Lucie Franc de Ferriere Transcript
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi, peeps. You're listening to She's My Cherry Pie, the baking podcast from The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Jessie Sheehan. I'm a baker, recipe developer, and cookbook author, and my fourth book is coming out this fall. Each Saturday I'm hanging out with the sweetest bakers around, and taking a deep dive into their signature bakes.
My guest today is Lucie Franc de Ferriere, the founder and baker of From Lucie bakery in New York City. The East Village spot opened in January 2023 and quickly became a top destination for cake lovers. Lucie's elegant layer cakes topped with fresh flowers can be seen all over Instagram and found at some of the coolest events in town. Today, Lucie and I chat about how her upbringing in the French countryside gave her a lifelong love of nature and appreciation for flavor. Then we dive into her recipe for chamomile cake with strawberry jam and vanilla bean whipped cream. I loved hearing about Lucie's vision for her beautiful bakery, her two weddings, she baked her own cake for one of them by the way, and her tips for working with fresh flowers. Stay tuned for our chat.
Thank you to Grappa Nonino for supporting today's show. Grappa is a traditional Italian spirit made by distilling pomace, the skin, seeds, and stems of grapes left over from the wine-making process. Generations have loved to sip grappa or use it in cocktails, and some even use grappa as an ingredient in baked goods and desserts. I've used bourbon, rum, and amaretto before, but never grappa. So the folks at Grappa Nonino challenged me to create some special treats with their award-winning grappa varietals. I made a chocolate pudina with Nonino's Monovitigno chardonnay grappa. The varietal's notes of bread, vanilla, and pastry paired so well with the chocolate. Nonino's Monovitigno merlot grappa, with its notes of rose petal and cherry and its fruity finish, was the perfect addition to my ricotta cake with strawberries. A trifle is always a showstopper, so I made a raspberry trifle, but swapped out the traditional sherry for Grappa Nonino Monovitigno moscato. This varietal's floral sage, thyme, and vanilla flavors were an ideal complement to the tart raspberries and sweet mascarpone cream. Nonino has been distilling grappa since 1897, and has been led by generations of amazing women. From Silvia Nonino, Italy's first female master distiller, to Silvia's three granddaughters who run the distillery today. Keep an eye on my Instagram, Jessie Sheehan Bakes, to learn and see just how I use Grappa Nonino in my baked goods and desserts and to get the recipes. You can also learn more about Grappa Nonino at grappanonino.it.
Peeps, have you the news? Cherry Bombe's first ever Jubilee Wine Country is happening in Napa Valley on October 26th and 27th. It'll be a weekend filled with great wine, winemakers, beautiful food, seasonal produce, conversation, connection, and California. Passes are now available. To learn more and snag a pass, visit cherrybombe.com.
Let's check in with today's guest. Lucie, so happy to have you on She's My Cherry Pie, and to chat chamomile cake with you and so much more.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Thank you for having me.
Jessie Sheehan:
I always love to ask guests about sort of an early sweets or baking memory, and yours are perhaps the most enviable and romantic of the lot. So can you tell us about helping your mom, who was a baking enthusiast herself, in your childhood French countryside kitchen near Bordeaux, located on a vineyard no less? Can you tell us about helping her make cake for guests at her B&B?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I mean, it's probably some of my best memories, so I'd love to talk about it. I definitely learned everything from baking from my mother. Like at all of other people, you just spend all your time in the kitchen, watching your mom do things. And I think for a long time my mom didn't let me do anything. She was just like, "You sit next to me and you watch me and you learn." And I was like, "Okay." That's a different way of teaching because usually mothers... I'll probably become like that. I actually would want my kids to get involved and probably do the things that I don't want to do. But my mom was like, "No, I want to do everything from a to Z," which I tend to do nowadays too. I think growing up on a farm where my mother had a bed and breakfast, so we'd have a lot of people from all over the world coming, it kind of forced her also to always have the best dinners, the best desserts going on.
So in a certain sense, every other day would have a new dessert, we'll have a new jam coming out. Because some people would stay almost for a week, for two weeks. They wouldn't want to have the same dinner every day, so you have to get creative. So I feel like I learned a lot from her on all those recipes, but also on the whole what people actually want from a cake as well and from a dessert.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. You also said that she taught you some cake tricks when you were little about how to achieve the softest cake or the tastiest cake. Do you remember or can you share any of her little tricks?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's more like a technique and a... I can almost say a lifestyle in my mom. It's very easygoing, especially when baking is supposed to be very to the T, to the teaspoon, if I can say. She's more of, "Put this and add that," and almost a cooking kind of sensation to her baking. And I feel like I took a lot of that in me and I don't take myself too seriously. So it's more in that sense of what she has in her pantry. She doesn't need to stop doing everything she's doing to go to the grocery store to follow a recipe to the T. She just makes it up. And I feel like I kind of bought that philosophy in my baking as well.
Jessie Sheehan:
So your mom is from New Zealand, and she spoke English to you at home. Her baking style was more English or New Zealand-style or Australian-style than French. I know that you love Victoria sponge cakes. I've read it's your fave. Did her background and where she came from culturally influence how you bake today?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, I think it's a great question actually, that I am still asking myself, because a lot of people associate me as French-speaking because I'm French. But I grew up with a Kiwi mother who is very influenced by the Kiwi baking. New Zealand was also colonized by England, so they're kind of intertwined in that sense. But what's interesting is if you dig deep into the New Zealand baking, there's so many different biscuits that you've never heard of, of cakes that you've never heard of. Or some even that you've heard of, and I grew up with them, but then my mom did her own spin with the more classic British scones and cakes with just whipped cream or heavy cream, or just a crème fraîche on top that's just a bit less sweet in that sense, but it feels very homemade and very... Everything's oozing out.
