Yin Chang & Moonlynn Tsai Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. Each week, we talk to the coolest culinary personalities around, the folks shaping and shaking up the food scene. Joining me in the studio today are Yin Chang and Moonlynn Tsai, the co-founders of Heart of Dinner, an organization they founded during the pandemic that, today, helps provide meals to elders in New York's Chinatown. They have managed to galvanize folks in New York and beyond to help with donations, deliveries, and even decorating the delivery bags and writing notes to the elders in their native languages.
Yin is also an actor. Maybe you've seen her on Gossip Girl, and she's the founder of the storytelling platform, 88 Cups of Tea. Moonlynn is a restaurateur who has worked in the industry in New York and Los Angeles. These two real-life partners have devoted their lives for the past few years to Heart of Dinner and to their elder community, and they are two incredibly inspiring people. Despite all the hard work, despite all the hardship they have seen, and despite doing all of this in the face of increased violence against the AAPI community, Yin and Moonlynn have kept their optimism and joie de vivre intact. I am so honored to speak with them today, and I think you'll enjoy getting to know them. So stay tuned.
This episode of Radio Cherry Bombe is supported by Kerrygold, the makers of beautiful butter and cheese, made with milk from Irish grass-fed cows. You know that quality ingredients make a big difference when cooking, baking, or putting together a meal. With Kerrygold, you can truly taste the difference. I know countless bakers who swear by Kerrygold butter for their baked goods. I love their butter too, and I'm a huge fan of their cheeses for cheese boards, fun salads, and for including in recipes like quiche and my all time favorite, macaroni and cheese. For those of you who think Kerrygold just makes cheddar cheese, you have a whole world of deliciousness to discover. From Kerrygold's nutty and complex Dubliner cheese, to their Gouda style Blarney cheese, and their Cashel Blue Farmhouse cheese, a special soft blue that I absolutely love. It's really beautiful in a salad this time of year with some greens, sliced peaches and toasted pecans. A little lemon olive oil vinaigrette and you are totally set, trust me on this one. To learn more about Kerrygold and to find a store near you, head to kerrygoldusa.com.
Today's show is also supported by Kobrand Fine Wine and Spirits, the folks behind Bouvet-Ladubay sparkling wine and Cakebread Cellars wine, both of which many of you were able to enjoy at this year's Jubilee Conference. Look for Bouvet-Ladubay and Cakebread Cellars at your favorite wine shop, and enjoy this summer, responsibly, of course, at your next party or picnic. If you're a new listener or a longtime listener, I'd love for you to sign up for the Cherry Bombe newsletter. We feature each week's podcast, a recipe, news from Cherry Bombe headquarters, and other fun stuff, and deliver it to your inbox every Friday. You can sign up at cherrybombe.com. Now let's check in with today's guests.
Moonlynn Tsai, Yin Chang, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Thank you so much for having us.
Yin Chang:
Thank you so much for having us! We're so excited! So cool.
Moonlynn Tsai:
We are so honored.
Kerry Diamond:
I am so excited because we've done so much with you and never had you on Radio Cherry Bombe, though.
Yin Chang:
Popping that cherry.
Kerry Diamond:
So let's jump in. You two had a complete life before Heart of Dinner.
Yin Chang:
Yes. We did, shockingly.
Kerry Diamond:
Even though your whole life now is Heart of Dinner. I would love to know what you were doing previously. Moonlynn, why don't we start with you?
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yeah, so I grew up in the restaurant industry. Throughout my entire life, starting from when I was a child, I was working at my parents' Chinese-American restaurants in San Diego. I thought it was something that I wouldn't pursue when I was older, but as I got into college and learning to cook for myself, and then discovering farmer's markets, moving up to the Bay Area, it became this really big passion. So since then, I've helped to open restaurants in LA, in the Bay Area, and then, most recently, in the Lower East Side.
Kerry Diamond:
Did your parents try to talk you out of the industry?
Moonlynn Tsai:
One of each. My mom was like, "No, you can do anything. You can be an artist. You can do whatever you want to. Just don't get into this industry because it's so tiring and exhausting." My dad on the other hand is like, "I built this business up for 30 years. Who else would take it over?" So it was a tug and pull from both parents growing up.
Kerry Diamond:
And your parents still have the place in San Diego?
Moonlynn Tsai:
They do. They do. Not as involved. My cousin's family, they own some of it. My dad, he owns some of it, but it's still there in San Diego.
Kerry Diamond:
So it's a real family affair.
Moonlynn Tsai:
It's a real family affair.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you know Natasha Pickowicz?
Moonlynn Tsai:
I do. We actually found out we grew up not too far from each other in San Diego. She's from La Jolla, I'm from Lacosta, and then we connected in New York and there's been so many awesome San Diegans in New York that you just wouldn't imagine would be here.
Kerry Diamond:
We also have a lot of great Bombe Squad members out in San Diego, so hello to the San Diego Bombe Squad. You know who you are.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Hello! That's where we discovered you for the first time. We were at Barnes and Noble in Encinitas, and at that time, food publication, especially female-geared food publication, there was none. I remember going with Yin and like, "What is this? Cherry Bombe," reading through it and felt so seen and so excited. I was like, "Man, if ever I could get to know these people at Cherry Bombe, that would be such a dream," and then fast forward to now. We've become family and it's so awesome just how incredibly supportive this industry is.
Kerry Diamond:
Aww, that's amazing. Well, thank you for telling me that story. Okay Yin-
Yin Chang:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
What were you doing before?
Yin Chang:
Anything that pertained to art. I dabbled in art because my grandpa is a huge influence in my life. He's an artist and by trade, he's a painter and also a teacher, professor. My mom also encouraged me with arts as a kid. And then when I got older, I remember falling in love with theater in high school. I just did one theater gig and I fell in love with expressing stories and being able to see and move people, and the play that I did that changed my life forever was called The Laramie Project. It was based off of a true story where a member of the LGBTQIA community was murdered because of who he is.
