Skip to main content

The Future of Food: Detroit

The Future of Food: Detroit Transcript

Kerry Diamond: Hi, Bombesquad. Welcome to the Future of Food, a Radio Cherry Bombe miniseries. I'm your host, Kerry Diamond. The Cherry Bombe team toured America last year and traveled from Seattle to Chicago to Dallas and lots of places in between to ask women what the future of food means to them. Throughout this series, you're going to hear talks and panels that we recorded on each stop. You'll hear from restaurant revolutionaries, pastry pioneers, and even self-proclaimed unicorns. These members of the Bombesquad shared their vision for what's next in their world and the world around them. I hope this series inspires you to stop and think about your future. Thank you to Kerrygold for supporting our tour, and this miniseries. Kerrygold is the iconic Irish brand known for its award-winning butter and cheese made with milk from grass-fed cows.

Kerry Diamond: For this episode, we're heading to Detroit, Michigan, the iconic American town undergoing a radical transformation. We recorded this show at Good Cakes and Bakes, the delicious bake shop owned by our wonderful host, April Anderson. We're going to get things started with a talk from Amanda Saab, owner and baker at the Butter Bear Shop in Livonia, Michigan, and the co-founder of My Muslim Neighbor. Before we get this show on the road, let's check in with our sponsor.

Kerry Diamond: Since Kerrygold gave us the opportunity to travel around the US and hear from women all over the country, we thought it would be fascinating to take a virtual detour to Ireland, to hear how some of their delicious products are made. One of the cheeses we love in particular is the award-winning Kerrygold Cashel Blue Irish Farmhouse Cheese. So, we placed a call to Sarah Furno, a farmhouse cheese maker who happens to know the history of how this very unique cheese came to be, and who happened to create it.

Sarah Furno: Well, in the early '80s, what you did is you went to the library and you got a recipe book. So, she went to the library and asked for a recipe book for making cheese, and it took three months to arrive, because most people in Ireland weren't making cheese in the farmhouse kitchen. Maybe a bit of butter, but not cheese.

Kerry Diamond: The she in the story isn't Sarah, but her mother, Jane Grubb, who invented the recipe for the famous Kerrygold Cashel Blue Irish Farmhouse Cheese.

Sarah Furno: She started experimenting in my granny's jam pan. Originally she made hard Cheddar-style cheeses. Then she thought, well, why not have a bit of fun and add a bit of spice in there? So, she started making blue cheese. She was the first person in Ireland to try to do that.

Kerry Diamond: Want to try this groundbreaking blue cheese? Or maybe Kerrygold's savory shredded Cheddar cheese? Or the garlic and herb butter? Visit to check out the store locator and find out where you can purchase any of their award-winning cheese and butter. That's

Kerry Diamond: Let's welcome a good friend of Cherry Bombe's, Amanda Saab.

Amanda Saab: So, I was asked to give a five-minute talk about what I believe the future of food is. When I thought about that, I thought, "I don't need to invent anything, or be innovative in the way I'm thinking about food. I can simply look at our past, and how we've always come together at the dinner table." Communities connecting through neighborhood bloc parties, neighbors dropping in for a cup of tea and spending hours together, talking and sharing, learning and growing, and being vulnerable, and leaving with their feeling, and that's okay.

Amanda Saab: I'm not going to give you my autobiography, because we only have five minutes, so I'll start when I was 16 years old and I was questioning authority and developing my sense of self. It was at that time that I decided to start wearing hijab. It was also at that time that I decided I had to have a KitchenAid stand mixer, because all the really cool chefs on Food Network had one, too.

Amanda Saab: It was that same KitchenAid stand mixer that helped me commission cakes for my family and friends who were way too generous and kind with my very uneven Topsy-Turvy, they weren't supposed to be Topsy-Turvy cakes.

Amanda Saab: After graduating social work school from Wayne State University, Hussein and I moved to Seattle, where I adjusted to 360 days of gloom and rain. I started taking public transit and eating granola every day. It was also at that time that I started my career as a hospital social worker. I was working in the neonatal intensive care unit with families who were facing some of the hardest moments of their lives, and I would carry that secondary trauma with me when I went home, and then I would bake, and I would take pictures of it, and my family are like, "Okay, you can't live that far away, share pictures, without recipes."

