Courtney Storer Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine, and each week, I talk to the most interesting women and culinary creatives in and around the world of food.
Joining me in the studio today is Courtney Storer, culinary producer of the hit show "The Bear," which returns to Hulu this Thursday, June 22nd. When the first season of "The Bear" dropped last summer, it was an immediate hit with the restaurant world and beyond. "Yes, chef," was certainly the catchphrase of the summer. The show captured the comradery and chaos of restaurant life in a way that few works of fiction ever have or non-fiction for that matter, except, of course, Anthony Bourdain's “Kitchen Confidential.” Courtney, who is the chef herself and the sister of the show's creator, Christopher Storer, is a big part of why "The Bear" has so much heart and soul. She has had such an interesting journey through the food world and gained so much wonderful perspective. I am thrilled I was able to chat with her. For those of you worried about spoiler alerts, don't worry. Courtney was a vault. Stay tuned for our chat.
Do you have the OpenTable app on your phone? If not, it's time to download that app. There's a world of wonderful restaurants and more waiting for you. OpenTable helps bring restaurants and diners together, making great meals easier to find at more than 50,000 restaurants around the globe. I use my app to make reservations, bookmark my favorite female-fueled restaurants, and look up dining experiences in my area. You can even use the app to explore takeout and delivery options.
Another reason to make sure you have the OpenTable app. OpenTable is the only place where you can book a seat for our upcoming dinner series. OpenTable is partnering with Cherry Bombe for the Sit With Us series, highlighting amazing female chefs and restaurateurs on the OpenTable network. We'll be at Olamaie in Austin on July 13th, Zou Zou's in New York City on July 17th, AOC in Los Angeles on July 24th, and Foreign Cinema in San Francisco on July 27th. Come by yourself and sit with us, or bring a friend or two. It's going to be an evening of beautiful food, community, and connection. I hope to see some of you there.
Now, let's check in with today's guest. Courtney Storer, welcome back to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Courtney Storer:
Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.
Kerry Diamond:
I am so happy and in person this time.
Courtney Storer:
Ugh, even better.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's jump right into it. You are the culinary producer of "The Bear." What does that title mean?
Courtney Storer:
A lot of different things, and I always try to explain that by being like, "On a macro level, it's everything from..." Before we even start production, it's looking at the concept for the second season. "Where is the show going? What kind of things are being focused on? Is there any input that I can give to either the writers' room or the producers about experiences that I've had?" I think as a culinary producer, it's bigger than just saying it's just the food on the show. A lot of coordination and communication goes into talking to the restaurant community at large and using all the amazing resources that I've built over the years to collaborate and bring different energies and different perspectives to the show because it's not just within the script. It's so much broader. It's bigger. Before we start filming, I work closely with the actors on some development skills, so it's like you know it's that training movement. Is it cooking specifically, or is it just terminology that they can use when they're filming that makes it feel a little bit more natural? Part of that is also arranging stages for the actors. So I work as the liaison between them and the different restaurants.
Kerry Diamond:
That's fun.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Can you tell us about some of the stages folks did?
Courtney Storer:
Yeah. I mean, for season one, Jeremy [Allen White] was at Pajo Lee, and then Ayo [Edebiri] did a couple restaurants in New York. Lionel [Boyce] worked with me, Ayo worked with me, and it was just setting up based on who's doing what when. So, for season two, I can't give too much information about who went where yet, but I was so lucky that so many chefs were willing to bring in the cast. I know we had a couple new people that wanted to learn a little bit more or get a little bit more comfortable in certain areas, so I really appreciated all the people who allowed our team in this year for season two.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you right on set as they're filming?
Courtney Storer:
Every day.
Kerry Diamond:
Every day?
Courtney Storer:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay.
Courtney Storer:
Mm-hmm. It's really important because it's a different perspective, obviously, but as a producer, it's so much bigger than just looking at the character chopping an onion. It's also like how do chefs carry them in an authentic way? As much as I can help the actors, I love to be there as a resource, and they're so amazing at asking questions. If it's giving a little bit of direction, they're super receptible to hearing it out, and then also bringing their own energy to it, which I found really, really interesting. Watching Ayo, for me, I mean, I would get emotional because she has a confidence just as a person in the world. She's so smart, and creative, and brave.
I was just thinking back to all these years ago, I would've loved to see her on the screen as a chef. It would've been so inspiring for me to see that. It probably would've given me a little bit more courage or bravery. I'm sometimes in awe at how much she can display that, that confidence, that courage. You can just see it in how she carries herself, and I hope to be an inspiration to the people who act on the show, but they also are doing the same for me in a lot of inspiring ways too.
Kerry Diamond:
In a little bit, we'll talk about your chef life, but I loved learning some of the little things you incorporated into the characters. I read last night that with Ayo, you have her with a clipboard because back in the day, you showed up somewhere with a clipboard, and the male chefs were not that thrilled that you showed up with the... all organized.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah. I was the organizer, the equalizer. Someone used to call me like, "Oh, the equalizer." So I'm like, "What does that even mean?" You know? I think it was also like... I hate to say it, but there were times where having something in my hands, as silly as that might seem, it was like a little shield.