And at the time we did this play, it was purely ensemble cast. There's no ego, no one was the main star of the show. Everyone told the story together. At the end of the play, I remember, this is a very conservative school too, at the time. There was no talk of being anything other than hetero- and Caucasian-presenting. I remember seeing the parents standing up, giving us a standing ovation with tears in their eyes and they were moved beyond words. You could tell that their life and their viewpoints changed. I didn't do so well in high school. I was a smart kid for sure, but I just never held any interest. I always got in trouble.
This was the one thing that I felt got my life back on track, and made me feel like I had a purpose to be here on this earth, and to tell and express stories, and at the time, that instrument of acting and still is. But no matter what, throughout my entire life, I would use any sort of artistry medium to tell stories. I ended up landing shows and movies that brought my career from New York to LA.
Kerry Diamond:
Where did you grow up?
Yin Chang:
I grew up in New York. I was born and raised in New York City, lived a little bit in Flushing, Queens, and then our family moved us out to Long Island. I would go back and forth into the city for auditions and to work on shows, and then that brought me out to LA. In LA, I ended up booking movies and more TV shows. It was an incredible experience, but it was so difficult just noticing there was rarely any space for people who looked like me, or anyone that was not Caucasian, so I started dabbling on behind the screens too. Writing, creating, directing a short film, producing. Life also brought me to meet Moonlynn out in LA.
Kerry Diamond:
I wanted to ask how you too met because I don't know that story.
Yin Chang:
Moonlynn, do you want to share that?
Moonlynn Tsai:
Medical love story. So at the time, that was back in 2014, I just helped to open a restaurant in Silver Lake, Los Angeles. Pine and Crane, it's a Taiwanese farm-to-table restaurant. It's amazing. First week of soft opening ... Preface, I didn't have a lot of friends in LA. I was very new there. I was working all the time, and then Yin came in with a bunch of her friends, and I just remember at the time, she'll share more on this later from her point of view, but this group of people, they were so nice. They were so warm. I was like, "I haven't met a lot of really warm LA people," at the time and I just remember thinking, "Wow, they're amazing. I hope we can stay in touch." I'm going to pivot this over to you because you're great at sharing.
Kerry Diamond:
Yin, tell us your version of the meet-cute story.
Yin Chang:
Okay. Yeah, so one of my best friends, she lived in Silver Lake at the time, and that's where Moonlynn's Pine and Crane at the time was situated and soft launched. Oh my gosh, I'll never forget. My best friend was the one who introduced me to Taiwanese Oolong Tea, and it's a specific kind called Don Ding Tea. She's looking it up on Yelp and she's like, "You know what? There's this new shop that's just opening. It literally says it's just opening right now. We should check it out. It's five minutes down the street from me, so let's go in and let's check it out!" So we go in and I'm looking around, and it says it's an authentic Taiwanese restaurant, but I see Moonlynn and I'm like, "Cool! This is awesome seeing someone who looks like me, that's amazing."
But I did go up to her. I wanted to make sure it really was Taiwanese because I wasn't sure, because I wasn't used to that kind of presentation of a restaurant that looked like that, that served Taiwanese food the way they did that was farm-to-table. I was used to going out to San Gabriel Valley, for example, for really delicious Asian food. So good. I went up to Moonlynn. I was marching up to her. I'm like, "Hi, are you Taiwanese?"
Moonlynn Tsai:
The real story, I was like, "Yes, yes I am."
Yin Chang:
And I got a bit territorial about it, even though I'm not in the food industry or the food space because I'm half-Taiwanese. My dad is half-Taiwanese and I find it so rare to find that in the spaces that are more gentrified in, I guess you could say central to LA. For me, it was very much wanting to make sure that the representation was right, so I was like, "Are you Taiwanese?" We bonded over that, that she is indeed Taiwanese.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you laugh, Moonlynn?
Moonlynn Tsai:
I did inside. At first I was like, "Yes."
Kerry Diamond:
You're like, "Is this a test?"
Moonlynn Tsai:
"Yes I am," and then she's like, "Okay." And there wasn't a follow up after that, she literally said, "Okay," and then turned and walked away. I was like, "Okay, I guess that's cool," but then getting to know her group more, they were so nice. I think it was a month afterwards. I love hot pot and Pine and Crane was closed on Tuesdays at that time so I was like, "You know what? I want to gather all the really awesome people I've met in LA and throw this private, hot pot dinner." I was like, "How do I get in touch with her?" because I forgot her name, I didn't know her friends.
I was in charge of the social media at that time and got a message from her saying, "That was incredible. Thank you so much for the meal," and I was like, "Wait. In that case, are you and your friends free for this hot pot dinner that I'm throwing?" Not thinking that they would actually come because people would be like, "Why are you inviting me to this private dinner?" But they showed up and then we bonded and realized-
Yin Chang:
Oh, can I add a little footnote in here?
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. Go for it.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yes.
Yin Chang:
I did think, "What? I barely know you. Why do I want to go?" And also, my personality is that I'm social when I have to be social. I do love my private time and quality time with close friends, so normally when people ask, "Do you want to go to something?" I usually don't always go. So when Moonlynn asked, I was like, "Oh, well that's so sweet, but I don't know. Am I bothering her? Is it burdensome?" And it's a little bit of my Taiwanese upbringing from my dad's side, who's very like, "Don't bother people. You don't know if they really mean it if they're inviting you over. You might be bothering them more," so in my head, I'm just like, "Well, I don't know."
And then I told my friend, the same friend that told me, "Hey, let's go check out this new Taiwanese spot down the street." I was like, "So, she invited us but I don't know if we should go." My friend's like, "No, we should definitely go because Moonlynn looks so cool and she seems like such a cool person, and we should have her in our friend group!" And I was like, "Whoa, I feel like you're trying to replace us here. What's happening?" because she got so aggressive about it.
Kerry Diamond:
We need to go back a step. Why did you send that DM to the restaurant?
Yin Chang:
You know what? I think it was honestly a comment of just saying thank you so much. It might have been a comment on your Instagram.
Moonlynn Tsai:
I think you wrote, "Thank you so much for sending out the woodier mushrooms."
Yin Chang:
Okay, so I'm going to reference you for that memory because that's a little foggy for me. I think it was just more so Moonlynn really goes over and beyond, and she really understands the meaning of hospitality and intuitive service. She really is a shining example of how to show humanity through food. She always would treat me and my friends so well and truly kindly, and it wasn't just me.
