Jeremy Allen White Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from New York City. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine.
You know we love “The Bear” here at Radio Cherry Bombe. We saw the trailer back in 2022 and we knew the show was going to be something special. We're lucky that we've been able to chat with some of the stars and the culinary producer over the years here on the pod. In honor of season three, which returns June 27th to Hulu, we're revisiting some of our “Bear” interviews. You long time listeners know this, but I used to own restaurants, and yes, dated a chef years ago. And the show has moved me in ways I can barely describe. First up in our “Bear” celebration is Jeremy Allen White who plays the complicated Carmy.
Jeremy Allen White:
What's up?
Ayo Edebiri:
Can I just ask you a question maybe?
Jeremy Allen White:
Of course. Yeah.
Ayo Edebiri:
I know who you are.
Jeremy Allen White:
Oh yeah?
Ayo Edebiri:
Yeah. I mean, you're the most excellent CDC at the most excellent restaurant in the entire United States of America. What are you doing here, I guess?
Jeremy Allen White:
Making sandwiches.
Kerry Diamond:
I chatted with Jeremy right when season one debuted, so we do not talk about those Calvin Klein ads. Sorry to disappoint some of you. It's amazing to hear this conversation today, because Jeremy had absolutely no idea that “The Bear” was going to be a hit, that he would win every acting award out there, or how much it would change his life. Stay tuned for our chat.
Today's show is presented by Kerrygold, the iconic Irish brand famous for its beautiful cheese and butter made with milk from Irish grass-fed cows. If you are new to Kerrygold, lucky you. You have a whole world of butter and cheese to explore. We're going to focus on Kerrygold cheese today, which I love and always have in my fridge. Now that I work from home most days, I'm trying to be intentional about my snacking, and Kerrygold cheese paired with seasonal fruit is one of my favorite smart snacks. I love Kerrygold Aged Cheddar and Kerrygold Reserve Cheddar, two perfect cheddars as far as I'm concerned, with sliced apples or Asian pears. Kerrygold Dubliner, which is sweet and nutty, goes well with ripe, juicy peaches. And Kerrygold Cashel Blue Farmhouse cheese pairs beautifully with figs and grapes. Add a handful of walnuts or some hearty crackers, and it's the perfect thing to tide you over between Zooms, deadlines, and emails. If you're snacking on the go like I do on the days I record Radio Cherry Bombe, Kerrygold has made it easy with its new cheese snacks. Throw an apple and a Kerrygold Aged Cheddar cheese cnack in your tote bag and you're all set. Visit kerrygoldusa.com to learn more about Kerrygold cheese, to browse recipes, and to find a store near you.
Our show is also supported by OpenTable. I'm excited to announce that we'll be back on the road very soon with OpenTable for our Sit With Us Community Dinner Series, which highlights amazing female chefs and restaurateurs in the Cherry Bombe and OpenTable networks. It's been such a treat meeting so many of you at our dinners across the country. Thank you to everyone who joined us at Alma Cafe in New Orleans with Chef Melissa Araujo. Our next three Sit With Us dinners will take place at Le Bon Nosh in Atlanta with Chef Forough Vakili on June 17th, at José in Dallas with Chef Anastacia Quiñones-Pittman on June 25th, and at Nostrana in Portland, Oregon with Chef Cathy Whims on June 30th. How does it work? You can come solo and sit at a Cherry Bombe community table or bring a friend or two, and we will seat you together. Tickets are available exclusively on OpenTable. Just search for the restaurant on the OpenTable app or opentable.com. Go to the experiences tab to purchase a ticket, which includes a welcome drink and a three course or family-style meal. A portion of the proceeds from each dinner will benefit a local charity. Learn more about the OpenTable and Cherry Bombe Sit With Us Series at cherrybombe.com.
Jeremy Allen White:
Chef, no, please. Please do not touch that. This is the one time you listen to me, please do not touch that. That's been going for 12 hours, okay?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
That's my pot, chef. Everybody knows.
Edwin Lee Gibson:
That's her pot.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Right.
