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Brunch With Babs Transcript

Brunch With Babs Transcript


Kerry Diamond:

Hi, everyone. My name is Kerry Diamond, and you are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. Some of you might have noticed, I took a little hiatus. With everything going on in the world, I just needed a break. I'm sure many of you needed a break and you still might. So, I'm sending a big podcast hug to everybody. I am very excited for the year to come, here at Radio Cherry Bombe. The team and I have some amazing guests for you in the weeks ahead, and we are so grateful to have amazing folks like you as our listeners.

Speaking of hugs, today's guest is like one big warm embrace, as you will soon learn. It's Brunch with Babs. Barbara Costello is the social media sensation known as the internet's favorite grandma. When the pandemic struck, Babs was a retired teacher with zero social media presence. She didn't even have a Facebook account. Her daughter convinced her to post something on TikTok, and here we are, millions of followers later. When Babs published that first TikTok video, she had thought her best days were behind her. Little did she know what was to come. Her second book, “Every Day With Babs: 101 Family Friendly Dinners For Every Day Of The Week,” will be out on April 8th, and you can pre-order it right now. This is a fun, wisdom-packed episode, so stay tuned for Babs.

There's lots of Cherry Bombe news to share with you, so let's go through some of it. Jubilee is coming up. It's our biggest event of the year. It's an amazing day of connection and community, and it is taking place in New York City on April 12th. You can purchase a ticket, you can apply to be a volunteer, or you can apply to be a Jubilee Scholar, which comes with a free ticket. If you are a Cherry Bombe member, be sure to use your Cherry Bombe discount when you buy your ticket. Also, if you're a member, you can apply for a Bombesquad Booth and the chance to showcase your brand at a very special rate. You can find all the details on cherrybombe.com. And members, you can find your exclusive info in your inbox. 

Now, let's check in with today's guest. Babs Costello, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.

Barbara Costello:

Oh, thank you so much, Kerry. It's great to be here.

Kerry Diamond:

It is such an honor. I think I told you the story already, but you were down in the concourse here at Rockefeller Center and I was walking behind you and I so desperately wanted to tap you on the shoulder.

Barbara Costello:

Oh my word.

Kerry Diamond:

And just say, oh, Babs, I want you to come on the show so badly. But I left you alone.

Barbara Costello:

Well, here I am, and I wish you had done that. I can't tell you the number of people though that do come up to me, and it's kind of new for me and it sometimes blows me away. And then I think, I'm really honored that they feel like I'm part of the family.

Kerry Diamond:

Well, you are such a comforting human being. I mean, just your presence on social media and your greeting to everyone. I could listen to you say that on repeat a hundred times. So, if you're having a bad day, folks.

Barbara Costello:

Tell my husband.

Kerry Diamond:

I will. I will. Mr. Babs.

Barbara Costello:

Right.

Kerry Diamond:

Babs, I want to start with something that you said in your birthday video, that was so moving.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah.

Kerry Diamond:

You said that when you were in your fifties, you thought your best years were behind you. Why did you think that?

Barbara Costello:

Yeah, we have a youthful culture. Right? Everything is directed to youth. Or if you're older, you're trying to look younger. Right? I mean, you're buying all the creams and the lotion, which I use by the way, because there's nothing wrong with beautiful skin. So, I think that by the time you reach 50 or at the half-century mark, and you do feel like, wow, I'm not going to probably live to a hundred. I'm not sure I want to live to a hundred. So, half your days are gone, and the next half of that century presents itself. So I think we're almost programmed to believe that, after 50, all the downhill stuff like, oh, birthday parties for 40. Oh, down the hill, 40 is like babies. And now you look at fifty-year-olds and they look like, oh my gosh, they could be in their thirties. So, I always say, I'm 76, but the seventies are the new fifties.

Kerry Diamond:

I absolutely love that. So, you just told me what your mindset is today basically. The world met you back in April 2020, during the pandemic. You dropped your first video at the urging of your daughter, and you hadn't engaged at all with social media up until that point, not even Facebook.

Barbara Costello:

I know, I was kind of weird.

Kerry Diamond:

It's so shocking to me. Because I do feel like most of the world was on Facebook.

Barbara Costello:

On Facebook, yeah. I'm a busy person. I'm high energy and I'm very busy. And so, I just got an iPad six months ago. My phone that does everything, it takes my pictures, it makes my videos and all that business. So I have to say, for whatever reason, I figured I'll talk to people. I'll pick up a phone or I'll go visit them or whatever. I really truly never was on Facebook before. No social media, which I think is not the typical like you said for that period. But it's true.

And so, TikTok, which I went on, because of my daughter's urging, because it was a lot of pushback. Like, no, I'm not doing this, no, no, no. And I have granddaughters who are dancing, and I love to dance, but not on TikTok. And so she said, you're not going to dance. So, I did put my foot in social media and here I am today.

Kerry Diamond:

It's amazing that all that happened just because you're trying to make your daughter happy.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah, because I just wanted to just like, okay, give her what she wanted, that one answer and figure, one and done.

Kerry Diamond:

So, you said you were very busy, you were retired at that point. What were you doing?

Barbara Costello:

So, I was 71 and I had retired. I had the preschool for 25 years.

Kerry Diamond:

The Growing Tree.

