Andrea Pons Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe. I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. I'm the editor and founder of Cherry Bombe Magazine. Each week, I talk to the coolest culinary personalities around. Today's guest is Andrea Pons, the author of Mamacita: Recipes Celebrating Life as a Mexican Immigrant in America. The subtitle tells you what Andrea's cookbook is all about, but the story of how Mamacita came to be is much richer and deeper than you might imagine.
When Andrea and her family were at risk of being deported, she decided to raise funds through a self-published cookbook. Andrea never imagined what would come next. Stay tuned for our chat.
Today's sponsors are Käserei Champignon, maker of Grand Noir Blue Cheese, and Hedley and Bennett, the makers of your favorite chef essentials from aprons to knives. We'll hear more about Hedley and Bennett later in the show. But in the meantime, let's talk cheese. Käserei Champignon is a 100-year-old cheese producer based in the heart of Bavaria, and they're the maker of grand noir blue cheese. This exceptional blue cheese marries a silky smooth texture with bold notes of blue and irresistible complexity. A 2022 best in class winner at the renowned world championship cheese contest, Grand Noir starts with fresh alpine milk from family farms throughout Bavaria.
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If you are looking for the new issue of Cherry Bombe's Print magazine with Erin French of The Lost Kitchen on the cover, there are two fun holiday pop-ups I want to tell you about. The first one is taking place at The Lost Kitchen itself all the way up in Freedom, Maine. Each Friday and Saturday through December 23rd, Erin and The Lost Kitchen team will be hosting a holiday market. You can find kitchen and houseware items made in Maine, Erin's cookbook and memoir, and the new Cherry Bombe. Then here in Manhattan, I'll be at the Diaspora Spice Store pop-up on Friday, December 16th, and Soho from 5:30 to 8:30 PM.
Pick up the new issue or get a copy of our entrepreneur issue with Diaspora founder, Sana Javeri Kadri, on the cover. You can also pick up your favorite Diaspora spices. Buy some for yourself, or put together a creative gift set for your favorite spice girl. Visit cherrybombe.com for more details. Now, here's today's guest.
Andrea Pons, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Andrea Pons:
Thank you. I'm still like, "Wait, this is actually happening." Are you in front of me? This is crazy to me.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, well, the pleasure is all mine. You have a beautiful story and a beautiful project to talk about.
Andrea Pons:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Apologizing to everybody for my laryngitis, but we are recording this the day after our Cooks & Books Festival, a beautiful weekend long celebration of all our favorite authors and new friends like you.
Andrea Pons:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
It was such a beautiful weekend.
Andrea Pons:
It was amazing to me. I walked out of that just feeling so expanded by everyone's stories and so inspired. I was like, "How many more cookbooks can I put in my luggage?"
Kerry Diamond:
Yes, we all have a cookbook problem, but I do know you left with a lot of new friends and fans. Thank you for sharing your story. Fany Gerson interviewed you. It was wonderful.
Andrea Pons:
She's the best.
Kerry Diamond:
You're going to tell all the listeners right now at Cherry Bombe your story today. I don't know a lot about you aside from the book and the story around the book, so I thought we would start there. Tell us where you live and what you do.
Andrea Pons:
Well, I live in Seattle. For folks that are familiar with the area, I live in Pioneer Square, so it reminds me a little bit of some of the little neighborhoods in Brooklyn that I walked around this morning, just lots of brick buildings and old architecture. I love it there. Originally from León, Guanajuato, which is also 180 opposite of what Seattle is like. I'm from a very dry, deserted area, but I've been in Seattle for 17 years now, so I'm used to the cold and the rain, and actually really embrace it. I'm excited to get cozy back home.
Kerry Diamond:
What do you do for a living?
Andrea Pons:
I work full-time right now as a production manager, and I love that. I've always been in media. I started out doing editorial styling on models, and then transitioned to prop, and eventually found my way into food styling, which is my happy place, but really love the logistical side of any production.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us what that means. You do everything soup to nuts. Walk us through what that means.
Andrea Pons:
As a production manager, I really get to just hold hands with everyone in the production. For me, it's really fun, because I get to be a part of any production from beginning concept to end launch product, but I really focus on making sure things are on track. I manage budgets, and I manage pre-production logistics. I work really closely with my producers to make sure that everything is working along. If there's any bottlenecks, I'm usually the one that's there trying to open things up, and figure out what the issue is, and get us moving.
Kerry Diamond:
I love people like you, getting things done on time, on budget. Who are some of your clients?
Andrea Pons:
I'm the last person. Well, right now I work part time for Shopify. Within my pod, my client, you could say, is the product teams in Shopify. But outside of that, I still do a lot of freelance food styling and just styling in general. Living in Seattle, Starbucks is right there, so I've gotten to work with them. I have a few friends in the food industry, so my friend Melissa [Miranda] from Musang, I helped her build out the photos for her restaurant before it opened up, and that was really exciting. TomboyX, this is another Seattle company. They focus on retail like apparel. I do probably once a month style for them. It's really fun. It just keeps it very entertaining.
Kerry Diamond:
Very cool. So, you get to exercise both sides of your brain, the creative and the organized side.
Andrea Pons:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about Mamacita, this beautiful project that you've put out into the world.
Andrea Pons:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
When did you first decide you wanted to do a cookbook, and why?
