Jess Murphy Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond. Coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine.
Today's guest is Chef Jess Murphy. Originally from New Zealand. Jess moved to Ireland in 2011 and opened the doors to Kai, the award-winning restaurant she runs with her husband Dave Murphy. Because of the sustainability programs at Kai, it's the only restaurant in Ireland to have been awarded the Michelin Green Star. Jess is also passionate about helping refugees in Ireland record their food stories, and she's been recognized for the work she does with the UNHRC, the UN Refugee Agency. Jess was in New York last week because she was this year's featured chef at the annual Kerrygold St. Patrick's Day luncheon. She made a beautiful meal for all of us, and of course there was a lot of Irish butter and cheese, plus oysters and lamb and ice cream and bread, lots of good stuff and we talk all about it. I loved getting to know Jess, so stay tuned for our chat.
This episode of Radio Cherry Bombe is supported by OpenTable. We are so excited that OpenTable is once again partnering with Cherry Bombe on our Sit With US Community Dinner series, which highlights amazing female chefs and restaurateurs in the Cherry Bombe and to OpenTable Networks. Thank you to everyone who joined us recently in Miami and Philly. For our next dinner, we'll be in Washington DC at chef Ria Montes' Estuary on Wednesday, March 27th. Tickets are sold out, but if you snagged one, I'll see you there.
Today's show is also presented by Johnnie Walker Blended Scotch Whiskey. Johnnie Walker is the world's number one scotch whiskey brand and has been responsible for lots of happy hours and convivial moments for more than 200 years. That tradition continues today in Edinburgh, where Dr. Emma Walker, Johnnie Walker's first female master Blender leads a passionate team of whiskey makers.
I've had the pleasure of interviewing Emma, and she is so dedicated to her craft. I know some of you love having a well-stocked liquor cabinet or bar cart at home. So two options to consider. First, Johnnie Walker Black Label, its nose, as Emma would say, features the bold scent of fruit with a touch of sweet vanilla. Your tongue will pick up creamy toffee, sweet fruit, and spice, followed by a warming smoky finish. If you want to experience the pinnacle in scotch making, there's Johnnie Walker Blue Label. Its nose features waves of spice that give way to vanilla and honey. You'll experience notes that build from caramel to hazelnut to dark chocolate, then a luxuriously long warming signature smoky finish. You can learn more about Johnnie Walker Blended Scotch Whiskey at johnnywalker.com. You'll find a deep dive into the brand's history and legacy, cocktail recipes, info on the Johnnie Walker Princess Street brand and tasting room experience in Edinburgh, adding that to my bucket list, and more. Of course, always drink responsibly.
Now let's check in with today's guest, chef Jess Murphy, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Jess Murphy:
Thank you. Thank you for having me, I'm so excited.
Kerry Diamond:
You are in town because of the annual Kerrygold luncheon, you're the featured chef this year, and I was very lucky to eat your food. You made a beautiful lunch.
Jess Murphy:
Well, it's easy to do when it's such a good ingredient. Guys at the restaurant sourced amazing ingredients. I didn't have to do too much to them.
Kerry Diamond:
How similar was that to what you make at Kai, your restaurant?
Jess Murphy:
It's super similar because, yeah, it's all kind of cultures all mixed up together. The motto is buy really good food, and don't do anything to it.
Kerry Diamond:
We had amazing oysters from Mermaid... What was the name again?
Jess Murphy:
Sorry, it was called Mermaid Makeout Point Oysters, and they're from Long Island and they were amazing. And then we had the chili pepper water.
Kerry Diamond:
And what's so funny, we know her, Kiki.
Jess Murphy:
Made by Kiki.
Kerry Diamond:
You talked her up, which was so nice. And I was like, I need to learn about this woman who has this condiment. And you came over and you gave me a bottle of it and I looked at it when I got home and I laughed. I was like, "Oh, it's Kiki. We love her."
Jess Murphy:
Oh, okay. That's great.
Kerry Diamond:
I'll share on Instagram, folks. So you can all go by Kiki's seasoning.
Jess Murphy:
Absolutely. Look out for it, because that and oysters, it just tastes like a really nice Clamato, a bougie Clamato, but with oysters.
Kerry Diamond:
And you had a little kimchi on top too, right?
Jess Murphy:
Well, the kimchi was on the potatoes.
Kerry Diamond:
What was on top of the oysters?
Jess Murphy:
Oh, that was torn pomelo? Yeah, torn pomelo segments.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, how funny. The texture with the spiced water-
Jess Murphy:
Tastes like kimchi.
Kerry Diamond:
... I totally thought it was kimchi, that's so interesting, okay.
Jess Murphy:
But it's such a nice combination with oysters-
Kerry Diamond:
It's beautiful.
Jess Murphy:
... Isn't it?
Kerry Diamond:
Mhm-hmm.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah. Who knew? It was great.
Kerry Diamond:
No, it was so good. It was funny, they put the bowls of the oysters on the table and the woman I was sitting next to said, "Oh, do you like oysters?" I was like, "Oh wait, the six oysters aren't just for me."
