Abi Balingit Transcript
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi peeps, you're listening to She's My Cherry Pie, the baking podcast from The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Jessie Sheehan. I'm a baker, recipe developer, and author of four baking books, including “Salty, Cheesy, Herby, Crispy Snackable Bakes.” On each episode, I hang out with the sweetest bakers around and take a deep dive into their signature bakes. Our show is on hiatus right now, but don't worry, we're busy whipping up a delicious new season for you, dropping in early May. In the meantime, we're re-airing some of our favorite episodes from the archives.
Today we're re-airing my chat with Abi Balingit. Abi is a self-taught baker, the creative force behind The Dusky Kitchen blog, and the author of “Mayumu: Filipino American Desserts Remixed.” Since we last spoke, Abi's book won the James Beard Award for Emerging Voice, and she was featured on the cover of Cherry Bombe's Creative Class issue. Abi joins me to talk all about bibingka, the Filipino rice cake made with coconut milk and baked in banana leaves. We go step-by-step through her recipe for her horchata bibingka, which you can find in her book. She shares the tips, tricks, and ingredients you need to make this delicious treat. I loved chatting with Abi, so stay tuned for our convo. If you want to get the Abi issue of Cherry Bombe, head to cherrybombe.com.
A huge thank you to everyone who joined us at Jubilee last weekend. It was an unforgettable day filled with laughter, insightful conversations, and so much incredible food and drink. I loved meeting so many of you, especially those who stopped by the Baker's Meetup at Ghirardelli and everyone who said hi at the Kerrygold Butter Club. I hope everyone enjoyed the day as much as I did. Want to be the first to know about future Cherry Bombe events? Subscribe to Cherry Bombe's newsletter at cherrybombe.com or click the link in our show notes.
Peeps, did you know that we have a free She's My Cherry Pie newsletter that coincides with each new episode? It comes out every Saturday morning and shares insights about the guest, their recipe, and other fun tidbits and baking news like our cake of the week. To sign up, head to cherrybombe.substack.com or click the link in our show notes.
Now let's check in with today's guest. Abi, so excited to have you on She's My Cherry Pie.
Abi Balingit:
Oh, thank you, Jessie. I'm so excited to be here.
Jessie Sheehan:
So I have read that you started baking at 13 due to your deep love of the Food Network and that the internet was essentially like your recipe box as it were. I also read that you had a special affection, which I totally get for Allrecipes back in the day for that website.
Abi Balingit:
Oh, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
First of all, if you don't know what Allrecipes is, Abi's going to tell you, but also tell me about the beginning of that. I loved that.
Abi Balingit:
Oh my God. Yeah, so I feel like Allrecipes was a community site and still is active with everyone who can post whatever they're making. Also, post the actual straight-up recipes, ingredient list directions. And I used to love being on there just to review recipes. I wasn't a poster. I was a lurker and enjoyer, and that's where I kind of learned how to bake for the first time was really just prowling on those and just talking in that community.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh, I love that. And what kinds of desserts at that time were you gravitating towards?
Abi Balingit:
Oh yeah, I think these were mostly cupcakes. I think there was one burnt sugar cake recipe on there that I loved, the moist Hershey's special black magic cake recipe, which is honestly the holy grail I think of chocolate cake.
Jessie Sheehan:
I could not agree with you more. For peeps that don't know, there's an incredible, basically, one bowl chocolate cake, right, on the back of the Hershey can of cocoa, and this incredible frosting that goes with it?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
That cake is incredible.
Abi Balingit:
So good.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. But you weren't yet embracing Filipino ingredients necessarily in your baking, kind of sticking to what Allrecipes was showing you?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, yeah. I think I was mostly motivated by Food Network stars and “Ace of Cakes,” and I guess Candace from Sprinkles Cupcakes was a huge influence, where I just wanted to make things that I saw on TV.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. And then at 17, you got your first KitchenAid.
Abi Balingit:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
So then did the desserts get a little more sophisticated, or it was just that your arm wasn't as tired from all the whisking, et cetera.
Abi Balingit:
I think both of those things. I truly was excited because I think it was the first time I could try macarons, and I think that was a huge thing in that timeframe, 2013, 2011, 2012. It was so exciting to dive straight into that. My parents got it for Christmas, I think it was, and I was so grateful because I just never thought I could get one of it. It was just one of those things you saw at Costco. I was like, it's so expensive and when you're 17, you have no money. I'm like, what money do you have?