Kerry Diamond:
I can see that.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah, and gave me direction, and focus, and purpose to stick to for the day, like an agenda. So I would get out of my head a little bit and stick to the task at hand because sometimes in kitchens, there's a lot of mind games, and it's hard, and there can be things that can throw you off. So I definitely had that Sydney vibe in a lot of jobs, but I think over time, that clipboard also meant that things were systemized, organized. Things were ordered on time. We had produce when we needed it. Our dairy never ran out. We'd done 86 things off the menu. There was a benefit to it that eventually the kitchen team would see. It took time, but I think I won a lot of people over.
Kerry Diamond:
Good to hear it. Your brother is Christopher Storer, the creator of "The Bear." When did he tell you he wanted to write a show about restaurant life?
Courtney Storer:
Well, Chris has been in the restaurant world peripherally and doing a lot of different food projects with chefs. I mean, I remember when I had first moved to L.A., this is like 14, 15 years ago. Well, even before I was in L.A., he was looking at doing things with Thomas Keller and working with Chef Roy Choi in L.A. to create a docuseries based on Locol that Daniel Patterson and Roy were developing at the time. He was doing it with one camera with a really small team and so devoted to this side of the restaurant world that a lot of people weren't talking about at the time and-
Kerry Diamond:
I forgot about Locol. That was the whole sustainable, incredible fast food program that they were going to do in different cities.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah, yeah. Sustainable, affordable, fast, casual food and-
Kerry Diamond:
Hiring and training locals. Mm-hmm.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah. Exactly. It was just really, really cool to see him do that. When I was living with him very long ago now, I knew that he had this movie at the time. "The Bear" was not a TV show up until, I think, recently, and it was written as a movie at first. So I think it took on more life and more volume as the years went on, but he's been working on it for quite some time. I think he has these little things that have been his little babies that are his beautiful writing. I mean, you look at "The Bear", and there's so much of Chris in there in a lot of ways and his experiences, whether it's through him knowing restaurateurs as we grew up as kids at Mr. Beef in Chicago or all the respect and energy he's put in by just being around chefs, and loving hospitality, and appreciating it because I think him and I really have that in common, just how much food and restaurants have offered us a comfort throughout our lives.
Kerry Diamond:
Last time we spoke, I don't think I realized the extent to which you seem to be the beating heart of the show.
Courtney Storer:
That's so sweet.
Kerry Diamond:
Because you had an interesting and tough journey through food.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah, and honestly, the show is so much about food, but it's so much about heartbreak, and dysfunction, and heartache, and trauma. I think what resonates about the show is, like you say, heartbeat. It's so sweet to say that it's me, but it's so many people. It's so Chris. It's so my younger brother. It's so me. It's so my mom. It's so my dad. Even though it's imperfect, there's a lot of pain that created something really beautiful, and I think, yeah, it's deeper than just Chris and I saying, "Oh, we both love food." I mean, there's a lot of family dynamics in the show. There's friend dynamics. There's leadership dynamics that we both, I think, understand personally very well.
Kerry Diamond:
So take us back to... The show's completed first season, about to be released into the world via a trailer. I remember so distinctly seeing the trailer on Instagram, and just being knocked out and thinking, "If this is half as good as the trailer, it's going to be incredible," but no one seemed to know about "The Bear" until "The Bear" started running on Hulu. What were the expectations? I mean, you obviously all poured your heart and soul into it. It's finished. It's edited. It's scheduled. What were you thinking? Did you know it was going to be a hit?
Courtney Storer:
No, I didn't. So we all went into it with our A game without really understanding where this show would go, but knowing that we were going to put 150% into what it could be, and we're all very passionate about making it good. Everybody collaborated. It wasn't just this incredible cast and these incredible producers, but the crew, and the set decorators, and the props department, and this village that did their research. I mean, so much thought went into every detail. The costume designers, people really looking at the industry at large and being like, "What would this look like in small business? What would their budgets be? Would they be buying what produce in the walk-in?" This thorough kind of work I think propelled us into being like, "Okay. At least we know we gave it our all."
I think what I worried about, especially in this day and age, was just like, "How would people receive a show that had a higher level of anxiety, especially pre and post-pandemic? How would they feel about a show that brings out anxiety and nerves?" I was nervous that chefs would be frustrated or feel like we didn't nail it and didn't go as deep. I mean, how hard is it in a 30-minute episode to really encompass all of the complexities of a restaurant? It's very, very hard, and sometimes what I was worried about is, "Wow, we're showing some of the hardships, but we were hoping to show also the wonderful things about a restaurant that get you coming back the next day." It's not all chaos. There's some wonderful, joyful, loving things in restaurants that happen as well.
Kerry Diamond:
Had you ever worked on a TV show before?
Courtney Storer:
No. I had filmed things here and there, cooking or odds and ends like that, but never in this way before. I was-
Kerry Diamond:
So this whole role of culinary producer is brand new to you?