Jeremy Allen White:
Use another pot please, chef. All right? Corner-
Kerry Diamond:
Jeremy Allen White, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Jeremy Allen White:
Thank you. So happy to be here.
Kerry Diamond:
I have to tell you, “The Bear” absolutely killed me. You and the team really nailed restaurant life and culture. I told you this earlier, but I used to own some restaurants and I was sobbing. I don't even think I made it through episode three. I think I had to shut it off halfway through. Seven is going to be the tough one for a lot of the restaurant folks to watch.
Jeremy Allen White:
Sure, I'm sure. Our goal the whole time was to make it as true to back of house as we possibly could, but I don't think I put that much thought into how much PTSD that might give people that have worked in back of house, who still work in back of house. But I'm so happy. I'm so happy it rang true to you, because that was really the goal.
Kerry Diamond:
Every time I saw one of those invoices stamped overdue, and then the Sharpie meltdown, I was like, "Damn."
Jeremy Allen White:
It did. That was something I talked to a lot of cooks and chefs about, that sound that they would have dreams of the tickets coming in and just hearing that sound. We had to use it all.
Kerry Diamond:
So how would you describe your character, Carmy?
Jeremy Allen White:
He's gone through the incredible trauma of the loss of his brother. His identity is so wrapped up in being a chef and in being incredibly successful. He's had so much success, but if you think of the whole season of the show, Carmy speaks a lot in the eighth episode about the history. They didn't overwrite anything. There's not that much written in the show, and then things are more well understood in the eighth episode. You realize that Carmy has been facing this forever. He loved his brother. His brother was good at this thing. He's had a chip on his shoulder his whole life. He's gotten very successful at this. His identity is completely wrapped up in this, and everything seems so life and death. It's death or glory for him. He's put everything into this. If he can't succeed, his life is over. If he can succeed, he'll have glory. Or will he? What is success when you're that hungry for success? He's a very young, talented chef that's coming home and then trying to fix his restaurant, family restaurant.
Kerry Diamond:
Have you ever worked in a restaurant before?
Jeremy Allen White:
I've never worked in a restaurant, no.
Kerry Diamond:
You didn't even wait tables?
Jeremy Allen White:
I got into acting when I was pretty young, 14 or 15. I didn't have super early success or anything. I'd get a commercial or this or that and I never had to do another job while I was acting. But I've spent an incredible amount of time now learning in restaurants in the last... It'll be almost a year that I've been really spending time in restaurants and staging in different places. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
And how about cooking? Is it true you didn't know how to cook before this?
Jeremy Allen White:
I could do a couple of things, but really my interest level was low. I like to pre-heat good food. I wasn't skilled in the kitchen at all.
Kerry Diamond:
Who did the cooking when you were growing up?
Jeremy Allen White:
I would say my dad cooked a little bit more. Breakfast was really important for him. He made us a big breakfast every day. It was never cereal and oatmeal. He made a big deal out of breakfast. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, tell us what he made.
Jeremy Allen White:
It was always really heavy. There was always cheese, eggs, potatoes, bacon, sausage, lots of toast, a really classic American-style breakfast. But he would do it consistently, pancakes and waffles. It was really nice.
Kerry Diamond:
My breakfast was a bowl of Sugar Smacks, and I think on the weekend, Entenmann's Donuts. Jeremy, where did you grow up?
Jeremy Allen White:
I grew up not far from where I am now. I'm in Williamsburg now and I grew up in an area called Carroll Gardens.
Kerry Diamond:
Where I live right now. What was it like when you were growing up?
Jeremy Allen White:
I loved it. I live on Sack Street, really close to Bond. At the time, Bond Street was pretty empty. It was right by the Gowanus Canal and not a lot going on. Then I loved Smith Street and Court Street were really wonderful. Even then, there were some really good restaurants and nice cafes. I had a church on my corner. The bells would ring. Yeah, it was a really nice place to grow up.
