Angie Rito and Scott Tacinelli of Don Angie: Transcript
Scott Tacinelli:
We're very different too though, so we kind of-
Angie Rito:
Balance each other out.
Scott Tacinelli:
Yes, we're very different. It takes a long time to learn that.
Kerry Diamond:
Hey everybody, you are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. Today's guests are Angie Rito and Scott Tacinelli, the chef-owners of Don Angie, one of the most popular restaurants in New York. They're also life partners, and they have two babies. An adorable 10 month old named Roman, and a brand new cookbook, Italian American: Red Sauce Classics and New Essentials, which will be out October 26th. mark your calendars. I'm so excited we have Angie and Scott with us today. I ate at Don Angie last night and had a great time, and a great meal. Of course, I had the famous pinwheel lasagna, and the chrysanthemum salad. We're going to hear about that lasagna in just a minute.
Also, thank you to everyone who joined us for this weekend's Cooks and Books celebration at the new Ace Hotel Brooklyn. Angie and Scott were with us, as were so many amazing chefs and authors. Thank you to our sponsors, Le Creuset and Maple Hill Creamery, for making Cooks and Books possible, and to our book store partner, Kitchen Arts and Letters. We have more fun events coming up, so be sure to sign up for the Cherry Bombe newsletter over at cherrybombe.com. Today's show is sponsored by our pals at Kerrygold, so let's hear a word from them, and then we'll chat with Angie and Scott.
Kerrygold ad read:
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Kerry Diamond:
Angie and Scott, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe, I'm so excited.
Angie Rito:
Thank you so much for having us.
Scott Tacinelli:
We're excited to be here.
Kerry Diamond:
This is a big week for you two also because of your beautiful new cookbook.
Scott Tacinelli:
Yeah, we're really excited. We worked on this book for the better half of three years.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. So Italian American: Red Sauce Classics and New Essentials. And I did my homework on you two, so I'm going to pull out all these facts about you tow. It is not a Don Angie cookbook, which I thought was interesting. So you two have one of the hottest restaurants in New York City, it's so hard to get into, I know you're tired of hearing that, but you decided not to Don Angie a Don Angie cookbook. Tell me why and why this cookbook is.
Angie Rito:
We wanted to create something that was approachable for people. We want people to get their hands dirty, and use the book. Obviously we wanted to create something that was... it has beautiful photography, Chris Tastani worked with us, he did a phenomenal job on the photography. But we just didn't want it to be just a coffee table book for people to look at, we really wanted people to get the book dirty, splashed with tomato sauce, and share the recipes with their families. And that being said, we drew influence from a lot of our family recipes. We've included a lot of family photos in there too, which I think kind of draws our personal story in there. We wanted it to be personal, we didn't want it to be intimidating for people. We want people to use it.
Scott Tacinelli:
All of the ingredients are things that are easily purchasable for the most part. We really spent a lot of time making sure the recipes were simple for people to make. I'm really excited about it, I think the book is awesome. I think people are going to love it. I think it's a great book to cook with kids too, there's a great pastry section with a bunch of really cool cookies, there's a meatball section with like 10 different kinds of meatballs. It's a really unique book.
Kerry Diamond:
It's a really fun book, but I did think it was interesting, because you two are serious chefs. Not to do... I think Scott, I had heard you say you specifically did not want a cheffy book. But the good news is, for those of you who are Don Angie fans out there, the lasagna pinwheels, it's in there. So there are a few Don Angie recipes?
Angie Rito:
There's a broad range of difficulty levels in there. So there's a weekend project like the Don Angie lasagna, there's actually a vegetarian version of that as well, and egg parm version of that. But there's also some simpler, quicker, easier thing that you can make on a week night. And that was important to us too, just to have a range of things for people to choose from. If they want to do something special for a special occasion, we have that there, but then we also have, as we mentioned, some more approachable, quicker, easier things.
Kerry Diamond:
I love the title, Italian American. You two know this, I grew up in Staten Island, and I am not Italian American, but I might as well be Italian American. When you grow up on Staten Island you can't help but pick up a lot of the culture. I just thought that was great, that that's what you chose. Why is that the title?
Angie Rito:
We at first didn't realize that was available as a title. We were like, "Oh, there must be a million cookbooks called that." And we went back and forth quite a bit about what we would call the book. The word red sauce was thrown around quite a bit, and then our editor, Jenn Sin actually suggested it, and we were like, "Oh, I don't even think that could be possible as an option," and there it was. I think it's the most appropriate title there could be, it sums up exactly what our cuisine is. It's nods to regional Italian cuisine, it's nods to Italian American cuisine that we ate growing up, red sauce cuisine, but it's very American too. And our perspective is very American, because we're not from Italy, our ancestors are, but we're American.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's face it, America is obsessed with Italian American food. As much as they are obsessed, it's also a much maligned cuisine and culture, and I was curious, was this just a statement on your behalf that, "We're kind of reclaiming this."
Scott Tacinelli:
That's interesting.
Angie Rito:
A little bit-
Kerry Diamond:
Scott's like, "No, not really."
Scott Tacinelli:
I don't know how to answer that. It's an interesting question.
Angie Rito:
There is a misconception in America about what Italian food is, and frankly I think a lot of diehard Italians get offended, like, "This is not my cuisine." And rightfully so, because it's not their cuisine. That's not to say it's not delicious, and amazing cuisine that I'm personally obsessed with. But yeah, we wanted to clarify that, and draw that delineation between... it's a cuisine in itself, and we want to celebrate it because we love it.
Kerry Diamond:
So it's more a celebration than a statement?
Angie Rito:
Let's put it that way, it's a celebration, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
I love the faces, I'm sorry this isn't on video.
