Coldwater kitchen documentary transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. Each week we feature interviews with the coolest culinary personalities around. We have two exceptional individuals joining us today, Chef Jimmy Lee Hill and executive producer Desiré Vincent Levy of the documentary Coldwater Kitchen. Chef Hill is the executive chef instructor at Lakeland Correctional Facility in Coldwater, Michigan. Chef Hill has run the food tech program there for more than three decades, helping thousands of men at Lakeland learn about cooking, fine dining and hospitality, and gain crucial job skills in the process. But more importantly, Chef Hill serves as a lifeline for these men inside the prison system. Coldwater Kitchen follows Chef Hill and some of his students over the course of four years. The film made its debut last week as part of Doc NYC, the documentary film festival.
Chef Hill and Desiré will join us in just a minute to tell us more. If you are a new listener or a longtime fan of Radio Cherry Bombe, I'd love for you to subscribe to our free newsletter. You'll get our Friday email and be able to stay on top of all Radio Cherry Bombe guests, news and special episodes like our new baking mini-series, She's My Cherry Pie, hosted by Jessie Sheehan. I hope you all checked that out this past weekend. Head to cherrybombe.com to sign up for our newsletter. And while you're there, check out the new issue of Cherry Bombe Magazine. It's our 20th issue and the theme is Heart and Hospitality. You can order a copy of our print magazine from our website, or from your favorite bookstore or culinary specialty shop. Now let's check in with today's guests, Chef Jimmy Lee Hill, Desiré Vincent Levy, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Thank you for having me.
Kerry Diamond:
I know we pulled this together last minute, so thank you for going with the flow, but I saw your documentary last night, Coldwater Kitchen, and everyone in the audience was completely moved. So congratulations on putting this beautiful work out into the world.
Desiré Vincent Levy:
Thank you.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Desiré, let's start with you because you are an executive producer of the film. Tell me how the idea for Coldwater Kitchen came about.
Desiré Vincent Levy:
Ernest, who is featured on screen, and actually Chef might be able to speak better to the origin story of this because it was a series of correspondence between him, Mark Kurlyandchik, who is the co-director, and Ernest, who was one of the students in the program. So I'm actually going to kick that one to Chef.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, okay. So it started there. All right.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Yes, ma'am. Ernest, Chef Davis, he wrote a letter to... At that time, Mark was food critic for the Detroit Free Press. And he invited him to come. And so I didn't really know about it. Every year I do this symposium where I invite chefs in to talk to the class. So Mark called me and he said, "Hey, I'd like to come to this symposium." I'm like, hmm, I mean, I know what food critics do. They come in, eat the food, and he'll say, "Hey, they thought they was cooking, but it was really food loaf." And so I talked to the class and they said, "No, we don't know." But the one guy, which is in the movie also, Chef Dink, he said, "You know what, Chef? Let him come and we'll show him what we can do." I called him back and said, "Yeah, you can come." Because most of my class is from Wayne County anyway, which is where the Detroit Free Press is at. So that's how it happened, because of Ernest.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's so interesting. Who gets invited to the symposium?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Media folks. I invite chefs from the surrounding area. And so what it is, is it's basically we have an all day... It's a fun day for the class, like their Super Bowl, the class, because all these chefs are coming in with the chef coats. And so we talk about things that chefs look for when they hire. We talk about dress, the dress code and personal hygiene and what things that chefs like about the people that they're interviewing. And then we cook them lunch. We do a chop contest between two of the students and we'll have two chefs that will judge. And then after that fix them lunch. And so that particular day we did a wild game meal.
And Ernest, he did a wild bison, roasted bison with purple sweet potatoes, and there's a carrot jus that we had thickened. And the guy that said, "Let him do it," which is Chef Dink, he did, it was a roasted pheasant with a calvados cream sauce. And it was just all these different wild game. The guy that is in the film that is still incarcerated, Brad Leonard, he did a roasted pan-seared rabbit. And so we had all these different items. And so that's done every either first or second Monday of May when I invite these guys in. So this will be our sixth year coming up.
Kerry Diamond:
And how was it to have a critic in the room?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
I knew it could go soft anytime, but once he got the plate and he looked at the plate and he set it down and he took a picture and he tasted and I seen his reactions kind of went, and then the next plate and the next. It was a seven-course, and by four he was like that. And I was like, mm, that's pretty good. So after that, I think that year was the first Monday. And so that third week, it's always the restaurant lodging show in Chicago. And so I'm walking down the aisle in the McCormick Place and I see this lady pointing and she said, "There he goes, right there." So I thought I was in the way.
