Hailee Catalano Transcript
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Hi, everyone. You're listening to The Future Of Food Is You, a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Abena Anim-Somuah. And each week, I talk to emerging talents in the food world and they share what they're up to, as well as their dreams and predictions for what's ahead. I love this new generation of chefs, bakers, and creatives making their way in the worlds of food, drink, media, and tech.
Today's guest is Hailee Catalano. If you're at all plugged into the cooking side of Instagram, you've most likely seen Hailee's calm, straightforward videos of delicious home-cooked recipes. When our plan to break into the New York restaurant scene was upended by COVID, Hailee got creative. She started out making cooking videos as a fun hobby. And today, she's garnered over 400,000 followers on Instagram and counting. Hailee and I sat down together to talk about her Chicago upbringing, her time working in restaurants, and what the future holds for culinary content creators. Stay tuned for our chat.
Thank you to Kerrygold for supporting The Future Of Food Is You. Kerrygold is the iconic Irish brand famous for its beautiful cheese made with milk from Irish grass-fed cows. Spring is here in New York and lots of other places as you know and I love to brighten up my spring produce with my favorite Kerrygold cheese. Kerrygold Cashel Blue farmhouse cheese has become a staple in my salads. The creamy, delicious texture has that distinct blue cheese bite and is a star of my kale and walnut salads. Kerrygold also has some great recipes on their site, and one I have in frequent rotation is roasted broccoli soup, with Kerrygold Dubliner with Irish stout cheese. The sweet and nutty flavor and caramel notes take it to the next level. I've also been loving a classic grilled cheese. Upgrade yours with Kerrygold Reserve Cheddar which is sharp, strong, rich and smooth. For us snackers out there, a personal cheese plate always hits the spot. Kerrygold Skellig, a rich and tangy sweet cheese pairs perfectly with tart apple slices, your favorite crackers, or a pickle or two. Look for Kerrygold cheese at your favorite supermarket, specialty grocery store, or cheese shop. Visit kerrygoldusa.com for recipes, product information and a store locator.
The Cherry Bombe Jubilee Conference is taking place Saturday, April 20th in New York City. It's the largest gathering of women in and around the food, drink, and hospitality space, and an amazing day of conversation and connection. Meet great people, discover the folks behind your favorite brands and gain wisdom from Jubilee speakers. Tickets are on sale now at cherrybombe.com. If you're an official Cherry Bombe member, be sure to check out the special pricing for members. I'll be at this year's Jubilee and I would love to see you there. Now, let's check in with today's guest.
Hailee, welcome to The Future OF Food Is You.
Hailee Catalano:
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I know. It's like another fun way for us to catch up. Can you tell us where you grew up and how did food show up in your life?
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. So, I grew up in Elmhurst, Illinois which is a suburb of Chicago. My dad is Sicilian so I'm half-Sicilian. And a lot of the food stuff was based around his side of the family. Sunday dinners at my grandma's house, everybody would come over. Go to church and then go eat pasta after. Food was always just part of my life and something I would always look forward to from a young age.
Just seeing my grandma cook for everybody, I always remember feeling like, "Wow, that's such a power that this woman has to bring so many people together. Everyone's happy and eating and it's just like the happiest day of the week."
My mom learned how to cook from my grandma. She had her own garden, so I grew up with her making stuff from her garden. And yeah, I just was always around food and I always loved it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So you mentioned that you've always wanted to attend culinary school since you were a kid. I feel like most people who come on the show have always loved food and kind of stumbled into it. What was the moment that really clicked for you?
Hailee Catalano:
I guess it's a little bit of a cliché answer. Everyone's like, "Oh, I watched Food Network."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Of course.
Hailee Catalano:
But we all did. And I remember I was probably, I don't know, I was very young and I was watching “Rachael Ray 30 Minute Meals” and I was like, "This is so fun." And she made a salmon dish and it was salmon with orange marmalade glaze or something.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Very her, yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. And I was like, "Oh, I got to make that. I'm going to tell my mom. Let's buy the stuff to make that." And so I told my mom, she's very supportive. She's like, "Yeah, let's make it." We had to get a grill pan and all this stuff. And she was really supportive of that which I always am so grateful for, very supportive of my hobbies, at the time just a hobby.
