Amisha Gurbani Transcript
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi, peeps. You are listening to She's My Cherry Pie, the baking podcast from The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Jessie Sheehan. I'm a baker, recipe developer, and cookbook author, and my fourth book is coming out this fall. Each Saturday, I'm hanging out with the sweetest bakers around and taking a deep dive into their signature bakes.
My guest today is Amisha Gurbani, who you may know as @thejamlab on Instagram. She's a cookbook author, recipe developer, photographer, and computer engineer based in the Bay Area. Her debut cookbook, “Mumbai Modern,” was released in 2021 and is a celebration of Indian cuisine made for the American kitchen. Amisha also has a column in the food section of the San Francisco Chronicle. Amisha is passionate about unique flavor combinations and the recipe we're discussing today is a perfect example: chocolate and almond praline ice cream sandwiches. Yum. Visit cherrybombe.com for today's recipe and stay tuned for our chat.
Thank you to Grappa Nonino for supporting today's show. Grappa is a traditional Italian spirit made by distilling pumice, the skin seeds and stems of grapes left over from the wine making process. Generations have loved to sip grappa or use it in cocktails, and some even use grappa as an ingredient in baked goods and desserts. I've used bourbon, rum, and amaretto before, but never grappa. So the folks at Grappa Nonino challenged me to create some special treats with their award-winning Grappa varietals. I made a chocolate puddino with Nonino's Monovitigno Chardonnay grappa. The varietal's notes of bread, vanilla, and pastry paired so well with the chocolate. Nonino's Monovitigno Merlot grappa, with its notes of rose petal and cherry and its fruity finish, was the perfect addition to my ricotta cake with strawberries. A trifle is always a showstopper, so I made a raspberry trifle, but swapped out the traditional sherry for Grappa Nonino Monovitigno moscato. This varietal's floral, sage, thyme, and vanilla flavors were an ideal complement to the tart raspberries and sweet mascarpone cream. Nonino has been distilling grappa since 1897 and has been led by generations of amazing women. From Silvia Nonino, Italy's first female master distiller, to Silvia's three granddaughters who run the distillery today. Keep an eye on my Instagram, @jessiesheehanbakes, to learn and see just how I use Grappa Nonino in my baked goods and desserts and to get the recipes. You can also learn more about Grappa Nonino at grappanonino.it.
Peeps, have you heard the news? Cherry Bombe's first ever Jubilee Wine Country is happening in Napa Valley on October 26th and 27th. It'll be a weekend filled with great wine, winemakers, beautiful food, seasonal produce, conversation, connection, and California. Passes are now available. To learn more and snag a pass, visit cherrybombe.com. Let's check in with today's guest.
Amisha, so happy to have you on She's My Cherry Pie and to chat ice cream sandwiches with you and so much more.
Amisha Gurbani:
I'm so excited to be here, Jessie.
Jessie Sheehan:
You have said so beautifully that although Mumbai is your home city, really you were brought up in the kitchen, and I was hoping you could tell us about your earliest kitchen memory of holding your mom's saris in the wee hours of the morning and I want to know why it was so early. Can you tell us about that early memory of yours?
Amisha Gurbani:
So my mom's been my inspiration for cooking and that's how it all started, in the kitchen of my home in Mumbai. It's by the beach, Juhu Beach, and it's beautiful. You get a view of the Arabian Sea, it's gorgeous. She was an early riser and she loved getting everything done in the morning. The breakfast, lunch, was all done by 10:00 AM. She wanted to get things done very quickly. With all the noise in the kitchen, it's an apartment, so the noise travels. So I would wake up listening to all the sounds, the pressure cooker whistle going away. I would wake up and she would be cooking and I would be like, "Mom, what are you doing?" I was under 10 and I would hold her sari and I would be so interested in what she was doing, and this masala dabba with all the spices and she's making all these different things and I was very intrigued with all the smells, the sights, the sounds, and that's how I got into cooking. She was totally my inspiration. And the love she put into cooking, it resonated and that's how I got it.
Jessie Sheehan:
So you always helped your mom in the kitchen, playing with spices and flavors, and there was always something baking in your home as your mom not only loved dessert, but she had a degree in home science and so she knew how to bake so many different things, which wasn't very common in India in the 1980s. Can you tell us about the variety of things that you would make, both Western, Indian, all of it?
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah. So my mom actually was born in Uganda in Africa, because my grandparents had migrated to Africa in the 1940s for business reasons, and that's where my mom was born. So she was brought up by the people working there in the house with my grandmom and they would teach her baking. They taught my grandma baking and they taught my mom baking. So surprisingly, there's a recipe in my cookbook, “Mumbai Modern,” which is called My Mom's Famous Biscuits because that was her signature baking dish.
Because of the Idi Amin role in the 1970s, they had to go back to India on a ship and they carried a little oven which they had in Africa, which was the Siemens little oven. It was a stovetop oven, and they carried that back to Mumbai. And when my mom got married to my dad, she got that oven back to her house in Mumbai where I was born, and that's where she used to bake, in the little oven. And believe it or not, that oven lasted for about 80 years and then finally we had to give it up, but it lasted for a very, very long time. And she baked our birthday cakes in that, she baked lots of cookies in that. And we actually even, she had a small business where she was selling the cookies, too.