Scott Tacinelli:
No, I'm just trying to think of how to answer. It's a celebration, it's a lot of reflection of our growing up, that's kind of how we came up with the book I think.
Kerry Diamond:
Angie, tell everybody where you're from.
Angie Rito:
So I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. I've been in New York for like 13 years, maybe 14 years.
Scott Tacinelli:
We always forget.
Angie Rito:
But I'm from Cleveland. My father's parents are from Italy. My grandfather on that side is from Sicily, and then my grandmother on that side is from Naples. And then my mother's side is a little farther removed from Italy. Her mother is kind of like me, she's third generation, so her grandparents came from Italy. But it's cool because those are two very different perspectives on the cuisine. Because my mom's side has that more removed, "Red sauce Italian," that's very Americanized. That's amazing, and then my dad's family is a little closer to home, they're still a little more traditional. My grandma on that side scratches her head sometimes when I tell her about ingredients or combinations that we use at the restaurant, she's like, "No, that doesn't go with that." That's my background.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you tell me your dad had a bakery, or still does?
Angie Rito:
Yeah, so my grandfather on my father's side started a bakery in Cleveland over 50 years ago now. Is that right?
Scott Tacinelli:
Mm-hmm.
Angie Rito:
I said 50 and then I'm like, "That's way too long." But yeah, that is correct. He came from this small town in Sicily, and he worked as a baker there from... I don't know, I can't get it straight. Sometimes he says he was 8 years old, sometimes he says he was 10 years old. I know he was a very young child, and he went to work as an apprentice in this bakery, and at night time the bench that he worked on became his bed. He literally lived in this bakery, and he's super passionate about baking, it's pretty amazing. But he came to America, and in 1960... 1960? 1961. One of those years.
Kerry Diamond:
We're going to get the fact-checkers on all this.
Scott Tacinelli:
It's in the book. It's in the book.
Angie Rito:
Yeah, it's there. It's a little cloudy, sorry. But he started this Italian bakery in Cleveland, and he specializes in Sicilian stuff like cannoli and cassata.
Kerry Diamond:
Is it still open?
Angie Rito:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
So your family still has it?
Angie Rito:
Yeah, so my aunt runs the store, my dad and his brother still bake, as well as other-
Kerry Diamond:
And what's the name?
Angie Rito:
It's called Rito's, it's my last name.
Kerry Diamond:
Rito's?
Angie Rito:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. Okay, so all our listeners out there, you have to go.
Scott Tacinelli:
It's big, it's huge.
Kerry Diamond:
What do you need to get when you go to Rito's?
Angie Rito:
The thing that they really specialize in is their cannoli, that's their claim to fame. They have a whole line of all sorts of other things.
Scott Tacinelli:
The cannoli is really special because her grandfather and grandmother still come in and make the shells. There's not a lot of bakeries that they still make the shells, a lot of them just buy them from factory-made, because it's just so much easier, but they still make all the shells -
Angie Rito:
My grandfather loves to talk about that, he like, "No, they buy their shells." He's very proud. And you can tell, they're a little misshapen and whatever, but that's I think what makes them really special.
Scott Tacinelli:
I will say this, they make on thing at the bakery, it's not sweet, they make amazing pizza. I'm obsessed with it.
Angie Rito:
It's the bakery-style pizza, the cold sheet pizza. I don't know if you're familiar with it?
Scott Tacinelli:
It's so good.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us more.
Scott Tacinelli:
I'd never really... they call it bakery pizza.
Angie Rito:
I tried reading about it one time, because I'm like, "What?"
Scott Tacinelli:
And you pretty much eat it cold. Every time we get to Cleveland, we're always at our house, her dad will come from the bakery, and he'll bring a whole tray of it, and I'll sit there and eat like half the tray. It's almost like a grandma pie kind of.
Angie Rito:
It's like a room-temperature grandma pie. It's not thick like Sicilian-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, so kind of like Sullivan Street Bakery pizza, have you ever had that?
Scott Tacinelli:
Probably. I haven't had it, but I would assume it's probably like that.
Kerry Diamond:
They do a beautiful job with these rectangular pies, thin crust, and they have one that's red sauce, they do some seasonal ones like zucchini, and things like that that are really good. Give us a few other things, because if people are going to go there I want them to buy a few things to support the Rito family.
Angie Rito:
They make a ton of different cookies, like almond paste cookies. They have this one, they call it the almond S cookie, it's like an S shaped cookie.
Scott Tacinelli:
Those are my favorite.
Angie Rito:
Doesn't like Stelladoro make a similar one that people might know what it is?
Scott Tacinelli:
Yeah, but they're totally different.
Angie Rito:
I'm just trying to think of what to liken it to.
Scott Tacinelli:
These are chewy, and they're so good.
Angie Rito:
So they make a chocolate one, or a vanilla one, made from ground almonds. It's really good. Their donuts are really good, but it's sort of a hot topic. They don't make them all the time anymore, so there's been.-
Kerry Diamond:
So don't ask for the donuts when you get there. If the donuts aren't there, don't ask.
Scott Tacinelli:
For holidays too they make special things.
Angie Rito:
They do.
Scott Tacinelli:
Like rice pie, right?
Angie Rito:
Yeah. The rice pie around Easter is amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
So much fun. So you two ever talk about opening a bakery one day?
Angie Rito:
Not really to be honest.
Scott Tacinelli:
We talk about a lot of things.
Angie Rito:
It hasn't been one that's really come up. Honestly I didn't really get into baking until after I was really into savory, because because I'm just more inclined to savory coking, because it's just a little less technical, and there's a little more freedom with it. I never really dug into baking until recently.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you work there as a kid?
