Chef Hillary sterling transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You're listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. If you're new to our show, each week, we talk to the coolest culinary personalities around, the folks shaping and shaking up the food scene. I'm a big fan of today's guest. It's Hillary Sterling, the executive chef of Ci Siamo, the latest restaurant from the esteemed Union Square Hospitality Group. Ci Siamo is tucked in a lovely, quiet corner of Manhattan West, a new development in New York City. The cuisine is Italian-focused with lots of open-fire cooking and a big open kitchen. So Chef Hillary and her team are on full display each evening, as we will discuss.
I ate there the other night, and everything was fantastic. I saw some old friends, drank some Prosecco, ate some great pasta and gelato, and left very happy. Chef Hillary has had an amazing career and has cooked at some of the best restaurants in New York City. She started out in the industry as a teenager, busing tables out in Montauk, the beach town at the very end of Long Island, but it took a little while to realize she was meant to be a chef. Hillary will join us in just a minute to talk about her journey and Ci Siamo.
Since we're on the topic of chefs and delicious food, let's talk about today's sponsor, Territory Foods. Territory Foods delivers healthy meals right to your door. Territory has been sending me meals to try this month, and I love what they've delivered. Territory works with talented local chefs to create their menu items, which means Territory's meals are fresh because they're cooked and packed locally then delivered across town, not shipped across the country. The chefs work with Territory's registered dieticians to make sure everything is made with nutrient-dense ingredients for a healthy, balanced diet.
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A little housekeeping. We are going to have a lot of announcements coming up soon about our Jubilee conference. It's happening in person in New York City this April 2nd and 3rd. Early bird tickets are on sale right now at cherrybombe.com. Stay tuned for news about our location, our lineup, and more. Now, let's talk to today's guest.
Hillary Sterling, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Hillary Sterling:
Thank you so much.
Kerry Diamond:
Nice to see you again.
Hillary Sterling:
Absolutely.
Kerry Diamond:
I saw you less than 24 hours ago.
Hillary Sterling:
That is correct.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. So you have one of the most open kitchens I have ever seen. How is that for you and your crew?
Hillary Sterling:
We are welcoming the guest in in every facet of this restaurant. You can see us, you can hear us, you can smell the wood, the garlic, the toasting, the roasting of the vegetables. I think it's part of the dining experience. It's definitely challenging for the team, and sometimes we have to remind each other we're not alone. That's a common thing we say in the kitchen, "Remember, we're not alone here." I think it really helps in keeping your cool, being calm and collected, and-
Kerry Diamond:
I would think so.
Hillary Sterling:
It's a speech I give before I hire anybody. I was like, "Just so you know, the guests are with us. So if you don't handle pressure well, this might not be the spot for you."
Kerry Diamond:
This should be a tactic that all restaurant owners do moving forward, just open kitchens. Everybody will be better behaved.
Hillary Sterling:
Yeah. It's great. Yeah. I mean, you have to gently put your pans down and put your spoons down and there's... It's a different way of doing things. I've had open kitchens before, but this one is... I mean, it is transparent. It's transparent.
Kerry Diamond:
That's funny. So tell us what Ci Siamo is all about.
Hillary Sterling:
Ci Siamo, it means we're ready, we're here.
Kerry Diamond:
That's what it means?
Hillary Sterling:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I love that.
Hillary Sterling:
So Ci Siamo, if you were in a restaurant, you would say, if the server comes over, you're ci siamo, you're ready, let's order, or we have arrived, or... I mean, there's a lot of different meetings to it. When this concept started, we were looking for a name that said we're welcoming New York City back after the pandemic or within still the pandemic. But we're all trying to get back to normal, and we have arrived in a newer location, a newer neighborhood, and welcoming and saying, "Hi, we're here."
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's really lovely. So it's a Danny Meyer restaurant. How did Danny pitch the project to you?
Hillary Sterling:
Danny and I met years ago at an event. I served him some pasta and just began a relationship. This time around, they were looking... Pre-pandemic, it was supposed to be something a little bit different, and then after the pandemic, we reconvened, and it has open fire and pasta. We wanted people be ready to come out of their homes and eat something else different again but also still warm and inviting and all of those things I love so dearly. So it was a package, a whole thing that I was like, "Oh, I really would love to do this project with you."
Kerry Diamond:
How did you go about creating the menu?
Hillary Sterling:
So that was the hardest part, because you're... When I first saw the space, it was just cement walls, cement walls and windows. Obviously, you see plans on paper and screens, and to be able to develop a concept that would work in this space, get people to come to Manhattan West... So I was really racking my brain. I love pasta. I love vegetables. I love aperitive most of all. There's nothing better than some toast and anchovies. We were sitting in a couple meetings early on, and Danny basically said he wanted it to feel like we were going out to come home. So I had no idea what that meant. Of course, I go home, and I was sitting at my dining room table, and after a day of cooking this prospective menu that I had written and we were testing stuff and I was like, "Where is this going? Where is this going?" I sat down, I poured myself a Campari and soda, and with any Campari and soda, you need a snack, of course, and I had a bowl of pistachios.