So I moved out of the way so she could see who was behind me, and she was like, "No, I'm pointing at you." And so it had been released, the article, and she had seen my picture. And I was just walking through the show and I didn't know it was released yet. And so about two, three minutes later, I get this text from Mark and he said, "Hey Chef, I just want you to know we released the article." And I said, "Yeah, this lady was pointing at me like, there he is right there." So that's how I found out that it had been released.
Kerry Diamond:
Now how did it go from article to documentary?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
So after it had hit the paper, it was an AP [Associated Press], so it went all over.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, they put it out on the wire.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
On the wire. And this company, I think it was a cable company or something in L.A., this is how I heard it, that they said, "Hey, we think we might want to do a Netflix or something like that. Netflix. And then it went from that to, well, the Free Press is going to do this documentary. So I'm thinking, wow, there's no way that the director is going to let those cameras into the facility, because that's heavy duty. And so when Mark said, I was like, mm, man. And so what he did was he talked to some people who talked to some people. I got this call one day, I was laying on the couch, which is probably good because he said, "Chef, we're going to do this. We're going to do this documentary." I'm thinking, oh, we're going to work in the parking lot somewhere? And he is like, "No, they okayed it." So that's how it came about.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow, that's remarkable.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Desiré, how did you get involved?
Desiré Vincent Levy:
Yeah, so Mark and Brian [Kaufman], the co-directors, had already been filming for, I want to say over a year before I came onto the project. But a mutual friend of mine and Mark's, and Chef Hill, actually, James Rigato, reached out to me and he said, "Mark's kind of in the beginning stages of this documentary and they're looking for someone who has a background in working in the criminal justice policy as well as in food, and you uniquely occupy both spaces."
So I just kind of started some conversations from there, talked to James. James connected me with Mark, spoke with Mark, and then spoke with the Free Press team and then all the legal stuff figured out and then I was signed onto the project. It's been one of the greatest experiences I've had. I knew this was special when the idea was first shared, when I got to understand who Chef Hill was and what he was doing. But just over time as things have unfolded, in climax last night with our first showing, I couldn't be more pleased with how things are going.
Kerry Diamond:
You mentioned occupying both spaces. What were you doing at the time?
Desiré Vincent Levy:
I started my career actually here in New York, and I worked at the Vera Institute of Justice at the Vernon Center for Justice. And I also worked as a reentry mentor at the Women's Prison Association. And then I moved to Detroit where I worked in communications at the ACLU [American Civil Liberties Union] of Michigan. But while I was in Detroit, I got started in food there initially, actually with my husband, we started a scholarship with the Detroit Food Academy for students who wanted to get into food full-time. Most of the scholarships were focused on four-year college degree, but there was an appetite for that.
From there, things just kind of snowballed and progressed and co-founded an organization with Chef Anthony Lombardo called Detroit Kitchen Terminal, where we are actually working to support people as they transition home from incarceration and to help them transition into careers in food. And then I'm also a board member at the Museum of Food and Drink here in New York. So it's just a very unique and weird combination of space. But I'm happy to be there because if I were not, then I wouldn't have had the opportunity to work on this film.
Kerry Diamond:
So Chef Hill, I want to go back to how you became involved in this program at Lakeland in the first place. Can you take us back to when you started there and how it came to be?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Initially I worked for the Department of Corrections in food service. I was a food service supervisor, basically supervised the inmates when they were preparing the meals. And so I started in 1985. I worked there for four years and I seen this interview or the article about the job opening. And so I took the interview and I got the job.
Kerry Diamond:
And the job being for this culinary program.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Yes, ma'am. And so it was for the food technology instructor at Coldwater Correctional Facility. So I took the interview and I got the job. I started there November 15th, 1989, which I just had my anniversary date. So I've been there now for 33 years. So that's how I got there was because I seen that job hosting.
Kerry Diamond:
And how has the program changed over the years?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
It is completely, totally different. When I first got there, it was kind of like a couple desks for the students to sit at and my desk in front. That was it. There was a locker had some books in it. It's changed immensely since then. I mean, it looks like a restaurant now.
