Abigail Koffler Transcript
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Hi everyone. You're listening to The Future Of Food Is You, a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Abena Anim-Somuah. Each week I'll be talking to emerging talents in the food world. We'll hear about their dreams, aspirations, and predictions for what's ahead. As for me, I'm the founder of The Eden Place, a community that's all about gathering people intentionally around food. I love this new generation of chefs, bakers, and creatives making their way in the worlds of food, drink, media, and tech.
Today's guest is writer, recipe developer, and cooking instructor Abigail Koffler. She's the voice behind the food newsletter This Needs Hot Sauce. We talk about her upbringing in New York City, how she knew Substack was the future of publishing back in 2018, and how she collaborates with her friends. And at the end of the show, Abigail shares a message for her future self.
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Now let's check in with today's guest. Abigail, super excited to have you on The Future Of Food Is You Podcast.
Abigail Koffler:
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
First things first, let's start off. You are a native New Yorker born and raised.
Abigail Koffler:
Yes. I was born and raised in Queens. Now I live in Brooklyn.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Amazing. And I feel like Native New Yorkers have a special relationship to food, or maybe just like any native New Yorker we've talked on the podcast just has such wonderful takes. I'm curious to hear what were some of your favorite spots to go to as a kid?
Abigail Koffler:
I really feel like I was spoiled as a kid in just that I got to eat food from all around the world and a lot of it was very close by. But I have to shout out Dani's House of Pizza in Kew Gardens. It's been open since I believe 1959. It's still going strong, and they have a sweet sauce which I really like. It's not as common in the fancy pizzerias now, but you just can go sit at the counter, you can get a takeout pie. We would get it sometimes coming back from a trip after getting home from the airport and it was like, "Okay, we're home."
And then the other place, which is thankfully still open as well, is Eddie's Sweet Shop. It's in Forest Hills, and it's an ice cream parlor that's basically frozen in time. They make all their ice cream, whipped cream in these giant bowls. It's like a mountain of whipped cream and hot fudge and it's just whether you're an adult or a kid, it'll make you very happy to go there.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, I feel like my friends and I should go over there because we all live in Brooklyn, the air of doing food field trips to Queens. I think there's such a bedrock of exciting food talent there. And you've gone to live your whole life in New York with brief stints in other places, but how do you think the food scene now compares to when you were a kid?
Abigail Koffler:
Well, I do think New Yorkers have always been willing to travel for a good meal. I think that's something I remember from growing up is that even in my school, we would sometimes go on field trips to, we'd be learning about a culture in social studies and then we could go to, let's say a Buddhist temple and actually eat the food there. That's exciting. And that kind of experience I think was really formative. Nothing is so theoretical, you can actually try it. So that's still definitely a thing. I mean, now people are looking on TikTok to find their recommendations. In the past, maybe they're reading a newspaper or a Zagat book or something, but obviously everything has gotten so expensive and I really do feel like the rent prices have just really hurt a lot of small business owners. So a lot of places that I used to go to as a kid closed and during the pandemic especially. So that's something that I think is a bummer. But I do think it's still a really great food scene and that I feel very lucky to call it my home.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Growing up at home, what was food like in your family?
Abigail Koffler:
So I grew up in a family where we ate at home most nights actually, both my parents cooked and they're actually really big meal planners. So every weekend they would take a piece of paper, always scrap paper. They were very green, so it was like a ripped up math worksheet or something, and they would plan out what we were going to have for dinner. Every night that week we would go to the grocery store. Usually my mom would do some of the prep during the day and then my dad would cook it once he got home from work to de-stress. So I definitely relate to that as having cooking as a way to just wind down at the end of the day.
And then, yeah, they made a lot of different stuff. I mean, I used to be kind of picky, so I was like classic tacos, pasta, pizza. And then I got more adventures as I got older, but a lot of home cooking and we would also make challah a lot and do things for the Jewish holidays. So those are some of my earliest kitchen memory is standing on the little stool covered in flour, learning how to make challah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so fun. I recently made challah. I feel like it's such a laborious but rewarding experience.