There was nothing special about me. It wasn't like she was like having any sparks or anything like that. Sorry for anybody hoping for that. That comes later. She was more so, "This is how I treat people. This is how I show love and care for anyone that comes in, and anyone that comes in more than a few times, I want to show them a thank you," so she would send food out to us. A lot of times it's complimentary, it's on her. She would take care of it. I was so touched, so I would share on Instagram, "Thank you so much for that. That was a beautiful meal." I guess it was more so thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
I have goosebumps because we wouldn't even be sitting here now if you hadn't-
Yin Chang:
No, if it hadn't been for my best friend who brought me to that shop, I don't think-
Kerry Diamond:
But she wouldn't have found you without your DM.
Yin Chang:
That's true. That is true.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Ahh, social media.
Kerry Diamond:
Social media, sometimes it's good.
Yin Chang:
It really is. Instagram.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Instagram.
Moonlynn Tsai:
And then during that dinner we found out we were going to the same Burning Man that same year at the hot pot dinner. I was so excited. I was like, "Yeah! More Burning Man friends!" Found out it was their first time going. It was my group's third time going, and I was like, "Hey, let us know. I'm happy to save you a plot of land, show you the ropes." This one-
Yin Chang:
I didn't respond to her, in general, when she followed up with a text message saying, "Hey, I really meant it when I mentioned at the hot pot dinner, I could help."
Kerry Diamond:
You're like, "It's not fake hospitality like your dad's telling you."
Yin Chang:
Yeah. Yes, yes. And then I was traveling. Also, I think maybe it was a lot because I think I'm very stubborn in a way where I'm like, "No, we can do it ourselves, me and my friends." I didn't answer her for about two months because I was in Asia. I was also traveling around Europe. The same best friend who dragged me into a restaurant was like, "Have you answered Moonlynn yet about the offer to help at Burning Man?" I'm like, "No, why are we going to bother her when she's going with her friends? And hello, Burning Man is about self-sustainability. Why are we going to rely on people? We should be able to do it ourselves or we shouldn't go," so I'm really stubborn in that way.
And so she's like, "Yin, it doesn't hurt to ask for a little bit of help. It's fine. Just lean on community." And I'm like, "Okay, fine," so I finally responded to her and Moonlynn was so nice. After two months of not hearing back from me, she's like, "Sure!" Immediately sent me a whole Excel sheet of all of the items to buy, every single piece and about how much each product was, how much I'd be spending. It was just so generous. It was very, very kind.
Kerry Diamond:
I am really learning how each of your brains work here in this conversation.
Yin Chang:
Oh yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Just to leap forward for a second. I'm amazed, Yin, that you and Moonlynn now have this sort of entire universe that is based on the kindness of strangers.
Yin Chang:
Yes it does. It really broke me in, you have no idea. Heart of Dinner has been a hard learning lesson to accept help and to lean on each other. It's been very humbling.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah.
Yin Chang:
So it really has been moving, and then I know we'll touch more on that later.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you two fall in love at Burning Man?
Moonlynn Tsai:
You know what? I fell for her at Burning Man and I didn't know I was into women at the time. I went to Burning Man trying to "find myself."
Kerry Diamond:
Did you two do full-on Burning Man? I've seen the photos.
Moonlynn Tsai:
It was pretty full on, so that-
Kerry Diamond:
The clothes, the whole thing.
Moonlynn Tsai:
The clothes, the set up. Well that year, we had a shower. My group, they made a shower, they made a sink. They really went all out that year. Yin's group, it was their first time so it was a little more compact.
Yin Chang:
Oh yeah, I definitely kept it super simple. I didn't know anything about building showers.
Moonlynn Tsai:
I didn't either. I left it to the team. I was like I'll just enjoy it.
Yin Chang:
Yeah. I was like, ""Dude, I'm proud of not showering for seven days. It's fine." Okay, so I just brought-
Moonlynn Tsai:
The alkaline dust is washing away your-
Yin Chang:
But also baby wipes. I was wiping everywhere. For me, getting to Burning Man, it was very interesting. I was in a relationship before that for several years with a guy. We'd been broken up for quite some time. That same best friend, she keeps coming back up, the same best friend-
Moonlynn Tsai:
Your guardian angel.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you still friends?
Yin Chang:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
What's this magical creature's name?
Yin Chang:
Her name is Aimee Teegarden. I met her as an actor when we were acting in a Disney movie together.
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, can you say which one?
Yin Chang:
It's called Prom. It was theatrically released nationwide, which made my family really proud to support and watch in New York. And they flew out for the Los Angeles premiere at the El Capitan Theater.
Kerry Diamond:
Well Aimee Teegarden, thank you for everything you've given the food world.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Thank you, Aimee.
Yin Chang:
Actually yes, thank you so much, Aimee. I never thanked her fully, so thank you Aimee. And so Aimee really is an angel in my life for a lot of reasons. Again, she wanted to push me to get out of my comfort zone, so she wanted me to go to Burning Man. She wanted me to be open to meeting people in my life as a love interest or just in general, just to get out of what I've been so used to, just focusing on work all the time. I get very work obsessed. It's funny. She was initially the one trying to set me up on this online dating site before Burning Man several months before. And then all of a sudden, she's creating this profile against my will, but to appease her, I was like, "Okay, fine," after a lot of push and pull.
In this section that says interested in male or female, at the time, this is years ago, I wrote, "Well, male," as if it was such an obvious thing. I didn't understand why she asked me that at the time, I had no clue. And then fast forward months later, I was at Burning Man and all of a sudden, it was four days into Burning Man out of a total of seven days that we were there. We were out in the desert, deeper into the Playa late at night, and there's a party scene and all of that stuff. All of a sudden, I look over and I see Moonlynn there with her crew, and I suddenly had these feelings for her. I was like, "What are these feelings? I didn't understand it," and I felt very uncomfortable with myself. Quite honestly, what triggered that was that I saw, to me, it was a random girl that came up to Moonlynn talking to her. And it looked, from afar, like she was batting her lashes at Moonlynn.