Jessie Sheehan:
There are all these great little essays throughout your new cookbook. And in one of them, you describe yourself as the dork who could bake. And I think you're describing a story of when you were making a bunch of mini cheesecakes in high school. Was that sort of the beginning of the kind of slightly older Abi just trying her hand at more sophisticated desserts, or was that just par for the course cheesecakes?
Abi Balingit:
I think that was honestly just par for the course, just straight up strawberry cheesecakes that you'd find online, and this was a lot of just making it for friends and also for family. But I really was just in AP classes, taking my SATs, doing all those things that were so stressful at the time, and I think baking was really the outlet that was like, I want to de-stress and be relaxed, and that was baking for me.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. So you started your blog in the summer of 2020, Dusky Kitchen in your tiny Brooklyn kitchen.
Abi Balingit:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
And you had said that before the pandemic started, a baking blog had been one of your goals, but it kind of took the beginning of the pandemic to get you motivated.
Abi Balingit:
Yeah. I definitely got the domain I think December of 2019, and I knew I wanted to do it, but it was just a matter of sitting down, actually going on WordPress, actually committing because of the pandemic of having time in quarantine to sit and reflect on what I really wanted to do. And I think that's when I really dove headfirst into baking.
Jessie Sheehan:
Baking during the pandemic was sort of your entry into making Filipino food at home, can you talk about that a little bit?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, I mean, I think it was a point of also desperation, sadness, just really missing my family, and I think that was the motivation of trying to involve more Filipino flavors and concepts into what I was making. And I was nervous because I think my parents never really gave me recipe books, honestly. And it's a very common problem that we come across with children of immigrants, of always just being like, "Please help," and it's a little bit of this and a little bit of that and just look at it by sight. I'm just like, I have no instinct for that. And I think power to our parents for really being intuitive cooks and bakers, but for me, I was just like, this is hard when you've never done it before. So I was really relying on both FaceTime and also just on the internet, again, researching a lot of Filipino baking blogs, a lot of Filipino cookbooks helped me get to this point.
I think one of my favorite bakers who also did a blurb for my cookbook was Michelle Lopez from Hummingbird High, biggest inspiration, I feel like in the Filipino-American space for sure. And it was just exciting getting her blog along with just looking at cookbooks like “Philippine X” by Angela Dimayuga and Ligaya Mishan all are really huge I guess influences for me. Because they were doing it, I felt it was more feasible for me to also do the same thing, but in my own way, but just getting the building blocks from them.
Jessie Sheehan:
Amazing. And when you first started baking and posting things on the blog, I read that you would describe it as fusion Asian-American and Filipino kind of fused together. Can you tell us a little bit about some of the things you made?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, I mean, I think initially one of my first recipes was a pork floss miso brownie, and that was one of those things where again, not necessarily is a Filipino, but a lot of Chinese influence there. And then for the first pasalubong treat box, I also had horchata bibingka, so I don't want to spill too many beans, but that is definitely a Latinx-Filipino fusion for sure.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. And that's a great segue to talking about your boxes. So you started selling your pasalubong boxes, which were your Filipino-American fusion box of desserts in about August of 2020.
Abi Balingit:
Yes. August 2020.
Jessie Sheehan:
Creating of the boxes in your idea for them was influenced by the Bakers Against Racism bake sales. Is that right?
Abi Balingit:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Can you tell us about that influence and how it got you motivated?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah. I mean, Paola Velez was on this pod as well, but she's a huge influence of, at the time, especially in 2020, the despair that I was mentioning before was also motivated by politically everything going on, Black Lives Matter. I wanted to do something to help. And I think because Paola had started this with Bakers Against Racism, it felt, again, more feasible and you could do it too. And so that's when I demonstrated and I was like, I'm scared of showing people what I'm making and for people to actually taste it that don't know me. But I think people really latch on to good things for good intentions and good purposes, and I was really excited that people did want to try what I was making, even though I've never done this before.
Jessie Sheehan:
It's amazing. Can you tell us what pasalubong means in English or how you translate it and what language it's from?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, so it is actually Tagalog and the best way to describe it, it's just a souvenir from when you're traveling. If I'm going out and about my day, okay, I'll get some black and white cookies here from New York, I'll get some arugula. Then if I'm going back to the Philippines, then I'll bring that to my family and friends, and this is pasalubong from where I'm from. But it is really fun to do that exchange back and forth because so much of our family, the diaspora is so large that you're always traveling and always giving back to the people that you love.
