Jinny Cho Transcript
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Hi, everyone. You're listening to the Future Of Food Is You, a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Abena Anim-Somuah, and each week I talk to emerging talents in the food world and they share what they're up to, as well as their dreams and predictions for what's ahead. As for me, I'm the founder of The Eden Place, a community that's all about gathering people intentionally around food. I love this new generation of chefs, bakers, and creatives making their way in the world of food, drink, media, and tech.
Today's guest is Jinny Cho, the founder of Detour Doughnuts in Frisco, Texas. Jinny grew up working in her parents' doughnut shop and has been on a journey to expand beyond the traditional glazed doughnuts that were a childhood staple. At Detour, Jinny is reinventing what it means to be an American doughnut shop and offering creative and culturally relevant flavors for everyone who walks into her shop. We chat about her detour into the world of doughnuts from medicine, how her space serves the community, and her dreams now that she's a newly minted permanent resident.
Thank you to Kerrygold for supporting The Future Of Food Is You. Kerrygold is the iconic Irish brand, famous for its rich butter and cheese made in Ireland with milk from grass-fed cows. I was recently in Ireland with Kerrygold and got to meet some of the people behind their signature butter and cheese. I spent an afternoon with Kerrygold's cheese tasters to learn how classic cheddars like Dublin or and Skellig are aged. I visited the Ballymaloe Cookery School and watched Rachel Allen make some champ, which is basically an Irish take on mashed potatoes filled with scallions and Kerrygold salted butter, in the gold foil of course. We also spent an afternoon with the Grubb-Ferno family, the cheese-makers behind the Kerrygold Cashel Blue Farmhouse Cheese, perfect for any cheeseboard or salad topping. It was wonderful just to see how Kerrygold is such a big part of Irish culinary culture. We even got to meet the famous cows. The Cleary family in County Waterford introduced us to their herd, and I learned so much about what goes into producing the best milk for Kerrygold's butter and cheese. Be on the lookout for some cow selfies on my Instagram. Each time I reach for my favorite unsalted butter or yummy cheddar, I'll be thinking of those cows and their dreamy pasture. Look for Kerrygold butter and cheese at your favorite supermarket, specialty grocery store, or cheese shop, and visit kerrygoldusa.com for recipes and product information.
Some Cherry Bombe housekeeping. This is for all you cookbook lovers. On Saturday, November 11th, Cherry Bombe is hosting its third annual cookbook festival, Cooks & Books at Ace Hotel Brooklyn. The day will be filled with panel discussions and live demos from your favorite cookbook authors, including Sohla El-Waylly, and Abi Balingit. Tickets are on sale at cherrybombe.com. Get your tickets now before they sell out. Also, if you want to make a weekend of it and stay at the Ace Hotel Brooklyn, use code cherryb for 15% off when booking on acehotel.com. Let's check in with today's guest.
Jinny, thank you so much for joining us on The Future Of Food Is You podcast.
Jinny Cho:
Thank you so much for having me.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Can you tell us where you grew up and how did food show up in your life?
Jinny Cho:
Oh gosh, yeah. Food is everything, was everything, is everything, will be everything in my life. I was born in Busan, South Korea, so that's like the most southern tip of South Korea. And was there until I was seven and then moved to Texas. My dad's side was already here and they had planted roots, so my dad also followed suit and then we just stayed, and I've still been in Texas ever since.
Food has been something that always reminds us of home. That was the most important tether back to home. It's just like a constant reminder of Korea, and in a good way. Every meal was a feast.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What were some of the dishes that showed up at the dinner table?
Jinny Cho:
One of my favorite soups is called yukgaejang, and it's like a spicy beef broth soup that I love because it nourishes your soul and it takes a long time to cook. It requires everyone to help with a certain ingredient. Maybe it's like the sprouts, so I'd have to be sitting there and taking out all the bad sprouts, and my grandma would be working on the meat or ... It was just a family thing to do together.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And your parents did have a doughnut shop too, growing up in Texas?
Jinny Cho:
Yes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What was it like growing up in a doughnut shop?
Jinny Cho:
Very early, because every morning was early. They were open 365 days a year, so yeah, no days off, and working early hours all the time. I mean, I feel like the entire household was up and buzzing from 3:00 AM. Of course, I love them and I wanted to spend more time with them. As soon as I could, I started going to the shop with them and just helping with what I can. I thought I was doing my part, and then he would drop me off at the library at some point.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Is "he" being your dad?
Jinny Cho:
Yeah, yeah. My dad would drop me off at the library and that would just be my day ... Or school.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What were some of the tasks that you did while you were in the doughnut shop?