So in that sense, I was definitely influenced by that relax in this, in home baking. So the funny thing about Victoria sponge, it's a long conversation I've had with my mom recently because I always call it a Victoria sponge, and then people are like, "Well, it's not a classic Victoria sponge." It's a big debate, the Victoria sponge. It's the most classic desserts and you don't want to do anything different. The New Zealand that I call a Victoria sponge and my mom would make growing up was not a classic Victoria sponge. It's just called a sponge cake, and it's the most classic cake in New Zealand.
Jessie Sheehan:
Can you tell us how it differs?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I believe it's in the denseness of the cake. The New Zealand sponge cake is closer, I'd say, in that sort of Japanese cake that a bit more fluffy and airy. You just whip the egg whites for way longer. Whereas the Victoria sponge is a bit more of a denser cake with a lot of cream in it. So in that sense, they differ. So I grew up with the New Zealand sponge cake that I believe was a Victoria sponge cake until I moved to England, tried a Victoria sponge cake. I was like, "Something's wrong with that bakery's sponge cake." And they were like, "No, no, no." My mom was like, "No, it's just a different sponge cake." And then I moved to New York, and then you have the vanilla cake too, which is a different type of cake. So it's just interesting to see all those different sponge cakes I used to call Victoria sponge cake all the time.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. Even the cake we're going to talk about today is not a Victoria sponge, but it's that vibe because it ends up being filled with whipped cream and fruit and-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly. And even in the sponge itself, you'll see it's a mix of the Victoria sponge, the New Zealand one, the Japanese one, that sort of American-
Jessie Sheehan:
To make it your own, yeah.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
Because you whip those eggs for so long. Yes, yes, yes. So as you've said, you started making cakes professionally almost by accident. You were living in New York City. You were working as a gallerist in March of 2020. The world shut down. You couldn't literally go home to France, so you did figuratively by making cakes that reminded you of your home. And making them for your now husband's coffee shop, for pop-ups in your home kitchen, but they weren't necessarily French cakes. Can you describe the cakes that you were making and the vibe that you say those cakes had?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I think it's hard to... That's something I like to not put them in a category either, because there is that sort of French patisserie that's just very refined and almost has a perfection to it. And the glaze and the making, there's no cream sticking out, everything's perfect. And even if I wanted to do that, I just couldn't. So I was like, "This is not for me." But at the same time, like we were saying earlier, I didn't grow up with that. I grew up with more the luscious cakes. So I'd say my cakes are a good intertwine between, I'd say, the flavor and taste of French pastry that's not as sweet as what you would usually see in a regular cream cake. But with that sort of lushness of probably a more American style or a New Zealand, English style of cakes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Was it almost like an idea for a style came to you, or was it more like you started to make the cakes and it just sort of flowed out of you?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I think it just kind of flowed out on me in the sense of I started with base recipes from my mother, so I stole her initial recipes. Thank you, mom. And then I just really came up with the flavors that inspired me. I think I was also missing my countryside at the same time, and the garden, the vegetable garden, the herbs that we had over there. So I really wanted to pay tribute to that. It's interesting how you usually see... For example in perfumes, you see so many sort of notes that go well together and you'll never see it in pastries. And I was like, "Why not try and work with that as well in mine and have something that's less sweet, but more flavorful and interesting in the mouth as well."
I think that just comes back to growing up where you'd have this canteen at school where they would force you at a very young age to finish every single dish that you have at school. You'd start with a starter, main, cheese salad, dessert. The starter would usually be steamed beetroot, and I hate beets. And they gave me more because they're like, "We know you hate it, but you're going to learn how to like it." So then you have oysters, you'd have a little bit of pâté when it was Christmastime. So they'd force you to try so many different interesting, diverse flavors so your palate could adjust when you're a kid that then... I feel like it kind of helped to not just interested in sweetness or in very salty food. Just like that sort of in between and that it kind of piqued my curiosity in rosemary, in basil, and just in different flavors that you wouldn't usually find in baked goods, if that makes sense.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh, I want to go to school in France. Oh, I want pâté.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
The system is great for food.
Jessie Sheehan:
I don't like beets. Sorry, haters, but I don't like beets. But I want oysters and pâté for lunch in school.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I know. I mean, when I think about it now, it's amazing. And they were very strict on what's good, and fries only on Fridays every two weeks. But we were ready for it. We're like, "Okay."
Jessie Sheehan:
As for opening the brick and mortar From Lucie, I loved learning that it was Ashley and Gauthier of L'Appartement 4F who actually encouraged you to open a storefront and to do a Kickstarter and obviously think they were onto something. So when From Lucie opened, it was to lines around block. And you've said that the shop is sort of a love letter to the French countryside. Can you tell us, for those that have never been, tell us a little bit about the menu and a little bit about the vibe of the tiny delicious shop?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. Well, first I want to thank Ashley for forcing me for that, because it definitely helped. The inspiration for the bakery in itself was definitely the French countryside, the southwest of France. I know a lot of people usually go to Paris and other places or the southeast of France, and there is some inspiration there with the southeast of France where my grandma was living. So all the houses you can see more in Menton, right near the border of Italy, they're all kind of bright in color. And I was like, "I want to bring that sort of sunny light to New York as well, especially in winter when everything feels gray." Having that facade that's just bright and yellow, I think it just makes it nice for a baker as well. You want to just go in and have a baked good. But otherwise, most of it is inspired by where I grew up in the southwest of France, from the tiles to the big window that you see when you walk in that divides the kitchen to the front.
That's inspired by the glass house that we have at home. And then all the artworks are made by my friends. So everything feels very personal. And I was lucky enough to be able to do that because the bakery is so small that I didn't need much to make it what it is. I think if I had a bigger space, I would've had to work with someone else. But I was just able to bring in very personal items. Even when it comes to plates, most of the plates that I have that people eat on are plates that I actually bought in France at a secondhand shop that I love. I just bring them back in my suitcases and I wrap them in my sweaters so they don't break. I just love the idea of people walking in and feeling like they're walking into my home as well. And I like the idea that it's a small bakery and it's not this huge... I mean, I couldn't afford it either way, but people can walk in and see us baking in the back, because just the only kitchen we have. It's just tiny little tunnel.