Jessie Sheehan:
So I know your mom, birthday cake she would make, but also like soufflés and biscuits or cookies and puddings and trifles. And I loved learning this, but there were never any measurements. You've described it as taste and go or everything was an approximation. Can you unpack that for us, how that works? And I also wondered, did that make it difficult for you when you became a recipe developer and you started, you're like, "Oh, I think I need to write this down."
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah. So she had a degree in home science and she learned soufflés, she learned how to make jams, she learned how to make shrubs, all of that, as she was studying for her home science degree. They had measurements, the baking ones had measurements, but again, it was not in grams like how we do now. It was more in a style of cups and a little bit more approximation. I don't know. She made it work and she was an expert at it.
And then there was the savory cooking, the Indian cooking, where she would not measure anything. She was just taking spoons, taking the masalas, and just dumping it into a pot with vegetables. And I'm like, "How much did you put of it?" And she says, "Put like a pinch of this, a pinch of that," and I'm like, "Mom, I can't do this. This is so difficult." And finally I caught onto it just observing her day by day and learning how she does it and I instilled that in me too. So when it came to recipe developing and when I got into food blogging and putting recipes online on my blog, it was difficult. It was very, very difficult. Especially writing Indian recipes and with proper measurements, it was very difficult.
Because I was used to doing the pinch and I go by taste. I taste a little bit and I'm like, "This has a little bit less of the garam masala. I need to add a little bit more to make it more tasty." So I had to improvise a lot and study a lot in terms of how much would make it a good dish. And it took a while to get used to that pattern and to be able to write the recipes and put them on the blog. So yes, it was a difficult process, but I eventually caught up to it just by practice.
Jessie Sheehan:
You leave Mumbai and you move to California to get a master's degree in computer science, yes?
Amisha Gurbani:
Correct.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then once your kids are born, you start a blog called The Jam Lab, and I loved learning this. The idea to start making jam, which is what you did first when you started The Jam Lab, was inspired by all the PB&J sandwiches that you were making for your preschool kids.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. Tell us about PB&J sandwiches for kids and then your little company.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah, my kids were two and four going to preschool. We were giving them lunches from home, saving money and making sure they're getting food from home. And one of their lunches used to be PB&J, peanut and butter and jelly sandwich. So simple, right? But I did not like the jams in the market. They was too sweet. The color was sort of dull, not bright like the fresh California fruits. And I was like, "I need to change this and I need to make jam at home."
So I started making jam at home and I'm like, "Look at the color of this jam. Why is it so different from the store-bought jams?" And I was like, "Okay, I'm going somewhere with this." Believe it or not, the first flavor I made was strawberry and chocolate jam, because my kids love strawberry and chocolate so I was like, "Okay, I'm going to put chocolate in the strawberry jam" and they loved it. They loved it. And imagine a strawberry chocolate jam with peanut butter in a sandwich. Delish.
Jessie Sheehan:
Can I just ask, were you using cocoa powder or were you using melted chocolate?
Amisha Gurbani:
I was using melted chocolate, just Ghirardelli melted chocolate chips, like Ghirardelli chocolate chips and just putting it in the jam, and it was amazing. It was a great touch to the jam and my kids loved it. And I started experimenting with all the different fruits at the farmer's market, peach jam and apricot jam. And kids generally at that age are fussy about the different fruits. They just want strawberry or raspberry because of the color, it's bright red. But they appreciated the peach jam, they loved the apricot jams, they loved the different fruit jams. I'm like, "This is going somewhere."
And that's how I started my company called The Jam Lab. I got my cottage industry license, and then I started selling jams on Etsy. I did that for a couple of years. I actually even did a few weddings to sell jam as wedding favors. My husband did all the branding design for the jam company and people used to really love the jams. And believe it or not, I never got a negative comment. Never.
Jessie Sheehan:
I believe it. Are you kidding? I believe it. And this was all at the same time that you had your full-time job?
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes, yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
I mean, you are amazing. And now you have a great kind of explanation for the name of your blog, although maybe it started because of the jam.
Amisha Gurbani:
Correct.
Jessie Sheehan:
Tell us about how you unpack the title now.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah, so it's Jam Lab. It started off because I was making jams, but the way I perceive it is lab is my kitchen and jamming is where I jam in the kitchen with experimenting with different flavors, different foods, with baking and cooking, and how I meld the flavors together. So Jam Lab is still valid.
Jessie Sheehan:
So I wonder how you would say that your dessert style has evolved since your jam-making days. I know your followers call you the Flavor Queen, which I love, and you've described flavor combinations with herbs and spices and fruit and cheese as being like your forte, but tell us how you think of your dessert style.