Amanda Saab: So, I started a blog. was born six years ago. And after that, I decided I want to take this a step further, because there's nothing more stressful than a career in social work, until I got to cooking for Gordon Ramsey on national TV. And because I was the first Muslim woman in hijab who appeared on a cooking show, I received a lot of press. Most of it was super positive, but then came the internet trolls. I wasn't expecting that, because I'd never experienced Islamophobic trolls before. Many told me I should just block them and ignore. But, instead, I decided I wanted to challenge them and see where these beliefs were coming from.

Amanda Saab: Years after that, president Donald Trump called for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims coming into this country. As an American-born Muslim woman who wears hijab, I initially cried, and then I checked myself, and was like, "You're not going to cry about this. You're going to do something about it." So I turned to Hussein and I said, "I'd love to invite our neighbors over for dinner so they can get to know us, as Muslims." He said, "Okay. That sounds great." And I was like, "And our colleagues." He's like, "Okay. Yeah. Sure." "And strangers on the internet." And there was a long pause, and he's like, "If you think that's going to work, then let's do it."

Amanda Saab: So, we did, and we hosted our first dinner, with 18 people, that we couldn't fit in our condo, so we had to have it in the clubhouse, and we quickly learned that 18 is way too many people to have a dialog with. So, we hosted a second and a third, and a fourth, and then there was a woman who showed up at our door and said, "Whoa, your house is totally normal." And Hussein said, "No, the camels are tied out in the back."

Amanda Saab: It was at 1:00 in the morning, yeah, sometimes our dinners go that long, that that same woman said, "I have some things to share," and she said, as she looked me straight in the eye, "I once hated you." "What?" "Yeah. I watched MasterChef and thought, oh, one of those people is on an American cooking show." But as she worked with her pastor and a therapist for three years, she came to overcome her fear of Muslims, and found herself with an invitation to dinner with her Muslim neighbor. She not only came but she felt safe enough to share her vulnerability, and feel like she wouldn't be judged by this group of people.

Amanda Saab: We've since hosted 22 dinners in four states, and will soon be releasing our toolkit so everyone can host their own dinners, wherever they are. But it's that same connectivity and food that allowed me to start my bakery in Livonia, a community that's mostly white, and they've accepted me and embraced me, and we've been able to connect through my cookies, and our beautiful cakes. And I look at our team and I'm just so happy and excited to be able to continue to share, in a different way, but still connecting through food. Thank you.

Kerry Diamond: Thank you, Amanda, for sharing your story with us. That little one you heard in the audience? That was Amanda's baby daughter. If you find yourself near Livonia, Michigan, go visit Amanda at her Butter Bear Shop.

Kerry Diamond: Before we get to our panel, let's return to my conversation about the award-winning Cashel Blue Irish Farmhouse Cheese. I wanted to know more about Beechmount Farm, Sarah's family farm, so I asked her to tell us a little bit more about this magical place.

Sarah Furno: We have a lot of trees. That's why it's called Beechmount. We've got lovely, deep soils here. It's a very traditional farming area in Ireland, with loads of small meadows on the farm, and loads of hedgerows. The cows, out in the fields. I've also got ponies and dogs and hens and all the things you'd expect to have on a farm. We live on the farm, so we want to keep it a nice environment to be in.

Kerry Diamond: And, in addition to the beautiful landscape, Sarah also has one of the best commutes.

Sarah Furno: Our farmhouse is in the middle of the farm, and then I don't have far to go to work. I've only got to go just across the farmyard and down at the cheese dairy.

Kerry Diamond: It sounds like Sarah has the perfect situation to go with the perfect cheese. Want to try Kerrygold Cashel Blue Irish Farmhouse Cheese for yourself? Or maybe you'd like to try Kerrygold's famous butter, or their new slices and shreds? Visit to find a stockist near you.

Kerry Diamond: Ready for our panel? We'll be talking to Lisa Ludwinski of Sister Pie, Molly Mitchell, owner of Rose's Fine Food, Dorothy Hernandez, the writer, editor and founder of Sarap, April Anderson of Good Cakes and Bakes, and Kimberly Chou, of the Food Book Fair and Allied Media Projects.

Kerry Diamond: We kick things off with Lisa and the idea of sisterhood in business.