Angie Rito:
I did, but I worked assembling things, or decorating things. I did a lot of decorating things, working in the front of the store with the customers. So I didn't really find the interest and passion for the actual baking until later in life when I was like, "All right, you've got to be more patient," and honestly to challenge myself. I was like, "Let's figure this out." Because I was never patient enough before, and I have what, like 8 to 10 recipes in the book?
Scott Tacinelli:
Yeah.
Angie Rito:
8 to 10 recipes of pastries in there, and a lot of them are inspired by either things from the bakery, or other family recipes from my other side of the family.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, and Scott, you grew up in New Jersey?
Scott Tacinelli:
New Jersey, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us where you grew up.
Scott Tacinelli:
Small town called Lake Matawan, New Jersey, with is in Monmouth County. My mom grew up in Queens, and my dad grew up in the Bronx. So their grandparents were immigrants. Not my grandparents, my great grandparents. Mostly from the Naples area. Came here, settled in the Williamsburg area, and then eventually moved to Queens. And then my dad's mother is not Italian, she's Polish, but my dad's father is also Italian. It's funny, because we always compare notes. I grew up very different than Angie did, because she has a huge family. We've been together for like 13 years, I still honestly have to be like, "Wait, who's this person?" It's just there are so many people, and my family's really small because-
Angie Rito:
Well a lot of the people have the same name too. I'll be like, "Oh, my cousin This," and then he'll bring up the person, I'm like, "Oh no, that's my other cousin Alex," or whatever. It's just like, "Oh, there's a lot of people."
Scott Tacinelli:
My family's tiny. I have one first cousin, and my dad's an only child, so I have a really tiny family. But I grew up similar to Angie, with different things that we ate growing up, and different traditions during the holidays, and stuff, and that's what really sparked our bond I think, and our love for this Italian American heritage, and cuisine, and everything.
Kerry Diamond:
Well that's a good lead in to the next question, how did you two meet?
Scott Tacinelli:
I was working at a cook at... It was called Park Avenue Autumn/Winter/Spring/Summer, and Angie had just moved here from college to pursue a career in journalism actually, and was working there as a waiter, and I was working as a cook. I had just changed my career. I spent almost 10 years selling advertising for CBS radio, and then decided that I-
Kerry Diamond:
Do you want to sell ads for Radio Cherry Bombe? No.
Scott Tacinelli:
I was really good at it, but I decided, "This is really boring, and-"
Kerry Diamond:
On the side.
Scott Tacinelli:
"I don't want to do this for another year, let alone the rest of my life. This is so boring, and I get no satisfaction out of it except for, 'Wow, I make money selling ads,' but it's really boring. I have no purpose in life."
Kerry Diamond:
But you did it for a whole decade?
Scott Tacinelli:
I did, because it was-
Kerry Diamond:
It's New York, time flies.
Scott Tacinelli:
Yeah, and it was fun, and I was young, and I made good money, so I was like, "Why not?" And then I realized I wanted to have a purpose in my life, and I always loved cooking, and I enrolled... I had no idea how to get into cooking so I enrolled into what used to be called, it's now closed, the French Culinary Institute. And I just took a couple of classes to see if I really liked cooking as much as I thought I did, and I really loved it. I had loved cooking in college. I college, one of my roommates... I always tell this story. One of my roommates was really into cooking too, and when I was I college it was 1995, so the Food Network was really new, and it was shows like the Essence of Emeril and stuff. And when I was in college, everybody on spring break was going to Cancun, and my roommate and I were like, "Let's drive to New Orleans and go to Emeril's restaurant."
Kerry Diamond:
Oh I love that.
Scott Tacinelli:
"Let's eat barbecue, and food all..." and that's what we did. So I had always had this love of food, and I grew up cooking with my grandparents, and making things. So I tried a couple classes and was like, "You know what, I'm going to quit my job and enroll in culinary school." I sold my apartment, I sold my car, and I basically started a new career.
Kerry Diamond:
You were serious. Wow, that's a great story. We talk a lot about career changers on our show, because in the Cherry Bombe community there are so many people who change careers, and switch from... like you, selling advertising or doing something, into culinary. So that's amazing.
Scott Tacinelli:
It's a labor of love, it's not for everybody. You've got to really be committed to it.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow, so you sold your apartment, you sold your car. You were hardcore.
Scott Tacinelli:
I lived in Hoboken, New Jersey at the time, and I was commuting back and forth to school, and I had taken a job in the kitchen at a local bar. Because they actually had a chef, and while I was in school I was just easy, and I think they were paying my like 8.50 an hour or something. It was crazy.
Kerry Diamond:
And Angie, how about you? So you wanted to be a journalist?
Angie Rito:
I wasn't sure What I wanted to do. I always was really passionate about food and restaurants in general. I really liked the customer service, hospitality aspect of working in the bakery growing up, and in my mind I thought, "I have to have a 'Real job', I have to go to college, and this, and that, and the other." And in my mind I always thought... my end goal was, "I want to have a restaurant one day." And then once I moved to New York I just was so inspired by the restaurant scene here, and I just realized how passionate I was about it, and the fact that could just... why not just dive right into it, what am I waiting for? So I had this epiphany after being in New York for a few months really, that I was really passionate about restaurants in general, and I was really excited about it, and I wanted to focus on that.
Scott Tacinelli:
Well you've got to take a step back and tell how how we really me though. So after work we would all go to this bar called the Subway Inn, I don't know if you've ever-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, the Subway Inn's famous.
Scott Tacinelli:
And I was like, "Wow, who's this very attractive girl that started working here?" Bu Angie and I just started talking and immediately hit it off because we had this bond of... our family has an Italian American heritage. And that's how we met, and at first it was just kind of a friendship, and then it blossomed into... we took a trip a month after we knew eachother-
Kerry Diamond:
A friend trip?
