Camille Jetta Transcript
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Hi, everyone. You're listening to The Future Of Food Is You, a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Abena Anim-Somuah, and each week, I talk to emerging talents in the food world, and they share what they're up to as well as their dreams and predictions for what's ahead. As for me, I'm the founder of The Eden Place, a community that's all about gathering people intentionally around food. I love this new generation of chefs, bakers, and creatives making their way in the world of food, drink, media, and tech.
Today's guest is Camille Jetta, chef and owner of Dinner Party. Dinner Party is a cozy, communal restaurant located in beautiful Fort Greene, serving casual pre fixe brunch and dinner menus. It's one of my favorite restaurants in the city to catch up with old friends or meet new ones. Camille and I talk about how a life-changing year in France sparked an interest for food, how she leads a kitchen that has strong femme energy, her thoughts on the word chef, and her hopes to create more accessible restaurants and spaces to feed people. Stick around for our chat.
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Let's check in with today's guest. Camille, thanks so much for joining us on The Future Of Food Is You Podcast.
Camille Jetta:
I'm so happy to be here, Abena. Thank you for having me.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Where did you grow up and how did food show up in your life?
Camille Jetta:
I grew up in Connecticut. I was raised in a family of, at least, on my mom's side, of people who really love food. My mom was a very talented home cook who cooked for us literally breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I was that kid whose mom packed their lunch. Food was pretty central to my existence pretty much as early as I can remember. I started actually experimenting with food around age 10 probably.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What were some of the dishes that your mom was whipping up for the most part?
Camille Jetta:
Master of pot roasts and meatballs, especially in a rich brown sauce, like not your classic tomato. The thing that I weirdly always liked as my birthday dinner were her spicy chicken wings, and, specifically, Goya brand yellow rice with some sauteed spinach. Really random but I talk about that meal a lot.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Camille Jetta:
Yeah. She just had a way of basting the chicken and butter and Frank's Red Hot and just getting it so crispy, yet soft. That was a textural delight. She really switched it up. She kept it interesting, having to cook for a family of five.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You grew up in Italian-American too, right? On your mom's side, right?
Camille Jetta:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Did you have big Sunday dinners with the red sauce?
Camille Jetta:
My grandparents were ... It's interesting, because they grew up middle working class, but they were sort of bougie eaters in a way, so I feel like they were actually more French cooks by trade. They were actually famous for their dinner parties. I feel like they had a very sophisticated pallette and way of cooking. Yeah. I remember Easter brunches and eggs benedict is one thing, his Hollandaise, my Grampy's Hollandaise, in particular, was like ... It's still impossible to recreate.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Something that you've talked about just so beautifully is you spent some time in France, in your high school years, and I feel like there's something about food people going to France or Italy-
Camille Jetta:
We love to do that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. What was that experience like?
Camille Jetta:
First and foremost, because I was living with a host family, it really forced me to be open to trying anything, because when you're being fed by someone who isn't your mom-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Got to be polite.
Camille Jetta:
You have to be polite. You don't feel quite as comfortable being like, "I don't really like vegetables" or whatever. Yeah. I think that the emphasis on produce, which is not something we even, typically, think of as being a part of French cuisine, interestingly, but lots of vegetables, obviously, bread was everywhere and so huge, and I think that really deep in my bread obsession, I'd always loved it but that was when it became my favorite food.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Considering the French pride themselves on regions and I just say France, what part of France were you in and what are some of the most common things that were in that region?
Camille Jetta:
I was in Brittany, beautiful Brittany, northwestern France, and I feel like the classics that are thought of as classically Breton would be salted butter, that's, interestingly, a classic Breton Norman specialty. Yeah. Salted butter was everywhere and I only cook with salted butter, even for baking.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow. Dang.
Camille Jetta:
I will stand by that. Also, the after-school snack, like galettes, that's a buckwheat crepe in that part of the country.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Not the galette we know.
