Jess Shadbolt Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine, and each week, I talk to the most interesting women and culinary creatives in and around the world of food.
Today's guest is Chef Jess Shadbolt of King and Jupiter Restaurants here in New York City. Jess didn't start out as a chef, you career changers will love this. She worked in PR and later was an assistant to the legendary River Cafe London founders Ruthie Rogers and Rose Gray. Jess, however, it was mesmerized by life in the kitchen and after a few years headed to Ireland's renowned Ballymaloe Culinary School, or Cookery School as they call it there. Fast-forward, Jess moved to New York with her work partners Annie Shi and Clare de Boer. With very little experience, the trio opened King, which became one of the most celebrated restaurants in the city for its daily changing menu, and fun fact, they don't use any recipes in the kitchen. We will certainly talk about that later. In November, the team opened their second restaurant, Jupiter, which is right here in Rockefeller Center. Jess, along with Annie and Clare are on the cover of the latest Cherry Bombe print magazine. I hope you've all picked up a copy. It has been so much fun getting to know the team. Enjoy my chat with Jess, and you can blame us if you are overwhelmed with a sudden desire to make a pot of beans. Stay tuned.
Today's show is presented by OpenTable. OpenTable helps bring restaurants and diners together, making great meals, unique experiences, and even delivery and takeout easier to find at over 50,000 restaurants worldwide. Whether you're on the app or on your desktop, you can search by cuisine, time and availability. I especially love that OpenTable has a search function to help you find woman-owned, Black-owned and LGBTQ-owned restaurants in your favorite cities.
Guess what? This July Cherry Bombe is hosting a four-city dinner series with OpenTable. It's called Sit With Us, and it's all about community and connection, our two favorite things. Team Cherry Bombe, will be hosting special dinners at female-fueled restaurants on the Open Table Network in New York, Austin, L.A., and San Francisco. Come by yourself and sit with us or bring a pal or two. Either way, it's going to be a fun night of friendship and great food. Stay tuned for details as these experiences will be available exclusively on OpenTable starting very soon. OpenTable is proud to support female chefs and restaurateurs, and we are so excited to partner with OpenTable.
Some fun things to share with you, team Cherry Bombe is going back on the road. We have a special networking event with the team behind our baking podcast, She's My Cherry Pie, in Dallas on Tuesday, June 20th at Bird Bakery. If you are baker or pastry chef or you love baked goods, and that's all of us, you should snag a ticket and come hang out. Host Jessie Sheehan will be there along with some good friends of Cherry Bombe's, like Jerrelle Guy. If you have any pals in Dallas, be sure to let them know. Then on Wednesday, June 28th, we'll be in Atlanta at Star Provisions for a special event celebrating our other podcast, The Future Of Food Is You, are you the future? Then you should come by. I'll be there as will Future food host Abena Anim-Somuah, and I heard Casey Corn and Jamila Norman from the Magnolia Network will be there too. You can purchase a ticket at cherrybombe.com.
Now let's check in with today's guest. Jess Shadbolt, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Jess Shadbolt:
So happy to be here.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm so excited. I've wanted to talk to you for so long.
Jess Shadbolt:
Likewise, I keep hearing through the window like a goldfish, so very happy to be here.
Kerry Diamond:
That's true. You work not quite a stone's throw, but almost a stone's throw from here. I know we did our big interview for the cover story, but I still have so many questions and so many follow-up questions to a lot of the things you said, but first, I just want to thank you and the crew for being on the cover. It was such a delight working on the story and the photos and everything.
Jess Shadbolt:
Are you joking? The pleasure was all ours. It was such an honor to be part of the celebration and to be featured in that way, and it was an amazing day working with you and your team. It was fantastic.
Kerry Diamond:
Usually, I start with talking to folks about their childhoods, but I do want to jump ahead because you said something to me when we did the interview for the cover that I still am so shocked by that King does not have recipes.
Jess Shadbolt:
No, and funnily enough, we're working on a cookbook at the moment. That's not a plug, but we are trying to write the King cookbook, and I feel like the process has been even elongated because we've had to go back into the kitchen, put something on the page and then write the recipes, see if it works for six portions as opposed to 66 portions and then test it. Yeah, we don't have any recipes, and I think that's been a real challenge in this exercise because they're all in our head. I know how to make a rabbit sauce for 50 people, but I have no idea how to do it for six. Even at home when I'm cooking, I cannot cook for less than 12 people.
Kerry Diamond:
But the whole idea of a restaurant with without recipes just blew my mind. It seems like something that's not done.
Jess Shadbolt:
Well, I think obviously both Clare and I were trained with this very intuitive approach to cooking; consider the ingredient first, consider the season, consider where that ingredient is in the season. Is it early and sweet or a little bit later? And a little tougher in the case of a broad bean or a fennel.
Kerry Diamond:
This was at The River Cafe?
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah, The River Cafe. But also earlier on at Ballymaloe, we were very much taught to approach food on the plate in that way. Then we have a daily changing menu and each morning we would arrive bleary-eyed and we would think, "What have we got here today? How many people we got coming in? What is the weather?" That played a part. More often than not, what played the biggest part was what did we want to eat for dinner that night? So then we approached it from there.
Obviously there are recipes in terms of the approach to risotto or a soup or a braise, but nothing was ever documented because it was so dependent on what else would be on the menu that day or what we were serving it with. That has actually been part of the challenge at King because we have an amazing team, and many of the kitchen folks have been with us almost from day one, and we've been able to pass that onto them. It's lovely to see that go down into the next generation and now, I think, almost generation three at King. Obviously sometimes it throws a question mark in terms of consistency, or I like something one way or Angel likes it a different way. But I think that's what gives it the character.
Kerry Diamond:
Is it hard to train new employees?