Jessie Sheehan:
We'll be right back. The latest issue of Cherry Bombe Magazine is all about love, and I think you're going to love the cover. It features Ilona, Olivia, and Adrianna Mar, the sister trio that has won everyone's hearts for their message of confidence and body positivity. The issue is full of joyful stories and recipes, and we know the world needs a little more love right now. So we hope you'll pick up a copy. Head to cherrybombe.com, or click the link in our show notes, or visit your favorite bookstore or culinary shop to get an issue.
Peeps, have you tuned into Radio Cherry Bombe? It's the flagship podcast from Cherry Bombe hosted by founder Kerry Diamond. Every Monday, Kerry sits down with the most fascinating folks in food, drink, and hospitality, from icons to rising stars. Don't miss your conversations with Ina Garten, Alice Waters, Padma Lakshmi, "The Bear's" Liza Colón-Zayas, and so many more. Listen to Radio Cherry Bombe on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Now, back to our guest.
And then tell everyone about that Time Out article. Didn't that kind of blow up those boxes?
Abi Balingit:
It's so wild because I think that was two days within announcing that kind of box and my now friend, Emma Orlow, who wrote that piece, was like, "Hey, this is so exciting. Do you want to talk about it?" And being in New York is a huge part of the magic of being a baker in food, especially here. And so I think that was the first media experience I'd ever had. Since then, it's blown up, of course, and I'm very grateful for Emma for calling. At least funny, I don't even know how she found me. I think it's just Twitter, again, Instagram and the magic of the algorithm, sometimes good, sometimes bad, but in this case, good.
Jessie Sheehan:
So she basically wrote a little piece in Time Out magazine announcing that the boxes would be sold that weekend and where people could go if they wanted to find them. Is that what it was?
Abi Balingit:
Correct. Yeah. She interviewed me a little bit and then also just put a spotlight on, "Hey, get these boxes. They're benefiting Bed-Stuy Strong, which is a mutual aid organization in my neighborhood.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, it's so cool. I feel like that was such a hard time, obviously, but also such a really special time because I do feel like there was a lot of lifting up of people and of recognizing cool things that people were doing and wanting to get the word out. And I just remember we were all... Every time I heard there was a pop-up or this or that, I was like, oh my God, I have to go. It was right because we were so tired of being by ourselves and I wanted to try all the things that everyone was making and get that opportunity. So I love it that she did that for you, and that article came out and then from then on, they kind of sold out, right?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah. I mean ever since then, I think it was 30 minutes sold out, and I don't make that many, I think of course, 50 about. But yeah, it's always limited spaces, and I think the pre-order system works really well just so you know how to anticipate how much to make. And also it's kind of like if people are going to go and be active and actually want to go to your pop-up, then they will pre-order and then they will show up and put that money forward, which is really crucial in buying ingredients and all that stuff that you have to do for bake sales like this.
Jessie Sheehan:
I think that's really important, and I'm so glad you mentioned that for people wanting to do something like what you did, what Abi's saying is that you make sure that the people can order what they want before the pop-up happens, which is great. And then, do you have any boxes there that somebody who just stopped by could grab or not really?
Abi Balingit:
Oh my gosh. I think of all the times I did it, maybe six rounds of pasalubong boxes that rarely anyone has left behind a box. But if they did, then we would sell that and give that to whoever who wants it. But the embarrassing thing is that one time I miscounted and the way that I oversold and I was just in shambles and my family from Jersey came and I was like, "Is it okay if I give away your box to someone?" Just because it's like you can't disappoint strangers, and I feel like your friends and your family are really nice, but I felt terrible. That was the worst. That was the worst day.
Jessie Sheehan:
I feel like that would be me every week. I'd be like, "Oh, no."
Abi Balingit:
It's funny because bakers are supposed to be good at math and science, but I'm like, math and science are my worst subjects. And when you're in the moment and you're doing volume baking and you get it, Jessie.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Abi Balingit:
It's really hard to keep a straight head on when you have so many moving parts all the time. And so that was one of the times where I was like, oh, and you learn from that. I learned very hard way from that.
Jessie Sheehan:
For the listeners who are interested in writing cookbooks or write them themselves, tell us how the boxes led to a cookbook.
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, I mean, I would post every dessert from the treat boxes. Just after it happened, I'd be like, "Okay, well, here's the recipes that I used." And then I would just post the pictures. And I think for one time I was just again, baking for fun, nothing wild. And it wasn't even the treat box, I was just again baking and it was the burnt sugar cupcakes with a five spice type brittle and Lao Gan Ma chili crisp on top. And that was when my literary agent Emmy reached out to me and was like, "Hey, I love what you're doing. Are you thinking of writing a cookbook?" And I was like, "No."