Amisha Gurbani:
I love combining flavors together. I'm just not happy with plain strawberry jam or a plain peach jam. I want to combine flavors together. And I think it adds a next-level elegance to the product or even to the dessert. Just for example, in my cookbook I have a jam which is an apricot and saffron jam. The saffron adds a depth of flavor to the apricot jam, and it's fantastic with cheese and crackers, and it's one of my favorite jams, actually. I have a cake recipe that I did for SF Chronicle as well, which is like a peach and saffron cake. And again, saffron adds a beautiful depth of flavor to the cake. It was one of my popular recipes when I had it published in the newspaper and on their website.
I love combining flavors together. I think it just takes it to the next level, and I've always gotten a lot of appreciation for it. It's not something that was commonly done, although I do see it happening more often now. But it's something, a concept that I came up when I started my jam company. I would combine peach and mint together, I would combine blood orange and rosemary together, again, another wonderful combination that goes well with cheese and crackers. So it just brings an element of a touch of savory to the sweet, which I love.
Jessie Sheehan:
Your book, “Mumbai Modern,” you call it your pandemic baby, and it's vegetarian recipes that are inspired by your Indian roots and California cuisine, and it's also dedicated to your mom. I know that you promised her that you would write a cookbook one day with her recipes in it. Can you unpack how Indian roots and California cuisine intersect? I know it's personal to you, but I also was thinking you write a lot about the way that you ate seasonally in India with your mom when you were little and that that sort of is just how you eat now.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah, yeah. You're absolutely right. I grew up with a lot of fresh vegetables. We ate seasonally in
Mumbai. My mom used to go to the so-called farmer's market, because it's there 24/7, 365 days of a year, it's just there. So you go to the vendor, you get whatever you want, and she would go almost every second or third day and I would go along with her to pick the fresh vegetables, whatever was in season. So we ate fruits in season, we ate vegetables in season, for example. Strawberries come in season in Mumbai in the winter months, believe it or not. Yeah, it's strange, right? So it's actually in season December and January, that's when we ate strawberries, and then we didn't eat strawberries at all until the following year.
So I did grow up eating seasonally, making stuff seasonally, and that instilled in me the love for fruits and vegetables and to eat what's in season because that's when it tastes the best. And then I came to California and I was introduced to the farmer's markets and I'm like, "This is great. This is great. I don't have to go to the grocery store for fruits and vegetables that may not taste right when they're off season." For example, tomatoes. In the winter, they just don't taste right. I still get them because I need it for my cooking, but they just don't taste the same way as they do when they are in season in summer. And I wanted to incorporate fresh fruits and vegetables as part of my brand, my aesthetic, my blog, my cookbook, and that's where Mumbai Modern comes into picture. It's like recipes that I'm bringing from Mumbai with a flair and touch of California incorporating in season produce, the amazing bounty that we are thankful for, and incorporating that in my dishes for my family.
Jessie Sheehan:
We'll be right back.
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Okay, now I want to dive into your delicious recipe for chocolate and almond praline ice cream sandwiches. I know that Sundays were ice cream days when you were little. Can you tell us about where your dad would take you and what you guys would get?
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah. So every Sunday was ice cream day. My mom was very strict about when we would eat desserts. Saturday was a chocolate day when she would give us chocolate, and Sunday was ice cream day, and that's how we grew up. It was limiting the sugar and just making sure we are healthy. She would give us ice cream sometimes if we are good during the week, but it was again, her mood-dependent.
So Sunday, dad would take us after dinner to eat ice cream. It was family time together, and he would take us for a drive in the car, a nice long drive. On the way back, we would stop by at this place, which had a row of ice cream shops, like two or three ice cream shops, and we would pick and choose. Sometimes it was like a mango lolly or a raspberry lolly. There were limited flavors at that time, I mean in the 1980s. So there were limited flavors and that's what we would get.
There was another place which was Naturals Ice Cream. We loved it. It was a new concept that had come into place and they would make fresh fruit ice creams. Again, whatever's in season. So there would be like lychee ice cream, there would be mango ice cream in the mango season, strawberry ice cream in the strawberry season. It was just one flavor, but so good. It was fruit-potent and absolutely delicious and creamy with all the milk from the cows, but fantastic ice cream.
There was a flavor which we particularly liked, my brother and I, which was the Choco Almond. It was delicious. It was just chocolate ice cream with these toasted almond pieces so when you bite into the ice cream, you could hear the crunch of the almonds, they were so crisp. And that was the flavor that we most of the times ended up getting when we went to Naturals Ice Cream. Not the fresh fruit flavors, but Choco Almond because that's what my brother and I loved, and that was the inspiration for these ice cream sandwiches.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. And I learned reading the book that India is actually known for its almonds and they taste uniquely delicious.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes, yes. Just like California is known for the almonds, India is known for the almonds too. They're smaller in size than the California ones, and they do taste a little bit different too. And of course when they're toasted, they're absolutely crunchy and scrumptious.