Scott Tacinelli:
We backpacked through Spain pretty much for three weeks.
Angie Rito:
I think it was a little longer than that.
Scott Tacinelli:
We just flew to Spain, didn't have any itinerary or anything.
Angie Rito:
Well that was before smartphones too, so we'd go to the-
Scott Tacinelli:
The internet cafés.
Angie Rito:
The internet café, and you're like -
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, I want to know the conversation, you two barelY know eachother, which one of you was like, "Oh hey, let's just fly to Spain and backpack through Spain"?
Scott Tacinelli:
It was definitely Angie that initiated that, and I was just like, "Whatever she wants to do, I'm going to do," because I was really-
Kerry Diamond:
You were smitten?
Scott Tacinelli:
I was.
Kerry Diamond:
You were a little smitten kitten.
Scott Tacinelli:
Angie didn't even tell her mother she was going with me. She was just like, "I'm going with a bunch of friends." I don't know, it's just kind of a funny story.
Kerry Diamond:
Classic.
Scott Tacinelli:
And then she really-
Angie Rito:
Well we were talking about... you were showing me around restaurants in New York, that was kind of how we started hanging out too, is I wanted to learn about the restaurant scene in New York, and Scott knew.
Scott Tacinelli:
Well when I was working at CBS I started out as an assistant to the general sales manager, and he was really into restaurants. So he used to take me to all these places, after work he'd be like, "Let's go get a martini at Le Cirque 2000."
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my God, Le Cirque 2000, I remember.
Scott Tacinelli:
He introduced me to all these food that I had never even seen, and that really sparked my love. So I got into restaurants, and then I got into food. So Angie and I kind of... I took her to Second Avenue Deli, she had never had it. And I'll tell you a funny story about Second Avenue Deli, she ordered- Angie is obsessed with pastrami, so she ordered pastrami... she wanted cheese on, and the woman goes, "Oh honey, we're kosher, you can't do that here." She started asking me, because she knew I was a ... about going to culinary school, and doing this, and I was kind of like... honestly, she had a pretty significant amount of college loans. Culinary school is great, I don't want to say anything bad about it, but she kind of already was working in a restaurant. I was like, "Maybe you can just volunteer in the restaurant, or one of the other restaurants that our group had, and just see if you like it before you spend whatever it is on culinary school." And then she kind of just didn't even go, and didn't need to.
Kerry Diamond:
So you had a flair for cooking?
Angie Rito:
Yeah, I just-
Kerry Diamond:
Did you know you did, or you were just determined to learn?
Angie Rito:
I did. In college I'd invite like 30 people over after the bar at night, literally groups of people over, and I would cook meals all the time, late night. I didn't know what I was doing, but I was trying. I'd cook pasta or whatever, basic stuff.
Kerry Diamond:
But for kicks, not because you were like, "I'm going to do this one day in the big city"?
Angie Rito:
No, I just really enjoyed it. Truly I enjoy the hospitality aspect of it, of just sharing with people, and taking care of people, and that's something that is just ingrained in me from my family.
Scott Tacinelli:
It's an Italian American thing honestly, feeding people, and-
Angie Rito:
That's how people show their love. You go to either of my grandma's houses, and they throw a bunch of food at you, that's how they show their love. And that I think is the main thing that really draws me to cooking, and keeps me really inspired every day about it. Obviously there's other things about it too, ut that's the heart of it for me.
Kerry Diamond:
So did you fall in love on that Spain trip?
Scott Tacinelli:
Actually we did. Yeah, we did. I think it was on the plane either on the way yeah back or on the way there.
Angie Rito:
I think it was on the way there. I remember the moment that... it's really weird.
Kerry Diamond:
On the way there?
Angie Rito:
It's really weird. Well because we got stuck on the runway for an hour or two, remember?
Scott Tacinelli:
Was that there? Oh yeah, that was there. And then we-
Angie Rito:
And we've been stuck on a lot of runways, but that was...
Scott Tacinelli:
And then it kind of... I don't know, it kind of fast tracked from there. And then we worked separately for a while, which was tough. Angie worked for a while at Teresi Italian Specialties, and when she worked there I was the chef of Quality Meats, and a whole year I think we literally, and I'm not exaggerating, had three days off together. And it was tough, it was hard. We never saw eachother.
Angie Rito:
I think it was literally two days, I'm not even exaggerating.
Scott Tacinelli:
We were working completely different shifts, and it was hard, and then we opened Quality Italian together, which was nice, because we got to work together, and then we really enjoyed working together.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us how you deal with it, because it's not easy. I failed trying to work with my previous boyfriend, it's not easy to work with your life partner.
Angie Rito:
I think we're both so passionate about what we do, and ultimately we can't do it separately, because like Scott mentioned, we literally would never see eachother, just because the hours of this industry. So that's how it started, we were like, "You know what, why don't we just try working together to we can see eachother?" And it turns out that I think it works to our advantage in a lot of ways. Obviously we disagree here and there, but I think our communication is so tight between us, there's lot of non verbal communication, we just kind of, I don't know, go about our-
Scott Tacinelli:
We're very different too though, so we kind of-
Angie Rito:
Balance eachother out?
Scott Tacinelli:
Yeah. We're very different. It takes a long time to learn that. We've been married for 6 years, we've been together for like 13 or 14, we can't remember, but I'm still learning things that we're different. We definitely are in love, and we definitely are a great match and stuff, but we are definitely different in a lot of ways.
Kerry Diamond:
Or complimentary.
Scott Tacinelli:
I know, it works out good. Angie is super organized, and Angie has to have a list, everything has to be written down. I'm kind of different, I've always had everything in my head which is not a smart way to do it.