Andrea Pons:
The idea came to me, I would say, it was winter of 2018. It was a time of my life where a lot changed that year. I got divorced. My best friend was going through breast cancer. It was just, life was changing. I went from being married to living in an apartment by myself for the very first time in my life, because even before that, it was with my parents, and then I had roommates through college. So, this was really the very first time where I was just alone by myself. The idea of the cookbook came to me because at the time, I kept asking my mom so often for her recipes.
I think she was like, "Enough," and she gifted me my grandma's recipe notebook. I was looking at this notebook. The only reason I didn't bring it with me is, because it's so fragile. I was afraid something would happen to it, because…
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my gosh, put that in a safety box somewhere.
Andrea Pons:
Yes. I have it literally in a fireproof, waterproof little container. I scanned all of it. I got this notebook, and I started reading through it, and wanting to recreate my grandma's recipes. I noticed that there were big missing gaps, because she wrote this for herself.
Kerry Diamond:
What kind of gaps? Measurements?
Andrea Pons:
Measurements. No measurements. Any good Mexican grandmother, there was no such thing.
Kerry Diamond:
Of course.
Andrea Pons:
Not even a gram, not even a mention of that. Missing ingredients, you could tell that she was writing it down just notes as she was cooking to remind herself, "Oh, I got to add this step next time I make this." It wasn't cohesive at all. It wasn't easy to follow at all. My mom thought she was going to get rid of me by giving me this book, but instead I kept calling her just to try to put the pieces together. The idea of this cookbook came because I was just trying to immortalize my grandma's recipes. I thought, "Oh, this would be a beautiful gift for my younger sister and my cousins, and if I could just keep grandma's recipes alive."
She's still with us, and I'm so grateful for that, but her Alzheimer's has progressively gotten so bad that I can't just call her and ask her, "Hey, how did you used to make this?" That’s where it all really started.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us your grandmother's name.
Andrea Pons:
Teresa. She goes by Titita, so we still call her Titita, Titita Tere. I was working on the recipes for about two years, because it got to a point where I had to spend a lot of time with my mom. I brought measurement tools for her. I'm like, "Here's measurement spoons, and here's cups." She wanted nothing to do with it. She's like, "No, just watch me." I'm like, "I literally can't, because you're sneaky, and you keep sneaking in spices, and I miss them." I literally would do voice memos, and I would talk, walk myself through what she was doing.
Then I forced her to do one tablespoon at a time until we got the flavor we needed. That's why it took so long really to get the recipes down, but I would say Mamacita didn't go from a passion project to my purpose until 2020 when I first received my letter of essentially deportation from the government. That was really, really scary.
Kerry Diamond:
Did that come completely out of the blue?
Andrea Pons:
It really did, just because I was expecting a letter, but that's not the news I was expecting. Two years prior, the same year that I started writing down my grandma's recipes, at the time, I had a green card that was expiring, so I applied for my tenure green card. I was just waiting for two years. It was waiting, waiting, literally radio silence. Then finally, June of 2020, I get a letter in the mail, and I think, "Oh finally, this must be my new green card that I've been waiting for, or at least some sort of communication that they've received my application."
But instead, it was a letter saying that the application I had submitted two years prior was no longer valid, because the immigration laws had essentially changed within those two years, so what I applied for, it was no longer applicable. If you think you're going to get a refund or anything like that for your original applications, you don't. That's just money down the drain.
Kerry Diamond:
How much money was that?
Andrea Pons:
At the time, I paid $2,000, because you also have to go get physical tests done, which a lot of people don't know about. When you're applying for immigration, you have to go through a series of obstacles. One of them is seeing a doctor that does a physical test, because essentially, the government does not want to take care of you if you have any illness. Likewise, when I received this letter of deportation, I had no other outlet than hiring an attorney, which is a privilege because unlike a lot of migrant families, I don't have dependents. I don't have kids of my own that I have to consider feeding instead of applying for immigration.
I spent all of my savings. It costs me around $10,000, so I had to beg and borrow to make ends meet to hire my attorney. Even hiring my attorney, I had to go to my parents' friend, Vicente, who was one of our very first friends when we moved to the U.S., and asked him to be my sponsor. Because when you're applying for any type of status, especially green card, if you don't make a certain amount of money, the government does not want to have you on welfare. So, my sponsor, Vicente, had to sign this contract essentially saying that he was willing to risk being sued by the government if I ever went bankrupt, and he couldn't financially support me, which is a big, big ask.
I'm eternally grateful for him. Unfortunately, we lost Vicente three years ago, so very sad to lose that family friend, but he changed my life forever. I get goosebumps thinking about him, because he really changed our family's life forever. I love him very much.
Kerry Diamond:
Were your parents or your sister going through something similar?
Andrea Pons:
My entire family, we all were without status for a very long time. My sister and I were very lucky, because we essentially qualified for DACA [Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals] when I was in high school, and that was my path towards citizenship, but my parents didn't have that path. That's the problem with immigration is you come in, and the path is... I think the stress is the same for all migrants, but the path towards safety and status is so confusing, and it's so dependent on where you're from and honestly your financial status. It is a privilege to even become a citizen after all the struggle, because it costs so much money.
Kerry Diamond:
It must have been so terrifying to be…
Andrea Pons:
It was very scary.