Barbara Costello:

The Growing Tree, yes. A very special place. Actually, I was subbing. I'm kind of a born teacher. So, I was subbing in local school districts. What do retired ladies do that are in their seventies? They go for lunch, they go to water aerobics, they watch their grandkids, and that was kind of my life. Also, I was involved in a Bible study at church, and I loved this group of women that I would see every Tuesday and I taught CCD. And so my days were filled, honest-to-goodness. It wasn't like I was eating bonbons and watching reruns of soap operas.

Kerry Diamond:

Do you think that whole idea and concept of retirement is maybe bad?

Barbara Costello:

I mean people retire maybe from a job or a career that they had, but then you can always segue into something else. Because I think older people have a lot to offer. There's a lot of wisdom there. I don't want to be put on a shelf. And so I don't think anybody should if they choose not to.

Kerry Diamond:

One of the biggest things we hear from folks in the Cherry Bombe community is they are so desperate for mentors. And I wish there was just some kind of program... I mean, I guess we should probably start it, but I wish there was some kind of program that was just pairing more people. Because like you said, there is so much wisdom and life's so confusing today.

Barbara Costello:

And I think sometimes again in our culture, when you said, did you think your best days were behind your 50? I think in our culture too, at least it was, that older people have nothing to offer. Right? And they should go to the retirement home and play bridge. But if you choose, I think what's holding back a lot of older people too, is needing a younger person to help them navigate this social media, where they could share whatever expertise they have. Because I put my foot in the water, and because of my daughter, if without her, there wouldn't be a brunch with Babs. There wouldn't be Instagram and TikTok. So, you need that younger person to mentor you so you could mentor other people.

Kerry Diamond:

Let's talk about the preschool. You ran your own preschool for 25 years.

Barbara Costello:

That's right.

Kerry Diamond:

The Growing Tree.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah.

Kerry Diamond:

You taught a lot of little ones.

Barbara Costello:

I did.

Kerry Diamond:

What made you want to have your own school?

Barbara Costello:

When Bill and I were first married, I taught middle school in Chicago and Schaumburg. And then, we were transferred to Virginia, we had two little ones at the time. And then when I moved to Virginia, I got a third. Aaron was born in Virginia. But I got involved in a church-based preschool and I co-directed it with a friend of mine. That was kind of like my foray into early ed. And I think the idea of these young, budding, enthusiastic, innocent, wonder-filled age, that two, three and four-year-old children are.

Kerry Diamond:

Oh, the cutest age. Oh my God.

Barbara Costello:

It was an honor to be involved with that. And so when I moved to Ridgefield, I had Elizabeth, number four. And there were no programs for twos. And twos, it is hard. I mean, what do you do? You put them in a room and they play, and you have a little snack and all that business. But they actually went on field trips with two-year-olds with their moms, of course. So I started this little program called Growing Tree, only with six kids. And that grew and developed and by the time I retired I had a staff of six teachers. We had 48 children.

The Growing Tree was just a special place. I don't know if you can reproduce it today. It took place at a special time and a special place where you can't go back, I don't think. But we had a very child-centered experiential program, filled with art and music and celebration and field trips, and we also included family. So I got to know all these families. I've been to weddings, I've been to graduation parties, they've been in touch with me over social media. "Oh, Mrs. Costello, I am not surprised you’re Brunch with Babs." That's a special place then if you retain that kind of connection.

Kerry Diamond:

So when you named it the Growing Tree, that was almost literal.

Barbara Costello:

Yes.

Kerry Diamond:

It grew and grew and grew. And now, there are branches everywhere.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah. Oh my gosh, Kerry, that's beautiful.

Kerry Diamond:

You would've come up with that on your own. Come on.

Barbara Costello:

I don't know. I'm glad you did.

Kerry Diamond:

When I read the title, I first thought of “The Giving Tree,” that book by Shel Silverstein.

Barbara Costello:

That's right.

Kerry Diamond:

So I don't know if that influenced your title at all.

Barbara Costello:

No, because then they'd cut it. Yeah, it's kind of sad.

Kerry Diamond:

All right. That's true. People don't love that book as much as-

Barbara Costello:

No, that was half the book.

Kerry Diamond:

... as when I was a kid. Right. It's basically a stump at the end. Sorry. Spoiler alert.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah.

Kerry Diamond:

Okay. So looking back on all that time and all those children, what is your number one piece of advice regarding preschool-age children?

Barbara Costello:

Let them be kids. Protect childhood, protect their innocence. Don't flood them with stuff. Even at that time obviously, there were computers 20 years ago. But we would never allow a computer at The Growing Tree. They need just to be nurtured, to be social, to develop those skills and that confidence into being independent. And how do you do that? You don't do that behind a screen. So I would say, even at home limit screen time. I think in the end it'd be so much more beneficial. There's hidden benefits to that, that you don't realize for years. So yeah, it's just let them be children, protect the wonder and innocence of childhood.

Kerry Diamond:

Do you think social media should be age-gated?

Barbara Costello:

I think that's up to the parents, really. I think it's up to parents to protect that innocence of their children, really.

Kerry Diamond:

I was a fairly advanced teenager. I would've found a way to be on social media without my parents knowing.

Barbara Costello:

I'm talking about three and four-year-olds.

Kerry Diamond:

Oh, yeah, okay.

Barbara Costello:

All my grandkids have phones. But now there's this program in high schools, where they have little caddies. So when you go into your classroom, you hang your phone up in the caddy.

Kerry Diamond:

It's a growing movement across the country, to get phones out of classrooms.

Barbara Costello:

I spoke to a teacher in a big public school system in New York, and actually he is one of the administrators. And he's been lobbying in Washington to do some controls over this. And he basically said, case in point, there was 10 minutes of downtime in a classroom. Well years ago, there'd be talking and moving. A pin could be heard dropped because they were all silent on their phones.

