Jenn harris transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to a special Radio Cherry Bombe miniseries called Hey Hey, L.A. I'm your host, Kerry Diamond. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine, and each week I talk to the most interesting women in and around the world of food. For this miniseries, I interviewed three creatives putting their own mark on the Los Angeles culinary scene. This is the second of three interviews.
Today I'm chatting with Jenn Harris, food columnist for the Los Angeles Times, and one of the coolest people you will ever meet. If you need to know where and what to eat in Los Angeles, just check out what Jenn is writing about or sharing on her social media. Jenn was introduced to the region's food scene early on. Born in L.A., she grew up in Pasadena with a Chinese grandmother who babysat frequently and who loved nothing more than introducing her two young granddaughters to the local food scene. On her father's Russian, British, and Jewish side, she had another food focused grandmother, and both women were great cooks. While Jenn's first love was food, she also realized at a young age that she enjoyed writing and was pretty good at it. She shares her food and journalism journeys on today's show and talks about some of the mentors she had along the way, including the legendary Jonathan Gold, the Late L.A. Times restaurant critic. Stay tuned for my chat with Jenn.
Our Hey Hey, L.A. miniseries is presented by Square. Millions of sellers across the globe trust Square to power their business. I have a feeling most of you have seen Square in action at farmer's markets, bake shops and cafes, but Square today is so much more than a payments company. Square is helping restaurant operators run nearly every part of their restaurants with powerful tech that keeps the front and back of house in sync. And that's all kinds of restaurants, quick service, full service, fast casual, bars and breweries, even ghost kitchens. Square wants to give you the power to drive sales, streamline your kitchen, gain insights to help you make better decisions and keep customers coming back with loyalty and marketing programs. If you need help and want to take your restaurant business to the next level, it's time to talk to a Square restaurant specialist to learn how Square can help you. Visit squareup.com/restaurants to learn more. We'll share that link in our show notes. Get in touch with Square and get yourself out of the weeds. Again, that's squareup.com/restaurants.
Now, let's check in with today's guest. Jenn Harris, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Jenn Harris:
Thank you for having me.
Kerry Diamond:
We are going to start back in your childhood. I thought that would be a fun place to go because you had an interesting childhood and it definitely put some of the pieces together as to why you're doing what you're doing today. So where did you grow up?
Jenn Harris:
I grew up in Pasadena, so all around Los Angeles. I was born in L.A., first in Monterey Park when I was really little, and then we moved to Pasadena when I was seven, but all around the San Gabriel Valley, basically.
So I grew up eating the best Asian food ever all along Valley Garvey in San Gabriel, Arcadia, Monterey Park, Alhambra. My grandma still lives in Monterey Park, and we just spent so much time at the restaurants there going to dim sum, having Chinese banquets, just when my grandma would babysit us, which was often, we'd end up at the Hong Kong style cafes.
Kerry Diamond:
So your grandmother would babysit you?
Jenn Harris:
Yes. My grandmother would babysit my sister and I and take us to eat at all the Hong Kong style cafes along like Valley Boulevard and Atlantic that she loved. So we grew up eating rice porridge and chow mein and chow fun and cafe food, which is its own kind of genre. I spent a lot of time there. And then, so my mom's side of the family is Chinese. My dad's side of the family is Russian, British, Jewish, and both grandmas are great cooks and really into food. And both of them were babysitting us often.
Both my parents work, so with my Chinese grandma, it was the best dumplings and noodles and dim sum all the time, and she's such a great cook. And she would make these rice cakes that were delicious and these pork ribs. And then on my Jewish side, that grandma was also really into food, but it was more like she introduced us to Lipton Onion Dip, which is the best thing ever.
Kerry Diamond:
My mom makes that for every holiday.
Jenn Harris:
I mean, I don't know why more people don't love this or they do and they're just not talking about it. I'm here to talk about it. So thank you Grandma Phyllis for introducing me to the Lipton Onion Dip. It's near and dear to my heart always. We've always had big deli platters and latkes. Both sides of family so into food, two radically different cultures, and it was just really fun to get to experience both of that growing up.
Kerry Diamond:
You're so lucky to have had that.
Jenn Harris:
I think so. I ate really well. I still eat well, but I ate really well growing up, for sure.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you cook as a little kid?
Jenn Harris:
I tried. I remember the first thing I ever cooked because it was terrible, but it smelled so good. So I just remember I liked the smell of onions, like cooking in butter. Both grandmas would cook stuff, and that's actually the secret to my grandma's fried rice is butter.
But I just remember thinking, I want to cook something for myself. I don't know what to cook. And I don't know where my mom was, but I was in the kitchen and I just took out the butter and some onions and I just put them in a pan, but I didn't know what else to do with it. I don't remember how old I was. I was very young.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you cut up the onion as a little kid?
Jenn Harris:
No, no. There was bowls of cut up stuff in the fridge, like vegetables or whatever, just to make it easier for my mom to cook when she was cooking. So I kind of just was like, I've seen her do this before. I just put it in a pan it started heating up and I just ate sauteed onions, which fine, but I was getting there, I guess. So I was like, okay, so this is going to make something taste good.
