Jamila Norman:
My job let me go, and it was like the happiest day of my life. I really was trying to figure out how to get out and I just didn't have the guts to do it.
Kerry Diamond:
Hi everyone, you're listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond. Coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. Today's guest is Jamila Norman, a.k.a Farmer J. Jamila is the forest behind Patchwork City Farms in Atlanta, and she's the star of a brand new show from the Magnolia Network. It's called Homegrown, and it's all about helping families transform their outdoor spaces and grow their own food.
The first few episodes are live right now and they are terrific. Whether you're a farmer, a farmers market enthusiast, or maybe you're just really good at killing your houseplants, regardless, you're going to love Jamila. Before we get to Jamila, what is going on at Cherry Bombe HQ, you ask? Well, we just announced that early bird tickets are on sale for our Jubilee Conference. Jubilee is the largest gathering of women in the food and beverage space in the US. It's taking place April 2nd and 3rd, 2022, in Brooklyn, and you don't want to miss it.
The Cherry Bombe Jubilee conference is a great place to network, make new friends, try some terrific food, and hear some really insightful talks and panels. Past speakers have included Nigella, Ina, Martha, Madhur, Dorie, Padma, Mashama, Samin, Joy, so many incredible people. If you'd like to join us next year, head over to cherrybombe.com right now, and snag your tickets. Today's show is presented by Free People. I love free people. In fact, they have a gorgeous store at Rockefeller Center right around the corner from where we are recording Radio Cherry Bombe right this very second.
Anyway, we just kicked off our Summer Supper club with Free People, and you are all invited. Visit cherrybombe.com for two recipes from food stylist, Mariana Velasquez, that will help you beat the heat. A sparkling watermelon cooler, which I love because you don't need a juicer, just a potato masher, and I do not have a juicer, but I do have a potato masher, so I am ready. And a gorgeous hearts of Palm Ceviche. Do not turn on that oven. While you're on our site, you can also watch Mariana's cooking demo with all her tips and tricks and shop her Free People looks. We love the intersection of food and fashion here at Cherry Bombe, so don't miss this colab. There's more to come in the weeks ahead. Thank you so much to Free People. Now let's check in with Farmer Jay.
Kerry Diamond:
Jamila Norman, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Jamila Norman:
Thank you. Thank you for having me. Glad to be here.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm so glad you're here. We have so much to talk about. I haven't seen you in almost four years.
Jamila Norman:
I know. Who knew we'd be back together again in this way?
Kerry Diamond:
And you'd be a TV star.
Jamila Norman:
No idea that was on the horizon, so it's pretty easy.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm not super surprised. You were a superstar back then. But we were in Atlanta, the Cherry Bombe Cookbook had just launched and we were doing an event down there, and it was so nice to meet you and so many of the other people on the Atlanta scene, and I'm super excited to welcome you to my town, New York.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah. Absolutely. No, it was great, because I mean, I think that all happened. You just kind of did a call out to social media, like who should I connect with in Atlanta? Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
I did not know a lot of people in Atlanta, but I felt like I left with a hundred new friends.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah, absolutely.
Kerry Diamond:
That's the nice thing about Cherry Bombe. Well, you are here because of your new show, Homegrown, and I have to say, congratulations.
Jamila Norman:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Amazing. I watched the first episode and it was so good. I was like, my first thought was, how can I have a garden in my apartment?
Jamila Norman:
Right. I know. I mean, well, that's the idea. We want to encourage, and we want to inspire people to think about different spaces where they can grow, and just to know that it's not that hard, and to just get into it and get started.
Kerry Diamond:
What is the show all about?
Jamila Norman:
Yeah. The show is all about just meeting homeowners and just really helping them realize their dreams of wanting to have a farm, wanting to grow food for their families, wanting to utilize the space that they have and transform it into something that is beautiful, something that is functional and a place that they can gather and enjoy.
Kerry Diamond:
I watched the first episode, and I don't want to give anything away, but you made miracles happen in that family's backyard.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah. I mean, that's the idea. We definitely look for people who need help. We're looking for backyards where the transformation is going to be amazing. I'm wowed by the end of it, because you have an idea and you have a vision, and then the whole team gets together and it happens and it's pretty amazing at the end.