Kerry Diamond:

That makes me so sad.

Barbara Costello:

They're like, we need to do something. It's that socialization. Right?

Kerry Diamond:

And we've got this loneliness epidemic now.

Barbara Costello:

Yes.

Kerry Diamond:

We're sitting next to each other and we're on our phones, and it's just so sad.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah, I think it's going to change.

Kerry Diamond:

You shouldn't have phones in classrooms. I mean, I know some parents worry about their kids at school, but I can't imagine being a teacher and having that kind of disruption.

Barbara Costello:

Well, that's why you still have your phone, but it's not at your desk. So, you hang it up, like you do your coat. And then when you leave the class, you take your phone. So if you have a message from your mom, “Don't take the bus, I'm picking you up,” you get that message.

Kerry Diamond:

Versus when I was a kid, my mother didn't even know where... Sorry, mom, if you're listening to this. My mother had no idea where we were.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah.

Kerry Diamond:

I grew up in New York City, and that was at a time when we didn't have a lot of TV stations. But they would broadcast every night on Channel Five, “do you know where your children are?”

Barbara Costello:

I remember that.

Kerry Diamond:

Do you remember that?

Barbara Costello:

That public service announcement, yeah.

Kerry Diamond:

It's ten o'clock, do you know where your children are? And people can't believe that that was the case back then, but it was.

Barbara Costello:

Sure. And it was a different environment, right?

Kerry Diamond:

Yeah. We're free-range kids.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah. Well, I used to be able... I'm a lot older than you. When we went out, let's say after dinner, in the summer, whatever, we had to come home when the street lights came on. I grew up in Chicago. Right? But you play down the street and you ran around and you were at different. You could've been four blocks away from your home and just come home when the street lights came on.

Kerry Diamond:

Yeah, that was the thing in Staten Island too.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah.

Kerry Diamond:

Okay. Let's go back to you and your profession. I read that you studied English and education at Marquette University in Milwaukee. They're very proud of you. I read about you in the alumni newsletter.

Barbara Costello:

Oh, yeah. Did you really? You must've did a deep dive.

Kerry Diamond:

Did a little research.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah.

Kerry Diamond:

So, you studied English and education. What drew you to those two things?

Barbara Costello:

Well, first of all, I love English. I like to write, I like to read, so that was kind of a normal path for me. I like to tell people what to do in a nice way. And also at that time, the nursing program was really popular, and the education program was very popular. And there was also speech therapists and occupational therapists, but those were mostly the tracks that most women gravitated to. My personality and my strengths led me into education.

Kerry Diamond:

Some women weren't even encouraged to go to college.

Barbara Costello:

No. In fact-

Kerry Diamond:

Back then.

Barbara Costello:

Because most-

Kerry Diamond:

And that wasn't that long ago.

Barbara Costello:

No. Most women... Not most, but some, got married right after high school. And I was the first one in my family to go to college, by the way. My one cousin, Junior Augustus, he's a year older than me so he was the first one. And my grandparents had 22 grandchildren. One of my grandmother's nine kids went to Loyola for a few years. Otherwise, nobody went to college. And then the grandkids, now most of the grandkids went on.

Kerry Diamond:

You grew up in Chicago, as you mentioned, your parents were of Italian and Lebanese descent. I'm curious what life at home was like when you were younger. Were you cooking and doing chores? I'm wondering when you started soaking up all this wisdom that you now share with us.

Barbara Costello:

So from birth until third grade we lived in Chicago in the city, 15 minutes from the loop, from downtown, maybe closer. And my grandfather owned an apartment building. So the entire was the family. Family to them was everything. So on the top level of the building were my grandparents, then the next level were my mom and dad, my sister and I. And then the first level was a split. So the latest son or daughter who got married because there were then two units lived there. I would go up to my grandmother's all the time. My mother worked at Sears at the time, so she would walk to Sears from where the apartment was.

Kerry Diamond:

Some of you might not know Sears. It was a big department store back in the day.

Barbara Costello:

Oh, Sears, that's right. Sears was the store. They used to say, "As Sears goes, the country goes."

Kerry Diamond:

And the Sears catalog, very big deal.

Barbara Costello:

Oh my gosh, we waited for that thing. It was like, I don't know, 2000 pages. But anyway, so I spent a lot of time with my grandmother upstairs. And my grandmother was an Italian immigrant, came to this country to marry my grandfather, arranged marriage. She couldn't read, but she raised nine children and she was one of the wisest women I've ever met.

Kerry Diamond:

And did she shoo you away? Because we hear a lot of stories. Either women are encouraged when they're little to be in the kitchen with their moms or their grandmothers, or sometimes the moms and the grandmothers are like, "Get out of the kitchen."

Barbara Costello:

Yeah, yeah. Well, I was invited in until I've messed up. And then it was like, "Forget it. Go." They're Italians, they didn't have a lot of patience at least in our family. And there was always a hustle and bustle and a lot of movement. And Italians spoke in a mile a minute, and I wish I had picked it up, but I didn't. So it was a very robust energy-filled... The kitchen was the hub because food was everything.

Kerry Diamond:

What was the typical dinner like? What were the traditional family dishes?

Barbara Costello:

If it were at my grandmother's, so Sunday was the day to go to grandma's. So now we moved and now we've got all these cousins, aunts and uncles. And so, what it would be like would be, after mass, we would go to grandma's. And of course, they're Italian, so we always went to the basement. But the basement was big, and it was very nice actually. But not as nice as upstairs, but everything was covered in plastic.