She really let me make it and I was really young, probably eight or something. And it had this iceberg salad on the side. I don't know. I still think about that. That's the moment I realized, "Oh, citrus and salmon is good together," anyway.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And that started cooking other flavor combos in your brain.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, right. And I was so young and I just remember serving it to my parents, serving it, whatever. We all ate it. They were like, "Oh, this is so good," and bonded over just eating a piece of salmon. And I just remember feeling like I want to do this my whole life type of thing.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow. That's so beautiful. It's like your Remy moment.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You end up going to culinary school. I'm always fascinated by what classes people take when they're in culinary school.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. So, the one that I went to, I'm not sure if this is all culinary school is how it goes, but the one that I went to, it's like you either choose baking or you choose culinary.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. And you went to the Culinary Institute of America.
Hailee Catalano:
Yep.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Many incredible ... Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, I did the culinary because I always was more interested in that. I mean, I like baking and stuff but on the limited scale I would say. So yeah, I chose the culinary. And then when you choose the culinary, you go through all the same exact classes. Everyone does the same exact ones. And you have the same exact class of people for the whole time.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Your cohort.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, which was really fun. But yeah, the first one is we called it Fundies like Fundamentals of Culinary.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So cute.
Hailee Catalano:
And that one was the longest class when you learned cutting stuff and Hollandaise and stuff like that. Oh yeah, egg week, that was a scary week. Everyone's so scared for egg week. It was like-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What made egg week terrifying?
Hailee Catalano:
Things like making French omelets and no browning the eggs, very French egg techniques which are very good to learn. But honestly, I don't mind a brown egg here and there. Obviously, I actually love it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I love crispy.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
You had to bring up your egg and it had to be the right for over medium, over easy. Oh, not quite, do it again. It's kind of like a TV show. They made it like that, egg week. But yeah, that was fundamentals.
And then, this is like meats class where you learn to butcher stuff, fish. That was also a scary one, fish.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Deboning one, I'm sure.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, all the different debonings and stuff.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow. Imagine if you're just sitting in the quad with your friends, right? Got to go, got fish class or something.
Hailee Catalano:
That was literally it. And it looked like Hogwarts. If you ever look up the CIA like-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, Culinary Hogwarts. Everyone's got toques and stuff.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. It was crazy.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's hilarious.
Hailee Catalano:
And we would all be eating what everyone makes. Whatever's in the hall, it's like, "Oh, I'm eating chicken feet and herb for lunch before I go to fish class."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. You had a different culinary experience than most of us. No ramen noodles in your existence as much.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And obviously, it was expected you're going to culinary school, you're going to start working in restaurants. What was the transition period from culinary school to working professionally?
Hailee Catalano:
In the middle of the culinary school, you go on an externship and you work in a restaurant for I think it's six to eight weeks, depending on how long you do.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's like the summer.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, that was a really good, if you had never worked in a restaurant because a lot of people had worked in a restaurant before going to culinary school. So, that was a really good like, "Oh, this is what it's going to be like in real life."
But then also at the end of culinary school, you have the whole block of restaurants that are in the school that you work in. So then once you go into working in restaurants and stuff, there's obviously a lot of similar things and there's a lot of things that are maybe exaggerated in culinary school which I get that they would do that so you are a little bit more prepared. And then maybe things that are harder than in culinary school. Because it's like, okay, today I failed, but at my job today, I got fired.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Someone's in a restaurant is like, "Oh, we need you to boil hard-boiled eggs." If you can't do that-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You're going to get fired.
Hailee Catalano:
Fired or really ridiculed. Not everywhere, you could be. But some things were I would say harder in culinary school like all call-outs. You'd have to memorize all the orders that you have and a lot of-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Instead of looking at a ticket.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. And a lot of restaurants have tickets now, but both easier and harder in both ways. Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. How would you describe your cooking style and who are you inspired by?
Hailee Catalano:
There's a lot of Midwestern core I believe in my cooking like the comfort core cheese and butter and all that, but then a lot of seasonal ingredients and incorporate with those comfort meals. So I think it's fresh comfort foods, also with hints of Italian here and there. Yeah, that's really basically what I grew up eating between my mom and then my dad. Fresh comfort foods, it's a big thing. A lot of herbs and lemon.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes. I love how you use herbs in your food. A lot of dill, mushroom.
Hailee Catalano:
Yes, I love dill. What is your opinion on dill?
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I love dill.