Angie Rito:
Well I'm more about creating systems, and things like that, from an operational standpoint so things are... yeah.
Scott Tacinelli:
I'm very... I look at weird details, and things like that. In the restaurant I'm always looking at things to make sure that they're aesthetically nice. Like, "Things look dirty, the corner of the top..."
Angie Rito:
We just naturally gravitate towards different things, and we cover all the bases that way.
Scott Tacinelli:
Our general manager thinks I'm a nut, because I'll see something from across the room, "Oh, there's a scratch," and something.
Kerry Diamond:
Or the spiderweb that everyone's failed to find or a few weeks. I think that's great, and it's working for you two, because you've got the hottest restaurant in New York. Let's talk food. I want to talk about some specific recipes in this gorgeous cookbook. What do you think's going to be the most popular recipe, if you had to predict?
Angie Rito:
That's really hard to say.
Scott Tacinelli:
I think most people will try and make the lasagna, only because... especially people in other parts of the country that get the book that have heard about it and see it. I do think it's a project, the lasagna. It's not hard-
Kerry Diamond:
You called it a weekend project earlier, so tell us why it's a whole weekend project.
Scott Tacinelli:
If you make it start to finish where you make the pasta and everything-
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, make the pasta from scratch?
Scott Tacinelli:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow, okay.
Scott Tacinelli:
Which is not hard to do at all. I feel like it's very intimidating for people, and pasta is, I think, pretty easy to make once you understand how to make it. And we break it down pretty simple in the book.
Angie Rito:
But that being said, if people don't want to make their own pasta, you can buy the sheets of fresh pasts at Whole Foods for example.
Scott Tacinelli:
We give all this in the book too, all examples of everything you can do.
Kerry Diamond:
So you can't do it with dried pasta?
Angie Rito:
No.
Scott Tacinelli:
You could, but it-
Angie Rito:
It's a different sort of situation.
Kerry Diamond:
And tell us what else goes into this magical pinwheel lasagna.
Angie Rito:
So there's a bechamel-
Kerry Diamond:
Which is?
Angie Rito:
It's basically like a cream sauce made with milk, and thickened with flour essentially. So there's that, there's Parmesan and mozzarella cheese layered on there, and there's a bolognese sauce in there as well. Which is kind of a bit of a project, because you make a sofrito, and you cook the meets, and you kind of simmer it all together. So there's that sauce, and then there's a third sauce, which is just a simple tomato sauce, which is very quick. But that being said, there's three sauces in there. And then the actual assembly of it requires... this sounds kind of nuts, but you have to quickly blanche the pasta sheets in boiling water. You can't cook it from just raw, because the pasta just won't hydrate. So all that being said, you basically have to cook the pasta, make those sauces, roll it up, and then you cut it into the pinwheels, and bake it.
Scott Tacinelli:
The reason why we say it's a weekend project it because... you could make it all in one day, it's just going to take you several hours. All the sauces, like the bechamel and the bolognese, really in order to roll it nicely, need to be cold. So you need to make it all, cool it down, in order to roll it properly and make it-
Kerry Diamond:
So make your sauces on Saturday, assemble on Sunday, and you've got a gorgeous dinner.
Scott Tacinelli:
You could make the bolognese, you could freeze it, that's the thing. You don't have to-
Angie Rito:
I was just going to say too, people have... they've made a big batch of it and rolled the actual... I'm sorry, frozen the actual rolls of lasagna, so then they can use them whenever they please. So that's a good tactic too.
Scott Tacinelli:
But there are several other lasagna recipes in the book that are much simpler. There's a white lasagna with potatoes, very simple. There's a lasagna with pesto, you could easily make that in a day. And then there's my grandma's lasagna, which has these tiny little meatballs in it, which is a really-
Kerry Diamond:
I love a tiny little meatball.
Scott Tacinelli:
Which is kind of cool. The picture of that is my favorite picture in the book.
Kerry Diamond:
I love it.
Scott Tacinelli:
I like talking about that one.
Angie Rito:
I know.
Kerry Diamond:
This might be the answer, but what is the most sentimental recipe for you Scott?
Scott Tacinelli:
So for me actually there two. There's that one, and then there's... the real recipe that I think is very special in the book is the Easter pie recipe. So Easter pie, you've probably had this since you grew up on Staten Island. So every year around Easter time, families make what they call Easter pie, or they call it a pizzagaina, or a pizza rustica, and every family makes it different. I don't think you would ever have one at two different families, and they would taste exactly the same. Every family makes it different. So this recipe is really special because my grandparents always used to make it, I used to make it with the growing up. And in the picture... we never had a recipe for it. There's a picture of the recipe card that my grandmother had in the book, but everything's spelled wrong, there's no instructions, it's really... you could never make it from that recipe.
Angie Rito:
There's only half the quantities.
Scott Tacinelli:
And so we have a picture of that in there which is kind of cool. And I actually, from memory, came up with a recipe that I think works really good, and it tastes very very similar to the way my grandma used to make it from what I remember. And I love the picture because when my grandmother and grandfather used to make this thing, my grandmother used to cut all the sausage, and ham, and cheese in her hands, not on the table, with a paring knife. Actually Angie talks that her grandmother does the same kind of thing, so it's funny-
Angie Rito:
She'll do it like a scallion, and I'm like, "Oh."
Scott Tacinelli:
And then while she was doing that my grandfather would make the dough, and he had this special rolling board, and he had a special rolling pin that he would use or the dough. And they've long since passed away, but I have the rolling pin, and it's in the picture. So it's just kind of a special picture to me, and it's really nice that my family has a recipe now for it that works, that my uncle can make it. Because he always tries to make it, and it never comes out right.