Courtney Storer:
I mean, I walked on the set, and saw the beef, and literally cried. I was so emotional. It's a carbon copy of the actual one in Chicago. It was overwhelming. I also had this moment of pinching myself because I remember Chris as a kid having this clarity about what he wanted to do with his life from a very, very young age. I remember him watching “Ghostbusters,” and then watching it again, and watching it again, and watching it again. Then, just having this wide knowledge about movies my entire life. I mean, he has constantly educated himself in his profession, which has been a guiding light for me in food. I'm like, "Read as many cookbooks. Meet as many chefs. Build a community as big as you can because that's how you get better and better." I learned that from him when we were kids, and so I felt a lot like... On "The Bear", there were just moments where I would get overwhelmed just watching him direct and being like, "Wow, you're so good at this."
Kerry Diamond:
So the show lands, it's a critical and cultural hit. In terms of impact, it was probably the biggest thing for the world of chefs and restaurants since Anthony Bourdain's “Kitchen Confidential,” and that's a huge thing. Why do you think it moved folks in the industry the way it did?
Courtney Storer:
I think no one had really shown the people and the struggle behind when you walk into a restaurant and have a really good meal or your favorite Italian beef sandwich or fries even.
Kerry Diamond:
There were movies.
Courtney Storer:
There were some. There were some.
Kerry Diamond:
There were movies. There were things out there.
Courtney Storer:
There were things. We had a few, but what "The Bear" I think did differently is simplified it maybe, showed just a little bit more about the working behind the line, whether it's scrubbing the floors at night, running out of things, trying to create a new dish, the struggles of that, the climbing that it takes to work your way up in restaurants, coming into new team dynamics and what that feels like. We wanted to nail that all these different characters are on their own journey, and I think you really see that there's a little bit to relate to in everyone. It's not just Sydney, or Lionel, or Marcus' character, but it's a little bit of like you know a Richie in your life. Most people have a sibling, or a cousin, or someone that they know of in the workplace or something like that. So I think there was just a lot to resonate with within what "The Bear" is. So I feel like that's why people found it interesting.
Kerry Diamond:
Were you prepared for all the conversation about the PTSD that it brought up?
Courtney Storer:
Yeah, because I live in it.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, you have. I mean, again, it goes back to a lot of your experiences.
Courtney Storer:
Yes. My life. Yeah, and so many people, not limited to chefs, but learning about yourself. I can speak to only my experience. I've worked two jobs since I was 15 years old. I have worked very, very hard and supported myself through some really tough times, and that's just not financially, but emotionally a lot of times. What I found in restaurants is it stopped time for me. I would have crazy anxiety, or panic attacks, or heart rate problems, or I'd be too tired to drive home from work after a shift, or I couldn't understand that why in my free time, I was always so exhausted, and I was losing the joy. Going to a movie theater, I would just find it as a place to shut my eyes for two hours, and I was like, "This is not normal, and what's going on with me?" Until I stepped away from working at a certain velocity, I really didn't start to understand why those things were happening.
Kerry Diamond:
Mm-hmm. Oh my God, I'm going to make myself cry. I'm thinking about watching the first season, just watching the first few shows.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Sorry, I’m a crier.
Courtney Storer:
No, it's okay.
Kerry Diamond:
The first few episodes, and then the last. I mean, episode seven, and then the finale.
Courtney Storer:
Yes. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Really just broke my heart, so.
Courtney Storer:
I know. I know.
Kerry Diamond:
In good ways. I mean, I thought it was very cathartic.
Courtney Storer:
It's okay to cry, and guess what? Life is hard, and it's emotional.
Kerry Diamond:
I watched the finale again with my brother who never worked in restaurants. I was sobbing uncontrollably to the point where he was like, "Are you going to be okay? We need to stop watching this." But I had a funny journey through restaurants. I never worked in restaurants until I owned a restaurant, and I just thought it was the hardest thing in the world, but something that gets in your blood and works its way into your heart so deeply in a way that I don't think civilians understand. I'm not in the restaurant industry directly anymore. I mean, I guess I am in a different way, but I cannot walk into a restaurant today without thinking each one is just a small miracle.
Courtney Storer:
Well, hospitality is so beautiful. Taking care of others is so important in this world. It brings a lot of us purpose. I think restaurants are, yes, very difficult margins to be profitable, and to support yourself, and to provide health insurance for your staff and livable wages for everyone, and then make good products, and bring in expensive good products, and sell them for a price that people want to pay. I mean, it's a very complicated thing. I think that last episode, you see in that moment with Carmy and Michael, his brother, sincere joy and love just in that moment in that little kitchen when they're making food together. It's probably the most peaceful either of them have felt in a long time.
I have felt like that in kitchens. I felt like that when I teach a cook how to make chicken Parmesan, and I've also felt like that when someone told me how to make a tortilla the right way or actually take the time to lift me up when I was naive or didn't understand how certain processes worked or needed more explanation on the line on how to cook, how to move my arms. Literally, that kind of connection feels like care and is a tactile skill that you take with you, and something about that is really magnetic, and it sticks to your bones. It sticks with you. So I think that moment was really important in the show because it's a reflection that Carmy still lives in that memory a lot to probably get him through.
Kerry Diamond:
I loved the ending. I know the ending was a little controversial.
Courtney Storer:
Very.
