Dorie Greenspan Transcript
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi, peeps. You're listening to She's My Cherry Pie, the baking podcast from The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Jessie Sheehan. I'm a baker, recipe developer, and author of four baking books, including “Salty, Cheesy, Herby, Crispy Snackable Bakes.” On each episode, I hang out with the sweetest bakers around and take a deep dive into their signature bakes.
My guest today is Dorie Greenspan. Dorie is a beloved baker, bestselling cookbook author, and someone I am so blessed to call a friend. Dorie's been on the show before to talk about choux pastry and her famous World Peace Cookies, and I'm thrilled to welcome her back to talk about her brand new book, “Dorie's Anytime Cakes,” her 15th cookbook. Can you believe it? The book is filled with more than 100 recipes for what Dorie affectionately calls ‘counter cakes,’ those irresistible cakes that sit on your countertop and keep calling you back for just one more slice. What makes this book truly special is its design. Instead of the usual food photography, the book features beautiful illustrations that bring each recipe to life in such a fresh and unique way. Dorie shares why she chose this direction and takes us behind the scenes of her creative process and how profoundly different it was to write a cookbook filled with illustrations versus one with photographs. Many of the recipes in “Anytime Cakes” were inspired by what Dorie ate growing up. So, we talked about Dorie's grandmother and the sagging brown paper bag full of goodies that she'd bring to Dorie's family every week, and the dessert she loved from a sidewalk snack stand near her childhood home in Brooklyn. We also discussed the recipe she developed for The New York Times a few years back that she describes as the godparents of the recipes in the new book. She also walks me through the Devil's Chocolate Cake recipe from the new book. I loved learning about where you might use a hairdryer in the preparation of this cake, yup, a hairdryer, and how Dorie preps a bundt pan. Dorie is literally an absolute delight to talk to, and I know you're going to love our conversation as much as I did. So, stay tuned. You can find today's recipe at cherrybombe.substack.com.
We're having a short snack break with California Prunes, who helped make this episode possible. I always have a stash of prunes in my pantry because there's so much they can do. I love that prunes can satisfy your sweet tooth while being good for your gut, your heart, and even your bones. They contain dietary fiber and other nutrients to support good gut health and vitamin K, copper, and antioxidants to support healthy bones. Wellness trends may come and go, but prunes aren't going anywhere. So, why not chop up some prunes this weekend to fold into your favorite oatmeal cookie recipe? In mine, I combine them with M&Ms and potato chips for a cookie that has everything you'd ever want. It's chewy, crunchy, salty, sweet. Just talking about them makes me realize I need a cookie right now. Prunes are also a great natural sweetener in baking recipes. If you need any tips on sweetening with prunes, check out all the different ideas and recipes at the California Prunes website at californiaprunes.org. I've got the inside scoop on a sweet contest our friends at California Prunes are hosting. Share your favorite recipe using California Prunes, whether it's an elaborate bake or a simple snack, for the chance to score hundreds of dollars in gift cards, kitchen gear, and swag. Just post your creation on Instagram or TikTok and tag @caprunes and @nocrumbsleft to enter. The contest runs from October 27th through November 17th. So, get baking, get snacking, and good luck.
Peeps, did you hear the news? Jubilee New York 2026 is happening on Saturday, April 25th, at The Glasshouse in Manhattan. Early bird tickets are on sale now. Jubilee is Cherry Bombe's annual conference celebrating women and creatives in the world of food and drink. It'll be a beautiful day of connection and community, plus delicious bites and sips. You'll meet other thoughtful food folks and be inspired by the featured speakers, panelists, and more. I had such a great time at this past year's event, and I know next year's will somehow be bigger and better. Early bird tickets are on sale now through December 31st. If you're an official bomb squad member or a paid Substack subscriber, be sure to use your discount code at checkout. You can find it in your inbox or on our Substack website. Head to cherrybombe.com for all the details. I hope to see you there.
Let's chat with today's guest. Dorie!
Dorie Greenspan:
Jessie!
Jessie Sheehan:
So excited to have you on She's My Cherry Pie for a third time-
Dorie Greenspan:
Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Jessie Sheehan:
... and to talk the Devil's Chocolate Cake with you and so much more.
Dorie Greenspan:
Thank you.
Jessie Sheehan:
All right. So, I know from our prior chat that there were always store-bought baked goods in your childhood home, because although she didn't bake or cook, your mom had a sweet tooth. But what I didn't know until I read “Anytime Cakes” cover to cover, as one does, I didn't know about the role your grandmother played in stocking your house with treats. Can you tell us about your grandmother's weekly visits with her sagging brown paper bag-
Dorie Greenspan:
That bag.
Jessie Sheehan:
... full of an assortment of delicacies, both sweet and savory?
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah. So, I think about, "Where did she get those bags every week?" She made an apple cake. I always think of that cake as the one that got away. It came in a shoebox. Now, I never saw my grandmother wear anything but those old lace-up... Did she get new shoes every week? I don't think so. It's a mystery that will never be solved. But so my grandmother, did she worry that my mother wasn't feeding us? I don't know. She would come every week. She would bring chicken soup. She would bring chicken. She would bring an apple cake.
She would bring cookies, so butter cookies. My mother said, "How did my mother know given that she was never in the kitchen?" But she said that my grandmother made the cookies out of leftover dough, but I always thought of them as butter cookies. I adored my grandmother, but she got one thing really wrong. She thought I liked the cookies with the poppy seeds on top.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, no.