I would be in the kitchen with my mom asking her to show me things. My grandma… I was always in the kitchen with my grandma trying to ask her what to do, but she still does this. She doesn't measure anything, like most grandmas, they just are magical being that know how to cook and sense when something's done and how much to put in it and how long to cook something for.
So I ended up, I'd be like, I'd grab her hand so I could see, "Okay, how much of that are you like...?" And then try and measure it, and then she'd be like, "Well, it's going to be different next time I cook it." I sometimes think she was messing with me. I got into cooking at a young age and I still really like to do it. I just wish I had more time to.
Kerry Diamond:
I know. Don't we all?
Jenn Harris:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, I got to go back to the onions and butter. Because most kids, their first thing is, I don't know, like toast or a scrambled egg or fried egg or grilled cheese or something like that. But no, you, onions and butter, you went for it.
Jenn Harris:
Yeah, I went for it and didn't realize I needed to put more things in the pan, but it smelled so good. I was like, oh, I got it because it smells really good, and obviously you need more than that, but, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
That is one of the world's great smells.
Jenn Harris:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
You get a little older, writing becomes of interest to you. When did you start to realize you were a good writer?
Jenn Harris:
It was in middle school. I entered a writing contest in the fourth grade and I won. I liked writing, but I didn't think I could do that professionally. I just was like, this is fun for me to do. And then I won the writing contest. I was still really young, but I was like, oh, maybe I can turn this into something.
And then I would write for my yearbook or school paper. In high school I entered another, a literary contest and I won second place and I was like, okay, I think I'm going to stick with this.
I loved reading. I loved magazines. I loved looking at magazines. When I was really young, I cut up a bunch of articles and pictures and then pasted them on pieces of paper and called it Jenn's Mag. I mean, obviously had nothing to do with the content, but I just was like, oh, I just love this.
I've had subscriptions to magazines forever. My parents are avid readers of newspapers. They've had print subscriptions forever. Thank goodness. We need more people like them. They still get the paper every morning, multiple papers. So I just grew up around good reading and writing. But I think it was after that first contest win that I was like, all right, this could be something.
Kerry Diamond:
You were hooked. Were you like a Sassy Magazine or Jane? What was...?
Jenn Harris:
Oh, everything. I used to, I mean, I'm still into fashion, but Vogue. I read Vogue nonstop. Yes to Jane, Cosmo when I got older, even though my mom still had an issue.
Kerry Diamond:
Hide that from mom.
Jenn Harris:
Yeah, I still had to hide it from mom for a while. No, and I remember saving up all my money. I don't know if this is going to date me. When I was in third, fourth grade, they had ordered books from a pamphlet that came around at school, I forgot what-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, Scholastic, right?
Jenn Harris:
Yes. And you sent in money.
Kerry Diamond:
Yes.
Jenn Harris:
So I remember saving my quarters.
Kerry Diamond:
Same.
Jenn Harris:
To buy books. And then I also remember that it was lights out at 9:00 o'clock or 8:30 or whatever, but I remember I thought I was so smart, I saved up my money to get that reading light that you click to the book so that I could read Goosebumps or whatever it was I was reading, Babysitters Club, past 10:00. I don't know why that came to me right now, but...
Kerry Diamond:
No, I think we had similar childhoods in that respect. You were lucky to find some mentors at a young age. I read that there were actually some high school teachers who really encouraged you as a writer?
Jenn Harris:
Well, I went to Mayfield Senior School in Pasadena, which was a great school. But yeah, I had some fantastic English teachers. Jim Moran was one of them. I think he retired. I mean, I think he just retired from teaching, but he was so great.
He was actually a really good editor too, so when he'd give you your essays back and then he'd make really great line editing notes. He was just, it wasn't just a grade, it was just like, "Actually, here's how you could have improved this or these prose were great-"
Kerry Diamond:
I love it. Jim was a frustrated copy editor.
Jenn Harris:
I mean, he was so fantastic. I think he really helped put me on this path to pursue writing.
Kerry Diamond:
You head to college. What do you study?
Jenn Harris:
I studied literary journalism at UC Irvine, so that's actually why I went there. I was the first graduating class studying that. It was great. It was a really great program. It's drastically different now. It was a great program, but it was more about writing pretty than reporting.
So they actually didn't have any reporting classes. There was a Personal Essay class and there was an Arts Criticism class and all that was really great. And we were reading Truman Capote and Joan Didion, and it was really great. But there wasn't any reporting. Not that you need to go to school for reporting, but I feel like you do need to be required in your stories or whatever to actually go out and report.
Kerry Diamond:
Someone has to teach you how to be a reporter.
Jenn Harris:
Yes. So that's actually why I ended up going to USC Annenberg for grad school for their two-year program. And that was wild. I remember it was the first day of orientation, I think my class was around 60 people, and you're in this auditorium, and they said, "All right, we're going on a field trip."
So they broke us up into groups of six and they dropped us off at different points in L.A. out of a van. And were like, "All right, come back with a story or pitch a story in a couple of hours." I ended up getting dropped off on Skid Row with five colleagues who are great, but at the time, we didn't know each other and we were just like, okay.
