Bertha González Nieves Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe magazine.
I'm excited to welcome today's guest back to the pod, it's Bertha González Nieves, one of my favorite entrepreneurs. If you're a founder, brand expert, aspiring entrepreneur, or all of the above, you don't want to miss my chat with Bertha. She's the co-founder and CEO of Casa Dragones, the luxury tequila company that so many folks are obsessed with. She joins me to talk about lots of things, including the life-changing power of networking. Bertha is proof that you might want to chat with a person standing next to you because you never know what might come from that conversation. She shares her thoughts on building a brand, and paying attention to details, and why entrepreneurship requires equal amounts of passion, determination, and naïveté. We also chat about the Casa Dragones Tasting Room at the Fontainebleau in Las Vegas that will open later this year, in conjunction with the first US outpost of Gabriela Cámara's Contramar. Gabi and Bertha, how's that for a dynamic duo? Stay tuned for our chat.
Today's show is presented by Kerrygold. Kerrygold is the iconic Irish brand famous for its beautiful cheese and butter made with milk from Irish grass-fed cows. I am a Kerrygold super fan, and I had the good fortune to travel to Ireland with the Kerrygold team a few years ago. I met farmers, cheese makers, the folks who inspect the butter and grade the cheese, and I even met the cows. It was an unforgettable trip, and I loved getting to know more about the world of Kerrygold. I learned the differences between the Kerrygold cheeses, and I'm going to share some of my favorites with you. There's Kerrygold aged cheddar, classic, and rich. Kerrygold Reserve Cheddar is sharp and bold, thanks to an extra year of aging. Kerrygold Dubliner is a robust aged cow's milk cheese that's nutty, sharp and sweet all at once. Then there's Kerrygold Skellig, which is tangy and crumbly with a butterscotch-like sweetness. One more to shout out, Kerrygold Cashel Blue Farmhouse Cheese, it's a perfect blue in my book, with that signature creaminess and tang. I love it for everything from snacking to salads. I highly recommend visiting Ireland, but you don't need a trip to Ireland to figure out your favorite Kerrygold cheese. Just a trip to your local supermarket, gourmet shop or cheese shop. Visit kerrygoldusa.com to learn more about Kerrygold's iconic cheese varieties, to browse recipes, and to find a store near you.
Now, let's check in with today's guest. Bertha Gonzáles Nieves, welcome back to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Thank you so much, so excited to be here.
Kerry Diamond:
What the heck is going on in the tequila world? It seems like every week there's new tequila.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Yeah, definitely the category is seeing this incredible renaissance. It's been a very active category since I participated in it. I entered into the category in 1998, and you've always seen this incredible richness in participation, and also a revolving door. A lot of people come in, and a lot of people don't stay in, so I think that it's hand in hand with the interest of the consumer, and the interest in agave spirits in general, which is beautiful to see. I think we're at the tip of the iceberg. I really believe that if we do things right, we invest in development of all agave spirits in general.
Today, we only have five appellations of origin of agave spirits in Mexico, and we have no more than 20 appellations of origin, if you can believe that. We should have many more. We should be compared to Spain or to France, but if we do things right, there's 200 different types of agave in Mexico cataloged. Mexico has the ideal temperature, the ideal soil combination, rainfall, altitude for these plants to really flourish, and I think that together with the interest of the consumer and spirits in general, and then made in Mexico products, I think the magic of the spirit is finally being appreciated for its craft. I think that's really catapulted the interest both from businesses, from a lot of diversity of people that are investing into the category.
Kerry Diamond:
I feel like you got in this to elevate the category. You saw some white space and thought that tequila deserved better.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
I came into the tequila category, into it out of passion. I was selected by the Japanese government to represent Mexico in a program in Japan in my early 20s, and I had to travel all over Mexico, and one of the stops was to go to Tequila, Jalisco for three days. I became enamored by the industry, by its production process, by the beauty and the romanticism of the fields. Then I had to go to Japan and be with 14 or 15 different countries, and seeing how people see Mexico in a lot of different windows, in one of the windows they see Mexico through the eyes of tequila. Then I had the opportunity to find a job in the tequila industry, and from that moment on, every day I wanted more. Every day my passion and my intellect was completely absorbed by the beauty of the industry, and since then I haven't stopped.