Dorie Greenspan:
And she gave my brother the ones with the cinnamon sugar. I wanted those. It was the sugar that I wanted.
Jessie Sheehan:
Of course, of course.
Dorie Greenspan:
She brought a honey cake. That cake, it was so good. It was wrapped... What did she wrap it in? I guess in those days, we used wax paper.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's what I was going to say, yeah.
Dorie Greenspan:
Right? I mean, she would drain things if she was frying something or she would wrap things in brown paper that I think came from that stock of shopping bags, but the honey cake would come. The sides would be wrapped in wax paper. No, it was so good. It had almonds across the top, whole almonds as I remember.
Jessie Sheehan:
Skins or no? Should I picture a white almond?
Dorie Greenspan:
No, white is what I'm remembering. This is a lot of years ago, Jessie.
Jessie Sheehan:
I know.
Dorie Greenspan:
You know those flavors that they just bring everything back?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Dorie Greenspan:
Honey cake. So, I'm remembering the almonds, but we never got to see them for very long because my mother would take them all off.
Jessie Sheehan:
And she didn't like the cake, right?
Dorie Greenspan:
She didn't like the cake at all. She only wanted the almonds. So, the cake would come. We would see it. It would have almonds and then it would have little holes, a whole perfect one-
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that.
Dorie Greenspan:
... across the cake.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay. Back to this apple cake that got away, it comes in a shoebox. Is it like a loaf cake?
Dorie Greenspan:
No. So, I think had I ever seen it whole? I think she made it in... I'm making the sign of a tray, like a sheath pan thing or it was a dough of some kind, but it was soft. It had apples and then it had dough on top. But the dough was more cakey than dough, dough if we think of pie dough. I had a cake that I called, my grandmother came from Russia, Russian grandmother's apple cake in “Baking: From My Home to Yours,” which is a lot of years ago. It wasn't my grandmother's cake, but it came close. In this book, Darra Goldstein gave me an apple cake recipe that is nothing at all, nothing like my grandmother's, Sasha's apple cake, but it brought back those memories. Sometimes the memory is really-
Jessie Sheehan:
What you want, what you're after.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah. In this book, I had no idea this was going to happen, but this was really like a stroll down memory lane. So many of the recipes brought back memories.
Jessie Sheehan:
Well, it's so interesting and we're going to talk about like the origin story of the book with the New York Times and everything. What I really took away is that you didn't start out to write a book about cakes that you remembered from childhood.
Dorie Greenspan:
Not at all. Not at all.
Jessie Sheehan:
Particularly because they were all, well, not your grandmother's, but a lot of them were store-bought. But then it happened.
Dorie Greenspan:
It evolved that way. It was such a surprise for me. Nice also.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love. All right. So, I wanted to parse out a few other moments in the book when you mentioned cakes that you ate as a little girl. There's a headnote, I think, for the cheesecake recipe where you talk about remembering being a little girl, pulling up a chair and eating it maybe off the counter off the table. Can you unpack that memory?
Dorie Greenspan:
It's a Brooklyn cheesecake. I mean, I know we see New York cheesecake now, but for me, it'll always be a Brooklyn cheesecake, Junior’s and there was Lindy's. These cakes were so big. They were huge. They were not only big around, but they were so tall. I do have a memory of standing on a chair so that I could eat a slice of cake from the top down.
Jessie Sheehan:
I want you to tell us a little bit about the Charlotte Russe, because what I love about it, you have a recipe in the book and there's a memory of it. I also love that Michael remembers it too because I forgot that you and Michael both grew up like in blocks-
Dorie Greenspan:
Blocks away from one another. Yeah, just a couple of blocks away from one another.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, my gosh.
Dorie Greenspan:
I didn't make this cake to be a Charlotte Russe. Then as I made it, Michael and I were tasting it and there it was, the charlotte russe from Brooklyn. Along the avenue, on the avenue shops, but if you turned right, there was... What was it? It was like a food truck but tucked into a building. You couldn't sit in it. You bought everything from the counter. I don't know what else they sold, but they sold Charlotte Russe, which was like shortcake cake and whipped cream and it was in the most adorable white cardboard container that was like a push-up, like those, right?
Jessie Sheehan:
Like an ice cream from the ice cream truck that you push up from the bottom.
Dorie Greenspan:
Exactly. Exactly. I somehow remember that the top of it had little like jester points like it was a little clown hat and you pushed it up so that you ate it, little bit of time-
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, my gosh.
Dorie Greenspan:
... little bit of time. Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
That sounds so delicious. I also think you write in the book that they sold hot dogs and hamburgers. I can taste them in my mouth. I know they would be delicious.
Dorie Greenspan:
I mean, I think it was just like a fast food before we knew the word fast food place. There were hot dogs. Well, yes, of course, there were. I'm sorry. I'm back in Brooklyn. I'm on Avenue J.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh no, I can like literally taste maybe a buttery bundt. I'm getting very excited.
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Cake lovers, you are going to love the next issue of Cherry Bombe magazine. I'm so excited to announce that the upcoming holiday issue of Cherry Bombe is all about cake. It's going to be packed with sweet stories, beautiful recipes, and heartfelt essays dedicated to our favorite dessert. Stay tuned for the cover reveal. I know it's going to be extra delicious. The issue will be out in early December. So, head to cherrybombe.com to subscribe now and ensure it lands in your mailbox just in time for the holidays.