But that's kind of how it was, which is what I needed and I'm so grateful that I had that because in my, what, almost 13 years at the Times, nothing has ever been that difficult. It's just like I was never in that situation again. And no matter what happened, breaking news or whatever, I was like, I can do this.
Annenberg kicks your butt and it was very good. And there were great professors and that they had day of air packages where it was like, we're going to email you your story assignment at 6:00 AM. You're going to go out and do whatever you need to do and file it by 4:00 or earlier or whatever.
And those days just real... I was sweaty the entire day and stressed. But when you got it in... but I'm telling you, nothing I've had to do in my professional career has compared to the day of air packages from USC Annenberg.
Kerry Diamond:
I never even knew the term air package.
Jenn Harris:
Video packages. So you basically had to go out with your own camera and tripod. It used to be three-pronged on air and then written and online. So you did all three.
Yeah, for the on-air packages, you have to go out, film your standup, get interviews with whoever you need to interview, write your own copy for your script, come back to the editing lab, put together your own package, edit it yourself using AVID News Cutter and then file it.
Kerry Diamond:
Damn.
Jenn Harris:
It was out of control. It was.
Kerry Diamond:
So what did you think you would do back then? Did you think you would go the broadcast route?
Jenn Harris:
I knew I wanted to write. I didn't mind video. I wasn't mad at video. It was fine, and I was happy to do it, and it was great that they train you with all three, but no, I wanted to be a writer.
Kerry Diamond:
Today we know you for your food writing, but back then you wound up doing a variety of things. You even worked for a maritime publication?
Jenn Harris:
Oh, yeah. Okay. One was called Fish Wrap, so it was like a Fish Wrap news magazine. So it was like all fishing stuff. And then the Log Newspaper was the Maritime News, and then it was also a Yacht Magazine.
So I worked for this publishing company in Orange County. Because in college, people are like, "You have to get an internship. You're not going to get anywhere unless you get an internship." And I was like, all right, well, I want to do food writing. There aren't any internships that I could find. So I was like, I'm just going to get experience anywhere I can. It's called the Duncan Macintosh Publishing Company. And I interviewed with them and I told them, I was like, "This is not exactly like the subject matter I love or that I'm super into, but I will learn about it. I'm a quick learner." And I was like, "And I can do this."
So it ended up being great because they put me in charge of four sections of their newspaper. It was really good experience. I did it for over a year and I'm really happy I did it. But it just taught me that the subject matter doesn't matter. A good story is a good story. Reporting is reporting. It does not matter what your beat is. You can do it well regardless, even if you're not... you don't have to be personally interested in it. You can still do it.
Kerry Diamond:
That's great advice.
Jenn Harris:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
It's also amazing if you are an intern and you show some initiative and ownership, the responsibility he will be given, you might be shocked.
Jenn Harris:
Yes. And I was very... Yeah, they really were like, "All right, if you want to do this." And I was like, "Here's five things that you're not doing that I can do for you." They will let you do it. So it was great.
Kerry Diamond:
So like you said, you didn't want to stay with that. You didn't want to become the yacht reporter, the fish... I love the title Fish Wrap. That's so funny.
Jenn Harris:
So good.
Kerry Diamond:
But you probably have a better appreciation for fisher folk out there after something like that.
Jenn Harris:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
So what do you do next? What do you do after that?
Jenn Harris:
So I ended up... So after, or as soon as I graduated... I mean, I was working for the university newspaper too, so doing entertainment stuff for them, foodstuff for them. And then right after I graduated, I got a job with an editorial press agency. It was called Cool Hunt, and I don't actually know if it's around anymore. But a bunch of international press would commission us to write stories about L.A. nightclubs, restaurants, bars, hotels, anything lifestyle related. And so that's what I did for my year in between undergrad and grad school.
Kerry Diamond:
Sounds like a dream job at that age.
Jenn Harris:
It was. It did not pay well.
Kerry Diamond:
Dream jobs often don't pay well.
Jenn Harris:
They basically were like, yes, you'll get a byline. It was like pennies. I was like, crap. But I was so excited just to get the experience. So I have articles in Cosmopolitan Hong Kong and Ray Li China and Vogue Taiwan, where it's all in another language, but then it says by Jenn Harris, but I still got such a kick out of it. I loved it. After I did that, then I ended up in grad school shortly after grad school I ended up at the L.A. Times, but not in the food section.
Kerry Diamond:
There's a twist, folks.
Jenn Harris:
They only had an opening working on the digital side for our image section, which is great, which is fashion, and then book review. I remember talking to my mom being like, "Mom, I don't want to do fashion. This is not what I want to do." And she was like, "Just get your foot in the door and kick it open." She's like, "It doesn't matter what..." She's like, "Just get into that newspaper and then you'll figure out a way to do what you want to do." And it was the best advice ever, and that's what I did.
Kerry Diamond:
That's excellent advice. Did you know back then what you wanted to do or you weren't sure?
Jenn Harris:
Oh yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, you knew food.