In my head, I was like, "No, I'm not." But now that you mention it, and I was just like, I'm in my plotting era. And yeah, I think that was a jumping point where the internet has opened so many doors for me, first from Emma interviewing me for Time Out, and then to my agent finding me on Twitter. It's astounding how that translates into in-person connections. I have not met my agent in real life yet, but again, the book is in your hands now, so it's worked.
Jessie Sheehan:
Now it's time to discuss horchata bibingka. I read that rice and coconut milk are actually cornerstones of Filipino desserts, and so I thought this is so great because this is the perfect dessert for us to chat about with you since it includes both of those cornerstones. First things first, could you describe a traditional bibingka for us?
Abi Balingit:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So basically it's a coconut milk rice cake, and it's baked in banana leaves. There's usually a salted duck egg on top, and also cheese, usually Edam cheese, which is like the Dutch cheese, but we call it queso de bola and through trade, I think that's how we ended up getting this cheese, but it's a huge part of Filipino desserts. I feel like everyone uses it for toppings for different types of breads and pastries.
Jessie Sheehan:
So is a bibingka slightly savory, traditionally?
Abi Balingit:
Yes, slightly savory. So it's funny because I feel like now I've been known to do sweet and savory, and for this recipe, I'm eliminating the savory and putting for more sweet. But that's the fun part about playing around with recipes. You just really get to do whatever you want with whatever instance that you're trying to make.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. You also did something interesting with this recipe, as I think you do with all the recipes in the book, but this particular recipe marries flavors from your favorite beverage horchata. Could you describe that beverage for us?
Abi Balingit:
Oh, yeah. I mean, I grew up in Stockton, California, San Jose, California. So being in California, you're always around a lot of great Mexican restaurants, a lot of great burrito spots, and I would always get horchata with a burrito. Honestly, that's my go-to meal. And horchata is just this really delicious rice cinnamon drink and it's present in other Latinx countries, and I just love it. It's kind of a little bit thick, but not too thick. I think they just obviously strain out all the rice and everything, but it still has this viscosity that I really love, and its flavor is just so rich. I think it's just cinnamon is just so good.
Jessie Sheehan:
Well, also, it's such a lovely idea to combine that it's already, we're going to talk about the ingredients of the horchata, so don't worry peeps, but I love the idea of there's already, there's rice in that drink, and then the cinnamon with the coconut must be so delicious. It just sounds like yum.
Abi Balingit:
It just came naturally to me to be like, oh, horchata has rice, and I love bibingka. It also has rice, and maybe we add coconut milk to the horchata and then it could feels like a new thing.
Jessie Sheehan:
Brilliant. So smart. So first things first for this recipe, and I think this will be happening the night before you're going to make your horchata.
Abi Balingit:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
You're going to place some long grain rice and I think you say jasmine rice?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, I just have a lot of jasmine rice. I feel like you use any long grain, but I always have jasmine rice.
Jessie Sheehan:
So you're going to have your long grain rice jasmine and a cinnamon stick. Is there a brand of cinnamon or cinnamon sticks that you're...
Abi Balingit:
Oh, I do feel like I just randomly had McCormick when I was making this.
Jessie Sheehan:
McCormick?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, it's just there.
Jessie Sheehan:
It happens.
Abi Balingit:
It's widely available.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. So we have our long grain rice jasmine. We have a cinnamon stick. Put that in a small bowl and pour some boiling water on top.
Abi Balingit:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
And just let that kind of sit overnight on the counter. Yes?
Abi Balingit:
Yes. You're kind of softening up the cinnamon stick, also the rice. And so overnight just ends up being easier to blend later.
Jessie Sheehan:
The next day, you're going to strain out the rice and the cinnamon stick?
Abi Balingit:
So first, you actually blend it just so you get all the flavor incorporated.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, the blending happens first. Okay.
Abi Balingit:
And then you strain out all the gritty stuff because it still remains hard even overnight after soaking. And so it is important to get rid of that.
Jessie Sheehan:
You blend the cinnamon stick as well?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, you blend it.
Jessie Sheehan:
Wow. Oh, so cool.
Abi Balingit:
Yes, I know. I feel like it doesn't seem intuitive at all, but then you go ahead and-
Jessie Sheehan:
But it's probably softened a bit overnight, so it's not quite as hard.