Hailee Catalano:
Okay, thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I'm Team Dill, by the way.
Hailee Catalano:
I get a lot of people saying dill kills everything, but I'm like, "No."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
No. It's like tarragons, a little overpowering, but then dill gives you that same little bite that you're looking for.
Hailee Catalano:
Yes. You know what? I actually used to also think I didn't like dill because my mom used to love dill to death. She would use dried dill and it was kind of yucky.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Fresh all the way. Fresh all the way. Yeah. So after leaving restaurants, you're deciding what you want to work on and you start working for a small kitchen appliance company.
Hailee Catalano:
Mm-hmm.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Were there any lessons you took from that job that you think really helped you into creating content?
Hailee Catalano:
Yes. Oh, definitely. I was a shopper just for the test kitchen at first, grocery shopper for-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Grocery shopper.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. Because actually in that COVID time, I was Instacart shopper. That's what me and Chuck used to do. Yeah, we had a whole system, not that you need to hear about it but I was proud of that system.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You're an essential worker, too.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, yeah. And so then I found this job. I was like, "Oh, I can do grocery shopping." I really just needed a job. This was for a test kitchen. And then when they realized, "Oh, she cooks," then I was able to do recipe testing and recipe development for it. And it really definitely made me look at a recipe from a totally different lens of somebody making it who doesn't cook.
So that was very helpful because I got to work with a lot of recipe editors and writers that are like, "No, you got to say, someone might not know the core of that or you slice that this way but other people are not going to read it that way." So that was really helpful, just even knowing how to standard write a recipe because I'd never really do that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, you've got to make sure the ingredients are in the order, the directions. Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Right. And the biggest amount to the smallest amounts. In restaurants when we write a recipe, it's just like 30 grams of ingredients.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You're cooking at scale.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, it's different. So totally, there's no method.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. So, that really helped me.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's awesome. So you transition out of that job and you start, well, I think at the time you're making content, you're just making coffee videos. That's the name, Cafe Hailee.
Hailee Catalano:
Right.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What was the motivation to start making those videos?
Hailee Catalano:
I was just scrolling on TikTok as many people do. And I was like, all these videos, even the cooking ones, drink ones, I'm like, "These are just so fun to watch, satisfying." And so I was like, "I'm going to try to do that just because, yeah, I had so much more extra time than I was used to." And I needed a creative outlet because the small appliance place, it was not like a creative working-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You're working for someone else. It's different. Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. And there was no creativity at all which I was really missing. So I was like, "Maybe this could be a good outlet. I'm just going to do it." And it was very silly in the beginning for sure. I mean, what is silly? I don't know. I don't remember the first coffee that I made but I'm sure it was an iced coffee or something.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
There were times where I would make four TikTok posts a day for a long time. I would be posting because it was just coffee so I could make a drink. And then as you could see, I talk fast already.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Like buzz. Yeah, yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. I would just post so much, just coffee.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And were you getting instant likes?
Hailee Catalano:
No.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Or do you feel like it took time before people start to really get to see your work?
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. There was probably a good three months I would say where I was posting multiple, multiple times a day every single day and I would get 100 views or something. But I was just having fun with it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's what you get in a second now. Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. But I was just having fun with it. It was fun. It was fun at the time. Just doing that really helped me. That three months is just learning how to, in my opinion like when I look back on it now, it's like-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It was your sandbox.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, exactly.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, to try things out. That's really cool. You were having a couple of viral moments. People are starting to follow your recipes, you're tagging more. When did it start to click that this could be a career or this could be something substantial for you?
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. With the coffee stuff, I was able to grow my account. And I would get one off things here and there, but it was never something to me that was like this was going to be my career like content stuff. I mean, this is going off on a tangent, but I originally even started also because I was like, "I want to manifest having a cafe of my own one day so I'm going to do one online."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. Well, huge manifestors on the pod, so.
Hailee Catalano:
Okay, great.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
There we go, first one of the day.
Hailee Catalano:
Yes, yeah. With the coffee stuff, I was like, "Oh, maybe this will lead me to having the cafe." That was the dream, the goal, which is still the dream, the goal. But then I started doing food and that's when really things took off more so because obviously that's what I love to do.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back.
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Let's talk about recipe development because I love your recipes. I mean, there's almost like an ease but also a bit of a challenge in your recipes which I think is-
Hailee Catalano:
I like that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
... so beautiful.