Kerry Diamond:
They were so lucky. Not only did you come in and do all these cosmetic things, I won't say what special things they got in their backyard, I want everyone to go watch Jamila's new show, but you did it with such intention. I think one of the things we can talk about without giving away too much is the mother of the family is Filipino and doesn't have a lot of connections to the Filipino community where she is, and you went out and found this amazing female Filipino farmer.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah. Whenever I talk to a family, I sit with them, I'm trying to find out, what is it that they are trying to recreate? Because usually people have memories that they're wanting for their kids. She shared with me that she didn't have that much connection with the Filipino community in Atlanta, and I've been farming in Atlanta now, 11 years, so I know a lot of the farmers in and around Atlanta. With all the things that she wanted, I was like, I have the perfect person to connect you with. We always, in every show, connect the family to somebody in the real world, either a farmer or a expert around something that it is that they are looking for in their space. So, it's an opportunity to extend beyond, connect to the community, and just learn and explore and see.
Kerry Diamond:
The mother said something so beautiful too, that partially, she wanted this because she wanted her children to learn patience.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah, definitely. I think we're all just sort of like busy go, go, go. She works in corporate job, her husband, he works in a pretty corporate environment. You've got people watching your kids and you're just all over the place. When you are in a garden, you have to like slow down and focus and pay attention and connect and be present. I think that's what the beauty is of gardening and farming. You just have to be present. You can't rush nature, you got to work with it, and you have to be patient to receive the fruits of your labor as well in the garden.
Kerry Diamond:
Not only patient and present, but you have to plan and you have to have a lot of optimism about the future.
Jamila Norman:
You absolutely do. You definitely have to plan, you have to have some foresight, because some things only take a month to provide fruit. Some things take years, like fruit trees and things, they take years before you actually get a fruit. Yeah, you definitely have to have a vision for the future and a belief in the future, and that what you put in the ground now will bear fruit when you're expecting it.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, it's so good. You mentioned the mom on the show had a corporate background. So did you.
Jamila Norman:
I did.
Kerry Diamond:
Everybody knows you now as Farmer J, so they might not know Farmer J had a very different job a decade ago.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah, Farmer J was engineer J. Engineer Jamila with the State of Georgia. Yeah, I went to University of Georgia. I did environmental engineering degree and I worked in Waterways water, inspected industries all over the State of Georgia, making sure they're not polluting our rivers and streams.
Kerry Diamond:
That's an important job.
Jamila Norman:
And I was on the enforcement side, so they never liked when I showed up. I'm just coming to see what's going on in the factory. That was definitely really cool to just kind of see how the environment gets impacted. But in that job, in that role, I also got to see the communities that were negatively impacted by pollution and things. It was constantly poorer immigrant African-American communities. Part of my move to farming was looking for a simple solution to a problem that kind of presents itself as very complex.
Jamila Norman:
I'm like, okay, green spaces in cities right now, Atlanta has tons of just unused green space. They're just there, it's a place of blight. It's all kinds of stuff, but I'm like, I can grow food, so that can address some of the health disparities, that can create some fresh food options in my community, but also, is transformation of a green space into something functional, something useful, something that is alive and vibrant and helping to clean the air and better use of water. It just presented itself as a simple, more direct solution than what I was doing on the government level that I felt was getting me nowhere.
Kerry Diamond:
The idea didn't come from nowhere. You have farmers in your family.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah. I mean, my great grandparents on both sides, Jamaica and Trinidad, were farmers. So, there was definitely a generational sort of like gap, right? People are immigrating to the US, or my grandmother immigrated to ... She went over to England first to study midwifery, then she came to New York. My mother was raised in Jamaica with her, grandmother, and then moved to New York as well, and so I was actually born and raised in New York and Queens.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, wait, I did all this research. I didn't know about that.
Jamila Norman:
Didn't even know that, I know.
Kerry Diamond:
You're a New Yorker?
Jamila Norman:
I'm a native New Yorker. We moved to Atlanta when I was about 12, 13. Atlanta is a city, it's a sprawling city, so there's so much green space.
Kerry Diamond:
It's so sprawling. That was my biggest takeaway when I was in Atlanta, and I think that was my first visit to Atlanta. It's like urban and then trees. Urban and then trees.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah. It's called a city in a forest, and it's urban, it's trees, but there's still a lot of the rural infrastructure that's still all intertwined within the city. The city regulations still allow for ... I mean, you can have chickens, you can have goats, you can ride horses down the street, you can have horses. I've seen people come up to city hall, tie their horses up, go in and get their permit right off on their horses. There's all of this infrastructure that still allows for farming and gardening and all of that.