Camille Jetta:
Yeah. Not like the pie-folded galette, although, I love those too but, yeah, a buckwheat crepe that I would always get with egg. I guess Emmental cheese and ham and that was so good with some low ABV cider but really good dry apple cider.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. No. They're really known for their ciders up there in the Normandy, Brittany region. When you got to France, you were not coming out of the gate eating Emmental and galettes. You were quite a picky eater. You said something really funny where you said you spent an entire week at Disneyland only eating French fries and drinking milk.
Camille Jetta:
In my defense, I was very little when that happened.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
True. True.
Camille Jetta:
Yeah. I think that until I was a teenager, just because my mom really did make comfort classics, like food that no one could possibly argue with or be upset over, just hearty, delicious, meat-centric ... Complex but, yeah, classical, comforting.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What do you think started to pull you out of that picky eater phase? Other than, obviously, trying to be nice to your-
Camille Jetta:
My host parents.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
To your host family but what were some of the experiences just sitting and eating that changed the way that you saw food?
Camille Jetta:
I think just the freedom to walk around and the freedom of movement that I had really for the first time in my life, because I was living in a small city called Rennes and we just had so much independence. I think that that allowed me to also dictate when and how I was eating, and to eat out a lot for the first time in my life and, obviously, food was everywhere and not even just in sitdown restaurants but just so many bakeries and also they have so many specific stores there, a store just for cheese, a store just for fruit. I think just walking around, tasting, touching, really engaging all the senses with food, it was just you were truly immersed in it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You head to college at the famous University of California Berkeley. Go Bears.
Camille Jetta:
Go Bears. Go Bears.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
There we go. Obviously, that's almost like a mecca of sorts for food.
Camille Jetta:
Totally.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
With Berkeley Bowl, the Gourmet Ghetto.
Camille Jetta:
Oh my God. I miss that grocery store so badly.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It changes lives. Going to school there, what were some of the foods that you remember from that period that just sparked that love for food that you still have to this day?
Camille Jetta:
Gosh, so many things. In the Gourmet Ghetto, I worked at Grégoire, which was one of the first restaurants I visited when I was actually just visiting the school with my mom. Randomly, I was like, "I want these weird potato balls", that they would be so mad that that's the item that I'm calling out, and that didn't even end up being my favorite thing on the menu there but really, really good bread in Berkeley. You're going to notice that's a theme for me, because San Francisco sourdough is also, obviously, so famous.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Camille Jetta:
Cheeseboard Pizza was another classic that also sparked my lifelong addiction to a spicy green sauce that I still, obsessively, try to recreate at dinner party ... Like desert island food, that condiment would be on everything. Also, just so many good places around campus. There's this one café called Babette that has since moved but it was in the Berkeley Art Museum during my time at Cal, and amazing bread and pastry program, and I hate to say avocado toast but they had this way of making the avocado glossy. The way they smoothed it onto the toast just with some-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Dang.
Camille Jetta:
Obviously, again, amazing bread, incredible olive oil, and just I would get a perfectly jammy egg on the side. Yeah. I was eating out way, way too much as a college student-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
But you're eating out at the world's best bakery.
Camille Jetta:
Exactly.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The world's freshest produce. Yeah. For sure.
Camille Jetta:
California, I do miss it often times.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What were some of the foundational skills for cooking that you started to practice while you were in college and when did it start to stick of like, "Oh, man, I can really do this, I can cook, I can host people"?
Camille Jetta:
I think, for me, the point where you or where one starts to be like, "I'm actually a cook ..." Everyone can cook, should cook, always has cooked if you look at the whole stretch of human history but I think having ingredients in front of you and just trying to make something with them, not following a recipe, not looking up a recipe, just seeing what inspires you, using your intuition, I think that's the thing that gets lost.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back.
Kerry Diamond:
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Abena Anim-Somuah:
One thing I also admire about you is that you're an exceptional writer. I just feel like when you talk about Dinner Party and you just talk about your work, it's just so beautiful.
I remember reading the story of how Dinner Party started. Can you tell us what sparked the move to open your own restaurant and what Dinner Party is for those of our listeners who aren't acquainted yet with the space?