Kerry Diamond:
... to be living in that limbo for so long.
Andrea Pons:
Honestly, it caused a lot of issues with my identity, I think, because I can acknowledge now, I didn't at first because I didn't understand, the idea of what a Mexican person looked like for people living in the U.S. before I moved here, because growing up, everyone looks like me. I even have cousins that are very blonde with blue eyes. So when I came to the U.S., and people started questioning where I was from, and I would say Mexico, I would always get, "Prove it," because they wouldn't believe me, and I was confused by that.
But then at the very same time, my parents acknowledging that we look white, and that we are white, wanted my sister and I to essentially tell people if they ever question our ethnicity that we were Mexican-Italian because my great-grandmother is Italian, but I didn't grow up with Italian culture. I didn't grow up making delicious homemade pasta or anything like that. So as a 10-year-old, I felt like, "I'm not American. I can't say I'm American," and I didn't grow up with Italian customs, so I don't identify with Italian, which means that I'm just Mexican, but I'm being told that being just Mexican is not good enough.
So, I lived, I would say, 14 years believing that being Mexican was very shameful, and that being specifically a Mexican migrant was very, very shameful. All the conversations that I was hearing around me, especially coming from politics about being a Mexican migrant, was that it was the worst thing to be in America. It's like, "We're building this wall," which I didn't even know there was a wall between the two countries until I moved here. That was a conversation that was happening often around me, especially because we moved in a primarily white neighborhood.
People would hear my accent. Even in middle school, I would get asked, "Where's your green card? Can you bring it to school? Show me." That was very, very scary, so we feared…
Kerry Diamond:
I'm so sorry you went through that. I mean, what an awful thing to have to process and deal with as a child.
Andrea Pons:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Then the previous presidential administration, I don't even want to say his name.
Andrea Pons:
Same.
Kerry Diamond:
Just to have that amplified so much, and what an awful four years.
Andrea Pons:
It's a very long time. That's where... Mamacita is so special to me, not just because it is my grandma's recipes, but when I was finally for the very first time cooking her recipes on my own, not having my mom cook them for me, but me myself going through the steps, and seeking out the ingredients, and then doing research on ingredients because a lot of times, I couldn't find the right pepper in Seattle. Then I'm having to do research on flavor profiles. What's the best substitute? That would just take me down a rabbit hole of learning about the history of Mexican dishes.
It was almost like following a bread trail back to my identity. It was like every single dish that I made of my grandmother's was one step closer to removing this mask that I had worn for 14 years trying to convince people that I was worthy of love, because I presented in a certain way, and I was hiding all my Mexicanness behind closed doors. It was the first time where I was like, "Screw this. I don't want to hide anymore. This is who I am. I love where I'm from. I love my culture."
Something that my mom taught my sister and I is we always embrace our culture, so Día de los Muertos would happen every single year no matter what, and Día de la Independencia, which a lot of people think that Independence Day is Cinco de Mayo, which is not. It's actually September 16th. We would have a little party in our home. In Mexico, you have El Grito. My parents would literally go out in the balcony, and have El Grito in our backyard, which was cute. It really led me back to rediscovering my heritage and just feeling really proud of it.
So, after almost being deported, the most miraculous thing happened was that same year... I submitted all my paperwork for trying to save my life here. I honestly was so afraid of manifesting being deported, because I had been so afraid of it for 14 years. I wasn't just afraid that I would be deported. I was more afraid that my entire family would be deported, because in my head, I'm like, "Well, if they deport me, they can trace down my last name or something, figure out that we're all here." I feel like I'm a very resourceful person, but with my parents and my sister, I'm like, "I am risking their lives," and I couldn't fathom that.
Kerry Diamond:
Were you afraid to be public in a sense? Were you afraid to post on social media?
Andrea Pons:
I was more afraid of... I mean, I really believe that our thoughts are powerful.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, they are.
Andrea Pons:
I believe in manifestation, and so I thought that if I were to speak about possibly being deported, that it would become true. My work knew because I'm like, "I need to let them know that I'm at risk." My partner, Brian [Oh], who you've met, he knew because we were living together, and he found me crying in the bathroom. He's like, "What's going on?" I'm like, "I might be deported, I don't know." Then I was so afraid to call my mom, because I knew she would take it very heavily. I actually called my dad instead. He didn't even want to tell my mom. He's like, "Don't tell her yet," which eventually, I was like, "We got to tell her."
My dad and I are very honest. We have this really beautiful friendship between us. I adore him, but he's the type... I mean, he's a Mexican dad, so he's going to tell us straight. He was like, "You should start mentalizing that you will be deported." He said, "You will be deported." He has so little hope that there was going to be a fix to this. That made me feel like I had very little hope, because I'm like, "Well, if my dad has no hope, then I don't." A few months later, now fast forward to November of 2020, I get another letter from the government, and I was like...
Oh my gosh, I didn't even want to open it, but this time, it was good news. It was a letter inviting me to take my citizenship test. I was over the moon. I could not believe it. I studied for two weeks straight, went to the USCIS [United States Citizenship and Immigration Services] offices with Diego, who was my attorney, who's 86 years old. Because of pandemic times, he wasn't allowed to be in the same room as me, so he had to stand in the hallway. I was Like, "Oh, can we give him a chair?" They're like, "No chairs in the hallway," so he stood the entire two hours, which I just love him for doing that.