Jamila Norman:
So, having a farm in the city was not ... People are like, how did you do it? Was it like some magic, special thing? I'm like, you could do it in Atlanta.
Kerry Diamond:
I want to go back to how you made the leap because we have a lot of career changers, and now, especially, so many people want to change what they're doing. What was that aha moment where you're like, I can quit, I can walk away from this job and I can start this new thing that I want to do.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah, so the overlap for me with working for the state and doing the farm was like four years. I was doing both. I was like engineer during the day, and then on the weekends, break, all kinds of stuff. Whatever time I had, I was on the farm, going to market, doing everything, raising kids. I don't even know where I had the energy for all of that.
Kerry Diamond:
Right. You are a mom of three. We need to tell everybody that.
Jamila Norman:
Yes. I'm a mom of three boys. They're 21, 19 and 17 now. What really happened was my job let me go. They were downsizing, and it was the happiest day of my life because I really was trying to figure out how to get out and I just didn't have the guts to do it, because you're like, oh, this is like a steady job. It's an engineering job with the city, I mean with the state, so it's a good paying job, and they were downsizing and they let me go. It's all funny, because that day, when I was in the office and HR was giving me the news, and they were like, "You're taking this really well."
The crazy thing is the state escorts everybody out with security. And I'm just like chipper, just hopping down the lane with the security guard and we're just chatting it up. And he was like, "You're really happy about this." I was like, "I've been talking about leaving this place for two years."
Kerry Diamond:
Sometimes you need a push.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah, I needed the push, and I have never looked back.
Kerry Diamond:
So, Patchwork was the business you had started. That was the overlap.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us about the name Patchwork and what it's all about it. I think that name is so beautifully reflective of your city and what you're doing.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah. Patchwork City Farms, I was really intentional when I thought about the name. I was like, I have a farm and I want people to understand that it's in the city. I didn't want to use urban, because I think when people think urban, they think blade, more negative connotation. When you think city, it's a little bit more innovation, it's excitement, it's energy. So, I was like city farm, and I chose the name Patchwork because at the time I was thinking like empty residential lots, and I'll just have multiple patches of farm space in the city that I'm cultivating. So, I was like, aha, Patchwork City Farms, that's the name of the farm, and that's the vision.
Kerry Diamond:
So beautiful. Just to be clear, so this is not a community garden because I think a lot of people here farming in the city and they automatically go to community garden.
Jamila Norman:
Absolutely. Yeah. I get that all the time. I mean, I think people don't get the concept of like a work in farm in a city environment. If they see anything related to agriculture, they're like, oh, it's a community garden or it's a charitable organization growing food to give away. We always have to be like, no, we're farmers. And also, I think, I'm black, I'm female, people have literally been like, no, no, no, this is not your farm, right? I'm like, no, this is my farm business. Their minds just cannot ... They look at me dumbfounded, like you're doing this on purpose?
Kerry Diamond:
That's kind of insulting. Who do they think owns the farm?
Jamila Norman:
Beyond insulting. But I just have patience with people because ...
Kerry Diamond:
Because you're a good person.
Jamila Norman:
People don't know the average farmer is white male, and so when you're black female, and I look super young, they're just like, huh, I always have to have that conversation, even now still. It's okay.
Kerry Diamond:
You've talked about representation in other interviews, and that previously you would go to events and things, and you would be, probably the only black or brown farmer there, and you'd be the only woman farmer there. Has that changed?
Jamila Norman:
Yeah. That was definitely the situation for, I'll say maybe five, six years of farming. It has definitely changed. Atlanta, back when I started, it was like 2009, 2010, I could count the number of farms in the city on one hand. Now they're like over 30. Then when you think about Metro Atlanta, which is a bigger region, but all feeding into Atlanta, so many more people that have entered the farming, an urban farming scene. And yeah, there's a lot more women, a lot more people of color.