Abigail Koffler:
Yeah, I love it as a Friday afternoon project because it doesn't need a lot of active time because it's just rising multiple times. So it's nice if you could just doing some low-key computer work, waiting for your challah to rise, braiding it, and then you get to eat it, obviously.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Good way to set up your Shabbat. You started to dive into the food world more from the writing perspective when you went to college, where'd you end up going?
Abigail Koffler:
So I went to college at Penn in Philly and I got really involved in food there through 34th Street, which is the arts and culture magazine there. And I was a food editor for two years and then digital editor, so did a ton of food writing and it also helped me get to know the city of Philadelphia as well.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's awesome. Do you remember the first piece that you wrote?
Abigail Koffler:
Okay, I looked it up, but it was for the Welcome Back issue. So we basically did this series encouraging freshmen to get off campus and try out some of the cool eateries of West Philadelphia and just not stick to the closest thing. And I think that was something we were always trying to encourage people to do was not just be a student at the school, be a citizen of the city and get involved and really, because there's so much great food there.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
For sure. And what better way to do that than grabbing some grub? If you were to go back to Philly today, what would be two or three spots that you have to try?
Abigail Koffler:
Yeah, I try to go back at least once a year and I feel it's so easy to get to from New York, but I always get a tahini milkshake from Goldie, which is in the Solomonov Empire and it's so delicious. I'm lactose intolerant, so milkshakes are not really my thing, but a tahini shake is so good. And then I actually was there in November, we went to Pietramala, which is a vegan BYOB [bring your own booze]. And it was so good and creative. They had these fried lion’s mane mushrooms with hot honey that were so good. And it was just a great group dinner spot and near a lot of fun spots to go after. So definitely recommend that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's Michael Solomonov of Laser Wolf and then the other joints.
Abigail Koffler:
I hope he brings Goldie to New York because they just do falafel in the tahini shakes. It's a really small lunch spot, but we don't have one yet. So this is-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Fingers crossed if he's listening. So you wrote for the newspaper, you became this foodie writer when you were in college. It sounds like you took a bit of a break and then landed into This Needs Hot Sauce. I love the name by the way. It's super creative. How did you come up with it?
Abigail Koffler:
So I was trying to think of something that would be fun and expressive, but also expansive. So I just was throwing around ideas and a friend was like, "How about this?" And then I tried to say it for a little bit and I got everyone who I optioned it through was like, "Oh, this is a cool one." And it's stuck and I think it speaks to, I do always ask for a side of hot sauce at restaurants. That's very true to me, my friends can tell you. But it's also a zest for life, a curiosity, trying new things. And that's the spirit that I want to bring to the newsletter and to all the work that I do is enthusiasm, creativity, inquisitiveness, all that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And you recently posted on your Instagram about the story of how it came to be. So what sparked the first edition of This Needs Hot Sauce?
Abigail Koffler:
Okay, so we're going to have to go back to 2017 because This Needs Hot Sauce is over five years old. I was in-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Congratulations.
Abigail Koffler:
Thank you. So basically I was working at a nonprofit job that I really hated. It was like cubicle, fluorescent lights, terrible pain, terrible boss, not good in any way. And I was really feeling down about just my life path. I was like, "Oh, I hate this job, but what other job can I get?" Blah, blah. Even though looking back, I was so young. But I'd also just gone through a breakup. I was really in a bad place and I was having applying for some food jobs, but just wasn't getting any bites.
So I was like, what can I do? And I had the idea for a food newsletter just as something to basically take my mind off the other things that were stressing me out. And I thought about it for a few months and then in October I just posted on my Instagram story, ‘Hey, I'm starting a food newsletter.’ The first one comes out tonight. I put the link in my bio. This was like before you could put links I think in stories. And I just sent it out and I think 40 people got the first one, to all people I knew. And it was just fun. I wrote it every Sunday. And the sections actually, it was similarly structured to how it is now. It had recipes, restaurants and products and then links and stuff to read. So I kept that pretty much the whole time and then it just grew.
And then about six months after I started, I got laid off from my nonprofit job, which obviously getting laid off is really terrible and I know a lot of people are going through it now. But looking back, it was a huge blessing in disguise. I decided to give freelancing a try. I got a side job teaching at a school part time. I was babysitting and I finally had clips. I emailed some editors at small local places and I was like, "I have a newsletter. I don't really have any publish experience except for my college stuff." But I sent them my newsletter, which was every week so it showed that I knew about the food scene, I can meet a deadline, et cetera. And that's how I started getting my first freelance assignment. So I'm always grateful for that, that it kind of gave me that push into things.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Can you walk us through the process of how an issue comes to be?