So by the time I became an entrepreneur, that white space that you referred to, it really is the opportunity of this is a category that has more than 250 years of best practices. I mean, we are ourselves, the people that participate today in the category, we're standing in the shoulders of giants. I mean, if all these Mexican business people, and crafts people wouldn't have dedicated the years they have, we wouldn't be able to be having these conversations. But for us, is that we believe that, number one, there's no reason why tequila shouldn't have a fair share of the luxury segment of the spirits industry. I think that the great spirits of France, and England, and Italy, and so on can have a base for the luxury business, and they respect already globally. In Mexico, we still have to gain that respect, even though for those who have traveled all over Mexico, understand that Mexico has that elegance, that sophistication, more important, that craftsmanship.
So for us, we believe we can get a fair share of the luxury segment of the spirits industry, while showcasing the beauty, and the strength, and the craftsmanship of Mexico's people. We want to leave the category in a more advanced place where we found it for younger generations. We participated in creating the first university course, it's called Técnico Tequilero, to train people in a distillery, in all of the different aspects for it to become later a master's degree. That's one action. The second action is going on true explorations. We became entrepreneurs to be explorers, number one, and of course if we're explorers and bring great products, we can build a great business. But first and foremost, is really bringing newness to the category, having the opportunity to explore, and having the opportunity to continue to surprise and enamor that tequila lover, and why not seduce the spirit sense with yes?
Kerry Diamond:
We'll be right back with today's guest. This episode of Radio Cherry Bombe is supported by OpenTable. I'm excited to announce that we'll be back on the road later this spring with OpenTable for our Sit with Us community dinner series, which highlights amazing female chefs and restaurateurs, and the Cherry Bombe and OpenTable networks. It's been such a treat meeting so many of you at our dinners across the country. Our next series of Sit With Us Dinners will take place in New Orleans on June 6th, Atlanta on June 17th, and Portland, Oregon on June 30th. How does it work? You can come solo and sit at a Cherry Bombe community table, or bring a friend or two and we will seat you together. Tickets are available exclusively on Open Table. Make sure you have the OpenTable app on your phone, and keep an eye on Cherry Bombe's Instagram for more details. You can also visit cherrybombe.com.
What has this tequila boom meant for Casa Dragones?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
It has meant for us it's brought new people, and more interest, and more appreciation for craftsmanship and innovation. There's a spotlight, right? We try to get in it, and get a fair share of that action. It's meant just more opportunity, really more opportunity in general for us. It's great to be in the tequila category in this moment because the appreciation for the spirit is really evolving, it's evolving with us. When we started in 2009, and we were only selling Casa Dragones Joven, which is our sipping tequila, the first sipping tequila that actually had sipping tequila on the label, but we entered into the category, we did a blend. It's a blend of a white tequila with a three-year-old extra aged tequila. It's made for sipping and pairing with food. We continue to want to prove that tequila is not only a great companion to Mexican cuisine, but it's also a great companion to a pairing dinner, a French cuisine, or Japanese cuisine, or Italian cuisine.
When we first started, people looked at me like, "Okay, you speak English really well. Your tequila tastes delicious, it's really gorgeous, but it's 2009 in the world, it's an economic complete downturn."
Kerry Diamond:
I thought you were going to say, "And all anybody wants is a margarita." You've had to combat that.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
That too, and I think that it's evolved tremendously. As we move forward, we feel very grateful that there's so much attention to that category because that's an opportunity for us and for everyone else.
Kerry Diamond:
Is there an agave shortage?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
If you look at the history of time, you're going to see how there's agave shortages, and there's agave surplus. We're coming into an agave surplus now.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, we are?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Because there was a shortage?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Yes, there was a shortage.
Kerry Diamond:
Because of the boom or did it have to do with-
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
It has to do with a lot of different factors, but yes, the boom, and also the plant takes between five to seven years to be ready to be harvested. It's tough to forecast with exactitude of what you need, and a lot of people are buying in the open market so it's complicated. We just want to make sure that these shortages and these surpluses are not that distant from each other, because if it's a very high shortage then that creates certain challenges for the industry, but also the surplus, because then you have a lot of agave that's undersold in price, or will not end up being used for what it was meant to be used.
Kerry Diamond:
I've seen pictures of agave plants, but I've never seen them in person, and they look so majestic, but they also look very hardy. How have all these climate issues impacted agave?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Well, throughout my lifetime in the category, you have the challenges of changing weather. The plant is a very Mexican plant, in the way that it doesn't succeed with very cold temperatures, sustained cold temperatures. The plant doesn't really succeed on temperatures that are lower than three centigrades in a prolonged period of time, that has affected. Also, water is an issue, and then the plant really is designed to succeed in high temperatures, and then the climatic changes also create other challenges, other plagues, other sicknesses. It's a constant change that you need to keep up with.