I think it's not so much that they weren't there. I just don't think that they felt like they had a place in some of the spaces that farmers were showing up in the local food movement in Atlanta. I would say we kind of opened the door a little bit by just ... Cece, my former business partner, there's not a question she won't ask anybody, there's not a door ... She's a preacher's daughter, and so she's like, is there an opportunity over here? We're going in and we're asking for it. So, we were really good in that way, really great partners in that way. We went for whatever we saw. I just didn't feel like there was anything we shouldn't go for.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about 2014 because you had an amazing experience to go to Italy as part of a Slow Food program, and you met so many other farmers from around the world. Tell us about that experience.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah. We got nominated by the Slow Food Committee, actually in New York, to go to Tierra Madre, which happens every two years in Turin, Italy, to represent the US. It's like the Olympics of food.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my gosh, I'm so jealous.
Jamila Norman:
Oh my God, it was so amazing. We took the opportunity, we went, and I mean, it was just eye opening, life changing just to see so many farmers from all over the world. I mean, we go there and they're in a huge stadium and everybody's got to wear translators because I don't know how many languages are being spoken. That was really cool to just see what farming looks like outside of the US, because it is very diverse. Some of the things that I learned in that experience was that most farm work around the world is done by women, and that most of the food that we consume, it's grown by small farmers.
I think the narrative of farming is definitely co-opted by, I don't know, big ag. The real work is done on a smaller scale and lot of women in the industry.
Kerry Diamond:
What was it like being in Italy?
Jamila Norman:
Oh my God, it was amazing. The food was amazing. Everything was so fresh. It was just beautiful, and I'm like, golly, I'm staying in the building older than my country. It was insane. It was mind blowing, and it was exhausting because it was non-stop. We were there for a week for the conference. As soon as I came back, I was like, oh, I want to go again. I was like, I need to go back. It was so much. I mean, it was literally, I think they have like a hundred thousand people that show up for that food ... I mean, it was insane.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's now jump back to present time in last year, very tough, very sad year for so many. The thing that got all the press was everybody baking bread, but I'm wondering, did you see a lot of people start to grow their own food?
Jamila Norman:
Oh my God, so many people wanted to grow their ... So much so that the seed companies and the suppliers that we as farmers use for operate, they were so backed up. They had to shut off sales to just retail consumer, just like homeowners, and they were like, we can only service our commercial customers because so many people wanted to grow food. So many people wanted gardens. It's almost just like serendipitous that this idea for a show about helping people start their own gardens happened at a time where literally, the world was like, oh my God, we got to grow our own food.
Because I think, with the pandemic, so much of it was like your health and wellness and people who have compromised immune systems, so everybody was like, how can I get the best food, the freshest food? I can either grow it. So, so many more people came to farmer's markets. I mean, it was like ... There was a huge spotlight on local food in Atlanta and growing your own food. The industry just really got a big bump of people that were interested.
Kerry Diamond:
What kind of advice were people reaching out to you for?
Jamila Norman:
Oh my God, Farmer J, I have land, what do I do with it? Oh my goodness, my family's got 200 acres in South Georgia. I mean, people were calling me just constant. This is before even the show and any of this. They're just like, can you come out to my house and show me how to do this? Can I come to the farm and just learn with you? Just any and everything from all over people were asking. Like I said, there was just shortages of seeds, of supplies, of just all kinds of stuff. But I was like, this is exciting, we have a moment and we need to capture it and we don't know how long this is going to last, and how can I teach the most people?
Kerry Diamond:
Bingo.
Jamila Norman:
Exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
You've got a TV show.
Jamila Norman:
And then this opportunity came, and I was like, what? Look at the universe.
Kerry Diamond:
Perfect.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah. I was like, this is a platform for how I can share with a lot of people at one time, so that was the main reason for me saying yes to like, okay, I'm going to check this out.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us how the show came about.
Jamila Norman:
Somebody sent me an email. Yeah. The show came about, it was the end of the growing year, and I think in February I got an email from a local production company in Atlanta, and she was like, hey, would you be interested in coming into our office to talk about this idea that I have for the show for this new network that's ... I was like, okay. I say, everything is timing because there was a company that actually reached out to me from California, maybe like in November, and that's like right at the end of the farm and season. My mind was like, I can't, and I was trying to leave the country.
I kind of ghosted them. Then this opportunity came, this other email in February, and she's like, I'm local production company from Atlanta women led blah, blah, blah. Googled them, they were like 15 minutes from my house in Southwest Atlanta. It was real chill. It was just like, I want to come in and have a conversation. That's the time of the year where the farm is not busy. It's February, I'm doing a lot of planning, ordering. So, I was like, all right. So, went to the office, asked a few questions.