Jessie Sheehan:
This could have been something from a long time ago, so it might not be true anymore, but I've read that you actually have a hand in every cake order. Is that true? All orders, at least if they're not baked by you, they're decorated by you?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, I try as much as I can. Obviously, I have an incredible team that I was able to train since I've started, and incredible managers who's also been able to train some of my teams. So I'm able to oversee when it comes to the decorating of bakers that go out the day of for the front. But I'm mainly focused at the moment on obviously doing new recipes seasonally because I want to keep going all the time. I just don't want to just be sitting on the same recipes all the time. I'm always curious in my brain. And any of the big tiered cakes, I still have a really hard time letting go of, so I'm decorating all of those. I'm going to the market for those. And then I'm just in the kitchen. Anyone's asking me a question and I'm training them still on that.
Jessie Sheehan:
We'll be right back. Today's episode is presented by California Prunes, the best kind of prunes out there. I am a big fan of California Prunes for two reasons. They're a great addition to your pantry when it comes to smart snacking and baking. You probably already know that prunes are good for your gut. You might even know that prunes are also good for your bone health. But what you really need to know is that prunes are absolutely delicious in both sweet and savory dishes. But don't just take it from me. Here's what some of the country's top culinary experts have to say. Chef Bronwen Wyatt of Bayou Saint Cake says, "Prunes have an earthy, winy richness that pairs beautifully with the tart fresh flavor of berries." Chef Kat Turner from Highly Likely in L.A. says, "They are an incredibly versatile ingredient that strike a great balance between sweet and savory. They're incredibly sensual." Ana Castro from Acamaya in New Orleans says, "Prunes have a sultriness to them. They are very rich and like velvet." I like to use prune puree in my baked goods to give them great flavor and also to replace some of the sugar, eggs, or fat in the recipe. It's super easy to whip up. Just blend prunes and water together and voila. For recipe ideas and more, be sure to check out the California Prunes website at californiaprunes.org. Happy baking and happy snacking.
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Now back to our guest. I was lucky enough to interview you for Cherry Bombe's Cooks & Books a couple of years ago, before From Lucie opened. You already said, "My dessert style, I'm influenced by the French countryside, by my upbringing." You wanted your cakes to feel homemade, et cetera, et cetera. Since opening From Lucie, would you say that shifted at all, or would you say it sort of stayed consistent since you started? Like that is your vision in your head and that's what ends up on the plate.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I mean, it was an incredible panel, by the way. I love that one.
Jessie Sheehan:
Aww.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It was very interesting and it was great to talk with everyone and get everyone's inspirations. I am forever changing as well, and my environment is changing, so the inspiration is still there. And I feel like it's important in anything we do to always have a bit of a guideline, especially when you feel like you're just... I've worked so hard on this that I still want to keep going and I want to create new things, but it's important for me to remember where I started and what was the meaningful side to it when I first started. So I think having that little guideline helps me to always stay on some sort of a general path. But I'd like to also welcome new things, new inspirations from where I go. I'm not limited to that, but there is that French guideline that I like to keep, for sure.
Jessie Sheehan:
I also read, which I loved, there's a common pattern or thread in your aesthetic, which is wildness.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Can you unpack, when you think wild, what you're imagining?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I feel like wild... Another word for it would also be whimsical in a certain sense. When I think of wild, I just think of those gardens... You know the movie “The Secret Garden?” I don't know why I love this movie. I grew up watching it. But it's just this wild garden. You just open the door and no one has seen it in like 20 years. And I kind of want my cakes to feel that way where the garden has been overgrown and using a lot of greenery. I like to do that as well. I use a lot of flowers, a lot of roses. But I like to just fill it with a lot of greenery as well, so it just feels very wild and feels like you can walk into a garden or a forest that no one has set foot in 10 years really.
Jessie Sheehan:
When I was little, “The Secret Garden” was my favorite book. And in fact, I named my childhood dog Dickon after the-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
No way.
Jessie Sheehan:
Wasn't he the little boy in the garden? So I literally-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Oh my god.
Jessie Sheehan:
I can't believe you just said “Secret Garden.”
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's such an inspiration.
Jessie Sheehan:
It is. So you have had the opportunity to make some cakes for some pretty fancy peeps, like Lorde and Anna-Sophia Robb and Harry Styles. Is that so stressful? Are you losing your mind when you're making a cake for someone like that, or are you just used to it?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
No, I think the only person I got... I mean, I'm excited every time. It's a lot of fun. Honestly, what's the most exciting, they've always been very open to me doing whatever I want. And most of them are based on the album, so I just have a picture of the album. And then it's so different from a cake that I'm able to just take colors and also the vibe from the album as well. So if it's a little quirky, I know my cake's going to be a little bit quirky. I have fun with that. And it's all in my brain. No one else is telling me what to do, so I get to be very creative with it. The only person I got really, "Ooh," about was Lorde, just because she's from New Zealand and, I don't know if I ever told you, that was the only album that I had in my little car.
So any breakups that I have or going out to a party or going to school, I would just have that in my car. I didn't have any service in my countryside, so the only CD I could listen to was her album, so I just know it by heart. So it was fun to make her cake and then just be able to meet her in person as well. The most fun one that I did recently actually was for Blake Lively for the new movie that's coming out, It Ends With Us, that I did a cake decorating class at her home with Colleen Hoover and her and two other cast members to just decorate cakes and go... Because the movie is based on a florist.
Jessie Sheehan:
That sounds incredible. I love that.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's just so nice and it was a great moment. It was very simple. So I just like actually breaking that ice and making something for a human being.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. Can you tell us anything about your new cookbook? I just saw on Instagram, you were recently in France doing some of the lifestyle shoots. Can you tell us?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, of course.
Jessie Sheehan:
Is it okay to chat about that?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Of course. I'm very excited about it. Yes. I recently just signed this cookbook deal, and I'm very, very excited because I never thought I could write a cookbook. And I think if you spoke to my incredible agent who found me, she would probably say I'm very, very unorganized. But I guess that's the way I make my cakes too, right? Wild mess.