Kerry Diamond:
We’ll be right back with today's guest. Today's show is brought to you by Le Creuset. Le Creuset is one of the most coveted kitchenware brands around, thanks to their legendary enameled cast iron cookware made in France. I have Le Creuset's Dutch Oven in white and a small saucepan in meringue. I treasure them and use them all the time. Now, Le Creuset is inviting us to bring that same sophistication and quality outside with their Alpine Outdoor Collection, specifically designed for cooking over an open flame. This durable high performance collection will enhance any grilling or backyard barbecuing you have planned for the summer or maybe all year round, if you're one of those folks.
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If you're listening right now, you know that Cherry Bombe has a podcast. But did you know we also have a print magazine? We do, and our latest issue is now available. Maybe you've never bought a magazine in your entire life or you're a print nerd like me. Either way, I'd love for you to check out our magazine. Each issue is thick and gorgeous and printed on lush paper at an independently owned family-run printer in Rhode Island. The pages are filled with great stories, profiles, features, photographs, and recipes. You can subscribe via cherrybombe.com. We have a variety of subscription options for you. You can also pick up a copy of Cherry Bombe at your favorite bookstore, magazine shop, or culinary store, places like Now Serving in Los Angeles, Le Dix-Sept Pâtisserie in San Francisco, and Golden Fig Fine Foods in St. Paul, Minnesota. Happy reading and thank you for supporting Cherry Bombe.
I heard you went to culinary school for two weeks to prepare for the role. What was culinary school like?
Jeremy Allen White:
I was so uncertain of myself, stepping into the project in general, because I knew it was so important to get all this stuff right. But they were supportive. I went with Ayo. Ayo played Sydney on the show. That was how I got to know her. The first time we met was in school, and us spending time together was really just in there for two weeks until we started shooting. It was interesting to get to know somebody through that process of learning and also get to know somebody through the language of cooking when so much of how Sydney and Carmy communicate is also through cooking. So that was really, really wonderful. We had some great teachers there, but I remember telling them, "I just need to feel comfortable. I'll never be as good as Carmy, because he's sacrificed so much time and put in much effort. That's never happen. If I can look confident, that's all I need."
So it was a lot of repetition, a lot of night work over and over again. I wanted to get comfortable with frying pans, so they just had me flip eggs for a couple hours to really make it seem like I had a comfort and it was second nature. Then something that was important to me that I didn't learn so much at ICE, but through the process of spending time in other kitchens, the movement. These kitchens are such small places. There are so many people in them. These chefs, they have a really graceful way of moving around each other. And that was something that was really important for me to capture. That was something I knew I could fake.
Kerry Diamond:
It's really such a dance in a kitchen. How did the show even originate? Tell us a little bit about Christopher, the creator, why he came up with the idea, why he wanted to do the show.
Jeremy Allen White:
Chris Storer created the show. I think at one point, he had it written as a film. I think he's had this idea in his head for maybe around 10 years. For a time, it was a film. Then in the last couple of years, I guess FX took a look at it. Our producers Nate and Hiro took a look at it. They were like, "We think it'd be great if it's TV." So that's how that started. But the story, I think, is really close to Chris. He grew up in Chicago. A lot of these characters, I think, are loosely based on the people he grew up with.
I don't know how much he worked in kitchens, but he's a really wonderful chef. He is very talented. And his sister, Courtney Storer, is a really wonderful professional chef. She most recently was head chef at Jon and Vinny's in Los Angeles. She's really wonderful. So he always had an interest in the world. In the last, I guess, year, year and a half, things started coming together and we made it happen. But it's very much Chris's story he's been holding on to, I think, for a long, long time.
Kerry Diamond:
And Courtney was essentially the culinary director on the show and head food stylist, would you say?
Jeremy Allen White:
Her and Matty, yeah. Her and Matty Matheson were all over it. We had hot plates and stuff set up on another stage. So they would all be cooking as we were cooking on stage. Everything worked, the kitchen they built on stage. So we could cook on everything. It was actually great. We did often for camera, but yes, there were food stylist, but also for me, I just told them both, "If you see me doing something in a scene that looks crazy or that doesn't ring true to you, just stop. Stop, please. Say cut and come in, and let's figure it out." Because they're both so capable, I knew they could do that, and they did, which was so helpful.