Lisa Ludwinski: There's so many things that I could say, but I think I'll talk about the thing that seems the most recent in my thought process, which is, I think, taking the ego out of food. There have been so many things that we've been working on at Sister Pie, and questions that have come up with me writing the cookbook, and talking with folks about the process of that, and I realize that now all of the ways that food becomes negative in the restaurant industry is when an ego is attached to it at the very heart of the restaurant.

Lisa Ludwinski: So, someone said to me the other day, I can't remember who it was, but how can you let your employees make the soup every day? Aren't you freaking out that it's not going to taste exactly how you want it to taste? And isn't that a reflection of who you are and what you're representing? It was in a moment like that that I realized, that's not what this is about. It's not about what people think about what I'm doing, or what people know about what I'm doing, or what I'm sharing with people. It's about being able to share those things without having a personal egotistical stake in it.

Kerry Diamond: Well, I think that's even reflective in the name that you chose.

Lisa Ludwinski: Yeah.

Kerry Diamond: Sister Pie. Why did you choose that name?

Lisa Ludwinski: It's a nickname that my younger sister and I started calling each other in college. I think, for us ... My sister and I don't call each other that any more, because now there's a lot more going on with it, because I think it does really now reflect the idea of sisterhood in business, and what that can mean. And I think I've learned, through running the business, that it can mean a lot of different things, and that I'm not the only creator of the definition of what sisterhood is.

Lisa Ludwinski: So, we have a really great staff of women that make that story change all the time, and I think allowing all of their voices, and opinions, and thoughts, to come to the table, is another example of taking the ego out of things, and knowing, "I'm not the authority on this all the time. I can be wrong on a lot of stuff." And they tell me about it, so ...

Kerry Diamond: So, Molly, how about you? What is the future of food for you?

Molly Mitchell: The future of food, for me, is having good food be accessible on a larger scale. Basically lifting up people who are making good food, and growing good food, and businesses that are taking care of their employees. I feel like that's the direction we're headed in, and I hope that it gets embraced on a larger scale.

Molly Mitchell: I keep reading about just profits plummeting for large-scale food operations, and I hope that we're moving towards a future where people don't have to think so much about food on top of the rest of their lives. They can just go to a store and know that they're buying something that is good. You know?

Kerry Diamond: Dorothy, how about you?

Dorothy Hernandez: So, the future of food to me is ... Going back to why I started Sarap, it wasn't so much I couldn't find great Filipino food here, it was ... I'm originally from Chicago, so when I moved to Detroit, I didn't see that many Filipino restaurants compared to bigger cities. So, I wanted to raise awareness of this food that I love so much.

Dorothy Hernandez: It started off like that, but over the years it's evolved more into using Sarap is a platform for personal storytelling. Just tying the dishes that we do to a story, and, kind of like what Amanda does, I think that's the future. Especially since we live in such tough political times, and there's so much animosity, and hostility. I think bringing people to the table over food, I think that would be the future.

Dorothy Hernandez: We don't do a lot of events now, but when we do, there's always a storytelling component to it. I recently did an event with the Shady Ladies Literary Society, and if you aren't familiar with it, it's just this amazing concept where Amy Haimer brings together a female chef and an emerging female author and pairs them up for a night of readings and dinner collaborations. So I would love to do more things like that, and I would love to see more events like that. Women collaborating, telling stories over good food.

Kerry Diamond: What brought you to Detroit?

Dorothy Hernandez: My now-ex-boyfriend, and a job that I don't have any more. But it worked out. Don't worry. I'm good.

Kerry Diamond: You're doing okay.

Dorothy Hernandez: I'm doing better than okay without either of them.

Kerry Diamond: So, April, how about you? Future of food.

April Anderson: I see the future of food as being kind of like what Molly said. More where people aren't having to think about it as much, and more about people asking the question, and knowing who the maker of the food is, where the food was grown at, how it's processed, and made. More knowing the story behind the food. Getting out of having so many processed foods and getting back into where you cook the meal at home, and you knew where the tomatoes came from, you knew where the onion came from, you knew where the lemon came from, the meat. You knew that the meat was killed in a humane way.