Jessie Sheehan:
Wild mess. Whimsical.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It goes all the way into my mind. It's just fascinating because it's a whole different world that I just didn't know and I still don't really know how to tackle. But I love the process of it. It's a longer process than I thought it was, because it takes years to create a cookbook. But it's one where I just get to be very creative again and work with incredible people. I have this incredible co-writer, Lauren, who's very, very patient and I love her to pieces. And then I'm able to work with Lucia, who I've worked with in the past, who's this incredible young photographer who came all the way to France and shot for seven days at my home with no assistant. It was just us two just making it happen. And she works mainly on a film camera too, so it was a lot of patience and... It was very intimate, so I hope people will feel it in the cookbook when they see it.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. So you had two incredible weddings, one in France and one in New York, to honor both your and your husband's different cultures. I just wondered if you would tell us a little bit about your two wedding cakes. First, for your Long Island wedding with your husband's family, your mom and you made the cake in your Airbnb kitchen the night before the wedding for 400 people.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Crazy.
Jessie Sheehan:
It was a four-tier raspberry yogurt cake with basil Swiss meringue buttercream and raspberry jam, and you decorated it with orange and yellow flowers. So I wanted to know about the choice of the color of flowers because I know there was a reason, and also was that so stressful?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It was probably the worst idea I've ever had. Just a piece of advice, don't do that. It was a good challenge. But especially because the wedding was a four-day-long wedding and the cake was on the last date or last evening, and so I was exhausted by then. And I thought, "Oh, it'll be fine. I have the whole morning, afternoon." But then you have to get ready as well and you're just tired and my mom was tired and we were like, "Why are we doing this in the kitchen?" But at the same time, it was a good moment and we had a lot of fun, so I'll always cherish that. But yeah, just don't do it.
Jessie Sheehan:
And tell us about the orange and yellow flowers.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I was asking Gurpreet as well. I was just like, "What are the colors in general?" And on the Friday night, we decided to go with this big-
Jessie Sheehan:
Tell us a little bit about his heritage, just so people know.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, of course. My husband is originally Sikh. His parents are both Sikh. So he grew up in Queens. After, he moved to Long Island. And so, his parents are very religious in that sense, and I think it was very important to respect that religion and also the culture by having this wedding. Then my dad is also very religious. He's partisan. And we also have quite a strong culture, so we were like, "This is going to be a tough one to just put together." Because his parents are vegetarian and also don't drink alcohol. And my dad is a winemaker and has over 70 cows now, meat cows. So we're just like, "This is not going to work out." And so, we were very smart at doing two different weddings. We loved it because we're able to really embrace and go to the-
Jessie Sheehan:
Extreme.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
... to the extreme, exactly, of what the traditions are as well. So I had a lot of fun being able to just be part of this wedding and also let his family shine and do their thing. I just happened to be the bride.
Jessie Sheehan:
And are those orange and yellow colors traditional for...
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly. Traditional. I mean, they're traditional, I believe, in India in general as well, but a lot of Sikh weddings, you see them in drapes as well. Like marigolds. I couldn't find marigolds, to be honest. So I was just like, "I'm just going to go with the color palette." Again, I didn't take myself too seriously and I thought that would be fun. And they were all a little quirky, mainly because they were four days old because I had to leave the city four days later. But I thought it kind of played with it.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then for your French wedding, you did not make your own cake, thank goodness.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Nope.
Jessie Sheehan:
Your favorite local bakery made a giant piece-montée, which translates sort of loosely as mounted or assembled piece. Now, I know that it is similar-ish to like a croquembouche, but I also heard you say that that's not even a word necessarily that people would ever use in France-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Nope. Never.
Jessie Sheehan:
... to describe this dessert. But I also read that sometimes a piece-montée, which is a traditional wedding cake, is not even eaten.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Interesting.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Strange, right? But that's not the case.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
No, usually-
Jessie Sheehan:
Yours was edible, and has these classic wedding dessert flavors of salted chocolate praline and espresso coffee and lavender. Oh my gosh. Tell us, tell us. Was it pointy and tall, like a croquembouche?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It was very tall, very pointy, very large. And it was honestly the best idea I've ever had. I loved doing the tasting. This baker in Castillon is incredible. He's known mainly for his chocolates, but also for his piece-montée. I don't know if you would try to make piece-montée for someone else. I think it's the most stressful thing, especially if it's a wedding that's in August, which mine was in August. And it's the south of France and it's boiling hot. You're making a caramel to hold the piece up. You can't deliver at 6:00 PM if someone's eating it and taking out at 10:00 P.M. Because in French weddings, you eat your dessert midnight, which we did. So the kind lady from the bakery delivered the cake at 10:30 PM at night. And what happened, the interesting story it's this huge piece-montée, and she came on her own. She opened the trunk of the car, and my brother was there to receive it, and she was crying and my brother was like, "What is going on? What happened?"
And there was this tiny little choux that fell off of the piece-montée. There's a little hole. And she's like, "I'm so sorry, this has never happened in 20 years of business." My brother gave her a hug. He was like, "Can you not just put it back?" And said, "Just put it back in a hole?" She's like, "Yeah, no, but it's not professional." And he just gave her the biggest hug. He was like, "Oh my god, you're amazing. This is absolutely amazing. You're totally fine." So it was a very incredible, just... I was like, "I actually don't want any flowers on this one. I just want it to be the most classical piece-montée I've ever seen. And then the flavors could be more interesting." I like the traditional praline. Obviously, I think it's more of a French flavor, now that I think about it.
And then there was a espresso flavor, a dark salted chocolate, and then the lavender. I was like, "That's a good note to my lemon lavender cake." And the funny story is we got married at the end of the park, the dinner was at the very end of the park, and it's quite a long walk from my home. So two people had to hold it all the way down to the park, which was pretty scary. And I don't know if it's same in US, but in France you have a lot of weddings where they put those fireworks on cakes. And so my friend who was in charge of just making sure everything goes smoothly was like, "Yeah, it's a great idea. Put fireworks." And I asked previously, but someone else said no fireworks. And so I kind of see the cake coming down and I see the fireworks. I'm like, "Please, no." And she's like, "Oh my god, turn around. Take them off." I see them going back up with it... It was the funniest thing.
