Jennifer Fisher:
I knew it. I've always been on my own. It's just who I am. It's funny, I went to USC and I studied business marketing and I thought that I wanted to be the publisher of Vogue Magazine until I got my first job and I was like, "This is absolutely not what I want to be doing." I would watch the clothing racks go by and I was sitting on the ad side and I was like, "This is not for me. I need to be over there." I started assisting a little bit with some stylists and then I got my first job as a stylist. That was like it. And one of my friends worked at Propaganda Films and one of the directors needed a stylist for his Pace Picante commercial and that was my first break in styling.
Kerry Diamond:
Talk to me a little bit about raising money because you did bootstrap for a long time. You did a small friends and family round. I'm sure people listening are like, "Okay, well, it sounds like Jen had access to money," ...
Jennifer Fisher:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
... but tell me about fundraising.
Jennifer Fisher:
It was probably one of the hardest things I've ever done in my entire life. You're picked apart. It's funny, all your choices are questioned. You're picked apart. It's really such a lesson in perseverance of really realizing who you are and what you stand for, what your business stands for and how much you want to take literally. I will not be the same after going through the process, but I feel like I am now much more equipped for my next level of business of where I'm going now because now I've taken on ... I have a JV now and I have partners, which is really exciting because I have now the opportunity to do a lot of things that I couldn't do before when I was alone and they're amazing, but-
Kerry Diamond:
JV means joint venture?
Jennifer Fisher:
Yes. We really wanted something ... Just instead of taking capital from someone and saying, "Here's some money. Go figure it out," I wanted to partner with people that knew what they were doing and could help me grow to the next level and make this a much larger brand. So that's what we did.
Kerry Diamond:
How did you have a thick enough skin to have the investment conversations?
Jennifer Fisher:
I don't think I did.
Kerry Diamond:
That's where I struggled.
Jennifer Fisher:
I struggled too. It was really, really hard. And the things you learn like EBITDA, all of the things that you have to know off the back, you're literally like, "Okay, it's on your risks, you're looking at notes and percentages and everything," because not being someone who's in finance, you learn all of those things and I'm the creative. It was a really good lesson in business and I think it's one of those things that you have to go through. I guess you don't have to go through it to get to the next level because there's many people that don't that are able to do it, what I needed to do. We did it and I'm proud of myself that I got through it because a lot of people would have given up, I think.
At one point, I was like, "Is this really what I want to be doing? Do I really want to ..." There were nights when I was like, "Is this what I want to do?" And you have some serious conversations with yourself and my husband Kevin, who had worked with me for so long in a business and it's humbling.
Kerry Diamond:
It's humbling.
Jennifer Fisher:
It's humbling.
Kerry Diamond:
That's a great word for it.
Jennifer Fisher:
Let's just say that.
Kerry Diamond:
Absolutely. You do a lot of collabs. I love your collabs. You did a really wonderful one with CB2.
Jennifer Fisher:
I love it.
Kerry Diamond:
Right, and I was so happy to see it. So many collabs are one and done and I went on the website last night and a lot of the beautiful pieces are still in the collection.
Jennifer Fisher:
They were the most amazing company to work with. Ryan Turf, he's so cool. I had the best time and they're amazing. They're in Chicago. They were the nicest team. Really, I can't say enough about that company, how grateful I am that I had the opportunity to do that collab. I did 108 pieces of furniture and it was a lot. I designed like 360, went with 108, but the dishes are still on the website. I think it'll probably over soon, but the swirl dish evidently outsold the white dish for them, so it did that well.
Kerry Diamond:
That's a big deal.
Jennifer Fisher:
I don't know if that's still the case. We'll see, but-
Kerry Diamond:
But they're beautiful pieces.
Jennifer Fisher:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
I was super happy to see that. Any upcoming collabs?
Jennifer Fisher:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
You need one?
Jennifer Fisher:
No. My cookbook and the jewelry company. So we're really focused on growing the jewelry brand because we were really a direct-to-consumer company, 96% DTC. So we're going to work on a little bit more wholesale and just servicing our wholesale accounts a little bit better and keeping up with demand. We had a hard time keeping up with demand, so it's exciting to now have the opportunity to have enough product.