I suddenly felt like, "Wait, are these feelings of jealousy here that I don't have even with my ex-boyfriends?" I'm like, "Wait, what?" I didn't recognize those feelings because I'm super chill. When that happened, I freaked out. I ended up leaving the group to go out on my own, even deeper into the desert where there's barely any lights. I was just biking around just trying to figure out my feelings. I couldn't call any of my friends back at home. I figured out my own sexuality and coming out that night. Literally pulled an all-nighter, biking to the temple that was set up there, handmade with wood pieces, laying there and just questioning myself and understanding my process, and just processing all of the emotions in general, and really validating them and not pressing them away or suppressing them like I usually do.
Immediately that morning, when the sun rose, there was this beautiful, massive sculpture called Embrace and you couldn't tell what gender they are. They were just two heads embracing each other. I was watching that, along with thousands of people surrounding it, as it was burning during sunrise and as soon as it finished the last piece of wood that it burned off, I fully accepted myself and I was like, "This is it. The person that I'm very attracted to is Moonlynn. Here we go. Let's go," and it was like, "Bring it on." It was like from then on.
Kerry Diamond:
I have goosebumps. Now I know why you have storyteller in your bio.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Right?
Kerry Diamond:
You are a great storyteller, Yin.
Yin Chang:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, that begs the question. Did Moonlynn feel the same way for you?
Moonlynn Tsai:
Oh gosh.
Kerry Diamond:
Sorry to put you on the spot.
Moonlynn Tsai:
No worries. So at that time, I've been dating women for a while, but I was still very, very closeted. I've never came out, and even in my past relationship that was about seven to eight years, there was no PDA. There was no acknowledgement of that, so I was just like very hidden. And at that time, that relationship, it was on and off. It was the tailwind of it. We actually did go to that same Burning Man together. It was a really gray area and I was not expecting Yin to show up in my life like that at that time. So at that time, I didn't think much of it because she presents very femme. I think at that time I was just like, "Wow, this person is so amazing. She's here. We're having a good time."
We didn't get to know each other that much but towards the end of it, I think after she realized, she started asking a lot of questions. I was like, "Wow, she's really good at getting info out that I don't share with anybody," and I know she was trying really hard to ask me, "So who are you interested in?" And I tried to keep it as neutral as possible, "Oh, the people in the past," "Oh, the person I was dating," and whatnot.
Yin Chang:
I mean, that was really telling for me.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Well, I thought I was being sly. I was just like, "Okay, I'll even open, but not so open," but then it wasn't until after Burning Man. We left, we were texting a lot about going to get food. I asked her if she liked uni because there was this amazing uni restaurant close to Torrance area. I texted her and she said yes, and I was so excited. I gathered her, I invited my brother, our friend at the time, and I didn't know she thought it was a date. So it was-
Yin Chang:
Or just a solo of getting to know each other.
Moonlynn Tsai:
I had no idea and I don't enjoy one-on-ones. I get really anxious, so for me I was like, "Oh, she loves food. Let's go eat together. Get to know each other more as friends," because I thought she was so cool. We started talking more, hanging out more. Yes, and then I fell for her when we went to San Diego, because at the time I was just really stressed out with work and I wanted to decompress. I was like, "Hey, would you be interested in going to San Diego? I want to go camping on the beach. I don't know if it's legal," not thinking she would say yes because who would just go on this random trip?
She said yes, and I was like, "Wow, she's amazing!" So we got to talking more. We did pitch that tent on the beach, but then we got kicked out immediately, and I was like, "Oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. What do we do now?" She was so down to just rough it in the car. We were watching the sun come up on the wrong side, and she was just so much fun. So from then on, I just fell. I didn't know what that meant because I still didn't know if she was into women, but I knew I fell for her then.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, let's jump ahead to Heart of Dinner because we have so much to talk about with this, but I absolutely love hearing how you two met and fell in love. It's very sweet and very inspiring, so thank you for sharing that. Heart of Dinner. So you two were doing your own thing-
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Before this was even an idea. The pandemic strikes. How was Heart of Dinner born?
Yin Chang:
Oh, so Heart of Dinner was born because we were seeing videos of elderly that reminded us so much of our own grandparents, and we like to say, also, our elderly parents. It was devastating to see footage and viral videos of these elderly, again, who could have been my grandma or my older dad, Moonlynn's grandma, pó po or her mom, even. These videos of these elderly collecting cans, for example. Few cents at a time just to try and save a little bit of money for food, for basic necessities, for survival. Then being attacked, violently harassed, mocked, racist rhetoric being said and spoken in these videos alongside of the violence. It was beyond the word heartbreaking. It was gutting. It was really, truly gutting, and we couldn't imagine if our parents were not in a privileged position, right, to be able to take care of their parents, which is our elderly.
That could have easily been our grandparents, and what would we do if that were the case. You could see in these videos, some of the elderly try and express and struggle to ask for help, or just to say something while it's happening, whether it's trying to explain where they're coming from or whatever it is. Seeing them break down and crying, and then thinking, "Okay, why is it there are these issues?" And at the same time, we're experiencing xenophobia and racist rhetoric towards us as well, so it's opening up that double impact of empathy, right? That gateway. You're kind of feeling it, you're living through it, and then being reminded that Moonlynn and I are in privileged positions as well, that we speak English fluently. We have our own resources that we built up. We have, also, many resources thanks to our parents and families too.
Kerry Diamond:
So you had two things going on at the time. You have this double whammy of all this awful violence directed toward the AAPI community, especially around Chinatowns in the country. And then, you've got food insecure elders. When did all this start to come together in your mind that we need to do something very specific to address this community.
Moonlynn Tsai:
It was super fast. Yin and I, I think the beauty of being in a relationship for seven years, we're very much in sync with each other and our thoughts. We both have our strengths, but in the middle, the apex of where our brains meld, it's so fast and we both execute really quickly. So when everything was happening, I just got back from work and we were talking about it, because at the time we were hearing how high schools were shutting down. There was no extra meals for the kids at the time. Came back home, the grocery stores were about to close in about 20 minutes so we were like, "We got to do something."