Kerry Diamond:
Walk us quickly through the rest of the ingredients, and the assembly, and how long that takes.
Scott Tacinelli:
So this you can make in a couple of hours, it's not a crazy thing. So the way my family makes it is they use sweet sausage, they use hot sausage, and they use ham, just a ham that you buy in the store, and everything's boiled. And then you skim off the fat and you make dough with the fat. And we add little bit of Crisco I believe to the recipe, I can't remember, to offset some of the-
Kerry Diamond:
Crisco, old school.
Scott Tacinelli:
I think it's Crisco. I can't remember what we added, or butter or something.
Angie Rito:
Well what we did to make it... yeah, it was Crisco. We did that to make sure it was super accurate. Because the thing that would always vary every year with his family-
Scott Tacinelli:
Is how much fat came off.
Angie Rito:
Is how much fat came off the meat. And every year they would talk about, "Oh, the dough came out good." "Oh, the dough is no good this year," or whatever. So Scott really set out to be like, "Let's make a recipe that's technically sound."
Scott Tacinelli:
It works out good because it has the flavor from the fat, but it has... yeah. So anyway, it has those three things, and then it has hard boiled eggs, provolone cheese, mozzarella cheese, parsley, and that's pretty much it... salt and pepper and stuff. And I think it's delicious. It's a meal, you eat a slice of it and it's definitely probably 2000 calories, but it's so good, and it's really good-
Angie Rito:
Just a sliver.
Scott Tacinelli:
It's really good hot, and it's really good cold too. Angie's family makes it different, so they use cured meats in theirs.
Angie Rito:
So my family has a little deli in their bakery, and they'll use the ends of the prejuto, and the capocollo, and all this. So their's also varies from year to year because of that.
Kerry Diamond:
Love it. Angie, how about you, what's the most sentimental recipe in the cookbook for you?
Angie Rito:
It's one of the more simpler recipes in the book, but we have a very simple recipe for pastina, creamy pastina. And this is a recipe that we came up with on our own, just with mascarpone and Parmesan, but it's something that Scott and I both grew up eating. We actually recently fed it to our 10 month old.
Scott Tacinelli:
He doesn't really like it yet.
Angie Rito:
No. This last time I feel like he really did. The first time I was just heartbroken, because he was spitting it out, and I'm like, "What is wrong with you? Come on man." But it's something that my mom, my grandmother, Scott's mother, grandmothers fed to him as well.
Scott Tacinelli:
Usually when you're sick they fed it to you.
Angie Rito:
It's just a very soul warming dish, I don't know. My gram used to make it with soup, my mom used to make it with butter and cheese. It's delicious every way.
Scott Tacinelli:
We actually used to do it as a side dish at Don Angie, that's where the recipe comes from, [crosstalk 00:32:44]-
Angie Rito:
Exactly. People didn't really know what it was.
Scott Tacinelli:
So it never sold. The funny thing about it is we actually... we don't buy food at the grocery store, we order from different companies, but nobody had it, so we had to go buy it at the grocery store.
Angie Rito:
We'd literally be like, "Ah Pastina-"
Kerry Diamond:
The tiny little box. That's hilarious. Oh my gosh. What recipe would horrify your grandmothers?
Scott Tacinelli:
I would say the shrimp parm meatballs. So I'll tell you the story behind that. So we have a co-author, Jamie Feldmar, who-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh I love Jamie Feldmar.
Scott Tacinelli:
Who's just did an amazing job helping us with the book. And her and Angie and I have this love for Italian American restaurants, red sauce restaurants, that's where this whole thing started. And I remember one of the first times we went out to dinner with Jamie to just talk about the book, and how we were going to write it, I was like, "Jamie, I've got to tell you something, I love shrimp parm." And she's like, "Oh my God, so do I."
Angie Rito:
It's like a guilty pleasure.
Scott Tacinelli:
And I'm like, "I know it's kind of gross, but it's also amazing at the same time."
Kerry Diamond:
Right, fish and cheese.
Scott Tacinelli:
It's kind of good though.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, I'm not going to lie.
Scott Tacinelli:
So we would order it every time we would go out, and I'm like, "I'm going to do a recipe for the book with shrimp parm meatballs, I have to figure out a way to do it." And it came out really good. It's-
Kerry Diamond:
All right, you've got to walk me through. I have had shrimp parm in my day, loved it, but I can't visualize a shrimp parm meatball.
Scott Tacinelli:
So it's like a farce almost that we make with... like a shrimp mouse. And then we just add cheese, and tomato, and breadcrumbs to it... breadcrumbs, but I think it came out really delicious. And we do it in a brown butter tomato sauce kind of thing, kind of like a Marcella Hazan inspired sauce, and I think it's really delicious, it's really good. It's kind of an interesting way to prepare it, and it's-
Angie Rito:
They have a really good texture too. Shrimp can get over cooked and sort of tough, really like delicate-
Scott Tacinelli:
We wanted to do meatballs that didn't have all meat. So there's a few that are meatless...or not meatless, but vegetarian, or pescatarian. So there's that one, there's an eggplant polpette one, which you see a lot in Sicily. There's a sardine one, which you also see a lot in Sicily, which came out awesome, I think it's really good. And then there's a broccoli and farro one, which you would see... a more modern version. But I love that kind of stuff, and I think that one came out great too. So it's interesting, there's a lot of variety in the book for everybody.
Kerry Diamond:
How is Roman? You two have a 10 month old baby.
Scott Tacinelli:
I think he's going through a little thing right now.
Kerry Diamond:
What's his thing?
Scott Tacinelli:
Well he's teething... no, it's the most amazing thing we ever did, was having a child, it's unbelievable. But the last two weeks has been a little... he's starting to get a little bit of an attitude.
