Bronwen Wyatt Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. Each week we talk to the coolest culinary personalities around, the folks shaping and shaking up the food scene. Today we're talking with Bronwen Wyatt, the self-taught talent behind Bayou Saint Cake. A New Orleans based pastry chef, Bronwen has become known for her decorating style, which features buttercream squiggles, edible flowers, and even the occasional mini eggplant. Bronwen joined me to talk cake and a whole lot more, including pivoting after the pandemic and setting up her small business. In the second half of the show, we'll get nerdy about how Bronwen makes her cakes and the ingredients and techniques she prefers. I want to give a special shout out to California Prunes. Bronwen and Cherry Bombe both work with California Prunes and the folks there introduced us. Head to our website recipe section for a great recipe from Bronwen featuring a raspberry prune filling. We'll include the link in our show notes. And to learn more about California Prunes, head to californiaprunes.org.
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Now, let's check in with Bronwen Wyatt of Bayou Saint Cake. Bronwen Wyatt, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Thanks so much for having me.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's start with an easy question. Where are you from?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I'm from Annapolis, Maryland. It's a really lovely place to be from. I haven't lived in Maryland since I was a teenager, but I do love returning there. My parents still live there. I had a pretty idyllic suburban Maryland childhood.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you remember the first cake you ever baked?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I do because I made it multiple times for my family who was super patient with my attempts at baking. I had a really old tattered copy of The Joy of Cooking, I think from the '70s, and they had a whole chapter on rolled cakes, like jelly rolls and Swiss rolls, and I got super obsessed with them and made them over and over and over again.
Kerry Diamond:
How old were you?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I think I couldn't have been older than eight years old when I first started doing it.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, wow. That's pretty impressive for an eight-year-old.
Bronwen Wyatt:
I wasn't allowed to have a lot of sweets around growing up or I didn't eat a lot of sweets. My parents were kind of crunchy hippie granola types. And so I got really obsessed with baking as a way of just having sugar in the house and having baked goods to eat.
Kerry Diamond:
That's pretty funny. What were your school lunches like?
Bronwen Wyatt:
Oh my gosh. I was the kid that had the super thick, organic peanut butter before it was cool and whole wheat bread. My mom would buy me the hippy fruit leather instead of the fruit roll-ups. I think she did her best to give me a lunch that mimicked what other kids would have, but I did get teased quite a bit for having the weird food.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's jump to the next phase of your life. How did you wind up at Tulane?
Bronwen Wyatt:
So, I applied to several different colleges and Tulane was the one that I got accepted to that was the farthest away of all the schools. I was a pretty adventurous spirit, I think, as a teen. And I really just wanted to be someplace completely different from where I'd grown up.
Kerry Diamond:
What did you major in?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I was a double major in English and printmaking.
Kerry Diamond:
And did you have a plan? Did you know what you would do with those two majors?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I had this vision that I was going to become a college professor in English and I actually did end up getting a Master's degree in English, but my very first semester of grad school, that was when Hurricane Katrina hit in New Orleans.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, wow.
Bronwen Wyatt:
I don't know if I would've become an English professor if Hurricane Katrina had never happened, but that definitely did kind of throw me for a loop and really it changed a lot and it changed, for me, my life goal plans.
Kerry Diamond:
Where did you find yourself next?
Bronwen Wyatt:
So, I stayed in New Orleans for about a year after the storm just kind of floating. I think a lot of us were still in shock at the way that our lives had changed. And I ended up, after that, moving up to Maine where my brother was living at the time. And he was the chef of a restaurant in downtown Portland and I was sleeping on his couch and not working. And I think he got a little bit frustrated with that. So, he had me come work for him as a prep cook in his fine dining restaurant.
Kerry Diamond:
And had you ever worked in restaurants before?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I had in a sort of dilettante way. I was definitely not pursuing a career in cooking.
Kerry Diamond:
I have four siblings and I can't imagine necessarily working with them.
Bronwen Wyatt:
It was definitely challenging at first. I have just the one sibling. He's my older brother. And we spent our childhoods terrorizing each other, like a lot of siblings do. It was a real education for me in that style of running a kitchen. It was definitely one of those places where you were not allowed to question the chef. Everything was, "Yes, chef." I was not used to that style of working, but I did have to learn pretty quickly. It's funny because I do think that a lot of us in the restaurant industry are moving away from the super strict regimented style of line cooking. But that was my fine dining experience and that's how I learned how to be in a restaurant. I had my professional life with my brother in the kitchen. He was very strict with me and I didn't expect special treatment. And then we had our weekends together, which for us was on Mondays and Tuesdays because we were cooks.