Kerry Diamond:
The tomato sauce cans. That's all I'll say, but I loved it. I loved it.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah. It was incredible. I cried my eyes out, and that scene where you see everybody eating family meal, that was real, the spaghetti that they're eating, and that day, cooking the garlic bread, and making the salad. The stage smelled so good. As soon as they said, "Cut," we were all eating that food together. The cast, the crew, the team was there together.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you film it consecutively? So that was the last scene filmed?
Courtney Storer:
Yes. We had to re-shoot a couple things, but that was the last big scene with everyone that we shot. It was family meal, literally. It's very real.
Kerry Diamond:
So given how affected I was by season one, obviously, I'm almost afraid to ask you, what is coming for season two?
Courtney Storer:
I was scared you're going to ask me that.
Kerry Diamond:
I know you can't. I know you can't. I know you can't tell us anything.
Courtney Storer:
Well, I can't. I can't go too much into it, but I will say that you will see the characters more, and their stories continue on. The beef story continue on in this way that I hope a lot of people will continue to relate to. It's hard without spoiling anything to give much, but-
Kerry Diamond:
Do I need a box of tissues when I watch?
Courtney Storer:
Yeah, I think so. I think you will.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, okay. We'll leave it there because I don't want to get you in trouble with the lovely people responsible for this show. Let's talk about how the restaurant world and the chef world is shifting so much. One of the amazing things about "The Bear" to me was how it captured that in such a visceral way. How are Carmy and the crew preparing for what's happening and where things are headed in the industry?
Courtney Storer:
Honestly, we don't know. Honestly, I don't even know where the industry is heading. It's changing so rapidly. It's changing. Even being on the West Coast, and being up in San Francisco and Silicon Valley, and seeing all the developments in robotics and food, that's really scary for me. I think one thing about "The Bear", when you talk about how is it showing where food is going, I think what it's doing is showing where food is currently. It's hard being a small business owner. It's hard paying your rent when rents are skyrocketing everywhere. I mean, how do you have a small business in a field where you need a big staff and have a high overhead to make money?
It's just really hard. It's difficult to compete against big corporations that are able to have the bandwidth to take on these amazing locations that I would dream of, but it's difficult to pay for them, and it's hard to stay one of the small guys nowadays in the way the world is headed. So I'm sad about that, and I think even with my personal journey as a chef, it's something that I'm being really thoughtful about are my next steps. Where do I want to spend my time?
I've put so many years into restaurants since I was a kid, and I love them. I miss them. I belong in them in so many ways that I'm trying to figure out how can I do it and also take care of myself and deliver on the things that I wanted as an employee when I was coming up. Health insurance. Livable wage. I want to pay my rent. If I need a car payment, I don't want to be stressing and robbing this person to pay this person. It's complicated, and it's tricky. So I think what it's showing is it's hard. Be careful what you wish for a little bit. How do you it in food? Right now, I don't have the answers because I'm trying to figure it out myself.
Kerry Diamond:
We'll be right back with today's guest. Team Cherry Bombe is going back on the road. On Wednesday, June 28th we'll be in Atlanta at Star Provisions for a special event celebrating our other podcast, The Future of Food is You. Are you the future? Then, you should come by. I'll be there as will Future of Food host, Abena Anim-Somuah, and I heard Casey Corn and Jamila Norman from the Magnolia Network will be there, too. You can purchase the ticket at cherrybombe.com.
Obviously, the show has changed your life. How are you doing? How are you feeling?
Courtney Storer:
I mean, it's just incredible. I think it's changed my life in a lot of ways because, number one, I got to work with my brother, which has been an incredible experience for me. I don't know about him. Just kidding, but it's been so nice to work together. I think on a personal level, it's helped me actually come into my own individually where I'm not working for someone else. I mean, essentially, I am being at "The Bear", but for so long, I was a chef, head chef of other restaurants. Now, I finally started my own business. I own the work that I'm putting out. That's been a huge moment for me, just to trust myself. It's helped me trust my instinct a little bit more, listen to it. So I think that's been a really big change.
Kerry Diamond:
When you say you have your own business, tell people what that means.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah. Well, I started a couple years ago private cheffing, and then that branched out into catering, but I'm working on developing a product and hoping to release that ASAP. When it's ready, I'm calling you. You've got to try it.
Kerry Diamond:
We're here for you, Courtney. You know that.
Courtney Storer:
But starting the brand Coco's, which is like Coco's To Gogo, which is something that I'm developing, and in the food space, really being careful about how I go about it. Like you saw with "The Bear", something I've learned from my brother is hold it close and hold it tight. Stay focused until you're ready to really share it with the world because I think sometimes, so often, you're still figuring out that thing, that voice, and you got to just protect it a little bit for a while until you're ready and strong enough to be like, "Here it is."
Kerry Diamond:
I was following you a little bit on Instagram over the past year. You did a lot of guest chefing.
Courtney Storer:
Yes. I love it.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us about some of those experiences.