We literally ran to Trader Joe's, and also the local grocery stores, just to gather some dry goods to create breakfast kits and also dinner kits. And then Yin ... At the time, we had a stash of books from 88 Cups of Tea and she really wanted to make sure that the kids were taken care of at home, or even parents who wanted a little bit of escapism, they had books to read. So we gathered everything, tied them in bags, put them at the outside the restaurant I had at the time for anyone who needed a little bit of assistance to come by and pick it up.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. I didn't realize kids were part of this in the beginning.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yeah.
Yin Chang:
So I do think it's really important, sorry it's Yin here interrupting Moonlynn, per usual. I do think it's important to preface this was before we saw videos of our elderly, the elderly who looked like our grandparents, and what they were going through, so we were not aware at the time at all. All we were seeing was news in the very beginning, and we're talking about as early as February.
Kerry Diamond:
Because our Chinatown here in Manhattan became a bit of a ghost town.
Yin Chang:
Yes.
Moonlynn Tsai:
It was desolate.
Kerry Diamond:
Before March.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yeah, we would walk by all the time and it was just so sad seeing generational restaurants shuttering, and it wasn't a temporary shutter. It was permanent. Just walking through that stretch, and especially with Lunar New Year's coming up and how empty it was, it was heartbreaking.
Yin Chang:
The whole care package for multi-generational families, in general, for the parents, especially, and the children, we were reading, hearing news. The newsletter started around March, where they're keeping up to date almost hour by hour. Seeing news saying that children weren't going to be able to go back to school, and a reality that we only just learned about through the pandemic, before the onset of the pandemic, right at the cusp, was that a lot of the families in our own neighborhoods couldn't afford the two extra meals every single day for their children because they relied on the public school system to be able to provide them breakfast and lunch.
That was something we never had to think about because we grew up privileged. Let's be quite frank here and very transparent. It was something that really hurt us because food is at the core of us and how we were brought together and also, throughout our entire relationship, everything is about food and that is the way you express love in general for us. And to think of children and families struggling like that. And of course, it's a reality that's been around for a while, but it took a while for us to open our eyes. That was happening right in our own neighborhoods. Then, I'm going to switch it back to Moonlynn. I'm going to pass it back to you, where you can pick up from the care packages we left outside.
The care packages were left outside and it was really heartbreaking where people would come by and they wanted to pick up that package, but they were so nervous about taking something for free. They were like, "How can I give back or what can I do?" And it's like, "No, if you need it, take it. You can take how many you want. It doesn't matter. Just take it. Be well," so they were so touched. And then at the same time, Yin was at home watching videos, watching the news. She saw that our elders were being attacked. She started calling social service organizations in the local area, asking them how can we help? What can be done?
But I think it's so important to also share for listeners listening into. When watching these videos, like so many people who saw the videos, it broke us. It really broke us and we were crying and it's not something that's rare. So many people are crying, but it was those emotions that were enough to move us to action and realizing we have our own resources. We have skills. Again, we have the privilege of speaking the language here in America and to communicate. So using that, and then immediately just hopping on a call, doing Google research, putting outreach on social media, using that to our advantage, asking people that we don't even know, people who are following us, saying, "Hey, does anyone know of any social services organizations that directly take care of elderly, Asian-American immigrant elderly here in New York city, locally. Please let us know if you have direct experience with these social services organizations. If you swear by them, if you've heard of wonderful things about them. We want to know through referral."
And at the same time, double checking that with Google and all the links coming up when searching for Asian, elderly immigrants and where to reach out. Calling these social services organizations, and also shelters too, for those who are displaced, double checking and asking around like, "Hey," letting them know the news is mentioning there's food shortages right now, and it's really difficult to get access to ingredients, or they're just skyrocketing. It's just too expensive for people, especially who are already living in underserved communities. "Is this what you're experiencing?"` Calling so many back-to-back-to-back. This is about two weeks of calls and outreach and research, and do not forget, this was at a time where people also weren't really picking up because people didn't know what was happening in the pandemic, so a lot of staff were laid off and everything.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm amazed you two had the presence of mind. There was a big sense of panic in New York City at that time.
Yin Chang:
Oh, I'm not going to lie. I was definitely panicking. I was definitely panicking, but I think being able to channel that panic, that fear, the frustration, and that unknowingness of what's happening, of feeling like the world is shutting down and what is going to happen next. I think that is when our empathy and compassion is a lot more easy to tap into because then you start thinking, "But what about those who are not in situations like we are, where we're lucky enough, where we can ask for support and help if we need to," right?
Moonlynn Tsai:
I think that also was a really big learning experience on our relationship. We've gone through so much, but at that time of a fight or flight situation, I think we knew each other's personality, but we didn't realize how quickly we were both kind of gearing towards the same direction of, "We got to do something," and she's amazing with phone calls and being on the computer all day, doing immense research. I'm more so, I think growing up in the restaurant industry, I like doing things with my hands, so I can carry the boxes of bok choy, whatever we're going to order. It was really quick how everything got put together.
Kerry Diamond:
You said fight or flight. A lot of people abandoned this city.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yeah, it's true. We thought about that too. We had this, almost, responsibility of taking care of this community that's been so good to us ever since we've moved here. We're in a position where we're able to help, and then we're also being surrounded of such kind-hearted people who want to help.
Yin Chang:
I don't even think it was a possible chance that we were going to leave. I think we had to stay.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, you mentioned community. You two, you have such a beautiful community and you really did an incredible job mobilizing that community because I feel like so many of the people we're all friends with, you got them involved very quickly to help. Do you want to talk about what came next? How you kind of took things to the next level from leaving care packages outside to doing something a lot more coordinated and intensive.
Moonlynn Tsai:
For sure, so backtracking a little bit before the meal care packages. Yin and I back in, I think it was February, babe?
Yin Chang:
Late February, I think.
Moonlynn Tsai:
We were seeing Chinatown empty, and our goal at the time is we're going to host these food tours and we're going to mobilize and ask and reach out to our friends in the hospitality industry. It can be writers. It can be chefs, cooks, to join us with these tours, bring the public out and bring them to our favorite spots, and then these would be donation-based where the proceeds would go back to the restaurants, just for people to understand Chinatown a bit more. So at the time, Yin and I were cooking about 200 meals a week out of our tiny apartment, and no joke-
Kerry Diamond:
I've seen pictures of your apartment.