April Anderson: Just going back to old country type cooking. I really feel food is going back there, and I see that here at the bakery, when people coming in, they connect to us because we're able to answer the questions that they ask, and then they get to talk to us. Right? The people who are actually making the food. It's not like it's in the grocery store and they have no idea who made it or how it was processed. They actually get to come here, and sometimes they come early, and they get to see us in the process of making the food. So, yeah, I really think that's exactly what food is going back to. People want to think where it's coming from and how it's being made.

Kerry Diamond: So, Kimberly, what are you doing in Detroit?

Kimberly Chou: What am I doing here? The first one is I am the new Communications Director at Allied Media Projects-

Kerry Diamond: Oh, nice.

Kimberly Chou: ... which is an amazing nonprofit based here in Detroit, but with roots and branches throughout the world, where we bring people together around media-based organizing. And that's building pirate radio, that's teaching kids to DJ, that's making art, or that's making food and storytelling and sharing it, in order to create a more just and creative world.

Kimberly Chou: That's how I started spending more time in Detroit, is being involved with the big conference that they produce every year in June, though I originally grew up not far from here, about 10 miles north. And AMC kept bringing me back, and now AMP is why I'm going to be here a little bit more permanently for a little while in the foreseeable future. It's also how I met April, at a session at the AMC in June, co-hosted by Julia Turshen, another member of the Bombesquad, great cookbook author. How I saw Dorothy present a session about for us, by us storytelling, basically, in a landscape where many cultural food narratives are often whitewashed in the mainstream media.

Kimberly Chou: So, to answer the second question, which I think is probably a take off of the original question, if I can even say something that's a little different than these great answers that everyone has given so far, or just to re-emphasize and lift those up again, is that I think the future of food will go back toward the history of food. As you were saying, that it was for us, by us. There was less ego there. It was more collective, where people knew the food that they were touching, and they were making, and they were sharing, and that they were doing it for community. And that they were able to talk about it and share it out that way.

Kerry Diamond: So, I want to know how you plan to be the change that you would like to see, or the future that you would like to see. So, Lisa, we'll throw it back at you. What are-

Lisa Ludwinski: I think, especially, piggybacking off of what my first answer was, I think trying to be transparent in everything we do. Something that I was really inspired by when I was first learning about Zingerman’s mission, and even in just my interactions with the folks that work there, I email them and ask them, "What do you do if this is happening with your employee?" And they write me back immediately and share their document on that. And just this idea that nothing I can give you is too much information. Lifting other food businesses up that way.

Lisa Ludwinski: So, I think challenging myself to be as open with my experience, and with my knowledge, as I possibly can, and encourage that amongst my employees as well. As a boss, and as the person who created the recipes, there is this period of time where it feels like, "I'm the only one who knows how to do this one thing, and I'm going to keep being the only one who knows how," but at a certain point it's so much more powerful to give a bunch of people that experience and skill and trust. So, that's how I'm personally working on it, and hopefully trying to share that as I speak about it, too.

Kerry Diamond: All right. Molly. Your turn. How are you going to be the change?

Molly Mitchell: We just try to continue to commit to figuring out where we're going to get things, and making sure that it's the best possible thing we can get. We had a question recently about whether the meat that we were buying was actually coming from where the people said it was coming from, and so, we had to have this really awkward interaction with the people who were sourcing it. Then we went out and just found somebody who is braising chickens, pasture raising, and is really passionate about it, and now we just buy directly from her.

Molly Mitchell: Just doing those little things, and committing to other people who are trying to do things in a way that has a positive environmental impact, and is not making things worse, essentially. So, just trying to stay present in the business, and make sure that it's like you really are doing what you're saying you're doing. And that you're also collaborating with people who are doing that as well.

Kerry Diamond: Dorothy, how do you want to be the change?

Dorothy Hernandez: Just making sure, using my skills and passion for telling stories, to make sure that they get told, especially the ones that don't have a voice. What I was talking around the AMC panel that I did, with another local writer, Serena, and I call her my Chicago counterpart, Sarah Lynn, who also has a Filipino popup in Chicago. Or, she used to, she kind of stepped back from that.

Dorothy Hernandez: Making sure that when we see stories about our food and our culture that aren't being represented correctly, just to push back on that. We talked a lot about how Bon Appetit just messes up everything that's Asian, seems like. You know, just making sure that we're there to tell those stories properly.