Kerry Diamond:
What have you learned about agave farmers? You've probably spent so much time with them now at this point. It's 15 years, right?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Casa Dragones is 15 years. It's a legacy business. It's a legacy business. It's a business of knowledge that's usually transferred from generational, family to family members because it's really complicated. It's not something that you say, "Now I'm going to go and learn how to be in agriculture, in the agave azul tequila and weber business." The tradition and the craftsmanship that you see there is really something very special, and that's where the part of the initial magic of our business is at, is in that community. For us, we're very focused on the purity of our agave and our water, these are the two raw elements that you need for the production of tequila. I've learned so much through them. When you spend a sunrise with an agave field team when you're going to start a harvest, it's almost like ceremonious. It's really, really beautiful, and you pretty much will only work between 5:30 A.M. to 11, 11:30, and the pride that there is in the work is really contagious. It's really beautiful.
Kerry Diamond:
Now you've broken a big glass ceiling in the tequila world. How is the world of agave farmers? Has that changed or is that still-
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
You know, it's changing. There are more women that you may imagine. They did a roundtable in an agave field, and a lot of the women that are involved in distilleries were invited, so I was invited to it, and only jimadoras came to that. There were a couple of jimadoras representing groups, and then we got to see them working on the fields, and business as usual. Even though it's a very physical labor, it's also a labor that you need to be very well-trained for. It's really not only about strength, it's about accuracy. It's really great to see a real mix of genders working on the fields.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm happy to hear that.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Yup.
Kerry Diamond:
So curious about the origin story, because you didn't set out to do this, you bumped into somebody at a party.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Yeah. So I actually was already obsessing, I had already been more than a decade in the tequila industry. I grew up being an entrepreneur, and while I was in my previous tequila job, I was kind of investing in certain entrepreneurial ventures, and kind of surfing the wave again, and started to get excited. Then I started really obsessing about becoming an entrepreneur in the tequila category, not jumping into other people's project. I was obsessed by becoming an entrepreneur in the tequila industry. Then when I'm in the process of really trying to figure out how to do this, I met Bob Pittman, a big American entrepreneur, the founder of MTV, the COO of America Online, the current CEO and chairman of iHeartRadio, and a huge entrepreneur. I'm in this party in Brooklyn and I'm talking to the founder of MTV, and he's like, "What do you do?" I gave him my background, he's like, "Really? Well, I've always wanted to start a tequila company," and I'm like, "Really? Well, I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur in the tequila industry." He says he pitched me, I say I pitched him. We were connected.
Kerry Diamond:
How did you wind up at this party?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
We were in a party of English friends in common, that were celebrating their 10th year anniversary, and he was friends with them, I was friends with them, and here we were in a house in McCarren Park chatting tequila, and he gives me his business card. I was like, "Oh, I hope this is not tequila chat only." So next day, his secretary is, "Mr. Pittman can meet with you on ... to come meet him at 75 Rock," and that's where I actually had my first meeting with Bob.
Kerry Diamond:
People didn't say, "Oh, Bertha, you need to talk to Bob. You two want to do tequila," no, you were completely there for different reasons.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
No one introduced us. We met each other at the party like, "Hi, how are you? What's your name? Blah, blah, blah." No one introduced us.
Kerry Diamond:
How did tequila even come up?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
He says, "What do you do?" So I gave him my background. He's like, "Oh, well, I have an idea for you. I've always wanted to start a tequila company," and I was like, "Boiiiiiing."
Kerry Diamond:
That is one of those stories that is so random, but so amazing because then you two launched a tequila company together.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
I think that’s New York for you. I think that's New York for you.
Kerry Diamond:
You don't think that could happen elsewhere?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
I wouldn't know, right? I wouldn't know, but I do know that this is an incredible effervescent business entrepreneurial center of the world, it's very easy to meet people in New York. People are very curious and very open. It's almost a sport, people want to meet new people all the time, and there's a lot of pride and appreciation of it. I remember when I got to New York, I was never worried that I was not going to meet new people. I mean, I got here, and the first week I was like... it's very easy to get connected, different than, I guess, other cities. Then we started talking more formally. We saw eye to eye on the opportunity, really the opportunity of doing something truly extraordinary, to enter the door in not a very traditional door.
Kerry Diamond:
How far had you gotten in your thinking? Did you have a brand in your head yet?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
No, we didn't have any. No one had anything, other than the will and the want of coming into the business, and of course I had my own ideas, and Bob had his own ideas. Bob spent all of his summers in San Miguel de Allende. He saw the opportunity of sipping tequila in San Miguel, he had that kind of in his head. His son was working in operations in Las Vegas, and his buddies from Las Vegas came to San Miguel de Allende, and they were drinking this kind of moonshine that they were like, "Oh, Mr. Pittman, if you can make this out of a 100% agave, we can actually sell it in our club for XXX." Bob was like, "Ting, ting, ting business idea." He tells the story that he was like, "Well, then I turned around, it's like who do I know in the spirits industry? No one." Bob really understood he didn't want to be an operator. He's been an entrepreneur all of his life.