Courtney Storer:
Well, it's just so fun. So I went to Captain Whidbey's which... If you haven't heard of it, it is a small little cabin hotel that's in the Whidbey Island of Seattle. It's just a beautiful place, and I had loved it for so many years prior to actually doing the little residency that I did. But it was an amazing experience to use local farmers, and the different kinds of seafood that I had access to, and the different butchers, and things like that that were in the area, and just dive in and create the menu around what was accessible. It was just so fun. It was such a great exercise for me to put food out there in the world that I'm making because you can see it now. You'll see it in season two and season one, of course. But developing my voice as a chef is something I'm always trying to develop, and it never stops. You don't just do it just so you know everybody. It's a lifetime process. You're always changing. How you see food changes, and I think embracing that's been really powerful.
Kerry Diamond:
Anything you're doing this summer that we should know about?
Courtney Storer:
Yes. So, this summer... Well, obviously, when "The Bear" comes out, I'll be doing some fun stuff with "The Bear", hopefully, and then honestly, doing some food events for Coco. So that will be available on my Instagram, and stay tuned for all of that information, but I love traveling. I love cooking with other chefs. My most favorite thing to do is cook with other chefs and collaborate. I learn so much. I see a different style. I appreciate different types of kitchen environments because it's always interesting to me, and so I hope to get to do that a little bit more this summer.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, good. Well, keep an eye on Courtney's Instagram, everybody. Let's talk a little bit about your chef journey because I think you will inspire some folks because it was definitely not linear. You talked your way into a kitchen as a teenager, right? Tell us about that.
Courtney Storer:
I think when I look back at those days, I found that when everyone was telling me not to do certain things, I really was trying to listen to myself and my passion at the time. I knew that I felt really good in restaurants because I couldn't wait to go to a restaurant. Any commercial I would see on TV, and they'd be stretching the cheese, I'd be like, "Oh my God, how did they do that? Where did they make that mozzarella stick? How do I get there? Where is it? What is a mozzarella stick?" I had this crazy food curiosity, and so I think about it now, and that was a big sign that I ignored because for so long, I didn't see a lot of women behind the line in kitchens, and so I was intimidated by it. I thought it wasn't for me.
When I would say, "I want to be a chef," sometimes I think people would be like, "Ah, you'd be so good at running the restaurant. You should just run it." I'm like, "Yeah, but I want to cook the food," and like, "How am I ever going to be a good cook if I don't learn?" Coming in at restaurants at 15, they're like, "You're smiley. You're positive. You're cheerful. You're the host." I was like, "Oh, okay." But then, I would gravitate and push them a little bit to let me make the salads or the dessert. We talked about it last episode that I would make the cannolis with Babe in the kitchen, and then I would see that all of the recipes the chefs were using were hers. I was like, "Oh, she's the mastermind."
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us who Babe was again.
Courtney Storer:
So Babe was the owner's mother, and she would just be there every day, come in around 12:00, do her cannolis, make a couple things here and there, finish the salad dressings, give them a different recipe, and then she would leave, and then we'd have a special that night. So it would be like frutto di mare or something, some riff on something that I'd never heard of or seen before. I mean, I grew up in an Italian family, but this was introduction into what calamari looked like raw or what prawns were. There were these little things that I didn't really know, and so I had an insight, and that curiosity just continued to blossom and grow, but I didn't listen to that voice until further on in my life.
So I stayed in restaurants. I served all through college, left college, worked at UPS, had a job at Natalino's, which is the family that opened The Beef or Mr. Beef in Chicago. I just couldn't scratch it. I couldn't get away from the restaurant livelihood, the energy. Maybe "livelihood" is the wrong word, energy, but I was making money as a server. Sometimes when you make money as a server, and you say, "I want to be a cook," they're like, "You're nuts. Get out of here. You're going to make, what? $10 an hour? You're making $200 to $500 a night as a server." I finally, years later, pursued cooking and went to culinary school, and then I never turned back.
Kerry Diamond:
Didn't you work in HR-
Courtney Storer:
UPS.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, at UPS. Why did I think-
Courtney Storer:
And Whole Foods.
Kerry Diamond:
Wasn't it your boss at Whole Foods who told you to go to culinary school?
Courtney Storer:
Yes. Yes. So he busted me because I was always with the chefs and prepared foods, and was like, "Hey, what's up with you? What do you want to do in your life? Because you're very competent at HR, but you're always in the Seafood Department or the Meat Department." I mean, he's like, "You're very thorough, and everyone enjoys talking to you, but I need you in the office. You got to do your office hours," kind of a thing. I was like, "I know, I know. I love this team. They're great." He's like, "But you love food." I'm like, "I do." So he just encouraged me to go check out the culinary school, and as soon as I set foot in a classroom there, I just never turned back, and I stopped listening to everyone telling me not to do it and that it's expensive and not necessary.
A lot of that is true, and if you find the right chef... Yes. Of course, you go into a kitchen, you can learn so much through osmosis and just by being dedicated and passionate. I've had so many cooks that I've worked with and for me that never went to culinary school that taught me so much. But for me, I was very nervous about showing up not knowing what to do. It was a vulnerability that scared me because I was a woman in a male-dominated field, but I didn't really feel like that was unique to kitchens. I've always been in that situation. I think most women feel that way and most people who are non-binary, and feeling like they're entering into a space where they're underestimated.