Jenn Harris:
I knew food. I'd been wanting to do it for a while. And then when I was at USC in grad school, my classes also started something called Neon Tommy, which I don't think it's around anymore either, but it was like their first digital news publication. And so I was writing foodstuff for them, restaurant stuff, cooking. Oh my God, I even had a really embarrassing dating column that I hope no one can find online.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. Cherry Bombe subscriptions are back. Head to cherrybombe.com and learn how you can subscribe to the world's most beautiful food magazine. Cherry Bombe is a feast for the senses. It's printed on lush paper with gorgeous color photographs, great profiles and features and recipes you'll love recreating at home. Get four issues each year, delivered direct to your mailbox. Head to cherrybombe.com to learn more. Now, back to our guest.
Who were your heroes back then? Who did you admire? What made you think that food was the path you wanted to take?
Jenn Harris:
I was a huge Jonathan Gold fan, even before when he was writing music stuff for Weekly, I thought he was just so fantastic and just so unique with his voice. I also was reading M.F.K Fisher. Oh man. I actually really was into Jeffrey Steingarten because he was the restaurant critic for Vogue. And so I'd read his stuff all the time.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you know Gail Simmons was his assistant for several years?
Jenn Harris:
I didn't know Gail Simmons was his assistant. I love that. But I read the L.A. Times Food section religiously. So I was reading Russ Parsons, who ended up being my editor for a while. I was reading Gourmet Magazine, so Laurie Ochoa Gold, who's now my boss. But it's really been great that I was reading these people and then getting to work with them felt and-
Kerry Diamond:
And Ruth Reichl was at the L.A. Times.
Jenn Harris:
Yes, and Ruth. Oh, oh my god. I read Ruth religiously too. I still think her newsletter she has now is really great.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, great, yeah. La Briffe, am I saying it wrong?
Jenn Harris:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah.
Jenn Harris:
No, you're saying it correctly, I think. But yes, that's it. So I still read her all the time. But getting to actually work with these people has been such a privilege too. I feel very fortunate.
Kerry Diamond:
And what was it about food? I mean, yes, you had all these great writers, but what was it about food in particular that you thought that was something you could put your own spin on?
Jenn Harris:
I mean, just because it was always such a big part of my life growing up and it was so valued by my entire family, I think it's such a fantastic way to get to know somebody and to be able to, I guess consume someone's story through their food, or to be able to tell a story through food is my preferred medium.
And food is just the start of so many conversations, and it's such a great way to get into those conversations and to talk about so many things. So when I thought that I wanted to be a writer and be a storyteller, I was like, what better way than to write about people and places and a community through their food?
Kerry Diamond:
So you wind up at this epic place, but not in the department you want to be in, but you're in L.A. and you're writing about fashion and celebrity. Tell us what that was like.
Jenn Harris:
Oh man, it was fun. I'm still into fashion. I like fashion, but it was this whole other glamorous world. But I remember I would build out the news stories for, so I would do the digital builds for stuff.
I remember working with Booth Moore, who was our fashion critic at the time, who is incredible. She's so incredible. And she would be at the shows in New York or Paris or Milan or whatever fashion week it was, and she'd be on her Blackberry, literally in the taxi on her way to the next show.
And she would text or email this incredible copy, and then it'd be up to me to be like, catch it, put it up, put the corresponding photos. And I just remember thinking, this is so fantastic. This life is just so glamorous. I mean, I've never seen anyone work that hard or that fast and with that clean of copy than Booth Moore, she's amazing.
But just that world was just awesome. And getting to go to Coachella with a photographer and talk to people about what they were wearing and their fashion. And we also did this campus fashion thing where I worked with a photographer and he'd go to USC or UCLA and we'd talk to students about their fashion. I mean, we had celebrity fashion, but it wasn't regular content.
So I remember I started this column called Frugal Fashion, where I would look at what celebrities were wearing and then tell you how to recreate it yourself for less, which I mean ridiculous. It was fun at the time.
But no, it was wild getting to work in that section. And there were such talented people, Adam Tschorn, who's actually Booth's husband, who's now on the cannabis beat at the L.A. Times, so everyone should read his stuff. But he was the menswear writer at the time. And Melissa Magsaysay was there too, doing beauty. And the team was so wonderful, it was really great to work with them, but I just thought, wow, how glamorous. What a fantastic section and what amazing people to work with.
Kerry Diamond:
But your mom was right?
Jenn Harris:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
You got your foot in the door and you were able to kick it open. You did not give up on your dream of writing for the food section.
Jenn Harris:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us how you got that job.
Jenn Harris:
Oh, wow. I bothered Russ Parsons, who used to be the food editor, but I just kind of bothered him and was like, "Hey, can I take you out to lunch?" Or, "I have some story ideas." And he was probably like, "Who are you?" It's like, "I sit over there around the corner in a different section."
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, there's nothing... I miss a newsroom.
Jenn Harris:
Right?
Kerry Diamond:
And you can bother people in person.
Jenn Harris:
Yes, you can.
Kerry Diamond:
It's so easy to make a difference when it's in person versus sending emails or DMs.
Jenn Harris:
Yeah, you just kind of get up and you just are in their face, not in a confrontational way. He agreed to, because I bothered him to eat at the cafeteria downstairs with me. And so I remember I bought him, I think, a Turkey sandwich or something, and we were talking and I said, "I have all these ideas I really want for food." He was like, "Okay, fine."