She was like, do you mind if I record this video? And she had already presented me with like a whole package. I had scoured the internet. I found everything about you, Jamila. I have a proposal already set up, and we did a quick little video. They attached it and sent it off, and that's how we got a show.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. That's so cool.
Jamila Norman:
Isn't that crazy.
Kerry Diamond:
Now you're part of this amazing network.
Jamila Norman:
And now I'm part of this amazing network.
Kerry Diamond:
Erin French has a show, Zoë François, who a lot of our listeners know as ZoëBakes. What a great lineup.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah. An amazing lineup. One of the farmers that I follow, Floret, Erin Benzakein. I mean, I've been fan girling her for like forever, and she announced that she had a show, and this is before I even got an email, and I was like, oh my God, this is so amazing. Then a year later, I'm sending her a message like, we're going to be like partners on the same network. We were like, can you believe it, two farmers shows on a network, who would have thought? It's been amazing watching the journey.
Kerry Diamond:
And it's so beautifully shot. I really can't recommend Homegrown enough to the listeners. There might be some of you out there who are like, ugh, food TV, I think food TV got a bad rap over the years for a good reason, but I find all the Magnolia shows, they're just really shot beautifully. And you feel like you're going on a journey with the host.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah. I think that's the intention behind the show is peeking into an opportunity or an experience that a family is having with trying to do this thing. They're trying to grow food for their family. Some people it started, some people, it's just an idea. We want it to be beautiful, we want it to be inspirational. We want people to walk away with like, oh God, it's possible, some possibility. That was definitely the overarching theme of, what we're doing is a window into an experience and a process and not instructional or anything like that, which the Magnolia Network app has the instructional stuff with all the workshops and things. So, we do a deep dive on workshops, but with the shows, it's like watching something beautiful unfold, a garden.
Kerry Diamond:
Absolutely, and they don't make you be silly, but I just don't like the shows where people have to be forced.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah, no. I think what is really beautiful is like, Chip and Jo really look for people, and they just want you to be like your authentic self. Folks are like, oh my God, Jamila, you're a natural. I was like, I'm being me.
Kerry Diamond:
Chip and Joe Gaines, the founders of the Magnolia Network. I love that's what you call them now.
Jamila Norman:
I know, right? Chip and Jo. Yeah. They are like, we just want to find people that are doing amazing things that have passion behind what they're doing and just like be yourself. That's great. Yeah, people are like, "Jamila, you're such a natural," and I'm like, well, I'm being myself and I'm talking about something that I love and I've been doing for a really long time, so it's easy.
Kerry Diamond:
Now, this show airs July. Anyone who goes to a Farmer's Market who is listening knows that this is an unbelievable time for farmers. Everything is growing right now, it seems. What are you growing right now and what are you just absolutely loving?
Jamila Norman:
Oh my God, what am I not growing right now? It's summertime, so you're getting all the tomatoes and eggplants and zucchini and squash and cucumbers. Georgia has a long growing season. It actually doesn't really stop. We've got greens and lettuces, and arugula, and tons and tons of herbs. I've really just fallen in love more and more every year with herbs, so I grow tons and tons of herbs. I'm going to be coming out with tea line soon. I love root crops, I love digging potatoes, I love pulling carrots, I love pulling beets.
I mean, I feel like it's just so fun and it's always like magic. I mean, 10 years into it, 11 years into it and I'm still excited when I pull a carrot, like I didn't know the carrot was going to grow. Oh my God.
Kerry Diamond:
I saw something, you were so excited about a potato. You were like, they're like little jewels in the ground. I'm like, wow, she's a hardcore farmer if she's still loving potatoes all these years later.
Jamila Norman:
I do love potatoes. When you grow red potatoes and gold potatoes, and there are like purple ... I mean, there's so many varieties of everything. Every time I plant something, I swear, I'm like, I hope it grows, like I'm not doing the right thing. Then it happens, and I'm like, look at me. It's magic all over again every time, which is, I think why I love farming and why I love the process because I feel like I get that instant feedback, and then I go to market and then people are like super excited.
Kerry Diamond:
Now, are you still at a Farmer's Market every week?