My dad waited in the parking lot the entire time, because you couldn't... Back in the day, you could bring your whole family to these tests, and they would have a little ceremony afterwards where you all got to walk up on stage. It was like, "You're a citizen now." But because of the pandemic, there was none of that. You could feel... The environment every time I went into the office was like... The energy's just odd, because you're trying to do things right, but you feel like you're already in the wrong. I think everyone around you feels the same. I had this thick...
I felt like I was back in college. I had this four-ring binder with every single piece of my life here in the U.S. to prove that I've been to high school here, and I've worked here. I have a life here. I passed the test. It felt really surreal because you're spending two hours... It's 16 years of my life. Then in two hours, I suddenly have this piece of paper which is printed on the spot. It's warm. It says, "You're a citizen." It's like my life is defined by this piece of paper, and the rest of my life will be defined by this piece of paper.
There was me before this piece of paper, and there's me now. They give you a little dollar store American flag, and I still have it. I'm like, "The most precious American flag I own." I ran to the car pretty much sprinted, told my dad. We both cried. I introduced him to Diego, my attorney, on the spot. I'm like, "This is Diego. We're going to start the process for you and mom now," because even though it was a huge milestone to get my own citizenship, the race wasn't over for me. It was like, "I'm first, and now it's time for my parents."
I felt like I was raising against the clock to get my parents' status, because by this point, Titita has had Alzheimer's for 12 years, and it's getting progressively worse. She's my mom's only parent. My mom lost her dad when she was 10 years old, which was the same age that I was when I migrated to the U.S. I look back, and I'm like," I was so little but so aware of so many things." I know my mom was the same. So in my heart, I couldn't fathom my mom never seeing Titita again, because she had to choose between being with her daughters in the States, or risking never being able to live in the same place as us.
I mean, it's hard because even our family in Mexico would be like, "Why don't... Life in the U.S. seems difficult. You're struggling financially. Why don't you just come back?" My parents were like, "No, that's not why we sacrificed everything. We're not just going to move back," especially when they saw my sister and I thriving, and I have so much to be thankful for. I think that's why Mamacita was so important, because it literally came to me in an instant in the parking lot at the USCIS office, because I was like, "Dad, here's Diego. Let's start conversating. Can we hire him?"
Again, my dad is one of those people that's like, "He will just tell you the truth very soberly, and there's no emotion behind it. It's just facts. He was like, "We don't have $20,000, so your mom and I cannot go through this process." I just refused that answer. I was like, "Well, you know what? I'm going to publish a cookbook. I have all the recipes, and I'm going to publish it. I'm going to sell it. That's how we're going to raise money." I didn't think I'm going to raise $20,000, but I was like, "If I can just raise five, and somehow work something out with Diego where I can pay him monthly, but she was so willing to do that, it was amazing."
I'm like, "That's all I got to do." Instantly, I was also like, "The title's going to be Mamacita," because I had just hung up with my mom on FaceTime, and my dad calls her Mamacita. I was like, "That's the title. It's i, and it's going to be dedicated to both of you guys. It's going to be dedicated to Titita, because it's her recipes." I just felt... I don't really like the word empowered, because I think within the last three years, it's been thrown around a lot, and lost its luster, but I felt the fear that I had carried for 16 years melt away.
I could now be vulnerable about our experience, because before I felt like if I talked about being a migrant without status, that I'm putting my family at risk. But now, it's like, "I can talk about our story now, and create this platform." I thought, "What better way to build empathy than to introduce people to delicious food?" Because to me, that's the window to other people's culture. A lot of times, people are so hesitant to get to know things that are different for them or they're uncomfortable about until they taste food from that culture.
Then it's almost like everything changes. I just feel like food builds so much empathy, because if you can get to someone's heart through food, I think they're a lot more willing to understand your point of view or how things came to be.
Kerry Diamond:
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Kerry Diamond:
When you had that lightning bolt, that Mamacita lightning bolt, did you think you would self publish it, or did you think, "I'm going to go find a publisher for this project?"
Andrea Pons:
I right away knew I needed to self-publish it, because I have never written anything in my life that wasn't for school or my journal. But again, I was racing against the clock. I just wanted to get my mom to Titita as soon as possible. I was like, "There is no way I'm going to find a publisher in time." Also, it was one of those things where I was thinking like, "How can I do this the most efficient way, and how can I do this quickly?" That's really where I have to be so thankful for my community and my friends.
I love them so much, and I know they love me back because they did this crazy project with me in such a short period of time. I probably sacrificed their mental health to be honest. I know I did that for myself but...
Kerry Diamond:
You know what, I forgot to ask, what was your father's reaction when you said, "I'm going to publish a cookbook, and I'm going to start to fix this problem?"
Andrea Pons:
You know what, he was so funny. I have to be really thankful, because both of my parents have always encouraged my sister and I to just go after whatever it is we wanted to do. He looked at me, and he was just like, "Okay." He's like, "Go for it. You should do it." He was immediately like, "Let's try it. Anything." I think that just comes from being a very resourceful family. I think being migrants, my parents, although they're both bachelor degree holders... My dad is an engineer, and my mom graduated with her degree in textile design. They both come from owning their own businesses in Mexico.