Kerry Diamond:
Take us back a step even further. How did you get into the world of food in the first place?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Well, I grew up in a food service, so to speak, family. My mother is a dietician for Muskegon General Hospital in Muskegon, Michigan. And my father, we sold barbecue, everybody sells barbecue. We had this big garden and so he would prepare stuff to take to the foundries, fried chicken dinners and barbecue dinners. And then also because the garden was so big that he would bundle up greens and peas and tomatoes and all things from the garden and he would take that down there. And so he would sell the dinners to the guys for lunch, and then they would also buy those bundles of vegetables to take home so their wives could cook dinner. So I was always around food.
Every Friday we had a fish fry in our backyard, so we had this big iron cauldron thing and it was all kind of panfish and catfish and green bass and just all kind of fried goodness. And my mother would bring out side dishes out of the house to eat with it, like salads and different slaws and things like that. And I thought, man, every time I seen it, every Friday, everybody was always happy and things were just great. And I thought everything was right with the world on Fridays. And I thought, I think I'd like to do this. But I don't know, I think I was like eight or something. But every Friday from then on we had that. So that's how I got into it, because of my parents.
Kerry Diamond:
What were your first jobs in the industry?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
When I first got out of college, there were some people that would hang around our house, he owned a restaurant. And it was about the side of this room here. And so he said, "I'm going to have you come down and work for me." And I thought, okay, I could do that. And so it was so small, I mean, I did a good job with the food, but he said, "I can't pay you what you're worth." He said, "Even though people are coming in and there's no place to sit, but you deserve more than this." It was a mom and pop type place. So that was my first job. But then I got hired at Denny's Restaurants, I was a cook there, and I cooked for maybe a year and a half.
And then I got into the management program. And so they transferred me from Muskegon to Grand Rapids, Michigan, and from Grand Rapids to Lansing, Michigan, which is where I live at now. And that's how I got to Lansing because of Denny's restaurant. And so those are my first two food service jobs. And then next thing I knew, I took that interview and got the job for Michigan Department of Corrections.
Kerry Diamond:
What you do for these men is so remarkable, but what you seem to go through emotionally is equally remarkable. How have you held this job for as long as you have?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
I had a conversation one time with my mother. She said, "Baby, I hope you stay on your first job as long as I stayed on mine." I'm like, "Ma, that's 36 years. Who does that?" And this past Tuesday, it's 37 years I've been in the food service in the Department of Corrections and 33 years in the classroom. I don't know, I think it's because of her, and God's grace. Because prison is still prison and there's a lot of different attitudes there and a whole boatload of emotions. So I'm still there because I think I'm supposed to be there.
Kerry Diamond:
How do you handle being a lifeline for so many people?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
I wear a lot of hats, I do. I'm a chef, I'm a teacher, a pastor, informational banker type person. But I touch on a lot of things because they have a lot of different questions that they want information and answers to. So I just try to lead them in the right direction.
Kerry Diamond:
Can you walk us through what the food tech program is exactly today? You talked about how it's evolved so much to the point where you're all making restaurant quality food in the program.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Well, it was my thought always to set it up like a restaurant. It's warm colors. And I thought because they're locked up, they should also be able to learn the same information that you get from Johnson & Wales or CIA [Culinary Institute of America] or whatever culinary school that you attend. And so I always tried to kick it up like Emeril, I tried to kick it up a notch information-wise. And food, ingredients, because I thought that they needed to know how to prepare high end quality food. And there's nothing wrong with hot dogs and hamburgers, but I just wanted them to get the food that would get them in a position to work in Chef Rigato's Mabel Gray or Selden Standards or somewhere where they could make a living and take care of their families. And so that's why we do the kind of food that we do, to make sure that they touch on all of the culinary things that go on out there in the world.
Kerry Diamond:
One of the things, and Desiré, maybe you can talk about this, that is so striking but also heartbreaking about the documentary is Chef Hill's kitchen is a bubble of sorts and you don't really see what's outside the bubble in the prison. And you just know what's waiting for them outside is awful and ugly. Were you not allowed to film outside the kitchen or did you make the decision not to film outside the kitchen?