Jessie Sheehan:
Aww.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And then the nicest part is that usually you sit down and have dessert, but it was midnight and everyone's like, "We want to dance." People dance until 8 A.M., which is absolutely crazy and we love it. But no one wanted to go back and sit down for the choux. So then what we did is we just put it back up in the kitchen and just dismantle it and bought a huge tray on the dance floor. And you have pictures of Gurpreet just holding the tray around and everyone stuffing their face of choux. Because it's such a great, easy thing to put in your mouth while you're dancing.
Jessie Sheehan:
So it's almost like its tons of little profiteroles-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
... filled with a flavored cream, essentially, right?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
And you were using lots of different flavored creams.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Which I do at the bakery now as well. I make this little choux that I sell by little piece. And traditionally they come in a cream, a custard cream, a little bit in the middle. But it's not that I don't like that, it's a little heavier, so I started making them with infused whipped creams, which are a little bit more-
Jessie Sheehan:
So flavorful and-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
... like mousse, chocolate mousse in it.
Jessie Sheehan:
The recipe we're going to talk about is your chamomile cake with strawberry jam and vanilla bean whipped cream. So first things first, we're going to make the cake. We're going to heat the oven to 300 degrees. And is that convection?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I believe so.
Jessie Sheehan:
So it would probably be 325 in a regular oven, which is a little low for a cake often at 350.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I usually do all my cakes at 350. It's just the color tends to get a little uneven if I do it at 350. So 325 is the right one. And 300 is what I use at the bakery with the big oven.
Jessie Sheehan:
So first we're going to infuse some milk. It's whole milk, I assume?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we're going to infuse whole milk with loose-leaf chamomile tea leaves. Is there a brand of tea that you...
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Not specifically. I actually change it quite a bit, depending on what I find.
Jessie Sheehan:
Ideally infuse overnight in the refrigerator. But if you can't do that, if you're in a rush, at least 30 minutes on the counter. So if you're doing a short amount of time, you want a room temp infusion. And if you have longer, you put it in the fridge.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I would still say if you're boiling your milk, you're infusing, still let it sit for 15 minutes, uncovered, room temp, and then put it in the fridge. Don't put it straight from boiling to the fridge because that might cut the whole process.
Jessie Sheehan:
And if we have the time, is it always better to do the longer infusion?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I think so. I actually currently have a rose milk infusion in my fridge since yesterday. So when I come home, I'm going to do another rose cake.
Jessie Sheehan:
And you have a great tip about infusions, I think, in general, which is that because the leaves are going to absorb a lot of the milk after you've strained the leaves from the infused milk, you're going to have to add a little bit of regular milk just to make sure you have the right amount of liquid.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
To even it back up. Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Now we're going to sift some all-purpose flour, baking powder, and kosher salt, and set that aside. And then in a stand mixer fitted with a whisk attachment, we're going to whisk the eggs for about 30 seconds, just to break them up, I assume.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Mm-hmm. And room temp eggs.
Jessie Sheehan:
Room temperature eggs.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Very important.
Jessie Sheehan:
Because that will help everything emulsify, yes?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And it will fluff up the cake way.
Jessie Sheehan:
We're going to whisk the eggs for about 30 seconds on medium to medium high speed?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Medium speed is fine.
Jessie Sheehan:
Perfect. Then we're going to slowly pour in granulated sugar. Then we're going to whisk for about seven minutes on very high speed until the mixture triples in volume.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
And this is where I ask. This is a technique that's often used in a sponge cake. You're using it here for that same lift. And it's funny. Before we chatted, I wrote, "Does this type of cake have a name?" But now I know its name is Lucie. And it's like the Lucie Victorian sponge, et cetera.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And a Japanese sponge.
Jessie Sheehan:
Exactly.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
That airy-
Jessie Sheehan:
All of that. Meanwhile, while that's all mixing together for seven minutes, we'll put our chamomile-infused milk and some cubed butter in a saucepan. I wonder, do you have a particular brand of pan or saucepan that you guys like? Are they just heavy-bottomed?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, just heavy-bottomed ones actually, so they don't fall.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then we're going to cook over medium heat at this point?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Until the milk is foamy and the butter's melted.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
You don't want the milk bubbling though. Just slight foam.
Jessie Sheehan:
Just foam. Right.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
Almost like a simmer.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then we're going to strain to remove those tea leaves. We might add a little bit of extra milk if we've lost some. And I wondered, I noticed that the recipe doesn't call for vanilla. Is that because of the tea? You don't want the two flavors to fight?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly. The chamomile is so subtle that you don't want to be cutting it with vanilla.
Jessie Sheehan:
Because sometimes I find in recipes... Like if I make a lemon cake, I add vanilla because I think it helps pop the lemon. But lemon's already a strong flavor.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
I can imagine chamomile, it will just overpower it.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Chamomile will overpower it. And a little bit of salt just, I feel like, brings it out a bit more even.
Jessie Sheehan:
Perfect. Once our eggs have tripled, we'll add our flour mixture in three batches on low speed now with our paddle attachment. And now we're going to add a little bit of Canola oil. I'm going to ask why, but I think I know the answer. Is that for moisture?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. It just keeps moisture and it keeps your cake good up to four days almost of that. And it actually helps a little bit with the fluffiness.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. I was going to say that I love an oil-based cake. First of all, I love them because they're easy. You don't have to cream butter or room-temperature butter, et cetera. But I also love them because an oil-based cake can sit on your counter and still be moist-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
... because at room temperature, oil is still liquid.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And they're pretty spongy, the oil-based cakes. So it adds that sort of s sponginess, even though it's not a lot, but it helps as well. I don't know. I've tried it without and with, and I prefer it with, so.