When we moved to the U.S., there was such a humbleness that happened, because we didn't have status, and nothing was ever beneath my parents. They went straight into janitorial services. My mom would clean residential homes. My dad was cleaning buildings, and then he went into construction. I think what that showed me and my sister is that nothing is beneath us. It really made me really grateful for when I was able to have my first job, which I was a hostess at IHOP. I remember just smiling, because it was the first time I had a job that wasn't under the table like babysitting, quite the culinary experience.
Kerry Diamond:
Everybody starts somewhere, Andrea.
Andrea Pons:
I loved it because it just felt so real. I had an opportunity to do something that even my parents couldn't, right? My parents couldn't just go apply for a job, and go through an interview process. It was whatever was available. I think that it was that craftiness that when I presented to my dad with this wild idea of, "I'm going to sell a cookbook," I think he was just like, "You can do it." He really encouraged me to go after it. He was full of ideas himself. He's like, "You should do this and that." I'm like, "Yeah." We just brainstormed for the hour that it took us to go from the USCIS office back home that day.
Then I really called in my friends. I texted everyone I knew that was a photographer, and I said, "Hey, this is my plan. I'm trying to raise funds for my parents. If I send you a few recipes, will you be willing to photograph them, and I'll put them in the book? I'm going to self-publish it, so it'll be a portfolio piece for you." Matt Ogle, who is my designer, he's my partner's best friend and a really close friend of mine too. At the time, he was starting to build his design business. I was like, "Matt, here's my idea for the cover. Would you be willing to go in with me? Do you want to do it?" He was super down.
Then Erin Motley, who is someone that I've known since college, and even in college, they were always in the world of writing even though we were both in fashion, and then we left college. We're both like, "We don't want to do fashion," but I remember that I told them about the book years prior. So when this was actually in motion, I went up to Erin. I'm like, "Hey, do you want to edit this?" It was really my whole community came in. We put out the cookbook in five months, which is insanity. I had no idea what I was doing. I was building the rocket ship as I was writing it, which I actually suggest that everyone does that.
My mentality with it was at least 80% of the way. Again, it wasn't like, "I'm going to raise $20,000." It's like, "I'm going to raise $5,000," because I think that sometimes people get stuck in their dreams because we think of things as finite. I was talking to a friend who wants to transition from his full-time job to being a storyteller and doing a freelance storytelling. He's like, "I don't know. What if it doesn't work out?" I'm like, "Then you'll figure something else out. Why do things have to be so finite?"
That's what really helped me take the cookbook out was I was just like, "My number one purpose is getting my parents' safety in this country so they can go back to Mexico and visit my grandmothers, whatever it takes." I was working full time as a production manager still and freelancing still, and so it was every minute that I wasn't full-time working, I was dedicated to the cookbook. We were going line by line. I didn't know what a style recipe even was before I wrote it or an ISBN [international standard book number] number. It was just really truly figuring out as I went. So when I see the published version of the book now compared to my self-published version, it's wild.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, I haven't seen the self-published version, so tell me…
Andrea Pons:
I have to send you a copy.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell me what that looks like compared to the new product.
Andrea Pons:
Well, the specs, if you're in the book industry or the cookbook industry, the specs are all wonky. It's a much taller and leaner book. It's 8x11 print paper. I don't know why I didn't have the title in red like it is now, because that makes so much sense, but I printed it gray. That just shows you where I was. There's no headnotes on any of the recipes in the self-published, because, again, it was just get it out as soon as possible. I want it to get out.
Kerry Diamond:
No headnotes, that's amazing.
Andrea Pons:
No headnotes.
Kerry Diamond:
Everybody, the headnote is the paragraph or so literally at the head of every recipe in a cookbook.
Andrea Pons:
There was none of that. I also learned so much through my publisher when I was finally working with Holly LaDue, who's my editor, and the folks at the PA [Princeton Architectural] Press. I was like, "Oh, I need to tidy up every recipe," because I was cooking... The way that I wrote down the method and the tools that people were using, it was like I was cooking for a 1990s cooking show, where you just wanted to make the biggest mess, so it looked like you were doing a lot in the kitchen. I'm like, "Here's a medium skillet, and now you need a large pot. Now, you need a small saucepan."
The PA press was like, "Can you just use a skillet instead of a pot? Would it work?" I was like, "Yes, actually." There was a lot of going back through every single recipe.
Kerry Diamond:
You did the first book.
Andrea Pons:
I did the first book.
Kerry Diamond:
Mamacita version one existed.
Andrea Pons:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Where did you sell it? How did you sell it? Tell us that story.
Andrea Pons:
This is the craziest thing, and this is where I really think social media can be beautiful. I think it's a love-hate relationship sometimes, but it's been mostly love for the last two years, and so I announced the pre-launch of Mamacita on May 10th of 2021, which is Mexican Mother's Day. That was really important for me. It needed to be that day, because I was dedicating it to my grandma and my mom for Mother's Day. It just exploded. I announced it on social media. I was just a single post. I had told some friends when I was first writing the book that this was my intention to someday have a cookbook.