I was like, "Do you have anything that you've been waiting for someone to cover or anything, I'll do it. I'll do it on my own time, on a weekly whatever for free." And he's like, "All right, well..." He sent me to the Orange County Fair basically, and was like, "Write about the fair food." I was like, "Okay." So I did that. I spent the day at the fair eating deep-fried food. I filed something and he was like, okay.
And then I started to get little pieces here and there, and I was like, "All right, well, here's five other ideas I have." And I kept pitching, and it was like when blogging was really big, and we had a food blog called Daily Dish. And I was just like, "All right, I can write these 10 things for Daily Dish."
And he gave me a chance. And then when a full-time position in food opened up shortly after I took it. So that's how I got in the food section from bothering someone and buying them a turkey sandwich.
Kerry Diamond:
I love that.
Jenn Harris:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Did they give you a beat or was your beat the whole city?
Jenn Harris:
My beat was get traffic. My beat was-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, get traffic, you mean people can read the stories. Yes.
Jenn Harris:
Write whatever is going to get readers to click. So it was like while I was doing some restaurant news and some spotlights on different chefs and trend pieces, it was also all you got to do is chase traffic.
So it was like while I was doing the stuff that I wanted to do, actually covering the L.A. food scene, it was like, okay, but I need to get this traffic number. So you also need to write about this new study that came out that says that Oreos are more addictive than cocaine. I literally-
Kerry Diamond:
I knew it.
Jenn Harris:
It was kind of like this balancing act of what's going to get us these traffic goals, but also here are the stories that I actually want to write. And I did that for a couple of years working for strictly the blog, and it was a grind. It was a lot.
Kerry Diamond:
So you're there, even though you're having to write those stories, you're having fun.
Jenn Harris:
Oh yeah. I having the best time. And the staff at the time, so it was Russ Parsons. Betty Hallock was the deputy editor who's now back as the deputy editor, who's wonderful. And then Noelle Carter was running our test kitchen and we had an actual test kitchen where we still test all the recipes for the paper now.
But the test kitchen, and we have a gorgeous kitchen at our new office in El Segundo. But back then the kitchen was this small thing where we did all the shoots and everything there. There were four or five different finishes in the kitchen so that you could shoot... it would look like you were in four or five different kitchens.
But the whole point was to test things so that the readers could try something that we just knew was a solid recipe. If you found it in the L.A. Times, and still, if you find it in the L.A. Times, we tested it and it works. It would be this thing where I was like, all right. Noelle would say, okay, so this week we're testing grilled cheese, so we'd all eat grilled cheese on Thursday, and then once they test something, you all go in the kitchen and try it. We just felt like such a little family in the food section. Everyone was willing to work with you and mentor you, especially Betty. It just was a really great atmosphere to be in.
Kerry Diamond:
Was Jonathan still alive?
Jenn Harris:
Yes. So he was at the times until 2018. So I worked with him for four or five years.
Kerry Diamond:
What was that like?
Jenn Harris:
Oh, he was the most generous with his time. My favorite thing was when he would come by my desk and just stand there and ask me, "Have you been to this restaurant?" Or "What did you think of this?" Or... He just was so lovely to talk to and just such a wealth of knowledge about not just food, everything. That man's brain, I mean, he was all the encyclopedias in one. It was so wonderful to get to talk to him.
I remember, and he was just so kind, also. So I remember my favorite memory with him is when he came by my desk and said, "I want to eat with your grandma." And I said, "Okay."
Because Jonathan covered the San Gabriel Valley before anyone acknowledged what it was or anything there. And he knew that that's where I was from and that my grandma lives there and that my grandma loves to go out to try new restaurants.
And so I said, okay. So he set up a dinner with Jonathan and Lori, his wife, and me and my grandma and my uncle, and we're sitting there and he's telling my grandma, "Here you order." I was like, oh my God, this is so weird. As I'm just sitting there. I'm like, wow, we're out to dinner with Jonathan, my grandma. And I'm like, oh my god, grandma, what are you going to say?
And she's like, "No, no, you order." And I was like, "Grandma, he brought you so you could order." So she was trying to be polite and then let him order some things, and then she ordered some things. And then she's getting more comfortable with him as dinner goes on, and then she decides she's going to tell him some of her favorite things.
So randomly, we're talking about something out. He's like, "What do you think of this crab?" And she's like, "It's okay." My grandma loves to just say it's okay, even if she loves it, she just doesn't want to seem overly enthusiastic about things, which is hilarious.
So put Jonathan's talking about this crab. She's like, "You know what, Jonathan, I'm going to tell you something." And he's like, "Yes?" "You would never admit this, but McDonald's has the best coffee." And I'm like, sick because McDonald's is where she goes with her friends. They order one hash brown and then six of them sit there at the McDonald's and they all drink coffee. And anyway, it's a Grandma Tina thing.
But she's trying to, and she's telling him this and she's trying to convince him, and she's convinced that he knows this, but that he won't admit it because he's such a big deal and I'm just sitting there dying. And so I laugh-
Kerry Diamond:
He's holding out on all of Los Angeles.