Hailee Catalano:
I appreciate that so much.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Of course, yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
I really do.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
When you're thinking about developing recipes, how do you go from an idea to the recipe and then sharing that content online?
Hailee Catalano:
Just throughout my days, I get ideas of things I want to do and then I just put it in my iPhone notes which is a crazy place as most people's are. I'll go back to it and look at it. I'm like, "I don't want to do that. It's boring now." But if I still love it, then I'll make it at home, see how it is.
And then, yeah, if I really, really love it, then I'll make a video on it. But sometimes, I'll even make a video and then even though I've tried it, I'm like, "Oh, wait, I actually hate this now." That happened recently actually.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Back to the boring, yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Not even just because the video, just because I'm like, "Oh, I actually don't think this is that good." Or it's like it's really unreasonable for someone to make this which is something I try to think about but then I also don't want it to stunt what I love to make.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Exactly, yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Which is the way it makes me happy that you said it seems easy but there's a little bit level of being aware of what you're doing.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Which I think is also important in recipe writing because, yes, you want to hold people's hand and you want it to come out well, but also I would love it for people to also learn how to cook as well while doing it. I used to think, "Okay, it has to come out exactly perfect for this person," which I do want that to happen. But there's also a sense of I want people to learn to cook, too. But of course, I want the recipe to come out good. I write it obviously for it to come out well.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You don't want your recipes to be intimidating, but you want people to feel challenged enough.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. So we're not mindlessly cooking because I think cooking is so much about how you feel and-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's intuitive.
Hailee Catalano:
... thinking about it. Yeah, I don't want to take out too much of the intuitiveness of cooking, but also while still making a recipe that's going to be successful, if that makes sense.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow. No, I mean, I think that's the good and bad thing of Instagram is that you get so much content and none of us are seeing that the mental gymnastics you're doing being like, "Okay, what's in season? What would people have in their kitchen? What do I have too much or what do I have too little of?" It's really awesome to hear that there's a lot of thought process and intentionality going into what you're cooking.
But I have to ask. You are making a lot of content. Do you eat everything that you make?
Hailee Catalano:
Oh, yes. See, I know it will come off. I am making a lot of content. It looks like I'm making a lot which I am making a lot of things. But this girl's got to eat so I just eat it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
This girl's got to eat.
Hailee Catalano:
Also, something like a huge soup. We're not going to eat the whole soup. I'll freeze quarts of it. I'll have it for lunch next month or whenever I feel like I want it again. Stuff like that. Or give it away.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So, your Team Leftovers?
Hailee Catalano:
Oh, yes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And that's-
Hailee Catalano:
For sure, Team Leftovers. I love leftovers. That's all I really eat.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I loved how you talked about those three months being sort of like a playground sandbox moment for you. But I love your videos. I think they're just so approachable and they're incredibly lit. I'm always like, "How's she able to get a shot of the video and her with the pepper grinder?" And it's so easy and comforting. Even if I'm not cooking, I'm like, "I can just watch this and fall asleep."
Hailee Catalano:
That's so kind.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Of course.
Hailee Catalano:
Well, I really appreciate that. To me, that's the part that I struggle with a lot. I can do the cooking and stuff. But the filming, I'm like, "Oh, I think I'm so bad at it, honestly."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
No, not in the least, yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Because I don't know what I'm doing. You'll see a lot of cooking. They're very-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Elaborate.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, the video part. Me and Chuck have even tried to get one of those lights. At one point, we got a much nicer camera other than the iPhone. And I tried it and then I was just like, "It's overwhelming to me. I just can't do it."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Simple is best. So, can you walk us through what your kitchen and camera setup looks like and how do you get ready to film a recipe?
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. So, if I'm going to film ... Well, the ones where it's like the voiceover ones, I will have all my ingredients kind of just laid out but-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Mise en place, very nice.
Hailee Catalano:
But nothing cut or anything usually because that's usually in the video. We have to do it between 11:00 I'd say and 3:00 depending on the season.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's the best light.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay.
Hailee Catalano:
For our kitchen.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
And you know what? Sometimes if it's raining, I'll do it anyway because I still want to do it sometimes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's comforting.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. I try for the nice lighting days. And then, I have a mug that I put my phone in.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What?
Hailee Catalano:
I have a tripod but it's just I can't use it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I thought this was a tripod the whole time.