Jamila Norman:
I am still at a Farmer's Market every week. Yeah, so we do two Farmer's Market, on Saturday in Atlanta, and restaurants. I mean still operating a farm right now. I have a great team, so I'm able to get away. Took a while to get there, but oh my God, I'm in a good place right now with the farm. Yeah, we're still at a Farmer's Market every week. So, if you're in Atlanta, come buy our veggies.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm with you on the herb thing. I mean, I told you I lived in a small apartment in Brooklyn with a window sill, and I did just kill a mint plant that I bought from the Farmer's Market. And I was so embarrassed because I do have a green thumb. I have a lot of plants in my apartment, and the plant I think died in like four days.
Jamila Norman:
Oh, wow. Did you take it out of the pot and put it in a bigger pot?
Kerry Diamond:
No.
Jamila Norman:
No. Yeah, it probably just needed to transplant into something.
Kerry Diamond:
And the guy told me not to over-water it. So, I was like, oh, and then it literally shriveled up overnight.
Jamila Norman:
Really?
Kerry Diamond:
I don't know what I did wrong. I'm going to try again.
Jamila Norman:
Try again. I mean, mint is one of those things that I'm generally like ...
Kerry Diamond:
That's what I thought.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Yeah, I'll try again and I'll report back. If I could have anything, I would have a little herb garden because I just love herbs so much. It's so magical to think of someone being able to go out in their backyard and just snips some herbs.
Jamila Norman:
Snips some herbs. Yeah. I think, for especially people, see dwellers or you have a tiny apartment, just yeah, herbs, because you can fit a lot of different herbs in a small space. When you're using herbs, you don't need pounds of it. You just need a little bit here, a little bit there, so you can definitely do just a nice small herb garden with just a variety of things.
Kerry Diamond:
I would love to talk through some things that you cook at home or don't cook. Maybe you eat a lot of raw things like salads and things like that. This time of year, what's sort of a signature Jamila dish?
Jamila Norman:
Oh no, this time of the year, it's a lot of salads and smoothies because it is super hot in Atlanta. I've been on the farm all day and I come home and I just want cold, refreshing things. Watermelon is always amazing with basil or with mint, or, I mean just about anything.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you a vegetarian?
Jamila Norman:
I am a pescatarian. I'm pretty much vegetarian 80% of the time. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you throw cheese in the watermelon salad, like any feta?.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah, I'll do feta. Yeah, or if I do a basil, I'll do sev.
Kerry Diamond:
Nice.
Jamila Norman:
If I do with mint, I'll do feta. The other thing that is really, oh my God, there's this peach company in Atlanta that is, I mean, in Georgia that comes to market, her peaches are so good. So, I do a peach caprese instead of ... Oh my God, peaches, basil, fresh mozzarella. Oh goodness gracious, it's so, so, so good.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you have a signature salad dressing?
Jamila Norman:
Basic lemon juice, olive oil, salt and pepper. Maybe a little bit of a dijon mustard. Just a basic vinaigrette.
Kerry Diamond:
Because you've got such fresh, beautiful, produce. It sounds like you don't even need to do that much to it.
Jamila Norman:
You don't need to do that. Now, when kale comes in really heavy, everybody's like, Jamila, I need a kale salad. I make a really good kale salad, but it's like this ... It's the dressing. [inaudible 00:29:45], garlic, little bit of honey, a lot of lemon juice, and nutritional yeast. Oh my God. Then if I want to go smoky with it, I'll do a smoked paprika or if I want to go a little spicy with it, I'll do like some cumin. I mean ...
Kerry Diamond:
I love it. Do you have it written down?
Jamila Norman:
I don't. Who has recipes written down?
Kerry Diamond:
Just some people.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
You will have to when you have your cookbook.
Jamila Norman:
Oh, I will. I do have some things written down. I do have some, but that one, no, I just like ... Actually, I made it up on the farm when I was trying to have ... I would just like bring lemon juice olive oil, and I just put a bunch of stuff in a drawer, shook it up, put it on there, and it was just like, ooh, got something here.
Kerry Diamond:
That is the nice thing about vinaigrette, is like I don't follow recipes for them, because it really depends how many people you're feeding. Are you feeding yourself? Are you feeding like five people? Sometimes it's just a little olive oil and vinegar poured right over it can suffice.
Jamila Norman:
That's It. Smoked pepper, I mean, you don't have to get crazy with it and it's so good. Again, you got to have a good base, really good ingredients. Right now people are going crazy for the arugula market, because the arugula is so spicy. It's like, wow. The arugula you get at the store, I don't know what they ... It's like, where's the arugula kick?