Jenn Harris:
And he just was like, "Oh, okay." Very nice. So then we make it through dinner and the next day he comes to my desk and I'm like, oh God. I was like, oh God, he is going to mention the coffee. And you know what he said? He said, "Thank you so much. That was so wonderful." He said, "Can we please do that again soon?" I mean, I loved him so much. He was just the most amazing person.
Kerry Diamond:
I love that one thing your grandmother decides to go to the mat on is McDonald's coffee.
Jenn Harris:
Yes. The one thing.
Kerry Diamond:
Classic.
Jenn Harris:
Ah, she's so good. She's so great.
Kerry Diamond:
Aw. Must have been so hard to lose Jonathan.
Jenn Harris:
Yes, it was awful. It was awful. It still stings. It will sting forever. And not just for me, he meant so much to the entire city, to the entire country, just the food world. He changed so much in how he wrote and the voices and cuisines. He gave a platform to not only did he change food media, I think he changed the restaurant world forever for the better. And I'll forever be grateful for that.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you feel a sense of pressure being at the L.A. Times to have to live up to his legacy?
Jenn Harris:
I think that it always makes me want to be better. I think that it's this constant motivation to do better. I'm always just like, all right, he did so much for the city. I think we all have a responsibility, not just for him but just to the city, to just do better and to just share the great food that we have here and uplift different voices.
I thankfully don't review restaurant. There's so much good out there. I'm happy to shine a spotlight on it every day. And also our restaurant critic Bill does it than any... Bill Addison does it better than I think anyone. He's so great. But no, I don't... I guess I look at it as a motivation to do better and to do more and to find more great food.
Kerry Diamond:
What is your exact beat today?
Jenn Harris:
My beat is everything. No, I mean I really do have some freedom with the column, which is great. It started with my Instagram posts where I started just posting the best things I ate this week. And then it was like, hey, why don't we try that in a column format? So I make at least two. We used to make four or five recommendations a week, which was a lot. So I was make at least two recommendations a week.
Sometimes there's a theme, sometimes there isn't and I love that freedom or like this week I was like, why don't I ask ChatGPT what to eat in Los Angeles? Or if it's Lunar New Year, I'm going to write about the foods that I eat with my grandma for Lunar New Year. So my beat is kind of anything and everything. Food, restaurant, beverage related.
Kerry Diamond:
Disney.
Jenn Harris:
Disney.
Kerry Diamond:
Why is everyone obsessed with Disney food right now?
Jenn Harris:
I don't know if it's just right now. I feel like a lot of people including us, came out with packages kind of around the same time. But I know Disney is constantly trying to up their game with their food and they just... I don't know if it just ended. I think it just ended. They had their food and wine festival where they have special vendors making different things at the park.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, wow. I didn't even know they... See, so much you could teach us. I didn't know about the pizza convention and you told me about that. I didn't know Disney has a wine and food festival.
Jenn Harris:
Yeah, Disney has a wine and food festival.
Kerry Diamond:
Is it grownup focused? Is it kid friendly?
Jenn Harris:
I think it's kid friendly. I mean, it's designed for adults too just because they do have the wine aspect of it. But no, I think the food is fun for everyone. I think it's a reason for adults to be excited to go to Disneyland with their kids, so it's not just for their kids. They don't have to look at it as, I'm just wasting this day at Disneyland. They can get something out of it too.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about the pizza convention before we talk about ChatGPT, because I was like, there's a pizza convention?
Jenn Harris:
Yes. Every year in Vegas there's a pizza expo. They take over... This year was pretty big. They're just coming back out of COVID, so there's more and more vendors coming now, but they take over a part of the convention center in Vegas and it's just rows and rows of booths of people showcasing... And it's food and other things. So it's different types of ovens for home kitchens or not, and it's like packaging and uniform for your staff and POS [point of sale] systems, but then it's all kinds of people doing different flowers, different toppings. California dairy has three different areas.
It's just, it's insanity and it's all pizza for three days and it's crazy. And you eat a lot of pizza, you learn about a lot of pizza. They have different competitions too, so there's like a pizza dough competition. And then I think they did a new sandwich one this year and then an overall pizza competition. So pizzaiolos from all over the world come and compete and showcase their stuff and it's-
Kerry Diamond:
It sounds like fun.
Jenn Harris:
Oh my God, I love it. I've been going for the past, I don't know, as many years as they've had it. I love it so much.
Kerry Diamond:
Can civilians go?
Jenn Harris:
I think you can pay, it's mostly for buyers and people who own businesses that have to do with pizza-
Kerry Diamond:
Pizza pros.
Jenn Harris:
... And media to go and just kind of see what's happening. But you could buy a pass... I think anyone can technically buy a pass.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, you told me, and I was shocked, that you ate some of the best pizza you've had in your whole life from this one pizza guy.
Jenn Harris:
Yes. So Francesco Martucci, who has a pizza restaurant in Caserta, Italy, one of the big oven companies flew him out to be at the expo and to just make pizza showcasing the oven, but lucky for us because he's amazing. And so he made his signature pizza.