Abigail Koffler:
Yes. I'm constantly thinking about it, but there's two issues every week on Monday. There's the general public one, and then I do a paid subscriber one on Thursday. So that one, the format varies a little more, but it could be an essay, an interview, a recipe, and then I have an advice column for my paid subscribers, which I really enjoy. People be like, "Oh, I need to take my mom somewhere great for her birthday." And they tell me all the details and then I help them find a reservation. So that's really fun. But in general, I basically am keeping notes throughout the whole week, whether it's just taking photos of things, saving articles that I think are interesting. I have a notion list where I save those. And then I have my format that I do every week. So I really just sit down on Monday and write it whatever time you receive it, whether it's 12:30, 2:00 p.m. that's when it was finished.
Yeah, it's not scheduled. So sometimes it gets a little wonky if I'm traveling. My introduction is the most diary-esque part of it because sometimes it's like “I can't even, we're just going to get straight into it,” and sometimes there's something else that I want to talk about. In the winter, I have been sharing this concept called Gentle January, which I first heard about from, @oliveandartisan is the Instagram, but her name's Karlee [Flores] and she started sharing this idea and I loved it so much that I started sharing it as well. And it's just been so helpful for my seasonal depression friends and something like that is something that's not technically I guess food related, but it really can be. And I think I really like getting to expand the conversation a little bit.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, something that I've enjoyed about you is it always comes back to food. I feel like we're in this era of a lot of public personalities and I was just telling a friend this other day, it's like sometimes I feel like I know too much about people. The allure of wanting to know someone more outside of my phone is kind of lost a little bit. But I think you've done such a great job of, for instance, you'll mention people Dale and your other friends, and I feel like I know them, but I'm almost like, I don't really, I remember the first time I read your newsletter, I was like, “Who's Dale?"
Abigail Koffler:
Dale's my boyfriend.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I know. And then I was like, "Oh.' But it's nice. I feel like you don't have this grande gesture where it's like, "Here's my life as I live it and here are people that are important in it."
Abigail Koffler:
Well, I'll tell you kind of a funny story about that. So when I first wrote the very early issues, I would just say my friend, and it was the most robotic sounding thing ever because it would be going to dinner with my friend, and then another friend, and then maybe my mom. It was just all these characters and it sounded really clunky, but I was obviously not eating these meals by myself. And I also think looking back at the memories, it's cool to remember who I was with because that's such an important part of a food memory is who you're sharing it with. So I actually soft launched Dale when we first started dating.
His hand was in the background of some of the food photos and then I think, I don't remember the exact time I first put his name in, but yeah, he doesn't have Instagram or anything, so it's fun to get to include glimpses of our lives together. But obviously he's a more private person, so I'm like, "We'll share a little." He loves wings. That's something I always share, but I do love getting to do that. And for my friends, they love it. They're always like, am I going to be in a newsletter if we hang out? So, I really appreciate that they're so supportive of it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Well, as hard as it is to say you have an incredibly lonely job, it's just you behind the computer, just you writing. And it sounds like you've been able to start to create an audience for yourself, but I'm curious how you're able to both find community in your audience. Obviously you have your column, but then also finding community with other foodie writer friends.
Abigail Koffler:
I think for deep writing, I do need to be by myself. I have gone back and forth. I've tried some co-working spaces and stuff, but I think for what works for me is really making sure I have outlets in my day where I know I'm going to see a person. So it could be going to a coffee shop, making a coffee date, going to an event at night. I really look forward to these things. We first met at an event. And I think, stuff like that I really look forward to because you just get to connect with people after spending the day, like you, your laptop and your thoughts, which depending on how things are going, can be a tough place.
But, I really have found people are so generous with their connections and a lot of people in the industry have become friends after five plus years. So I try to make time, whether it's a meal or just a coffee shop date to spend time with people like that. And I get DMs all the time of people who are like, "I want to try freelancing, which should I do?” And I try to answer everyone. And I host events too through the newsletter. So I'm planning the first one for 2023, but I threw a fifth birthday party for us last November, which was really fun. I like getting to bring people together in person.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What'd you get up to for that?