I was home alone, and I just was sitting there, no music on. I didn't even turn the lights on. It was early summer, so there was still light in the apartment. I just sat there with this bowl of pistachios and this Campari soda, and I was like, "Oh my God, this is what he means." So it went from this aha moment of, "Oh, oh, okay, I understand we're inviting people over and how you would eat in my home," which goes along with the open kitchen. There wouldn't be a barrier between me and you if you were in my house and I was cooking dinner. You wouldn't be on the other side of the wall. You would be in the kitchen, snacking on pistachios with me, having a Campari and soda. So that moment, and then I went through this whole path of trying draw out the smoke in the flavor and then bring those pastas forward and really find things that I wanted to eat again or iterations or things that I longed for after the pandemic and bringing them to light at Ci Siamo.
Kerry Diamond:
What are your favorite dishes on the menu, and what seem to be the diners' favorite dishes so far?
Hillary Sterling:
For me, we have a pizza bianca with anchovies and salsa verde and garlic aioli with these vinegar-y peppers. For me, that's one of my favorites.
Kerry Diamond:
That would be so nice to just sit at the bar with a cocktail and that and done. Nice.
Hillary Sterling:
Right? That's it. That's all you need.
Kerry Diamond:
Mm-hmm.
Hillary Sterling:
And we can move on to another location or whatever it may be. It's a complete meal. The onion torta, the caramelized onion torta, which-
Kerry Diamond:
I had that last night.
Hillary Sterling:
Yeah. That goes on the... Yes, I love the dish, but it goes on the... It probably will stick around for a very long time.
Kerry Diamond:
Can you describe that dish?
Hillary Sterling:
So the onion torta is caramelized Cipollini onions braised in onion stock and Madeira and parm rinds, and then we serve it in a Pecorino pie crust with a Pecorino... So it's kind of a fonduta, a little balsamic, thyme, and black pepper. Yeah, it's a little ridiculous.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. You might want to pace yourself if you order that. We over-ordered a little last night on the pasta side. So if you start the meal with that, you might want to lighten up in some other areas. It was fabulous.
Hillary Sterling:
It's a great one to share. It-
Kerry Diamond:
I did share it, yes. It was a great one to share. Okay, what else?
Hillary Sterling:
The tagliatelle with buffalo butter and tomato, one of my personal favorites.
Kerry Diamond:
What was the inspiration behind that? I mean, I know Marcella Hazan has her famous-
Hillary Sterling:
Of course.
Kerry Diamond:
... tomato sauce with butter.
Hillary Sterling:
So on my first date with my now wife, she ended the date with, "Do you think Marcella Hazan uses too much butter in her tomato sauce," and I was like, "Oh my God, who are you?" Right?
Kerry Diamond:
A miracle you got married after that.
Hillary Sterling:
I was like, "I mean, I guess so, but I think it's a lot." So it's always been a running theme with us. When I was looking at this pasta section, I was like, "How do I make a tomato sauce so beautifully and simple and elegant but also rich and flavorful?" So I started playing with buffalo butter and that basic Marcella Hazan inspiration and then found the best tomatoes I can find and the best buffalo butter I can find and the sweetest onions I can find and put them all together, and just as simple as a super delicate pasta with this insanely sweet but rich and acidic forward tomato sauce. So that's one of my personal favorites. The rigatoni alla gricia is a fan favorite so far. The guanciale we use is coming from a husband and wife couple from Hurleyville, New York from Italy, and it's just an incredible product, La Salumina. They are sold, I think, in the city, but they deliver to us, and they can't even keep up with the amount of guanciale we need.
Kerry Diamond:
I had that dish last night. That was very good. All you want to do is squirrel that dish away and sit on a comfy couch with a glass of wine and not share it.
Hillary Sterling:
And not talk to anybody about it.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. Exactly.
Hillary Sterling:
And alla gricia is one of those dishes that I don't think people... I don't think it gets its day. The carbonara and the amatriciana and the cacio e pepe get their day. The alla gricia is kind of like the last sibling that doesn't get any attention.
Kerry Diamond:
Aww. Tell us the preparation.
Hillary Sterling:
So, for alla gricia, it's kind of like cacio e pepe and carbonara come together without the egg. So rendering guanciale, getting all that fat, lots of black pepper, lots of Pecorino and Parmigiano. So it has the components and the soul of a cacio e pepe, but it needs a little bit of smokiness and spice from the guanciale.
Kerry Diamond:
So good. We haven't even gotten to the proteins.
Hillary Sterling:
I know. We're heading that way now.
Kerry Diamond:
There are proteins on the menu, people, just in case you were wondering.
Hillary Sterling:
The trout is a big favorite of mine.
Kerry Diamond:
I had that. Oh, I ordered well last night. Okay.
Hillary Sterling:
You did. You did very, very well.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm happy about this. Yeah. Okay. So the trout, how do you prepare that?