Kerry Diamond:
Right, that's a blessing and a curse. People might hear that and be like, "Oh, you're so lucky, but"-
Jennifer Fisher:
I know, I know, I know, so I'm planning.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, let's talk a little bit more about you. I get the sense that turning 50 really emboldened you. Is that the correct reading?
Jennifer Fisher:
Turning 50 really emboldened me. I don't live in fear of anything anymore. The insecurities and the things that I think that when you're younger that you have that when you turn 50, you're like, "Okay, I don't have time for that anymore. I'm not going to live my life that way anymore." Maybe I'm a little bit less fearful than some people. It is just that intention of, "Who cares? Go for it, whatever. And if I fail, we'll try it this way." But I've always been that way. That's how I was taught and my dad always said, "Try it again and try it a different way. You learn. That's how you learn."
I believe that we don't have a lot of time here and we should make the most out of every day. This morning, you set that intention when you wake up for the day and I try to set my intention for the day like, "Okay, I'm here. I woke up. Okay, that's great. Let's make sure that we make the most of it. Let's do as much as we can in one day." Because people are like, "Aren't you tired?" I'm like, "No. I'm excited to do all of these things." When I'm done here, I've got a plan for the day of things that I'm going to do and I feel good if I can get those things done and I don't think I'm rushing through life because some people are critical of it and I don't think that I'm just glazing past certain things. I'm trying to do as much as I can. I find the joy in that. We're lucky to be here to be able to do it.
Kerry Diamond:
When did you learn to trust your gut?
Jennifer Fisher:
At a really young age. At a really young age. That's always been my motto, "Trust your gut." And there's so many times that I've kicked myself that I haven't, and that inner voice, you know if it's right or wrong, just try to learn to listen to it and it takes time. I tell this story all the time. There was someone that was very big in fashion that gave me advice when I went through the Vogue CFDA Fashion Fund in 2012 and I'll never forget it wasn't good advice and I knew it. That person is not running my business and is not doing exactly what I'm doing every day and I know the intricacies of that decision that I'm going to be making and I go back to that all the time because I wasted months for me.
So I think it's important to try to listen to yourself, and if you feel the need to do something that doesn't feel right, try to write it down, "Why am I doing this? What are the reasons why I'm feeling like I have to make this decision or go in that direction?" and most of the time, you're right.
Kerry Diamond:
You are such a girl's girl, you are a sharer, but you share information that is helpful to other people. That seems to really drive you. What is that all about?
Jennifer Fisher:
I think it's a weird cultural thing that women are not always kind to each other and don't always look after each other. And I think if you can be direct and honest about things, I think that that's helpful. It doesn't waste time and I am just open with it. If people want to ask me, do I do Botox, who is my doctor, what have I done, I don't care, I share. It's just asking what's in my lunch. What's the big deal?
Kerry Diamond:
"I don't care. I share."
Jennifer Fisher:
I don't care. I share.
Kerry Diamond:
That's a good motto. You were on Melissa Wood-Tepperberg's podcast and you said, "It's a huge disservice to other women to lie."
Jennifer Fisher:
It is because I think so many women, there's that Instagram perfection, "Well, you know, that person doesn't look that way that they looked five years ago, but they're saying they just have a special cream." Come on. It's all of those things that I just think is just a disservice to other women. Just be honest. What's the big deal? We all make choices about what we put into our bodies. What's the difference with what we do to our bodies? We should have that freedom and choice without judgment.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's do a little speed round. What beverage do you start the day with?
Jennifer Fisher:
Coffee that my husband Kevin makes me and brings it to me.
Kerry Diamond:
Black coffee?
Jennifer Fisher:
No, I have it with almond milk and coconut sugar and cinnamon.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, you do?
Jennifer Fisher:
I do. I do.
Kerry Diamond:
I thought I knew everything about you.