Abigail Koffler:
So we went to a bar called Philomena's in Brooklyn, and it was beautiful. We got pizza where they wrote This Needs Hot Sauce and a five in ricotta on it, so it was like a cake. And then I made goodie bags for everyone with some of my favorite brands. So we had Omsom, Red Clay, Ghia, and Sanzo. They sent products which was so nice, and I made stickers with my logo on them, and my parents came which was really cute. They were like, "Is it okay if we come?" I was like, “You guys literally made me and then you made this too.”
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You're like, "This is your grandbaby. You got to come."
Abigail Koffler:
The only one they have.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The only one. I love to manifest on the podcast. What does birthday number 10 look like for you?
Abigail Koffler:
Okay, birthday number 10. The thing I want to think about with my events is just making them bigger in terms of I want them to be giving my community even more. So goodie bags are great, but let's get bigger. Maybe we're going on a trip or maybe we're doing a weekend trip to the Jersey Shore or the beach or something to celebrate, maybe upstate. I don't know. I think it'd be really cool to do a This Needs Hot Sauce retreat and then just continue to grow things. I also really want to host an event in another country. I went to England last year and I tried to figure it out, but I was not there for a long enough time to really figure out the right venue. So next time I go back or another time in the future, I'd love to do more of a series where maybe I'll do one in L.A., maybe one in London, and see who's out there.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
This Needs Hot Sauce is going worldwide. I love it. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back.
Kerry Diamond:
Hi everybody, it's Kerry Diamond here. I'm the founder of Cherry Bombe and the host of Radio Cherry Bombe, and I have a special event to tell you about. The Cherry Bombe Jubilee Conference is taking place Saturday, April 15th at Center415 in Manhattan. Jubilee is the largest gathering of women in and around the world of food and drink. And this will be our 10th in-person Jubilee. It's also Cherry Bombe's 10th birthday. Jubilee day is filled with great talks, networking, beautiful things to eat and drink, and lots of opportunities for connection, conversation, and community. Jubilee tickets are on sale now, so visit cherrybombe.com for more or click on the link in our show notes. We'd love to see you there.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I'm curious how writing has deepened your relationship to food, because now it seems like every time you're consuming, you have to reflect on it in this literary way.
Abigail Koffler:
I think it has deepened my relationships because it just makes me think about things in a slightly deeper way, and that has really helped. I'm a very self-critical person, so sometimes I'll be doing something and I'll just be struggling with a moment, whether it's in the kitchen or just something dumb. You can't get a group of people to agree on where to go for dinner or something. And when you zoom out a little bit, which I think writing helps me do, you can kind of see, okay, what's actually going on?
Are you just being a control freak or are you really stressed and you just need someone else to make the decision? Before the birthday party that I held, I was really stressed about finding time to get cute bags and tissue paper for all my goodie bags, and my week was just really busy. I needed to go to a Target. There's no Target in my neighborhood, blah, blah. But I just finally asked two of my best friends. I was like, we were hanging out anyway and I was like, "Look, can we stop at Target before or after?" And they were like, "Duh, we love Target." We just have this fun 40 minutes because you can't go to Target without buying 10 things you don't need.
So we just ran to Target, had a fun time, and it was just a moment of asking for help, which I'm very bad at doing. So that's a very long-winded way to say that. It helps me zoom out on things in my life and try to think about how I can reflect back on this. And then I've heard too that it’s helpful for other people of just being like, "Hey, we've all been in a moment where you're just overthinking something or two in your head and how can we pull back?" So I think writing for me is a good way to process all that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
There's a lot of aspirational content on the internet.
Abigail Koffler:
Yeah, it's not me.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
There's people in these lofty Brooklyn brownstones and I'm just here in my 200 square foot kitchen with whatever I got from the co-op. And I think that's what I've loved about you is that there's this honesty in your writing. The other day you made this Koshary pasta situation or you'll talk about, “Yeah, literally I ate out every day this week,” and it's like, "Same for me." But you don't do it in a way that's performing. It's: here's a diary. There's no expectation to it. And I think people tend to find more relatability within that.