Jessie Sheehan:
We're going to add that Canola oil to that butter and milk mixture. And we're just going to add about a fifth of that egg and flour mixture to the oil, butter, and milk and just fold together gently.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Fold it.
Jessie Sheehan:
And is that just so that you don't deflate all of the lift that you have in that batter?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly. And you pre-prepare it a little bit to go into the big mixture after.
Jessie Sheehan:
And now we'll fold gently, and I assume by hand at this point?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
With a spatula?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Mm-hmm.
Jessie Sheehan:
Do you have a favorite kind of... Or do you use those restaurant supply ones that have red handles and-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
The spatula actually I use is Great Jones spatulas.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, nice. Oh, I love Great Jones.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
There's a lot of Great Jones products.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love Great Jones. So now we're going to mix by hand with our Great Jones spatula. And then with the mixer on low, we'll add the oil and butter mixture back in. Just until combined?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Just until combined.
Jessie Sheehan:
Like you see that last streak of flour and you're done.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly. You just don't want to not see the flour. But you want to keep the airiness in it, so you don't want to overfold it either.
Jessie Sheehan:
And now we're going to prep our pans, or maybe we prepped them in the beginning. For cake pans, what brand of cake pan are you using?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I buy them on Webstaurant, but it's always been very resisted. I still have the same one since I've opened, so I recommend those.
Jessie Sheehan:
And typically, are they eight-inch or nine-inch pans?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Eight inch.
Jessie Sheehan:
Eight inch.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I like the eight inch. Is that a team thing? I feel like some people at team nine-inch and some people are team eight-inch.
Jessie Sheehan:
I feel like standard is eight to me.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Okay.
Jessie Sheehan:
And I feel like when people make nine-inch cakes, they only do two layers. When people make eight-inch cakes, they tend to do three.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Usually three?
Jessie Sheehan:
I often wonder about that too. I tend to write recipes calling for eight because I feel like it's more standard than nine.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Right. Because my mom only makes nine-inch cakes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Interesting.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Then I'm like, "Oh, I wonder if it's a..."
Jessie Sheehan:
I feel like in America... I don't know.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, interesting.
Jessie Sheehan:
I feel like it's an eight-inch thing. Do you grease with butter or with oil or with spray?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I do it with the spray oil at the bakery. It's easier under edges. And then I still put some parchment paper at the bottom. I used to cut it in a circle. And I recently found out that you can actually buy some pre-cut circled ones. Life saver.
Jessie Sheehan:
So easy.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
So I still put that at the bottom because it helps in case the cakes sticks.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. I knew they existed, but I never bought them. But the pre-cut parchment that fits in the half sheet pan...
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I know.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Life changing too, right?
Jessie Sheehan:
Heaven. Heaven. I highly recommend, peeps. Now we're going to bake. How long do we bake them for?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
So it depends on your oven again. That's an important one. Especially now that I'm baking it in the kitchen oven at the bakery. It's quite a different oven. But I would say usually 30 minutes and changing-
Jessie Sheehan:
Rotating.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
... rotating it after 15 minutes so you get that goldenness on both sides.
Jessie Sheehan:
I'm a big rotator. It's interesting. Maybe because I was trained in a bakery. But a lot of people don't rotate. And I just think there is no perfect oven that can make a perfect cake without rotating. But I'm not particular-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Do you also have the technique of rotating very quick before the cake deflates?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. Yes. And then I assume we let it cool because we don't want to fill these before we... So do you usually pop them out of the pan after 10 minutes?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I usually leave them in the pan for almost 20 to 30 minutes so they really cool down. Especially when it's a butter-based cake, I don't like to take them out too early because then I feel like they just dry out on the outside and become very crunchy. So I want to leave them until they're cooled and then take them out, let them cool for another 20 minutes on just a rack to make sure that the moistness doesn't just come on aboard straight away. And then once they're completely cool, I can start adding all the goodies on top.
Jessie Sheehan:
Now we're going to make the strawberry jam. Although, I imagine you could make this ahead of time.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Correct.
Jessie Sheehan:
You could make the day ahead or whenever you want.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Or months ahead, if you know how to seal jam.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. So we're going to place strawberries and granulated sugar in a pot. And I imagine it's the same thing we did in the cake recipe. We want something with a heavy bottom-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Correct.
Jessie Sheehan:
... over medium-high heat. And we're going to be skimming off the light pink foam as it rises to the top, stirring continuously so we don't burn our jam. And then you write, "When the middle of the jam thickens," that's when we'll test our jam. Is that because the edges may stay a little bit looser, so you want to look to the middle of the jam to know when it's set?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, I feel like the middle just has all of that texture. And then the sides, I usually always scrape the sides, because they always stick to the sides as well. So those are always a little looser. And then when you put your spatula in the middle, if it feels a little bit more resistant, a bit thicker, almost like that jelly sort of texture... I mean, obviously jam and the kind of jam that I make, it's even thicker later on by letting it set. So it won't get that very thick consistency that you can see when you're buying a store-bought jam at the end, but you still feel a bit more resistance and it's not as runny as it was.
Jessie Sheehan:
And I just realized. So you're not putting anything in the jam to help thicken it. The thickening is just coming from the cooking and the breaking down of the fruit.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Right.
Jessie Sheehan:
And is that the same for every fruit jam you make, or do some of them... do you have to add something?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
So you're talking about gelatin, right?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, something like that. Or pectin, do people put in?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, pectin. I don't know why, I just don't want to work with that. And I try to do anything to not work with it and find different solutions. So no, for so far I've never actually used it in my cakes or in jams though.