Kerry Diamond:
So that was a set? I really thought you shot in a restaurant.
Jeremy Allen White:
For the pilot, we shot in a restaurant. That's the other thing. That's the sad thing. So we shot the pilot in July last year. There were so many spaces available, because so many restaurants had closed, obviously. So we found an empty kitchen that we could shoot in for the pilot. Then we shot our exteriors at The Beef, which is a real Mr. Beef, which is a real restaurant in Chicago. Then we built the exact kitchen though from the pilot on stage for the rest of the series. But it was all functional and it was still quite tight, but we gave ourselves a little bit more room for camera.
Kerry Diamond:
You also staged at some restaurants in addition to culinary school. Can you say which restaurants and what some of the highlights were?
Jeremy Allen White:
My first day, I went to Republique. I can't even really call it staging. I was really just standing in a corner that day. I'd never been to a kitchen at that level. I felt very overwhelmed. It's such a big restaurant. The staff is so large. It was really, really overwhelming. They were all lovely. Chris Storer and Cooper Wehde, who's a producer on the show as well, they had gone to a restaurant called Pasjoli in Santa Monica. The chef there, Chef Dave Beran, was a Chicago chef. He worked at Alinea for a long time.
So they were like, "Okay, this guy lived in Chicago for a long time. He understands food in Chicago. Why don't you go meet with him?" So I went to Pasjoli, which is a really wonderful French restaurant which recently got a Michelin Star. I loved it there. It was a lot more intimate. The crew there was a little smaller. Chef Dave was really, really lovely and patient with me. My first days there, I was doing prep. You can mess up here and there, not that big deal. But then by the end, I was on the line and I was preparing food for guests.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, you did?
Jeremy Allen White:
I was surprised. They kind of sprung it on me. I felt like I wasn't given much of a choice. I had to be pushed a little bit, and it felt great. I had to trust myself that it all worked out. Nobody got sick or anything.
Kerry Diamond:
And sometimes that really happens in a restaurant. You're short-staffed and you just have to throw somebody right in, sink or swim, right?
Jeremy Allen White:
Totally, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Jeremy, what did you learn about chefs that you didn't know?
Jeremy Allen White:
I think I was aware of this with chefs. I didn't fully understand the sacrifices and the amount of time, the amount of time you have to work, the repetition. From my perspective, if you don't fully love this, why would you do it? And so those guys stick it out and they get to the next level and they have the success. I just have a tremendous amount of respect for the time, I think would really drive me.
Kerry Diamond:
Knowing what you now know, has it changed your relationship with restaurants and how you dine?
Jeremy Allen White:
While we were doing the show, I've eaten in some really great places and I've tried to understand service in a different way. I'm a bit more of a tough critic than I was a year ago, walking into a restaurant, depending on what the restaurant is, of course. But yeah, I've learned a lot, learned a lot about how back of house works. From Matty, Matty is a restaurateur. He has so many restaurants in Toronto, so I've learned a lot about just the service industry as well. That was something that was really interesting to me. I feel like I can be a little bit of a punk sometimes.
Kerry Diamond:
I want to talk about some of the other homework that you did. I know you read Anthony Bourdain's “Kitchen Confidential” to prep for the role. Just curious what you thought about that book and what you brought or borrowed from Bourdain.
Jeremy Allen White:
I really enjoyed the book. I'd read some it before the show. What struck me and I think what strikes everybody about him, passion not only for kitchens and food, but for life. And I knew that Carmy needed that passion. He needed that drive. I needed to find something that he wanted to so badly, because nobody just wants to watch guy who's angry and shouting at everybody all the time. There needs to be something there. I think what I really appreciated about the book and what I took away from it is it's just so nice to listen to somebody talk about how much they love this thing. Then I could try to just make Carmy love it.
Kerry Diamond:
I want to ask you about Chicago. I've been to Chicago a bunch of times. I'm not super well-versed in all things Chicago, but it's your second show based in Chicago, as all your fans know. First, I need you to bring me up to speed on this whole Chicago sandwich and Italian beef thing, because I don't know anything about that. So what can you tell me?