So he combines multiple types of flour to get the texture and the flavor he wants, but then he steams the dough first, then he deep-fries it, then he bakes it in the oven. So there's like a three-step process. Each process doing something different to the texture and the flavor of the dough.
And so what ends up happening is you get this dough that is... so it looks, it's like puffy. It's on the thicker side and puffy, and as soon as you bite into it, it's crisp. You get that crispness, but then the dough just disappears into air. It's like when you eat cotton candy and what happens to cotton candy in your mouth? It's just kind of disintegrates. But then you get to the bottom, there's a tiny bit of chew from what you'd normally expect from pizza.
It was the best, not just pizza, like bread carbohydrate thing that I've ever had in my life. And I just, I've been thinking about it since. I was looking up, I was like, how do I get to Caserta, Italy to eat this again?
The toppings too. It was like cherry tomatoes that he'd cook down, which were so sweet and delicious. And then capers, oregano, anchovies and slivers of garlic. I had all these people comment, I ended up doing an Instagram reel, and I got all these comments being like, "Tell me you don't know anything about pizza without telling me you don't know anything about pizza because there was no cheese on it."
Kerry Diamond:
Rude.
Jenn Harris:
It's okay, but it got people talking about it and just what people think. People basically think American pizza is pizza, but this, it was beyond amazing. And the toppings too was salty and it really just popped and I've been obsessed with it ever since.
Kerry Diamond:
You've got to get him kept to L.A., do a popup or something.
Jenn Harris:
So I think he's going to. So Daniele Uditi, who has the Pizzana restaurants, he's the one who grabbed me at the show and was like, "You have to eat his pizza-"
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, right and Candace Nelson is a partner in those.
Jenn Harris:
Yes, yes. And so he was like, "You have to eat this." So I'll be forever grateful to Daniele. But he said he's going to try and bring him here for a one or two night collaboration dinner.
Kerry Diamond:
Fun.
Jenn Harris:
So I will be first in line.
Kerry Diamond:
How do you stay on top of everything? It's so hard. How do you just figure out the balance between what you stay on top of, what you cover, what you don't cover?
Jenn Harris:
I mean, I feel that too. I feel like that constant pressure that I put on myself, that I know you put on yourself, that everyone puts on theirselves, but I have a running list on my phone that really makes me sweaty. Where I'm just looking, I'm like, oh my God, you missed this, or this has been open for four or five months now and I'm not even scratching the surface of what there is to eat here.
I'm really trying and I'm out constantly every single night, multiple dinners, but it's just... There's so much. But that's a great thing. I love that there's so much. I just wish I was a little bit more...
Kerry Diamond:
I know.
Jenn Harris:
I wish there was another day of the week that I could get out more but-
Kerry Diamond:
Or a second stomach.
Jenn Harris:
Yeah, exactly. Or a second stomach. But I think that it's important to just make sure I'm covering different neighborhoods, different types of cuisine. I'll look, I'll be like, okay, Jenn, if you did a restaurant in Santa Monica this week, we're not covering Santa Monica for a while. Just to give different neighborhoods and pockets and different types of cuisine a chance. I feel like I have to be really mindful of that every single week.
Kerry Diamond:
How could people get on your radar?
Jenn Harris:
I mean, I get press releases for things, but that's not normally how I find things. I feel like sometimes I'm just like, I'll spend the day in a neighborhood and see something or I'll just talk to a shop owner and ask them where they eat or I'll ask my friends. Or if there's certain people that I know to look to on Instagram who have great accounts, who are always out.
My colleague Stephanie Breijo is fantastic and she writes our news column, so I often look to her to see what's new or what's coming or what just opened. She's such a great resource and everyone should check out her column.
Literally all over the place. My grandma and her friends. So my grandma's friends eat out constantly and they're always collecting takeout menus. My grandma gets really disappointed if a restaurant doesn't have a takeout menu. She kind of writes them off like, "Well, how am I supposed to know? How am I supposed to share who you are and what to order with my friends." They get takeout menus, they circle things and give them to me. So they're my resource for the San Grupo Valley. They're really great.
I'm open to tips of all kinds and some people will just Instagram DM me or email me and be like, "Hey, this new place opened up in my neighborhood." Or, "You wrote about this and actually I think this one's better." I'm like, "Okay, well, I'll go try it." Anyone who wants to give me a tip, please. I'll take tips from everywhere.
Kerry Diamond:
You also have taken tips from ChatGPT, as we said earlier. That was one of your recent columns. Tell us what you asked ChatGPT and what ChatGPT told you.
Jenn Harris:
Ah, so I asked ChatGPT, I said, I wanted to keep it raw. I wanted to give it a chance to really show me what it could do.
Kerry Diamond:
To dazzle you.
Jenn Harris:
Yes, to dazzle me. It's writing music, it's doing all... I'm hearing people say it's doing all... Writing term papers. I'm like, okay, ChatGPT, let's see what you got. So I just typed in, just to get things going. I said, I'm hungry, period. Where should I eat in Los Angeles?