Hailee Catalano:
No.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So, your phone is in a mug.
Hailee Catalano:
If I'm doing it by myself.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay. So when you're standing by the oven or the stove, it's propped in a mug?
Hailee Catalano:
In a mug, yup. Or just maybe if I put it on the side of this or something, something just holding it up.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
But I have a tripod that I try to use it, it's just like it's hard. But now, I'm lucky because Chuck is home and so he's the tripod.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh. So when you're getting the shots over you as things are cooking, that's Chuck and the mug.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. And when Chuck wasn't available to help me, I would just take it out of the mug and then do it from my ... I feel like that's what add dynamic to the video. Some is still and then some is moving.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes. Wow. It's that simple. Good lighting, a mug and Chuck. Yeah, the trifecta.
Hailee Catalano:
Yes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I love it. How do you hope that your audience feels when they cook your recipes at home? Based on the videos and the recipe content and just the intentionality behind thinking about things?
Hailee Catalano:
I hope that the video helps make the recipe more clear and then the recipe makes the video more clear and they kind of work together. And I hope that it's relatively simple and it's like, "Okay, it came out how Hailee said it was going to come out and it's enjoyable and I'm really excited to share this." I just want people excited to share it with other people, too. Or if you're just cooking for yourself, obviously just excited for that.
I also hope that say it's a braised recipe and the meat's braised or whatever that maybe they'll make it so many times because they love it so much and then they realize, "Oh, this is braising. I could do this with other meats," or, "I can make this recipe but I could sub in pork instead." Then it's learning cooking techniques through one recipe. Or they make it so many times that one day they know it by heart and they don't need the recipe. And then hopefully that they feel like cooking becomes intuitive by making a recipe.
I always say, yeah, if you want to learn to cook, I feel like make one recipe. Follow it a bunch of times. And before you know it, you're going to know it by heart and you're not really going to need the recipe and you're going to realize, "Oh yeah, I know how to cook that," instead of, "I know how to cook crispy chicken thighs with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Like, "I know how to make crispy chicken thighs and I'm going to put this on here because I have this," or something like that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What's one piece of advice you'd give to any home cook who is wanting to level up their skills and make great meals?
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. I guess it would be, again, making recipes and learning how to make it really well by following it. And then, like I said, hopefully you'd know it by heart eventually.
Oh, a big thing also. When I was first learning to cook and following recipes when I was young, I never once thought, "Let me try this before serving it," or, "Let me try this before doing the next step."
And then I remember when I learned tasting your food as you go, it was like it sounds so stupid when I say it now, it's like, "Of course you're going to taste it." But no, I remember making pasta and thinking like, "Oh, I hope this tastes good when I eat it in my bowl when I sit down." Not thinking like, "Oh, I could adjust it now before we even have this issue." So I think that's a big thing, too.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I think more recipes should have a little taste.
Hailee Catalano:
Taste it, yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Just give it a taste.
Hailee Catalano:
I wonder how you say that season the taste with salt and pepper, but also it's like maybe you want a little more vinegar in yours.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
We've given hints about Chuck which actually it's funny because I feel like when you and Chuck started both stepping up on the scene, there was conspiracy theories of-
Hailee Catalano:
See, that's so funny.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
... they're in the same kitchen. Oh my God, they're using the same pepper grinder. So for context, Chuck Cruz is also your partner and another exceptional content creator and you two live together and have started doing a lot of fun content together with Friday night dinners on your Instagram to people cooking. And I love it because you get to share this relaxed perspective of just what you're up to and people really seem to love the content.
How did you come up with the idea of Friday night dinners?
Hailee Catalano:
Well, a lot of Chuck and I's ideas just comes when we were drinking way too much coffee. So one day, we were drinking way too much coffee. I mean, I don't know if it was me or it was him, but we were just saying like, "It would just be so fun if we could just make cooking videos where it's just more longer and less based on this is the recipe of the video." It's more so just about cooking and eating together. Whatever we're going to eat for dinner, we're just going to film it like zero edit, really zero editing and just-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Bond.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, I didn't think anybody would really watch it, honestly. I really didn't. That's also the main thing about cooking that we love, too, is cooking together. So we're like, "We should show that because we love that." And it's fun. It's really, really fun. Not that other stuff isn't fun. It's not based on the recipe, recipe which I think is fun.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So you find that your Friday night dinners are more creative, intuitive, just like what's in the pantry, what you've been thinking about all week?