Hillary Sterling:
It's butterflied and de-boned, and then we fill it with our ode to Zuni Cafe of mustard greens and golden raisins and garlic breadcrumbs and pine nuts and red wine vinegar and scallions. We serve it with a serrano chili.
Kerry Diamond:
That was so good.
Hillary Sterling:
It's kind of like the Italian version. Scallions, serranos, lime, lemon zest, fish sauce.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, that had a real kick to it. That fish dish was fun because the first time you stick your fork into it or cut into it, it's filled with surprises. All these things are tumbling out of it, and you're like, "There's bread in this and raisins and all these things," and it was very good.
Hillary Sterling:
It really is one of my favorites. I guess if I'm going to choose another favorite, I would say our chicken, but it hasn't had its day yet.
Kerry Diamond:
Aww.
Hillary Sterling:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Really? That's a good thing because most places, isn't the chicken usually the most popular?
Hillary Sterling:
Yeah. And at Vic's, it was definitely one of the most popular things we served. But the chicken is so simple. It's roasted with grilled lemons and sunchokes cooked in chicken fat. It's just a really-
Kerry Diamond:
I mean, Barbuto's is probably a roast chicken factory.
Hillary Sterling:
Oh my God, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
People can't have enough of Jonathan Waxman's chicken. Do you think it'll catch on or you're going to take a look at that?
Hillary Sterling:
No, I mean, I think it will eventually. I think when we open for more meal periods and, eventually, the trout will wean just a touch and the lamb. We have a smoked swordfish that I do really enjoy as well. But, yeah, I mean, one day.
Kerry Diamond:
One of the thrills of the restaurant is you are also working with the legendary Claudia Fleming.
Hillary Sterling:
She is incredible.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us about Claudia and what are Claudia's contributions to the menu?
Hillary Sterling:
So Claudia is basically the backbone of the pastry department for all of USHG. But, I mean, she's a perfectionist. I thought I made good focaccia and then I learned that that wasn't very good. We spent all summer making this focaccia that we're serving now.
Kerry Diamond:
The summer of focaccia.
Hillary Sterling:
It was the summer of focaccia, lemon tarts, and gelato. We basically started from ground up, like nothing on the table. What do we need to make? What do we need to do? For me, Ci Siamo was really important that it was one fluid motion from the moment you walk in the door to be greeted with Tom and the cocktails. Everything had to flow together, and it had to feel like one. So Claudia and I worked on gelatos and flavors and textures, and she came up with all these recipes and just repeatedly tested them. So I think every day for weeks we made focaccia.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow.
Hillary Sterling:
We just made focaccia, and we made chocolate budinos and lemon tarts every day.
Kerry Diamond:
That sounds like some people's idea of heaven. For folks who aren't exactly sure who Claudia is, the first thing I'll say is shame on you. But second thing I'll say is she was on the podcast a few months ago. Claudia was the famous pastry chef from Danny's Gramercy Tavern and-
Hillary Sterling:
Absolutely.
Kerry Diamond:
... went away and did her own thing for a while. Now, she's back within Danny's organization. I can speak for myself. When I read that you and Claudia were the backbone of this restaurant, I think I let out a little cheer in my apartment, and I know a lot of other people in New York City did.
Hillary Sterling:
Well, thank you. It's been such a pleasure.
Kerry Diamond:
When did you find out you would be working with Claudia on this project?
Hillary Sterling:
Oh, not till... I mean, I think it was April. When I first joined the organization, they're like, "Oh, and one more thing," and I was like, "One more thing? What do you mean, one more thing?" They were like, "Oh, and Claudia Fleming will be assisting in this opening." I was like, "Excuse me?" I was like-
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. That's a biggie. I mean, Claudia really in the pastry chef's pastry chef, and she has a legendary cookbook that was reissued. If you are a pastry chef or aspiring pastry chef and you're listening to this, you might want to check it out. We ordered the lemon tart, which was beautiful, and it came with the little dollop of-
Hillary Sterling:
Meringue, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
... torched meringue on the side. Then we ordered all the gelato because I absolutely love ice cream and can't not order gelato if it's on the menu, and I loved the presentation. I just assumed it would come out in little balls of gelato in one bowl, but each got its own sundae glass, essentially. I'm sure you're a fan of his paintings, the late Wayne Thiebaud, who just died at the end of the year. He's a famous American painter, and for those of you who don't know Wayne, definitely look him up. His work inspired so many pastry chefs and so many photographers and food stylists. But when the three ice creams came out, it really looked like a Wayne Thiebaud tableau, and I just thought, "Oh, that's that's so Claudia. That's so beautiful and thoughtful."
Hillary Sterling:
It just needed to be fluid in just the way to put the gelato in and give it its own star. It has its own section. We're not going to hide it. Here you are. Let's have a big scoop of hazelnut gelato.
Kerry Diamond:
And then there was this beautiful little circle of lemon curd on top of one of them, and I was like, "Oh, this is so lovely," and I ate 10 times more gelato than I had planned to, so thank you, Hillary. But it was very, very good. What is it like opening a restaurant in the middle of a pandemic versus a regular opening?