Abi Balingit:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
So you blend those two things together, then you strain that and then you cook it with some coconut milk.
Abi Balingit:
Yes. I definitely want to strengthen the flavor and the resulting glaze and by thickening up and basically reducing down that mixture with coconut milk, and first incorporating the flavor of the coconut from the coconut milk, but also just having a bit of oomph instead of just straight up, just like that thin liquid from the horchata.
Jessie Sheehan:
And you're going to cook that until reduced, and then you're going to cool that to room temperature.
Abi Balingit:
Yeah. Yeah. So it's cooling while you do the next step.
Jessie Sheehan:
Perfect. Perfect. So now we're going to make the cakes, and I have to say, and I say cakes because it's like cupcakes essentially, although do people make this as one big?
Abi Balingit:
Yes. You traditionally would just have in the bigger... I would say I usually do it in cast iron if it was a large size of bibingka, but it's nice. I wanted to do some that were individual servings, and so yeah, they come in all different sizes, but I just wanted these to be like handheld single servings.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. And I also love that the cakes, these little cupcakes are almost one bowl because I love a one bowl recipe and basically the queen. And then I also love that there's no stand mixer.
Abi Balingit:
Oh, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
So it's like, even though I love that you've had your stand mixer since you were 17, I'm also happy to see it not being used in this recipe.
Abi Balingit:
Oh, no. I know. I don't want to make anyone wash more dishes than they have to.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay. So we're going to heat the oven to 350 degrees. What's super cool about this recipe is that rather than use cupcake liners, you're using banana leaves. Just so I understand, if you were making bibingka, let's say in your cast iron as you said, would you just have one huge banana leaf underneath it?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, a lot of times too, I feel like it depends which banana leaf you get the shape of it. Sometimes you have to layer them a bit just to get full coverage of the cast iron. And for this recipe specifically, you cut out little rounds and so that you can actually have little cups basically for each one.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love it. I guess you buy... Do banana leaves usually come frozen?
Abi Balingit:
Yes, usually come frozen. It's really hard. I don't know where you can find fresh banana leaves in the States. It's definitely more of a Southeast Asian tropical environment type of good to have. But usually you just thaw it out and I like to wipe it down just because it might be a little dirty still.
Jessie Sheehan:
I was going to ask you, because I know there's the direction to wipe.
Abi Balingit:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
And I wasn't sure if you were wiping away moisture or if you were wiping away...
Abi Balingit:
Both of those things. Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Okay.
Abi Balingit:
So you just want to make sure it's a clean surface and it becomes a bit more pliable instead of just, it's hard to cut when it's still frozen.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Where would we find banana leaves?
Abi Balingit:
I usually find them in the frozen section. And I've luckily been able to find it in not just a Southeast Asian specific grocery store, but literally like SeaTown here and Food Emporium here. And a lot of times it's with the Goya section has a lot of different, not just banana leaves, but they have frozen passion fruit pulp and frozen, all these things that again in that one frozen section right there.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's great. That's great. And is there a favorite brand or is there usually one brand of banana leaves when you go?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, in this case, if you're trying to just go to a general store, it might not always be a Southeast Asian brand or anything. So I would typically, in shortness of time, there's Goya, but also there's this Filipino brand called Tropico, and they have banana leaves. So I love them too, but it's more of just like I have to actively find them. Whatever banana leaves you can get, I hope you can find it somehow.
Jessie Sheehan:
So you cut them into these five-inch circles, and by this time, they've softened enough that you can poke them down into your cupcake tin or your muffin tin?
Abi Balingit:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay, perfect. I haven't baked with banana leaves before. I wondered what are they adding to the recipe? Is it flavor?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, I mean, I think the flavor, it's undeniable that there's something earthy and smoky. When it comes in contact with oven heat, it definitely emits something that adds to the taste of the actual bibingka. If you can't find banana leaves, parchment paper is fine or muffin liner is fine, but it is a totally different kind of dessert without it. So I definitely would say, yeah, there's something about banana leaves and you can't eat the banana leaves. This is a natural thing from this earth and you just use it as a liner versus getting paper or anything else. This was definitely a use case of it being just part of just whatever pantry that someone has. You have access to this in the Philippines so easily. Banana leaves are everywhere, so I just cut up one up and go use it.
Jessie Sheehan:
So you're going to brush the banana leaves with some melted coconut oil.
Abi Balingit:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
And I had two questions. One, is there a favorite kind of pastry brush that you use at home that you would recommend? And then I also wondered if you had a favorite brand of coconut oil that you wanted to share.