Jess Murphy:
That's how I would be.
Kerry Diamond:
We also had lamb. Oh, and the squash that was with the lamb.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah. Well, that was all just Japanese charcoal, so nice brown crispy.
Kerry Diamond:
That was so good. And there was some kind of like a Gremolata.
Jess Murphy:
So yeah, that was a Yemenis Zhug that I learned how to cook from some amazing Dublin Yemenis woman.
Kerry Diamond:
And then sticky toffee pudding, it was fantastic with some roasted pears.
Jess Murphy:
Roasted pears, and then it was like a burnt butter muscovado whiskey sauce.
Kerry Diamond:
And what was the ice cream?
Jess Murphy:
The ice cream was malted barley ice cream with deep-fried tofu skin that had been tossed in cardamon sugar.
Kerry Diamond:
And then we had that yummy butter in the beginning, what did you sprinkle on top of the Kerrygold butter?
Jess Murphy:
So the sourdough was really tart. I was like, "Right, this needs some seaweed." So I just ground up some combo and sprinkled it on top to just give it a bit of oomph.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you make the bread?
Jess Murphy:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, the bread was amazing.
Jess Murphy:
Actually, we'll just say yes. Yes, I did.
Kerry Diamond:
The bread was fantastic.
Jess Murphy:
The bread was fantastic.
Kerry Diamond:
And then of course, big plates of Kerrygold cheese at the end. You know what my... Well, I have two favorites. The reserve cheddar, love. And the blue cheese.
Jess Murphy:
The Cashel Blue. Oh, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Have you met those cheese makers?
Jess Murphy:
I met them... Strangely enough, I went to Delphi Lodge, fly-fishing for my wedding anniversary, and the people that owned Cashel Blue was there, Sarah's parents. So I was actually just hanging out with Sarah's parents and her uncle, and I was like, "No way." Because we were talking about, obviously, New Zealand sheep, we have a lot in common. And they were like, "Oh, we make Cashel Blue." Yeah, that was really sweet.
Kerry Diamond:
She's royalty. I got to tour where they make the cheese, and it was so much fun. I love blue cheese. Oh, and you had a great salad, with citrus in it.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, well, there's a lot of butter going around, so we needed those chicory, so that's why when I put it down I was like, "Token salad."
Kerry Diamond:
And it's pink lettuce season.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, it's chicory season and we're getting into chicory and nettles and all that kind of stuff. It's all the stuff that boots out all the toxins out of your liver and gets you ready for the new year. In Ireland, we serve a lot of nettles because of that exact reason.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, stinging nettle, I love it.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, but save all the water you blanch the nettles in because that's really good for drinking, or if you've got any kind of mild skin infections or dandruff, rinse it through your hair, it's really good for your hair.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, good to know. I'm at the lunch yesterday, sitting next to Samantha Barry, name-drop a little, the editor in chief of Glamour. She's fabulous and Irish. And you're talking and I said, "I don't recognize that Irish accent, where is she from?"
Jess Murphy:
Yes, it's my most mortifying trait.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you also Irish?
Jess Murphy:
So my husband's Irish.
Kerry Diamond:
You're not Irish at all?
Jess Murphy:
I'm an Irish citizen and I have an Irish passport. I'm actually English, Irish, Scottish, and Maori.
Kerry Diamond:
And you are from New Zealand.
Jess Murphy:
And I am from New Zealand.
Kerry Diamond:
That is the accent, it is not an Irish accent.
Jess Murphy:
The accent is 100% Flight Of The Conchords.
Kerry Diamond:
So anyway, as someone who is Irish, I was embarrassed that I failed to recognize that was not an Irish accent.
Jess Murphy:
25 years in Ireland, it's kind of starting to blend, I think.
Kerry Diamond:
So how did you wind up in Ireland?
Jess Murphy:
My husband's Irish. So my husband's from Carlow. I had been working in the UK and I'd been cooking away for years, and then I was like, "Oh, you know what? I really want to go to Ireland and learn how to cook since my husband's Irish." I was in New Zealand at the time, and I was like, "Oh, this is so ridiculous, a tin of anchovies costs $25. I need to get back to Europe, I feel like I'm not learning enough." So then I went and worked for Kevin Thornton who'd had two Michelin stars at the time in St. Stephen's Green, so I worked for him for two years. And then I saw the Tourism Island adverts, they were trying to relocate people to the west of Ireland, and I was like, "Where's that?" And I was like, "Can we go and live there?"
Kerry Diamond:
So wait, you literally saw an ad?
Jess Murphy:
Ad on TV.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow, and changed your life
Jess Murphy:
25 years later, changed my life, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my gosh. You go to Galway.