Kerry Diamond:

I was going to say, you probably weren't allowed to sit on the...

Barbara Costello:

Well, yeah, and also covered in plastic. When you sat, you stuck. But my grandmother had a great big kitchen. And so we always started with a little antipasto. But then the prima dish was always pasta. But it wasn't ever the main course because I think having grown up in the depression, now we could have meat. Then there was always the chicken, the potatoes. It was mostly chicken, I have to say, and potatoes in a beautiful salad. And then my grandmother's homemade biscotti. And then at about four o'clock, we'd all go and get hot dogs.

Kerry Diamond:

Because it was Chicago?

Barbara Costello:

Yeah, it was Chicago, and everybody loved hot dogs. And it was like, okay, we ate at 1:00, it's now 4:00. What do you want? I'll have two everything, I just want mustard on mine. My uncle Bob would go to a hot dog stand and then bring home 25 hot dogs.

Kerry Diamond:

Oh, Babs, that's so funny. Now, a hot dog is not a hot dog in Chicago. It is like a religion practically.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah, it's sacrosanct.

Kerry Diamond:

What would you get on your hot dog?

Barbara Costello:

Oh, I have to have everything. The sports peppers I kind of came to love. But it was the works, it was the bright yellow mustard, the really neon green relish, with the sweet onion, a nice pickle slice, and two tomato halves, like quarters, and then little celery salt, and then the fries had to be wrapped with the hot dog. Otherwise the grease, that wouldn't work. You have to have it all wrapped in one. That's how back in the day.

Kerry Diamond:

And this might be the most controversial thing I'm going to ask you, but ketchup on hot dogs?

Barbara Costello:

I'm from Chicago. That's like a mortal sin. However, my grandkids, they'll have ketchup. I'm like, "Your background, you're part of the family. We're Chicago lineage here." They're like, "No, we love ketchup." I'm like, "Well, you're not going to make it in Chicago."

Kerry Diamond:

Speaking of all these meals, your next cookbook is called “Every Day With Babs,” that's your second cookbook, and it comes out this April 8th. Why did you want to focus on dinner for this book?

Barbara Costello:

Yes. So Kerry, the first cookbook that I wrote which I never thought in a million years I was going to write a cookbook, number one, let's get that on the table here.

Kerry Diamond:

I heard the story you told somebody about when the publisher just cold-emailed you or DMed you or something. You thought they wanted you to write an autobiography and you wrote back... I should let you tell the story. But you wrote back and you said, "I haven't done that much with my life, I'm going to pass."

Barbara Costello:

Yeah. Thank you, but no thank you. Yeah, my life's not that interesting. Then Liz is like, "Mom, they want you to write a cookbook." Well, I don't want to do that either. But anyway, after a little... Again, I've tried a lot of different things but I've never been like, oh, yes, let me jump into it. Like, you're going to do a podcast. I am? How does that work? But anyway, I'm here. Right?

Kerry Diamond:

It's so funny. All these dreams you never even had.

Barbara Costello:

I didn't have. I know life is really an adventure, and you don't know what's around the next bend unless you turn the corner. But anyway, so back to the food thing. So, “Celebrate with Babs,” again, it's like my background with preschool. Preschool is a celebration of life. And so, “Celebrate with Babs,” is a celebration of all the holidays that our family celebrates throughout the year. So, it went by month. So now, my online family, I would get messages saying, "Babs, thank you so much. Now we have the holidays covered, but what do we do for every day?" And that's a perennial question, every day. You answer it today, guess what? You got to answer it tomorrow.

So, they wanted a book, every day dinners. And I thought we've got our months covered. Now, we're going to do the days of the week. But you know how the days of the week, there's a different tempo. Like Monday feels vastly different than Friday or Saturday, for Pete's sake. The “Every Day with Babs” is a book of 101 family-friendly dinners that are arranged by the days of the week.

Monday is ‘Get Your Sheet Together Monday,’ which is all sheet pan meals. They're the simplest ones to make because Monday is the toughest day to get through. After the weekend, you're coming down, you're back to routine, and you're sometimes sleepwalking through the day. So those are the easiest, they're easy, they're delicious, and they're quick. So, Monday is that way.

Then Tuesday is ‘Two for Tuesday,’ a cook once, eat twice. So, you do a little batch cooking. Wednesday is the ‘One and Only Wednesday.’ You want to have a lot of cleanup, it's the middle of the week. Plus, families are busy, people are busy. You've got meetings, you've got kids running around. So it's one pot, one skillet. Thursday, by the time Thursday comes around, you've depleted most of your food budget, the refrigerator's half empty. So, they're more pantry staple meals. So it's ‘Thrifty Thursday.’ Friday is ‘Fri-yay.’ Hey, yeah, it's like fun. It's movie night, it's game night, it's TV trays. It's pocket sandwiches or spicy sushi bakes or lots of fun things, chicken and waffles. And then Saturday is low and slow, slow cookers. Because you're doing errands, you're going to games, you're out. And so, you can throw things together in the morning and have a delicious dinner waiting for you when you return. And then Sunday is ‘Sunday Suppers.’ Then those are more elevated. It's a cheesy lasagna, eggplant parm, my cousin Jim's chicken cacciatore. They're more lovely, more dinner meals that they're going to take a little bit more prep.