Hillary Sterling:
I mean, I think any opening is going to be challenging. I think the excitement behind this is really pushing everyone through. Yes, everyone has their flower-covered mask and sauce-covered mask and we're tasting food and removing the mask, putting it back on, and it's really maintaining that and that all these people are inside with us every day. It's a dedication. As long as we're being honest and open with our team and telling them what's going on and being protective of them, then that's the best we can do. I mean, any restaurant's opening is hard. Now, this just adds another layer, and we've been living this world for a while now, so I think that it's becoming a little bit more, unfortunately, normal and second-nature to the staff and the team.
And Danny's restaurants are requiring that you are actually boosted in addition to being vaccinated. I'm not sure who else is doing that aside from Danny, but that's a big step.
We had a booster clinic last week come to the restaurant to help the team if they were unable to get appointments or they didn't want to wait. They'll be doing them every week to make sure that everyone has that opportunity to get boosted.
Kerry Diamond:
Your guests have to be boosted.
Hillary Sterling:
At certain point, yes. There's a date on the calendar that will require that as well.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, it's not required yet? Okay. Okay.
Hillary Sterling:
We had to give everyone an opportunity to get boosted.
Kerry Diamond:
Got it. Okay. So in the near future-
Hillary Sterling:
In the near future-
Kerry Diamond:
... if you're going, you need to be boosted. Very interesting. How's the staffing situation?
Hillary Sterling:
I've had a pretty good time at that. We definitely had a lot of interest in this restaurant opening. With open fire and pasta, I have two things that are really exciting to learn how to do. To be able to manage your own fire and cook at the same time is really a skillset that is hard to find elsewhere, and I've gotten a great team that we're excited to join this project. So far, so good. We're opening more meal periods soon, so we're probably looking for more team members to expand. But we had a great opening team that are still with us and still going strong.
Kerry Diamond:
For our listeners who are actually really listening and paying attention, they might be thinking, "Didn't you say it's a very open kitchen?" So how do you do open fire and open kitchen?
Hillary Sterling:
That's the heart of the restaurant. You can see it. You can smell it when you walk in the door, see it when you turn the corner, and it's about maintenance. There's two people on that station. One has... Really, that's their job, is to cook the trout and maintain the fire. Those are the two things, and to really just keep an eye on it because you have to read it. You have to see what it needs and keep giving it... It's like treating anybody else. You have to actually watch it, learn, listen, and see how to keep it going because if that fire goes out, that trout will never be grilled.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about how you became a chef. You started working at restaurants in Montauk as a teenager. You're a native Brooklynite. I loved reading that. At the time, did you see restaurants in your future?
Hillary Sterling:
You know, I didn't.
Kerry Diamond:
What were we doing? You were just busing tables?
Hillary Sterling:
Yeah, I was busing... I mean, I could walk there. There was a restaurant by the train station in Montauk called the Blue Marlin, and my family had a very small cottage up the road, and [crosstalk 00:19:44]-
Kerry Diamond:
I'm guessing this was before Montauk turned into-
Hillary Sterling:
Yes, this was 30-something years ago.
Kerry Diamond:
... some of the awfulness that has invaded Montauk. Yeah.
Hillary Sterling:
It's very different. It was very different. I would go back to this restaurant every summer, and I'd bus tables, and I'd leave with $80 cash, and I was like, "Wow, this is great."
Kerry Diamond:
Probably thought you were the richest kid in the world.
Hillary Sterling:
Yeah. And I'd give it to my parents because they would take it-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, right.
Hillary Sterling:
Totally.
Kerry Diamond:
Mm-hmm. Yep, I remember those days
Hillary Sterling:
... and put it in an account. I'd need it one day. I just was like, "Okay," and I just kept doing this. My mom was a bookkeeper for a catering company actually not far from here, a couple blocks away, actually. So I'd come in high school and help her do some invoices, just a little after-school job. Then I just kept going. After college, I moved to Chicago, and before my job started in logistics, I was working at a bar across from Rigley Field for the summer, which was a blast, such a... Really, what an amazing summer. I just loved it. Then I was sitting at a desk, and I was like, "Okay, I'm not loving this," and-
Kerry Diamond:
That logistics experience would've come in handy, though, in 2021, '22.
Hillary Sterling:
I mean, I still move things from point A to point B, so-
Kerry Diamond:
Yes, you do. You skipped over college. You went to Indiana University and studied business and sociology.
Hillary Sterling:
Oh, yes. I did. I went to IU straight from Brooklyn, and it was definitely an eye-opening experience-
Kerry Diamond:
Culture shock, yep.
Hillary Sterling:
... for my roommates and for me. I definitely had a much thicker accent back then.
Kerry Diamond:
You don't really have an accent. I grew up in Staten Island, and I don't have that much of an accent. So Indiana University, what was your plan, that you would use that business degree?