Jess Murphy:
Yes, go to Galway. And then I was the head chef of Ard Bia for maybe seven years with an amazing woman who's still one of my best mates to this day, her name's Aoibheann MacNamara. Then I was running two restaurants at the time, and I just left a two Michelin star restaurants. I was kind of like hitting peak burnout, you know when you're just not looking after yourself. All the creativity, the fire goes out. Then I was like, "I need to study something with food, but get paid for it, but also not have the pressure of writing six rotors with 35 people on it, need to get away from the responsibility of that." And then I got a job as a cheese monger for Sheridans Cheese, hence-
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, I've been to Sheridans Cheese in Dublin.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, they started off in Galway, and so now they're everywhere. But I'm really good friends with the Sheridans boys, I worked for them for five years and studied Irish raw milk with them and studied European charcuterie and Irish cheese and the importance of milk.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's so cool.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, so I just really dorked out over it.
Kerry Diamond:
So you're the real deal.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, they've kind of paid me to do it. But I've been to America milking as well, so I've been to Rogue River Creamery and everything like that. I've been going to Piemonte, they're Slow Food Raw Milk Festival for the last 20 years, so I'm a milk snob.
Kerry Diamond:
We'll be right back with today's guest. You all know this, but March is Women's History Month, and of course Cherry Bombe is celebrating. I want to give a special thank you to Walmart for supporting Radio Cherry Bombe throughout Women's History Month, and for Walmart's commitment to empowering women all year long. Walmart is a big supporter of female entrepreneurs and carries an incredible range of female founded and fueled brands. Brands like Siete Family Foods, Mexican American food brand by Veronica Garza, and as the name says, her family. Lume, the whole body deodorant line by Dr. Shannon Klingman. And The Honey Pot, plant derived feminine care products founded by Beatrice Dixon. Check out these brands and more of our female fueled favorites over at walmart.com/celebrateher. You can find that link in our show notes. For this episode we are spotlighting Marcella Hazan, celebrated cookbook author who helped Americans understand Italian food.
Born in 1924, she moved to New York City in 1955. Marcella would go on to write multiple cookbooks, receive numerous accolades including the James Beard Foundation lifetime Achievement Award, and win over the hearts of amateur and professional cooks alike for her simple technique driven recipes. If you've ever made Marcella's tomato sauce, which calls for just canned tomatoes, butter, one onion, and some salt, you know why she is so revered. As the former New York Times restaurant critic, Craig Claiborne said, "Marcella Hazan is a national treasure. No one has ever done more to spread the gospel of pure Italian cookery in America."
Tell us about Kai, how did Kai come about?
Jess Murphy:
I was working at Sheridans. Above Sheridans, we have the most amazing wine bar. I say "we" as in I still work there, technically in my mind I do. So we have an amazing wine bar, and bank manager from the Bank of Ireland used to go to the wine bar. And I was like, "Oh, what's your name?" And it was Pat Fleming, yada, yada. And I was like, "Oh, can I get a loan?" Because I wanted to start my own dairy. And I was like, "Yeah, I need probably half a million euros." And this was like 2008 when the whole world's economy was crashing, I had no idea. He was like, "Yeah, no, it's not going to happen." And I was like, "Well, what if I come and if I say, 'I need 35 grand for opening a restaurant?'" And he was like, "Okay, yeah, we'll do it." So I had-
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, in the wine bar? You hadn't even stepped foot in the bank?
Jess Murphy:
No, this was in his office. And then he was like, "You need to write a business plan." And I was like, "I got expelled from school when I was 15. I don't even know how to copy and paste on a computer." He was like, "Right, you have to come to my office for three days." We sat there and guesstimated how many people I'd do for lunch, how many employees I'd have, how much I'd pay them.
Kerry Diamond:
My jaws on the floor.
Jess Murphy:
I know, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Do things like that happen in Ireland? They don't happen here in New York like that.
Jess Murphy:
Well, I think you have to punch at the stars and kind of create your own luck. I'm just a little ball of frustration walking around the place, so I think I just get things done like that.
Kerry Diamond:
That was such a great thing you said, you have to punch at the stars.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, you have to be a little ball of frustration. You know, die trying.
Kerry Diamond:
I love that.
Jess Murphy:
Die trying, every time. Between my whole life savings, the 35 grand, I opened Kai with three euros, 10 in the bank account. I know that because me and Dave went to The Crane Bar on the corner to buy two pints, because we just finally got the doors open. So we had our first shift and we went to get a pint each and we had no money for two pints. And we had to bank the cash every day to pay our rent, and so that's how it started.
Kerry Diamond:
What was your vision for Kai in the beginning?
Jess Murphy:
Well, Kai is an old florist shop. I got Kai because a retired couple... And she was actually from San Francisco, married to an Irish guy. She did beautiful flowers, but she used to make some cakes, and I used to go in there and I used to just love her and talk to her. And then she was like, "You know what? We're really retiring, but I loved Alice Waters so much. I can really see something in you that's like Alice Waters. We have a restaurant license. We already have a wine license. This is how much it is for rent." They didn't do one on me, they actually gave me a really reasonable rent. And they were like, "We just want somebody to look after the place." And I was like, "Well, I won't change it too much." And it still has that whole florist shop vibe, it's really cute.