Camille Jetta:
Yeah. The description I wrote for Google, which I do feel is accurate, is that Dinner Party is an intimate, communally-minded, pre fixe restaurant in Fort Greene, in a beautiful space with a very storied history, actually have a couple very popular, successful, long-running, women-owned restaurants, so it feels very auspicious.
I really can only describe the move to open it as some sort of fit of madness or inspiration, but, basically, during the pandemic, I think I was just thinking a lot about what I wanted to do, I was contemplating law school, and I watched my amazing friend Vivian Lin open her business, Groundcycle, which is this composting, super amazing composting business.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So great.
Camille Jetta:
I think that she catalyzed me in a direct sense to actually consider starting a business and I started saying, "Well, maybe I'll do this in a couple of years", started just looking at spaces idly, not thinking that it would happen any time soon, putting together a business plan.
Then I happened across this space, which is really close to my house, and just fell in love with it and I think that in a way, I feel like it chose me, I didn't think it would happen as fast as it did, but I really hit it off with the broker, she took me way more seriously than I could have possibly anticipated. Yeah. It happened so fast. I think that's why it's hard to tell the story sometimes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I think you've created something so beautiful that a lot of people needed, especially coming out, still existing in the pandemic, and what I love about the space too, it's not just the space. It feels like your cool art history friend, or your fun grandma's dining parlor, because you've got those beautiful sunroom windows on the front.
Camille Jetta:
Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What I also love is about the sense of camaraderie among the staff. I feel like restaurants or everyone knows their place, everyone's got a system but it seems like everyone is helping out in this fun and lively way. When you were thinking about, obviously, the idea now coming to life with the space in front of you, how did you think about the team now and what does the system of work look like at Dinner Party?
Camille Jetta:
It's such a good question, and I think so much of what the feeling is among the staff comes out of just it being a labor of love really from the beginning. The restaurant was designed so beautifully by one of my best friends from college, Loryn Cook, that's L-O-R-Y-N, Cook-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Shout out Loryn.
Camille Jetta:
She's, ironically, not a chef herself but just a beautiful design eye. Getting to work with her on building the project and then when we were actually building it, all my friends were chipping in and helping. I always say a lot of love and camaraderie was just woven into it before it ever even opened. Then when we did open, everyone on the opening team, there was one good friend of mine and everyone else was a friend of a friend. Also, equally inexperienced, so I think that created a very DIY, horizontal style of working. At this point, the roles are a little bit more specialized. At the beginning, it was literally like-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Can you turn on the oven?
Camille Jetta:
Literally, people would come in and I'd be like, "What do you want to do, kitchen or front?" There were no job titles. Everyone did everything, which was so fun. As its grown and as we've scaled, people do have to have slightly more clearly defined roles but we definitely do all help each other. I like the cooks to do a shift upfront just to see what their coworkers are doing. I like the front of house people to come back into the kitchen.
I also think just something about how physically small the space is. We're on top of each other in the best way. It's not a lot of, especially big New York City restaurants, there's a prep kitchen, there's a service kitchen, the floor is so separate from the kitchen but it just feels like one big room.
Also, we carved that window between the kitchen and the bar, so we're always talking through it. The system of work is ever so slightly more specialized now, but, again, there's not a dedicated sauces cook or pastry cook anymore.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
No saucier.
Camille Jetta:
No. No. Yeah. I didn't even know these terms. Someone recently taught me the term garmo, and I was like, "What is that? What does that mean?"
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's strong femme energy in the kitchen.
Camille Jetta:
Oh, yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Especially, it's interesting that food is very nurturing, has been. When food is discussed at home, it's very motherly, but when it's discussed professionally, it's very male-dominated.
Camille Jetta:
It literally grinds my gears so much.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. I think that what I love about your restaurant is it's very female-dominated. It's very queer-driven. These are things that you also pride yourself in as creating spaces for queer people and for femme-identifying people to feel safe.