Jennifer Fisher:
No, I drink black coffee when I go out because I don't trust the milks in places except for Matchaful. So in the morning, I drink coffee with Three Trees Almond Milk, coconut sugar and cinnamon, Burlap & Barrel.
Kerry Diamond:
Nice. What's always in your fridge? It's probably with a lot of stuff, but tell me one thing.
Jennifer Fisher:
Eggs, fresh herbs, cilantro, dill, Italian parsley and my vegetable drawer is always full.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you have a favorite cookbook or book on food?
Jennifer Fisher:
I love Amanda Hesser's book that she just did The New York Times one.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite snack food as a kid?
Jennifer Fisher:
So I love dates and so my mom would have these big bins of dried dates that were dehydrated and they were kind of hard. And I would hide in the kitchen and I would go and close the pantry door and I'd eat the dates. It's a weird story, I've never talked about that before, but it's a weird thing and I think that's why I love dates so much as an adult.
Kerry Diamond:
And we both have the same favorite dates.
Jennifer Fisher:
Rancho Meladuco. Man, there's nothing like those.
Kerry Diamond:
Also female-founded. Most used kitchen implement?
Jennifer Fisher:
My mandolin.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you use a glove?
Jennifer Fisher:
No. No, I'm like an old schooler, "Let's just see what happens." I'm purposeful and intentional when I use my mandolin, so be very careful. Wear a glove if you are not.
Kerry Diamond:
Nigella Lawson was on the show. She talked about this Game of Thrones glove that she uses.
Jennifer Fisher:
I have that. My daughter uses that when she uses it though.
Kerry Diamond:
What are you streaming today?
Jennifer Fisher:
Oh, gosh. The Bear, Bridgerton. I'm all over the place in what I watch. I watch a lot of late night Diners Drive-Ins and Dives. I'll watch Housewives, Sex in the City here and there. I run the gamut of everything.
Kerry Diamond:
What's a song that makes you smile?
Jennifer Fisher:
Dua Lipa/Elton John, Cold Heart.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite smell?
Jennifer Fisher:
Burnt skin on chicken. I love that smell. I make these wings at my house and so I char them in my broiler and I love that smell. I love the smell of chili too and vanilla, obviously.
Kerry Diamond:
Dream travel destination?
Jennifer Fisher:
Morocco. I haven't been yet.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, you would love it.
All right, last question. And I have no idea where your answer is going to be and I sometimes can guess. If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Jennifer Fisher:
Guy Fieri. I love him.
Kerry Diamond:
I love it.
Jennifer Fisher:
I love him so much. There's something about him that I think he's so cool because I feel like he came onto the food scene and wasn't really supported when he first started and look at him now. I love that. I love that about him. I just want to hang out with him and cook in his ... Have you seen his outdoor kitchen that he has in his house? It is insane. He has ... So I'm friends with Marc Murphy, Chef Marc Murphy and he'll see all these guys and get to go to his house, and every time I see Marc, I'm like, "Just get me to Guy's house." All I want to do is go to his outdoor kitchen and he's got grills. It is literally the Super Bowl of kitchens that's outside. And I watch him a lot on TV and he's that guy for me.
Kerry Diamond:
Your whole face lit up so clearly...
Jennifer Fisher:
It's true.
Kerry Diamond:
... you are a genuine fan.
Jennifer Fisher:
Yeah, I am.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, Jen. I'm such a genuine fan of yours.
Jennifer Fisher:
It means so much that I'm here. Thank you. I just think what you're doing in the food world in terms of publishing with ... I mean, Cherry Bombe, it is the end all, be all of cool fashion food.
Kerry Diamond:
Thank you.
Jennifer Fisher:
It's everything together, so thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Good luck with that cookbook.
Jennifer Fisher:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Can't wait to see it.
That's it for today's show. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazan is the studio engineer for Newsstand Studios. Special thanks to the folks at Good Studio in Brooklyn. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Elizabeth Vogt. Our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu, and our content and partnerships manager is Londyn Crenshaw. Thanks for listening, everybody. You are the Bombe.