Kerry Diamond:
What a story. And to have her recognize something in you that she had seen in Alice Waters, that's pretty major.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah. At the time I was like, "Oh, this is crazy."
Kerry Diamond:
And why Kai? Why that name?
Jess Murphy:
Kai means food in Maori. Where I'm from is like 65% Maori, so I grew up in this amazing town being looked after by all these amazing Maori women. So I was like, "Yeah, Kai. That's where my heart is. I'm going to call it Kai because..." I don't know, I just didn't want to call it a tacky Irish name, I wanted it to mean something. I love bia, the word bia as well, but I had already worked for Ard Bia. And then I was trying to figure out a name and I was like, "Yeah, Kai's great." Either that or Jess and Dave's Bistro. Or Jess's Bar and Grill. Kai is perfect.
Kerry Diamond:
What was the culinary vision for Kai when you opened?
Jess Murphy:
Really slow food. I'd been working at Sheridans. I got taught by Kevin Thornton where you'd see a delivery of 20 pigs heads and I'd have to bone out all the pigs heads and marinate them in poitin for three weeks and make them basically into a sausage, using their own head. Kevin taught me so much about really creepy stuff like that. And then skinning rabbits, all the game. Then I went into work with the Sheridans brothers, so then they taught me everything Irish. How important an Irish native apple is, and we have a program in the west or Ireland called Seed Savers. They actually go and find trees that are like 500 years old and graft them, so you can actually get the modern day trees for your own backyard. Just really special stuff like that. Even potatoes. I know people go, "oh, there's more to Ireland than potatoes." I'm like, "No, man. Potatoes were our currency. Be proud of our potatoes. I don't care."
Kerry Diamond:
You made the best potatoes yesterday.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, well, you have to get into really loving potatoes, because sometimes you have potatoes in an eel in the middle of winter and maybe some beetroot.
Kerry Diamond:
Those were magical potatoes. Do you know what kind that was yesterday?
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, they were fingerlings.
Kerry Diamond:
So good. And what was underneath?
Jess Murphy:
Underneath the potatoes was a labneh. Just really simple, I use salt in my labneh because it cures quicker. Labneh, kimchi, and then potatoes tossed in white miso and butter. Sometimes at home I do Vegemite, Vegemite butter.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. I tried not to totally pig out on the potatoes, but I could have eaten that whole bowl by myself.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, I kind of just ate potatoes yesterday myself.
Kerry Diamond:
How old is Kai now?
Jess Murphy:
So Kai's 13 this year.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my gosh.
Jess Murphy:
No, I'm like a tired showgirl.
Kerry Diamond:
That's the real deal. You've won a bunch of awards, but one that you're super proud of, and it's something I had really never heard of before, a Green Michelin Star.
Jess Murphy:
The Green Michelin star is being recognized for your sustainability, because I always look at sustainability. I'm like, "Yeah, cool. We all should be recycling at this stage. Yes, we all should be washing our containers. Yes, we all should be doing all those things, that's basic knowledge. We know that." But for me, I look at the community as being sustainable. So I look at the community, my workforce, and then I look at people around me in my own community. I suppose being the Green Michelin Star, just being recognized for work I do with the UNHCR, and then also with schools.
Kerry Diamond:
Just for some folks who listen who are restaurateurs and chefs, I think everybody in this industry now wants to have their places be greener, but sometimes you just don't even know where to start. What are some of the things you're doing that folks here can learn from?
Jess Murphy:
So like anything, small drips fill a bucket. I started with toilet paper, just using recyclable toilet paper. Then changing things like the paper roll that we use into a recycled roll. And then I was like, "You know what? These bags that the salad leaves are coming in are really strong. We'll just rinse them out, hang them up, dry them out, give them back to the producer." And then the organic guys were like, "Oh, we really need cardboard to keep down the weeds and stuff like that," they use it to mulch. And I was like, "Sweet. Well, you can have all my cardboard because it costs me seven euros a bag, but you guys can just take it away and mulch it." So it just all started with that. Just ask your suppliers or farmers. You know one of those really cheap scratch cards, there's something underneath, it may not be all the time, but there's always a backstory of somebody else that's going to need the product that you need.
Whether or not it's your coffee grounds, we have lots of gardeners in Galway. We mix the coffee grounds with seaweed, which makes dirt again, and all this kind of stuff. We weigh our rubbish. It's all saving money, because you don't have to pay for a rubbish company to take it away. So technically it's environmentally good, but also it keeps your food costs down for your restaurant, so it's economically smart.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about your work with the United Nations, because I know this is something that's so deep in your heart and it's really important work that you do. Tell us what you're doing with the United Nations and how that work began.