Jessie Sheehan:
This particular ice cream sandwich, the first thing we're going to do is we're going to make the cookie part of the sandwich, and the cookie is sort of your house chocolate chip cookie as it were, it's the one you make for your family. And it's a chocolate chip and toasted almond cookie. First things first, in a medium bowl, and I wonder, do you like glass bowls at home or metal bowls at home and is there a brand you like?
Amisha Gurbani:
I just use melamine bowls. I have a standard set of bowls, I got it as part of my wedding registry.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, nice.
Amisha Gurbani:
I still use those.
Jessie Sheehan:
So in a medium bowl, we're going to whisk all-purpose flour, bread flour, baking soda, baking powder, table salt, and cinnamon. And I had a couple of questions. Is there a kind of whisk or a brand of whisk or a type of whisk that you like to use, either a balloon whisk or something else?
Amisha Gurbani:
A balloon whisk.
Jessie Sheehan:
You like a balloon.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes, balloon whisk.
Jessie Sheehan:
In case listeners don't know, explain why you're adding some bread flour to your chocolate chip cookie.
Amisha Gurbani:
It's to add girth to the cookie. It gives it that structure. I love bread flour. Adding a little bit of bread flour to the cookie, I think it just adds a little bit of depth to it.
Jessie Sheehan:
And is there a brand of flours, of the all-purpose and bread flour that you like?
Amisha Gurbani:
I use Bob's Red Mill, all the way through.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then how about the table salt? Is there a brand of that, and do you ever use kosher?
Amisha Gurbani:
No, I don't use kosher. The reason I use table salt, and people may not like this answer, but I love that it's salty. It's really salty, and it gives the cookie a good balance of flavors with the sugar that you're adding because you're adding white sugar and you're adding brown sugar, so the salt adds a little bit of balance to the flavors.
Jessie Sheehan:
And there's also cinnamon in your dry ingredients. What does the cinnamon add to the cookie?
Amisha Gurbani:
I love the floral taste of cinnamon. I think cinnamon and almonds go hand-in-hand. They're a fantastic combination together, and that's why I add cinnamon, I just love it. I sometimes actually substitute even cinnamon with cardamom. It's all mood-dependent on what I'm feeling that day. So sometimes I substitute the cinnamon with freshly ground cardamom and it's fantastic.
Jessie Sheehan:
In the bowl of a stand mixer with the paddle attachment and on low speed, we're going to mix up some unsalted room temp butter and some brown and granulated sugars. Then we're going to increase the speed to the maximum, to high speed, and let this mixture go for about three minutes until it's white and fluffy. And then with a spatula, we're going to clean the sides of the bowl and sort of gather the mixture in the middle. So two questions. One, is there a particular brand of spatula that you love? And then also, why do you gather it in the middle? Is that just your way of describing that it's not on the sides or is that sort of a Amisha trick that we all need to know?
Amisha Gurbani:
The spatula is GIR, and Williams & Sonoma, I have both of those. I have a lot of their spatulas, so that's what I use. And gathering ingredients in the middle because from experience, I've been baking for a very long time, what I noticed when I started baking is that there would be all this wet mixture touching the bowl, and when you put the flour, it still doesn't gather, the paddle attachment doesn't gather all the wet mixture. So you get this lump of dry mixture in the middle and all this wet mixture, which has not been incorporated into the dry mixture and it results in an uneven dough. So to make it even and homogeneous, I collect the wet dough, which is stuck to the mixing bowl with the spatula to bring it into the center so that it's a homogeneous dough.
Jessie Sheehan:
And now we're going to mix in some room temperature eggs, one at a time. Are we on low speed at this point?
Amisha Gurbani:
Low speed still, yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then we're going to mix in vanilla extract as well as almond. And why the almond extract? Is that just to sort of bring to-
Amisha Gurbani:
Enhance the flavor of the cookie. Because I'm like, okay, the almonds provide the crunch, but the almond extract provides the taste, the deep taste.
Jessie Sheehan:
Then we're going to add our dry ingredients in two installments at low speed until just combined. We're going to mix in some bittersweet and some semi-sweet chocolate chunks or chips. And I wondered, do you have a preference as to whether we're chopping our chocolate or using chips, and also what brand?
Amisha Gurbani:
No, I don't have a preference. Again, it's very preferential depending upon the person that's making the cookie. I like it chopped because I want some smaller pieces which melt so well into the cookie and then the bigger chunks which I can bite into, and that's why I like the chunks. But if you just want uniformity, like my kids, they actually make this cookie all the time and they just put the chocolate chips because it's easier for them. They don't want to go through the effort of chopping the cookie. So they're like, "Okay, we're just going to use chocolate chips." I use Ghirardelli for the chocolate chips, and if it's a chopping block I use Valrhona.
Jessie Sheehan:
Valrhona, yes. And then you like the two different chocolates just for a little bit of contrast?
Amisha Gurbani:
There's a reason for that. If it was me, if it was only me eating the chocolate chip cookie, it would just be bittersweet. But it's because my kids are eating the cookie, too. And my husband. They love milk chocolate. They don't want me to put any of the bittersweet chocolate. So I'm like, "Okay, you get a little bit of what you want and I get a little bit of what I want," and that's why I add both of them. But it adds dexterity to the cookie too.