But Kerry, they did a study. The Massachusetts General Hospital did a long-term study, like 20 years on the benefits of family dinner. Or do family dinners make a difference? And after 20 years, they came to the conclusion that sitting down as a family without any distractions and making the meal and sitting to enjoy it, every family member benefited. They were healthier, they were more peaceful, they were emotionally better grounded. The kids achieved higher standards. There was lower depression or a lower abuse of negative behavior things. And that was only because you sat down as a family and had dinner. So, we talk about that in the book and how important it is. With our schedules today too, you don't want anybody to feel guilty. But if there's only one night you can do this, choose a night. For us, it was Sunday, and that's why the Sunday chapter is a bit more elevated.

Kerry Diamond:

And I love the fun names. You're very big on tradition and celebration like you said. And I think, just having those fun names to go with it.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah.

Kerry Diamond:

You also said, because you are so big on tradition, just start some traditions.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah.

Kerry Diamond:

Because after two years, they take hold.

Barbara Costello:

You're amazing, Kerry, just so you know. I'm so impressed.

Kerry Diamond:

I did my homework.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah, you really... You're smart too. Yes. That is not too late. People will go like, well, I wasn't raised that way. We had no traditions. We didn't do it yet. So, just start. You are the change. That's a quote somewhere, that you want to become or something. Right?

Kerry Diamond:

I love the two-year thing because I feel like, sometimes you think, oh, my family didn't do that. It's going to take a decade.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah, yeah. No, two years.

Kerry Diamond:

Never too late. I think that's your...

Barbara Costello:

It's never too late.

Kerry Diamond:

Yeah.

Barbara Costello:

Maybe that's my motto. Right.

Kerry Diamond:

That is one of your... I think you have several mottos, but that's definitely one of them. I also heard you have this amazing marinara recipe that you did not put in the first cookbook that you put in the second cookbook. Is this true?

Barbara Costello:

Well, the first cookbook has the marinara sauce. However, no. The second cookbook, so, there is this... How do you know? You are like... Do you work for the FBI? So, my friend, Ida Silvestri, who's passed on, but she was like a surrogate mother to me in Ridgefield. And she was more from the north of Italy, like north of Rome. That's how they divide, the country. And she was an amazing cook. And she had 72 tomato plants. She died when she was like 95. So, when I met her, she was probably 80. And 72 plants in her backyard in Ridgefield.

Kerry Diamond:

She's the original tomato girl.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah. But anyway, so she would can all those tomatoes and then make this incredible sauce. It took her two days to make the sauce. And to answer to your question is, it's not in the cookbook because people are not going to take two days to make spaghetti sauce. But it was the gravy, which is with the meat and the sausage and the neck bones and all of that. And she'd marinate all of this meat overnight in white wine and garlic paste and basil and just beautifully covered and into the refrigerator. So, everything just married, marinated.

And then she would make her salsina. She would take tomato paste and then simmer that with oil and just let that simmer with tons of onion and garlic, and that was enough. So, all of these pieces were done the night before. And then the following day everything kind of came together and then simmered in her huge pot that she had brought from Italy, with the spoon that was probably three feet, for several hours. And then all of that was canned. She canned her tomato sauce. I learned how to can without using the hot water bath, and Ida taught me that.

Kerry Diamond:

You're still here to tell the tale.

Barbara Costello:

And I'm still here. That's right. That's right.

Kerry Diamond:

That is amazing. So you haven't published that recipe anywhere?

Barbara Costello:

No. I have to tell you this though. When Ida would make her sauce, I went over there once, “Ida, stop, before you throw that in, we're measuring, stop.” And so I should have just videotaped her. But there I was with a pencil and paper, measuring everything.

Kerry Diamond:

Sure, sure. We would run that in the heartbeat. I think we ran a recipe from Dominique Crenn once, the famous chef out in San Francisco, that had an aquarium pump in the recipe as one of the ingredients.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah, you need an aquarium pump.

Kerry Diamond:

Yeah. You're not doing that kind of thing?

Barbara Costello:

No, no, no.

Kerry Diamond:

In addition to the book, your other big project has been renovating the Basket House. Tell us what the Basket House is.

Barbara Costello:

So, every time I'd go to my daughter's, I had to cross this one-lane bridge. You had to kind of wait. My car went over, you couldn't go. And there was an adorable house that sat right by the bridge, right on this river and I'd always admire it. So, lo and behold, Mr. Babs and I were in Charleston away for a few days, and I get a call from Liz and she said, "Mom, you won't believe this, but that house is on the market." And I'm like, "What house?" "You know, the house." And I'm like, oh my gosh. So she said, "I have an appointment to go see it." So lo and behold, after...

Kerry Diamond:

Is it the same daughter who got you on TikTok?

Barbara Costello:

Yeah, she's my, yeah. My daughterger. So lo and behold, we bought the house.

Kerry Diamond:

Kardashians have a momager. You have a-

Barbara Costello:

I have a daughterger. See gang, I'm looking back. It's the young ones. I told you, you need the mentor. Right? So anyway, it is an 1830s. It was originally a blacksmith shop. And one of the rooms, the biggest room, had a brick floor, which is probably where the horses came in. Because if you look at the front of the house, there's hinges on the wall and there's a seam between the windows. That must have been where the barn door opened to let the horses in. Then in 1850, it became a basket shop. So, it's on the river, and they probably soaked the reeds and then wove the baskets and then sold them in this shop. In the later 1800s, then it became a home. And many artists owned the house before us. A lot of very creative people have lived there. We bought the house from a retired French diplomat. However, it needed a lot of repair. Not a lot was done.