Desiré Vincent Levy:
From my understanding, there was not permission granted. And I don't know if there's any reason why there would need to be since the focus and the celebration is on Chef Hill. And something that I really hope comes across is that Chef Hill's program is an exception, but it should be the rule for the types of programming that is offered. If we're going to incarcerate people, then we need to offer meaningful opportunities for people to get skills that they can use once they transition back into community. Because a lot of people are going to be transitioning back into community so we need to just do as much as possible to make sure that people are supported in that transition.
Kerry Diamond:
Chef Hill, are there many other programs across the country similar to yours?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
In the Michigan Department of Corrections we have 11 throughout the state. So I mean, in terms of other states and their facilities, I'm not sure. I just know that we have 11 total. It used to be 14, but through closing of some facilities, we're now down to 11.
Kerry Diamond:
And do you go around to lecture to other places? I mean, are people reaching out? I mean now they will, but have folks over the years been reaching out to you about how to set these programs up?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Yes, some of those have, but the lecture part, I don't know how... That's really funny there. No one has ever asked me to do that. But some have asked me how the program started and how we rewrote the curriculum. I am so humbled that people would even think to do stuff like this and this and talk about the program. I'm like, there's a whole bunch of things, and people that you could talk to besides me, because I'm just a cook at the end of the day, really.
Kerry Diamond:
Can you tell us what PUSH means?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Pray Until Something Happens. It just makes sense. I believe that if something is worth having, it's worth praying for. Everybody has something that they look forward to or that they want. And so I just always say PUSH, just pray until something... Something is going to happen. It may not be the way that you want it sometimes, but it's going to happen if you continue to put that out there.
And you also have to believe in the higher being. But I think if you're praying, obviously you believe that there's something out there or you wouldn't be doing that. So I just continue to pray that those guys get a better chance, second opportunity, because everybody deserves a second chance. And so we push that a lot. Got a few irons in the fire myself there, I think, I need a second chance for a few things and so I continue to pray about them.
Kerry Diamond:
How many men have gone through your program?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Thousands, because I've been there for 33 years. And everybody that goes through, they're not going to be a chef. I mean, that's definitely a given. A lot are there for the food, because, I mean, there's no other way to say it, but the food is amazing, it is. I mean, we pump out a lot of food out of that. It's like this size right here, two sides, cold side and the hot side. But we pump out a lot of food. And so we sell tickets every other Thursday. We do about 125 covers. For $7 you get appetizer, salad, entree, dinner roll, dessert and beverage. And sometimes there's some amuse-bouches we throw in. And then during the summertime when we got the gardeners and it's booming, there's so much produce, so we just do more food. So for that $7 you make it 7, 8, 10 courses.
Kerry Diamond:
And folks on the community can buy those tickets?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
In the facility, the employees, the wardens, wardens' secretaries, the maintenance staff, health services. And we do about 20, 30, 40. We do 45 or so students and the rest are the workers, employees, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
So you said not everyone who goes through the program is meant to become a cook or a chef, but you have had some notable alums from your program.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Yes, ma'am.
Kerry Diamond:
And you focus on some of them in the documentary. Desiré, can you tell us about some of the folks who graduated from Chef Hill's program?
Desiré Vincent Levy:
So in the documentary you have an opportunity to intimately know three individuals, Brad, Chef Dink and Chef Ernest. Chef Ernest, as I understand it, he is working professionally in a food kitchen right now in leadership. And Chef Dink, he took the entrepreneurial path and he opened his own restaurant, the GreenMile Grille in Detroit. I've had their food and it's great. And then Chef Brad, who is still incarcerated, said that he intends to get back into food service or cooking once he is released in 2024.
Kerry Diamond:
Chef Dink seems like he was born to be a famous chef.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
He is so swagged out. But he is such a good person. I mean, everybody do some things. He did some things and he got caught. He did his time, he learned a craft and he is working on it all the time to make it better. And so I always say that he went from prisoner to proprietor because of the route that he chose. And I think it's good for him because it also keeps him grounded. Because you got to want to be in food service to be in food service. You can't fake that. And so he does a good job at doing his job and I'm extremely proud of what he's accomplished. He has a restaurant and a food truck. That's heavy duty.
Kerry Diamond:
So the documentary premiered last night as part of Doc NYC. I was so surprised how many people from the film were there.