Have you seen your kitchen become a safe and empowering space for your staff? How do you think about it too on an industry level, where you're drawing inspiration from, to uphold that environment in your kitchen and that space in your kitchen?
Camille Jetta:
I think so much of creating a space where people feel safe, heard is really just about asking them what they think and including them in decisions, so from the beginning, the process of making the menus has always been collaborative. It's either me and, at least, one other person and we're all talking about food throughout the week but on levels big and small, I feel like it's very rare I'm making any decision unilaterally. I feel like I really try to ask the staff what they think, how they're feeling, what we should do, what direction we should go in, and also to make it clear that they are always going to be more right to me than the customer is, and I think that's something-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's powerful.
Camille Jetta:
It's hard, because small businesses, obviously, they really need every single customer, and I think there's a lot of fear about alienating customers but on an industry-wide level, I think making leadership more horizontal, also letting your employees try things and make mistakes, letting them experiment, and not being so obsessed with perfection, which, especially in the most fine dining places is so hard.
I think having an ever-changing menu really allows for that flexibility, because a lot of times it's not like, "Okay, this is how I want you to make this." It's like, "This sounds good but, Julie, you're going to make this sauce and I trust you. Do what you want to do to it. Teeny, you're going to grill the steak tonight and maybe you haven't done it before and maybe it's not going to come out as perfectly as if Joy", my CDC, "did it."
Just trusting that the other cooks in the kitchen have good instincts, and I know we'll probably talk more later about the chef title and why I don't like it but I think that just the mentality of chef knows best and that this is the way I want my food to be made. I very much view Dinner Party as a continual process of collaboration.
Yeah. I think that collaborative spirit, and I also think deprioritizing the customers and just making sure that you ... We love our customers and always want to treat them well but if a customer is being rude to Michelle, who is our longest-running server and was one of the opening team, I'm like, "Michelle, you can be rude right back."
Yeah. I also think in terms of inspiration, I think Berkeley has so many awesome examples of cooperatives and employee-owned restaurants and just that very communistic and pro-labor spirit, which I feel like just has formed my worldview so much.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Is that the structure you have now at Dinner Party in terms of what's the employee ownership model look like?
Camille Jetta:
No. It's not a co-op. I want so badly to go co-op but you do actually have to be profitable before you can-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's coming.
Camille Jetta:
... convert to employee ownership. My long-term dream for the restaurant would be for it to be employee-owned. In the meantime, I think just treating everyone like a manager unto themselves is the next best thing.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. That's awesome. How many staff do you have now in the restaurant? Full-time, part-time staff, how does that work out?
Camille Jetta:
The numbers are so malleable, because we have sometimes former staff will work a swing shift, and Loryn, my best friend, designer, will pop in but there are eight of us, nine with Loryn. She's actually a partner too, so not technically an employee but of those. Yeah. Nine, including me, so I guess seven.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Camille Jetta:
Of those, I think that three or four are full-time and the rest are pretty close to full-time, just not technically. Yeah. It's grown.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Strong but mighty team. Yeah. I remember when I first, when I think of it, it was just you and maybe two other people.
Camille Jetta:
Oh, yeah. Working at a time, it's only like four, at most, sometimes three.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You got to shift in and out. I know you mentioned the menu a little bit when you were talking about that flexibility, and so it is a pre fixe menu. It's so creative, but you're also gracious in terms of substitutions for allergies and dietary restriction, which I think you're very considerate. I think that's just a new thing industry-wide. What was the decision in building the menu this way? How has it helped foster collaboration and creativity within your staff or with your staff?
Camille Jetta:
I love that question. Chez Panisse was, obviously, a huge inspiration. Their menu changes daily, which is so like, "Oh my God."
I think I played with a few different models, but I feel like pretty early on, I knew I wanted it to be a set menu that changed, and I think it relates to the communal dining thing, because the way I thought about it is if everyone is eating the same thing and they're getting their food at the same time, that if nothing else, strangers will be able to talk to each other about the food, so I feel like the pre fixe serves the communal dining and the communal dining lends itself to the pre fixe.