Abi Balingit:
Oh yeah, I do feel like I have the OXO one. I love that one. That's a great pastry brush, but also coconut oil. I do feel like randomly there's the Target generic brand. I don't know if you know, it's like Good & Gather or something. They definitely have coconut oil that I use for sure.
Jessie Sheehan:
Great. Now we're going to whisk together some rice flour and some glutinous rice flour. So I wanted to know, first of all, if there's a brand of whisk that you love, would that be OXO again or something else?
Abi Balingit:
I actually have, luckily this material whisk. Oh, they had this amazing one that is very large. I don't even know what is that one shape, Jessie. This is very niche now, but it is like balloon, but it's so great. It has a lot of sturdiness to it.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's good. You can say sturdiness to it. I like that. And then what about the rice flour and the glutinous rice flour? Is there a brand of those that you like?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah. Yeah. So actually again, by sight, I know it most, but it's called Erawan and it's Thai brand again of rice flours. But one of them is green and one of them is red. And so you'll specifically see something that has to say glutinous rice. And the other thing is just regular rice and glutinous rice flour kind of adds to the chewiness of desserts. And so anytime you had mochi or anything like that, it uses glutinous rice flour. So sometimes like Mochiko is another alternative you can use.
Jessie Sheehan:
I was going to ask you what it was adding. I wondered if it was the chew.
Abi Balingit:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we're whisking our rice flour, our glutinous rice flour together with granulated sugar, with baking powder, with kosher salt and with ground cinnamon. So you're whisking together your dry ingredients. Then you make a little well in the center. Listeners might know, but a well is just when you move your ingredients away into almost create a little hole or a little well in the center of the bowl and you are going to add some lightly whisked eggs and melted unsalted butter, unsweetened coconut milk, which is nice. That's going to pick up from the horchata as well.
Abi Balingit:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. And then some vanilla. Is there a brand of vanilla that you like?
Abi Balingit:
Oh my gosh. It's funny because I had so much of Kirkland Vanilla also from doing everything in bulk, especially with the treat boxes. It lasted me like a year and I'm like, no other vanilla extract is going to do that for me unless I spend $40 or something. So it is a cost-effective, but great vanilla extract, I think.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. Fantastic. And you're going to whisk that together until smooth. And then it's just about three tablespoons of batter into each cavity, each banana leaf-lined cavity baking for 20 to 22 minutes until a toothpick comes out clean. And I wondered if you had a favorite cake tester. I love using long wooden skewers. Sometimes people like using a little paring knife. Is there something that you like specifically?
Abi Balingit:
I think because these are only three tablespoons of batter, so typically if it's a higher cake or something, I would use a long cake tester. But toothpicks are just fine because of the height that these are maybe like three inches maybe. So it's fine.
Jessie Sheehan:
Do they rise to the top of the cavity or are they sort of a shorter cupcake?
Abi Balingit:
I would say a little bit of a shorter cupcake because the next step, whenever we do the glaze, you can have a bit of it where it pulls and so it's not necessarily running off the edge, if that makes sense.
Jessie Sheehan:
It does, it does. We let our cupcakes cool. And do you just leave them in the tin in the banana leaves while they cool?
Abi Balingit:
Usually, for at least a few minutes or so, you can usually use the banana leaves and take them out and place them on the wire rack. But I think sometimes that's honestly when I... It's a time kind of thing. It's funny because in the cookbook you have to be very specific about these things, but I'm like, it's fun. I mean, obviously you don't want the residual heat to overcook it too much. I think it's going to be okay. It won't get overcooked that way. I don't know.
Jessie Sheehan:
It is hard to learn how to be so precise about the directions when you're writing a cookbook with baking recipes. I'll just say "Whisk until smooth," and then the editor will be like, "How many seconds?"
Abi Balingit:
Well, I don't know.
Jessie Sheehan:
They have to go back, make it again or just be like 40.
Abi Balingit:
And time yo
No, I know. And yeah, so for this case, if you have the time, ideally just take them out and put them on the wire rack. But again, if you're running low, just put the tin on the wire rack. It's fine. Everything's good. And you're going to serve them in those little banana leaves. Correct?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah.
Abi Balingit:
I love that. So now we're going to make the glaze. There's going to be a sprinkle of coconut flakes on top.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Abi Balingit:
So I was going to ask, is there a brand of coconut flakes that you like? Oh, yeah, it's like that one that's like a blue bag.
Jessie Sheehan:
Bakers.