Jinny Cho:
I started off with bagging doughnut holes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay, nice.
Jinny Cho:
Probably. Yeah, because doughnut holes are so grab-and-go, but you have to count all of them, so it's like, "Okay, make 20 bags of doughnut holes," so I'll just sit there doing that. And then my parents also started making these mini cinnamon rolls and mini apple fritters that actually got pretty popular wherever they opened their store, so lots of bagging. And then moved on to taking customers.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Jinny Cho:
Yeah. And back then we still had the cash registers where you had to punch everything in, playing with a calculator all day.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's kind of cool.
Jinny Cho:
The new POSs, I mean, I suppose they're more efficient, but it's certainly not as fun. And then moved into making doughnuts too.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What was the setup like then in your parents' shop?
Jinny Cho:
Dough table, proofer, fryer, glazer, and a decorating table. And that's sort of the line.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You have a biomedical engineering degree from University of Texas at Dallas. Are there any elements of your degree that transfer into your work into cooking or spark some interest when you think about cooking?
Jinny Cho:
Yes. At school I spent quite a bit of time doing research, just hours after hours in the lab, trying different combinations of things that would give me the kind of result that I was looking for, or, I mean, that was at least my strategy for research. And I find that research process to be very similar to how I make the flavors for my doughnuts, because it's a lot of in your head and like, "Oh, let me try this this way and that way." And at least for where I'm at right now, it's a pretty solitary journey when I'm in the kitchen, trying to come up with new flavors for Detour.
So yeah, that experimenting and research kind of way. But there's an end to this and I can sell it, and that's amazing, because when you do research in engineering or in medicine, you just never really know if you're ever going to see that out in the world.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
For sure. But you get to see your stuff every day.
Jinny Cho:
Yeah, yeah. I have a brick and mortar. I can just put it out there and see what it does and have conversations about it, and ...
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And how did you decide on the name Detour Doughnuts?
Jinny Cho:
Oh, I wanted knead doughnuts. Like when you knead dough. There's actually another doughnut shop called Knead Donuts, so I was like, "Okay, so I guess I can't do that." So I was driving around and I saw this detour sign, and I thought the D and D for detour and doughnuts, the alliteration would be great.
And also, it was such a detour in my life. I thought I was going to stay on the path of, this is pretty typical, but stay on the path of academics and medicine, but for a very specific reason I couldn't go down that path. And so I had this opportunity to open Detour and knew I had to take it because how often do those opportunities come.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What was the particular opportunity that made it worth it to decide on opening the shop?
Jinny Cho:
It has a lot to do with my permanent residence story. So after I immigrated here, I was on my parents' visa and then I was on my own visa, and I was waiting for my green card to come through. I wanted to stay in school because I didn't know how long my green card would take. I did want to get back into doing medical school, but there was just this blob of time and I didn't know what to do with it, but I didn't really want to spend it doing nothing or working for someone else. I love Dallas, it's home for me, and I've seen Dallas grow exponentially, and it still is. It was clear to me that Dallas was ready for a different kind of shop than the ones that my parents had for 10-plus years at that point.
So I'm like, "Okay, my parents are going to back me up on this and it's the right time. Doughnuts are blowing up everywhere and let's just do this right now." And I had been experimenting at my parents' shop too, but the clientele's different. They're not looking at flavors to see, "Oh, that's a crème brûlée doughnut. Oh, that one's made with mascarpone. What's the difference between this cream and that cream?" That conversation's just not going to happen when people are just ready to just leave. They don't even look at the display case, they already come in knowing what they want. So having the clientele be different, and I just knew it had to be a different store.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Something that I've loved about your work is just how creative you are.
Jinny Cho:
Thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You are able to just mix flavors up in such beautiful ways. You have a rotating menu of stuff in your bakery, from things like mango sticky rice flavors to pumpkin mascarpone, and even orange cardamom hazelnut. Or on the slightly savory side too, you have olive oil and fennel, blueberry goat cheese. When you think about the types of flavors you want on your doughnuts, what does the ideation process look like from, "Okay, this thing can exist in the world," to, "Now we have a tangible creation that's in the store."
Jinny Cho:
The focus for a long time, and it still is, has been about the flavor. I think with doughnuts, the bad rep that it gets is that it's too sweet.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Of course.
Jinny Cho:
It's just so much sugar. I have a sweet tooth, but I don't like things that are overly sweet. So I look for flavor combinations that can actually stand out, even with the very specific limitations of it can have a filling, it can have toppings. And with the icing, in order to make the icing thick enough, it requires a lot of powdered sugar. And if the flavor can't come through with all the powders and sugar that you come in, then maybe that flavor's not a great one for doughnuts.