Jeremy Allen White:
I don't know how long it's been going on, but it's having a bit of a renaissance now. Everybody's kind of trying different things, but the classic beef is thinly sliced beef on a roll. You can do sweet or hot peppers. You could dip it or have it not dipped in the juice, and that's it. It's pretty simple. Different neighborhoods have different sandwich shops. It's almost where you eat your Italian beef in Chicago is, are you for the Cubs or for the White Sox? And people take a lot of pride in which one they like and where they like it from.
Kerry Diamond:
The show was a love letter to so many things like chefs, restaurants, but it was definitely a love letter to Chicago. The scenes of Chicago were beautiful, the sense of community and family that the show taps into. How did you feel when you found out your second show would be based in Chicago?
Jeremy Allen White:
I was excited. I think I had a moment of hesitation, thinking my next thing right after “Shameless,” do I want to go right back to Chicago? But the story was too good to pass up. That sort of environment became not as important to me. Then also, Chicago's a lovely city. If I'm going to spend more time somewhere, why not Chicago? And you're right, Chicago does play such a big role in the show. It's a beautiful city. I've spent not a tremendous amount of time there. The longest extended period I'd been there was for “The Bear,” because for “Shameless,” we would only go there for about a week or so at a time. It was still great. I feel like I had my experience with “Shameless” and I understood that Chicago or what that Chicago was for me. Then I feel like I experienced a whole new one with this group of people and staying there for a long time. It really feels like a different world now, like two different Chicagos.
Kerry Diamond:
Jeremy, I want to ask you about the other cast members, because this is such a tremendous ensemble piece. Had you and any of those folks ever worked together before?
Jeremy Allen White:
Chris Storer produced a movie I did a couple years ago, the creator of it. So I knew him a little bit. I'd met Ebon, who plays Ricky briefly. We have a couple musical friends, but never worked with him. Everybody else was pretty much brand new to me. We had a really wonderful casting director, Jeanie Bacharach. I just thank her, because we had about a week of rehearsal before the pilot, which isn't a lot of time. But you usually don't get any time, so it was really nice to have. Things fell into place pretty quickly. Also, when you're in that environment, it really drops you in. When you're in a functioning kitchen, it feels real and everybody felt real so quickly. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
I am rooting for you to get a second season for so many reasons, but especially because I want to know the backstories of all those characters in the kitchen.
Jeremy Allen White:
Totally. I think the plan, if we do get to do some more is to also do some standalone episodes maybe where there could be an entire episode that's from Mark's perspective, and we're just living in his world for an episode, kind of thing. I hope that's the thing I get to do, because I think all the characters are so rich and interesting. Nothing's two-dimensional. Even the characters that didn't have a lot of time this season, the actors are so good that you still get it.
Kerry Diamond:
I was very happy to see the guys from the dish pit represented. You know who I just absolutely loved? Sydney was fantastic, but the actor who plays Tina.
Jeremy Allen White:
Yes, Liza, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Her journey through those eight episodes.
Jeremy Allen White:
She has a theater company here. She's been doing theater forever. Her husband's a really wonderful actor. She's been doing this for a very long time and I'm really excited. I'm hoping this is the beginning of some more stuff for her.
Kerry Diamond:
No, she was fantastic, and you have some fun cameos in the show too. These might be spoiler alerts. They might not be spoiler alerts, because if you haven't watched it, you might want to tune out for a minute or two. But I loved seeing Oliver Platt in the show. I wasn't even entirely sure that was him until the credits. I was like, "That was Oliver." Was that an in-joke, that he was in there because his brother is one of the most prominent restaurant critics in the country?
Jeremy Allen White:
For folks who know that sort of thing, yes. I think it was a little bit of a wink. He almost played a version of his brother, I guess, in “Chef,” that Jon Favreau movie too. But yeah, he's very knowledgeable on food and service, stuff like that, spending time with his brother. He likes good meals. But yeah, we were so excited to have him. He's such a wonderful actor. He works on another show in Chicago, one of those Dick Wolf shows. He spends so much time there and they let us borrow him for a couple days.