Yeah. It's also just about seasonality, and the way that a weekly-changing menu allows you to really get into micro seasonality, new produce becoming available by the day, rather than designing things that are generally good for the time of year. We look at the weather even when we're making the menu.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
No way.
Camille Jetta:
Yeah. If it's going to be a really hot week or a rainy gloomy week, we definitely take that into consideration and I also just worried that I would get bored if we were cooking the same thing over and over.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Camille Jetta:
It allows people to bring their ideas and it also keeps us continually challenged as cooks. We're also not recipe testing most stuff. We're really just trying it out, which is why the price is lower on Tuesdays, because-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's R&D day.
Camille Jetta:
Yeah. That's the dress rehearsal that they're getting.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
No. I love that so much. Obviously, it seems like everything is changing, but what does a typical night of service look like? Let's say, obviously, Tuesday is dress rehearsal but on a Wednesday when all systems are go, what does that look like in terms of setting up dishes? What does service look like?
Camille Jetta:
First half of the week, there have been two cooks there just prepping all day, really for the weekend, which is our big push for all restaurants but two people have been there prepping. At four o'clock ish, the dinner team gets there and gets in to prep for the evening. Six o'clock, the front of house people start rolling in. Especially during the week, it's pretty low stress and easy.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. You're only open for dinner on weekdays?
Camille Jetta:
We're open for dinner Tuesday through Saturday, and on Friday and Saturday, we do two seatings. In the beginning, it was just one seating a night all week long. Now because of that double seating on Friday and Saturdays, the weekday dinners feel so easy, because we're like, "Oh, we just have to do this once and there was no brunch before. This is a breeze."
Yeah. On Friday, Saturday, Sunday, we also serve brunch, 12 to three, also pre fixe. Yeah. 7:30, or on the weekends, it's six, or at nine, guests arrive, hopefully, get a glass of wine, and-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You have an exceptional wine selection too. Yeah.
Camille Jetta:
Thank you. That's all thanks to our amazing som, Mike Sandoval. He has totally transformed our beverage program. It's awesome. The guests come in. It's pretty tight timing. At this point, we've done it so many times but about 7:45, first course, about 8:10, second course, 8:35, a main, and, hopefully, if we are on time, dessert around nine to 9:15, depending on the evening. It goes quickly. We have such a sense of that timing baked in but it's very ...
Also, that's the thing about the changing menu. Sometimes it feels like we're just skating and it's so easy, and other times, we're like, "Oh my God. We did not think about how hard this execution was going to be."
We also were trying really hard to get 20 plates out all at the same time. Obviously, they're rolling out of the kitchen as they're done but it's like with each course, there's a moment of really pushing. It's not like we're getting orders and filling them. Especially the main course, that's the only time we feel like slammed.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's like you know what to expect but how it manifests itself is often hard, which is-
Camille Jetta:
Right.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I'm sure which is nice, because you have a small space. It's not like you're getting ... If you look at the probability of X people ordering-
Camille Jetta:
Right. I don't know-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
... main plate one versus main plate two versus-
Camille Jetta:
Exactly.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
... the staff. Yeah. It's like you have to do a lot of mental math.
Camille Jetta:
It's amazing that restaurants do that. Obviously, it comes with a certain amount of waste, which is another reason that we went for the pre fixe just because we know, "Okay, we're going to have pretty much exactly 140 dinner covers this week, so we know exactly how much we have to prepare", short of dietary restrictions.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Of course. Yeah. Let's get into the waste and sustainability part, because I think the restaurant, not just in its food but in its aesthetic, its environment, most of the furniture, I'm guessing is upcycled.
Camille Jetta:
All of it actually.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
No way.
Camille Jetta:
Yeah. All of it. None of the furniture was purchased new. Loryn and I went, basically, upstate antiquing some of it, like our outside table, we just stooped literally. We just found that on the street.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
There you go.