But, I felt really proud that I actually followed through with that, because I think sometimes I say things, and then they don't happen. I felt really proud of myself, but it was also just overwhelming in the best possible way how much the community really showed up. Because in that weekend, which again was Mother's Day weekend in Mexico, so I invited my parents to come grab lunch with us. Two days after I pre-launched, we had already sold over 120 copies. I was showing my parents this Excel sheet that I created as the orders were coming in through Instagram and DMs and Venmo.
Holy hell, that was the hardest thing ever, just keeping track of all the orders. My parents were just amazed, and I was amazed. I'm like, "Here's something. Something's happening." Then I decided to open a website, and start selling them through a website. Shopify happens to be where I work now. Part of the reason I work there is because before I even worked there when I started my website, I waited until the very last minute, because that's just sometimes what happens. The day before I launched the website, I built it in four hours.
I sat there, and I started to cry because it was honestly quite easy to build it. I was so stressed out about the website, which is why I left it for the very last moment, but it just gave me so much hope because I'm like, "Wait, if I can do this, and maybe my parents can start a business..." Anyways, I started just selling it on my own through Shopify, and then it was really fun. I became a small business overnight, but that also meant that I was doing everything myself. I was doing all the packaging, all the distribution. I was the one ordering the print copies, checking them, making sure they all look good.
Then the revenue, most of it would go to my parents, but then I also had to take some back to print more copies. The way that I eventually landed with the PA Press is beautiful and, again, community. I can't express that enough. But a few years prior, I had taken a workshop with fellow cookbook author, Aran Goyoaga. She has Vanille et Cannelle [blog], and she lives in Seattle. When I first started thinking about transitioning from prop styling to food styling, she was having a cookbook workshop. Part of that workshop was food photography, so I was really interested in taking that. I got to meet her.
Kerry Diamond:
She takes such beautiful photos.
Andrea Pons:
Beautiful. She's just aesthetic. Her whole essence is so beautiful.
Kerry Diamond:
She's a lovely person.
Andrea Pons:
She's just one of the best humans. Seattle's so lucky to have her, honestly. I'm lucky that I had her as a mentor during this workshop. That inspired me to reach out to her after I self-published the book, because I want it to be like, "Look, I took the feedback you gave me, and here's the book. It's a reality now." Then I wanted to pick her brain a little bit. I was like, "Hey, I've been selling it on my own for about five months. How did you go about PR?" Because at that point, I was selling to an individual level, and I wanted to start getting into bookstores.
The Book Larder was the first bookstore to ever carry my book. They carried 10 copies of the self-published version, and that was a dream come true. Aran was like, "You know what, I've actually never self-published, but let me connect you to another co-fellow cookbook author, Hetty McKinnon, because she's self-published before. Maybe she has some tips for you." I'm like, "That would be lovely." Hetty, if you ever have the pleasure of meeting Hetty, which I know you have, Kerry, but she's one of those people that is just so wonderful, and no question, took me under her wing immediately after I told her about what I was up to, what I was trying to do with Mamacita.
She was like, "Would you be okay if I shared your book with my editor Holly LaDue?" I don't know. They sometimes commission cookbooks. Again, I was just going with the flow, because it was never my intention to be a published author. I just wanted to help my parents, so I was like, "Yes." I feel very, very lucky because when Holly came in, and the PA press came in, we shared so many values, and it just felt right. So I was like, "Yes, let's do this." It helped me finish getting through my parents' paperwork costs, which I still financially support my parents.
I know there's a lot of folks out there who are perhaps financially supporting their loved ones, and it's rough. It's tough to do that. I haven't been the smartest at it sometimes, because I'm just... I love them so much. I never want to see them go through anything, so I'll rather struggle than see my family struggle, but having a publisher just made the struggle a little bit more feasible. It's just been an incredible dream working with them, and so when they first offered me a publishing deal, they're like, "We got to thicken up Mamacita a little bit."
So in one month, it was November of last year, because that was my deadline, I provided them with 11 more recipes and 30 more recipe photos as well as, I think, it was 11 photos of Mexico. I had a friend that was in Mexico City at the time, and I was like, "Hey, can I commission you to take some photos for me?" Because for the self-published version, I hadn't traveled back to Mexico yet, so I couldn't bring any of Mexico to the cookbook. I really wanted to bring some street photography of Mexico to Mamacita to just round it up.
Kerry Diamond:
I want to go back to when you got the official offer from Princeton Architectural Press. What went through your mind?
Andrea Pons:
I was over the moon. I mean, I spent some time with Holly. I can't remember quite well what happened if we did a phone call or if we did Google chats. I'm a big fan of Google Chats. There's something about making eye contact. I also... I think because I'm an English-second language, I read people's lips. I think it was a week after my initial conversation with the Princeton Architectural Press that I received the email from Holly. I mean, it was one of those emails where you read the first sentence, and it's like, "We would love to." I was like, "Oh my gosh. What?"
I kept reading. I think I read it three times. It was just one of those moments, again, where I'm full of tears, just so grateful. I cannot believe it's happening. I immediately texted everyone who worked on Mamacita originally with me, told them what was happening, thanked them for helping me build something so beautiful that someone was willing to take in, and then told my parents. They were over the moon. I think both my parents understood the value of Mamacita. I remember when my sister read it, she called me, and she was like, "Andrea, I cried because that's exactly what we lived through."