Desiré Vincent Levy:
Yeah, well, it was always the intention that for this showing and any others we have that everyone from the film who we see on screen is able to be present, just because there are follow up questions, and then overall should be framing their own experience from their own mouth. So having everyone there also just to see the hard work that they put in, because there's a lot of appreciation for the producers and director team and all of that but the real stars of course are Chef Hill and the students that allowed us into their space and to share their story with us.
Kerry Diamond:
And their families.
Desiré Vincent Levy:
Yeah, absolutely. Yes, the families as well. Because when you think about incarceration, families get incarcerated as well because they are the support people who were there for the individuals as well.
Kerry Diamond:
Chef Hill, did you see the film for the first time last night?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
That was my first time. I stayed away from it, and it was, man, from the time that people started to talk about it was going to be released, people were saying, "So how is it? I can't wait to see it." And I was like, "Well, they won't let me watch it." It's like, aww. I was like, no, I didn't want to see it until it was in his entirety. It was amazing to me, to see me there is the part that is unbelievable. I wish my folks was around to see that because that's what they did, or that's what we did growing up. So it was nice.
Kerry Diamond:
One of the most shocking and saddest parts of the film for me was to learn that when the men are paroled that they can't have any contact with you. So you have been a lifeline for these men for as long as they go through that program and then once they're released they can't talk to you. I was so confused and upset to learn that, and everyone in the film talked about it to some extent, but can you explain that a little bit more to folks who are like, what are you talking about exactly?
Desiré Vincent Levy:
Yeah. I can't remember actually right now if it's the over familiarity or familiarity.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Familiarity. Yeah.
Desiré Vincent Levy:
And so there's a distance that you have to keep from people who are still inside of the institution until you're off paper, which is you're off parole. From what I also understand, it's written in a way that it might be vague so people just kind of err on the side of caution to not have any violations that could cause them to go back inside. That might be something to look at, to see if possibly the language could be rewritten to have more clarity so that it's just clear what decisions can be made. Because if there is an opportunity for people to still have contact with Chef Hill or anyone else that was really instrumental in their growth and development and would be a lifeline once they transition back home, because that's a hard transition, that would be something that should be considered.
Kerry Diamond:
And that's such a vulnerable time for them and their families for them to have no contact with you, especially in a professional capacity. They're interviewing for jobs, they're working in professional kitchens for the first time, and can't even so much just send you an email.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
No. And it depends on how much time that you had left. When you get out, you still have to probation before you're really totally off. So sometimes, like Ernest, when he got out, he still had four years he was on tether and he still had some more time to walk down. So I couldn't talk to him or have any contact with him.
Kerry Diamond:
And can you explain what tether means?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
The tether, where they put that ankle bracelet on and it allows them to keep track of where you are and where you're supposed to be at the time that you're supposed to be there. So it's kind of like it's a electronical handcuff.
Kerry Diamond:
Would you rewrite that rule if you could, about them being allowed to reach out to you?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Yeah, because I think you should be able to, because like Chef Ernest said the other night, they've been locked up for so long. And you grow accustomed to being with this person every day because of what you're doing in the right way. And so you grow accustomed to that and then all of a sudden you look up and you're out. And if you continue to follow on that path, you still want that information to come from the person who has been feeding you that information. You're like, I still got two years to do on paper, so can't talk to them. Either you're going to mess up or you're not. You know the consequences, so you're not going to do anything that's crazy. But I just don't think verbally it's such a bad deal.
Kerry Diamond:
It seems unusually cruel, as does much about the...
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Well, Chef Dink, it's the same way. He was trying to set up his business and there was a lot of questions that he had in terms of inspections and things that need to be in line before you even start the restaurant. But I couldn't talk to him. So he talked to Chef Rigato. Their bond is good too. But as soon as he got off parole, he called me, he's like, "Man, Chef, I'm done, man. I need you to tell me about how we get this going." And it's just a part of correctional life.
Kerry Diamond:
You've been involved in that life for so long now I would imagine you could write an entire book about how you would change the system.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
I hope you're listening got there, Mark Kurlyandchik. We've been talking about that. We actually came here two years ago to meet with the literacy agent. So it's in the works, but we just got to restructure. I really want to do the complete traditional cookbook, and they want to do more of a memoir with some recipes in there.