So I started to just say, "Okay. I'm making this decision to go to culinary school, and after, I'm going to make it worth my while." So I took big risks, and those risks were very scary, and people didn't understand them. I thought I was nuts a lot of the time, especially when I went to France and was terrible. I was a terrible cook in Paris. I love every single cook that I worked with at Verjus. Big shout out to all of you for sticking with me and being patient, but I also earned it there, too. I got to a place where I was good, but for a while, I wasn't.
Kerry Diamond:
I want to just interject for a second. You did not come from money?
Courtney Storer:
No. I mean-
Kerry Diamond:
You hustled to make all this happen?
Courtney Storer:
Well, that's a very complicated thing because my parents went through a really bad divorce when I was a child. My mom and my dad had a very difficult relationship. There was a lot of addiction issues and mental health issues going on. As a child, I grew up really quick to help my mom. That was not easy, and there was difficulties managing money. She was really just trying to do her best, which I understand now, and I think that's a complicated thing, but it took a toll on me and made it difficult. But also, I had to learn really early on that I have to be resourceful and that I have to figure it out, and not having safety net is really difficult.
It's also limiting for so many people that don't have resources, or ability, or mentors to just... It's not about just rising to the occasion. There's a million factors that contribute to whether or not someone is even able to take the risks that I took. So I really understand that, but I knew at the end of the day that being in restaurants, I got paid cash, and that was really important for me. I could save the money and hide it, and that was my money when I needed it, and I started to build a little nest egg for myself. When I went to Paris, I didn't have good credit. It's a very long, complicated story, but it was like, "What are you doing?" Several times, I got there, and I was just like, "God, you really didn't think this through," but-
Kerry Diamond:
Because you got there with no job, right?
Courtney Storer:
No, no. I had a couple contacts that were like, "Try this place." One of the places was closed for summer vacation. The other place, I just sat on the stoop and waited for the chef to come in, but I remember that old-school hustle was because I learned from one of my chefs in culinary school who said, "Show up. Just show up early. Show up until a chef tells you to get out." But I'll tell you something, it's hard work. You can't go in expecting that you're not going to have to put in the hustle. I think that was really hard for me in kitchens, especially in a leadership position, because I would have to say to cooks, "Hey, you get out what you put in, but that means if you come in 10 minutes late, you're going to get a different energy from me than if you came in 15 minutes early, and I'm going to be looking to give you some actual mentoring if you put in the work. But if you don't hustle, I can't teach you that."
You can work the line and do a thing, but when you're there, and you really bring your passion, and you're dedicated, and you show up for it, there's so much to get out of kitchens because chefs will respect you. Front of house will respect you. Restaurants, the team will feel like you're holding your weight, and if you're holding your weight, all of it comes naturally. That's not about restaurants being too hard. It's complicated. Some places are really, really difficult. But for me, my secret to success was that I really took it very seriously.
Kerry Diamond:
Then, you wind up back in the states, and you eventually wind up at Jon and Vinny's.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us what you did there.
Courtney Storer:
When I was back in the States, I was at Animal, and then they were opening Jon and Vinny, and then I came into it green. Not green. I was still green, but I had management experience from all my HR, and UPS, and all that stuff.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, that clipboard.
Courtney Storer:
That clipboard, and I was like, "Okay. I'm really good at logistics. This is an operation that's open 14 hours a day, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It's a lot to bite off and chew, but I can do this." I kept saying, "It's not rocket science, and I can figure this out. I've always loved puzzles." I was like, "This is going to be something that I'm going to be able to figure out, and if I bring a positivity to it and if I can motivate the team, eventually, I will see results. Thank you, UPS." I always talk about UPS, but it's like I did. I was trusted by Jon and Vinny, and that trust propelled me to try my best.
Helen, who has Helen's Wines, I really looked to how she navigated and was able to move in a space, and I just tried my best to be me and also, find a way to engage the team so that when they were at work, they wanted to come to work. I was never the type of chef that could intimidate based on my presence. I'm cheerful, and I'm whimsical in a lot of ways. I didn't want to lose that, but I also had to be assertive, and stern, and get results, and also, let the team know when we had to focus.
I had people that came in and were calling me a B word like the classic move or, "She's too tough. She thinks she's really good." I heard it all, and I was like, "You know what? I'm not perfect. I'm not the best chef in the world. Never said I was, but I'm the chef here." I looked to so many chefs in the community and a lot of women, and had constant conversations. Sara and Sarah who opened Kismet, I was like, "How are you navigating this?" Then, I'd go to my friend, Grace, who's a private chef and also, a very established chef in L.A., and I would be like, "What do you do?" or, "What does this person do?" I looked to examples of people in the food world and tried to adapt my own because sadly, there isn't one perfect approach. Being a chef means you have to be adaptable, and so at Jon and Vinny's, it was constant learning, constant... "Does this method work? No. Try this one."
I really think leadership, it's like I never stop trying to learn about it because it's changing. People are changing, and your mindset has to change, and develop, and evolve. So podcasts for me were really helpful. I would really not know who to talk to. When you're at the top, lonely at the top, so I didn't sometimes feel like it was appropriate for me to say to a sous-chef, "I'm having a tough day. I want to go." I'd have to just be like, "You got to stick it out," and I'd put on Oprah's podcast. Not to be corny, but Super Soul Sunday has got me through a lot of tough days, let me tell you. So I think it was such a long journey of coming into my own. I look back at it, and I'm like, "Wow, that was tough, but also amazing, too."