And it spit out it's six answers. It spit out, it said In-N-Out Burger, Grif Cafe, Roscoe's House of Chicken 'N Waffles, Apple Pan, Grand Central Market, and Canter's Deli. And those are all really well known Los Angeles places. So it's probably my fault for not being more specific or asking specific cuisines, but it was interesting to me that if I just left it open like what do I eat in L.A.? It was just like, well, it acted like Yelp.
Hopefully, I don't think it'll put me out of a job anytime soon, but we'll see. There's a new version coming out, so I don't know. And it was just funny that that's what it spit out, but it was fun for me to have been familiar with all of these places.
And then I asked for each one, "What do I order at X place?" And then I just took the first food item it gave me. Again, none of these dishes were foreign to me, but it was so interesting to taste what Los Angeles has to offer through the eyes or screen of whatever you want to call it, of ChatGPT.
Kerry Diamond:
So you'll change the prompt next time.
Jenn Harris:
I will get very... You have to be very specific with it and then it gets better.
Kerry Diamond:
Jenn, if people want to follow you, read your writing, how could they? Tell them all the truth. We didn't even talk about your videos yet, we ran out of time for that. You've got some great videos on YouTube. Best fried chicken in Los Angeles.
Jenn Harris:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Best dumplings in Los Angeles. But tell us how people can interact with everything you put out there.
Jenn Harris:
Yeah, so you can find everything on latimes.com/food. If you just click on my name, on my author photo, you can get every story I've ever written in the L.A. Times and all the videos.
And then yeah, on YouTube, youtube.com/laTimesFood where you can see all the different series that I work on. The Bucket List, what we're into, some fun stuff. But most of the stuff, if you want to follow what I'm eating in real time is Instagram @Jenn_Harris_.
Kerry Diamond:
Any newsletters people can subscribe to.
Jenn Harris:
We have two newsletters for food. I've guess written them a couple of times, but Tasting Notes, which Bill Addison does, is fantastic, who's our restaurant critic. And then Mims does a cooking newsletter as well. So you can subscribe to those two.
Kerry Diamond:
Speed round. Coffee or tea in the morning?
Jenn Harris:
Tea.
Kerry Diamond:
Tea?
Jenn Harris:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
What kind?
Jenn Harris:
I drink a Sencha, like green tea.
Kerry Diamond:
You shook your head like, no coffee.
Jenn Harris:
Oh, I don't drink coffee. Never.
Kerry Diamond:
You don't drink any coffee? Okay.
Jenn Harris:
I've never been a coffee drinker, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay.
Jenn Harris:
Only tea.
Kerry Diamond:
Interesting. Treasured cookbook or food memoir? Just book you love.
Jenn Harris:
Ooh, Save Me The Plums. Ruth Reichl.
Kerry Diamond:
Great one. Song that makes you smile.
Jenn Harris:
Anything by Maggie Rogers makes me smile.
Kerry Diamond:
Since we're in Los Angeles, what are you streaming these days?
Jenn Harris:
I mean, other than Ted Lasso? I'm like everyone else and I love that show. I also just started watching Slow Horses. It's on Apple TV+, it's like a quirky British like spy show with Gary Oldman, who is fantastic.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite kitchen implement.
Jenn Harris:
Can my tea kettle be a thing? Okay. Tea kettle, electric tea kettle.
Kerry Diamond:
That might be a Radio Cherry Bombe first, but I love that. Okay. Do you have a brand you like?
Jenn Harris:
I just bought the one off Amazon. I'm so sorry. It's the Amazon Basics one, but it's the one thing in my kitchen that I use every day, multiple times a day. I drink a lot of tea.
Kerry Diamond:
Is there a motto or mantra that gets you through the day?
Jenn Harris:
Maybe something my mom told me, which was when I was having a hard time and she was like, "Nothing lasts forever." And I know that could be seen in a negative light, but it was a positive thing where I was like, you can get through anything. You can get through this. It's not going to last forever. You can get through it. So maybe that.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. Last question. If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Jenn Harris:
Well, I think that Jazz Singsanong from Jitlada in L.A. is a celebrity. She's on the Food Network all the time. I would want to be trapped with her. She's extremely resourceful and fun and lovely to be around and just like scrappy and a great cook. So I feel like she would be the best company.
Kerry Diamond:
So Jazz it is.
Jenn Harris:
Yes, Jazz.
Kerry Diamond:
Aw. Well, Jenn, thank you so much. It's been so great being in L.A., checking out all the restaurants, following your recommendations and just getting to know you better.
Jenn Harris:
Thank you. This was so fun.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you so much to Jenn for joining us. If you missed the first episode of our Hey Hey, L.A. miniseries presented by Square be sure to go back and check out my interview with Bricia Lopez of Guelaguetza Restaurant and the brand new Asada cookbook. Bricia is a force of nature. And next Wednesday, our final miniseries episode with Chef Nyesha Arrington, who I would like to one day be my life coach. Don't miss it. Be sure to sign up for the Cherry Bombe newsletter over at CherryBombe.com so you can stay on top of all Cherry Bombe happenings, pods and events. Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Thank you to Joseph Hazan, studio engineer For Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center. Our producer is Catherine Baker. Happy belated birthday Catherine. And our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu. And thanks to you for listening. You are the Bombe.