Kerry Diamond:
Just for folks who've had no exposure to incarceration or what the prison system is like, I mean, it's well documented today just how awful and unfair the system is. But what are some things you would change?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
I mean, the familiarity, I think that could be smoothed out some. We used to not be able to keep track of them. And then six, seven years ago somebody said, "We should keep track of those guys." It's like, we've been saying that for 20 years. So now we keep track of them. So there's a lot more out there that we didn't track and we don't know what they did. And there's a lot of them out there that's doing food service stuff, we just couldn't talk to them at that time. So it's different. Corrections is different.
Desiré Vincent Levy:
One thing that we see on screen, Brad talks very openly about his challenges with substance use. I have family members who have their own challenges with that and are incarcerated as well. And it just seems like there needs to also be a better and a different response, because that's a real sickness that people live with and deal with. And sometimes incarceration is the response to it. But Brad says with his own mouth that it's not the environment for someone to get the help that they really need. So there's a lot to say about the carceral system, but just in relation to the film, I want to lift that up because Brad spoke to that. And he's still inside, but he was very candid about his challenges with substance use.
Kerry Diamond:
Chef, what would you like people to come away with after seeing the documentary?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
I just want them to see, or at least feel like these guys deserve another chance. And I say it all the time that television has messed it up for prison because all you see is playing cards and lifting weights and basketball and fighting. But there's so much more in the department in terms of education, different trades and things like that, that you never hear about because the breaking news is five inmates was fighting over on the south side of the campus. And it's more than that. So I want them to come away with the fact that they see what they do in my class because all the programs are structured the same way, it's just different content. But in mine you see the food. So I want them to come away with the fact that they went in to learn this trade, to prepare food properly, make sure that the bacterias and everything is in check, you don't want to kill nobody.
Kerry Diamond:
Nope. Food safety.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Food safety is at the highest level and they obtained it. And so they'll get a chance to see the film and go, "We hear about all this stuff that go on but we never see this." And so they will have a different perspective when they see it. I worked there all these years and I had a different perspective myself, and I seen it yesterday because I was so amazed that... We just talk all the time about it. And even though I see it in real life in the classroom, it was different than yesterday when I seen the film, because then it brought back to me that I remember talking to that guy about that and I remember when this happened. And it was just unreal to see me up there for the right reasons.
Kerry Diamond:
Desiré, how about you? What do you hope the takeaway is?
Desiré Vincent Levy:
I have a few. Well, first, when there's dialogue going on about the criminal justice system and its issues and all of that, there's this temptation to ask people to choose a side of, you have to look at it this way or you have to look at it this way of seeing everything is all bad or all good. And I hope the film lets you understand that that is not true. The approach to dealing with a lot of issues but talking about the criminal justice system in particular, it's dynamic. And there are people like Chef Hill who are working inside to really make a difference, as well as people who are outside. So I don't want that to be lost. It's a dynamic effort and that needs to be respected and appreciated.
I also just can't help but think, what if there were more community-based programs like Chef Hill's on the outside that caught people like young kids as they were deciding what to do in their next steps in life. Because that could be a difference in someone's trajectory where maybe they would never even end up on the inside. Just investing more resources in community. I just hope that the film leaves people with a lot of questions, with the biggest and best question being what can they do themselves to make a difference? Like Chef Hill, everyone's difference is going to look different. Just what can they do and then getting activated around that.
Kerry Diamond:
Chef Hill, we have a lot of folks who listen to the show who work in the food world. And I asked you this question last night and you weren't sure what the answer was, but I would love to know how the folks out there could help you and your program.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
I mean, we've had people who have donated cookbooks, some things we're not allowed to accept because somebody might be incarcerated in your family that you work in this food business and you was giving us this food and over-familiarity. So there's some channels that you have to go through to be able to do some things. All I can say is that if they reach out to me email-wise, we could walk through some things and see if it's right for us, so we won't get on the other side of that over familiarity. That's the best I got, is to just reach out and we'll see if what you want to do works for both parties.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you looking forward to retiring, or is it going to be hard for you to walk away from this?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
I don't feel like it's time. I drive an hour to work so 134 miles round trip times five days, I'm 50 plus a year thousand. But it's not a bad drive and it's basically from me to you except that's 67 miles. It's a straight shot. So it's not bad. In the fall there's deer season, started Tuesday. They'll be shooting at the deer. Can't be mad at the deer for running across the street, you just got to watch out for them. And when it's storming, the trucks are out by the time I get out in the morning, plowed. By the time I get off,. Plowed. It's not a bad drive and I like my job, I just want them guys to be able to, like in Chef Davis, 35 years. He almost lost his mind yesterday in New York.