Now, back to our guest. Before we jump into the fabulous new book, which we're already playing with a little or I'm teasing, I just wanted to chat briefly about your love for “Maida Heatter's Book of Great Desserts.” It came out in 1974. You called it your baking Bible, and I just feel like, listeners, we all need to be buying Dorie Greenspan's baking Bible. If that's the book you loved, you have to tell us about it.
Dorie Greenspan:
I feel like I learned to bake from two books, from Gaston Lenôtre's book, maybe it was called “Lenôtre’s Desserts,” and from Maida Heatter's book. Lenôtre's books were all French. That book taught me the architecture of baking. So, there were basic recipes, genoise, buttercream, brioche, and then he would say, "Okay, with the genoise, you do this, this, this, and you make this cake." So I could see the progression of how pastry is built on building blocks. Maida Heatter just had such personality and her recipes were easy to follow. They were long.
They were long and detailed. You knew when you started it was going to work and that she was going to be there with you. Her recipes were American, they were French, they were German. They were the things that she made. The book felt very personal. It was. My copy of the book has little notes in it, delicious, make again. Bill like this one. Michael thought this needed more nuts. It's just covered with stuff like that. She was my guiding light. When I started writing recipes, it was Maida Heatter who was in my head. So, she was the one who would say, "The batter will look like this. Don't worry." I thought that was so helpful. That's what I want to tell readers.
Jessie Sheehan:
Now, without further ado, “Dorie's Anytime Cakes,” your 15th book.
Dorie Greenspan:
Bum, bum, bum.
Jessie Sheehan:
As we have established, simple cakes were very much a part of your childhood. Although you've made a wedding cake before, you've made a Darth Vader cake, as one does, your heart doesn't totally belong to such projects. So, will you tell us the book's origin story about The New York Times, approaching you about making some cakes, and what happened next?
Dorie Greenspan:
I got a call. I love The New York Times food section, and I love that they called to ask me if I wanted to make some holiday cakes for their Christmas, Hanukkah, New Year's whole section. I said, "I think of holidays. I think what you're looking for is something frosted, something tall, something showstopper, something centerpiece." No, not me. I mean, obviously, I wasn't thinking about this because the call just came, but I said, "Wouldn't you like plain cakes, kitchen cakes, the kinds of cakes that sit on the kitchen counter? So that while you're working on the showstopper, you can just slice a little piece, or when family's staying over for the weekend, there would always be a cake on the counter." I was shocked, they said yes.
So, I did three recipes for them, and I guess I hadn't really been doing a whole lot of recipe creation development then. I worked on the three recipes and thought, "Oh, I remember how much I like this. Oh, I love these kinds of cakes." You know how it must be the same for you when you're working. You're making something and you think, "What if?" or "Oh, I've made this cake with cranberries, but I could make it." So I was really deep into what if. I thought, "This is what I love. I love creating recipes and I love these simple cakes." I hadn't planned on writing this book. It just came like that and it was a pleasure from start to finish.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that you called the three recipes for the Times the book's godparents.
Dorie Greenspan:
Well, but they are. Actually, the cover recipe is-
Jessie Sheehan:
The cranberry spice. In the Times, it was the cranberry spice bundt, I think.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah. Here it's the holidays. Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. Then also the skillet gingerbread cake makes a real-
Dorie Greenspan:
I made that last week. It's so good.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, good.
Dorie Greenspan:
It's so good.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, good. Then the ham and cheese quick bread, which I feel like, Dorie, you've introduced so many of us to the concept of savory baking because of France-
Dorie Greenspan:
Because of France.
Jessie Sheehan:
... that a loaf cake can be savory and people expect that.
Dorie Greenspan:
It was a revelation to me when I first tasted that kind of cake.
Jessie Sheehan:
What's so interesting about this book is how the writing process and testing process with Mary Dodd differed from the other 14 in light of Nancy Pappas. Hi, Nancy.
Dorie Greenspan:
Hello, Nancy.
Jessie Sheehan:
Her illustrations, or are they illus? I think you mentioned that that's like the industry term.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
I learned a new word, illus. But because of the illustrations, you guys had to work a teeny bit differently. Can you-
Dorie Greenspan:
Very differently.
Jessie Sheehan:
... tell us?
Dorie Greenspan:
So, I've been so lucky in publishing and I've worked with fabulous photographers. So, that process was I stayed home, I wrote, I baked, I wrote, I baked, Mary tested, and then the manuscript was finished. I had a chance to reread. Oh, maybe that needs a vanilla frosting. And then the photographs were done. But for this book, I had met Nancy at Cherry Bombe-
Jessie Sheehan:
At Jubilee.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah, at Jubilee. I mean, I loved her work, but I never had a project. When I started working on cakes, I had the idea. I thought this is a perfect project for an illustration, for something bold and graphic. Unadorned is a funny word, but without props, just the cake. I was so excited when everybody was on board and never thought about what the process would be. So, I made the cakes. I wrote the recipe. I wrote the head just as I always did. I sent them off to Mary to be tested just as I always did, but then we had to give Nancy a photograph to draw from. So, it meant that that recipe was done. I couldn't ask Nancy to make the-
Jessie Sheehan:
Change it to chocolate.
Dorie Greenspan:
Right. That was done. Yeah. It also meant that I was on a schedule. I mean, I always get the work done, but not in an organized way. And this time, of course, we had to be feeding Nancy recipes because there was no way that she could just take a month and do this. So, I became a project manager in a way that I never had and it's not my strong suit, it turns out, and Mary became a food stylist. Because she would be taking pictures of what she tested. I took pictures, but we needed, "Oh, we just had a whole bundt. Maybe we need to slice this."