Abi Balingit:
Bakers.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Abi Balingit:
Yes. Thank God. Thank you for just... Honestly, yeah, that one's so great. I always use that one.
Jessie Sheehan:
So it's sweetened coconut that you're putting on top?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, this one is sweetened coconut. I do think it's not necessarily, again, traditional topping for the bibingka, but I just love that it is first common to find. I think it's sometimes harder for people to find unsweetened sometimes in the store. I think that's the first thing I'll see at any grocery store. But yeah, I do like that adds a little extra sweetness again with this recipe.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love coconut, sweetened coconut or coconut flakes. I love it all. And you say to toast them in a saucepan, is that like toasting maybe on the stove top in a cast iron or do you like to put them in the oven? How do you like to toast?
Abi Balingit:
Oh, we have this one really large saucepan at home that is not cast iron, but non-stick even, and it's quite large. Maybe I'm doing this motion, not that it helps on the podcast, but I'm holding around my 20 inches maybe diameter. But I do like using that just because you can easily use your spatula to move it around quite easily so you can see.
Jessie Sheehan:
Nice. I love that you're doing it on the stove top. I'm always sticking it in my toaster oven or I'm putting it in my... If I'm preheating my oven anyway, I'll stick it on a cookie sheet in the oven.
Abi Balingit:
Oh, wow.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then just shake the sheet maybe halfway through to move it around a little. When you do it on the stove top, what's nice is you are using a spatula and you're moving it around all the time. But even in the oven, it works.
Abi Balingit:
Oh, thank you, Jessie. That's good tip. I'm nervous about that sometimes though, because I feel like I don't pay attention sometimes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, I know.
Abi Balingit:
And if you don't look away, then you have to open it but that's okay.
Jessie Sheehan:
I can't tell you how many times I've burnt coconut or burnt nuts and my toaster oven are in the oven and you're like, "What's that smell? Oh, no."
Abi Balingit:
I think nuts are harder because they're so much more expensive. It pains me here.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. It's so painful when you forget.
Abi Balingit:
So painful.
Jessie Sheehan:
But then you're worried if I put them in anyway, are they going to make everything taste burnt? So I usually...
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, honestly. And at that point, it's really not worth unfortunately.
Jessie Sheehan:
I know.
Abi Balingit:
And that's when you know how to call it. And I feel like that's the hardest thing because I feel like everyone who bakes and is intimidated by baking, it's the waste that happens when you make a fatal mistake. And sometimes it happens and you have to move on and don't be too hard on yourself. But it has happened. Browning butter, browning, toasting, anything, it can go awry really quickly.
Jessie Sheehan:
It's so hard. And also, I think to some degree, all of us bakers are very anal and rule-oriented and following direction-oriented. So it always seems out of character to us. How did I mess that up?
Abi Balingit:
I know.
Jessie Sheehan:
I'm usually on top of it.
Abi Balingit:
And you're baking for years and years. It doesn't even matter. It happens to the best of us, honestly.
Jessie Sheehan:
It doesn't. It doesn't. We are going to finish up this recipe, but I did want to mention, since we're kind of talking about it, you have a great essay, I think. Maybe it's in a headnote in the book, but just talking about your preoccupation with perfection that you have figured out how to deal with.
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, I mean I think it's a thing about letting go a lot. And I think I love control. I want to control everything about my life and every little aspect of it. But I think getting older, it's every year I realize that's impossible to do and some things are out of your control and other things you can obviously check the oven and make sure, oh, it's too brown, then I have to take it out. But especially with baking, I feel like because I started and I didn't know anything when I first started to bake, and now I feel like I know so much more and I'm continuing to learn so much more. I think it's that appreciation for not knowing is a good thing. And I guess no matter how long I bake for, years and years of my life, there's still things I will not know until maybe I'm like 70 years old and I'm in the kitchen.
I'm like, wow, that's a new technique I've never heard of. And that's the exciting part. And I think that's for me, being a perfectionist now, I'm trying my best to still say that I value good work and my work ethic and all that stuff, but I still want to have fun. I still want to enjoy baking. And I think there's this balance that you have to do. And that's where I'm at, is always learning how to balance and juggle. And so we're at the air conditioning section of just homeostasis or whatever it is. You're always trying to reach this point, but it's okay if you're not at that point.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. Thank you for inspiring us mid-recipe. Now we're going to make the glaze. So we toast the coconut and then you're going to whisk some sifted powdered sugar, some kosher salt, some ground cinnamon, the horchata, that you made the night before and finished up that morning.