Abigail Koffler:
Thank you. Yeah. I've talked with Alicia Kennedy about that because she wrote about how food writers are always performing, especially with photography and video, it's hard to just fit all that stuff into your quote unquote “real life,” but I really want to be approachable and accessible, and I also just am not someone who's ever nothing out of place, that's just not me. But I feel like people get really invested.
I moved in December 2021 and we bought a kitchen island off of Craigslist, and it became this whole journey because it was on a fifth floor loft in Soho with no elevator. It became a three-day process to get this to our apartment. Every time I posted it for the first couple months, people were like, "The island, you made it," blah, blah, blah. So it's just these things that everyone has gone through of trying to transport a huge piece of furniture throughout New York City. That's living, that's what we're all doing.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. You mentioned Alicia Kennedy, who I really admire a lot. Her newsletter is truly the best way to start a Monday. You two are both pretty prolific food writers. How has it been working with Substack, especially as a food writer?
Abigail Koffler:
So I've been on Substack since June, 2018, the company was very young. First was on TinyLetter and then-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You’re OG.
Abigail Koffler:
Yeah. I have a friend, Delia Cai. She just published a book, Central Places, you should get it. But anyway, she told me about it, and at the time it was really clunky. I had to manually migrate everything. It was tricky, but it's been a supportive place, I would say It's very easy to use. I like the paid flexibility that you have with that, and it's a great way to manage things. The other platforms have you pay upfront, whereas Substack takes a cut. So that's the model. I wish it could be a little more customizable. In terms of support, I got a grant from them in the early days of the pandemic, which was super helpful and I would love for them to do more, just the support for writers and everything. But I'm happy with it as a home for the newsletter. And I think it has given... They keep adding features that make it slightly more customizable, slightly easier to use.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Are there things that you wish Substack did for food writers in particular? More food writer features or things like that? Because I feel like we're entering this era where either you're writing recipes, or you're making videos about recipes, or you're doing something about recipes. Yeah.
Abigail Koffler:
Yeah. It's everywhere. I think that it would be nice to have slightly better photo features, like you can just put a photo and a caption, but that's it. It would be cool to do some more things and then maybe some more templates because now you have to do all the formatting yourself. It'd be great if they had a recipe template just so you could plug in your stuff instead of having to format everything on your own. The other thing I would love is tags. This is an old-school blogger thing. Sometimes people will be like, "Have you ever written about where to eat in Philadelphia?" And I'm like, "Yes I have, probably seven times." But then I'll go back and find which issues I did that in and send them the links. But it would be nice if I could just tag the link like Philly, New York, L.A., whatever, and then send them to that tag. So that would be a great product update if they're listening.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Well, if there are any Substack product managers listening. Before we talk more about your cooking classes and also just your journey in entrepreneurship, I really admire your wealth of New York City food spots. You're not just going to the classic whatever is trending that day on Instagram, but you're finding really cozy, really comfy, neighborhoody spots and fully patronizing them. So I'd like to hear what are three spots that are This Needs Hot Sauce certified.
Abigail Koffler:
Okay, thank you. You've clearly picked up that I love to be a regular, I love to go to my favorite spots.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Cheers.
Abigail Koffler:
Yeah, I'm like this is... I just find it so comforting. And I also love to support those businesses over and over again. So the first I'll say is Lighthouse, which is in Williamsburg. My boyfriend used to live right around the corner from there. So it was where we had our first official date. And the owners are so kind, the food is so good. They also just care so much about sustainability, which is really great. And I've been there with friends, family, with my boyfriend, by myself to read a book at the bar. You're never going to have a bad time. I would go for dinner, not brunch, but it's great. Get some oysters and the muscles are really good.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And their burger, iconic. I've had their burger so many times.
Abigail Koffler:
See, I remember I used to order from them during COVID when they were not open yet. We would go to the window and pick up a loaf of sourdough bread, a negroni in some random container. Then had them on a walk. This is giving me life these days. And then, okay, another spot I love it's now, I used to go to it a lot after therapy through my old therapist's office, but it used to be called Eisenberg's, it’s now SNP.