Dorothy Hernandez: When I used to work at a local magazine, I would always try to make sure that I was reaching out to writers of color who could speak to the diversity, the great food diversity that we have in Detroit. And sometimes when you don't have that diversity on staff, it's pretty obvious. So just constantly pushing for that change, whether I'm in a position to make that change, or just using my platform as a writer to tell those stories.

Kerry Diamond: Mm-hmm (affirmative). What can everyone in this room, as diners, do along those same lines?

Dorothy Hernandez: Oh, that's a good question. First of all, just supporting businesses owned by people of color. Like April's amazing bakery here, or Amanda's bakery. Just going there, learning more about the people who run the business and their stories, too.

Kerry Diamond: April, how do you want to be the change?

April Anderson: As I was saying, about being able to tell the story, know where the food is coming from. So, one of the things that we do here, now, because I am such a control freak that I want to hold on to everything, I had to learn to start delegating and giving stuff away, right?

April Anderson: But then, we're doing a recipe, and at one point I used to be like, "Oh, we're going to try this recipe." Without telling why we're trying it. Where this came from? Because we are trying so hard to get a certain type of biscuit we want to make, and why I want to make the biscuit? Because it reminds me of my grandmother. She used to make these biscuits. We used to eat it with dessert. But I wanted to be able to make that here at the bakery. So, we've been trying that.

April Anderson: But, being able to sit down with my assistants and be like, "This is what I want to try," or asking them to come out with something. So it's always interesting when they come up with it. But just being able to share, and also being able to explain, like I said, why we got that recipe, so when a customer ask that, they don't have to look for me to answer it, because I'm trying so hard — we redid our website and everything — I'm trying so hard to put myself in the back, because I want Good Cakes and Bakes to be Good Cakes and Bakes, but it doesn't have to be April Good Cakes and Bakes. Right? It can be everybody here, everybody who works here is Good Cakes and Bakes, so them knowing the story of why something happened, why we do this, why we are so adamant about making sure we're not using Styrofoam, why are we so adamant about making sure that we're composting stuff? Being able to answer those questions and tell the story themselves.

April Anderson: It empowers the staff here to be like they really are part of it. So that was one of the things that we've done, and we are still, there are so many things that we want to do. Being able to empower our staff, and making sure that everybody knows the story, and knows why we're doing something. Whenever we make a change, explain it, why we're making that change. Why we're doing this. Yeah.

Kerry Diamond: So, why are you adamant about doing all those things?

April Anderson: There's several reasons. About organic, it started because of my nieces. My nieces were developing so early, it felt like it was because of the milk and the meat that they were eating. And Michelle was like, "Oh, you should kind of do organic." And then composting because we want to have a little footprint. We want to have as little carbon footprint, we want to leave here from Good Cakes and Bakes, and making sure we never have to use Styrofoam, because we know that just sits there, right? When we leave this Earth, it'll still be sitting here.

April Anderson: Making sure that we are being proactive about it. So, we are definitely a triple-bottom business. Profit is last. People, planet is first and second. But making sure that the things that we're doing here speaks that without us having to say it. We want you to be able to know, when you come in here, that we are about composting, recycling, because you can see it in the type of packaging that we use. You'll be able to tell that, right? We want you to be able to see. You can see behind our counter that we compost. You can see a bunch of eggs here. You can see our coffee grinds. You see that. But people being able to see that without us telling it. That's what makes your story, when you don't have to tell it. People can actually see and know that that's what you're doing.

Kerry Diamond: And did you crack the code on those biscuits?

April Anderson: We did. This past week we got some very good ones. My grandmother's biscuits was super flaky, and if you touch it they fall apart. Which is wonderful, right? But I want a biscuit that I can make a sandwich with. So I still need to be flaky and buttery, but it needs to be a little sturdy. But not dry, where you could knock somebody out with it, but sturdy that when you cut it it doesn't fall apart. And we ... This weekend, Tamia made them, she's been bragging about it. But the last we did this past weekend has been great.

Kerry Diamond: Nice.

April Anderson: Yes.

Kerry Diamond: All right. Everybody know what you have to do this weekend, right?

April Anderson: Yeah, you have to come get biscuits. Yes.

Kerry Diamond: Clear.

April Anderson: Yeah. She wants to come back on the weekend.

Kerry Diamond: So, Kimberly, how about you? I know you've got a lot on your plate.