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. Friday is a fun day, so we might be making fun foods like pizza.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Love-
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, fun foods that make us happy or just what we've been craving the whole week type of thing that we didn't necessarily want to make during the week because kind of tired by the end of the day type of thing.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So now that Chuck is a full-time content creator, you're sharing your workspace now, you have your videos to make, he has his videos to make. What are the ground rules in your house for sharing and keeping the space so that you're both able to use it?
Hailee Catalano:
A lot of things with Chuck and I, we don't have spoken rules. We just have rules that we both somehow know without saying it out loud.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Signs of a good couple. Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. So, if I know he's got to do some of it, it's like I somehow just know like, "Oh, I'm a not going to film today," or, "I'm going to be helping Chuck film his." Then he'll help me with things that are more so computer stuff or something that doesn't need to be filming.
It really just depends on the week really. But we're very respectful of each other's needs, I would say. And we're just very used to working with each other. Most of the time, I worked in restaurants, we worked the same exact station.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, so cute.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. So really, this is working sauté with Chuck. That's the highest pressure. That's a lot of pressure just because there's so many things going on. I think it's just we're used to coordinating with each other. And so, in this environment-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Time pressure, environments.
Hailee Catalano:
Right.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
It's a little more chill.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
I mean, definitely a lot more chill. Less chill in other aspects. So we're good at coordinating.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, that's really awesome. I always wondered that because I'm like are you guys like, okay, Tuesday, I've got this video and you can have the light from this time and this time.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. You've gone be able to figure it out.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You were both initially quite private about your relationship and you had never said anything and I would consider two people cooking as the hard launch to use internet speak.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How do you feel about putting your relationship out there with Chuck in public?
Hailee Catalano:
I guess I just never really thought of it as me being private. Yeah, I never thought of it that way so when we did the two people cooking thing, I didn't think anything else of it because I never thought that it was private now going public. I just think to me, it's just-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You just chucked, yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. But then I realized, "Oh, I guess people really were really interested in that and we never really talked about it." I just never thought people really cared, but I guess they do. But not that they really do, I don't know.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I would love to hear how have you found community with other creators or folks in and around the industry?
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, that was one of the first things where I've ever met anybody.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, that trip?
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, definitely. Because I'm trying to get better with saying yes to going to events and stuff because I'm always so nervous and I'm such a nervous person in my opinion. And I'm always sweating. Everything just keeps me-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Don't worry. I'm a sweater, too.
Hailee Catalano:
I know. I can remember this and that made me so happy. I was like, "I need somebody to sweat with me."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. That was our bonding moment.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. This year, I'm going to start saying yes to more things, to meet more people online. Everyone's so lovely. I was like, "Oh wait, I actually haven't met this person in real life." Well, you think you have but everybody in the food content, I feel like they're just so lovely and nice. I'm just going to make an effort to go to things more to actually meet people.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Instagram and TikTok, how do you think about connecting with your audience?
Hailee Catalano:
Well, when I first started doing cooking videos, I did just hands in pants. I wasn't in it at all. I don't know. I just didn't really know how to film anything. But then I was like, I feel like I want to make these videos more personal because I felt like what you're saying like I want to connect more to my audience. And so then, I just put myself in it without even a voiceover. Most of the time, there was no voiceovers.
So it's really a progression of me trying to connect more to my audience.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Finding your voice.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, exactly. And so, I think once I started doing the voiceovers and maybe showing a little bit more parts of my life and stuff, it was more of a community around it, it made it more personable. I really wanted to do that because to me, cooking is so personal and it's not just my hands doing it. It's so many things. We were talking about intuitive cooking, you have to think about it and stuff. So I think that really helped garner a community, if that makes sense.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. And I think you have storytelling, too. I think the way you think about like I love the video data with artichokes and you're like, "Don't be intimidated. This is how I like to eat them. This is how I do it." And it's like people love you and they want to follow that journey.
Part of being a content creator is creating sponsored content and obviously that's the way you're making your income which comes from a lot of brand partnerships. So, you've worked with tons of brands like Graza, Momofuku Foods, just to name a few. What's your philosophy when it comes to working with brands?