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, I didn't even think about it.
Dorie Greenspan:
Of course, we didn't think of it either until-
Jessie Sheehan:
You guys had to come up with the... Because I think about that a lot when I'm developing recipes. Oh, this cookie is going to look so much like that cookie.
Dorie Greenspan:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
I'm just already thinking what the food stylist is going to tell me on set. You think ahead.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
But you guys had to do that job.
Dorie Greenspan:
I've always had respect for photographers, food stylists, and props, but boy, oh, boy.
Jessie Sheehan:
Wow, Dorie.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah. So, we had to say, "We have a sliced cake, we need a hole. How is somebody going to be able to see the inside?" Because every photograph illustration in a cookbook is there for beauty, but it's there for information. People look at the photographs to see, "Oh, is the cake tall? What does the crumb look like? What does the crust look like? So we had all of these new skills at my age. I learned new skills.
Jessie Sheehan:
Honey, I'm so proud of you.
Dorie Greenspan:
Most of the illustrations could be mistaken for photographs. She's so talented.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Okay. So, we have discussed how your mom always had simple cakes on the counter, but she occasionally might have something layered and special like da, da, da, da, the famous Ebinger's layered blackout cake with layers of chocolate pudding. Quick pudding aside, I loved learning that Michael loves chocolate pudding and that you love chocolate pudding because chocolate pudding is literally one of my favorite things.
Dorie Greenspan:
A major food group.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, 100%. So, you acknowledge that the devil's food cake in “Anytime Cakes,” I love the way you write, but has flavor whispers of the Ebinger's Blackout Cake. We've discussed Ebinger's before on the first time you were on the podcast and that there's a cake of yours that's based on it in “Baking: From My Home to Yours,” but please tell us the story of how the Ebinger's cake-ish got into “Baking: From My Home to Yours” and how the devil's food cake we're going to discuss today is based on that.
Dorie Greenspan:
So it's really funny, the Ebinger's-ish, the Ebinger's whisperer cake is on the cover of “Baking: From My Home to Yours,” and it's called the white out.
Jessie Sheehan:
The black and white?
Dorie Greenspan:
No, there's whiteout because it has white marshmallow frosting instead of being all chocolate. The manuscript was done for “Baking: From My Home to Yours” and a friend sent me a recipe and she said... It's so long ago, but I think it was a friend who sent a recipe who said, "This is like the Ebinger's cake." I made it and I loved it and I tucked it into the book at the very last minute and it ended up being on the cover. Well, fast forward how many years, 20 some odd years and I'm working on “Anytime Cakes,” which was called a million things before “Anytime Cakes.” So, I have to get used to this. I was finished. I mean, I was close to finish. This is the whole story all over again.
I thought about the whiteout cake and thought, "What would that cake be like if it were a bundt? What if it weren't a layer cake? What if it were a bundt cake with sugar on top of it or a glaze?" It was last minute. It's just funny that it happened like this. Then when Mary and I were talking about the recipe and I had sent it to her, I said, "Let's put chocolate glaze on it." So Mary put chocolate glaze on it as I did and we both took pictures of it and then she put some puffs of... I don't even know how this happened.
Did she do it? It doesn't make any difference. Puffs of whipped cream and then a cherry on top. We looked at this cake and giggled and said, "Wouldn't it be funny if it made the cover?" So this is not really Ebinger's cake. It is the whiteout cake. But everything changes when you change the form and the size.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, I'm sure the texture must be completely different, et cetera. Okay. So, to make the cake, we're going to make sure the rack is in the center of the oven, we're going to heat it to 350 degrees, we're going to coat the inside of a 10-cup bundt pan. Is there a brand of bundt pan that you like?
Dorie Greenspan:
So I have a huge collection. I meant to before I left home, I wanted to take a picture of all my bundts, but I'll do it one day. It's Nordic Ware.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we're going to coat the inside of a 10 cup Nordic Ware bundt pan with baker's spray or we're going to butter the pan, dust with flour, tap out excess. Yes.
Dorie Greenspan:
Did we ever talk about this that I came late to baker's spray? I was always a butter and flour girl, but I use Baker's spray on bundts, use a pastry brush to brush the spray to make sure it's even-
Jessie Sheehan:
It doesn't pull in the bottom.
Dorie Greenspan:
No, I'm like a belt and suspenders person-
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay. Okay, good.
Dorie Greenspan:
... when it comes to this, right? So I spray it. I use a pastry brush to make sure that it's evenly coated and I do this when I know that like I'm getting ready to bake with a bundt and then I turn it over so that it doesn't pull.
Jessie Sheehan:
Pull, like on a paper towel or something.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. So, spray baker's spray, which just for people who maybe don't know, that's-
Dorie Greenspan:
Oil and flour.
Jessie Sheehan:
... an oil and flower situation, brush it, flip. Will you do that? Sometimes I've read that when you're working with a bundt pan, you should wait until right before you're about to pour in the batter or you make it when you're preheating or you do that when you're preheating.
Dorie Greenspan:
So I've read that too, but I think that's so that it doesn't pull, that everything goes in. As I said, belt and suspenders. I like to know it's done and it's done nicely. I think brushing it is an extra step and you've got to wash the brush, but I think it really helps.
Jessie Sheehan:
I couldn't agree with you more.