And that's why I work with a lot of creams, freshly whipped cream to be specific. It's the love of my life.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It seems like your doughnuts are not just pushing flavor boundaries, they're also pushing conversational boundaries. What I love too is you don't just focus on traditional holidays. I feel like there's all the holidays that get pushed to us, we get all the ads, Thanksgiving, Christmas. But you also make doughnuts for things like Holi, which is the Indian festival, Lunar New Year, Eid, or even specific heritage months like Black History Month, Pride Month or Asian American and Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander month.
How do you think incorporating these themes into the restaurant's calendar is embodying a real American doughnut shop, or what a real American doughnut shop should look like?
Jinny Cho:
Growing up as an immigrant and as an Asian in America, you are taught to assimilate. I am trying to undo all that I've been taught through the work that I do at Detour. So giving the community more of an accurate representation of what America is really made of, what the people around us are really made of. It's beyond Christmas, it's beyond Easter, it's more than Valentine's. Some of them they're not going to know, but to spark that sense of curiosity.
I live in a state where I'm sure you've read a lot of news about, it is a very conservative state, but it's home. And I want to say that I hope that they will still be able to open their hearts. And I think everyone seeing that this one doughnut shop can handle all these conversations and all these different holidays coming in and out of the display case, it's all okay.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. And what better entry point to know about the world than through food? I think it's universal love language and-
Jinny Cho:
100%. Doughnuts are so easy, they're so accessible, and that's why I hope that one day that I can get into other baked goods. And I don't think that's far from my future, but what I love about donuts is how approachable they are.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back.
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everybody. I'm Kerry Diamond, the founder of Cherry Bombe, and the editor-in-chief of Cherry Bombe Magazine. Cherry Bombe's Cooks & Books Festival is taking place Saturday, November 11th at Ace Hotel Brooklyn. It's New York City's only cookbook festival. We have so many amazing authors joining us. I want to tell you about one panel in particular. At 3:00 PM on the 11th we have a terrific panel called Mom's the Bombe, featuring Sohla El-Waylly, Fany Gerson, Camille Becerra, and Samantha Seneviratne. Camilla Marcus of west-bourne will be moderating this lively conversation about motherhood, kids in the kitchen, family meal, and more. Head to cherrybombe.com to snag a ticket and check out the full lineup while you're there. All tickets are $20.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Let's talk a little bit more about the brick and mortar space. So Detour Doughnuts exists in Frisco, people can come there, get a donut. What I really adore about your space is you have these Story Time hours on Fridays, and you always post about them and there's such great books. I mean, I love children's books. How do you think about the bakery serving as a community space based on the events that you're doing?
Jinny Cho:
Our space is not big, so I have to pick and choose what kind of events we do. But if you know a little bit about Frisco, you know that it's a bedroom community for Dallas, even though lately Frisco has a lot of its own things going on. There are a lot of families there. And I think we live in a world where there's just a lot of screens and lots of iPads and kids zoning out, watching TV. And I also have a 6-year-old.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Aw, so cute.
Jinny Cho:
Yeah. Yes, yes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Does he help in the doughnut shop sometimes?
Jinny Cho:
He tries to. He wants to, but then when he's there, he's like, "You know what? I don't really want to do this, but can I have all the chocolate?"
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I mean, he has a pretty good deal for most kids. He's very lucky.
Jinny Cho:
He does tell everyone that, "Mom has a doughnut shop, and have you been there? Do you know me?" It's hilarious.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
He's your marketing guy.
Jinny Cho:
He really is.
Part of the work that I want to do is give families a space to come and connect with their kids. And I know it's not for long. Our Story Times last, what, like 30 minutes max, but that's still really valuable quality time, and to get kids excited about books, get out of the house and see other kids. And honestly, it's really hot in Texas. Summertime, it's been difficult to go outside. So just a space where the parents can have the kind of doughnut that they want and the kind of coffee that they want, and the kids can be exposed to more literature and each other.
And Marci, she is a retired librarian, and she has been putting a lot of energy into our Story Times and picking out the books and making the craftsand everything, and I'm so thankful for her.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Are there any other events that you would hope to have to bring other demographics of the community into the fold at Detour?
Jinny Cho:
Yes, totally. There was a time where I was in denial about how small my space was, and then I had to bring some of the ingredients out from the back for them to be in the front because we needed more space in the back. And that really helped me see, "Okay, I need to use this space more wisely." So what we're actually planning on doing, hopefully soon, is doing these doughnut omakases.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, so cool.