Kerry Diamond:
Right. He had received a life sentence.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Yeah. So he got a chance to live some stuff yesterday and experience some stuff that, one, he had never did before, and two, he would have never gotten a chance to do ever. The food is strong, it's the ultimate dot connector. So now he's here in New York City.
Kerry Diamond:
I love that your answer is to talk about someone else other than yourself, Chef Hill. You mentioned that there might be some books in your future, but I can't see you just spending your time on the couch in retirement.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Well, that couch is draining. I try to let it drain me sometimes because it feels so good. I don't see me sitting around either. If something comes up, Mark, get this book done and we'll see what happens.
Kerry Diamond:
And Desiré, how about you? This is your first documentary that you've ever produced?
Desiré Vincent Levy:
It is.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you see more in your future?
Desiré Vincent Levy:
I certainly hope so. My background is in communications, so this is an evolution of that, but it's just been a really enjoyable experience to work on expressing something visually in the process and editing and commentary and everything that goes into the final product. And then also in the process, being able to work with so many different people and meet so many different people. I certainly hope this is not the last film project that I have the opportunity to work on.
Kerry Diamond:
And Desiré, I would be remiss if I did not talk about your family. You have a remarkable mom, Chef Tommi Vincent, who has been on Radio Cherry Bombe before. You come from a family that is very much about family and faith and food. What was it like growing up in that family? And football, I should add, the fourth F is football in your family.
Desiré Vincent Levy:
Yeah. I mean, it's a wild bunch. My mom and my dad are both very strong and absolute individuals in their visions of what they want for their lives and what they want for their families. Sometimes that's been a lot of pressure. But as I've gotten older, I've come to appreciate just the standard that they've set for what we should be expecting for ourselves and what we do in life. They were at the premier last night and it felt really special. The joke about my dad is that he doesn't always know what's going on because he's just doing a million things. So he thought I was in a play, even though I've been talking to him about this, he thought I was in a play.
So afterward someone told me that and I was like, are you kidding me? But I'm glad they were there. He had nothing but great things to say about Chef Hill and Chef Dink and Chef Ernest. And he just was expressing so much pride for me being a part of it, but also for the team that we spent the time and resources bringing such an important story like Chef Hill's to the forefront for people to see.
Kerry Diamond:
But you really do have a remarkable family. Your mom has done so much to help female chefs in this industry, but also women who are stuck in the cycle of domestic violence.
Desiré Vincent Levy:
Yeah. They've been an example to me for a great deal of things. And I can't believe I even forgot to say this, but my interest in food at all is just because I come from a legacy of a lot of people who cook, maybe not always having the formal training of culinary school. My mom went to culinary school, but even before that, my grandmothers and my grandfather, all really, really excellent cooks, will throw you down. And I just feel so grateful that Chef Hill talked about his family and just things felt good, they felt right. When my family gets together around a meal, we're all cooking something and contributing a dish. That's one of my favorite times of year, where everything does feel right. It feels great to be in community together, just sharing a meal together.
Kerry Diamond:
Chef Hill, before I let you go, I feel like I still haven't scratched the surface of who you are. The leadership you show in the film in Coldwater Kitchen is remarkable. And I don't know if you think of yourself as a leader or your leadership skills are something you work on, but I'm so curious. Were you a natural born leader?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
No, mm-mm. I mean, I don't know. It's just about the food, and the food led me to where I'm at. I never think about things like that. You do what you do, and if you do it right, I guess they'll follow you. I never thought about that. Let's just go to work and try to get those guys prepared and ready to get out there and do some things.
Desiré Vincent Levy:
I would like to say that Chef Hill is very humble and that is one of the most endearing qualities about him. So I don't ever want to push him to be something that he's not. But since he's not going to say the things, I'm going to say the things. Chef Hill is absolutely a leader because it's not a small task to be able to show up physically and mentally and emotionally and day after day with this drive, with the hardships of incarceration and being in that every day to be a teacher, to be a guide, to be a resource, to be a mentor. And doing it with so much compassion and so much empathy and meeting people where they are individually, that is absolute leadership.