Hillary Sterling:
I was going to business school. I was going to do marketing. I mean, I still love that aspect of the restaurant industry. I didn't actually know. I was 17 when I went to college. I was like, "I'm going to college. I picked this school. It's pretty. It's got a great business school. It's so different than where I'm from." All these people that I met, I went alone essentially. I think one other person from my high school went. This was before the New York invasion of Indiana University, and we were an anomaly.
I navigated my way, and I remember our junior year project was to create a business plan for Santa Maria salsa, and we had to do an entire... The whole school had to do the same project about salsa. I fell in love with that aspect of the web design and the business plans and all those things. It just stayed with me, and after college I worked at a bar and worked in logistics, and then I decided if I was going to open my own restaurant one day, I should learn how to cook.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, when did that pop in your head?
Hillary Sterling:
When I was sitting at my desk with two computers staring at moving things from point A to point B. I worked in another restaurant in Montauk called O'Murphy's Pub right in the circle.
Kerry Diamond:
O'Murphy's?
Hillary Sterling:
O'Murphy's Pub.
Kerry Diamond:
Not just Murphy's, O'Murphy's.
Hillary Sterling:
No, O'Murphy's. The owner of the restaurant, Nancy Neff, who is still out in Montauk, I came in one day and she was behind the line, and I'd never seen her cook. Someone had called out, and I came in because I was waiting tables there that summer, and I was like, "Nance, are you okay? What's happening?" She's like, "So-and-so was sick today, so I'm cooking" It just stuck with me for years of, "Okay, you're an owner, you can jump in and cook." I was like, "Okay, do you need anything," because at that point I'd worked a little bit in the kitchen there and a little bit on the floor.
So fast forward, I'm sitting at my desk in Chicago and there was... Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School was two blocks away. So I was like, "Okay." I came home for Christmas, and I was like, "Mom, Dad, I think I want to do this. It's right around the corner." It was a four room culinary school, nothing big at that time, and-
Kerry Diamond:
But still expensive.
Hillary Sterling:
Compared to what it is now. I mean, it was expensive, but, now, I don't understand how... I mean, it's crazy. The program was a year long, and I could do it after work at night. So I went to culinary school to be like, "If I'm going to open a restaurant"-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, so you did it at night?
Hillary Sterling:
I did it at night.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay.
Hillary Sterling:
So I worked during the day, and then I went to school at night.
Kerry Diamond:
That's an easier sell to your folks, I would imagine.
Hillary Sterling:
Yeah. I mean, I was self-sufficient. I was in Chicago. I worked. I paid my rent, car, all that stuff. I was like, "I think I'm going to do this. If I'm going to own a restaurant, I need to know how to cook."
Kerry Diamond:
So the idea was more owner than chef?
Hillary Sterling:
Mm-hmm.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. When did that flip?
Hillary Sterling:
The day I put my chef whites on. It was this moment of... I walked into that school nervous in my chef jacket and checkered pants, not knowing what I was-
Kerry Diamond:
You don't wear those anymore.
Hillary Sterling:
I do not. I don't think anybody does. It just was an immediate moment because I'd always cooked and I cooked for my friends in college and I cooked in Chicago for... I always loved cooking and the act of it, but I didn't realize like the power that chef whites actually have over you.
Kerry Diamond:
I mean, there's cooking and there's chefing. What was it about you that made you good at that aspect of it?
Hillary Sterling:
I always loved the dance of the restaurant in the front, right? I'd always worked watching the dance in the back. I learned that moment of where that... You don't have to say anything to the person next to you, and you're both coming up together to the window, and this non-communication level of cooking where you're one with your products. A chef once told me, "Become one with the pork," and I was like, "Okay," and I understood eventually what it meant. But I was like, "Okay, I'll be one with the pork." Just that teamwork to build an experience for a guest that's immediate and you can see it.
Kerry Diamond:
This has nothing to do with what we're talking about exactly, but it just popped in my head. When I was studying up on you, I read something about you referring to pasta and sauce having to do something with wearing a sweater. Can you tell us that?
Hillary Sterling:
For some reason, in the kitchen, I do think very fast, and sometimes I say things that... The cook will stop dead in their tracks and stare at me and be like, "I'm not really sure what that means, but okay. Yeah, Chef. Moving on." We were talking about the marriage of pasta, and I wanted to explain that the sauce should hug the pasta and keep it warm and cozy, and they didn't want a swimsuit to wear in a pool. I mean, eventually, once I explained it after service and be like... Because in the heat of the moment, this is what's coming out of my mouth, and I was like, "Oh my God, this is insane. No one's going to understand me." The cooks kind of smiled sheepishly, like, "Okay." But, yeah, I was trying to explain that they just wanted the... It was a ravioli dish.
Kerry Diamond:
So your pasta wants to be in a sweater. It doesn't want to be in a swimming pool.
Hillary Sterling:
Exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
Got it. Okay.
Hillary Sterling:
But it didn't need a swimsuit.
Kerry Diamond:
That's a fun tip. I'm going to think about that every time I make pasta now. What brought you back to New York?