Kimberly Chou: I think for me there are two parts to it. First of all, and this is something other folks have said already, is how to uplift and amplify other folks that are already doing the work, and how to listen. And that's one of the things that we talk about at AMP, at Allied Media Projects. First, we begin by listening, when it comes to solving problems, or addressing needs, and wants, and desires, and goals in our different communities, is to see who's already doing the work, amplify what they're doing. You don't have to reinvent the wheel or open another restaurant, if there are people doing good work out there who's work you love, and you can support.

Kimberly Chou: So, that's a big thing I'm about. And then, another thing is ... And I think this is tricky. The question of how much to put yourself out there, especially when there's this idea of ego, when there obviously have been, or historically have been a lot of food businesses, a lot of restaurants, that have been dominated by male ego, is to, what feels good for you? And when you can put yourself out there, if you can be public-facing as a person, as a leader, as a model for the rest of your community, how do you make space when you're taking space? How do you make space for other people and make sure you're lifting other people up as you climb?

Kimberly Chou: That's something I think a lot about, especially as someone that mostly is in behind the scenes, and convenes people. Usually I'm like, "I'm just back here with the headset and the clipboard." But especially now that I'm back to doing more of the writing and the storytelling and the communicating work, which is what I did before I started producing events, and people asked me to speak on panels like this one. I need to make sure that I know what balance is good for me and also is good for my communities that I'm part of, and then good for the folks that I want to be building with.

Kerry Diamond: I love that idea of making space but taking space, because, April, I'll admit this, as soon as you said you're trying to not put yourself out there so much, I was like, "Oh, God, put yourself out there." Because so often what we do at Cherry Bombe is we tell other women's stories, and I can't tell you how much time I spend looking at their websites, reading your bios, looking at your Instagram accounts, and there's a lot of modesty. And I just want to see you all really get as much attention as you can for that.

April Anderson: I say that because for the longest, it was just me doing all the baking here, right? I mean, everything. So, then, when I started getting assistants, customers who were used to me doing all the baking was like, "I want you to make the cake." "Well, it's going to taste the same if Tamia, Mario makes it." And they'll be like, "No, I can tell when they make it. I'll be like, thinking about a chocolate cake for the past two weeks," and he's like, "Yeah, and it was good, but I see him back there making it." And I say, "Yeah, he was making it two weeks ago too." But it was just because people were so used to me doing everything that they wasn't ready for new people to do it. And I just want people to know that, regardless if I'm here or not, it's going to be the same. That's why I've been stepping back, because I didn't want people to be like, "I'm not going to come if April's not baking."

Kerry Diamond: Right.

April Anderson: It's Good Cakes and Bakes. It's not just April.

Kerry Diamond: Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of operators struggle with that same issue, when you become the face of a place, and people expect you to always be in the kitchen, always be on premises, to the point where you're supposed to be there 24 hours a day.

April Anderson: Yeah. They're like, "How are you in New York? Is the bakery not open?" "Yeah. The bakery's open. It's okay. You can still go over there."

Kerry Diamond: So, we're going to make this a little bit of a speed round, but because this is the Future of Food, I asked everyone to think about what they want to be doing in the year 2028.

Lisa Ludwinski: I think about how ... And this is reflective of the conversations we've just had. What my role, specifically, will be as the business grows, and how I've had these opportunities to be very outward-facing, and write a book, and speak at panels, and talk about things, and I see that I have a potential to take myself out of the day-to-day of the business more so that I can interact with people, talk about my business experience, hear about business experiences, and work towards those communal conversations about what the future of food is. One that could even, potentially, be financially sustained by that kind of work, which allows me to potentially reinvest money back in my business in a different way, so that I'm not reliant on my business for my own wellbeing. And I think what that really means for us at Sister Pie is I'd like to, eventually, look toward being a worker-owned business. And I think five years feels real soon, but 10 years feels like a really good time, and I think that's a great way to realize a big part of the mission.

Kerry Diamond: Are there many role models for having a business like that?

Lisa Ludwinski: I first learned about it when I took a trip to San Francisco, right before I started Sister Pie. It was actually one of the reasons that I wanted to start Sister Pie, was because I was so inspired by that. So I think there's the employee-owned bakeries in San Francisco, like Arizmendi, and what's that other one that's really-

Kimberly Chou: Cheeseboard?