My sister and I, we have such a strong bond, because we remember our childhood almost like it's a movie, because it feels so crazy that that was our childhood. It was such a beautiful childhood. She was like, "This is exactly what we lived through," but I think it wasn't until my mom saw the published version of the book after she came, because she was finally able to come and hear me speak because she's been... I'm fast forwarding a little bit, but she was able to visit Mexico this year for the first time. She spent five months there. Recently, when the launch of Mamacita happened on October 18th, I had an author talk at The Book Larder.
My mom got to come to that. It was the first time she heard me speak out loud about the book, not just read it, or have me tell her about it, but speak to an audience about it. I think it really surprised her, because she got to hear things that I never felt comfortable bringing up to her when I was living through them just because, again, I saw my parents struggling, so I didn't want to add to that struggle. Even my first day of school in the U.S. was so traumatizing. But in the back of my head, I'm like, "I have to pretend like it was the best day ever, and I love it here."
That's not something that anyone told me. It's just something that I felt deep inside of me. I got a little annoyed at my little sister, because she rant, and my parents crying. She's like, "It sucks here." She's like, "I miss my friends, and no one understands me." I was like, "Shh. No, don't tell them. It's going to be okay." Her and I grew up so close, so it was also hard that because we're three years apart, we were in completely different schools, so we didn't really get to be there for each other. It was hard.
Both my parents now, they're just over the moon, and the most encouraging. I text them every day, so I've been texting them photos all weekend of Cherry Bombe. They're just so excited.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us what wound up happening with your parents' immigration journey.
Andrea Pons:
Yes. This is probably the craziest part of this whole story is that how quickly my parents received their status after I received citizenship, and I could apply for them. That just shows you how crazy the process is, because unless you have someone that's already a citizen in the family, and even then, but if you have someone, the process is a lot easier, but it was just so fast. We started applying for immigration for them on November of 2020, and this spring, so April of 2022, my parents received our green cards.
My dad and I found out first, because we're the ones that have all the communication with our attorney. So, my dad was like, "We have to surprise your mom." I was like, "How do you want to do it?" This was all my dad's idea, and he's so goofy, so I was like, "We got to go with it." He's like, "We're going to have a pizza party, and we're going to put your mom's green card in a little ziploc bag inside the pizza box. Then one of you girls is going to ask your mom for a slice of pizza, so she sees it." I was like, "Okay." We're in the backyard. We're eating pizza.
I was like, "Oh, mom, can I have a slice?" She goes in, and she sees the card inside the pizza, and is not realizing what it is, and instead thinks that my sister left her driver's license inside the pizza box. That checks out with my sister. She's left her wallet on top of cars in random places, so that actually checks out. We were like, "No, no, no, mommy, look at it closer. Look at it closer." She's like, "What? What?" She's looking at it, and then it hits her. I think when it hit her, it hit all of us. It definitely hit me differently seeing her realize what she was holding.
She's so, so sweet. She immediately went to this apple tree that's in their backyard, and she hugged it. She was crying. I don't know exactly what she was thinking, but I think it was her way of just being grateful to the universe for the situation. I'm crying now, but I got my tissues. I got my tissues. It was amazing. I knew immediately. I was like, "There's no time to waste." So, for Mother's Day, I surprised her and my sister with flight tickets to go back to Mexico, so they could spend Mother's Day with Titita. It's the first time my mom spent Mother's Day with my grandma in 17 years.
Mother's Day is a big deal for us, because, again, my grandma's a single mother, raised six children on her own. Mother's Day in Mexico is a really big celebration. It's really, really big. We always had something. So for my mom to finally have that time, it was incredible. I really thanked my lucky stars that they gave me this gift. I told my mom, I'm like, "I don't know if it's fair that I feel like I'm getting a gift on Mother's Day," but it was a gift truly for me to see my mom and my grandma reunited, and my sister too. To see them all with Titita in Titita's backyard, it was amazing.
My dad's next. He hasn't gone back to Mexico yet. We couldn't... money's still tight, so we couldn't just send everyone at the same time. I have a dream that someday we're all going to fly back together as Team Pons, and just walk in there like we own the place, but it'll come soon. My dad's next. He's actually flying out, and he's going to spend one month down there. I'm very excited to see him be reunited with his mom, my Tita. I have Tita and Titita. Tita is in really good health. She's one of those women that is so inspiring, because you call her, and she knows the gossip on everyone.
I don't even have to call my cousins to see how they are, because I know Tita is just going to tell me off the bat. She's like, "Okay, so this is what's happening with this person, and this is what's happening with this person." I'm like, "How are you?" She's like, "Oh, I'm great."
Kerry Diamond:
Did your mother and your sister bring a copy of Mamacita with them?
Andrea Pons:
They did not, but I did. When I was in the middle of writing Mamacita in April, I received notice from my family that titita's health had worsened. She went through this really bad period, where she hurt her hip. I think when you're at that age and with something Alzheimer's, anything else minor or big just escalates exponentially, so that happened. For me, it was like, "No more waiting around." I had citizenship by then, so I was like, "I'm going to go to Mexico." I went that June, and I spent a week with my family.