Kerry Diamond:
Then you found yourself in San Francisco. What brought you to San Francisco?
Bronwen Wyatt:
My partner at the time really wanted to move back. They had lived there for many years in the past. And I was excited for a new adventure because I had been working in Maine for about two years at that point. I was also really eager to get away from the cold. And I was a little bit naive, not realizing that San Francisco was also going to be really cold.
Kerry Diamond:
How was your experience in San Francisco?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I loved it. It was pretty transformational. It totally changed my relationship with food. I worked with some really incredible people. And obviously just the produce scene in California is extraordinary.
Kerry Diamond:
Are there any folks you'd like to shout out?
Bronwen Wyatt:
Yeah. So, I worked for Michelle Polzine at Range. It's a restaurant that no longer exists. It was her project before 20th Century Cafe. I also spent a year working at Outerlands in the Outer Sunset, which is just this beautiful little beachy community in San Francisco. And Outerlands was a really homey place. That was really one of the first places that showed me that a restaurant can also be a community.
Kerry Diamond:
I'd love to know some bakers you admire and who've inspired you over the years.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Michelle Polzine was hugely important in my upbringing as a pastry chef. As far as cakes go, I'm really inspired by the work of Sasha Piligian in LA. She has May Micro Bakery. Her cakes and the way that she composes the flowers was hugely inspirational for me when I was first starting out. Rose Wilde, also in LA, is fantastic. She uses a lot of different greens in really exciting ways in cakes, which I think is super cool, and has really pushed me to experiment more in that direction. Oh, Natasha Pickowitz as well, of course. Classic. Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
We love Natasha. To go back to Michelle Polzine for a second, for those of you listening who either love cookbooks or love baking and love technique, Michelle has a beautiful cookbook that she did associated with 20th Century. I'm sure you're familiar with the book, Bronwen.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
It's a great book. What started to emerge then, Bronwen? Did any of your signature style start to emerge, love of certain ingredients? Did you start to gravitate toward pastry and baking and dessert?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I had started working more strictly in pastry when I lived in Maine and that was just a natural evolution for me because I had always loved baking. And then moving to California really showed me the value of moving with the seasons. I think it's like that classic tale. We all fall in love, I think, at some point with the Chez Panisse approach to working with foods in seasons and doing as little to them as possible, just bringing out their natural beauty. Maybe we all don't do that, but I certainly did. So, yeah, that's how it changed my relationship with food. And that's what I really brought back with me when I returned to New Orleans to be a pastry chef here.
Kerry Diamond:
I read an interview that you did where you mentioned that you didn't go to culinary school and you learned on the job. And I'd love to talk about that for a second because culinary school is so expensive. I mean, some people love culinary school and they get tons out of it. But for you that hasn't set you back at all. How did you supplement your skills? Did you turn to YouTube? Did you go through cookbooks? What else did you do?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I think something that I learned with my background in art, actually, there's a strong emphasis when you're first starting in art school of copying major artists. But I do think a lot of folks when they're just starting out really do learn by imitation. And I personally think that's just a natural evolution in how people teach themselves new skills. It's never particularly bothered me. And I think that ultimately the goal is that you will learn through imitation and then develop your own style and really try and make your own mark.
Kerry Diamond:
When did you decide you would launch a freelance cake business?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I would love to say that I decided, but I didn't really. It just happened super organically. When I was still working with the restaurant group, we did the pandemic pivot that everyone tried to, where they were doing large format desserts and large format take-home meals for folks before the restaurants were allowed to be opened. And so I started making cakes for that and it ended up being really popular with our guests at both restaurants. And there was days when the savory chefs would be somewhat slow with their take-home meal schedule and I would be making eight or nine cakes for people. And so when I did eventually get laid off because of the COVID era slow down, people were reaching out to me and asking if they could still get cakes from me. And so I just started making cakes for folks and posting them on Instagram and very slowly developed a following where people were buying cakes from me more regularly and then sharing with their friends. I would get new clients that way.
Kerry Diamond:
At what point did you say to yourself, "Oh, this is a business"?
Bronwen Wyatt:
That was the point I decided that I wanted to name the business. And so yeah, when I had a name, I decided I needed a logo. And then when I paid a graphic designer for the logo, I realized that I had started a business. It just was so backwards.