For me, it was really exciting that we were going to have the opportunity to do the tequila of our dreams. That's how I went and got the maestro tequilero that was a mentor of mine, that was retired, to be the first person to say yes to the project. I mean, of course I quit my job way before that, kind of like took that trampling off in New York City, which is very expensive, to take the leap of faith of whether this was going to become something or not. Otherwise, I would have had to go back to Mexico and ask my parents for a room while I figure it out.
Kerry Diamond:
Had you met your wife yet?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Where did you two meet?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
We met at a dinner in Soho.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, my God, you are like the poster child for ‘talk to people at parties.’
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
You got to go out in New York, that's all I can say to the audience. You got to stay active. It just gets more interesting by the day.
Kerry Diamond:
So tell me in regards to Bob, because so many of us talk to people and we're like, "Oh, we should start a business. We should do this, we should do that." How did you know he was the right one? Obviously, he has money, so that's great, but it can't just be that.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
It never is just that.
Kerry Diamond:
It can't just be somebody's vanity project.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
I think it happened really organically in the connection and the communication that we were able to establish, and the opportunity that we were able to line up, and we were so aligned it just felt right. I think, that's for sure one of the best decisions I've ever taken in my life, not only because it's been a real privilege to build this business with him, but also, I've had the opportunity to learn from one of the top business people in this country so it's been a hell of a ride. The matter of fact that we're aligned on the opportunity, I never looked back.
Kerry Diamond:
How long did it take you from that meeting to launch?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
From meeting in Brooklyn, I think probably like three years, something like that.
Kerry Diamond:
That's not too bad.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
He actually lent me off his space here in 75 Rock, and I was like, "Well, I can't really put that in my business card, because when they read 75 Rock everyone is going to think, what kind of entrepreneurial venture is this?" It was and is, continues to be a great venture. We set on a quest to produce a true sipping tequila, and I had the deal with Bob that if we couldn't do an extraordinary juice that could stand by itself, we were not going to bring the tequila to market. I had already been too long in the industry to see this revolving door. The hero of our company is our juice, and it's really our tequila. We wanted to have a true story. We didn't want to create a marketing story for the product. We really want it to be all about Mexican craftsmanship, starting with our juice, and that's where the name Casa Dragones comes from.
He had two houses in San Miguel de Allende, and one of the houses happens to be the stables of this cavalry that masterminded the movement of Mexican independence. When I learned that information, I hired this woman that was doing her PhD in the history of this cavalry, and I was like, "I need to know really the story, and I need to see that this is actually factual." So we learned so much from who they were, what they accomplished, how strategized they did the first conspirational meeting to start the movement in San Miguel de Allende, and their outfits, their homes, all of the different details. There were already four generations of Spaniards in the New Spain, so they had never been to Spain before. They were paying 70% of their income to the Bourbonic Crown, so you can only imagine that they were ready to go, and through that story, for us what it meant, we want to be known in the industry as entrepreneurs, as rebellious, as independent thinkers that are really bringing new news to the tequila industry.
That rebellious thinking that Bob has from the founding of MTV, and all these things, really became part of our DNA, of who we are and where we want to go. We never forget every day that we came into this business, of course to do a profitable business, we live off of this business, and we have high expectations for ourselves from a business perspective, but producing our products, we get the joy and the gasoline we need to really go the full marathon.
Kerry Diamond:
Had you been struggling to find a name for the brand?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
So no, we did brainstorms and roundtables, and this and that, and then when we got to Dragones, we got stuck there, and then-
Kerry Diamond:
You knew that was the one.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
When you're in trademarks, there's so many trademarks that are already taken, this one was available. We were like, "Oh, my God, this is meant to be." So the color of our, color blue, comes from ... inspired by the flag of this cavalry. Once we had our first juice, our first tequila, Casa Dragones Joven, we had the trademark Casa Dragones. We really want to think about the idea of transmitting this elegance of a Mexican brand, handcrafted, and also the power of design to transmit the idea of sipping.