Jess Murphy:
Okay so we all know the Irish food history of how the Irish were starved and basically populated America and other countries, they had to leave. They created this huge vacuum. So historians have found out that it takes two generations to lose your food heritage. And when I first moved to Ireland, there was no foreigners. Well, there was a handful of us, but all the foreigners were like all mates because we were missing something, especially food-wise, you like spice or lemongrass or something. Anyway, so I just noticed more and more refugees were coming into Ireland and I was like, "Oh, this is a tricky moment. This could go either two ways because Ireland's never really had that many refugees coming into it." What happened in Australia is in the 70s they opened the floodgates. So all Greeks, Lebanese, even Serbians, Bosnians, Polish moved into Australia to populate it.
And then their food culture is phenomenal. And I was like, "This is going to happen to Ireland, but what we're going to have is people doing Shawarma, but with Irish lamb and beautiful Irish beef and they're making their own cheese because they can't get their cheese that they have at home." And I was like, "Well, somebody needs to start recording all this." So that's what I did, because I don't want them to move to island and lose their food heritage. At the moment... I was saying to the girls the other day... I was in Rome at Parabere Forum, I was saying to the girls, "I'm now on my second generation. Now I'm recording the daughter's food history, now of Yemenis Irish mixes and all that kind of stuff." Yeah, I just started recording it and then bizarrely enough, again, the Jess Murphy world that it is, somebody's like, "Hey, can I record that?"
And I'm like, "Yes, please." And then I got a phone call from a guy called Jody, because everyone's like, "Jody? Jody and Jess." I was like, "Jody's a man, okay?" Because the six-foot tall guy walks in. So myself and Jody went on a mission. So we went to Beirut and we went to refugee camps just outside of Damascus, about 45 minutes away from Damascus. Actually, bizarrely enough, it was by Chateau Musar, which is the most famous Lebanese winery. So we were in Beirut and we were on refugee camp. Sarah and I was just seeing what kids ate, and what we all know universally is kids love fries. But yeah, that was kind of cute. I followed loads of refugees that were getting re-homed and were resettled in Ireland. And then I also went to Jordan. So I went to Azraq, which was a refugee camp. I think it's maximum is 80,000 now, they're at maximum. I think 35 babies are born there a week. So that was an amazing, amazing experience.
Kerry Diamond:
When you say you were recording their food histories, what were you doing with that?
Jess Murphy:
So I was just cooking. I was going to their houses, sitting there for hours and just recording what they were doing.
Kerry Diamond:
And were you putting it on social media, or was there a website? Or you were just doing this-
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, it's on the Irish UNHCR website. There's actually four documentaries I filmed, which was fantastic. I basically did it on no budget. I never have any money to do anything like this, which is like most of the time you get more creative. I filmed with Yemenis women and we studied bread at Bread 41 in Dublin. I went and killed a goat in St. Tola Goat's Cheese, it's the most amazing cheese. But with the goat's cheese thing, they only take the lady goats, so we eat the men goats. So I cooked Jollof rice with goat and everything like that, in the middle of a field in Clear, all this kind of stuff. It's super cool and it's just recording their history. And people got Irish wives and husbands now, a lot of them.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. I was going to ask you, how has it been for them in Ireland? Are they welcomed? Are they treated well?
Jess Murphy:
Absolutely. They are treated well, but the Ukrainian war has taken its toll, I find. Yeah, Ireland's going through a messy little blimp, I like to call it in history at the moment. At the moment, when you apply for refugee status, you should be able to work. Immigrants want to work. If there's one thing immigrants do, and really well, is we work, that's a point to get across. They're not rocking up going on the dole or a benefit or whatever.
Kerry Diamond:
They can't work now when they come to Ireland?
Jess Murphy:
They can, but they have to kind of wait for their papers. So the waiting process is really vital to stick with them. So depression doesn't set in because their hands are tied. A lot of them volunteer with local gardeners and growers and stuff like that, which is really cool.
Kerry Diamond:
Are some politicians making it harder for them to get their papers, is that what you're saying?
Jess Murphy:
Actually, the whole world at the moment is a little bit-
Kerry Diamond:
Hostile-
Jess Murphy:
... Hostile to-
Kerry Diamond:
... To immigrants.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, quite a lot of different things are going on.
Kerry Diamond:
And refugees and-
Jess Murphy:
That's it.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, everyone
Jess Murphy:
Food shouldn't ever be used as a weapon. And so creating this food history for them, hopefully when I die, I leave Ireland with a little bit more recorded food culture for everybody else that was bought up. So hopefully... I always use Sarah as an example. Sarah is one of the Yemenis daughters, so she's studying Forensic Science in Galway University. So Sarah always comes to the restaurant and we have a cup of tea together and we have the chats. And I'm just like... She's translating her mother's recipes into written word because obviously... And I'm like, "Don't lose your Yemenese, just make sure you refresh your language all the time and stuff like that." Yeah, it's just nice to see that generation coming out.
Kerry Diamond:
How has this changed Kai over the years?