Kerry Diamond:
No, that's great. I love that. Tell us about the name because it's such a great name.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Thank you so much.
Kerry Diamond:
What does Bayou Saint Cake mean?
Bronwen Wyatt:
So, I live near Bayou Saint John in New Orleans, which is a body of water that moves through the city. It was historically how people would bring boats in closer to the French Quarter back when we didn't have all the same transportation options that we do now. And during the pandemic, my wife and I spent a lot of time strolling to the Bayou and sitting on the banks of the Bayou with a bottle of wine. It was our date night when you couldn't go anywhere else.
Kerry Diamond:
And that's how the name popped in your head.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Exactly. Just Bayou Saint John, Bayou Saint Cake. It was-
Kerry Diamond:
Love it.
Bronwen Wyatt:
... again, I think it happened again instinctually and organically.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us some things that you had to do to be a legitimate business. Because I know we've got a lot of bakers in our community, a lot of folks who do have the at-home business or the cottage business. What did you have to do particularly to go from being like, "Okay, I'm going to make cakes for people," to, "I have an at-home business where I make cake and sell it"?
Bronwen Wyatt:
So, that's actually one of the biggest differences with me and true cottage bakers is I actually don't work from home. I was really lucky when I first started Bayou Saint Cake that my previous employers who, by the way, I did get laid off, but they are just the most lovely people and I still have a really great relationship with them. It was no hard feelings. It was just the times. And then they really helped shape the beginning of my business by allowing me to work out of a commercial kitchen that they had, the first year and a half that I was doing Bayou Saint Cake.
Kerry Diamond:
So, are you still in a commercial kitchen?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I am. I've since moved and I now work out of a commercial kitchen space in the Southern Food and Beverage Museum in New Orleans, which again has just been the most wonderful experience. I've been really lucky in that way. It's definitely made my transition into working for myself much easier. Many folks will rent commissary spaces, which are difficult to find and often very expensive. I will just be forever grateful that I didn't have to take that step because it's really allowed me to grow my business slowly and make really thoughtful, measured decisions about how it will move forward without being constantly strained by having to meet a pretty high bottom line.
Kerry Diamond:
I should use this opportunity to give a shout out to a very good friend of Cherry Bombe's, Chef Catina Smith, who is the founder of Just Call Me Chef. And since you're from Maryland, she is working on opening a commercial kitchen in Baltimore, Maryland called Our Time Kitchen. And it's going to be a commercial kitchen that gives access to folks traditionally excluded from the industry for a variety of reasons, gender, financial, et cetera, and she's fundraising for it right now. I think they're opening soon, but they're about $6,000 short of what their goal is.
Kerry Diamond:
So, if folks would like to help, it's actually on our Instagram. We put it on our Instagram. So, either go back and look on our Instagram or look at Our Time Kitchen. And chef Catina, I believe, is naturallychefcat. It's a great thing to donate to. Like Bronwen said, it can be difficult to find a commercial kitchen. Not every community has them. They can be expensive. So, if you can support Our Time Kitchen and what Chef Cat is doing, that would be amazing. Bronwen, tell us more about the Southern Food and Beverage Museum. That sounds fascinating.
Bronwen Wyatt:
It's a really special place. It was started by Elizabeth Williams, who's a cookbook author and just a really brilliant woman who's been involved with the food industry in the south for a long time. It is just a treasure of different collections relating to the food history and the beverage history of southern states. They had a empty restaurant space that used to be occupied by Chef Isaac Toups and a restaurant that he had, but has been vacant for several years. A close friend and colleague of mine reached out to him about six or seven months ago and asked if we could move into the space. And the director of the museum, Brent Rosen, was really open to the idea. We had a lot of really productive chats about it. And ultimately we developed a chefs-in-residence program. So, as a chef-in-resident at the Southern Food and Beverage Museum, I'm going to be teaching classes. I'll be curating events. And then I'm also allowed to run my small business out of the museum, which has been incredible.
Kerry Diamond:
How can people find out what you're up to? Is Instagram the best way?
Bronwen Wyatt:
Instagram is the best way. Yeah. I'm at Bayou Saint Cake on Instagram and that's where I share most of my news.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you have a newsletter?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I don't, but I really think I'm going to develop one.
Kerry Diamond:
You're the only person out there without a newsletter right now, Bronwen.