Kerry Diamond:

As we all know, everyone who watches your TikToks and your Instagram Reels.

Barbara Costello:

Right. So, because we were in a floodplain, so we needed to raise the house two feet.

Kerry Diamond:

Oh, wow. That's a lot.

Barbara Costello:

When we raised the house two feet, we looked and I'm like, “What is that?” There was the brick floor of the family room, that was still on the ground. There was nothing under it, it literally was laid in. There must've been some cement or something, but it was literally on the soil. And I'm like, “Oh my gosh, how did they walk in that room during the winter? Can you imagine this winter?”

Kerry Diamond:

No heated floors.

Barbara Costello:

No heated floors.

Kerry Diamond:

In that house, yeah. Have you ever renovated a house before?

Barbara Costello:

No. You know what? We've never.

Kerry Diamond:

This is a big undertaking.

Barbara Costello:

It's a big undertaking. But we're well on our way and we're going to share a lot about it very shortly.

Kerry Diamond:

You've only put out little bits and pieces of it. I noticed that. I was wondering if we have some-

Barbara Costello:

We want to have the reveal when it's just so pristine. I did a walkthrough to show everyone what it was like. Okay. It was charming and it still is. We have kept that charm and we've kept the feel of some of the elements of the 1830s, 1850s.

Kerry Diamond:

I love the one floor you revealed, the checkerboard tile.

Barbara Costello:

Yes. Did you love that?

Kerry Diamond:

That's beautiful.

Barbara Costello:

And that's so pretty. Yes. A lot of those elements-

Kerry Diamond:

And you said something about a pink pantry. I'm excited for that reveal.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah. Dead salmon is the color.

Kerry Diamond:

Wait, dead salmon? No. Is that the actual color?

Barbara Costello:

It is.

Kerry Diamond:

On the paint can?

Barbara Costello:

Yeah.

Kerry Diamond:

You need to talk to them and they need to rename it, ‘Babs pink’ or something.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah. It doesn't sound too inviting, does it?

Kerry Diamond:

Bab showed up in the most fabulous pink coat, by the way. She was so Cherry Bombe without even knowing she was being super Cherry Bombe.

Barbara Costello:

It doesn't look like dead salmon. I mean, the dead salmon is a beautiful color. But the name, I know.

Kerry Diamond:

Is this going to be your full-time home?

Barbara Costello:

It will. Over time. We're kind of slowly going to be able to spend some time, maybe three days a week at first because we have to downsize again because we do own a townhouse 40 minutes away. And our kids are near the Basket House, they're within 10 minutes.

Kerry Diamond:

That's so nice.

Barbara Costello:

I have one in Ridgefield. They're all in the area.

Kerry Diamond:

And how's Mr. Babs feeling about all of this?

Barbara Costello:

He's such a good egg. He just goes along. It's like fun for him too. He's like, “How can I help? What can I do?” He's got that Irish kind of disposition. I think we're a good match, because I'm hyper and energized, and it'll be eleven o'clock and I'm still doing something, Bill will be already asleep in his chair. But you know what? He really is excited about everything.

Kerry Diamond:

I love seeing him in the videos. He's a fun presence-

Barbara Costello:

He's really good.

Kerry Diamond:

... in all the videos. Looking at your life today, what has been the biggest adjustment for you?

Barbara Costello:

Well, okay, for instance, I was in a bathing suit shoot and I was on the billboard in Lower Manhattan. I was at that time-

Kerry Diamond:

You and Martha Stewart, Sports Illustrated is next, Babs.

Barbara Costello:

She looked great. Didn't she?

Kerry Diamond:

She looked great.

Barbara Costello:

Oh my gosh. I think all these new things that come my way, I do get a little hesitant. And then I think the challenge is to do it, say yes. Leave your comfort zone. I think so many people, and I for one, you get kind of comfy and trapped. And I think the challenge is leaving that comfort zone, taking the plunge, give it a try.

Kerry Diamond:

We kind of glossed over your entrepreneur years. I mean, you're still an entrepreneur now. But running your own preschool was very entrepreneurial and you had that whole staff you talked about and all the children. Did running your own business then prepare you for some of what you're doing now?

Barbara Costello:

I think for sure. Because it's all communication, isn't it? I had a wonderful rapport with the parents. I had a monthly newsletter, we did monthly calendars.

Kerry Diamond:

You're a substack ahead of your time, Babs, look at you.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah. I mean, yes, all of that. But don't you think in life unbeknownst to you, what you're doing today, leads to something that might not happen for 20 years. And at that point, you didn't see it but looking back you're like, wow, this is a straight line but I had no idea.

Kerry Diamond:

And no one called you an entrepreneur back then?

Barbara Costello:

No. I was a director and teacher.

Kerry Diamond:

But you were an entrepreneur. Like, if you owned a nursery school today, you would call yourself an entrepreneur.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah, I started a school. But I just thought of myself as a teacher who opened a school, and the rest is history.

Kerry Diamond:

You said that this has been the second act you weren't expecting. What advice do you have for those who think a second act is not in their cards?

Barbara Costello:

I would say first of all, you have to look at your financial situation, right? Because sometimes you can't get unstuck until you get that in order. But, if you have a passion or a dream and you're younger than 105 then you maybe slowly dabble in it, if you can't do a hundred percent, give it a shot. Maybe weekends you do something, at night, you do something. You begin small to share those things, until maybe if it's the plan, it evolves into something that you can do full time.