Abi Balingit:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
And your vanilla until smooth and then drizzle the glaze. Should the cupcakes be room temperature by the time you...
Abi Balingit:
Oh, yeah. I think by that point, it should be room temperature, especially since you were toasting the coconut after that.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then you're kind of drizzling the glaze on top.
Abi Balingit:
I love to just literally take a half tablespoon and just pour it on top and let the dome kind of just let it fall through. And I think because of your banana leaf liner, it catches whatever, doesn't run off of it. And so I love doing that method. It's just easy, just like scoop, scoop, scoop.
Jessie Sheehan:
Also, it sounds like it's pretty moist. Does it kind of absorb the glaze as well?
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, I think because this glaze is a little, I want to say on the thick side, and I do prefer that just because I think visually, it looks a little bit better. And I think you get that too. If it's too thin, then you can't really even see the glaze. And so what I also really like is adding the toasted coconut on top is kind of like a dam. I put a lot of coconut. I don't even know what I said in that recipe. I just sprinkle as much as I... Because there is a lot of coconut yield in that. And so put as much coconut as you want and it just settles the glaze.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. And then serve immediately. Yes?
Abi Balingit:
Yes. Enjoy. Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Perfect, perfect. I love that. And I can't wait to make that. Sounds so delicious. I just wanted to talk about a couple of other amazing recipes from the book, Halo-Halo Baked Alaska with Ube Jam, because that is the recipe on the cover of the book. It looks like heaven to me. It's a Baked Alaska, but it's with the flavors of Halo-Halo, which is, I think I read this, the bite that's most emblematic of Filipino cuisine and it means mix, mix.
Abi Balingit:
Yeah. I mean, it's because of the Philippines, it's so hot. So it's a tropical environment. So I love the shaved ice desserts that you get. It's very refreshing. And so a traditional Halo-Halo is like sweetened red bean. There's jackfruit. There's these coconut gel. There's evaporated milk and ice cream and leche flan. You have a bite of everything all at once, and you get to mix it all in your bowl. And then for the Baked Alaska, just translating those flavors, I wanted, again, the ube, mango, ice cream, but also I make a granita with jackfruit steeped in evaporated milk. And then I add in the Halo-Halo mix that you get. So all the beans that I mentioned, the coconut gel, all that stuff is inside the dome of the Baked Alaska. And then there's a coconut sponge at the very bottom. And so just torching that. I still think it's emblematic, hopefully of the original recipe or dessert, but just in a different way.
Jessie Sheehan:
And the granita is the shaved ice.
Abi Balingit:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, I love that. So it's like different but the same.
Abi Balingit:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
And I also like that it's a combo. It's not necessarily easy, but you're not asking people to make ice cream.
Abi Balingit:
No.
Jessie Sheehan:
So that there's shortcut-ish written into the recipe, which is nice.
Abi Balingit:
Yeah, it's funny because if you had chosen that, Jessie, I feel like we would be here a little while. I know it's not necessarily you get a hard recipe, it's just time intensive.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Abi Balingit:
But yeah, the steps hopefully are digestible for everyone. But it is a long recipe. The longest in the book, for sure.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, I love that. And I loved Baked Alaska, so I love any kind of twist on that. And then finally I wanted to mention the Filipino flag cookies. Can you tell people about those?
Abi Balingit:
I feel like not a lot of people ask me about them, but they're basically inspired by black and white cookies here in New York, but instead of chocolate and vanilla, one of the colored sides is actually Jasmine extract flavored. And so the Filipino national flower is the Sampaguita, which is a family of the jasmine flower. I wanted to put that. But also it's like red, blue and yellow and white, the colors of the Filipino flag. And I just love them. I think it's so whimsical. And then Katie, my food stylist for the book, she added the little fresh jasmine on top, and it's just stunning. I think in the book, that is one of my favorite recipes to look at just because, and I also like the taste, but it's also just a great recipe.
Jessie Sheehan:
I also think it's a wonderful mix of Abi because it's like Filipino, but it's also American with the black and white cookie. That's such a cool mixture there. Thank you so much for chatting with me today, Abi. And I just wanted to say that you are my cherry pie.
Abi Balingit:
Oh, Jessie, I love you so much. Thank you for everything.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's it for today's show. Don't forget to follow She's My Cherry Pie on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. And tell your pals about us. She's My Cherry Pie is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Our producers are Kerry Diamond, Catherine Baker, and Jenna Sadhu. Thank you so much for listening to She's My Cherry Pie and happy baking.