Jessie Sheehan:
We're going to take a spoonful of the jam and put it on a cold plate. And when you say cold plate, are you literally chilling the plate in the refrigerator or you just mean a plate in your kitchen that's not warm?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. So didn't used to do that. That's Katie, the bakery manager technique that she brought with her, and I think it's absolutely amazing. She puts in the freezer. She puts a small little plate in the freezer for a little bit, and then she brings it out. And ideally it can be a cold spoon, but just a metal spoon. You put the-
Jessie Sheehan:
Like something you'd eat your cereal with?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even it can be a teaspoon if you want, but ideally just like a cereal spoon. And then you put the jam on the plate and then you tip the plate and then see if it drips a lot or not if it stays, if that makes sense.
Jessie Sheehan:
Ah, yes.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's more of a visual thing and-
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. But I understand.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I'm actually hoping to it into the cookbook, so if you can then see it visually, the drip.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, yes. Oh, I love that. And if it stays, you're done.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
Is a little bit of a drip okay, or do you really-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly. A little bit of a drip is fine. But if it's running off the plate, then you know it's not there yet.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, I love that.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And honestly, even just the back of a spoon... I know that's a bit more of a classic one. But if the back of the spoon is a bit more opaque from it, then if it just gets really runny and see-through, then you know you still have a little bit to go.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, you're dragging the back of the spoon through the jam to see if it's set. And if it sort of sticks there to the back of the spoon, you're good to go.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. I love that.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's a homemade technique. It's great.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but it's so good. Are there different levels of a set jam? Do you have some applications where you want it looser, or do you cook all of your... Because I know jam is a big... It's a loosey thing. No matter the berry or no matter the fruit, you're looking for the same consistency.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I would say yes and no. It actually depends. Sometimes, unfortunately it happened without wanting it, it became a bit more firm. And then you just know that you can actually use that for a certain type of cake as well as you're making. Because sometimes if you have a jam that's a little bit more runny that looks nice, for example, on a Victoria sponge and you want that runniness, you don't particularly want it in a wedding cake where you want it to really stay inside the cake, even though you do those borders. The buttercreams, I feel like having one that's a little bit more... I wouldn't say sticky, but you know what I mean, a bit more of a structure-
Jessie Sheehan:
Set, or firm.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, it's a bit more firm, is a good one. But I feel like when I do, for example, the pear ginger jam, you want a bit more of a firm one too as well. I like to have really bits of pears in it. So that one I would say has a bit more firmness. And the raspberry or the strawberry jam will be a little bit more runny, if that makes sense.
Jessie Sheehan:
So once the jam is set, we'll add a pinch of salt for flavor and then a small squeeze of lemon for brightness and pull it off the heat and just let it come to room temperature, or even... Do you want it cold before you're going to work with it?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, cold is ideal.
Jessie Sheehan:
Cold. Now we're going to make our vanilla bean whipped cream. So we're going to pour cold heavy cream in our stand mixer bowl with some sifted powdered sugar and some vanilla bean paste. Is there a brand of vanilla that you guys like?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Nielsen Massey or Heilala?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
No, it's this incredible woman from New Zealand, actually, who I met recently.
Jessie Sheehan:
Is it Heilala?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yes. It's Heilala.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, I met her at Jubilee.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Oh, she's incredible. She came to the bakery once and... Her farm is in Tongan, which is right outside of New Zealand. We were just talking about how my whole family's from New Zealand, and then I spoke to my aunt who lives in New Zealand. She actually worked in Tongan for many years and I believe on the same sort of farm situation. So she knew her and I was like, "Wow, this is such a small world." So we've been using some of her vanillas, mainly the vanilla bean paste because it's just so good.
Jessie Sheehan:
Now we're going to whisk the cream in the stand mixer. And you say, "Until just starting to curdle." But do you mean almost like stiff peaks?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly. Stiff peaks, but you past the stiff peaks. I love using words like that that sound like, "Oh, it shouldn't be like that," but it actually should be like that. It's the same with my Swiss meringue buttercream where I like it airy, bubbly, which is not supposed to be that way. But I like those situation where it's a little bit in between. And I feel like the curdled... I mean, it's not actually curdled, but it's past a stiff peak. So a touch curdled where it actually will stay firm longer. I just love it.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, no, I can picture that absolutely perfectly. It's not gross at all in a curdled way, but you can almost... This is going to turn people off, but it's not this. It almost looks a teeny bit lumpy-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
Or it has a funny texture where you've gone...
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, I love that that's a choice.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I know.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, I love that. I love that.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And the vanilla bean just adds a little touch too.
Jessie Sheehan:
So now to assemble, we'll take one layer of the cake and I assume we'll place it... Oh, maybe we don't. We don't place it upside down. Do we cut off the top?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I mean, usually this one doesn't dome too much. And I think the oil is part of that reason it doesn't dome as much. But I used to flip it, but I decided not to anymore for this one. And I do like to cut the top layer of the bottom layer, if that makes sense, if you're doing a two-layer one, just because then the cream and the jam grip a bit better on the cake. Because you'll see that your dome is a little bit more-
Jessie Sheehan:
Smooth?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Smooth, exactly. So I feel like having that actual sponge of the cake and also the jam... I'm that kind of team, I like the jam to really ooze in the sponge of the cake. And a lot of people like to put the buttercream first and then the jam on top, so it doesn't sponge in. But I like when it sponges in.
Jessie Sheehan:
So you'll put the jam first and then the whipped cream on top?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then the second layer on top.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love. And then just powdered sugar.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Just a dusting of powder. Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh. I wondered if you had any slicing tricks. Because I feel like when you slice and you press down, everything squirts out the sides. Do you use a serrated knife or do you saw gently?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I mean, I feel like that's part of-
Jessie Sheehan:
The joy?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
... the fun of it. I think everyone should experience that because having the jam and the cream oozing out everywhere, then you have to lick it, it's a whole experience. But if you are trying to be a bit more formal and impress people, I would say the classic hot water knife. You have boiling water and then just have a good sharp knife that's not serrated, that's just a thin, long knife. I don't go flat, if that makes sense. I point the knife upwards and then I kind of tippy-toe outwards and then I go down.