Jinny Cho:
Yeah. So they're going to be donut flights basically, but then I'm hoping I can make the doughnut in front of them and hand it to them omakase style and have conversation. And again, getting us off our phones, but actually connecting with each other.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
For those of you listening, omakase is the traditional Japanese style of ordering food where you leave every selection up to the chef.
Jinny Cho:
Yes, yeah. So creating conversation, which just goes back to why I make the kind of doughnuts that I make anyway, to create conversation.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I know it's incredibly challenging to run a physical space, especially for food businesses, the profit margins, paying rent, lights, all these different things. What have been some challenges and learnings that you've had in the experience of having Detour in a physical space?
Jinny Cho:
Oh, for me, and I think I'm just now getting out of this because doughnuts are so personal to me, it's largely been a family business. Running a family-style business and an employee-run business are two very different schools of thoughts.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Totally.
Jinny Cho:
And when I first started Detour, it was half family, half employee, but now I've transitioned into all employees. I don't work with any other family members. That switch has been very tough, honestly, very toxic. I'm working with family members and I needed the dynamics to be different. But then even when I hired some, I would start recreating some of those dynamics and I had to become very self-aware of who I am at the store to make sure everyone has a great workplace, including myself. Yeah, that was one of my biggest challenges.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How do you find support within the Frisco and Dallas baking/food owner community? Do you feel like there's been a good support or people that you've been able to turn to as you've been figuring out if something breaks, if something doesn't work out, if you're going through a dynamic that you need to fix in order to keep the shop alive?
Jinny Cho:
Koreans in DFW have made their own economy around doughnuts. So there's someone that fixes doughnut equipment, and we have vendors that speak only Korean for the doughnut shops with owners that only speak Korean, and milk vendors too. It's all very accessible in that way. So I tap into that support when I need it.
And then when it comes to employees and such, I definitely have business owner mentors, I would say. Yeah, Chef Reye from Sandwich Hag has been very helpful. And then my boyfriend, Sean, he's been incredible. It's all about the support, honestly. Yeah. I didn't realize how unsupported I was. You have to work to change that. Okay, let's bring people into my life that's actually going to support my dream and be happy that I am carrying it forward. Yeah, so lately things have been amazing.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I also think it's really admirable when bakers or store owners use their skills and their talents to speak up and and serve as advocates for particular issues or causes. I know you've done a few campaigns over at your bakery, particularly as it pertains not just to different heritage months, but also to unfortunate events that do happen. So you had a Stop Asian Hate doughnut sale period, where you were able to raise $3,000 and match those sales to a total of $6,000 to the AAPI community GoFundMe.
Can you tell us a little bit about the process of what it was like creating those doughnuts, and how did your community feel when this was the way that you were hoping to shed a light on what was happening?
Jinny Cho:
Yeah. I was in a lot of pain, for sure. Yeah. That event opened my eyes to what I already knew, but I realized that I was the one that had to speak up. I am a leader in the community and I have the capacity right now, so let's go ahead and make this thing as loud as possible.
Yeah. After the Atlanta shooting happened ... I mean, these decisions are overnight because you got to act fast if you want to shed light on an event. So literally the next day I was like, "Okay, we're going to make these donuts that say #StopAsianHate." When it comes to organizing, I guess we don't expect or want these things to happen. I was like, "It's got to be super clear." So we have to write the whole thing, #StopAsianHate. And we posted it online, and what I told my community was, "Whatever you guys buy I will match, because you buying this donut and saying that you'll keep this in your heart, I am also going to match that because I want all of us to hold each other accountable. And that's how I'm going to show it with my actions."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Jinny Cho:
Yeah. So they bought $3,000 worth, and then I matched that, and $6,000 to Stop Asian Hate GoFundMe. And it was amazing. The news came out and I feel like the entire community came out and everyone was wrapped around our building to get these doughnuts. And it felt like they care.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How do you think that showing your activism in such a fervent way will inspire other emerging bakers, or even just food enthusiasts, to be able to show their support through food when things like this unfortunately do happen?
Jinny Cho:
I think in the food industry, or really any industry for that matter, the concept of professionalism gets in the way of one having opinions. People think it is professional to just go about your day like nothing happened, but this is a very personal business that came from very personal roots. I am going to have to speak out about these things. Everything that you see, everything that you like here, comes from who I am.
I'd love to continue inspiring talented chefs to keep working on their craft, but also to realize that they have a voice and they can use it, and it doesn't mean that you're being unprofessional.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, that's very empowering. Well, as you know, we're huge manifestors on the podcast. Where do you hope to see Detour in the next five to 10 years, and where do you hope to see yourself in the picture as well?