Kerry Diamond:
Talk about the importance of trademarking, because we have a lot of entrepreneurs and would-be entrepreneurs who listen to the show, and you've been so successful with what you've done.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
It's a very important part of your business. It's an area where really you don't want to cut any corners. You want to work with true trademark lawyers, they're not going to be cheap, they're going to be expensive, but they're really worth the investment. This is a part of the foundation of your business that you have to go 360 degrees. Trademark, as you go into selling your product, not only in the US, but selling it in other countries, you really have to pay attention to it. It's a constant that needs to be nurtured and taken care of. When you look at Mexican design and architecture, you're going to find that we're not shy in the usage of color, so we wanted to find that color that could actually fit our culture very well, but also can be our color. When we saw these images of their flag and their uniforms, we just saw that and we're like, "That's the color." It's really a very beautiful and distinctive color.
Kerry Diamond:
From when you launched to where you are today, very little about the brand has changed. The world has changed around you. I'm sure you've learned a lot in the process, and maybe there are a little micro changes that we don't know about, but it's rare to see a brand that consistent over the course of 15 years. What do you attribute that to?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Consistency in the team. I think brand management is not by consensus, really you have to be very disciplined in what you defined as your values, and as your core, and as your image, and your architecture, and then you have to stick to it. I think you have to be very strict in how you manage your brand. For us, we defined the language and architecture for our brand that was inspired by our juice, so first product is Casa Dragones Joven, and then we did our Blanco, our Añejo, and then our Reposado. I think that is very important for those entrepreneurs listening to us, yes, you can learn and you can adjust, but I think doing that core work at the beginning of who you are and where you want to go, I think those values start taking form once you're out there, and they guide you through the process. So when in doubt you really say no in what have you already established.
Kerry Diamond:
You basically take any category from ice cream to olive oil and there's so much going on. How do you have the strength of your convictions?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
This is a mixture of passion, determination, and in naiveté, I think. Everybody's going to tell you why this is not going to work, you have to see through that. One subject is, everybody likes to talk about packaging, "Oh, why don't you do this and why don't you do that? And why don't you do this and that?" You make your decisions and you have to power through, unless you have a mistake that is really hurting your business. I think that there's certain things that are important to have mentorship, you really have to listen, but you can be pushed around. That's one thing that you just have to hold on, drill yourself into the floor, and make sure that you are really listening, and making the right choices for your business.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you have an MBA?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
I actually did a master's degree in Northwestern. I did undergraduate in business in Mexico City, and then I did a graduate degree called Integrated Marketing Communications in Northwestern. So I took the business and entrepreneurial courses out of Kellogg, and the traditional advertising, direct marketing promotions, and all of the other areas of marketing, advertising in Medill, the School of Journalism.
Kerry Diamond:
How has that helped you?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Oh, it was really important in my career. I started in management consulting right out of college. I worked for Booz Allen, and I worked in the marketing intensive group doing growth strategies for the largest snack company in the world, in a lot of different markets in Latin America. I realized we were doing these great strategies for brands and for growth, and then we gave them this deck, and then we left. I mean, I want to do that. I want to go and implement that. I realized that I really wanted to go into brand management. I really needed that extra step, and I didn't want to go to a traditional MBA, so I went to this program that really completely, I mean, I've never studied so much in my life, I loved every minute of it. It really opened my eyes to so many different things, and have been really instrumental for my career, and that gave me enough ammunition to really land a great job in the tequila industry, in brand management. That's my journey.
Kerry Diamond:
If I were to drop you in the middle of a supermarket, would you be able to look at a lot of the products and be like, "Mmm, they should do this, they should do that?"
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Well, it's a sports, yes, it's always interesting. You have to be curious, and you have to find inspiration everywhere you go. A liquor store, or pharmacy, or wherever you go, retail in general is just a book to be read and to learn from. So I'm always looking at brands and learning from brands, or not agreeing with a brand, but that's part of the daily conversation.
Kerry Diamond:
A lot of people look at Casa Dragones and think of success from day one, was it?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
There's no such thing as an overnight success, I don't think so, I mean, there may be some. In consumer goods, you really have to dedicate yourself to build a brand. We produced 12,000 units, which is a thousand cases. The leaders of this industry sell 7 million cases, 2 million cases, so it took us almost two years to sell a thousand cases, but the price point per bottle was above $275.
Kerry Diamond:
And you launched during a recession.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
And we launched in 2009, those were tough years, and mostly what I heard on the street was why this was not going to work, but we stayed the course and we stayed on the street. We ourselves had to learn how to sell our own product, how to connect with a consumer, and then how to connect with a trade, and then how to connect with the wholesalers and build belief. We're believer builders, and that has given us the chops or the foundation to go, "One more, one more," because I think in business there's no such thing as crossing the finish line. There's really no finish line. It's about keeping a tempo. It's like you're in a marathon, and you may pass the 26-mile note, but there's another marathon in front, so how do you keep that pace? How do you keep the stamina? The passion? The dedication? The mentorship? The council? The board?