Kerry Diamond:
Now, your experiences are, in a way, helping all of us.
Courtney Storer:
I hope so. That's the goal.
Kerry Diamond:
It's been channeled into "The Bear."
Courtney Storer:
Hope so.
Kerry Diamond:
I keep thinking of that manager at Whole Foods, and just sometimes, you don't want to butt in to people's lives or say something that maybe you think they need to know that they don't realize, and so shout out to him for caring enough to tell you what he really thought.
Courtney Storer:
I mean, that's why there's such an art to being a mentor, and you never know who you're mentoring and how simple it is to say, "What do you really want to do? What's important to you in a job? What's your one-year goal, five-year goal?" I mean, I know that those things they teach us in school, it's like they are so profound because there's a method behind them. It gets you dreaming, and dreaming is important. Not everybody is given the chance to dream, and so you never know who you might help by just saying, "Hey, what are you trying to do in your life? What interests you? What makes your heartbeat?" For me, it was food, but for other people, it's so many different, colorful, beautiful things.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. For the speed round, what does your tattoo say?
Courtney Storer:
It says, "Pazienza," and it means patience in Italian because this is a little anecdote. When I was little, I remember I learned what pazienza was. My grandma was a cook. She just was a home cook, great cook, but I remember I would try to help her, and I would pull things out of the oven with the oven mitts. I'd be so little, I'd put the oven mitts on both my hands. I'd take them out of the oven and put them on the oven. She'd be like, "Ah, why do you do that? Do you think that you're helping me? What's happening here?" I just wanted to be involved. She'd be like, "Life is like patience, pazienza. You just calm down."
I got this tattoo in Europe when I was working there because I wanted immediate results as a cook. I was like, "I need to make money. I can't live like this. This is so hard. How long is it going to take for me to get good?" One of my friends who's a chef, Jamie Rutherford, she's like, "You just entered in something that takes incredible patience because you cannot walk in and BS your way through. You've got to earn it." Cooking, you just see it. You can't hide it. There's no “Wizard of Oz” behind it. You either got it or you don't, and you make mistakes along the way. I made a lot of them, and I always say like, "Pazienza taught me like you're good, but you're going to be bad for a while, and you got to be okay with that." Who cares if you mess something up? It's not the end of the world. If people give you crap for it, let them give you crap. It says more about them than you, and you just keep going, and you keep trying.
Kerry Diamond:
Pazienza. Okay.
Courtney Storer:
Pazienza.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. Tell me one of your favorite books on food.
Courtney Storer:
Oh, I love Marcella Hazan. I love looking through great Italian cooking, these old cookbooks because they give such good information even based on around ingredients or the logic behind why ingredients are used regionally in this area over others, so I strongly recommend with cooks. There are so many amazing cookbook authors out right now, but if you're looking to start a foundational knowledge, it's really good to start back into some of these old cookbooks that talk more about why ingredients are used, when, how, roasting techniques versus broiling techniques. I love to learn all of that just because it helps me bring that oldness into the newness. When I look at Marcella Hazan and her simple risotto, and peas, and Parmesan, and chicken stock, and I'm like, "Well, there's four things, but how did she make her chicken stock, and why does she have a brown stock versus a white chicken stock? How does she have a beef stock, and then a veal stock, and all the different things that bring out flavors?"
That helps me so much now to keep it simple. I really, really think that if anyone saw my cookbook collection, they'd be surprised because there's so many old cookbooks there. I feel like it's something I'm passionate about is to not leave those behind, and I try to carry them with me and my approach to food when I'm cooking. I just want to be a young nona the rest of my life. I've just found that these women in food back then, they feel like family that I lost. When you come from estrangement in your family or dysfunction, sometimes cookbooks feel like a grandmother figure or an aunt figure, and I really enjoy that.
Kerry Diamond:
Was that Marcella's tomato sauce in the last episode of "The Bear?"
Courtney Storer:
Yeah. Well, yeah. Exactly, and we wanted that in there. Obviously, we make it a little bit of our own. We add basil oil, and chili flake, and certain things, but it starts from her foundation. It's also something that Chris has always loved, that recipe.
Kerry Diamond:
Next year will be a big Marcella year.
Courtney Storer:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
It's her 100th birthday.
Courtney Storer:
Exactly. That's awesome.
Kerry Diamond:
She would've been 100 next year. Mm-hmm.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah, and I think it was courageous. It must have been, back then, difficult for her, and I just think about that.
Kerry Diamond:
Best food movie?
Courtney Storer:
“Mystic Pizza.”
Kerry Diamond:
It's a good one.
Courtney Storer:
I love “Mystic Pizza.” I love the “Big Night.” I also love the scene in “Karate Kid” where he spills the pasta all over himself. I just want you to know that was me in kitchens so many times. So if that's you, you'll be okay. Stick with it. The amount of things I've dropped and made a mess of, I did that with the whole tray of wine once like-
Kerry Diamond:
Ooh. Favorite kitchen tool?