So I went there this past weekend and it's honestly better. We talked to the manager and she said that they're making a lot more stuff from scratch now. So she's been there through many decades. But yeah, I mean, I love diners. I think in Queens and a lot of places in the country, diners are an iconic childhood thing once you learn to drive to the diner. So yeah, I got to get my grilled cheese, a pickle, a coleslaw, and they're doing a great job. And I just love to see matzah ball soup and stuff being on menus at restaurants. That's another one I really love. Last spot. I will say this one is a happy hour back pocket spot that's convenient for everyone to get to, but I don't think it gets enough hype.
So Flex Mussels, they have two locations, but the one on 13th Street has an amazing happy hour. That's not just oysters, it's a whole menu. Salads, muscle pods, desserts, like everything. And it's the front room. So it's walk-in only, but it's a lot of space and it's just a lovely place to have dinner with a friend. You can get the muscles in different styles of broth, so you've got spicy tomato, classic, garlic, white wine, et cetera, and great salads. It's just a chill spot that checks all the boxes. It's not so hype-y or anything, but it's just good and cozy.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I love that. That's really awesome. So let's talk more about the other side of your food personality. You host cooking classes under Meal Prep Made Simple with your pal Erica Adler, and you launched those classes two years ago in 2021. What was the catalyst to enter your cooking class era?
Abigail Koffler:
It really was an era. So I actually minored in education in college and through that I did a lot of food-related programs. So we would go to different schools in Philly. I remember we did one that was teaching kids the alphabet through food. So it was like C is for carrot. That's the only one I remember. But hopefully we did more than that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, B for broccoli.
Abigail Koffler:
Yeah. Yeah, we went through, they were in kindergarten. It was very cute. So I always have loved teaching and I actually was teaching part-time up until June of last year. So I love teaching. And then I've been teaching on Zoom a little bit through my part-time job, but I was contacted by a company that no longer exists. So it was basically a platform to host cooking classes. And they were like, "Would you ever consider doing it? Blah, blah." I did a couple. And the first one, I set off my smoke alarm during because we were making garlic bread and it caught on fire and I had to mute myself, run, and open the window.
But I kept going. And a couple months in, I asked my friend Erica, she's gone to culinary school. She was a great personal chef. I was like, "Would you ever want to teach one together?" And that's how we started doing the meal prep classes. So basically we would prepare a menu that you could do in about two hours. It was usually five to six recipes always under a theme. And the goal was to really get people set up for the week. So we did them on Sunday afternoons. It was like a ‘say goodbye to Sunday scaries, let's get ready for the week.’ And especially during the earlier days of COVID, like we had a lot of people there from all over the country, sometimes in other countries, and people just wanted to spend some time in the kitchen, but without having to make so many decisions because I think that's something that can get really overwhelming for people.
But yeah, we've been teaching cooking classes now for over two years together. We both do some private classes on our own too. So we've done date night classes, dinner party classes. I've done some corporate ones. We do a good hour long appetizer-drink combo because not everyone wants to meal prep for two hours. So we really can make it flexible, but they're a lot of fun. And you also just get to see people. If someone's struggling to cut something, you can see in real time, oh, maybe they're using the wrong knife. Maybe they should angle it, you can actually look and help them, which is hard to do if you're just writing a recipe and you don't know what people are going to do.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Especially too during the pandemic, so many people had to come to terms with their relationship to food. I remember at one point I was even making spreadsheets for friends, being like, "Here's the most basic roast chicken recipe. Here's the most basic salad recipe."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You're the hero because people just had to cook.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, but the thing is, cooking is not intuitive. It takes a lot of foundational stuff that obviously a lot of folk pick up later in life. And especially when you spent so much of your time working where you're like, you got all your lunches catered and you're going out to dinner. While that's incredibly awesome to have, when you don't have that available, what are you going to do? How are you going to feed yourself?
Abigail Koffler:
Yeah, I mean, it's the New Yorker stereotype of using your oven to store shoes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Literally. Yeah, shout out Sarah Jessica Parker.
Abigail Koffler:
Yes. Love it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Are there any success stories or funny quips you had from when you were teaching?
Abigail Koffler:
It's really fun to see people just realize that they can make something that they never thought that they could make. We did a class, Erica and I, this past November for a corporate women's group, and we just made the puff pastry with brie and these cranberry-ginger spritzes and all the participants, some of them had their kids with them. It was just a really fun group. And they were just like, "I've seen this at parties and I just thought it was so complicated and we're making it right now and I can do this again and again." And I think that's just so rewarding to see whether it, "Oh, you actually making salad dressing from scratch."