Moonlynn Tsai:
It's so small. The oven doesn't work. We can't bake anything or else the fire alarm goes off. 200, we thought initially was going to do put a big dent. Yin doing research calls, she realized, and we both learned, in one building alone, there's about 1,200 elders. And so 200 sounds like a lot, it didn't even scratch the surface.
Yin Chang:
At the same time, we were having friends reaching out through us through Instagram, "Hey, we're not in the city, but how can we contribute? Can we donate? Can we buy rice? What can we do?" And they knew about it because we were posting it on Instagram, for example, and also on Facebook, so people knew what we were doing, treating it like a diary in real form and what was happening.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yeah.
Yin Chang:
So very kind people read it, yeah.
Moonlynn Tsai:
And then our friends, neighbors, like Jacqueline from Partybus Bake Shop, Helen from Saigon Social, Sam from Golden Diner, all reached out and was like, "Hey, what can we do? We want to do something?" So Jacqueline jumped in, baked these brioche milk toast buns to donate. And we were like, "No, no. We don't want you to donate. We want to purchase." We have a little bit of savings. We have some donations coming in and it's so important for us, especially for our restaurant friends who had to shut down their restaurant, how can we support them? At the same time, how can we take care of our elders and also purchase groceries from local distributors who aren't able to distribute seven days a week anymore? So Jacqueline jumped in baking milk loaves. Then Helen reached out and was like, "Hey, can I donate meals?" At the peak of the pandemic, we had 10 restaurant partners, 10 social service organizations that we were servicing.
Kerry Diamond:
And you two had no background in this.
Yin Chang:
No this is a-
Kerry Diamond:
You're laughing. You were just putting this together as you went.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yeah. It was like a startup. It wasn't even fathomable that this was going to be a nonprofit. We thought this was going to be a pop-up relief effort for a couple months, and COVID was supposed to go away by summer.
Kerry Diamond:
Right. We all thought COVID was going to end.
Moonlynn Tsai:
The sun was going to kill the virus and it was going to be gone.
Kerry Diamond:
Exactly. Let's jump forward because Heart of Dinner is still around. It is a much bigger organization right now. How many meals did you serve in January?
Moonlynn Tsai:
It hit over 100,000, so we broke our 100,000 goal back in January. Yep.
Kerry Diamond:
As of January, you served over 100,000 meals, which is remarkable. When you think of you two in your tiny apartment cooking, barely able to cook 200 meals, and you've gotten to the point where you've served over 100,000 meals. It's remarkable.
Moonlynn Tsai:
It's funny. When we talk about community and asking for help in the very beginning of this conversation, and how hard that was, to realize now that Heart of Dinner would not still exist to this day, to this ginormity in regards to comparing to how it started without leaning on our community.
Yin Chang:
Truly, point blank, so much credit to them. These are amazing restaurant partners. These are kind donors. These are monetary donors. These are amazing volunteers who are so happy to drop everything to mobilize together. We really had to truly understand what it means to let go and trust fall, in a way, in that people, the best of humanity, will show up. That is Heart of Dinner at the core.
Kerry Diamond:
How has that been for you, having to make that massive trust fall?
Yin Chang:
It has been a journey. It has been a journey. It was not easy in the beginning. I was so stubborn and I think that's what caused a lot of my burnout and losing sleep. 100 hour work weeks in the beginning months of forming with Moonlynn. Night and day, humbling experience to understand that when you're asking for help, it does not mean you're burdening or being a burden, or that it takes anything away from anybody, but a lot of times being told by volunteers over and over again that it's life-giving when there's an opportunity for them to be able to step up and rise, that when you don't allow that space, they feel powerless and helpless when they do want to help and contribute.
It's been very healing, in that way, to see that so many people want to show up for the good. You're not bothering them. If anything, it makes them feel fulfilled and it gets them excited, and it brings people closer together of all different backgrounds. Doing this in a way where it truly bridges so many cultures together, so many people together and generations together is very, very inspiring.
Kerry Diamond:
Moonlynn, how has this changed you?
Moonlynn Tsai:
It's changed me in ways I didn't even know. With the elders, and, again, being in an LGBTQIA relationship, I've never come up to my grandparents. I just came out to my mom and everybody else when Yin and I started dating, and so not being out to my grandparents. Initially I was really nervous. I did ask Yin, "Hey, if the elders found out that we're together and we're providing these meals, do you think they would still take it?" We got a message one day from an elder. It was a really sweet, long voice note about how she read about us in this Chinese newspaper, how she's so grateful that we're together, knowing that we were together and how it's so beautiful that we are coming together. Because if we're not together, then there would be no Heart of Dinner, so that was so healing on that end.
Seconding Yin about asking for help and feeling very healed from that, and learning that as a community, you can do so much together and really, really experiencing, I think for both of our first time, what a community feels like, especially going through a time like the pandemic. And we're still in it, but the formation of deep friendships, family, it's so hard to explain and it's very familiar..It feels like going through Burning Man again, where everything was barren. Everyone had to build things by themselves, and the only way to rise together is together. It's been very healing.
Kerry Diamond:
Who came up with the name Heart of Dinner. It's the most perfect name.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Heart of Dinner.
Yin Chang:
Heart of Dinner actually started in LA. Very different, completely different concept.
Moonlynn Tsai:
It was a supper club that we were hosting out of our Downtown LA loft at the time.
Kerry Diamond:
So Heart of Dinner existed before, okay.
Moonlynn Tsai:
It did. So the idea of it was when I mentioned it was really hard for me to make friends in LA. When I turned 30, I wanted to go into entrepreneurship and during that downtime, Yin and I were talking and we were like, "Why don't we host strangers in our apartment and just get to know them, learn their stories." And then, it would be donation-based, so the proceeds would go to No Kid Hungry. It wasn't until recently where we were like, "Wow, there were so many overlaps with current Heart of Dinner, previous Heart of Dinner." We were just like, "Is it the art of dinner? What is it about eating that bonds us together?" And we realized through both of our heritages and just being around a dinner table, it's where everyone finds comfort. It's a universal bonding experience., even if you speak the different languages, so Heart of Dinner.