Jess Murphy:
Oh, it's changed it immensely. It's changed all the way that I cook. And it's really funny because it doesn't matter what culture you work with, you always do it wrong and you do it like some other woman from another culture. The Syrians always go, "Oh no, everything you do is too big, you're like an Iranian woman." Or, "Yeah, no, no, no." And then the Congolese women are like, "Who taught you how to make plantain like that?" And I'm like, "Listen ladies, I'm one woman trying to just do the do." It's quite cute.
Kerry Diamond:
You do your best.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, well, as a chef, you don't actually get yelled at that often. So I find it kind of refreshing to be told off by a older woman.
Kerry Diamond:
You also did a book, “United Nations of Cookies.”
Jess Murphy:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Thank you for giving me a copy.
Jess Murphy:
No problem.
Kerry Diamond:
Can folks get the book anywhere?
Jess Murphy:
You can get it at Blaster Books online. The whole backstory of my UNHCR work goes into that. And all the authors proceeds... So all our proceeds go back to the UNHCR, it's pretty cool. But I just needed a hook, line, and sinker to be able to go to schools to teach kids that it's okay to be a short dumpy little cookie. And then there's thumbprint jam cookies from Norway and yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
So we're all a different kind of cookie. If you were a cookie, what cookie would you be?
Jess Murphy:
Well, I'd be the Anzac Biscuit, clearly
Kerry Diamond:
I had that for the first time a few years ago.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, they're really nice.
Kerry Diamond:
There was somebody from New Zealand and he had a Crowded House T-shirt on.
Jess Murphy:
Oh my God, was it like Russell Crowe? He always pretends that he's Australian, but he's actually from New Zealand.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I didn't know that.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay.
Jess Murphy:
But Australia, you can have them now at this stage, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
So an Anzac Biscuit. I need to think about what kind of cookie I would be.
Jess Murphy:
My American ex sous chef... I've always had an American sous chef in Kai. One was from Long Island, one was from Massachusetts, one was from New York. So they've always done you know the everything cookie with the pretzels an-
Kerry Diamond:
Like a kitchen sink cookie.
Jess Murphy:
Kitchen sink cookies. And you guys like all your cookies really soft, which I find is really weird.
Kerry Diamond:
I like it cooked on the outside and a little under baked in the inside.
Jess Murphy:
No, I need it to snap, man. I need it to be like jib board.
Kerry Diamond:
I'd probably be a Girl Scout cookie. I was a champion seller of Girl Scout cookies when I was a kid. Did you have the Girl Scouts in New Zealand?
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, we have the Girl... But they've gone really fancy, they've started dipping them in chocolate now, they've gone really bougie. Before it was just like a plain wine biscuit, with no vanilla or anything in it.
Kerry Diamond:
My mother was the Girl Scout cookie mom one year. So this tractor trailer pulls up to the house to drop off all the cookies so all the other families can come pick up the cookies. But somehow, instead of 100 boxes, we got 1,000 boxes. But they weren't 1,000 boxes of every flavor. They were... I'm exaggerating about a thousand. But it was double what we were supposed to get. And instead of getting one of each, it was all peanut butter. So every day my mother would send us to school with a box of the peanut butter Girl Scout cookies, and they weren't the tag alongs, they-
Jess Murphy:
And you wiped out everybody with peanut with a nut allergy.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, the nuns-
Jess Murphy:
You wiped the mall out.
Kerry Diamond:
People didn't really have peanut butter allergies back then.
Jess Murphy:
No, isn't it weird?
Kerry Diamond:
It's a long time ago.
Jess Murphy:
And now on the radio they're saying, "Give your kids peanut butter so they don't develop allergies," in Ireland.
Kerry Diamond:
Interesting.
Jess Murphy:
Which is a weird one.
Kerry Diamond:
So we would bring the peanut butter cookies to school and the Principal, Sister Janine had to call my mother and say, "Please don't bring any more peanut butter cookies to school."
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, stop. Stop the flow.
Kerry Diamond:
Everyone was sick of them. Anyway, I'm going to think about what kind of cookie I am. And everybody, I want you to stop for a second and think about what kind of cookie you are.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, the cookie thing is perfect, right? Because then you can get these little kids to listen to this woman going on about, "It's okay to be a different cookie. Because you have cookies behind you, so you have the stuff that they want behind you, but they have to listen to you." And I wrap it up in 20 minutes. So the five-year olds... We can get that message through and then it's like, "Cookie." But I always do the American cookie with kids. It's always colorful, it's got the M&Ms in it and stuff, and they're just like, "Ah."
Kerry Diamond:
How do you wind up with so many American sous chefs?
Jess Murphy:
Well, American Irish, I guess. But yeah, which is cool. They first taught me about Old Bay and Ranch. Ranch being my mother sauce. Now I'm like a Ranch dealer in Galway.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, I love Ireland. I can't wait to come back. I got to go with Kerrygold in 2019. It was just the most magical trip. We went to Ballymaloe. We went and visited all the farms. There was this one farm... I can't remember what part of the country, but the cows were basically grazing on the most picturesque cliff side farm you've ever seen. And I was like, "Wow, in America they'd build a condo there, and instead they let the cows graze here."