I do that almost every class. Cause I think it's just such a good basic to have. I've seen people taste it and be like, "Oh my God, that was so good. That was so easy. Now I have this in my fridge, in a jar for whenever I need it." It's just so rewarding. So that's really fun. And then I love to see if people tag on Instagram that they're making something again from a class to know that the recipes and the methods outlived our Zoom time. That's really fun too.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. Vinaigrette, such a fancy name for an easy thing.
Abigail Koffler:
Shake that thing on my food.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. So you and Erica not just cooked together, but then you also launched a cookbook, which is I feel like a white whale for anyone in the food industry, whether it's published with a publication or anything. How did the idea from a cookbook come about?
Abigail Koffler:
Thank you. We're very excited about it. So we have been teaching classes together for over a year, and we just saw that as the world started to open back up again, people were not looking to spend as much time on Zoom, which is totally fair. But we were just like, "We want to share these ideas with a wider audience." So we had already created so many recipes because we would develop five to six every months. And we had taught 12, I don't know how many classes, a lot of classes. So we thought about how we could just package it in a different way. She had published some ebooks before, so she had that foundation of this is how we can structure it.
And we wanted to really focus on, we'll give you of course the meal prep recipes. There's five menus in the book, but we also wanted to just make it simple. And so you don't have to make a ton of decisions. So we call them game plans. So it's basically what order to do everything if you're cooking it all at once, because you always want to be multitasking if you're doing a meal prep. So it's like the oven's on, you're boiling water, and you're chopping something, like bam. So we lay that all out for you. Same with grocery lists, equipment lists. And then we also made remixes because, so if you don't want to eat the same thing over and over again, you can just rework it, turn it into a taco, turn into a fried rice, turn it into a pasta salad when it's whatever it is, you can just eat it in different ways.
So first we picked which menus we wanted to include. We did a photo shoot and then I think it was really helpful to work with a partner because Erica's a really talented photographer and graphic designer. So I took the lead on some of the head notes and the writing parts, and then she did the layout and design, and then we obviously edited each other's work and got some proofreaders from our own families to give it a once over or a four times over. It's V [version] 17, it was very much-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, it's like final, final, final.
Abigail Koffler
Yeah. Okay, we're good to go. And then yeah, we had to set up our ecommerce shop, which is the whole other aspect of it, figure out pricing, figure out how we wanted to market it. We had a little launch party and yeah, it's been really exciting. I think we still have some ideas of how we're going to share about it this year, but it's just been really nice to have something that you can have in perpetuity of, I think it's just a really useful resource for people. I've heard of people getting it for people for a holiday or for a birthday of like, "I need to get back into this. I haven't cooked in a couple months. I just need some ideas." And I think it really does that well, whether you want to do a full meal prep session or just get some ideas.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so exciting. And I think that's honestly the hardest part about cooking isn't even getting in the kitchen, it's knowing what to cook with.
Abigail Koffler:
I know, and sometimes there's too many ideas. I think with social media, I'll just be like, "That could be good, but I don't have that, but I don't..." I'm always-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I think I never cook the things I see on social media. It's just like whatever's in recipe books or in my head.
Abigail Koffler:
I did something that I actually saw on an Instagram reel this weekend. It was like chili crisp eggs with two layered hash browns from James Park who is writing a cookbook about chili crisps. So I was like, "I will trust him here."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow. Yeah.
Abigail Koffler:
Mine did not look as pretty as his, but it was really good.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's a great book. I feel like we've seen the rise of the chili crisps. I think Lao Gan Ma has got their own, Momofuku has got their own, Fly By Jing has got their own.
Abigail Koffler:
Yeah, and it's like a growing category for sure. I'm like-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I put it on everything. Yeah, that's awesome.
Abigail Koffler:
That's something people ask me. For hot sauce recommendations I'm always like, do you have any chili crisps there?
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, this needs chili crisps.
Abigail Koffler:
Yes. It's adjacent. Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Are there three recipes that you're really proud of from the cookbook that you want people to make?