I see it as a video game, it starts getting more complicated. What you thought was the most challenging thing you were going to solve is old news because a new one is right in front, whether it's the biggest opportunity from a business perspective, not everything has to be a challenge, or the biggest challenge you've ever faced. Just when we thought had a ... the biggest challenge then COVID came along, so those kinds of things are going to happen. I think you need to really have the passion for it, for the product, to keep that fire in the belly going to push you forward.
Kerry Diamond:
In those early days, did you have much doubt?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Oh my God. When you start a business, I felt like I was walking close to the abyss all the time, and one wrong decision could be a dead end, and that creates a different sense of reality that injects a sense of urgency, and a little bit of drama, also seriousness about what you're doing, in thinking about how to move forward. You need to keep that discipline as you move forward, but it's a puzzle.
Kerry Diamond:
When I look at Casa Dragones, I can't help but think you must have been influenced by fashion brands, because you really seemed like this fully formed luxury brand when you launched.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
We did our homework. We didn't go to a cookie-cutter approach. We wanted a blank slate to define our own product, and that was our dream. You have to be tied to a certain production process. You have to be tied to a certain process, or certain raw materials, or certain suppliers. The biggest challenge was having nothing, and making that the biggest opportunity in creating a true new product in the marketplace. We wanted to build a house that will be a long-term house. We want this to be a multi-generational tequila that can really continue to innovate and bring new news to the category, and for us it starts with, again, I go back to what we're offering and the difference in our juice, if we can seduce people. This is the last label that we introduced last year, which is Casa Dragones Reposado, which is the first tequila ever rested in new Mizunara oak, that is a type of oak that only grows in the north of Japan.
This came because I was obsessed with Japan, and also Japanese whiskies, in the last 20 years, have created a subcategory in a very well-defined whiskey category. So they've been able to create a subcategory in a category where it hasn't seen that level of innovation in a long time. We were studying those whiskies and understanding what they were doing, and what their profile of taste was, and we found this Mizunara oak. I started to figure out who can I call? How can I get my hands on this Mizunara cask? So I found the only independent producer in the north of Japan that produces the Mizunara casks. So getting connected to them, and convincing them about this little brand in Mexico that wants to age in Mizunara oak, and they were like, "What do you mean, and why? What do you want to do that for?" So long story short, they sold me two casks. We started doing the exploration, and we, of course, started falling in love.
Kerry Diamond:
Is it a different color or is the bottle a different color?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
The bottle is a different color. It's a great color. We have here Mizunara written in Japanese, and the liquid, we're importing barrels from the north of Japan, you can only imagine-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, it does have a little color.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Yeah, from the barrels. Mizunara oak, misu means water. Traditionally, French oak and American oak are trees that grow really straight up looking for the light. This Japanese oak is completely twisted branches, and the Japanese have the know-how and the craftsmanship to turn these turned branches into long staves to do these gorgeous, super heavy Mizunara casks. They are much heavier. They're more porous, that's why it's called Misu, it's a more rebellious oak that demands a much more strict upkeeping and maintenance. Actually, when we started, when the pandemic opened and we were about to start selling our product, the family came to Mexico, to Tequila, to try the product, and also to train us on how to maintain the casks. We're going to evaluate it on how we maintain the casks for reorders. This is very important for their program.
Kerry Diamond:
Were you right there with them, learning how to do it?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Right there with a video camera, taking every word, making sure we got it.
Kerry Diamond:
You are so involved in the details.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
That's where it is, the magic is in the details. Also, it's all about enjoying, we enjoy producing our product. Hopefully, we find people that enjoy as much as we produce it.
Kerry Diamond:
How do you feel about people making cocktails with your tequila?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
We wanted to have the same relationship we have with chefs, but with mixologists. It's really interesting to see the evolution of Mexico. Let's take the example of 50 Best, if you look at 50 Best, I don't know how many years ago, there was no participation of Mexico. The same thing that happened in the culinary world is happening in the mixology world, and we wanted to be part of the producers that was really contributing to that. For example, our Blanco, we wanted to make sure that it's a great sipper and a great Blanco tequila, but it really had the herbaceousness and the citrus, and the floral notes to be able to do great signature cocktails. They're the chefs of our industry, so being able to collaborate and create extraordinary signature cocktails is something that is really important to us, and we see really as a very important part of our business.
Kerry Diamond:
I only ask because I was in Mexico City, and had a cocktail at Contramar, your friend Gabriela Cámara's place, and it was one of the best cocktails I'd ever had.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
It's amazing, right?