Courtney Storer:
Ooh. I would say the best kitchen tool you can have is your hands, but I also love a Robot Coupe.
Kerry Diamond:
One thing that's always in your fridge?
Courtney Storer:
I love sheep's milk cheeses. I love them in salads. I love to use them in pasta. I love them as a snack.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite childhood food?
Courtney Storer:
Ribs. I grew up going to this place called Perry's in Park Ridge, Illinois. I don't know if it's open anymore, but I love their ribs and fries.
Kerry Diamond:
Snack food of choice?
Courtney Storer:
I would say I love ice cream of all different kinds. This is the Chicago-California controversy about me. I love pizza, and then I love a farmer's market apple or a pair of peach. I didn't have that. Being in Los Angeles, you have the most amazing produce right at your fingertips, so I love that as a snack, too.
Kerry Diamond:
Footwear of choice in the kitchen?
Courtney Storer:
I would say it's tied between Birkenstocks and Nikes, but Nikes, I have had a habit of ruining over and over, but I need the support sometimes. I like to be versatile and agile, but some kitchens, they don't let you wear them, so you got to-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I didn't know that.
Courtney Storer:
Well, it's slip and fall rules.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, okay.
Courtney Storer:
Some shoes are slippery than others. What are those boots? The Blundstones are great.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, the Blundstone. Folks love those.
Courtney Storer:
We like to look a little stylish in a kitchen. I almost broke my neck wearing dance clothes one time. That can't go back, you know?
Kerry Diamond:
Any motto or mantra? But I think you might have answered that already.
Courtney Storer:
What? Which one?
Kerry Diamond:
Your tattoo story.
Courtney Storer:
Yes, and I always say this. I love this quote, and I used to give it to my cooks, but, "Hard work exceeds over talent when talent fails to work hard." It's a Kevin Durant quote, but I like it. It's a basketball quote, and I always feel like cooking has a lot of basketball/sport references. It feels like a team. You're just trying to win the game. You got the bench players. You got the starters. It's a whole thing. It helped me a lot often to just be like, "Do the hard work. It's not about just having the accolades. It's just stay steady, keep working hard, reach out for community, and anything can happen."
Kerry Diamond:
What are you streaming these days since you are of the streaming world now?
Courtney Storer:
Oh, on TV?
Kerry Diamond:
Mm-hmm.
Courtney Storer:
“Yellowjackets” got me. It got me.
Kerry Diamond:
Did it?
Courtney Storer:
It got me.
Kerry Diamond:
Is it cannibals?
Courtney Storer:
I blame my love for soccer playing. I grew up playing soccer, and I was like, "This show is so sick." But then, it's like this whole cannibalism thing, so that's weird. Obviously, “Succession” is just the best, but I also am always watching “The Barefoot Contessa,” and then I've gotten really into it. On a flight, if it's on, locked and loaded. That's my girl. I love “Pasta Grannies.” I can just put that on and just feel good. I've been getting movie lists from a lot of the cast of "The Bear," so that's been fun. I feel like that should be a thing.
Kerry Diamond:
I know. You need to share that somewhere.
Courtney Storer:
There's so many niche movies I never even heard of.
Kerry Diamond:
I can imagine.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. Last question. If you had to be stuck on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be, and why?
Courtney Storer:
Okay. It's got to be a tie. I would say Alton Brown or Ina Garten because Alton, he's got those like... He's like, "Look, chemistry, science, we've got this." Then, Ina would just be like, "Okay. Let's light a fire. Let me tell you about my life. One time, this person came to dinner," and I would just be like, "Yeah. Just tell me all the stories."
Kerry Diamond:
I feel like that could be its own TV show.
Courtney Storer:
Please. Let's make it happen someone.
Kerry Diamond:
The three of you on a desert island.
Courtney Storer:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my gosh. I love it. Well, Courtney, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Courtney Storer:
Yes. I love you.
Kerry Diamond:
Again, thanks to your brother for what you two have given us.
Courtney Storer:
Of course.
Kerry Diamond:
It is such a gift.
Courtney Storer:
Well, thank you to Cherry Bombe, and I think it's really interesting to... I always visualize Cherry Bombe as something that I saw, and it's incredible to be able to sit here with you today because there's been so many years along the way that I used it. I remember seeing Kristen Kish on the cover and being like, "Wow, she's incredible and what's she doing in food. How does she get to where she's at?" It just always gave me motivation to keep going, and so thank you for that.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that means a lot.
Courtney Storer:
Of course.
Kerry Diamond:
Thank you so much.
Courtney Storer:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe on your fave podcast platform, and sign up for our newsletter. Do all the things, and I will be forever grateful. If you're a big fan of "The Bear," make sure to check out my interview with Courtney from last year to learn more about her early chef days. If you watched "The Bear," DM me. If this season is anything like last season, we're going to need some virtual hugs. Special thanks to OpenTable for sponsoring this episode of Radio Cherry Bombe and partnering with us on our four-city dinner series, Sit With Us. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazan is the studio engineer for Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center. Our producer is Catherine Baker, and our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu. Thanks to you for listening. You're the Bombe.