Yin Chang:
There was no time to think of a brand new name, so we were just like, "You know what? At the core, why not Heart of Dinner? That existed before," and really it's the same message about love, food, bringing community together, so this could be a new version of Heart of Dinner.
Kerry Diamond:
Now you two have so many other interests and things that you do. Are you both working full time on Heart of Dinner now?
Yin Chang:
Heart of Dinner has become full-time. We're still balancing our independent careers as much as we can on top of Heart of Dinner.
Moonlynn Tsai:
We've been doing a lot of food consulting, small business. We're both very passionate about small businesses, whether it be in the arts or in food. Yin is acting as well, and then also gearing up for our 88 Cups of Tea's relaunch.
Kerry Diamond:
Ooh. I can't wait.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Can't wait to bring it back.
Kerry Diamond:
Name drop a few things you've been on. People can be like, "I saw her on that."
Yin Chang:
Gossip Girl was one of the first shows that I booked.
Kerry Diamond:
So the reboot of Gossip Girl.
Yin Chang:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Which I did watch.
Yin Chang:
You did!
Kerry Diamond:
I did because I didn't see the original one, so I wanted to see the new one.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Oh my gosh!
Kerry Diamond:
It's racy.
Moonlynn Tsai:
It is very racy.
Yin Chang:
It is! I remember when I was filming the version via CW, and I would not allow my little sisters to watch it. They were so upset. I'm like, "You're not allowed to watch any of those episodes unless it's my scenes," because my scenes were not sexual whatsoever, and so otherwise I'd be like, "Go play your piano and do your homework." So Gossip Girl.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, so you could see her, and the new and old Gossip Girl.
Yin Chang:
Yeah, and also I was in Disney's Prom that we mentioned earlier. Bling Ring was a really special project to me because that was a first time as an Asian-American lead, so that was very meaningful to be able to see that and brought to life. At that time, it was so hard, very few to come by. It was so interesting just hearing, too, from people working on that production, that Lifetime, again, talking about representation, rarely ever had Asian-American leads. To the have that honor to know, "Okay. We're making headway back in the day," where finally there was this Asian-American lead role, and being so excited for that opportunity, what that meant.
Kerry Diamond:
How can our listeners help Heart of Dinner?
Moonlynn Tsai:
Oh, so many ways. We create these volunteer opportunities really purposefully with a lot of intention. So many kind people, like we've mentioned earlier, are always asking how can we help? So there's opportunities like joining us from around the world, writing handwritten notes in our elderly's native languages like Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Tagalog. Now we're looking for notes in Thai. Also, if you're local to New York City, New York, or in the Tri-State Area if you're willing to drive really far, we've had volunteers to do that before driving in from Jersey and Connecticut. If you have a car you can help us out by delivering our care packages directly to our elderly, and these care packages are filled with a freshly-made, hot lunch that's culturally thoughtful, and also fresh groceries that are also culturally thoughtful with ingredients that our elderly actually recognize and feel empowered to cook, and feel very seen when they're like, "Oh my gosh." I love bok choy and different items you don't usually find at a local American supermarket.
Moonlynn Tsai:
If you're free, you can absolutely help us in that way, and I'm sure there's so many-
Yin Chang:
If you're not local, please feel free to write notes. You can send them in. Another way to support is we have some merch on our site and 100% of those goes back to the mission. Oh, bag decorating is really important, as well. So it's art on art on art, where we write handwritten notes, we attach those handwritten notes onto each and every brown bag and have volunteers decorate each brown bag around the handwritten notes. It's beautiful to see everybody's collective efforts.
Kerry Diamond:
Those are works of art.
Yin Chang:
They are!
Moonlynn Tsai:
We want to keep all of them.
Yin Chang:
Oh my gosh. It's so beautiful.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Wow.
Kerry Diamond:
It should be a museum exhibit one day.
Yin Chang:
Yes!
Moonlynn Tsai:
That would be amazing.
Yin Chang:
We've been collecting, and all the ones that we are just like, "Oh gosh, this really represents what it means to be a part of community," or what it means to recognize our elderly and their wants and needs, and their heritage, and their cultural upbringing, we'll collect them and put them on the side. What a dream, if that could happen, right, to have a gallery.
Kerry Diamond:
And of course, people can donate. The easiest thing that you have not mentioned.
Yin Chang:
It's still very difficult for us.
Kerry Diamond:
Cash, people. Cash is still king.
Yin Chang:
Thanks, Kerry.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Thank you! And on that, even just a simple gesture of checking in on your own grandparents. Calling them, or if you see an elderly on the street, just waving, smile, that goes a really long way. It really does.
Yin Chang:
It really does. We always wonder how can you help at a larger scale outside of Heart of Dinner? We've seen so many of the elderly living in more difficult, challenging situations and circumstances. They're still out and collecting cans, and often we will approach them sometimes and try and feel it out. We just never want to offend, never, ever want to come off like a savior. We just want to be very respectful, so we'll ask them to the best of our ability in our limited Chinese-
Moonlynn Tsai:
Very broken Chinese.
Yin Chang:
Yes, and we'll ask them, "Would you like any fresh groceries and meals?" Many of them, many times, are saying, "No, I don't want it," because it's a lot of pride and also stigmatized in their generation to ask for help. It's just learning to really listen carefully to what it is they need and brainstorming of ways like, "Okay, what if we all collected cans?" because we saw the super of our building we live in. He's so kind. He doesn't speak the language. He was able to communicate with this elderly man who was collecting cans and figure out a way that it made the elderly man so happy if our super of our building would collect the cans and the bottles from our residents when they toss it out. He collects it on the side, puts it very neatly, it's very clean, puts it in a bag, and then so the elderly man feels so proud. It's interesting just to understand what makes people feel seen and still have dignity. Dignity sometimes is more important to them than anything else.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah.
Yin Chang:
So how do you do that, right, and also still provide assistance?
Kerry Diamond:
You always have some great collaborations going on.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
I know our friends at Tillett did an apron with Melissa King.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yes!
Yin Chang:
Yes!
Kerry Diamond:
Who we love from Top Chef, who's also been on the show. That's a gorgeous apron.