Angie Rito:
He's starting to really develop his personality, and let's just say he's a very strong willed little boy. He's at this stage where he can crawl, but he can't walk, but he can walk if you hold his hands, and he can edge his way around furniture. But he really wants to just be independent, and he gets frustrated.
Scott Tacinelli:
He's like his mother.
Kerry Diamond:
Truth comes out.
Angie Rito:
It's amazing to watch him develop a personality though, it's really cool.
Kerry Diamond:
Scott, guys don't often get asked how they handle the childcare. How are you two handling childcare?
Scott Tacinelli:
We are trying to split it 50-50 as much as possible. I try... obviously I think Angie picks up some of the slack. But for example, in the morning, he wakes up 6:30, 7:00 in the morning, so we try and do I wake up one day with him, Angie wakes up one day with him. So it's fair to both of us.
Angie Rito:
I'm very fortunate, Scott has been very very helpful with this whole thing, and I can't imagine doing it on my own.
Scott Tacinelli:
And then one of us goes home early at night. So last night for example, Angie wasn't at the restaurant when you were eating at the restaurant, and then tonight I'll probably go home, and Angie will stay at the restaurant. We try to, as much as possible, be there to put him to bed. Because I think it's really special to have these moments with him and stuff, and we try and spend three days totally with him, either one of us or both of us, a combination, during the week if we can.
Kerry Diamond:
I have so much admiration for you two. You've got this beautiful restaurant that is so beloved now in New York City, which is not easy to achieve, you've got this gorgeous cookbook, and you've got a baby, and power to you both. I just think you're great, and I know you're juggling a lot.
Scott Tacinelli:
Thank you very much.
Angie Rito:
Thank you.
Scott Tacinelli:
It means a lot.
Kerry Diamond:
Did I hear in one of the interviews that I listened to you're thinking about opening another place next to Don Angie? Did you get that space?
Angie Rito:
We're working on it with our landlord. It's the same landlord as Don Angie. So we are working on getting a space nextdoor to Don Angie. It fits maybe 20 people max, and our intention is to use it just for private events, and occasional fun popup events.
Kerry Diamond:
So stay tuned.
Angie Rito:
Exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's do a speed round. I'll ask each of you, Angie well start with you. A treasured cookbook in your collection.
Angie Rito:
This isn't exactly a cookbook but I think it falls into this category, the Flavor Bible. Does that count? The copy of that book that we have is just tattered to pieces, it's hanging by a thread. But it really is just a great thought starter when we're thinking about and talking about ideas for new dishes. It's just a really great reference to get the juices flowing, so that would be my favorite.
Scott Tacinelli:
Tartine cookbook, that's another one that's... literally the spine is torn off the book. We love it, just for inspiration. It's just really inspiring, it's a really inspiring book. I do have to mention one thing, Roman has a favorite cookbook too.
Angie Rito:
Oh my God.
Kerry Diamond:
He does?
Scott Tacinelli:
This is no joke.
Angie Rito:
Ridiculous.
Scott Tacinelli:
This is serious. He has problem. He is obsessed... I'm not sure which title it is though.
Angie Rito:
It's Lidia's Italy in America.
Scott Tacinelli:
Obsessed with it. Not the pictures, I have no clue what it is. In the back cover it has a picture of a grilled romaine, and he is... I'll hide it, and he finds it.
Kerry Diamond:
Is her photo on the cover?
Scott Tacinelli:
Yeah, he loves her photo.
Angie Rito:
So he has this little shelf with all of his baby books, and then above that there's a shelf of our cookbooks-
Scott Tacinelli:
There's several shelves.
Angie Rito:
Right, there's a lot of shelves. But he reaches for the books on our shelf, and it's always that book. And like Scott said, he will literally try and hide it and Roman will find that book. He's obsessed with it.
Kerry Diamond:
Does he think Lidia Bastianich is one of his grandparents maybe?
Scott Tacinelli:
I don't know, but-
Kerry Diamond:
Do you two know Lidia?
Scott Tacinelli:
I met her years agio before I was even a chef, but I don't know her now.
Kerry Diamond:
She would love this story, we should tell her. Maybe she could be a-
Angie Rito:
It's so funny.
Scott Tacinelli:
I need to take a video of it, because it's hilarious. Every day, at least twice a day he pulls... he's got to see this book.
Angie Rito:
He's got to look at it, he's got to touch it.
Kerry Diamond:
I feel like she'd be thrilled to be like a fairy godmother to Roman. That's so cute, oh my gosh. Okay, favorite kitchen implement?
Angie Rito:
Probably the microplane. Very versatile tool. We use it quite a bit for zesting citrus. We use it quite a bit for grating garlic.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you keep the garlic one separate from the one for everything else? Because I worry I don't clean my garlic... it's hard to clean a microplane.
Angie Rito:
Let's just say there's garlic in everything I make, except for cookies or something. Obviously we clean it, but it's not separate.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, microplane, love it.
Scott Tacinelli:
Mine is the plastic pastry scraper. Like $2, probably $1, but I use it for cleaning things up, picking up chopped whatever it is-
Kerry Diamond:
Herbs or something?
Scott Tacinelli:
Yeah. Cleaning out bowls of stuff, and dough, and stuff like that. I use it all the time at work, and I use it all the time... I always keep it in my chef coat, and I use it at home a lot.
Kerry Diamond:
Chef's fridges are always very unique, what is the oldest thing in your fridge at home?
Angie Rito:
This is such a funny question. Our fridge forever was literally just condiments, but now that we have a baby, we're making all of Roman's food, so now Roman's food is just taking over the fridge. But I would say the oldest thing must be a bottle of some sort of hot sauce.