Jessie Sheehan:
I hate to say it, but I'm like your husband and kids. I want milk chocolate. Maybe not in my cookie, but if I'm going to eat a bar of chocolate, I want it to be milk chocolate. And then we're also going to add some chopped toasted almonds. And then we're going to divide our dough in half, we're going to wrap each half in plastic, chill for three hours, but up to 24 hours. And you have a great tip, if we're not baking right away, we're going to scoop our cookies, place them close together in a parchment-lined baking sheet, and then freeze them for about an hour and then transfer to a Ziploc bag. So does that mean that at this stage, the dough is now firm enough to scoop? You just wouldn't want to bake it off at this point, but you can scoop it?
Amisha Gurbani:
You can scoop it and, well, if you cannot wait, you could bake it off, too.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Do you have people wait because you want the gluten to develop and you want it to be chewier or because it's easier to bake if they're chilled?
Amisha Gurbani:
Both of them, actually. It's easier to bake if they're chilled, as well as to develop the gluten. And I love a good, nice, chewy cookie in the center with the crispy edges. That's how I love it.
Jessie Sheehan:
So now once the dough is chilled, we're going to heat our oven to 350, we'll let the dough rest for about 10 minutes, and then on two parchment-lined baking sheets for these particular ice cream sandwiches, we're going to scoop two tablespoon dough balls evenly placed, like eight or 10 per sheet. Then we're going to scoop them so one side is still going to be flat from the scoop, but now we're going to roll them between in our palms to form a ball.
So I had a couple of questions. Do they bake more uniformly if they don't have that flat side from the scoop? Is that why we're rolling them in our hands to make them into a circle?
Amisha Gurbani:
For uniformity, yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
So I wonder... Yes, I see. So you feel like if you roll them in your hands, they'll be more uniform than if you just leave them like that with the flat side.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes. Because where you scoop and put it, there may be some little gaps in the scooper and the cookie may not be even, and I'm trying to make the ice cream sandwiches and I want them to look uniform and so that's why I just roll it so it's all uniform.
Jessie Sheehan:
Perfect. And then the reason you flatten, because we don't roll, put on the tray, and bake, we then flatten the ball. Is that because if we didn't flatten, the cookie wouldn't actually spread very much and so we want to get it started ahead of time?
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes. Yeah, yeah. And then also when you bite into the ice cream sandwich, you don't want a dome shape on the top. You want it to be slightly flat just so that it can fit in your mouth.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. That's important. And now, are we going to sprinkle some flaky sea salt on top of these at this point?
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
And do you have a brand that you like?
Amisha Gurbani:
I use Maldon sea salt, always.
Jessie Sheehan:
So now we're going to bake on the bottom and middle racks of the oven. And I just wondered, why do we not want to be at the top of the oven?
Amisha Gurbani:
They bake slowly on the top of the oven. So I want the heat, I want them to spread and be perfect.
Jessie Sheehan:
We're going to bake for 12 to 13 minutes. And you write that we're going to flip the sheets halfway through. Do you mean sort of rotating?
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Like placing the one that's on the bottom to the middle and the one that's on the middle to the bottom?
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then when we remove them from the oven, I feel like this is a little Sarah Kieffer trick, but maybe you came up with the idea too, but we're going to take those cookie sheets and we're going to bang them on the calendar.
Amisha Gurbani:
Oh, it's a Sarah Kieffer trick. She's awesome.
Jessie Sheehan:
She's amazing. We're going to bang the sheets two to three times to sort of flatten the cookies. And it's funny, I don't pan bang, but I will take my spatula as soon as my cookies come out and flatten each one.
Amisha Gurbani:
Oh, that's a good idea, too. I love that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, because I hate a lumpy cookie.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah, me too.
Jessie Sheehan:
I like a flat cookie, yeah.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah, I love that idea.
Jessie Sheehan:
Thank you. So then you're going to use your spatula, though, to kind of nudge the cookies from all sides to kind of make them round.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Or we're going to grab an Erin Cloudy Kitchen tip and take a large biscuit cutter or round cookie cutter and kind of scoot that around our cookie to make it round.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes, absolutely.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love both of those. I know we both know Becky from DisplacedHousewife.
Amisha Gurbani:
Oh, she's amazing.
Jessie Sheehan:
And Becky always... She is. She always uses a spatula.
Amisha Gurbani:
She uses a spatula. That's where I learned the trick from her to use a spatula to give it that round shape. And again, it's all mood-dependent, how I'm feeling that day. And if I have more patience, then I will use a spatula. If I don't have patience, I'll just use the cookie round cutter to scoot it out.
Jessie Sheehan:
And it's nice when the cookies, I'm sure the listeners know this, but when the cookies are that soft and warm right out of the oven, they're still a little malleable. Yeah, but I feel like you have to move quickly. Because sometimes I start on one cookie and by the time I get to the 12th cookie on the tray, it does not want to move as much.