Camille Jetta:
But it's beautiful and perfectly good.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
No. That's awesome. I think it's really fascinating but I'm curious to hear, as you think about the current state of waste and sustainability ... I feel like sustainability is a word that gets thrown around for any and everything.
Camille Jetta:
Literally.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
For the most part, which I guess it's good and bad, but how do you think the industry is working towards it right now? How do you think Dinner Party can inspire other restaurants to think critically about their sustainability and waste?
Camille Jetta:
I think the pandemic was horrible for sustainability and restaurants, because it forced so many places, in order to survive, to do to-go and takeout, which is, obviously, just a huge environmental impact with all of the plastic that gets used to execute takeout.
I also think, again, it's about being a little bit more freewheeling and less proprietary about recipes or styles of food.
I think we have a long way to go as an industry. I do think the business model of most restaurants just ... Yeah. By allowing people to order what they want just is ... Obviously, especially, if you have a menu that doesn't change for a long time, I think people can get more precise and know exactly how much to order and how people are going to order, but not that I want every restaurant in the world to be a pre fixe but I feel like I see it gaining popularity.
Even just having smaller menus, which is positive and I do see a lot of places moving towards, I feel like they heyday of the multi-page, anything you could want is on this menu, and they're probably keeping a lot of stuff frozen, which is also good for sustainability in its own way, because that's keeping food fresh and preserved-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I respect that.
Camille Jetta:
Yeah. Not requiring it to be thrown out at the end of the week. I do think smaller menus are great news for sustainability. I think it would be so, so cool to see more composting happening on a commercial scale. It's hard, because of just the sheer amount of waste that many restaurants are producing, but that would be the next big step.
I'm also just obsessed with restaurants or restaurant projects who really find ways to make use of every bit of their food scraps. Like actually into other things, whether it's making vinegars or fruit leathers or weird preserves.
Yeah. There's this project I really admire called We Are Slow Burn by a chef formerly of Rustic Canyon. I take so much inspiration just from what they're doing, really finding ways to use every bit that is edible, even if it's not necessarily the tastiest bit.
I feel like we see a rise in nose to tail butchery and things like that. Even if it's just making a vegetable stock out of your vegetable scraps or using the fishbones or whatever it is, just extracting as much use as possible, I feel like every bit of that helps.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I think that's so profound. I feel like especially in the last three years, we've come to terms with gender inequality, racial inequality, climate change, job insecurity and restaurants have just been a testament to how does a restaurant exist in this time?
Considering how much you think of your work, not just as feeding people but also I want to say, politically, how do you think about that in terms of how you hope Dinner Party continues to educate and exemplify the change that you want to see in society?
Camille Jetta:
Connection and community-building is so central to any movement for social justice and really connecting people face to face, because I do believe that online movements have their limitations.
It's my dream for Dinner Party, and also, hopefully, for future projects to be places where people can meet and talk about these things and continue to carve out space for cooks to feel empowered by the work that they're doing, and to also, as we were saying earlier, take back space that actually, historically, was for femmes and always has been and it's just so interesting to see that reversal, especially in the most rarefied dining spaces. I'm really excited about these Sunday nights that we're starting to do, which we're calling the Community Center.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Tell us more.
Camille Jetta:
Like half-affectionately, half-jokingly, but, yeah, walk-in only, trying to do super affordable snacks, just like $5 to $10, just literally using leftover produce at the end of the week to make ... Just making it into something new and whatever we can't make into something new, packing up into free little bags.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What I love about Dinner Party is you've created this communal eating space where you can come for a meal and meet a friend. I'm really curious to hear what the reception has been from customers and from the community on having a space like that in the neighborhood.
Camille Jetta:
I feel like it has really only gotten more and more positive with time, which is so, so encouraging. I feel like people in the beginning were quite skeptical, naturally, even though, I always say it's just reviving a very ancient, more classical way of eating, which is elbow to elbow, you would be meeting strangers out but I feel like people really, really appreciate it.
We've seen so many times when people sit down and you can see by their body language or their expression that they're very nervous and then we look over, by the second, definitely the third course, and they're-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. Shoulders are down.