Bronwen Wyatt:
I know. I think I've been wondering if maybe the market's oversaturated, but I actually think it would be a really great tool. And just having a backup method of communication other than social media, I think, is increasingly important.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, 100%. Yeah. We upped our attention on our newsletter because I thought the same thing. Pretty much all our eggs are in the Instagram basket. And as much as I love Instagram I was like, "It's probably not the best idea right now to be so reliant on one platform." Speaking of that, tell me some tools you rely on as a freelancer. And I don't mean a bench scraper or spatulas, things like that.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Instagram's been a huge tool for me to grow my business. I discovered about myself that I really enjoy taking photos of food and I think I have a knack for it. And that's really helped develop a larger following. And truly, it's just the more people who look at my cakes, the more customers I have.
Kerry Diamond:
Now speaking, Bronwen, of putting all your eggs in one basket and how that can be dangerous but I noticed you lost your account for a little bit.
Bronwen Wyatt:
I did.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you want to talk about that? Because that's terrifying for all of us out there who rely on Instagram.
Bronwen Wyatt:
It was profoundly terrifying. I am incredibly lucky at the speed that I got it back. I know a lot of folks aren't as lucky, I happen to have a cake client who works for Meta, who was able to speed things up behind the scenes. What happened for me was just they accidentally flagged me for posting inappropriate content.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my God, you post pictures of cakes.
Bronwen Wyatt:
I know. It was so mystifying.
Kerry Diamond:
And one wedding photo. I saw a nice wedding photo of you and your partner.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Yeah. The very occasional picture of myself. But yeah, it was terrifying. I was looking at the prospect of having to start from scratch. And then I also am really lucky that I have a sponsorship with California Prunes that's based off my ability to post on Instagram. So, I was really concerned for a minute there that I was going to lose that sponsorship, which they were so lovely throughout that process. So, I'm really grateful to them for that. Can I just quickly shout out two-factor identification? If you don't have it turned on in your social media and you use it for your business, please, please, please turn it on. I didn't get hacked, but I know a lot of folks who do get hacked and that is your most important tool in your toolbox for keeping your business Instagram account safe.
Kerry Diamond:
That's a good reminder. All right, everybody, you heard what Bronwen said. Bronwen, let's talk about California Prunes. I wanted to ask you about them because you work with them. We work with them. We just did a fun membership meeting where you taught everybody how to decorate cakes. Folks are always curious how do you work with brands? How do you attract them? How do you work with them? Do you have any advice for how to work with brands?
Bronwen Wyatt:
Absolutely. Yeah. I think that you need to really organically love the product or the service that you're working with. I just don't think it works if you don't. And for me, the reason that I got my sponsorship through California Prunes is because I was already baking with prunes and I really love them. And it caught the attention of somebody that works with California Prunes and they showed it to them and they reached out to me, and I was just enchanted by the idea of working with them. I think it's really magical. I think that they're really cool organization and fundamentally prunes are incredibly delicious. I don't think that they get the credit they deserve. I don't think that we have a lot of ingredients in the pastry side that have that kind of richness and earthiness. In savory, you would use mushrooms or sun-dried tomatoes or miso. And I think that dried fruits and things like prunes can really occupy that space in the pastry world.
Kerry Diamond:
I would love to break down a Bayou Saint Cake cake with you.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Of course. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
So, I was thinking about it on the way here, and in my mind there are four components to one of your cakes. There's the cake itself, there's the filling, the frosting and the decorative elements. I'd love to talk about each and the ingredients and the items that help make them happen. So, this part's for the bakers out there. So, any of you out there who are like, "I have been waiting to hear Bronwen talk about cake," this is the moment. So, let's start with the cake itself. What are you a fan of cake-wise?
Bronwen Wyatt:
So, my palate, despite having a really intense sweet tooth as a child has, as I've grown older, I really prefer things not to be too sweet. So, when it comes to the cake itself, I want it to have a really rich and tender crumb and be moist, but not be overpoweringly sugary.
Kerry Diamond:
What kinds of cake do you offer to your clients?
Bronwen Wyatt:
So, the menu changes almost every month based on what's seasonal. I do have some staples of the actual cake-cake element of the cake, and then I'll switch out the fillings and the buttercream as the produce seasons change. I really love working with an olive oil based cake. I think that they maintain their moisture level without having to be soaked, which is a really important tool in the cake baker's toolbox, to soak a cake with a sugar syrup, for instance. So, when you're dealing with an olive oil cake versus a butter cake, the richness and the moisture is going to be there no matter what. I do an olive oil chiffon, which I really love. I have a carrot cake that I adore that I pair with candied kumquats. I do a rye devil's food cake.