Yin Chang:
We were also very blown away because this whole community, including Tillett, they know how busy we are and how slammed we are with constant meetings, multiple events every day. They'll do all of the work to self-fundraise, to self-setup these events and everything to help enable Heart of Dinner to continue. They told us after the fact, they were like, "Hey, by the way, there's going to be collaboration coming out," and it was a surprise and we were like, "What! That's amazing," so it just speaks so much.
Moonlynn Tsai:
It's been really awesome, and then when we were at Malai, we ran into you when you came to support. Thank you so much. It's really the food community, the art community. It's really everyone just coming together for this.
Kerry Diamond:
And you have a fun food collab, right now, that I saw on Instagram.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Oh yes! Mimi Cheng's.
Yin Chang:
Yes. We swung by there earlier, right before the podcast-
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yes.
Yin Chang:
To get some Taiwanese, pan-fried pork buns.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yeah.
Yin Chang:
For the night markets inspired by that. It's just beautiful how Heart of Dinner has so many people from all different backgrounds like you mentioned, Moonlynn. And also adding fashion to that, literature, books worlds, all of it, entertainment, it's all overlapping. It's really, really beautiful to see that it's brought so many people together and so many kind people out there, no matter what background, truly. It's really incredible.
Kerry Diamond:
How are you two taking care of yourselves, mentally and physically? I've been asking everybody that because I think it's important that we bring that up these days.
Yin Chang:
It is very important.
Kerry Diamond:
Moonlynn, you can go first.
Moonlynn Tsai:
It's been a challenge and we're still learning how to navigate this. Especially for May with AAPI Month, we knew we were going to be extremely slammed, but we were like, "You know what? We can't keep burning out, and we have to do something for ourselves."
Kerry Diamond:
And you poor things had a bad bout of COVID. I know that.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yes, it was rough. It was not like the mild allergies that a lot of people were saying. We were both done and we were-
Kerry Diamond:
And of course you got it at the same time.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yes, and this one was like, "You know what? Maybe if I get it now, we can just get it done together." It was a bad wish because it would been better if we staggered, but feeling so taken care of from our community. People would just come by. Nancy dropped off food and we were just talking through the peephole.
Yin Chang:
And she also helped us run errands as well.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Yes, it was so amazing just seeing the care, but we are a little more mindful now about working out, making hard designated time that this is going to be designated, or else we're not going to be able to sustain for the long run. Will it continue? I hope so.
Yin Chang:
We're slowly trying to make our way to actually take a vacation. We don't know when yet and hope we get there soon, but we're still learning. Aside from the workout, we're still learning to just make sure to try and put work away at 11:00 PM-
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah.
Yin Chang:
Or midnight. Just trying to have more hard boundaries for our mental sanity and also our relationship, as well. It's definitely, I feel like, a lot more emotional work if you're doing something together. This kind of work, especially with a significant other, you have to be really conscious about each other's time, the time that you should dedicate towards each other romantically, as well.
Moonlynn Tsai:
And not just talk about work all the time.
Yin Chang:
Yeah.
Moonlynn Tsai:
We could literally talk about Heart of Dinner all day, all night, and the events have been amazing. We're so touched by how many people are so generously donating their time, their skill sets. I think a lot of what people don't realize is these are very exhausting as well. Running from event to event, as much as like, "Okay, can we go to every single one of them?" At the beginning, we were trying to literally go to every single one and really quickly realized, "You know what? We can't, and it's okay." It's okay to just take some time for yourself, and no one is going to be so upset at you that you can't make it, so we're still learning.
Kerry Diamond:
What's next for Heart of Dinner? Anything we should know about that's happening this summer?
Yin Chang:
So Heart of Dinner, it's very organic. It's planned, maybe, a month at a time. We're like, "Oh, June seems a little more open," but all of a sudden, just the past two days, it filled and we're like, "Okay." Long run, we are slowly, slowly planting very small seeds of bringing Heart of Dinner to the West Coast, especially to NorCal. So Oakland, San Francisco, where Yin saw the video, and then to LA to pay homage to where we first started, but that's not going to come into fruition for about another year or so. We just want to make sure we're there, going to sustain for a long term, because it's also really important for us that any elder we bring on, and we have elders that we brought on in 2020, that they still get their care packages every week. We want to make sure we continue that same mission, the same ethos, when we go out to the West Coast.
Moonlynn Tsai:
You know what? One thing that I've been learning, for anyone else who may be going through the pressures of growth, maybe pressures of expansion at a rapid pace is take it slow, take it slow. There's nothing wrong in standing your ground. We've been feeling pressure, especially during AAPI Month of both Mays, May of last year, 2021, May of this year, 2022, where there's this constant pressure of, "Can you bring it here? Can you bring it to Toronto? Can you bring it to Texas?" Every single place.
But if we were to grow at that rapid scale, I cannot imagine being able to sustain the kind of integrity and quality that we do right now, so it's really about doing it in a way where you scale and you grow deeper, rather than wider and faster, and just go slowly. If that means taking on few more places here and there, along the way, it's okay as long as the details are all still there, and our elderly still feel like they're our own adopted grandparents in a way, surrogate grandparents. So we just want to make sure we never let go of that magic.
Kerry Diamond:
I just want to thank you two for what you do. It's remarkable what you two have done in such a short time.
Yin Chang:
Thank you so much, Kerry.
Moonlynn Tsai:
Thank you so much, Kerry, for all of your love and support always. You've been there since the very beginning.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you so much to Yin and Moonlynn for joining us. If you'd like to get involved with Heart of Dinner as a volunteer, or maybe you'd like to donate, visit heartofdinner.org. Thank you to Kerrygold and Kobrand Fine Wine and Spirits for supporting today's show. Don't forget to sign up for our newsletter at cherrybombe.com. If you enjoyed today's show, be sure to dip into our archives for other interviews with the most interesting folks in the world of food and drink. Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of Cherry Bomb Magazine. Our theme song is by the band Tra-La-La. Thank you Joseph Hazan, studio engineer for Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center, our home away from home. And thank you to our assistant producer, Jenna Sadhu. And thanks to you for listening. You're the bombe.