Scott Tacinelli:
So one of our cleaning people in the restaurant, he makes hot sauce every year. He's from Jamaica, right? And he makes... I love hot sauce, and I can't eat it. So that's been in our fridge because I eat a little bit here and there, but it's so hot. But it's really good though, and he always leaves me a jar of it, so we have one. It's probably a couple years old, but I think it gets better with age that kind of thing.
Kerry Diamond:
Cool. Music in the kitchen.
Scott Tacinelli:
We play music in the kitchen. Up until service starts we play music in the kitchen. What type of music do we play, is that-
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, what's on the Don Angie playlist?
Scott Tacinelli:
Well if it were me, I'd play the music I love. But I don't like to subject everybody to the... I grew up listening to the Grateful Dead, and Phish... and on a side note, Trey Anastasio is a huge fan of the restaurant, and-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh that must thrill you.
Scott Tacinelli:
Yeah, and his father comes, and his father and I have become friends, and Trey and I have become friends, and he actually dedicated a song to Roman when he was born, which was kind of awesome.
Angie Rito:
At one of his shows.
Scott Tacinelli:
Sorry, I had to bring that up.
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, so you're a Deadhead? I wish I'd known this at the beginning of the show, it's such a different take on you now. Did you see Hedley and Bennett just did a Grateful Dead apron?
Scott Tacinelli:
Yes, I sent it to... one of the chefs that we work with in our company, he's a Deadhead, and I sent him a screenshot of it yesterday, and I was like, "You should get this."
Kerry Diamond:
Got the dancing bears on the apron, I was like, "That's a pretty hot collab."
Scott Tacinelli:
I don't ever play it in the kitchen unless I'm there by myself because I don't like to subject everybody to that. People don't want to listen to jamming for 20 minutes.
Kerry Diamond:
You're so kind Scott, how about you Angie?
Angie Rito:
I don't usually man the radio, but I feel like we do gravitate to a lot of eighties music.
Scott Tacinelli:
Like Hall and Oates Radio.
Angie Rito:
Oh Hall and Oates really gets people going.
Kerry Diamond:
Just a little yacht rock.
Angie Rito:
I think it's funny, because Scott and I... this was one of our, "Fights," in the restaurant, is playing music in general. I think it just lightens the mood and stuff, so I kind of win that battle, and we play-
Scott Tacinelli:
I like it now though, I'm over it.
Angie Rito:
He's over it, he's moved on. But we play it all morning long during prep time, and then obviously right when service starts we turn it off. But I think it's nice-
Scott Tacinelli:
It's a range, it ranges. Sometimes-
Angie Rito:
It literally changes all the time.
Scott Tacinelli:
Guitar rock sometimes.
Angie Rito:
Cooks pick what they want to listen to, whatever.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, so thumbs up to music. Dream travel destination? Where would you two like to go as a couple next?
Angie Rito:
Where would I like to go next? I'm really dying to go back to South East Asia in general. We had an amazing trip to Thailand together... I don't know, it was like eight years ago now. As soon as Roman is old enough I want to go back there for sure.
Scott Tacinelli:
Yeah, back to Tokyo. We were in Tokyo right before the pandemic started, and then end of the trip kind of-
Angie Rito:
It got a little weird because we weren't-
Scott Tacinelli:
It got a little crazy because... we came back the first week of March. So it wasn't as enjoyable as I think it could have been, so I would love to go back once we're through this whole thing, because that place was just... Tokyo was-
Angie Rito:
Yeah, I'd love to go back there.
Scott Tacinelli:
And Japan was just unreal. It was the coolest place. And Italy, we go there every...
Kerry Diamond:
And last question, if you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be, and why, Angie?
Angie Rito:
I guess I'll have to say Michael Simon. He's a fellow Clevelander, and just a really good guy, and I feel like we could grill some conch or whatever. I don't know.
Kerry Diamond:
Scott's got a look on his face?
Angie Rito:
Scott's like, "What?" said it I'm like, "Is it weird?"
Scott Tacinelli:
No we love him, he's so nice.
Angie Rito:
He's cool.
Kerry Diamond:
I think you're the first person to give that answer. I won't say which the popular answers are, let's let Scott finish.
Scott Tacinelli:
Which celebrity? I know this is going to sound so funny, but I said this last night. I am a huge fan of Ignacio Mattos, huge. I'm like a fanboy. I just think his food is so amazing, and listen, if I'm going to be trapped with somebody, I want to be trapped with somebody that's going to be able to cook good food, and I'm going to enjoy eating. So I would love to be trapped him. I just think the guy's fascinating, I think his food is absolutely delicious.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay cool, I think those are two Cherry Bombe firsts.
Angie Rito:
I thought you were going to say Giada or something.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show, thank you so much to Angie Rito and Scott Tacinelli of Don Angie for stopping by. Their debut cookbook, Italian American: Red Sauce Classics and New Essentials will be out October 26th. I can't wait to make that pinwheel lasagna. Thank you so much to Kerrygold for supporting our show, and thanks again to Le Creuset, Maple Hill Creamery, and Ace Hotel Brooklyn for supporting Cooks and Books. Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of Cherry Bombe Magazine. If you enjoyed this episode, we've got lots of other great ones, like my recent chat with Stanley Tucci, and my interview with little Roman's favorite, Lidia Bastianich. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget to signup for the Cherry Bombe newsletter over at cherrybombe.com so you don't miss any of our podcasts episodes or upcoming events. Radio Cherry Bombe is recorded at Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in New York City, thank you to Joseph Hazan, studio engineer for Newsstand Studios, and to our assistant producer, Jenna Sadhu. Thanks for listening everybody, you are the bombe.