Dorie Greenspan:
Especially since all those little crannies.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. Well, I'm a spray person. So, I will spray a bundt anyway, not even a Baker's Joy situation necessarily. It always pulls. So, you have to flip.
Dorie Greenspan:
Brush and flip, brush and flip.
Jessie Sheehan:
Brush and flip, brush and flip. You learn something new every day. Okay. So, prepped our pan, preheated our oven. Now we're going to whisk together all-purpose flour. A brand that you love?
Dorie Greenspan:
I use King Arthur.
Jessie Sheehan:
We're going to whisk together some King Arthur flour. We're going to whisk together some cocoa. In the recipe, you write cocoa, but in the front matter, you do tell us that in general, you're using like a Valrhona Dutch process.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yes, but it's Dutch, it's Dutch.
Jessie Sheehan:
But that if people want to use natural, it's okay. The Valrhona is so gorgeous.
Dorie Greenspan:
I think we should just like have bags of it near us so that when we just need to feel-
Jessie Sheehan:
We just open and look at it.
Dorie Greenspan:
... and little smell.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, and it's so fun. I just love everything about it, but anyway, some Valrhona Dutch-processed cocoa powder, baking soda, baking powder, and some fine sea salt, we're going to whisk that together. Now, we're going to put some room temperature, unsalted butter in the bowl of our stand mixer fitted with a paddle or a large bowl if we're using a hand mixer. We're going to add both granulated and brown sugar.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Two questions: why do you like both? Light or brown, what's your preference?
Dorie Greenspan:
Right. So, I like both for the different kinds of sweetness that you get and also the texture of brown sugar. Like most bakers, I have light and dark. I have more light brown sugar and it's what I use more often, but you could use them interchangeably. That's why I stopped saying light.
Jessie Sheehan:
I was so interested in that choice. Yeah, you stopped.
Dorie Greenspan:
I hope it doesn't confuse people.
Jessie Sheehan:
I don't think it does.
Dorie Greenspan:
It's meant to just give people a choice.
Jessie Sheehan:
Well, it's nice because I always write light and people always say, "Can I use dark?" So I'm tempted by at least in front matter in-
Dorie Greenspan:
I hope people read front matter.
Jessie Sheehan:
I know. There really is so much good information.
Dorie Greenspan:
Maybe we need a sticker on the cover of our books to say, "Please read the front matter."
Jessie Sheehan:
Or every single recipe. Don't forget to look at the front matter. So, we're going to put room temp, unsalted butter in a bowl with our paddle, granulated light or dark sugar, brown sugar. We're going to beat on medium speed until soft and creamy about four minutes and we'll stop and scrape. When you're scraping, are you using like a flexible spatula?
Dorie Greenspan:
I'm using a flexible spatula. I have Tovolo.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah.
Dorie Greenspan:
I love their spatulas and they make a long, slender rather elegantly shaped spatula. It's a little spoonula-ish.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Is it one piece or is there a head?
Dorie Greenspan:
It's one piece.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love a one piece.
Dorie Greenspan:
And it's a really good scraper. Do you use the beater that has a little-
Jessie Sheehan:
One, I have two stand mixers. One of them has the scraping rubber piece.
Dorie Greenspan:
I bought one for mine because it didn't come with one. I love that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. I love this verb, but one by one, we're going to drop our eggs. I love when recipe writers come up with interesting verbs to describe an action, because I'm always saying, "Add two eggs." But I love the idea of dropping them.
Dorie Greenspan:
I think I just started dropping.
Jessie Sheehan:
It's so good, Dorie.
Dorie Greenspan:
Thank you.
Jessie Sheehan:
It's so good. So, we are going to drop our eggs into the batter, beat for one minute after each is dropped until incorporated. Then we're going to beat in some vanilla. Do you have a brand? Do you make it from scratch?
Dorie Greenspan:
Haven't I made from scratch that I've never used? Thanks, Jessie. I use Sonoma Syrup. I use their crushed, which is three different kinds of... It's so good. It's crazy expensive. Vanilla now is-
Jessie Sheehan:
It's a fortune.
Dorie Greenspan:
Right. It has little specks of vanilla bean in it.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we're going to add our vanilla. We're going to scrape and here's a nice story just to make us feel good and not worry, a little Maida inspired, scrape and don't be upset if your batter looks curdled because it may not be pretty now, but it will be beautiful soon, which I love. We're going to turn the mixer to low, blend in some melted but cooled semi or bittersweet chocolate brand.
Dorie Greenspan:
Also Valrhona.
Jessie Sheehan:
Valrhona. Beat in our flour-cocoa mixture in three editions with some room temp milk. Quick aside, how do you decide what your liquid will be? It could be buttermilk. We have soda.
Dorie Greenspan:
The original recipe was milk or buttermilk. I don't remember. This could obviously, as I'm looking and thinking about it, could be buttermilk.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we're going to add some room temp whole milk in two installments.
Dorie Greenspan:
Can we go back just for a second?
Jessie Sheehan:
Of course.
Dorie Greenspan:
About the melted chocolate. It's really important, the chocolate be cool but not firm. You come to feel this. You come to know when it's good, but you want it to pour. You want it to look like beautiful, flowy.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. I have a little trick for that and melted butter. If it needs to be melted and cooled, which is to stop melting the chocolate when there are a few soft chunks-
Dorie Greenspan:
And stir.
Jessie Sheehan:
... and then stir those in. If it's okay, sometimes you don't want to stir, but if you can stir-
Dorie Greenspan:
Most often, you can stir it. That's really good.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then you could cool it a teeny bit.