Camille Jetta:
Yeah. Shoulders are down. They're laughing, they're talking, obviously, wine helps, but people write us notes on the check envelopes, and so many people just write the most effusive, beautiful things that are like, "What you're doing here is so special. This is so awesome. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for creating this space."
I got the loveliest DM from a customer who came in to dine alone, and totally made friends with her whole table and was like, "That was such a lovely night and I really needed it."
I do feel like, for the most part, people really, really have bought in and are super excited and encouraging and some people aren't into it but you can't please everybody.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
If you're for everyone, you're for no one, right?
Camille Jetta:
Well said.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. Before we get into manifesting, I want to talk about the term chef. Obviously, yes, chef or no, chef to chef. Why do you find that the term is limiting or does it add a sense of legitimacy to what you're building?
Camille Jetta:
I think it does and I almost feel like that's part of the problem, because I feel like we just have these notions of ... I did see The Menu, that's one restaurant movie that I saw and I feel like we do have this notion of just the chef god.
In French, chef means boss or head, so I think it's interesting that it's become synonymous with a leader or the boss of a kitchen. I believe etymology and the roots of words-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You're a language girlie.
Camille Jetta:
I'm a big language girlie. I think they imbue... Yeah. There's so many layers to a word, and so, for me, I feel like I chafe at the implication of almost absolute monarchy that seems to be inherent in the word chef, especially in its most literal, original sense.
Also, I do think there's this attachment of legitimacy and almost a mystification that happens around the word chef when I really strongly believe not we're just cooking, because I think cooking is so important and so fundamental and really a way to remind you that you're alive, but I also feel like I do, in some ways, want to take cooking off of this pedestal, because, also, I just don't like the way that some people are chefs and others aren't, because I really just believe humans are cooks. It's one of the things that makes us human.
I feel uncomfortable claiming chef, not because I think I am a great cook but I don't think I'm an absolute monarch or doing rocket science.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I'm curious. Do you think there should be a better term or a better sense of appreciation? Should we reclaim the word and take out the bossy nature of it?
Camille Jetta:
Right, because I'm like the meaning of words may be layered but they do change and now, obviously, does have its cooking implications. I think that there definitely is room to reclaim it. I think for people who are so proud of their cooking and, in some ways, define themselves by their cooking, I can totally see why that word would be empowering and, obviously, when people call me chef, I'm not like, "No, I'm not."
I'll call myself that and I'll sign my emails with that, but I think another reason that I chafe at it is just because I'm like, "There's also other things that I want to be known as" and I think it is a profession like doctor or lawyer, chef, you can almost picture in the textbook, a toque and a white jacket. It brings to mind just such a specific image, and I think for people who feel like that is a good descriptor or, in some ways, encompassing of their professional identity. Hell yeah, and, yes, chef. Treat your kitchen well but chef is great.
Yeah. I think, for me, I almost want to say cook, because then I can also say, and writer, and-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
She wants to be that multi-hyphenate.
Camille Jetta:
Yes. I suppose so.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's worth thinking about and thinking about how we use words and we use terms and how these terms further create more bridges in the system or if they create more equality.
We're huge manifesters on the podcast. I have to ask. Are there any dream projects that you hope to see Dinner Party work on in the next, let's say, three to five years?
Camille Jetta:
I think the big one that I'm dreaming of right now, and what I feel pretty sure my next tangible project would be, because I'm always "writing a book"-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Same.
Camille Jetta:
I'm saying out loud now that I will write a book, I better hold me to it-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I got you.
Camille Jetta:
Thank you. I'll hold you to it too. I think in terms of next restaurant projects, I really, really want to start a not-for-profit restaurant, so, basically, a soup kitchen but another term that I want to reclaim-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Dignify it.