I told you this yesterday, but I lost my voice after a week, because there was not enough time to catch up with everything. I was reunited with Letti, who was my sister and I's nanny since the moment my sister was born. She's my second mom. Seeing her again was insane. My auntie yelled at me. She goes, "You cried more for Letti than you did for me." I was like, "Well, Letti raised me," and so it was wonderful to see her again. I got to see my family before my mom, sister, or dad did. It was incredible, but it felt incomplete, so I'm really excited that my parents now get to experience seeing their family again.
One of the craziest things about going to Mexico and coming back was actually going through customs, because it was the very first time that I went through immigration at the airport after becoming a citizen. I actually thought that I missed customs, because it was so easy. It was so easy. No one put me in a little room and interrogated me. I didn't have to go through this different line. It was like, boom, you're in. I literally was like, "This can't be right." I turned around, and I knocked on one of the officer's doors.
I was like, "I'm sorry. I think I did something wrong." He's looked at my American passport. He's like, "No, just go." I'm like, "Should I go?" He's like, "Yeah. Just leave." He was like, "Go. Go." I was like, "Whoa." It really showed me how different just paperwork down to paper you're treated depending on what your status is. Because even with my green card, it was a whole different situation where I'm…
Kerry Diamond:
After all that struggle just to breeze through customs.
Andrea Pons:
It just shows you it's such a minute thing. I think when you are a frequent flyer, you might not think about it too much. But for me, every time that I now come from a different country back to the U.S., and I have that ease of experience is a reminder of how far my family has come. It's something so little, but it just changes everything.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, Andrea, I think that's one of the most beautiful stories we've ever heard on Radio Cherry Bombe, just your journey with Mamacita.
Andrea Pons:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
So remarkable. Tell us what recipe means the most to you in the book?
Andrea Pons:
I would say the recipe that's more meaningful for me in the book is Titita's orange bundt cake. I come from a family of women bakers. My Titita lost my grandpa at age 40. The same year that my mom turned 10 years old is when we lost my grandpa. At the time, my Titita had just started bakery out of her window. It was one of those things where she was literally selling pies out of her window. That escalated more and more. I actually talk about it a little bit in the book, but there was a really famous bakery at the time called El Globo.
The son of the owner of El Globo had gotten kicked out of home for some reason. He saw my grandma's pies at the window, kept knocking on her door, and he was like, "If you take me and give me a place to stay and sleep, I will teach you everything I know about baking commercially." He taught my grandma for a year how to decorate cakes, how to expand her bakery. After a year, he's like, "My family's taking me back. Bye." My grandma opened La Espanola. She had all my six aunties and uncles working for her, including my mom who would, according to her, take down orders.
But then my mom was like, "Oh, we can totally build you a castle cake." Then my grandma would look at the order, and be like, "Oh my gosh, what did Lorena do?" My grandma had this orange bundt cake. It was her most sought after cake. She would make a ton of them in the morning, and then they would get delivered to all the different panaderias and restaurant lobbies, hotels, places that had baked goods. She would sell out every day. Every Saturday was Titita Tere's house. That's where we went to spend the whole day.
We would eat there, and literally stay until 10:00 PM. Sometimes, I would spend the night, because I just didn't want to leave, and there was always orange bundt cake. I knew I had to have that cake in Mamacita. It's really one of the most meaningful recipes for me in the book.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us about the cake itself. Is there a glaze? What's in it?
Andrea Pons:
Yes. It's an orange essence cake. You actually put real oranges into the cake, which is... It's like biting into a soft, moist, ready orange. It's really special because in my hometown, there's a lot of orange trees. I actually had an orange tree in the rooftop of my house. So, my mom, when she would make this cake, she would literally go upstairs, and just take oranges. You put two whole peeled oranges, seeded oranges into the cake. Then there is an orange juice glaze that goes on top of the cake. You squeeze fresh orange juice, and you mix it with powdered sugar.
I like to add a little bit of vanilla, and so I tweaked the recipe a little bit for it to have vanilla. I think the glaze is where you can really have fun. Sometimes I like to do a really thick glaze, so I add more powdered sugar to have this beautiful coating. Sometimes, all I really want is the orange flavor, so I actually add less sugar. I make it more runny, and I'll add extra orange juice, and just soak the cake in that, so it's like extra moist, because it's already a very moist cake. It's one of my favorites, especially in the summer. But honestly, it translates really well for fall too, just like that orangey…
Kerry Diamond:
The citrus season is coming soon. That's a beautiful cake to make during citrus season.
Andrea Pons:
Exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
I think all the listeners out there, we need to bust out our bundt pans very soon.
Andrea Pons:
Bundt cakes. Yes. Exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
Andrea, it's been just... What a privilege to get to know you.
Andrea Pons:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Thank you so much for coming on Radio Cherry Bombe, and sharing your story.
Andrea Pons:
Thank you so much. This was honestly a dream.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you so much to Andrea Pons for joining me. Pick up a copy of Mamacita at your favorite local bookstore. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe to our newsletter at cherrybombe.com. Stay on top of all Cherry Bombe events, podcasts, and special news. Thank you to today's sponsors, Käserei Champignon and Hedley and Bennett. Learn more at thisisfinecheese.com and hedleyandbennett.com. Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of Cherry Bombe Magazine. Our theme song is by the band Tra La La.
Thanks to Joseph Hazan, studio engineer for Newsstand Studios here at Rockefeller Center, and to our assistant producer, Jenna Sadhu. Thanks to you for listening. You're the Bombe.