Dorie Greenspan:
That's great.
Jessie Sheehan:
But thank you for telling people that.
Dorie Greenspan:
No, thank you.
Jessie Sheehan:
Because that's good. Beginning and ending with our dry ingredients and we're going to scrape off it. So, when everything's incorporated and with the mixer still on a low speed, we're going to slowly pour in either boiling coffee or water. Which do you like?
Dorie Greenspan:
Coffee.
Jessie Sheehan:
Coffee. Another great Dorie tip. The neatest way to do this is to pour it down the side of the bowl so the liquid doesn't splash everywhere. I love this also. The liquid will thin the batter dramatically, which is so true. I made the cake and you get scared. You're like, "What happened?"
Dorie Greenspan:
What happened to my batter?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. So, now we're going to switch to a flexible spatula and we'll stir in some finely chopped semi or bittersweet chocolate or mini chocolate chips. Why finally? Is this a melting situation or is it little pockets?
Dorie Greenspan:
I like to be surprised. I like to be surprised, but certainly in baking. I think when you chop the chocolate finally, some of it melts and some of it stays a little firm, so that you come upon it as a surprise. And it's the reason that I don't love chips because I mean, I'm never without chips in the house. But for this, I like to have it almost melted.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yup. Hence the minis. We're going to pour the batter into the pan, and again, I love this. It's so thin that it will level itself out, you tell us, which is your way of saying, "Don't worry, there's no smoothing of the top here."
Dorie Greenspan:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
It's a liquid. This is a query from a melted butter obsessive, that would be me. Since this batter is so thin, could we substitute melted butter for the softened butter that we creamed or is there still... This is a science question, I guess. Is that air?
Dorie Greenspan:
And you know me in science, I know nothing, but it's air. It's air.
Jessie Sheehan:
You want that air from the creaming. Okay, good to know.
Dorie Greenspan:
I love you, I love your recipes. Of course, you would think, "Okay, can I do this faster?"
Jessie Sheehan:
Exactly. You know me well. Your mother and I would have gotten all that store-bought cake. I need to do it quickly. So, then we're going to bake for 33 to 38 minutes or until-
Dorie Greenspan:
Which is a surprisingly short time for a bundt.
Jessie Sheehan:
I didn't even ask you about that. Yes.
Dorie Greenspan:
I know. I know because I checked this over and over when I was making.
Jessie Sheehan:
I just loved it.
Dorie Greenspan:
Could this bundt really be done in that time? The answer is yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
It must be the thin batter. Do you think?
Dorie Greenspan:
I don't have an answer, but it did surprise me. So, I made it a couple of times, and Mary made it. It's really like 35, 36.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, no, I love the five-minute. It's important to give ranges. Everybody's oven is different. Everything will change.
Dorie Greenspan:
Somebody just told me that they were baking in their oven. They set it for 350. They said, "Why did it take so long? Why did it take so long?" And I said, "Do you have a thermometer?" She said, "Yeah, but I never looked at it. It was at 320. No, but this happens so often with ovens.
Jessie Sheehan:
All the time. You really need to check. I could not agree more.
Dorie Greenspan:
So that's why there's always a range.
Jessie Sheehan:
Love, love. So, we'll bake for 33 to 38 or until the cake is risen. It will rise in the center, around the pan's hole. A tester inserted into the center comes out clean.
Dorie Greenspan:
Deep, deep into the center because it's a tall cake, right?
Jessie Sheehan:
And then I love this again. We're going to gently tug. If you gently tug at the cake, it will pull away a little from the sides of the pan. I love all of these indicators. We have like three different indicators, which I adore. I also read in the front matter that you do recommend rotating midway sometimes with cakes if you have an oven with a pesky hotspot.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah. You need to know where your hotspots are. Those hotspots are really more important when you're using a sheet pan or doing cookies or cakes. But the oven is your best friend and you need to get to know it really well. I try not to rotate unless there's a problem-
Jessie Sheehan:
There's a problem with that.
Dorie Greenspan:
... with the oven or it's a very long bake.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, that's a short bake. Yeah, mine is so uneven. I'm always rotating, or then half the cake is a little bit higher than the other. It's so annoying. So, we're going to transfer the cake to a rack. We're going to wait five minutes. Sometimes people ask you to wait 10 for a bundt, but you're a five-minute girl.
Dorie Greenspan:
It depends. This cake came out so easily.
Jessie Sheehan:
So easily, so nice. We're going to unmold the cake onto a rack, allow to cool to room temp. Any Dorie tricks? I guess this cake is so easy. Any Dorie tricks for removing cakes from bundts just in general?
Dorie Greenspan:
Oh, prayer.
Jessie Sheehan:
I know.
Dorie Greenspan:
Prayer.
Jessie Sheehan:
It's so true. It's so stressful. I do think there must be something about, which makes sense, the density of the cake. If it's like a sour cream lemon bundt, it's harder to get it out.
Dorie Greenspan:
I always worry about the cakes. I love cakes that have a little ripple going through them. But you worry that that's going to stick to the-
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Those are the spots where it will stick right where your ripples.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah. I recommend prayer.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Okay. So, if we are glazing the cake, which we are, we're now going to make your glossy chocolate glaze. We're going to set a heatproof bowl over a pan of gently simmering water. We're going to make sure the bottom of the bowl does not touch the water. Then with the pan over low heat, again, drop, love the verb. We're going to drop in pieces of unsalted butter, followed by some chopped, semi or bittersweet chocolate and a little bit of corn syrup. Will you remind us why we like to add a little bit of corn syrup to a glaze?