Hillary Sterling:
After culinary school, that time in 2000 in Chicago, the options were... It's not the same food scene it is now. It was either I worked at Charlie Trotter's, Blackbird, or TRU, I believe. Those were my three options. As much as I regret never... I should've stayed and maybe tried to work at Trotter's or TRU or to work with those amazing chefs. I came back to spend a summer in Montauk cooking again because then I wanted to travel and I needed to make the money to travel. So I spent six months in Montauk working seven days a week in every facet in many different lines in many different kitchens, just really getting back into it. Then I traveled for six months, and then I came back to New York.
Kerry Diamond:
Where did you travel?
Hillary Sterling:
I started with a friend in London, and then we went up to see some friends in Ireland because there's a large Irish population in Montauk. So we went to visit some friends. Then he wanted to go to Milan, and he didn't have any money left anymore, so I just went, and I was like, "I guess I'm going to Milan." It was a really cold rainy day, and I hated Milan that day. I love Milan now dearly. But I was like, "Okay," and I remember I called my sister and I was like, "What do I do?" She's like, "Go to Florence. You'll find some Americans, and you'll get acclimated." This was before smartphones, so I had to go buy a map and figure it out. I went to Florence, and I loved it. I have never been back to Florence since then, that one trip. Then I just fell into a rhythm, and I stayed in Italy for probably about two months, and then I would go somewhere else and then come back to Rome, and I used Rome as my home base for months. I got comfortable there. I loved it.
Kerry Diamond:
And you were by yourself that whole time. Wow.
Hillary Sterling:
By myself. By myself for about six months. Then, eventually, I was like, "Well, I'm out of money, so it's time to come home."
Kerry Diamond:
Is that when Italian food started to become your thing and capture your imagination?
Hillary Sterling:
It captured my heart and my soul, and it became something that I didn't know how much I loved until I got the opportunity to start cooking at Lupa. When I came back to New York in 2002 or '03, I was answering Craigslist ads to be a line cook and I had no New York City experience. I only had Montauk experience. A woman named Christine Sanchez at Mesa Grill called me back, and I had no idea what I was walking into. I didn't understand what southwestern food was. But I knew that the kitchen felt right, and I worked for Christine Sanchez and there and Bobby Flay. I learned so much about chilis and acid and heat and marriage of flavors and balance.
Kerry Diamond:
That was a real hotspot-
Hillary Sterling:
It was. It was like-
Kerry Diamond:
... in one moment in New York. Yeah.
Hillary Sterling:
It showed me what New York restaurants can be and the camaraderie of the front and the back, and the bar regular scene there was just like... These people were friends. In such a big city, it had a small town vibe on Fifth Avenue and 15th street. It was such a great job. I loved it dearly.
Kerry Diamond:
I feel like you have a memoir in you. You're very modest. But you worked for Batali, you worked for Bobby, you worked for Missy Robbins, you worked at the Beatrice Inn when Graydon Carter owned it. I mean, I feel like you probably got a lot of stories.
Hillary Sterling:
I do have some stories, but-
Kerry Diamond:
That you haven't told yet.
Hillary Sterling:
They might stay locked up.
Kerry Diamond:
That you're not going to be telling on Radio Cherry Bombe today.
Hillary Sterling:
No, no. I've definitely been asked. They're like, "Do you have any stories?" I'm like, "I do, but"-
Kerry Diamond:
They're in the Hillary vault for now.
Hillary Sterling:
They should stay there because it was different back then.
Kerry Diamond:
It was very different. Yeah. I mean, that's one of my questions. The restaurant industry has changed so much since you started out. What is your advice for young people wondering if this is even the right place for them today?
Hillary Sterling:
I think the restaurant industry has evolved in great ways. Yeah, sometimes, every once in a while, you miss those old days of there's a beer on the line or the camaraderie of... I remember there was a moment there in a kitchen I worked in I won't mention that they brought in... There was shots in the middle of service, and you're just like, "I can't do that. What am I going to do now?" But there was a different feeling. It was this rawness to kitchens, because we all still didn't know what we were doing. We were still finding our way. We knew we loved food and cooking and the act and the art. Now, things are-
Kerry Diamond:
But there was a lot of bullshit, too, back then.
Hillary Sterling:
100%.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah.
Hillary Sterling:
And you definitely had moments. I think I've become a better manager because of learning how to manage other people and other cultures. I became a sous chef pretty early on, and I had to manage a team that they probably were better cooks than I were at the time. For cooks now, I think the end all, be all is to learn and to ask questions and to show up early. That is one thing that is definitely overlooked. Be ready on time. I learned the hard way one time. Just because your schedule says 3:00, you are dressed and ready at 2:45 waiting to punch in. I mean, I learned that at 14 working in the Blue Marlin.
Kerry Diamond:
I could never be a chef.
Hillary Sterling:
Be ready and taste your food. Cooks that don't like to eat, it's a really hard world for you out there.
Kerry Diamond:
You know what I realize I don't do is I don't smell the ingredients, and I bet I'm not alone in that. I've been making smoothies all since January 1st, new year, new me.