Amisha Gurbani:
They're already cooled quite a bit.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we're going to let the cookies cool for 10 minutes on the baking sheets, then transfer to a wire rack and cool completely while we go ahead and make our praline and our ice cream. So we're going to make some almond praline, which go inside of these ice cream sandwiches. So we're going to line a baking sheet. The dimensions you give are a little smaller than a standard baking sheet. This is more almost like a jelly roll pan or something?
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah, it's just a small pan because the quantity is not much. So I mean, if you don't have, you can just use what you have on hand. Yeah, just use what you have on hand. But I just prefer using a smaller one because I have it.
Jessie Sheehan:
So if we're going to line a small baking sheet, if you have it, with parchment paper and then in a small saucepan. And I wanted to ask, do you have a brand of saucepans that you like?
Amisha Gurbani:
I use Calphalon a lot.
Jessie Sheehan:
In a small saucepan, we're going to cook some granulated sugar over medium heat until melted, which will take about three minutes. And then without stirring, we'll swirl our pan just until the sugar is like a golden caramel color. Is this another three minutes or is this longer?
Amisha Gurbani:
It happens very quickly. It happens very quickly, so you have to watch out for it. Once the sugar is melted, it changes color very quickly, so you cannot just go away somewhere and come back and expect... It'll be burnt by then.
Jessie Sheehan:
So now we're going to add toasted sliced almonds. So is this different than the one in the cookies? Are these thinner almonds than the ones we chopped for the cookies?
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes. Yeah, because it goes into the ice cream, so you want to be able to, when you bite into it, it should not feel too gritty.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we add our toasted sliced almonds and we're going to stir them into the sugar. What's our tool at this point? A spatula or wooden spoon?
Amisha Gurbani:
Spatula.
Jessie Sheehan:
Spatula. So we'll stir until the almonds are coated, and then I have done this in my lifetime, so I understand how quickly you need to move, but you need to move very quickly, pour the mixture onto your sheet, and then use your spatula to spread it thin. And then cool, and then chop. And when you chop with a sharp knife, is it a chef's knife that you like?
Amisha Gurbani:
Chef's knife.
Jessie Sheehan:
Now we're going to make our chocolate almond praline ice cream. So we're going to place a strainer over a medium bowl and then we're also going to have ready a large bowl with some ice and some water. And in a medium saucepan on medium heat, we're going to stir whole milk, heavy cream, cocoa powder, granulated sugar, stir that up, and then cook it until it reaches about 175 degrees. And I had a couple of questions. First of all, in ice cream, do you think it's important to always have a mixture of milk and heavy cream? Do you ever just use milk or just use heavy cream?
Amisha Gurbani:
The heavy cream gives depth and texture and it removes the icy particles when you put the heavy cream in the mixture. And I think that's important because I want a smooth ice cream. I don't want to have icy particles in my mouth. I'm very picky that way about ice cream because I love ice cream. Actually, it's one of my favorite desserts. So I add heavy cream.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then the cocoa powder, I wondered the brand and I also wondered if it's Dutch processed or if it's natural?
Amisha Gurbani:
Dutch-processed. And I use Rodelle.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love Dutch-processed, because I love that dark, dark color. It's so beautiful.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes, yes. And it's tasty.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we're going to stir all of this together until it reaches about 175. And while it's coming to temp, we're going to vigorously whisk egg yolks and granulated sugar in another bowl until pale yellow and ribbony. Can you describe what the ribbons are that we're looking for?
Amisha Gurbani:
It should be almost like a lava flow. When you whisk it and you pick up the whisk, it should just flow very, very naturally and very smoothly. And the reason is you want to make sure it's a pale yellow and that helps with the texture of the ice cream, as well. So that's why you want to make sure that it's well-incorporated. The reason you're beating the egg yolks and the sugar is you want to firstly get it to that consistency, secondly is you want to make sure that all the sugar is dissolved into the mixture.
Jessie Sheehan:
I've also heard with ribbons, it's the kind of thing where you lift the whisk and you should almost see the mixture kind of float down on itself into the bowl and leave a mark and then it disappears.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah, yeah. It's like a wavy texture when you lift the balloon whisk and it's just a wavy texture and it just gets into the bowl very quickly.
Jessie Sheehan:
So now we're going to whisk half of our warm milk and cream mixture into our beaten yolks, like about a half cup at a time. We're basically tempering-
Amisha Gurbani:
Tempering the egg yolk mixture.
Jessie Sheehan:
Tempering the egg yolks, and then we're going to whisk the milk-yolk mixture back into the warm milk on the saucepan, set that over medium heat, and cook with a wooden spoon. And I love this, you give us so many indicators of what we're looking for. We want to do this with a wooden spoon until steam appears, foam subsides, mixture is slightly thickened, and the temp is between 180 to 185 degrees. I think that is so helpful when recipe writing to remember that it's helpful to give more than one indication of what the reader or the home cook or the home baker is looking for.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah, because you want the reader to be able to get the texture. Like, what are you looking for, the color? If there's a sort of smell that you're looking for, you should be able to describe a smell that they're expecting. Because those are, like you said, indicators to the reader or to the person who's making the recipe that, okay, these are the things I need to look for and I can move forward. If you just say that, okay, it needs to reach a temperature of 180 degrees, it doesn't tell me much.