Dorie Greenspan:
For glaziness, for glossiness, and also, I think it helps the consistency a little bit. Do you agree?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. I totally use it. I think it almost gives it, this is going to sound weird, but almost a little chew. It gives the glaze itself a little something.
Dorie Greenspan:
I know exactly what you're saying.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. We're going to heat that, stirring frequently until the butter and chocolate is melted. The glaze is smooth and shiny. Want to be careful not to overheat. We do not want to break the emulsion. Remove from the heat. You say the glaze, we can use right away, but if you want it to be thicker, let it stand.
Dorie Greenspan:
Right.
Jessie Sheehan:
When we're putting it on this cake, would you let it stand so it got a little bit thicker?
Dorie Greenspan:
Just for a little bit, but I wouldn't mind if it were thin and covered bunches of cake. That's okay too. Never too much glaze.
Jessie Sheehan:
You suggest that if we want to taste its viscosity, we can pour out a teeny bit like onto a plate or something.
Dorie Greenspan:
Sure, sure.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Now we're going to make the whipped cream. We're working in the bowl of a stand mixer fitted with a whisk attachment, a large bowl with our hand mixer. We're going to beat very cold cream and confectioner's sugar together on low speed just until the cream starts to thicken. I love this. Dorie wants us to taste and see if we want a little more sugar. If so, we'll add it right then. Then we're going to continue beating until you're just shy of the consistency you want. You start beating on medium low, increase to medium, medium high, and you beat until the texture of the cream is almost what you want. Then you finish by hand so you don't overbeat. When you like what you've got, you're going to beat in your vanilla. Why are we waiting on the vanilla?
Dorie Greenspan:
I don't know. Force of habit?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. So, but it's nice. So, then when by the time you put in the vanilla, you're just doing it by hand.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah, you are.
Jessie Sheehan:
Which is nice.
Dorie Greenspan:
With this cake, you might want to go really thick because you want-
Jessie Sheehan:
The blob.
Dorie Greenspan:
You want the blob. Go for the blob. Love, love, love, love.
Jessie Sheehan:
I loved this, Dorie. You have a fascinating instruction for storing whipped cream for 24 hours. Can you tell us, lining the strainer?
Dorie Greenspan:
So you line a strainer with a cheesecloth that's usually dampen the cloth and put the cream in and then I put it over a bowl and then I cover the whole... You need room in your refrigerator and then cover the whole thing. So, the cream will be thicker as it sits there because some liquid, not much, will come out. It's a great way to hold onto cream.
Jessie Sheehan:
I actually will add a little marshmallow fluff-
Dorie Greenspan:
Of course.
Jessie Sheehan:
... or a melted marshmallow.
Dorie Greenspan:
Of course, you would do. But that's a great idea. But that's great.
Jessie Sheehan:
The marshmallow fluff actually, it has egg whites in it, but that doesn't have gelatin and it helps stabilize.
Dorie Greenspan:
That's great.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. It helps stabilize the cream. But I want to try your idea because you also say you can just use damp paper towels.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah, yeah. I used to stable. I don't do that baking anymore. I used to stabilize whipped cream with gelatin-
Jessie Sheehan:
With gelatin.
Dorie Greenspan:
... as you said. So, that it would hold up in layer cakes and decorations. Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
So to finish the cake, we're going to put the rack with the cake on it on a piece of parchment paper or a lined baking sheet, again, a great Dorie-ism. You need a drip catcher, which sounded like a dream catcher to me. I'm like, "Oh, I want a drip catcher." We're going to pour the glaze over the cake if we're using whipped cream, which we are, peeps, we are. We're going to add the whipped cream just before serving, easiest and prettiest to add it with a pastry bag or a plastic bag with the bottom corner snipped off and pipe puffs or swirls on the cake's curves.
If we want to go all out, we'll put a cherry on each cushion of cream. If we really want to go all out, we'll shower the cake with sprinkles or grated chocolate. You have an incredible hair dryer tip for this cake. If we want to freeze our glazed cake, we'll put it in the freezer to firm. Once it's firm, we'll wrap it. Are we wrapping in plastic wrap?
Dorie Greenspan:
That's what I do. What do you do?
Jessie Sheehan:
I do the same. I know people don't love plastic wrap, but that's what I use. I thought this was interesting. So, we will wrap it in plastic wrap. Then when it's time to eat the cake, we will thaw it in its plastic. How come we thaw in the plastic?
Dorie Greenspan:
So you just put it on the counter. Just the way you take it out of the freezer, you put it in that as is state. I think it holds the moisture.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, it can dry out if you take off the plastic.
Dorie Greenspan:
I think so.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Then I love this. Just before serving, we're going to warm our glaze with a few puffs from our hair dryer.
Dorie Greenspan:
A hair dryer, no kitchen should be without it.
Jessie Sheehan:
I know.
Dorie Greenspan:
So I learned that years and years and years ago from Pierre Hermé, the French pastry chef, who we were baking in rings and spring forms without bottoms. We were working on a mousse cake, I guess, and it was cold. It was cold, it wasn't frozen. He said, "Do you have a hair dryer?" I said, "Yeah." He just used it to warm-
Jessie Sheehan:
To slide off the-
Dorie Greenspan:
... to be able to slide the ring up. So, the way we used to wrap spring forms that had cheesecakes, we would wrap them in damp towels or we would dip them. Hair dryer, hair dryer.