My devil's food is olive oil based so it's really rich and also not too sweet. I use a really intense dark chocolate with it and a rich cocoa powder. So, it's super chocolatey, but not super sugary. I think rye pairs beautifully with chocolate. I mean, I think we've seen this explosion in using whole grains and different flowers in baking in the recent world. And I think it's so interesting to try and incorporate the different flavors of different flowers, which compare really beautifully with the other ingredients you happen to also be using. So, I think rye and chocolate are a natural pairing. I really love using buckwheat in an olive oil chiffon. Buckwheat doesn't have any gluten in it, so if you pair it with a cake that's leavened mostly with whipped egg whites, it really lightens it and you can taste the flavor, but you're not dealing with a really dense cake.
Kerry Diamond:
I was going to ask, do you get many requests for gluten free?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I get a lot of people asking if I make gluten free cakes, but I don't get a lot of orders for them. I think it's such an interesting trend. I noticed it when I used to make breakfast pastries, too. Folks would ask if there are plant-based or gluten-free items, but then when I would make them those items didn't move very quickly. So, I'm not really sure what that's about.
Kerry Diamond:
I know you love seasonal.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Talk to me about some of the classic Bayou Saint Cake fillings.
Bronwen Wyatt:
During strawberry season in Louisiana, which is huge, we have a region called Ponchatoula where most of our strawberries are grown and they're always a little bit larger. They're quite sweet. And I think that because they're larger, they're really beautiful when you roast them because you can really concentrate their flavor down. So, I do a lot of roasted strawberry fillings during the season. I'll just lightly coat the strawberries in sugar and bake them in a low oven an hour, an hour and a half until they're almost caramelized, like a 300 degree convection oven, sometimes 250. It's a technique I originally learned when I was working for Michelle Polzine. You hull the strawberry and you put it in a shallow baking pan so that it's facing up so that the point is facing upwards. And when you do that, the juices run out the bottom and caramelize but the strawberry doesn't lose its shape and get mushy. So, what you end up with is a sun-dried strawberry that's completely coated in a rich, intense strawberry syrup.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's fascinating. Okay. And I'm guessing you don't crowd the strawberries.
Bronwen Wyatt:
You actually want to crowd them so that they stay-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, you do.
Bronwen Wyatt:
... facing upwards.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Yeah. So, that's really what's going to allow them to maintain their shapes. They're all tucked really closely with one another and then they don't slump and fall over. Because the idea is that the bottom parts are getting coated in the juices and then you baste them a little bit in the juices.
Kerry Diamond:
Got it.
Bronwen Wyatt:
But you don't want them to sog out. You want them to dry out and intensify a little bit.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh. And there are a million applications racing through my brain for those strawberries.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Exactly. Yeah. They're so good. And they need very little done to them. Sometimes I'll add a little bit of saba at the end just to give it a little brightness, but sometimes they don't even need that.
Kerry Diamond:
And tell us what saba is.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Saba is a really intense, almost sweet balsamic-y vinegar substance that is made from the must of grape.
Kerry Diamond:
How do you turn those into a filling?
Bronwen Wyatt:
Honestly, I do very little to them. I just will spoon a little bit of the deeply roasted strawberries into the center of a cake and then let some of the juice soak into the cake itself.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that sounds so good. What are some other seasonal fillings, not necessarily summer? Tell us what you might do in the fall or the winter or the spring.
Bronwen Wyatt:
So, in the winter in Louisiana, that's our citrus season. It's one of the things that we're really known for. So, I'll candy a lot of citrus or make citrus curds. So, blood orange curd, candied kumquats. Satsumas are a really big thing around here, like sweet clementine small citrus. Folks go mad for satsumas in Louisiana so that's always a really popular flavor. I really like pairing blueberries with custards made of fig leaves. When you infuse fig leaves in a custard, it creates the most incredible flavor. I think of it as an kind of like an herbal cereal milk flavor. And I think it pairs really well with a jammy blueberry filling. We get really lovely local blueberries here as well. That's one of my favorite combos.
Kerry Diamond:
First off, how do you get the fig leaves? And then tell us the technique for getting the flavor out of them.