Hillary Sterling:
Of course, right?
Kerry Diamond:
We had a really fun guest a few weeks ago, Liz Moody, and she's the smoothie queen, and I've been following some of her recipes. She puts a lot in her smoothies, and I was using vanilla extract and peppermint extract and herbs and turmeric and all these different things and pepper even. I realized, "Oh, I don't smell my ingredients," and I actually forced myself to stop and smell the parsley I was about to toss in there and smell the turmeric and everything and-
Hillary Sterling:
It's so important. Use your senses.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. Yeah.
Hillary Sterling:
Teaching cooks that right now is really... They want me to hand them a recipe book, and if anyone's ever worked with me before, they know that that's not going to happen. There is one for Ci Siamo, but since the day I wrote it and since now, it's drastically different. Cooks are like, "I need a recipe." You're like, "I'm going to teach you a recipe, and you're going to taste it, and we're going to learn from it," right? The serrano sauce we had yesterday, that changes dramatically if we're not careful. Those serranos can go from delicious and floral and hint of spice to blow you away and kill your palate.
So cooks need to learn how to taste, smell, touch, and listen. There's a lot about listening, especially from a big kitchen, right? I have to listen to what they're doing. You're listening to them tossing pans or putting a fish in a pan. You're listening for clues to make sure they're doing the right thing. I think that's really important, to stop and take a second sometimes. I have told cooks to close their eyes and smell and listen and get rid of one sense to heighten the other ones. Hopefully, they'll remember that moment and actually do that.
Kerry Diamond:
That's exciting when that happens. We had tested the Cherry Bombe Cookbook ourselves, which I don't necessarily recommend, but that's the way it worked out, and I remember a distinct moment in the midst of the testing when, all of a sudden, I could tell when something was done. I could hear that it was done or I could smell that it was done.
Hillary Sterling:
It's so important.
Kerry Diamond:
You feel like you've really crossed into new territory.
Hillary Sterling:
We used to roll these porkettas. We used to cook these porkettas, and I'd walk in the front door, and I'd be like, "Guys, the porkettas are done. Why are they still cooking? I can smell it from upstairs. I know. I can smell that, the pork, the orange, the roasted garlic, it's all about to caramelize. We have to go." Yeah. I mean, I think taking yourself so out of the box sometimes and being okay with it... Anchovies tastes different. Capers tastes different. You just have to keep yourself on your toes and not accept that, "No, this is the recipe." That's one of my least favorite things to hear.
Kerry Diamond:
How do you take care of yourself off-duty?
Hillary Sterling:
Pre-Ci Siamo, definitely. Big into CrossFit. I just did my first... Well, it wasn't a triathlon because we weren't allowed to swim. But this July I did the bike and run, and hopefully doing that again this July. Big on a bike, love it. Running. I've actually really enjoyed running. I think the peace and the quiet and that just you... And I love New York, to explore New York that way.
Kerry Diamond:
And how is your wife?
Hillary Sterling:
My wife is wonderful.
Kerry Diamond:
We covered, for folks who don't know... What issue was that? I need to reach behind me. We covered Tess and Hillary's wedding in... What was that, issue 15? So if you have that, Paola Volez is on the cover, open the back page and you can see some fun photos and your fabulous hashtag-
Hillary Sterling:
Mm-hmm. Cheese marries pasta.
Kerry Diamond:
Cheese marries pasta.
Hillary Sterling:
It just makes sense.
Kerry Diamond:
That's the best wedding hashtag ever. It's a short story, but you have to read it because the... I mean, we had some menu highlights, and it just sounded like the best wedding ever.
Hillary Sterling:
It was a great day. We got blessed by amazing weather and had such a team to execute our vision. I got to cook a lot of it with them pre-wedding, obviously.
Kerry Diamond:
I was going to ask-
Hillary Sterling:
I didn't do it that day.
Kerry Diamond:
Because you wore white, didn't you?
Hillary Sterling:
I did. I definitely was like-
Kerry Diamond:
I was like, "I didn't see pictures of you cooking in your wedding whites."
Hillary Sterling:
There was a moment where someone called me downstairs. We got married at this place called the Treman Center, and it was just an old dairy barn.
Kerry Diamond:
Where is it?
Hillary Sterling:
In Ithaca, New York. And they were like, "Is this okay," and I was like, "Yes, that's fine. Thank you. Okay. I'm going to go now."
Kerry Diamond:
"I'm going to go back to my wedding." Does Tess still work in the cheese industry?
Hillary Sterling:
She's the head of cheese and salumi for Eataly North America. So she's-
Kerry Diamond:
That's a big job.
Hillary Sterling:
Yeah. She's the one that picks all the products in those cheese cases across the United States and Canada.
Kerry Diamond:
How much cheese is in your fridge at home?
Hillary Sterling:
There's definitely a lot. There's more than we actually could consume in any way, shape, or form. Our house is filled with lots of cheese, lots of cured meat, and lots of tinned fish.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Okay. Just because you two like tinned fish?