But don't close the door. There's no age limit on experiencing this life. I always say life is a great gift, so why don't you just keep on unwrapping it? Don't get stuck. Untie that next bow, unwrap that gift and see what awaits you. But you have to do it realistically. You can't leave your full-time job if that's paying your rent. But you can dabble, you can try, you can put your toe in.

Kerry Diamond:

I was also thinking, I don't know why this struck me. It was around new years, and I do love resolutions. I know a lot of people like poo-poo resolutions these days. But I was thinking, lean into the things that you loved when you were a kid. And you can do that now. And I was just thinking, I loved books when I was a kid, I loved the library. I feel like the librarians were my second parents.

Barbara Costello:

Your best friends.

Kerry Diamond:

Yeah, exactly. And they were so nice to me. They would let me take out more books than you were supposed to take out and I just don't feel like I read enough books these days. That was one of my big resolutions. And I set up a shared notes app with my siblings to share the books that we're all reading.

Barbara Costello:

Oh, how fun.

Kerry Diamond:

I think that could be a little part of it. Think back to what you loved when you were a kid. I think of so many people who were really good artists when they were little kids and just stopped because... yeah, for whatever reasons.

Barbara Costello:

And children show those interests early. I have a little grandson who is an incredible artist. He can draw. I can't draw as well as my six-year-old. And he was just now enrolled in an art program, and he's loving it. I think that's so true.

Kerry Diamond:

Yeah. Tap into that joy.

Barbara Costello:

It's kind of going back to how you were wired, kind of. What's natural to you.

Kerry Diamond:

Mm-hmm. I love when you share what you call a slice of peace. That is one of my favorite Babisms. The past few weeks have been really hard on a lot of folks.

Barbara Costello:

What a nightmare.

Kerry Diamond:

I know. And I was curious if you have a slice of peace you can offer all of us right now.

Barbara Costello:

I was thinking about this. And it's like, what your home is. Your home is your castle, your home is a reflection of you, it's your history. It's where you were and who you are and where you're going. And it's those family photos. It's all those things, that once you enter, you're in the safe, peaceful castle. And now that's all taken away. And I think this whole terrible thing is, number one, I think it refocuses us too because you can't go back obviously because those things are gone. I think the most important thing is, and this has been kind of amazing, that most people have their loved ones. They're together with the people that they love most in the world. With that they can create new memories.

Sometimes these awful tragedies, all of a sudden people are helping each other. You're seeing an outpouring of love and donations and neighbors helping neighbors. You heard that one story, I think it was James Wood. He was concerned about the 94-year-old man who had dementia who lived down the hill from him and how they went and made sure he was okay. So, it's awful. I can't imagine in a hundred years. But, it does show too the resilience of people. And sometimes it brings out qualities that we didn't even know we had. And also readjusting that it's not your stuff, even though your stuff is so important, but it's the people that you love that are safe and sound and with you.

Kerry Diamond:

And also a reminder to know your neighbors.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah.

Kerry Diamond:

That's one of the things I took from this because I live in an apartment building in Brooklyn and I realize there are a lot of new people I don't know, and I should do something about that.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah, send them over a coffee cake.

Kerry Diamond:

Exactly. Exactly. I do need to start baking too. That was one of my resolutions, bake more.

Barbara Costello:

Bake and read.

Kerry Diamond:

Bake and read. Yeah, I wish I could do that all day long. Are you good at trusting your gut? Is it something you've had to learn over time or were you born that way?

Barbara Costello:

No, first of all, I think women have that sixth sense.

Kerry Diamond:

Intuition.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah. And I think that... you know they say the gut is the second brain, right?

Kerry Diamond:

I never heard that.

Barbara Costello:

Oh, yeah. You know how sometimes something will happen but you feel it in your tummy. Right? You're kind of processing it here, but you're feeling it here. Right? I definitely have that sense. And if I assess things or it's just like an emotional kind of thing, many times I'm kind of okay. Not spot-on, but there was a connection for sure.

Kerry Diamond:

I would love to know some women you've looked up to over the years. Maybe other culinary professionals or just folks out there who've mentored you from afar or near.

Barbara Costello:

Well, certainly my mother and my grandmother, who made such an influence on me, and Ina. Julia Child, I used to watch her PBS show and I was fortunate enough, we spent a couple of weeks in the south of France and I visited her home. It's now a cooking school.

Kerry Diamond:

We have a story on it in the next issue, yeah.

Barbara Costello:

Oh wow. That's great.

Kerry Diamond:

Did you meet McKenna?

Barbara Costello:

We did. We spent some time with her and her husband and her daughter. And I got to kind of mosey around Julia Child's kitchen, which was pretty incredible, but...

Kerry Diamond:

You're Julia Child for some people these days.

Barbara Costello:

I'm a little zany. She was a character, wasn't she?

Kerry Diamond:

She was very much a character.

Barbara Costello:

And it was fun to watch her. So, I hope I'm that way.

Kerry Diamond:

All right, let's do a speed round. What beverage do you start the day with?

Barbara Costello:

Okay. I have this mushroom drink. I know, it's a powder. I know it sounds awful, but it's good. And it's chocolate, so it tastes like hot chocolate. So, I heat water and then I put a scoop of this OM. It's all kinds of different mushrooms, like Lion's Tail and different... Reishi, is that one of them? I don't know. But there's lots of mushrooms. And you just stir it up and it really satiates me and I think it's super healthy. I'm really kind of into health. Because you know what?