Jess Murphy:
The cows and sheep are grazing together and they're all eating seaweed. And we're coming up to May, which people don't know about is the magical butter month. May is the magical butter month in Ireland for biodiversity. It's when the cows are eating all the nettles, the buttercups, the clovers, all the different glasses and all that kind of stuff. Because we have a thing in Ireland where we don't mow in May, it's no mow May to help with diversity. The butter then is next level. It's like even golden. You'll notice it, you'll notice it. Even in Kerrygold.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm going to pay attention now. Or yogurt. No, that's where I really notice it, how yogurt will taste different throughout the year. Because I buy my yogurt at the farmer's market.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, absolutely. If you can really smell cheese as well, you can smell on the cheese... If you close your eyes, I can smell the area it came from. So if it's like the Luau Valley, you can smell the straw because it just reminds you of farming and stuff like that. And yeah, it's so unique to its own place.
Kerry Diamond:
So cool. Well, I can't wait to come back. We've talked about doing Jubilee in Dublin, I would love to make that happen.
Jess Murphy:
That would be amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
That'd be fun, right?
Jess Murphy:
Yeah. Or we could totally host it in the west of Ireland, because you don't have to go to Dublin all the time. Just saying, there's very frequent buses from Dublin to Galway.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, like you said, it is a small country, you can get from one side to the other. It's a little bit easier than getting-
Jess Murphy:
In three hours.
Kerry Diamond:
... From New York to California, for example. Speaking of New York, how is New York treating you on this trip?
Jess Murphy:
Oh, amazing. I went to a amazing spot, the Red Hook Tavern.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, you're right near my apartment.
Jess Murphy:
Oh, okay.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, close to there.
Jess Murphy:
So I went to Red Hook Tavern, and then I went to Sonny's. Billy, who owns Red Hook Tavern... I did the Big Grill with Billy for a few years. I went there and I had the most amazing burger and oysters, so that was amazing. So that was the first three hours I was in New York. And then I woke up, and then because of the jet lag, you can really use it to your advantage. Because you're up really early, so then I walked to Katz's Deli and I was like the only one in there having matzo ball soup and latkes. Yeah, so I've had the most amazing eating experience. I went to Murray's Cheese shop today. I bought all the American cheese that I could possibly buy, which was fantastic. It was pretty quiet because it was early in the morning, so I got to peak cheese talk out with the cheese mongers behind the American counter. And I was like, "Man, I've just seen the American cheese movement transcend over the last 20 years."
Kerry Diamond:
It's incredible.
Jess Murphy:
It is super cool.
Kerry Diamond:
But American cheese, not to be confused with American cheese. You know what that is, right?
Jess Murphy:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
Really?
Jess Murphy:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
Like Kraft singles, the stuff that's wrapped in cellophane, and it's terrible.
Jess Murphy:
Oh, is that what you call that? American cheese.
Kerry Diamond:
It's called American Cheese, yeah. We are not proud of that.
Jess Murphy:
Okay. Yeah. Well, we have that New Zealand too, so yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
You don't call it New Zealand cheese, I guess.
Jess Murphy:
No, I don't know what we call it. Sliced cheese, I think. That's kind of nice on a burger. The really nasty nacho sauce that people pump on your corn chips in the movies?
Kerry Diamond:
Oh yeah, I don't really eat that.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, I'm really into that. That would be my secret.
Kerry Diamond:
Where was Darina cooking? I heard a rumor that you slipped into that, lunch with dinner.
Jess Murphy:
Oh, I crash every event Darina was doing.
Kerry Diamond:
Darina Allen famously of Ballymaloe.
Jess Murphy:
It's amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
Dreamy, right? Anyway, Darina, total grande dame. She's here promoting her new bread book, and she's cooking with the gals from King.
Jess Murphy:
She's cooking with the girls from King. And then she was cooking in Sailor. And then she also had a Pop-up event, which I finished my event and then went and sliced salmon for Darina's book event at a bookshop in Brooklyn.
Kerry Diamond:
She didn't tell me about that.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, I don't think it was supposed to be a thing.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, Archestratus?
Jess Murphy:
That's it.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, the best.
Jess Murphy:
So I went to that bookshop, oh my gosh.
Kerry Diamond:
Isn't it great? Yeah. If you all are visiting New York City, you have to put Archestratus-
Jess Murphy:
You have to go there.
Kerry Diamond:
... On your list.
Jess Murphy:
Absolutely amazing. And obviously I met the owner who was fantastic, and then we went to Gertrude.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow, you made the rounds.
Jess Murphy:
I've done everything.
Kerry Diamond:
You covered a lot of ground. You're taking the subway?
Jess Murphy:
Yes. Golden rule, don't stand in the front line. These are all the things I got told. I was like, "I think..."
Kerry Diamond:
Oh yeah, you don't want to stand... Yes, definitely do not stand close to the line, you stand back.