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. I really only do things that I really like and that I really would use. It also depends on the campaign itself. What part of the year and stuff, if I want to even do it that time of the year, if you know what I mean. And I also just I never wanted to come out like I'm doing a ton of brand deals. You don't want to be ridden with brand deals but at the same time, it is like my job.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You got to pay the bills.
Hailee Catalano:
Yes. So, I just really am trying to be mindful about doing the right amount, the right people. And yeah, that's what I try to do.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
When you're working with brands, what are sort of the guiding principles you use to create content? Are they coming to you because of your style or are they coming to you because you have an audience and they want you to share their product?
Hailee Catalano:
Most of the time when it's something, like I said, something like spring, we want to use this during the spring with a spring recipe. Most of the time, that's the creative part that they do. And then they really let me do any ... I've never had a thing where it's like, "Oh, you can't make that." They really let me do what I want to do. I've never had an issue with that, so that's very lovely.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How lucky.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. So, I just make the recipe. They approve the recipe but I've never had someone say no to the recipe. And then, yeah, so usually I feel very empowered to make something that I want to make with just like Kerrygold butter which is the best butter.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That is signature butter, the best.
Hailee Catalano:
Yup. You can't go wrong.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. Obviously, we're huge manifestors on the podcast. Are there any dream brands that you would love to work with or visit or check out?
Hailee Catalano:
I don't know if I was talking to you about this but there's a Dijon mustard trip.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes. We talked about this.
Hailee Catalano:
Which is it great before?
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's mild.
Hailee Catalano:
Oh.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, yeah.
Hailee Catalano:
That's what I would love.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Because I think we were manifesting this after the-
Hailee Catalano:
Yes. Okay. So we're doing it again.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. We're manifesting again.
Hailee Catalano:
That's a dream, for sure. I would love to do that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How do you find time to take care of yourself and not fall into the pressures of constantly having to produce on social media?
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. Well, honestly, my whole life, even if it was just school or if it was later on to my restaurant career, blah, blah, blah, this, I've always had an issue with balancing that. I don't know, honestly. And I don't want to be that person where it's like I just work so much. I'm not saying that. I just am a person. So, I'm always thinking about it because I do that. I ruminate on things. And so, it's just something that I am definitely still working on.
But lately, I know everyone says this, but getting my steps in the beginning of the day has been-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's all you mean.
Hailee Catalano:
... a clarity for me. So, even just that has been helping me. But yeah, it's definitely something that's a corner of I need help with myself.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, no, it takes time. But it seems like maybe there's some aspects of cooking that are even more comforting to you. It seems like Friday night dinners are-
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, that's a great-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
... whatever release.
Hailee Catalano:
Yes, yeah. Cooking has always been the number one thing. But then it also is my job which is I'm also obviously very grateful for. So it's a whole thing. It's whole thing.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, definitely. What are your thoughts on the current state of the food industry from your perspective as a content creator?
Hailee Catalano:
The beauty of social media is that you could post whatever you want to post. If you want to create food content, I think go ahead. As long as you're not doing anything out of malice or anything like that, if it's authentic to you, I think it's lovely. And I think everyone should feel empowered to do that if they want to.
But if you don't want to, I don't think that you should also feel pressured to do so. And I know that the internet can make you feel pressured to do so. Obviously, there's so many other ways to be in food or talk about food without necessarily totally focusing on social media, because obviously that's what I did before. But I do think it's a beautiful thing that there is a place that if you want to express yourself, you can.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Obviously, you're kind of posting your work to a large audience. You have no expectations of what people are going to say, but sometimes there are negative comments. It doesn't seem like you get too many of them. But when you do get them, what are some of your strategies for dealing with the naysayers out there?
Hailee Catalano:
Well, I just think that it's inevitable because that's the internet. Most of the time when it's a negative comment, it's something like more so based on the cooking of something like they wouldn't do it that way or those anchovies are disgusting or something like that. It's like-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Very personal opinions.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. And so it's like that doesn't bother me because it's just like, I mean, that's fine if you think that and if you want to write that. I'm saying you can because I have a comment section. I mean, you can write that if you want. So it doesn't bother me.
I guess the things about my parents, that also doesn't bother me. To me, that's not who I am. It's just an outward-facing thing of me. But it's like if people attack my character, those are things that I have really issues with and I will dwell on which doesn't happen a lot. But I can only think of a couple instances. If it's something about my character, then it really affects me. I just think like, "Oh my God, maybe I'm a terrible person or something."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's far from the truth.