Jessie Sheehan:
I agree. I also when I make a custard, I use the wooden spoon and I do the trick where you draw your finger along the wooden spoon and if the line that your finger made stays, then you know the custard's done.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes. And I think I missed that point in the cookbook.
Jessie Sheehan:
Well, you have so many others, we don't need it. And we want to be careful, obviously, that we don't boil this mixture because then our eggs will curdle.
Amisha Gurbani:
Right.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we're going to immediately strain our custard into our medium bowl, and then that ice bath that we had set up, we're going to place it in there and just cool the custard to room temp stirring occasionally, and then we'll add some vanilla extract or vanilla paste. Now I wondered, I don't usually do an ice bath when I make ice cream. I do let it come to room temp. Do you think the ice bath is necessary? I'm sure it helps because it speeds along the cooling process.
Amisha Gurbani:
It's speeds, yeah, yeah. I think it mainly speeds the process and then once it's cooled down, I can put it into the fridge and let it cool. It's mainly for speeding up the process because I have the ice cream maker already chilling in the fridge from the day before, and my kids are impatient.
Jessie Sheehan:
So while the custard cools in a small double boiler, which is basically a small bowl over a small saucepan of simmering water, we're going to melt some chocolate chips, some whole milk and some cayenne pepper. That's for a little spicy kick?
Amisha Gurbani:
Just a little kick, yes. Oh, chocolate and cayenne, I mean, it's a match made in heaven, so it has to go together.
Jessie Sheehan:
We'll mix those things together until the mixture is smooth and the chocolate's melted, and then we add this melted chocolate into the custard. So this chocolate ice cream not only has Dutch-processed cocoa powder, but it also has melted chocolate.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes, yes. It enhances the flavor of chocolate. And it makes it deep.
Jessie Sheehan:
To do both?
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes. Yeah, you get this deeper chocolate flavor, which I love.
Jessie Sheehan:
Kind of like with brownies, a lot of people will put both Dutch-processed cocoa powder and melted chocolate into the brownies.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes, same concept.
Jessie Sheehan:
And even chocolate cake. Are we adding the melted chocolate once the custard is cool, or are both items kind of warm when they're mixed together?
Amisha Gurbani:
That's a good question. I think they're both warm slightly, like not completely cold. It actually doesn't matter because you're finally adding the chocolate, even if it's at room temperature, you cannot keep it cold because the chocolate is just going to solidify. So you want to make sure that the custard is at room temp at the most and not chilled, and then mix the chocolate mixture.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we'll whisk to combine and then we'll cover, refrigerate for at least six hours or up to 24 hours. Why? Why can't we just pull it out when it's cold? Why do we need to wait?
Amisha Gurbani:
I think it all depends when your ice cream maker is ready, firstly. Secondly, the mixture has to be cold, like cold, when you put it into the ice cream maker for the ice cream to form. And you just follow the ice cream maker's instructions, and usually they recommend six to 24 hours of chilling time for the custard.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay, so now we're going to grease, I think you say an 8x13-inch baking pan, and we're going to line it with enough parchment so it kind of goes over the edges because we're going to be lifting out some ice cream that we're going to be placing in this pan. So I had a question. Are we talking about a 9x13 brownie pan situation or are we talking about more like a sheet pan, like a cookie sheet?
Amisha Gurbani:
Whatever you have on hand. It doesn't make a difference.
Jessie Sheehan:
But does it matter the height of the pan? Because, do you know what I mean? We don't want one inch, we need a pan with high enough edges to hold the ice cream that we're going to put in.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Is that correct?
Amisha Gurbani:
So again, it very much depends on what you have on hand. I don't want people to go out and buy stuff just for one recipe. So if you have a sheet pan, you could make thinner ice cream sandwiches and you could put the rest of the ice cream in a tub to eat it at another time. Or if you have a brownie pan, 9x13 pan, you could just put the ice cream in there and you would just get like a higher-heighted ice cream in that case.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we have our prepared pan. Now we're going to churn our custard in our ice cream machine. Do you have a favorite brand?
Amisha Gurbani:
Cuisinart, that's the one I use.
Jessie Sheehan:
Until the mixture resembles soft-serve ice cream, which is my favorite, which is about 25 minutes. And is that not fully churned or basically are we making it until it's ice cream? Is your indicator to us that it should resemble soft serve, does that mean we're pulling it from the machine a teeny bit early?
Amisha Gurbani:
No, you just do it per the manufacturer's instructions. It's 25 minutes. You make the ice cream, churn it for that time. It'll never solidify, so you need to put it into the freezer to solidify.
Jessie Sheehan:
I can't tell a lie, sometimes I eat it straight from the machine.
Amisha Gurbani:
Oh, I do that too.