Maybe you would call it servant leadership, but that is absolutely leadership. We lead in different ways, in different capacities and in the spaces that we are in. Leadership doesn't just look like being the governor or something like that. But that is absolutely leadership, and being humble in leadership is important. I think that a lot of our leaders could stand to be that way. So I'm going to let that ride, but it is absolutely leadership and I'm grateful that he continues to make the decisions that he makes every day to show up the way that he does.
Kerry Diamond:
When's the film coming out?
Desiré Vincent Levy:
So we're premiering this week at Doc NYC with our first screening last night. There's another today at 5:15 PM. And then it'll be available online until November 27th. After that, the best way to find out what's going on is to visit our website, which is www.coldwaterkitchen.film. And subscribe to our email list where you can hear about upcoming festival plans. Really looking forward to April with the Detroit Free Press Film Festival where we'll hopefully have... Well, I know we'll have a screening, but then also hopefully be able to taste the food of Chef Hill and some of the other chefs on screen. So looking forward to that. But any plans that we have, that will be the first place that people can find out about it, to join our email list.
Kerry Diamond:
So tell me again, you can watch it online through the 27th?
Desiré Vincent Levy:
Yep. So you would visit the Doc NYC Festival website and you can buy an online pass, I believe for $12 and screen it from your phone or on your computer.
Kerry Diamond:
Worth every dime. And then some. Thanksgiving is right around the corner. You do a Thanksgiving dinner and you ask folks... Was it a Thanksgiving dinner?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
We would do Thanksgiving for the class. It's just basically for the students. And it's everything that you've eaten growing up. Some guys haven't eaten Thanksgiving meals in decades. And then for those who were there last year and got incarcerated, so this Thanksgiving, they won't be there. So we do a meal and everything that you've had. There's no recipes, we just go in the kitchen and said, "Yeah, my mom used to make this and I remember how it tastes." And so we would recreate it. And so then about 1:30, when it's time to eat, connect all the tables and everybody sits around the table. And the first thing we do is say, okay, let's start here and give us one thing that you're thankful for. And it takes about 20 minutes to go around the whole room, but you get a chance to feel what they feel.
Some people will say, "Well, I'm thankful for Chef Hill because if he wouldn't have did this," but that was not why we want you to say what you're thankful for, just what makes you feel good. And a lot of people say, "Well, I'm thankful for my family, I'm thankful for the class." And so then we eat, and it is a great meal because everybody has something to put into it. And then they feel like, "Man, my mama must be in the kitchen because this tastes just like she..." We get a lot of those. So yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Chef Hill, what are you thankful for this year?
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
I am thankful for the chance for this to come to fruition. Four years is a long time. We do know that sometimes it takes more than four years. But I'm thankful that it's getting ready to be out there. I'm thankful for Mark and Brian. I'm thankful for my friend here, Desiré, the calming sense that she has brought to it. I'm just thankful that we can get these guys ready so they can get out there. They're missing a lot. I'm out every day and I'm missing tons, so just imagine how it is for them. So I'm thankful that they're going to get... Everybody that's there is not going to be there forever. So I'm thankful that they'll get a chance to get out and experience some of this.
Kerry Diamond:
Desiré, how about you?
Desiré Vincent Levy:
I'm thankful for a lot, but for the sake of naming one thing I'm going to say I'm thankful for food. Food as a great convener, it brought me to this film team, which has been a really remarkable experience in my life. It brought me to Chef Hill and to the chefs that we meet on the screen. Well, and it brought us here because Cherry Bombe.
Kerry Diamond:
Right. Chef Hill, welcome to the Bombe Squad. You're an honorary male member of the Bombe Squad now. Well, I'm certainly thankful for you both. I mean, you've put a beautiful thing into the world and we could use more humans like you too.
Desiré Vincent Levy:
That's so nice. Thank you.
Chef Jimmy Lee Hill:
Thank you. I appreciate it.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you so much to Chef Jimmy Lee Hill and producer Desiré Vincent Levy for joining me. As Desiré mentioned, you can watch Coldwater Kitchen now through November 27th via docnyc.net. You can also go to coldwaterkitchen.film to learn more and sign up for their email. We'll share all of these links in our show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of Cherry Bombe Magazine. Our theme song is by the band Tra La La. Thanks to Joseph Hazan, studio engineer for Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center and to our assistant producer Jenna Sadhu. Wishing you and your loved ones a happy Thanksgiving. And please know I'm thankful for all of you. You are the Bombe.