Kerry Diamond:
It's the same as radishes. Radishes from the Farmer's Market are so spicy and beautiful, and the ones at the supermarket, they just don't taste like anything.
Jamila Norman:
I think maybe, either they're growing them indoors or ... My arugula gets the spiciest in the summer, and it's like, the sun is the most intense right at that time. I think, maybe it's a something, maybe they're just pumping it full of water. I don't know.
Kerry Diamond:
I've been on a burrata kick. Daisy, our TikTok intern this year, I think you had that salad. We did a peach, burrata, arugula, prosciutto, I'd leave out the prosciutto for you. Salad with a nice like shallot vinaigrette. Oh, It was so good.
Jamila Norman:
Yum. I love all things potato leek soup. I can eat all the time, any time.
Kerry Diamond:
We're probably making everyone so hungry with this conversation.
Jamila Norman:
I'm making myself hungry because all I had was a croissant and a coffee [crosstalk 00:31:53].
Kerry Diamond:
That's more than me. I think I had a sip of a green juice, and my green tea, which is still in my little container here. Before we get to the speed round, I do want to ask you about climate change. I mean, we can't be talking about farming and not talk about climate change. We have the devastating heat waves on the west coast, and just yesterday news about the flooding in Europe, so sad. What are you seeing in Atlanta?
Jamila Norman:
Yeah. I'm so glad you brought that up. I mean, since I've been farming, the seasons are just not predictable anymore. You cannot predict. Farmers, we look at like the first frost date and the last frost date, and they're pretty standard. We have, I don't know how many hundreds of years of data that like pretty much says Atlanta, it's around certain time, and that's all over the place. For me, one of the things that happened for me this year was I planted cucumbers and squash, they can't handle a freeze, put it all out.
This was like two weeks after what should have been our last frost, and then we had a late frost in April, like late April, and the whole crop was gone, so then I have to replant. But yeah, what I've seen over the years is just the seasons are just unpredictable. And when it rains, it rains a lot. So, you're just getting a lot of extremes in weather. It is raining in Atlanta like crazy right now, constant, constant, constant. Surprisingly enough, we're not getting the heat wave, because usually, by now, it's like 90s and above all the time.
We've been in the 80s, but it's just been raining a ton. Then when it's dry, it's really dry. So, we just go through like major drought and then super rainy, wet seasons way more than normal. One winter, there will be no winter, and then the next one it'll be like cold, cold, cold, cold, cold. Just a lot of unpredictability, which makes it hard for farming because you plan according to what you know the cycles are, and they're all over the place.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you and the other farmers talking about ... I mean, you must talk about it nonstop.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah, we do. What I've been seeing is farmers are having to invest in a lot more infrastructure. We're going to what they call controlled environment agriculture, where you're growing in high tunnels and hoop houses and things like that, which makes the cost of farming that much more expensive, because I mean, those structures are really, really, really expensive, and to try to like cover all of your fields, it's like now we have another barrier of entry into being able to like farm successfully, especially if you're a minority or first generation and all this stuff. That's what we're having to do to create some stability on our fields.
Kerry Diamond:
I would imagine it moves you further away from why you got into this in the first place.
Jamila Norman:
It really does, but I mean, we have to figure out how to keep producing food, even with the changes, and I think that, especially in the city of Atlanta, not letting every single piece of land in the city become ... Atlanta is experiencing a major boom right now. We're just making sure we're working with the city officials to be preserving green spaces in ways that can be ag or maintain parks or whatever so that every footprint in Atlanta doesn't become buildings and stuff, which contribute to the heat island effect and all this stuff. We just have to shift and figure out ways to innovate. Yeah, I mean, that's the challenge. I'm up for it. I love it.
Kerry Diamond:
And our elected officials have to do something about this.
Jamila Norman:
They do. They do. I mean, I think, on the government level, that's where the biggest change can happen. That's where we need to impress upon our elected leaders really ... Because they have the biggest impact. They make decisions for cities, for states, for the nation, so that's the level at which I feel like change can truly happen.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, they just announced sweeping changes in Europe and hopefully we will see that trickle over to our country next.
Jamila Norman:
God, we need more than a trickle. We need a watershed.
Kerry Diamond:
Yes, exactly. We need a lot.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. Let's do a little speed round so we can get you out of here. You are a busy lady right now.