Hillary Sterling:
Well, yes, and there's always samples and there's-
Kerry Diamond:
Right. Right.
Hillary Sterling:
So we are slightly obsessed with these sardines and anchovies right now. I might bring home some focaccia from Ci Siamo and eat a little bread and anchovies for dinner.
Kerry Diamond:
My fridge is filled with smoothie ingredients, food from our new sponsor Territory Foods, and lots of Kerrygold butter and cheese. They are a very generous sponsor also and always keep me-
Hillary Sterling:
Nothing wrong with that.
Kerry Diamond:
... stocked up with that, yeah, which is fun every time I open my fridge. Okay. Let's do a speed round because-
Hillary Sterling:
Can't wait.
Kerry Diamond:
... you got a big job. You got to get back to work. Coffee or tea?
Hillary Sterling:
Coffee.
Kerry Diamond:
How do you take it?
Hillary Sterling:
In the morning, espresso. In the afternoon, cortado.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite kitchen tool?
Hillary Sterling:
My Unicorn black pepper mill.
Kerry Diamond:
Is Unicorn the brand?
Hillary Sterling:
Mm-hmm.
Kerry Diamond:
What makes it special? I'd never heard of that
Hillary Sterling:
It's just the grind, and that's what makes the rigatoni so special.
Kerry Diamond:
Ooh. Okay. Apron of choice?
Hillary Sterling:
Somewhere between dark blue or I have an old apron from Shed out in Northern California that I love dearly.
Kerry Diamond:
The brand's called Shed?
Hillary Sterling:
It was from a store called Shed, and it's their aprons. It's these denim aprons. It's just so soft.
Kerry Diamond:
Nice. Kitchen footwear of choice?
Hillary Sterling:
Clogs. I'm too short, so I need the height.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you have a brand you like?
Hillary Sterling:
The Danskos are fine.
Kerry Diamond:
Any color?
Hillary Sterling:
Black always.
Kerry Diamond:
Black, okay. Not white like the guys at Frenchette?
Hillary Sterling:
No. Sometimes, I have white kitchen sneakers that I only wear during the day.
Kerry Diamond:
I admire anyone who wears white shoes. Yeah. Song that makes you smile?
Hillary Sterling:
It's one of our wedding songs, actually, Lord Huron, End of the Earth.
Kerry Diamond:
Treasured cookbook? I bet you have a lot.
Hillary Sterling:
I do. This is a tough one. I have three old books from the Good Cookbook from the '70s of terrines and pates, shellfish, and meat, and they're ones I actually go back to frequently.
Kerry Diamond:
Love it. Last pantry purchase at home?
Hillary Sterling:
Ah, I have no idea. I had to text Tess, and she didn't know either. It was probably some version of hot sauce, chili crisps, or some anchovy.
Kerry Diamond:
I figured that would be a tough one for you given how much time you're in the restaurant right now. Dream travel destination?
Hillary Sterling:
How about we'll go my next? I'd like to go back to Puglia and be inspired by simplicity again.
Kerry Diamond:
Best advice you have given or received? That shouldn't be a speed round question-
Hillary Sterling:
No, that's a-
Kerry Diamond:
... but it's in there anyway.
Hillary Sterling:
I think I'll go back to this. Be one with the pork. I know it sounds crazy, but I needed to find the connection with something that was giving me a hard time learning how to cook something and seeing what the actual pork or whatever it may be... It goes back to our senses conversation. Sometimes the pork shines, and sometimes it doesn't, and there's a moment when it's ready. Allow it to speak to you.
Kerry Diamond:
Be one with the pork. Last question. If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, and you can't say your wife, who would it be and why?
Hillary Sterling:
I think it'd be a toss-up or I'd have both with Marcella Hazan and Diana Kennedy, two women that introduced us here in the United States to cuisines that we just needed to know more about.
Kerry Diamond:
Diana is a firecracker.
Hillary Sterling:
I've had the pleasure to cook for her once before, and it was such an honor.
Kerry Diamond:
She came to one of our Cherry Bombe Jubilee conferences once in leather pants, and I was like, "You rock those leather pants."
Hillary Sterling:
Amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. She's amazing. Thank you so much for your time, Hillary. It was great seeing you last night. I had an awesome meal, and it was fun talking to you about your life and career.
Hillary Sterling:
Thank you so much, Kerry. Thank you for having me.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you so much to Chef Hillary Sterling for joining us. If you find yourself in New York City, be sure to check out Ci Siamo and tell Chef Hillary that Cherry Bombe sent you. Thank you to Territory Foods for supporting our show. Stop by territoryfoods.com to learn more. Don't forget to use the code cherry75 when placing your order. And if you have a moment, I would love for you to rate and review our show. Let me know who you'd like to hear on a future episode. Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of Cherry Bombe Magazine, our theme song is by the band Tra La La. Thank you to Hasan Moore, studio engineer for Newsstand Studios, and thank you to assistant producer, Jenna Sadhu, and thanks to you for listening. You are the bombe.