Jess Murphy:
But it's like the Irish thing though. It's like, "Oh, you're going to America, the holy land." Which is quite funny.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, now we want to go back.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, it's fab though. It's great that you're all visiting because for us, American tourists, it makes our summer.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's good.
Jess Murphy:
It's really cool. I remember Kai was, I think three years open, and we never had a tourist in there because we're kind of like a five-minute walk from town. And if you know, you kind of know the area. So you kind of just have to ask people along the way where we are. But, so our first TripAdvisor... I don't really like TripAdvisor as such as a platform, but our first American couple that actually ate in Kai wrote this TripAdvisor, and it was like, "Oh my God, I have found this quaint little restaurant and it's nestled between the gay bar and the church." And I was like, "This is amazing. I need to put this on my website. I can't even write that better." So now it's officially on our website, that's a quote, but the quote we ripped off from TripAdvisor.
Kerry Diamond:
Bless that American couple.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, they were cool. They have no idea. I wonder who they are. We should do a TV series of going to find them again. You know like they did with that National Geographic lady.
Kerry Diamond:
No.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, they've shot the front cover of that kid and then they went back to Afghanistan and they found her.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, the woman with the eyes. Yes, yes. Let's do a speed round. What beverage do you start your day with?
Jess Murphy:
Black coffee.
Kerry Diamond:
What's a cookbook you love, or a book on food?
Jess Murphy:
Anything written by Rory O'Connell, he's my dream boat.
Kerry Diamond:
Rory's great.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, I want to marry him. One day he'll let me, we'll just be companions.
Kerry Diamond:
And he's a Ballymaloe.
Jess Murphy:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Darina's brother, right?
Jess Murphy:
Darina's brother.
Kerry Diamond:
What's always in your fridge?
Jess Murphy:
Cheese, obviously.
Kerry Diamond:
What was your favorite snack food as a kid?
Jess Murphy:
Vegemite and iceberg lettuce sandwiches on white sliced pan.
Kerry Diamond:
Huh. Okay. White sliced pan, is that like Wonder Bread? Was it squishy?
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, like really horrible processed bread that you can't feed Swans. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
What are you streaming right now?
Jess Murphy:
“Grace and Frankie.”
Kerry Diamond:
What's your footwear of choice in the kitchen?
Jess Murphy:
Blundstones.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite kitchen implement?
Jess Murphy:
Will have to be my apron. So anything made by White Bark Workwear is amazing. I get them to send it over from LA all the time. It's the best chef-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I don't know them. White Bark? B-A-R-K.
Jess Murphy:
Yep, Workwear. All organic American hemp, all hand sewn. And I used to be a lot bigger than I am now. They're super size inclusive. They just make you feel amazing, they give you confidence.
Kerry Diamond:
Cool. White Bark. Okay, we're going to look into them. Last question, if you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Jess Murphy:
One food celebrity. It would be Ken Hom. Because I used to watch him and Richard Simmons when I was like eight with my grandmother. Richard Simmons used to be on doing his exercising.
Kerry Diamond:
The aerobics guy?
Jess Murphy:
Yeah. Where is he? No one knows. Still, have they found him? We don't know. Right after Richard Simmons, there was Ken Hom. And it's the first time I ever seen somebody with wok and cooking rice. In New Zealand we didn't have people that cooked rice, rice was totally exotic, it was like pasta.
Kerry Diamond:
Just tell us, so folks who are in the US, how can they support what you do? They can visit you in Ireland one day, but they can buy your book here on Amazon, I'm guessing.
Jess Murphy:
Blaster Books. If you go online and you look up Blaster Books, which is a really small, amazing Irish publisher, a female publisher.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, awesome. So you could buy direct from their website?
Jess Murphy:
Direct from their website. Yeah, and there's loads of Irish books that we are publishing now.
Kerry Diamond:
We'll put a link in the show notes to that. Anything else? You have a Substack? Do you have a radio show? You should have a radio show.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, I'd love my own radio show. No, just come to the restaurant and come and see me. I don't know, buy Irish and support women. Give me a follow on Instagram, then you'll see all my American friends and go to their restaurants, start the little chain gang going.
Kerry Diamond:
I love it. Well, Jess, I could talk to you forever. I feel like this was such a big gift getting to know you this week.
Jess Murphy:
Oh, I should have sung you happy birthday.
Kerry Diamond:
It's been a treat getting to know you and I can't wait to visit you in Ireland.
Jess Murphy:
Yeah, I can't wait to have you. And thanks so much. Yeah, it's been great. Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Don't forget, the Cherry Bombe Jubilee Conference is coming up Saturday, April 20th at Center 415 in Manhattan. Tickets are now on sale. And the Jubilee Scholars application is open. Check out the show notes or our Instagram for the link to the application and to tickets. Jubilee is always an amazing day and I'd love to see you there. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazan is the recording engineer for Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Elizabeth Vogt. Our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu and our editorial assistant is Londyn Crenshaw. Thanks for listening everybody, you're the Bombe.