Bronwen Wyatt:
So, I'm really lucky that I have a fig tree in my backyard.
Kerry Diamond:
Ah. There you go.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Yeah. But also just walking around New Orleans there's fig trees in public property everywhere. So, in the past I might just go through a little stroll through my neighborhood and help myself to some fig leaves. And my favorite way of infusing the flavor is actually to puree. For instance, if I'm making a pastry cream, I'll puree the fig leaves, four or five big leaves to a thousand grams of milk, and I'll puree them in a blender and then strain it out. And the resulting milk will be a bright, vivid green color, which is so fun. And then I'll just proceed with a recipe from there.
Kerry Diamond:
That sounds great. Okay. Let's talk about the part everybody probably wants to hear, the frosting. What goes into a Bayou Saint Cake buttercream?
Bronwen Wyatt:
So, again, it's not going to be super sweet. I don't typically use American style buttercreams, which are the buttercreams made with whipped butter and powdered sugar, because I do find that they can be a tiny bit cloying. So, I use Swiss meringue buttercream, usually. I like to make sure that I'm seasoning it pretty well of salt. I think that buttercream can take quite a bit more salt than folks realize just because it is so rich and fatty with the butter. I also really love a French buttercream, which is made with egg yolks. It just tastes like melted ice cream to me. It's so delicious. It's one of the buttercream that I can find myself just snacking on, which is maybe not something I need to do too much of.
And then recently I've gotten really into German buttercreams as well. A German buttercream is made with a pastry cream base. The chef Rose Wilde in LA, actually, was the one that really turned me onto these because you can infuse the milk with all different sorts of flavorings in a way that's sometimes a little bit tricky with other types of buttercream. So, for instance, if I wanted to make a fig leaf buttercream, for instance, I could make a fig leaf pastry cream and then whip the butter into it and get something that was really redolent of that infused milk flavor. Whereas it's not always easy to infuse flavors with other styles of buttercream.
Kerry Diamond:
And sometimes you'll do a chocolate buttercream and sometimes you'll even do pink. I've seen those on your Instagrams.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Actually, when you're roasting the strawberries with that technique I told you about, that leftover juice that you get added to buttercream with just a little bit of pomegranate molasses is one of my favorite flavors in the world.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I love that. Why do you add the pomegranate molasses?
Bronwen Wyatt:
Because it's really intense and tart. And then I think that one of the things that can be tricky with fruit-flavored buttercream is that the fruit flavor is muted by the fat and the buttercream, and you don't get that tart burst of flavor that we associate with fruit. So, the pomegranate molasses, you can just add a little bit because it's so intense, and it really brings out the flavor of fresh fruit without tasting overtly like pomegranate molasses.
Kerry Diamond:
I love that advice because so often the buttercream really just seems like, I don't want to say an afterthought because I know how much work you chefs put into your buttercreams, but it's not always a great vehicle for flavor necessarily.
Bronwen Wyatt:
I would agree with that, which is why I think it's super important to really care about the ingredients you're putting into the buttercream. So, I use Heilala vanilla-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, great product.
Bronwen Wyatt:
... whenever I use vanilla, because it's so flavorful and it's really special. Just making sure that you're sourcing really delicious ingredients.
Kerry Diamond:
And Heilala, they are a beautifully sourced product and they do a lot for the women who help pick the vanilla beans.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Exactly. Yeah. I mean, this is a whole other topic, but I think it's really important, especially as a white chef, that if I'm going to use an ingredient that it's not rooted in exploitation. And in that I've been really inspired by Cherry Bombe Cover Star and the head of Diaspora, who I think has really changed the conversation around that.
Kerry Diamond:
Sana Javeri Kadri.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
That's why we put her on the cover. Incredible. Just an incredible person. And I've so much admiration for what she's doing and how she's really not just changing, but leading the conversation around sourcing in her category. Tell me about your chocolate buttercream.
Bronwen Wyatt:
So, I do a cocoa buttercream. I actually used to add melted chocolate to Swiss meringue buttercream, but I honestly never really felt like the chocolate really carried through in the way that I wanted. And then someone suggested just trying a straight cocoa buttercream. And I found that you can just really load it up with so much more cocoa than you could necessarily with melted chocolate. Because if you add too much melted chocolate to a Swiss meringue buttercream, it's really going to change it's structural character. But with the cocoa you can add a ton and you get this really intense, multi cocoa flavor.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh. Well, you know what? We have to talk about the squiggles.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Not only do you do these really beautiful, thoughtful buttercreams, but how you decorate the cakes are amazing. You have become known for these squiggles. And you use the term squiggle, right?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I do, yes. Proudly.