Jessie Sheehan:
When it's still soft-serve. I don't even want it... I prefer it soft.
Amisha Gurbani:
Me too. Me too. I'm with you, Jessie.
Jessie Sheehan:
I know. I mean, it's ice cream sandwich, different situation. But if I'm just making ice cream, I'm just like there.
Amisha Gurbani:
Me too. I love it. It's the best texture.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my god. I think I have to make it this weekend, I'm so hungry. Okay, so this I love, this is such a cool thing to do, I think. So we're going to transfer half of the ice cream into the prepared pan. We're going to spread it with a small offset spatula. Do you have a favorite brand of offset that you like?
Amisha Gurbani:
Believe it or not, I just got it from Target.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, I believe it. We're going to spread the ice cream with a small offset. Now we're going to sprinkle the almond praline on top of the ice cream covering it, then we're going to add the remaining ice cream on top and flatten the entire surface with the offset, press our plastic wrap onto the surface, and freeze the ice cream until firm, at least four hours. Fascinating. So why are we doing this? Is it so that the ice cream is in that flat shape and so that the praline is just in that middle layer? Because I would think you would take your ice cream, scoop it, put it on your cookie and press.
Amisha Gurbani:
Ice cream sandwiches are such a versatile thing. You could do it however you want. I have recommended this way because I'm a perfectionist and I love things very symmetrical and looking very perfect when I'm serving it to people. But you know, you could just put it in a tub, put the ice cream in a tub, use a scoop, put it on a cookie, and serve it that way too.
Jessie Sheehan:
I'm not as much of a perfectionist as you, but what I loved about this is I almost wondered if it's easier. The ice cream's already thin because it's spread out, so it's going to definitely chill faster. And I love the idea. Like I would've thought we would've been folding that praline into the ice cream, which you probably would if you were just eating the ice cream. But I love the idea of that middle layer so it's like ice cream, crunchiness, ice cream.
Amisha Gurbani:
Because when you take the whole sandwich, you get a bite of like, everything. It's like a party in the mouth.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh. I love that. I think it's a really smart way of even ice cream that you wouldn't-
Amisha Gurbani:
That's what I do with like, a lot of different ice cream sandwiches that I make, I just put it on a sheet pan, first as perfectionist and then second is it makes for easy scooping, as well because I use a cookie cutter to scoop it out. I use one of those biscuit cutters, actually. Because it scoops it out, and then you can just push it with your thumb onto the cookie.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we're going to assemble the sandwiches. We'll have ready a parchment-lined baking sheet. We're going to use our offset to loosen the ice cream from the edges of its pan, and then we'll use that parchment paper sling to remove our ice cream, place the slab onto a cutting board, and then with a 2.25-inch round biscuit cutter, we're going to cut out a round of ice cream, we're going to invert half our cookies so the flat side is facing up, and we'll use our offset to remove our ice cream round from the slab, place it on the flat surface of the cookie, gently place the same sized cookie on top, and gently press to adhere the ice cream to the cookies, and then transfer to our prepared sheet. Now we're going to repeat with the rest of the ice cream. Is the reason we don't cut them all right away is because it will get too melty?
Amisha Gurbani:
Melty. Yes, yes, it gets too melty.
Jessie Sheehan:
It's better to keep it in one big slab and do one at a time.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yes, one at a time, because it just melts. We generally make ice cream sandwiches in the summer, it's super hot, and the ice cream just melts quickly. I have to turn on the AC.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, you repeat quickly, and if the ice cream starts to melt, then place the slab back into the sheet pan or pan and freeze for an hour and then start again. Then we take all of our sandwiches and we're going to freeze them in the freezer for about an hour. There's an optional chocolate coating on the ice cream sandwich, and that's melting dark chocolate. Are you dipping like, half of the sandwich in?
Amisha Gurbani:
I'm dipping half of the cookie in the mixture, in the melted chocolate, and it's so good. And then just freeze it again and it's perfect.
Jessie Sheehan:
Do you freeze and then dip and then freeze again? You can't dip.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah, freeze, dip. Because again, it melts so fast in the summer, so that's why I like to freeze.
Jessie Sheehan:
So you need a frozen, yep.
Amisha Gurbani:
Yeah. Because again, the melted chocolate is slightly warm and it'll start melting the ice cream, too.
Jessie Sheehan:
Almost right away. Yeah, that sounds so delicious. Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today, Amisha, and I just want to say that you are my cherry pie.
Amisha Gurbani:
Oh, thank you so much, Jessie, for having me on this podcast. It was an honor to talk to you.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's it for today's show. Thank you to Nonino and California Prunes for supporting this episode. Don't forget to subscribe to She's My Cherry Pie on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and tell your baking pals about us. Visit cherrybombe.com for today's recipe. She's My Cherry Pie is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network and is recorded at CityVox Studio in Manhattan. Our producers are Kerry Diamond, Catherine Baker, and Elizabeth Vogt. Our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu, and our content and partnerships manager is Londyn Crenshaw. Thank you so much for listening to She's My Cherry Pie, and happy baking.