Jessie Sheehan:
At the end.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
If that makes sense.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. Yeah.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I go down at the end. And then I like to go out. It's hard how to explain if you don't have a video.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. I know.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
But tippy-toe at the end and then just take it out without lifting it again. Because if you lift it again, then you'll have the jam and the jam and the cream will kind of mix in the cut-
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, so it's like go down with the knife.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Go down.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then slide the knife out-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Slide it out. When it's down.
Jessie Sheehan:
... parallel to the surface.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly. So you still get the cream and then the division between the cream and the jam. Because if you bring it back up, then everything's kind of smudging along. It's not as pretty.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. And is this the kind of cake you would serve by the slice in the bakery?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I currently actually have it at the bakery.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, I love. So there are obviously no flowers on this cake. Is that hard for you when you have a cake that you can't put a flower on?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I mean, I feel like sometimes it's nice to actually take a break from flowers. I like that I actually use, in a certain sense, a flower in the cake and not just on top of the cake. So the chamomile is kind of... I mean, I can call that a flower, right?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, of course.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I grew up having that in the garden and putting in salads as well. So I was like, "I just really want to incorporate it in a cake." And once in a while I have people coming in being like, "I just want a good old slice of cake. Can you give me that? I don't need to treat myself to a flower today." I was like, "I got you." I have two or three cakes that don't have the flowers on top and the locals usually come back for those as well, which is nice.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. It's funny that you should mention salads because I wanted to talk a teeny bit just about decorating with flowers and your... kind of like your signature. And I read that perhaps the inspiration in some ways comes from the fact that your mom taught you to put flowers in your salads.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then it was like, "Well, if it can be in a salad, why can't it be in a cake?"
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
In a cake, exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that, Lucie.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And also how much flowers do bring flavors to a lot of things. I think people don't think of that, usually add salt or pepper to a salad. But I feel like camomile can bring that herby pepperness to a salad, like a grape hyacinth. Actually, those little small ones that you can add the buds, those bring a lot of pepperness to the salad and also beautiful color and aesthetic side. But I think just bringing also a rose on top of a cake, the smell and the scent of it goes with the jam and the cream. It just kind of goes all well together.
Jessie Sheehan:
And the trick is just nothing is toxic, obviously, but not everything is edible.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
So some of the things are purely decorative, but if somebody put it in their mouth, they'd be fine. It's just not necessarily known for its flavor.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly. I only work with pesticide-free and organic flowers, and so most of the flowers I use are actually edible. Most of them. If you wanted to, a rose flower on top, a mum, even a peony is edible. If you take a petal... I always tell people, "Just don't eat the whole flower at once." Lot of people walk in and they're like, "Can I eat the whole flower?" I'm like, "Well, you can. Well, good luck with that. Just eat a petal," for example. But for example, on my tiered cakes, I use flowers that aren't edible, they're toxic in itself. But brides would ask me... They're like, "This is my bouquet," or, "This is the flowers I want to have." So what I use, and I use them even on the bigger eight-inch birthday cakes, I use water pipettes. You know those pipettes that florists use as well?
Jessie Sheehan:
Mm-hmm.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I introduce the actual stem in the water pipette so they don't actually touch the cake. And the stem goes straight into the buttercream, and then I just cover it. So at no time is the flower touching the cake and that people have to eat it.
Jessie Sheehan:
When we spoke a couple of years ago for Cooks & Books, I know you had said that, at that point, you were buying short stems at the market that would otherwise be thrown out. Is that still what you're doing? Or I also read maybe now you have a specific florist that you work with?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I mean, I actually work with many different people and farmers in itself. But I have a florist in the Lower East Side who I've worked with since the beginning who's helped me source different flowers. She usually has a little bundle of flowers at the end of the week, and I just walk by when I go home and she's just like, "There you go. Just take those."
Jessie Sheehan:
Aww.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
So it's kind of like a good sort of recycling, in a sense. And they're all really nice and fresh. It's just they're way too short for her to put it in a bouquet.
Jessie Sheehan:
And do you have any just general tips or tricks for working with flowers that you could share with listeners?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I think I could talk about that for days, but I think the basics... I really had to learn from scratch, to be honest. A lot of YouTube videos. I bought a lot of books, but then it's not a lot of books that have the baking and the food and how to work with flowers within food. So I'm still working out how I can introduce that in my cookbook to make it easy for people. But I think just working with flowers that have a stem that are a little bit more firm, then you know that your flower is going to last a little longer if you're trying not to put water pipettes. Or just put those flower tapes as well at the end of the stem, so then you don't have that water from the flower oozing out on your cake.
You don't want that. But otherwise, just being very kind with flowers and probably buying flowers that are closed when you get them and letting them sit for a day or two. And then you really have a beautiful open flowers versus buying one that's already very open that you might use in a day, and then it won't last a second on the cake. And then just opening them up, even yourself with your hands. Like the roses, for example, I like to just grab the petals and bend them and just have a very open rose so it takes more space on the cake. So there's a lot of little tricks like that that work.
Jessie Sheehan:
And what about petals versus an entire flower? Is that just what moves you and whether...
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I mean, I feel like usually the petals I use on cakes is petals that actually fell from the flower. And I'm like, "This is just meant to be," and so I just place them in the little holes that are left on the cake. But most recently, I've actually, when I sell slices at the shop, I like to put petals straight on the cake. Because then it makes it easier for people to actually have a bite of it without having to take the flower. But there's two teams. Some people like the whole flower and some people like the petals, so at least they get to pick.
Jessie Sheehan:
Thank you so much for chatting with me today, Lucie. And I just want to say that you are my cherry pie.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Aww, thank you so much for having me. It was so fun.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's it for today's show. Thank you to Nonino and California Prunes for supporting this episode. Don't forget to subscribe to She's My Cherry Pie on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. And tell your baking pals about us. She's My Cherry Pie is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network and is recorded at CityVox studio in Manhattan. Our producers are Kerry Diamond, Catherine Baker, and Elizabeth Vogt. Our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu, and our content and partnerships manager is Londyn Crenshaw. Thank you so much for listening to She's My Cherry Pie, and happy baking.