Kerry Diamond:
How did the squiggle become your thing?
Bronwen Wyatt:
So, the story that I tell people when they ask me is that I'm really interested, and this is all true, it's just the easy story, is that I'm really interested in Memphis style. I think that squiggles and bloops have really come into our visual imagination again in the past few years in a huge way. You see them in home objects. You see them in art. You see them in textiles.
Kerry Diamond:
And we should point out when Bronwen says Memphis, she's talking about the art and design movement Memphis, not the place Memphis.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So, I feel like you saw a lot of Memphis style in the '80s with '80 graphic design. The cover of a Trapper Keeper in the '90s too, might have that Memphis style where you see the squiggly lines and the different geometric objects scattered over the visual field. And then there's a pattern in retro cake style decorating called Cornelli Lace, which is also just these really fine little squiggles that when grouped together give that lacy effect. And I think that there's a way in which the ones that I do are really larger exaggerated forms of that. So, that's the official answer that sounds fancy. But the truth is is that I was making a cake for a friend and it was for her sister and they have a running joke where they incorporate plastic chicken nugget figurines into things.
They're these old happy toy. I guess they were the toys in Happy Meal boxes at McDonald's. And she really wanted me to incorporate a plastic chicken nugget figurine into one of my cakes. And at that point I was doing only strictly floral decorations. And I was just like, "I don't know how to visually tie these two elements together with a cake that I would make." I had a piping bag of buttercream in my hand and I just did a really playful squiggle in the cake. And I was like, "All right, that looks like it's tying it together a little bit more visually." And that's the first time that I did that.
Kerry Diamond:
You don't use a particular tip, right? For the piping bag. You just use the piping bag itself.
Bronwen Wyatt:
I do. And I think because I don't have formal training in cake decorating, I've never been super obsessed with tips. I think that there's this whole section of the cake decorating hive mind that are really obsessed with piping tips and the numbers of the piping tip, using them to achieve different things. And I think that's so cool, but it's just not something I've ever really delved that deeply into. I also didn't have a lot of cake decorating tools when I first started, because I wasn't really planning on starting a cake decorating business. So, I used what I had, which was just a piping bag and a pair of scissors. And I was able to achieve a lot of different techniques with that. And to this day that's mostly what I use.
Kerry Diamond:
That's great to know because I think for a lot of folks out there who either want to get into decorating cakes or maybe just want to decorate the cakes that they make at home, that you don't necessarily need to invest in a ton of tools at the beginning.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Exactly. Yeah. A $2 offset spatula and a single piping bag and you can achieve a lot.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Now, let's talk about the decorative elements. Because you really go for it. I mean, I've seen everything from miniature eggplants to edible flowers and lots of seasonal produce on top of your cakes. How do you decide what each cake calls for?
Bronwen Wyatt:
I find that I'm most creative when I'm working within some limits that are imposed from the outside. So, I buy these buckets of flowers from the local farmers that I work with. And I might ask for particular flowers from time to time but a lot of times they're just giving me what they have. And so I get a bucket of flowers and then I go to the farmer's market and I see what they've got, and then I'll go to the community garden and I'll just see what happens to be growing. And I'm like, "All right, this is my palate for this week. This is what I have to work with." I think that sometimes when there's so many different things that you could achieve creatively, that if you have a limit it really helps get you out of an indecisive panic mode and really just get moving. And so I find that that really helps me guide how my cakes are going to look from week to week, is just working with what's available.
Kerry Diamond:
What are a few favorite edible flowers?
Bronwen Wyatt:
Zinnias are a classic because they're really easy to grow. I think that almost anyone can grow a zinnia from seed successfully. I also really love working with dahlias. We don't get quite as many of them in the deep south because they're a little bit harder to grow here, but I have one grower or a couple growers now who are growing dahlias. And they're just so stunning. You can get some that are the size of dinner plates and you really don't need anything but a single Dahlia with that cake because they're just art forms in and of themselves. Nasturtiums are another one that are great because they're super easy to grow. You could just grow them in a pot. You don't even need a garden space for that. Roses are classic. They're super lovely and also edible. I should say that I strictly work with edible flowers, and I think it's really important for home bakers to understand that there are plants that are not safe to put on your food and you should be really careful and think and do a little bit of research before just putting anything on a cake.