Kerry Diamond:

Good, good.

Barbara Costello:

Because I'm busy. I got to take care of myself.

Kerry Diamond:

We need you to live forever, Babs, I know you said you weren't sure if you wanted to live to a hundred, but we want you to live to a hundred at least.

Barbara Costello:

Only if you're with me.

Kerry Diamond:

Okay. What's a favorite cookbook of yours?

Barbara Costello:

Well, I lived in Virginia. So, I got really involved with the “Southern Living” books.  I had probably 20 of the recipes for that year. It was like the encyclopedia.  I had 20 of those, I was so into “Southern Living.” And then when we moved, we had to downsize and Bill took them all to the thrift shop. So, those all went. And also years ago when I got married, everybody's Bible was the “Better Homes & Garden…”The gingham, red and white.

Kerry Diamond:

Well, hopefully your old “Southern Living” cookbooks found a good home in those thrift shops.

Barbara Costello:

I'm sure.

Kerry Diamond:

What is always in your fridge?

Barbara Costello:

Well, butter, cream, all that good stuff. And also salad stuff, enough to make a salad. If I get home or during the middle of the day, fresh veggies, carrots, peppers, romaine, or whatever. But salad.

Kerry Diamond:

What's your most used kitchen tool or implement?

Barbara Costello:

I love my kitchen shears because they do everything. And my scale, I couldn't bake without my scale.

Kerry Diamond:

You like to weigh, versus measure out.

Barbara Costello:

110%. When I'm trying to convert people to the scale system, I'll say, "Okay, put your flour in that cup. Now, let's see what it calls for. Let's see what you have." And you could see. She had two more tablespoons. Well, guess what? That could affect that recipe, right? 

Kerry Diamond:

That is a great test to do to show people, to realize why you should weigh.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah, there is a difference, if you're heavy-handed or you're too light, whatever.

Kerry Diamond:

What's your favorite snack food?

Barbara Costello:

Maybe popcorn. I love popcorn.

Kerry Diamond:

Okay.

Barbara Costello:

And nuts. Oh my gosh. Peanuts, those Virginia roasted nuts, those are great too.

Kerry Diamond:

What was your favorite food as a child?

Barbara Costello:

I would say, I've always been a pasta freak. Because my grandmother made homemade pasta and we always had the homemade sauce. I'd say pasta.

Kerry Diamond:

What are you streaming right now?

Barbara Costello:

I don't watch a lot of TV.

Kerry Diamond:

You don't? Even with all these amazing TV shows now?

Barbara Costello:

I do go to bed a little on the earlier side because I have a full day. What do you recommend? What are you streaming?

Kerry Diamond:

Oh, gosh. I just finished “Rivals.” “Rivals” was good. Little bawdy, it's set in the '80s.

Barbara Costello:

Oh, wow.

Kerry Diamond:

And the “Cotswolds,” it's all about media. Oh, “Bad Sisters.” Love “Bad Sisters.”

Barbara Costello:

Really?

Kerry Diamond:

Have you been to Ireland?

Barbara Costello:

I have.

Kerry Diamond:

It's set in Dublin.

Barbara Costello:

Oh, wow, okay.

Kerry Diamond:

And the women who star in it are so good. The older sister actually created the show.

Barbara Costello:

Oh wow.

Kerry Diamond:

It's on Apple TV+.

Barbara Costello:

Make a list for me.

Kerry Diamond:

Okay, I will. I will.

Barbara Costello:

I think my last streaming thing was “24.” Do you remember that? And also “John Adams.” I love that series.

Kerry Diamond:

Oh.

Barbara Costello:

You have to see that. You'll love it.

Kerry Diamond:

Okay, I'll add that to my list. Do you have a favorite food film?

Barbara Costello:

Oh, “Julie & Julia.” I love that.

Kerry Diamond:

What's on your travel bucket list?

Barbara Costello:

We've been to Ireland. My husband's Irish. We've been to Italy. I'm Italian. We've never been to Lebanon or Israel or Greece. I would say when things settle down, I'd love to do a Mediterranean thing and get those off our bucket list.

Kerry Diamond:

That would be beautiful. All right, last question. We ask everybody this. If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?

Barbara Costello:

So, I was just on “The Drew Barrymore Show.” Believe it or not, I was a food critic. And I was like, if anybody cooks for me, I love them.Eric Ripert sat next to me. He's adorable, he's cute, he's lovely, and he's so talented.  I don't know. Eric, if you're listening, I would love you to be with me.

Kerry Diamond:

It's that accent. It gets everybody every time.

Barbara Costello:

Oh, I know. Isn't it? And he's such a gentleman, really.

Kerry Diamond:

And he's great with fish. So, if you're on this island, you won't starve.

Barbara Costello:

Yeah, I knew it. I made the right choice.

Kerry Diamond:

Babs, this has been so much fun getting to know you.

Barbara Costello:

Oh, you're a doll.

Kerry Diamond:

There's just something about you, and I think that's why-

Barbara Costello:

Tell my kids that. I'm just kidding.

Kerry Diamond:

I think that's why everyone on social media loves you so much.

Barbara Costello:

Well, you're a doll.

Kerry Diamond:

That's it for today's show. I would love for you to subscribe to Radio Cherry Bombe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave a rating and a review. Anyone you want to hear on an upcoming episode? Let me know. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazan is a studio engineer for Newsstand Studios. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Jenna Sadhu. And our editorial coordinator is Sophie Kies. Thanks for listening, everybody. You are the Bombe.