Jamila Norman:
All right.
Kerry Diamond:
You've got a TV show. Okay. Coffee, tea, how do you take it?
Jamila Norman:
Ooh, coffee and tea. Coffee right now, oatmeal, no sugar, never. Tea, everything herbal, mate. Tea is life. Yeah, more than coffee definitely.
Kerry Diamond:
And I caught you said you are going to launch your own tea business.
Jamila Norman:
I am.
Kerry Diamond:
It's exciting.
Jamila Norman:
I know.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us when it happens, we'll be all over that.
Jamila Norman:
I most certainly will. I've been working on blends. I'm so excited about them.
Kerry Diamond:
Most used kitchen implement? Salad spinner.
Jamila Norman:
Knife and a cutting board.
Kerry Diamond:
Yep. Okay. Kitchen footwear.
Jamila Norman:
Barefoot.
Kerry Diamond:
What do you wear when you farm on your feet?
Jamila Norman:
Oh, all of the things. Oh my God. We have fire ants. I'm covered up from head to toe on the farm. Long socks, tall boots.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Got it. Do you listen to music while you farm?
Jamila Norman:
No. Yeah, no. It's very quiet and meditative on my farm.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Do you listen to music in the kitchen?
Jamila Norman:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
You're all about just being present-
Jamila Norman:
Yeah, I am. And then music comes on, and I'm like, why don't I put ... You know what I mean? Sometimes it's like I'll turn something on. I listen to music more like in the shower. I'm like, let me get a soundtrack going. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
What's the oldest thing in your fridge.
Jamila Norman:
Oh, boy. What's the oldest thing in my fridge? Something pickled, I know it.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you a big pickler?
Jamila Norman:
I don't pickle. I'm making cheese. Yeah, that's probably something Capers, or I don't know, something that's pickled O'Brieny.
Kerry Diamond:
Most treasured cookbook.
Jamila Norman:
Ooh.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you use cookbooks? Because you said earlier, like who needs recipes?
Jamila Norman:
I do. I do use cookbooks and I read cookbooks like people read novels. Ooh, most treasured cookbook. I love the African-American Kitchen. I love Hugh Acheson's first book, A New Turn in the South. Oh my God, it was beautiful. I've made a lot of stuff out of that, and I love Afro-Vegan by Bryant Terry.
Kerry Diamond:
Great book.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah, it is.
Kerry Diamond:
Last pantry purchase.
Jamila Norman:
Gnocchi.
Kerry Diamond:
And a dream travel destination.
Jamila Norman:
Morocco.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, Morocco's beautiful. Okay. Last question. If you were going to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Jamila Norman:
Ooh, food celebrity and who would it be and why? Oh my God. That's so tough. Marcus Samuelsson.
Kerry Diamond:
Why Marcus?
Jamila Norman:
I don't know. I just love him. I met him once in New York, the Food and Wine Fest long time ago, and then I went to his restaurant out in Harlem. So good, I love his energy. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
I would probably pick you because we'd never go hungry.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah, we surely wouldn't. I would definitely be growing some food.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh gosh. Well, it was so good to see you. You know we've been huge fans. We were so honored to put you on our Cherry Bombe 100 when we did that years ago.
Jamila Norman:
Yeah, I know.
Kerry Diamond:
It's just been really nice just watching you just do so many amazing things, and now I'm so happy that millions of people get to learn what's so special about you.
Jamila Norman:
Thank you so much. No, this has definitely just been, I couldn't have written this journey at all. I'm excited to have the opportunity to live it.
Kerry Diamond:
Wonderful. Well, thank you for your time Jamila.
Jamila Norman:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you so much to Jamila Norman from Patchwork City Farms. Make sure to check out her new show, Homegrown, from the Magnolia Network. I watched on Discovery Plus, in case you're wondering how to find the show. Let us know what you think. Thank you to Free People for supporting Radio Cherry Bombe. Check out our Summer Supper Club with Free People over on our website, cherrybombe.com, and while you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of Cherry Bombe Magazine. Our podcast is recorded at Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in New York City.
Thank you to Joseph Hazan, studio engineer of Newsstand Studios, and to our assistant producer, Jenna Sadhu. Thanks for listening, everybody. You're the bombe.
Harry from When Harry Met Sally:
I'll have what she's having.