Kerry Diamond:
I think there was guava and tomato.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
I think starting a meal with a cocktail as a tradition, and really get to know that restaurant through the eyes of their cocktail list is why you go to explore to a restaurant. You want to go on a journey of taste, and cocktails are a very important part of that, and spirits of course, and wine, and champagne, and everything. You're going there for being taken on a journey, and not trying that one cocktail to open your meal, not everybody has to do it, but when you do it, there's always a surprise there.
Kerry Diamond:
I want to talk about the Casa Dragones property.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
You've referenced it a few times. You've won an award recently for the design.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
San Miguel de Allende. So La Casa Dragones, we started using the house as we knew it has that history for tastings, for anniversaries, for weddings, for all of the above, and then when COVID hit we thought it was the right time for us to do a restoration. Obviously, in San Miguel de Allende because it's a World Heritage Site by UNESCO, and the house is a historical building, we were not thinking of changing anything structurally, but really be able to tell the story of Mexican craftsmanship in everything we did. So we invited a group of friends, we worked with Meyer Davis on doing really the restoration part of the building, and the design of our bar, and then we also collaborated with Ana Elena Mallet and Raul Cabra.
Ana Elena Mallet is one of the top design curators in Mexico. If you are in New York City, you should definitely go to the MoMA to see her exhibit on Latin American design, it's the first time ever that MoMA has done homage to Latin American design. Working with her, we wanted to do homage to that region and said, "Why don't we tell a story that has never been told before," which is about telling the story of Bajío. Every single piece of furniture that's in there is either done historically in mid-century that we bought in auction, or it's influenced the younger generations that are today really telling that story. So in the combination of hospitality with history and craftsmanship, this is really what we're trying to do, and we're really excited that we won the Hospitality Award in Paris this last January called the Créateurs Award, and we also won the LIV Hospitality Award.
Kerry Diamond:
Congratulations.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Yeah, so we're really excited.
Kerry Diamond:
Talk to me about Las Vegas. Vegas is having a moment.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Vegas is having a moment, and we're so excited to be part of the moment. I met Brett Mufson-
Kerry Diamond:
At a dinner party in New York-
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
No, actually-
Kerry Diamond:
That you just went up and said hi?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
So we have a long-term partnership with Art Basel Miami, and we have curated every year in the Collector's Lounge, we do a tasting room, and every year we commission a different Mexican designer or architect. That was the first year we did it, and it was Héctor Esrawe, then we had Tatiana Bilbao, and then we had Gloria Cortina. He came over and we were talking, and then he told me the story of the Fontainebleau. We started talking more and he said, "I really would like to partner with a Mexican restaurant," and that's where that conversation all started, and took him to Mexico actually for Art Week.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, yeah, that's when I was there last year. It was so much fun.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Yeah, we went to the Tamayo Gala. You were there for that?
Kerry Diamond:
Last year.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Oh, my God. Long story short, in his list, of course was Gabi Cámara Contramar, which is really a Mexican simple restaurant. So it's a great team because it's Gabi Cámara, and also Frida Escobedo, who is an incredible Mexican architect with incredible accolades and projects, now including the new wing of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. She won that contest competing with architects from all over the world, so Frida is doing the design for both the Contramar restaurant, and the Casa Dragones tasting room inside of a Fontainebleu.
Kerry Diamond:
This is going to be so exciting when it opens.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
It's going to be very exciting because it's really a dream team together with the Fontainebleu. The creative journey that the casino is on is really a dream for us, for the team that's actually executing this, and also having the opportunity to work alongside Gabi and Frida is something that I will forever be very proud of.
Kerry Diamond:
When did you become friends with Gabi? A lot of our listeners know about Gabi.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
It's difficult to tell. We've known each other for many years. I've been in the tequila business for many years, she's been in the restaurant business for many years, so our paths constantly crossed. Mexicans, we're very, very friendly and we love friendship, so things always brought us together. Actually, we did a great dinner at Surf Lodge one summer, where Contramar, meaning Gabi stayed, we have a little home in the springs, and Gabi cooked at Surf Lodge. We've done a lot of different things together over the years, so when this happened we already had a pre-established friendship and relationship, so it's exciting to now go on this adventure together.