Kerry Diamond:
I mentioned every now and then you'll put a miniature eggplant on your cake. And I was wondering if that was some kind of in joke. What is behind the eggplant on the cake?
Bronwen Wyatt:
Honestly, I just think that anything that's edible is fair game as long as it's doesn't have a strongly garlic-y or onion-y taste to it. So, if the object is neutral and isn't going to flavor your buttercream if you put it on the cake, then why not put it on a cake? Eggplants are just as beautiful as flowers. Artichokes are just as beautiful as flowers because they actually are flowers. There's so many things that are stunning, I just don't see why I should stop at just something that's considered traditionally beautiful, like a rose. But then yeah, obviously folks find the eggplants to be funny.
Kerry Diamond:
You can't help but read something into that these days.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Yeah, exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. So, Bronwen, what is next for you? I'd love to know.
Bronwen Wyatt:
What's next for me is I'm really interested in teaching more classes. I want to do some more virtual classes. I did a king cake class this past year that was really successful. So, I want to do a little bit more of that.
Kerry Diamond:
You've gotten quite a following for your king cake.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Yeah. King cakes are huge down here. This massive juggernaut, cultural phenomenon. Frankly, the income that I make from king cake season really allows me to get through the summers in New Orleans, which tend to be our slower time in the restaurant industry here.
Kerry Diamond:
For folks who aren't familiar, can you tell us what a king cake is?
Bronwen Wyatt:
Absolutely. Yeah. It's something that you eat during the Mardi Gras celebration. It's a braided circle of yeasted dough that is filled typically with a cinnamon filling and then coated in a glaze. Then it gets topped with purple, green, and gold icing sugar.
Kerry Diamond:
What's the significance of those colors?
Bronwen Wyatt:
They are the traditional colors of Mardi Gras. The legend is that the former leader of Rex, which is one of the Mardi Gras Krewes here in New Orleans, selected those colors. And then a Mardi Gras Krewe is an organization that's kind of like a private club that puts on a Mardi Gras parade.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, Bronwen. Last question. What is the best advice you've ever gotten?
Bronwen Wyatt:
The best advice I've ever got is in regards to pricing my work. And that is if you double the price of your work, you may lose half of your clients but you're still going to be making the same amount of money. When I was first starting out in business, I was petrified of charging what I was worth because I thought I would be turning customers away. And this person was really able to break it down to me and tell me that you deserve to be priced where you are at what you deserve to make. If you lose clients, just price yourself appropriately so that you make fewer cakes for more money and you'll be okay.
Kerry Diamond:
I never thought about it that way, but that's good advice. Now, everyone knows how much thought and intention goes into these cakes. If someone is down in the New Orleans area and would to order a Bayou Saint Cake, how can they do it?
Bronwen Wyatt:
So, the easiest way is to actually go through my Instagram. My website and my email are linked there. I debut the flavors for the month usually in the third week of the previous month. They do tend to sell out within a day or two. So, you'll place a pre-order through my website, which is linked through my Instagram. You can also email me at bayousaintcake@gmail.com for custom cake inquiries.
Kerry Diamond:
Awesome. And don't just wait for a birthday, people. There's a lot to celebrate. Just, I don't know, these days just making it through the week I feel like is something to celebrate.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Oh my gosh. That was my biggest takeaway from the pandemic. Because people were really trying to treat themselves for even small things and I really hope people continue to do that.
Kerry Diamond:
Celebrate the small things. It's important.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. Well, Bronwen, thank you again. I'm a big fan. Your cakes make everybody smile, so thank you for doing what you do.
Bronwen Wyatt:
Oh, thank you so much for having me today.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you so much to Bronwen Wyatt of Bayou Saint Cake. Be sure to follow Bronwen on Instagram for some cake inspiration, and don't forget to check out Bronwen's recipe on our website. Check out the show notes for that link. Thank you to Käserei Champignon and CAMBOZOLA for supporting today's show, and special thanks to the folks at California Prunes. Be sure to subscribe to Radio Cherry Bombe wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss a single episode. Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of Cherry Bombe Magazine. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Thank you to Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center and to our friends at CityVox studios. And thank you to our assistant producer, Jenna Sadhu. And thanks to you for listening. You're the bombe.