Jinny Cho:
I've spent the past five years testing out a lot of different things, and five years seems like a long time, but also it takes time to test out all of those things. We just renewed our lease in Frisco.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Congratulations.
Jinny Cho:
Thank you. It's a huge, huge deal. I really did not know that I would be doing this for 10 years, even after ... So let's see, in 2022 I did get my green card.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Nice.
Jinny Cho:
So at that point I was like, "Okay, you said you were going to go back to school, so are you really going to do that?" But I feel like Detour has a life of its own and it deserved more of my work and my time. Hopefully in the next five to 10 years I'm hoping that we can take our core message further and create more conversation with doughnuts and educate more people about where some of these desserts or flavors came from, and just spread joy.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so lovely. And I know you've mentioned a few times, but I wanted to make space for it, congratulations on your permanent residency, which you got-
Jinny Cho:
Thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
... last year after 21 years of being in America.
Jinny Cho:
Girl, yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I know the immigration process is not easy, especially as an immigrant myself to America. Now that you finally ... I know you mentioned that Frisco has always been home for you, especially coming to America at seven, how do you feel having that now and how do you hope it'll impact or inspire your work?
Jinny Cho:
When you're not really sure if you're going to be able to stay for a long time I approach life like, "Oh, it doesn't matter what I do right now because I'm not really even sure if I'll be staying here or not." So lots of impulsive decisions and doing whatever I want, and-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And it's a survival tactic in a way though, right?
Jinny Cho:
Oh, yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Because you'll never know when you'll get that chance again.
Jinny Cho:
Yeah. It's the fear that made me use that survival tactic. I've been working on manifesting more, thriving more, trying to get out of the survival mode. And I think you can see it a little bit at my doughnut shop too, because when I would respond to Stop Asian Hate or other things that happen in America, I'd be so angry. I don't want to make angry doughnuts. It's like, "Okay, how can we make things that are rooted in joy, that are rooted in acceptance, that are rooted in thriving and supporting each other," which is where bringing in all the different celebrations comes from.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Jinny, we're going to do the Future Flash Five.
Jinny Cho:
Gotcha.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Are you ready?
Jinny Cho:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Let's do it. The future for bakers.
Jinny Cho:
Ooh, still sweet.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future for business owners.
Jinny Cho:
Hard.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of doughnuts.
Jinny Cho:
Minis.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future for community spaces.
Jinny Cho:
Connection.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And the future of activism.
Jinny Cho:
Important.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Jinny, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. If we want to continue to support you, where are the best places to find you?
Jinny Cho:
You can follow us on Instagram, @detourdoughnuts. That's D-O-U-G-H-N-U-T-S. I always have to explain that. And also our website to see what we are carrying in store for that month.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Amazing. Thanks so much.
Jinny Cho:
Thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Before we go, our guest is going to leave a voicemail at The Future Of Food Mailbox, just talking to themselves 10 years from now. You have reached The Future Of Food Is You Mailbox. Please leave your message after the beep.
Jinny Cho:
Hey, you. I guess you're booked and busy or taking a well-deserved nap, so I'll just leave you with this. How's life? Is it actually all working out? We've been surrounding ourselves with good people, choosing happiness and facing our fears. I'm curious about the accumulation of intentional decisions rather than a pile of impulsive ones.
How's your body? Are you comfortable in it? Have we found how to manage the chronic pain? I hope you've been keeping up with yoga and hopefully in some sort of dance or pole studio to move your body. How is your mind? Has it imploded from overthinking yet? Remember, think less and just go headfirst into the things that scare you, that's where the magic is. How's your soul? I hope you're traveling more. How many countries have you visited? Feed yourself with something that reminds you of grandma today. I have zero doubt motherhood is a blast. Say hi to future Lawrence for me and that I can't wait to meet him. When things are hard, just remember that kid's magical smile.
Of course you're still with the love of your life. Have you collaborated creatively yet? What a gift to have found love so precious. Jinny, I am so proud of you. I love you so much. You're my hero.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's it for today's show. Do you know someone who you think is the future of food? Tell us about them. Nominate them at the link in our show notes, or leave us a rating and a review and tell me about them in the review. I can't wait to read more about them. Thanks to Kerrygold for sponsoring our show. The Future of Food Is You is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Thanks to the team at CityVox Studios, executive producers Kerry Diamond and Catherine Baker, and associate producer Jenna Sadhu. Catch you on the future flip.