Kerry Diamond:
He was great. The scene at his house, I was dying. I won't say anything more, but oh, my God. And then another cameo, Molly Ringwald. It's so funny that Molly was in there, because the first ... I think it was maybe the first or first one and a half episodes, I kept thinking of “The Breakfast Club,” because they film so much of “The Breakfast Club” right in the character's faces.
Jeremy Allen White:
Really tight, yes.
Kerry Diamond:
A lot of that claustrophobic feeling that you get from, in a good way, “The Breakfast Club,” I felt like you really nailed in the first few episodes. Then all of a sudden, Molly Ringwald pops up and I was like, "Well, that's strange. I was thinking about “The Breakfast Club,” and here's Molly."
Jeremy Allen White:
Yeah, it was really cool. I might be getting this wrong, so forgive me, anybody who knows, but Ebon who plays Richie, his manager represent Molly. Molly's husband, I believe, is a publisher who was friends with Anthony Bourdain. So there was even a food connection somehow there as well. She read the script and was really supportive of the story and was like, "Yeah, I'll come do this monologue." She was so wonderful.
Kerry Diamond:
You mentioned the movie “Chef.” Do you have some favorite food films?
Jeremy Allen White:
“Big Night,” I think, is one of my all times. Then I feel like I have to mention “Burnt.” John Wells, who was our showrunner on “Shameless,” directed this movie, “Burnt,” with Bradley Cooper. I really enjoyed it and I thought Bradley Cooper was wonderful. I also found it interesting. It's his second time playing a chef. He played, I guess, a version of Anthony Bourdain on a Fox show called “Kitchen Confidential,” knowing that I was interested why he wanted to kind of go back to that world.
Kerry Diamond:
Jeremy, what do you ultimately hope viewers take away regarding the world of chefs and small family-run restaurants?
Jeremy Allen White:
It does take such commitment and passion and time, and the success rate is so slim. I want people to know how much these people are putting into these restaurants. What attracted me to the show was this lonely man. He seemed very lonely to me, Carmy. Over the course of the show, he really starts to be able to let people in. All those sorts of stories will always resonate with me more than anything. I think it's so universal, somebody feeling alone and realizing they're not. So I hope that that's something people can take away.
Kerry Diamond:
And I can't let you leave without asking for a few of your favorite restaurants.
Jeremy Allen White:
Here in New York, I really like Frankies in Carroll Gardens. I really like Lucali. I like Pasjoli a lot. I like Jon and Vinny's. I like Pace in L.A.
Kerry Diamond:
And what restaurants are on your bucket list?
Jeremy Allen White:
Anglers is a place in L.A. that every chef while I was working, that was their favorite place at the time. So I definitely want to go there. That's in Los Angeles. There's a place called Mother Wolf that just opened recently in Los Angeles that I really want to go to that's a really wonderful chef from a restaurant called Felix on Abbott Kinney and Venice. Lionel who plays Marcus on the show, in his preparation, he did a lot of baking in Copenhagen at the bakery that sends all of their bread to Noma. One night, Lionel went with some of the staff from the bakery and they all ate at Noma. I think that's something you have to try to do if you can.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's wild. Noma got a lot of love in the series. And last question, if you could have anybody from the restaurant world do a cameo in a future season, who would it be?
Jeremy Allen White:
You know what? I don't know. I'd love to have Pasta Grannies come and be in an actual dream sequence with me, rather than have me fall asleep watching them on TV. I think that that would be really...
Kerry Diamond:
I love that, fully support that. Well, Jeremy, thank you so much. Again, what a tremendous show. I just hope everybody-
Jeremy Allen White:
Thanks.
Kerry Diamond:
Out there gets to watch it, and I hope we get lots of seasons. So beautifully played, congratulations.
Jeremy Allen White:
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. I would love for you to subscribe to Radio Cherry Bombe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave a rating and a review. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazan is the studio engineer for Newsstand Studios. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Elizabeth Vogt. Our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu, and our content operations manager is Londyn Crenshaw. Thanks for listening, everybody. You are the Bombe.