Jessie Sheehan:
Love. Well, there was that thing, was it in the New Yorker a couple of years ago where it was an article about... Was it Helen Rosner? I'm not sure, but it was an article about drying out your chicken skin or maybe turkey because you want your skin to fly because then it's crispier when you cook it. Hair dryer.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe soon there'll be special hair dryers for the kitchen.
Jessie Sheehan:
100%. Everyone will have a baby torch, a mini kitchen torch and a mini hair dryer. Now, I want to briefly talk about a couple of recipes, other recipes in the book. Please tell us that Bill's carrot cake has been given a facelift and is now a sheet cake. I love, love, love that.
Dorie Greenspan:
Well, I feel like I was in my period of either rejuvenation, rebirth, renovation. Bill's big carrot cake is a recipe I've had for... I don't know how many years. You loved it. I loved it. Many people have loved it. It's a big cake. It's three layers. It's got cream cheese frosting. When that book came out, Emily Weinstein did a series called The Baker's Apprentice. She baked from that book and she baked the carrot cake. So, it's on The New York Times site as well. It's just a fabulous carrot cake, and I wasn't going to play with it. In each of the recipes that I played with and changed that became a treasured favorite, I wasn't ever going to change them because they were so good, but what if?
Yeah. So, I had this idea that the cake could be a sheet pancake. Of course, when Bill gave me this recipe, people weren't baking sheet cake. I mean, you bought a sheet cake in the supermarket, but that was not the way home bakers were baking. Now, I mean, it's a joy to have a sheet cake. So, I changed the size and the shape of it. But you know what I did, Jessie, and you were in my head. It's thanks to you. I added pineapple. Because you and I had talked about carrot cake, and I don't think I'm making this up. Yeah. I think I can hear your voice saying this. You say, "Why no pineapple?" I said, "Recipe never had it."
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah.
Dorie Greenspan:
And as I was playing with it, I thought, "Okay, I'm really going to make a change. I'm going to add pineapple." Thank you, Jessie. I took out the raisins and the nuts. I still love raisins. I know there are raisin haters out there. I took that out and I took out the cinnamon and put in ginger and coriander. It's such a pleasure to have the chance to revisit something you've loved and make it more like what you love now.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. I love that. Also, I just love a sheet cake and pineapple. I can't wait to make this version of Bill's.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah. I think you'll like it.
Jessie Sheehan:
I think I will too. Okay, final cake that just spoke to me, of course, because the word easy I think is in the title, but Grammy's easy cake.
Dorie Greenspan:
That cake.
Jessie Sheehan:
That cake is like magic. I also love Nancy's illustration of it. I was going to say illu.
Dorie Greenspan:
The illustration is beautiful. So, Grammy's easy cake is like magic. There are a couple of cakes in the book. We talked about Sasha's apple cake. There's an orange cake from Greece that doesn't use flour, but uses sheets of filo dough that you dry in the oven and crumple with your hand. These were all new to me and just so surprising. Grammy's easy cake falls into the surprising and you won't think it'll be a cake, but it is. So, my friend Berna Feuerstein gave me this recipe. We were chatting and I said, "I'm working on a book of simple cakes." I said, "If you have anything you truly love..." She's a wonderful baker. I said, "If you have anything you truly love that you want to share, let me know." And she sent me this recipe. Why does this cake work?
You put the butter in the pan, and this is for you, yes, it has the word easy and also you don't have to cream anything. You slide the pan into the oven with the butter and then it melts. Then you put the flour mixture, the batter mixture in, and you pour it in on top of the butter. The butter comes up all around the side of the batter and you're thinking, "What is going on here?" When Berna sent me the recipe, she said, "Do not mix." It was in cap letters. So, I included that in the recipe because she was so firm. Then you scatter berries on top of it and you do not mix. You put it in the oven and you then take it out and you have cake.
Jessie Sheehan:
Incredible.
Dorie Greenspan:
Cake.
Jessie Sheehan:
Incredible.
Dorie Greenspan:
It's so good. She said that this was a cake that her mother made. She made it for her children and her children make the cake.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. It's just perfect. I have a recipe in my last book for something called a butter swim biscuit.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yes, I know. Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Which is melted butter. But swimming, and you just put the batter on top, but I've never seen it.
Dorie Greenspan:
I wonder if it comes from the same era.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. I've never seen it. I mean, I'm just obsessed with that cake.
Dorie Greenspan:
This could be your swimming biscuits.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, butter swim. Although if you say butter swim cake, people will be like, "Gross." It sounds better with the biscuits.
Dorie Greenspan:
Yeah, that doesn't sound so good. You're right.
Jessie Sheehan:
Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today, Dorie.
Dorie Greenspan:
I love you. Remember, I love you.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love you, and I just want to say that you are and always will be my cherry pie.
Dorie Greenspan:
Thank you. Thank you so much. I love spending time with you.
Jessie Sheehan:
So fun.
Dorie Greenspan:
I'd write another book just to spend time with you.
Jessie Sheehan:
Please, please, or come over anytime without a book. Thank you. That's it for today's show. Thank you to California Prunes and Diamond of California Nuts for supporting our show. You can find today's recipe at cherrybombe.substack.com. Don't forget to follow She's My Cherry Pie on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and tell your pals about us. She's My Cherry Pie is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Our producers are Kerry Diamond, Catherine Baker, and Jenna Sadhu. Thank you so much for listening to She's My Cherry Pie, and happy baking.