Camille Jetta:
We can serve more than soup and it's not necessarily just going to be a big pot with a ladle, although, sometimes maybe we will serve soup but it would be my dream to find a way to make really good food and not only good food but the experience of hospitality just absolutely universally accessible, no bar to entry, and it's so hard, because there's also, obviously, spaces like diners and luncheonettes that are just affordable and accessible and all these things, but I would love to find a way to have great ingredients and make complex food, and pay employees well but make it truly available to anyone.
I see some people pioneering pay-what-you-can and I'm so curious about it, but I'm also like I feel like we could find people who would want to support a nonprofit like that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Of course. Yeah. I feel like you have so many food fan girling moments, people that you admire and are so inspired by. Are there any dream guests you want to come to Dinner Party for a little meal, a little pre fixe?
Camille Jetta:
This is a game that we used to play so often. Some of my answers are so impossible, because both my grandparents and my mom's parents have passed. They're definitely the first people that jump to mind. I just wish so much that they could see it, because it literally looks like their house.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Aww.
Camille Jetta:
It was designed to look like their house.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's beautiful.
Camille Jetta:
They were my biggest sources of inspiration, so the ghost of my grandparents, I hope you guys visit me.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
They probably already went.
Camille Jetta:
They're regulars literally. Yeah. There's also just so many amazing women chefs. One day, Alice Waters stumbles in and is like, "What is this place?"
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I could totally imagine her with her little shawl and she's-
Camille Jetta:
Yeah. She just happens across it somehow.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Camille, we're going to do our future flash five. I'm going to give you five prompts. You're going to give me first thing that comes to mind.
Camille Jetta:
Okay.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You ready?
Camille Jetta:
Ready.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay. The future of food history?
Camille Jetta:
Ancient.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of dinner parties?
Camille Jetta:
Eternal.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of restaurants?
Camille Jetta:
Free.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of food travel?
Camille Jetta:
Plane-less.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And finally, the future of cooking with your homies?
Camille Jetta:
Forever.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Camille, thanks so much for this rich conversation. I'm so excited to keep coming to Dinner Party, and just watch you grow.
Camille Jetta:
Thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
If we want to continue to support you, where are the best places to find you?
Camille Jetta:
We're on Instagram @DinnerPartyBK. Our outside table is now available for walk-in, so please walk on in at any of our seating times as long as it is warm outside.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Nice. Thanks so much.
Camille Jetta:
Thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Before we go, our guest is going to leave a voicemail at the Future Of Food mailbox just talking to themselves 10 years from now. You have reached The Future Of Food Is You mailbox. Please leave your message after the beep.
Camille Jetta:
Hey, Cam. Long time, constant talk. I guess the first thing I want to know is are you still in food or have you gone back to cooking for yourself and your loved ones and leaving it at that? Did you open the free restaurant you've been dreaming about? How far along is that quest to heal the world? Or are you off doing something else? Writing novels, leading the revolution. I would say I'm praying you haven't sold out, but I don't even want to acknowledge the possibility of selling out. I don't want to admit of that fear. No. I'd have to trust that you'd sooner die than become just another dilettante celebrity. I have to trust that you've kept your integrity and stayed off cigarettes and are drinking only a very reasonable amount of alcohol, if you're drinking at all. Is your sourdough starter still alive? Are you still in New York or are you off on the farm surrounded by your coven? I hope you've written, at least, one book. I hope you have a baby or two, perhaps a partner, or, at least, a great love that crescendoed before it went awry, that can be enough for a lifetime, you know. I hope in 10 years, your love for life is still very strong, stronger than the sadnesses that pass over you. I hope that food is still a way of reminding yourself of your love of life, your love of other people, your love of the Earth. I hope that it is still what it has always been for you, a way of resisting excarnation, a way of being right here.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's it for today's show. Do you know someone who you think is the future of food? Tell us about them. Nominate them at the link in our show notes or leave us a rating and a review and tell me about them in the review. I can't wait to read more about them. Thanks to Kerrygold for sponsoring our show. The Future Of Food Is You is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Thanks to the team at CityVox Studios, executive producers Kerry Diamond and Catherine Baker, and associate producer Jenna Sadhu. Catch you on the future flip.