Kerry Diamond:
It's nice to see Vegas changing also, in that it's more hospitable to women these days.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Yeah, and I think that this is going to be a good poster child of that.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. You've had folks out there like Elizabeth Blau who's been working hard for a long time.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
I've participated with Elizabeth. I've been part of her initiatives. I'm a fan of hers. It's thanks to people like Elizabeth that things continue to change. Then when you get more into the incredible community in Vegas, you start seeing the level of professionalism and community that they have. I feel also very proud to have, through Amy Rossetti and Elizabeth, to be able to connect with the community there.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, I can't wait till you open. As you mentioned, you've been an entrepreneur since you were a child. How has this journey changed you as an entrepreneur?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
I think when I was growing up doing these little ventures here and there was the sport of having an idea and executing it, and seeing it through, I felt comfortable doing that. I think now as an entrepreneur, it's changed me in the way that you're like in the learning fire hose, very little time to digest. One of the key learnings is that it really enables you to expand your potential, just when you thought you were not able to cross that river, you end up in the other side of the river. It's really invigorating process, and very challenging process, but I think it's enabled me to grow as a professional and as a human being, and I'm very grateful for that.
Kerry Diamond:
We're going to turn this next part into a little bit of an entrepreneur speed round. Your wife is the chief marketing and creative officer of Casa Dragones. What's your advice for those who work with their spouses or partners?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Well, I think that you need to know your lane, you need to respect each other, and you need to find joy in what you do together. I don't think I would have been able to get this far on my own and vice versa, and I think at the end life, with a partner, you're also working on that together. You end up working on one project or another, whether it's a house, or this, or that side project, or whatever it is, you need to see it less as a thing that, "Oh, my God, we're doing this together," versus, "What an opportunity to go on this adventure together and do something extraordinary." If you keep it on that side, then having someone that really can work with you, and catch all these other balls that people need to catch during the game, and do it with excellence, there's something really extraordinary about that.
But yes, it's tough, you have to be disciplined about closing off the TV channel when it's time for your leisure, and your family time. I think that is a discipline that sometimes you do it great, sometimes you don't do it great, but you need to be aware of it so that you can try and find that balance, it stays true, and it stays interesting, and it stays exciting for everyone.
Kerry Diamond:
You've raised money over the years for Casa Dragones, and sold the majority of the company to BDT Capital Partners. Any fundraising advice?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
We partnered with BDT and MSD in 2018. It's been a great partnership. Well, it's like having two jobs, you're running your venture or you're looking to start a venture, and then you need to raise a capital. You have to operate your business properly, but raising capital is something you never stop doing. You have to make sure you're doing it on time, and you have to make sure that you're raising smart capital that actually can add value to your business. I think in this particular country, you have the luxury of there being capital everywhere. You have to find capital that believes in your project for the right reasons, that sees the size of the price at the same level that you see it, and that you understand the timing of their capital. The last thing that you need is more stress on top of you when you're building a business, so make sure that you're choosing smart capital, long-term capital, and people that are going to really support you in your journey because it's not all about capital.
Kerry Diamond:
Some of our listeners out there might hear you say, there's capital everywhere in this country, and they're like.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Where?
Kerry Diamond:
"Where? How? I can't get any of it."
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Well, there's more capital here than in Mexico. I may be exaggerating my point, but the amount of venture and private equity capital there is going on new initiatives, there's a lot of different options, but you have to get out there to look for it. You have to network, and you have to investigate, and you have to know is there people specializing in what you're doing, if it's media, or if it's product, or if it's restaurant, or if it's hospitality. You have to do that research because the last thing that you want is not being able to continue because you were not able to fund your business. That's a reality. It's a tough reality, but you don't know everything the first day you start.
Be frugal with every dime, and then make sure that you are spending the right amount of time on figuring out your A, your B, your C, or D, the people you're going to be calling, and why for. You have to do it all the time, that is a real muscle. How you pitch the company, how you talk about your financials, how you connect with the investors, what are you offering in return, so that's something that you have to do on a regular basis.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, I'm going to come visit you in Mexico, and you're going to have to teach the Bombe Squad a class on networking because you clearly are a master networker. We're going to do just one speed round question. If you were to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
I would say I would be trapped with Martha Stewart. I think, first, it would be a lot of fun. Second, I am certain that together we could figure out how to survive, and third, it would be not only great food, but also probably build a house that would look great, while having a great time. She embodies the quintessential entrepreneur, and I'm a big fan of her, so that would be Martha.
Kerry Diamond:
Bertha, it's always wonderful seeing you. Thank you for your time, and thank you for your tequila.
Bertha Gonzáles Nieves:
Muchas gracias, Kerry, I love being here.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. I would love for you to subscribe to Radio Cherry Bombe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and leave a rating and a review. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazan is the studio engineer for Newsstand Studios. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Elizabeth Vogt. Our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu, and our content operations manager is Londyn Crenshaw. Thanks for listening, everybody. You are the Bombe.