Abigail Koffler:
Yeah, I mean you'll love the whole thing, but I brought some cookies today, which are the trail mix cookies. Eat them for breakfast. They have peanuts, raisins, and chocolate chips. You can skip the raisins or you can use raisins. And then we have a yogurt flatbread, which is great. You can use it in so many ways, as a pizza. We have it with a soup in the book. I've also cut it into little wedges for dips and even as a base for toast, I've seen people do it. And then Erica came up with this great pasta sauce that's buttery, and you can use heirloom tomatoes in the summer or canned tomatoes in the winter, and it just keeps really well, it's so silky. This is a bonus one. But she is so good at using pesto recipes like store bought pesto, so there's a great green salad with cucumbers, corn, and like a pesto vinaigrette that's really delicious for lunch.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I like that a lot. That's so exciting. And how about Meal Prep Made Simple in the next five to 10 years, how are you and Erica are hoping to grow that part of your partnership in that part of your business?
Abigail Koffler:
We are not sure how much meal prep we're going to do. We might take it in a slightly different direction because we feel like we have a lot of meal prep out there. So we've loved working together and I think we'll keep doing cooking classes together, and I think both of us just want people to feel more comfortable cooking and she especially is a really great entertainer. So I think it'll be really fun to do some events, IRL [in real life] and invite people into that world of a fun event where we can show you how to cook and set stuff up and just make it like a vibey fun, but not too complicated or intimidating.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. We love a vibe. We have a couple more fun Future Food Is You traditions. So we're going to start off with what we call our Future Flash Five. Picture 2050, picture the future. Here we go. The future of food writing.
Abigail Koffler:
Personal.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of New York City restaurants.
Abigail Koffler:
Hopefully more affordable, less bottle service.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of cooking.
Abigail Koffler:
Less meat.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of grocery stores.
Abigail Koffler:
Less plastic.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The last one, the future of food businesses.
Abigail Koffler:
Collaborative.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Amazing. Abigail, thank you so much for being on the podcast with us.
Abigail Koffler:
Thank you, this was so much fun.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
This was exciting. If we want to continue to support you, where are the best places to find you?
Abigail Koffler:
Absolutely. So you can find me at thisneedshotsauce.substack.com. That's the newsletter. I'm on Instagram @thisneedshotsauce. You can get the links and then you can buy Meal Prep Made Simple at abigailanderica.com.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Perfect. Thanks so much.
Abigail Koffler:
Thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Before we go, our guest is going to leave a voicemail at the Future Of Food mailbox just talking to themselves 10 years from now. You've reached the mailbox of the Future Of Food Is You podcast. Please leave a message after the beep.
Abigail Koffler:
Hi, friend. You're turning 40 this year and I hope your thirties were as good as everyone says they are, and that you like yourself and feel more comfortable in your skin than you did in your twenties. By now, I hope you have two kids and have published two books, including a book tour and that you're living in Brooklyn with your family and a kitchen island. And dare I say it, double sinks. It takes a village. So I hope our friends are still a short walk away, and you all hang out on weekdays to watch trashy TV, and cook dinner with some kids in town. If your kids are picky eaters, remember you used to be too. I hope you still make regular trips to California to soak up time with your family. You'll never regret getting on a plane to see them. You took a big gamble on yourself by going freelance, and I hope This Needs Hot Sauce has paid off in ways you can't even dream of at the moment.
Did you get to go to Italy? I really hope you have by now because I feel like you will love Italy and it's time to experience cacio e pepe and negronis in their original home. I hope you have found a pair of jeans that fits because we're currently on a hunt and it's not fun, and that you've turned down the volume on your anxiety. Instead of wondering how things will go wrong, ask yourself, “How can they go right?” I hope you're kind to yourself as life ebbs and flows. As our favorite therapist said, “There's no magic age where you suddenly figure it out, so we'll never stop learning and growing.”
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's it for today's show. Do you know someone who you think is the Future Of Food? Tell us about them. Nominate them at the link in our show notes. I can't wait to read more about them. Thanks to Kerrygold for sponsoring the show. Visit kerrygoldusa.com for more. The Future Of Food Is You is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Thanks to the team at CityVox Studios, executive producers Kerry Diamond and Catherine Baker, and associate producer Jenna Sadhu. Catch you on the future flip.