Hailee Catalano:
But yeah. But like I said, that happens very rarely. So otherwise, it's just things that are what I find to be silly comments and so I just yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. Just sweep under the rug.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, exactly.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Where do you hope to see yourself in the next five to 10 years and where do you think your content will take you?
Hailee Catalano:
People ask me this a lot. And if you told me five years ago from now, I would be like, "There's no way I would be doing that. I don't even like people taking pictures of me. I don't like any of that." So I'm like, "There's no way I would ever be videoing myself and putting it on the internet. You're crazy." That's why it's really hard for me to answer those types of things because I just very much just try to live in the current, what I'm doing now, because also I get overwhelmed very easily so I try not to think too much about the future.
But five years, I hope maybe I have a cookbook or something. That would be lovely. And yeah, just continue growing the community of people that hopefully enjoy the recipes.
Also, pop-ups, I would love to be doing that. That's a goal for the year actually.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You and Chuck, please save me a ticket because you're going to sell out.
Hailee Catalano:
I don't know. I don't know. But we would love to do that. But yeah, I would love to have a small cafe that's probably more longer than five years. But that's always been my dream, just to have a community place, nothing too crazy. I just want a place where the people that live in that place love to come there and just enjoy a little lunch and just something very simple.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, good sandwich.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, a nice loaf of bread and stuff like that. So, that would be the main goal at some point if that ever happened. I don't know.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I love that. And what do you think the future is for content creators, particularly in the food industry?
Hailee Catalano:
It's hard because it's so new. It feels like it's not new but it's extremely new. It's just the sheer amount of content makes you feel like it's been happening forever. But it's like I really feel like very new.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, new in the grand scheme of things.
Hailee Catalano:
Yes. Yeah. I don't know. It depends on what the person wants from it. Maybe you're creating food content just to gain a following. And from that, you have nothing else which is fine, that's fine. But maybe some people want to grow this community so they can then open or have a cookbook.
So really, I feel like it's very dependent on the person. But yeah, I feel like it's also fine if your main goal is just to keep creating content. That's just what you want to do. With doing content, there's always something else that you could branch off into and trying out.
But I do think a lot more pop-ups are already happening which I think is really fun. And that's something, again, I really want to do like cook for people again because I really do miss that. I miss that aspect of cooking for people other than Chuck which I love him but-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
She's bored. No, I'm kidding. Yeah. No, it sounds like you see content creation almost as an avenue to opportunity. So it's like you can create the content just to create it or you can create it so it gives you the audience to then have a cookbook, host a pop-up, open your restaurant, open your cafe.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah. And also, I think it's also fine if you have no idea what you want to do but you want to start creating content. I think that's great because you can learn it on the way.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Experience is the best teacher.
Hailee Catalano:
Yeah, exactly.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. That's awesome. Well, Hailee, this was such an incredible conversation. You are doing such incredible work. And if we want to continue to support you, where are the best places to find you.
Hailee Catalano:
You can find me at @haileecatalano in Instagram and TikTok, and also at @2peoplecooking on Instagram and TikTok as well.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Amazing. Thank you so much.
Hailee Catalano:
Thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Before we go, our guest is going to leave a voicemail just talking to themselves 10 years from now. You have reached The Future Of Food Is You mailbox. Please leave your message after the beep.
Hailee Catalano:
Hey, Hailee, I hope you're happy. I hope you're doing well 10 years later. I hope that you, Gus and Chuck are just living your little dream. I hope that maybe you've released your first cookbook and that it went well. I hope maybe you're working on another cookbook or working on a cookbook with Chuck or even opened a cafe with Chuck. That would be lovely.
And yeah, I just hope that you remember to find your inner peace and not overwhelm yourself too much as you tend to do. And just remember that the love of cooking is what brought you here and what brings you your peace and that you don't overthink that and you just focus on your inner peace. And that's it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's it for today's show. I would love for you to leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to our show. Thank you to Kerrygold, Hampton Grocer, and Dona for supporting our show. The Future Of Food Is You is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Thanks to the team at CityVox Studios, Executive Producers Kerry Diamond and Catherine Baker, Associate Producers Jenna Sadhu and Elizabeth Vogt, and Content Operations Manager Londyn Crenshaw. Catch you on the future flip.