Lisa Ludwinski: Cheeseboard, I think. Yeah. Cheeseboard Collective. And so, it's something that I don't know a lot about, but I want to. So it's a goal.

Kerry Diamond: That's great. Molly? 2028.

Molly Mitchell: A lot of big plans.

Kerry Diamond: Sitting on a Pacific beach somewhere?

Molly Mitchell: I just want this damn restaurant open. So, I actually have talked a lot with Eggy Ding, who's my business partner at Rose's and in the new restaurant. We're talking about having more small restaurants that activate a small economy, where you're using local products, and doing a worker-owned style business, but maybe as a truck stop model.

Kerry Diamond: As a truck stop model? Tell us more.

Molly Mitchell: We just want to own more diners, basically.

Kerry Diamond: Very cool. Dorothy?

Dorothy Hernandez: Oh, man. I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. Maybe somebody on this panel. You guys are all badass. When I did Sarap, it evolved to what it is now, and there's so many younger Filipino chefs across the country, just raising awareness of it. Filipino food has such a strong home cooked culture that I think that's why you never saw a lot of it before. When Filipinos moved and immigrated over here, they didn't want to open restaurants, they wanted their kids to go to college and be nurses, and that was never going to happen for me, because I suck at science.

Dorothy Hernandez: But, I really love food, and there's a lot of people my age who are Filipino, second-generation Filipino-Americans who feel the same way. So, in 10 years from now I would just love to grow with this movement and raise more awareness of Filipino food, and just show the diversity of it, because Philippines have 7,000+ islands, and there's just so much to explore. So I just love to showcase that off to everyone else.

Kerry Diamond: April. 2028?

April Anderson: 2028. Good Cakes and Bakes to be here. Maybe a couple more locations. But I don't see April being here 10 years from now. I see us, me and Michelle, still working on her, but I see us living in the Catskills with two chickens. Yes. With two chickens.

Kerry Diamond: Just two?

April Anderson: Just two chickens. Just two chickens. That's enough. That's enough. But I would like to do a lot more. I would like to still bake. Maybe teach baking inside of our house. But very relaxed, very country living, is where I would like to be in 10 years.

Kerry Diamond: Nice. Michelle, are you down with that?

April Anderson: She is into the New York part, but she isn't because she doesn't want to leave her mom in here. Yeah.

Kerry Diamond: Kimberly. 2028.

Kimberly Chou: 2028. I don't know, I don't know if I've thought about that.

Kerry Diamond: Yeah. We sprung this on Kimberly, so ... Yeah.

Kimberly Chou: Though I'm really inspired by these answers. I really like the idea of making yourself obsolete by building a better business and supporting other folks that are working for you and with you. I'm really inspired by that. And being able to move on to other challenges, or still be able to do what you love, or still be able to have your hands in Sister Pie, or in Good Cakes and Bakes, but also making room for yourself to have other things that aren't work.

Kerry Diamond: All right. Thank you.

Kimberly Chou: Thank you.

Kerry Diamond: Thank you to our panel and our audience members for such a wonderful discussion. The Bombesquad is such a supportive group. I'm sure you all took the panelists' words to heart, but especially Kimberly Chou's, when she talked about uplifting the people around you. I know that's what a lot of you do every single day.

Kerry Diamond: Let's talk about Detroit for a minute. We had such a great time in this special city, and I hope you all plan a visit. Our visit was way too short, but I loved hanging out at April's Good Cakes and Bakes, and getting to talk all things buttercream with her and her wife Michelle.

Kerry Diamond: We also visited Sister Pie and ordered everything in the bakery case. Their cranberry pie was mind-blowing and the recipe just happens to be in their great cookbook. I'm a big fan of Sister Pie's Instagram stories, so it was cool to see the team in real life. IRL.

Kerry Diamond: When I return to Detroit, I'm definitely going to visit Rose's Fine Food, and Chef Kate Williams, Lady of the House. Our show was produced by Jess Zeidman and supported by Kerrygold. Thank you to April and the team at Good Cakes and Bakes for hosting us, and thank you to all of our speakers, and to the amazing members of the Bombesquad who joined us for these tapings. Thank you for listening to the Future of Food miniseries. Here's to a delicious tomorrow.