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah, I think when you start at the kitchen at King, our approach is very much getting the cooks to understand obviously the ethos. That is based predominantly around beans and greens. Someone once said, I shouldn't name the person, a very famous cook in the city, that King was nothing more than a bean and a green. Actually, I was offended at first, and now I take that with real pride. We are, that is the cornerstones of our cooking. They are at the cornerstones of this kind of food that we're so inspired by. We really try and understand the nuance of what that looks like and why they're so much part of the genetic makeup of the menu. Then once they understand that and if they get excited about the nuance of that style, then we move them on into sauces and then how we approach a soup or a braise. I believe that that's a really great way of learning the foundations of this type of very simple and humble food. But if you get that right, you're halfway there.
Kerry Diamond:
Why are so many people scared to cook without recipes?
Jess Shadbolt:
I think it's about confidence. Once you have cooked with recipes and you understand if you follow a recipe and it's a success, you think, "Yes, I did it." I think that there needs to be an element of that at the beginning to get your training wheels. Once you have had multiple successes, I think that you have this confidence and then a freedom to go forward and try and not necessarily be creative, but to follow at your intuition. My mom never followed recipes, and if a recipe had more than five ingredients, she'd be like, "Ugh, can't be bothered with that."
She would edit it depending on what she had in the pantry and what she had in the fridge and she'd be like, "Oh, that's a bit more of a faf, so I'm not going to do that," and maybe I picked up on that approach. But I think that recipes like a Delia Smith books one, two and three are the perfect introduction. Literally the first four chapters are about eggs and the importance of eggs, mastering their understanding, and there's a science in there too. If you get that basis, then I think you have the freedom to go a little bit further afield.
Kerry Diamond:
Now there's a difference in being a home cook like your mom, having the confidence to do that and preferring to cook that way versus opening an entire restaurant built around that. What gave you the confidence in your palette?
Jess Shadbolt:
I guess it's just you believe and you know what you know. It was all that I'd known, obviously coming from The River Cafe being taught by Darina Allen at Ballymaloe, obviously mum being the that'll do cook, I think so much of-
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, you have to steal that for a cookbook title one day.
Jess Shadbolt:
That is going to be my next cookbook.
Kerry Diamond:
Yes. Yes.
Jess Shadbolt:
That will be "That'll Do."
Kerry Diamond:
Yes, you claim that.
Jess Shadbolt:
Rezzies for lazy chefs.
Kerry Diamond:
Get the URL quick.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah, exactly. We were extremely convicted in what we wanted to do at King. We had limited experience in it, and that's being generous I'd say. But we just had a real unyielding approach to what we wanted to put out there.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us what the food is at King. You've got a very specific definition. It's Italian and Southern French.
Jess Shadbolt:
Well, you know what? Actually, when we opened, we referenced it was cooking from Southern France and regional Italian food. I think over the years it's really evolved to have its own identity. Actually, that now includes a little bit of British food, which I love, particularly in the desserts. But I think that style of cooking, that regional cooking, whether it's in France or Italy, really relies first and foremost on seasons and ingredients and not doing too much with it and just celebrating. Those techniques that we use and we now teach our cook, we haven't reinvented the wheel.
The Nonnas of the world have been doing this for centuries. I was actually reading Honey From the Weeds the other day, which is one of my favorite books by Patience Gray. It's just so part of that kind of inherent cooking in those areas. They differ from household to household and region to region and family to family, and everyone can change and adapt it accordingly. I think that was just very much at the core of what we loved. At the end of the day, we were just very greedy and we loved delicious, simple, tasty food, and that's what we wanted to do.
Kerry Diamond:
But for a New York City restaurant, that was a very rare thing to open a restaurant where the menu changed every day and where you didn't have recipes.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah, I'm not convinced that we necessarily knew that at the time. I think that style of cooking is really quite familiar in London, that these smaller chef-owned restaurants with small menus and King's menus, very small cooking as you would that kind of domestic cooking. I think that was very seen in London, and it felt very true to how we were taught to cook and how we liked to eat. So honestly, when we came here to open King, that wasn't necessarily part of the concept. It wasn't like we're going to open a daily changing menu. It's just like that's what felt right and true to us.
Kerry Diamond:
I do love, though, that you turn the expectations of the diner on their head. So many times now you go to a restaurant because of the menu. You go to a restaurant because some dish went viral, or you really have to have that one pasta or whatever the dish might be. I feel like King is the absolute opposite. You're really asking the diner to trust you and to be open to the experience.
Jess Shadbolt:
If I could revisit or maybe I wouldn't want to, but certainly the first three months was complete chaos. It was just Clare and I and Sadie in the kitchen. We didn't have a prep cook and we didn't have a dishwasher, and Annie was behind the bar and serving. We thought we were serving for 30 people, so we'd make 24 portions of something. Before we knew it, it went to 70 and we just couldn't produce it. By the end of the night, out of the seven dishes, three had definitely gone off. It had to be removed from the menu. I guess sometimes that chalkboard mentality, particularly in Paris of, "Okay, this is gone." We thought-
Kerry Diamond:
Well, wait. It's not a bad thing.
Jess Shadbolt:
It's not a bad thing.
Kerry Diamond:
But here in New York it's 86th, they not a great thing.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah. To be fair, it probably wasn't right to ask someone to pick two items off the menu. We definitely adapted that quite quickly, but when we realized that there wasn't a lot of leniency in that, yeah, there was a lot of trust there. We didn't really know that at the time, but we are grateful that people returned.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, things worked out. You got a fantastic review not quite a year in, a little earlier than that, I think, from Pete Wells.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Pete Wells recently put you on the list of 100-
Jess Shadbolt:
I know.
Kerry Diamond:
... best restaurants in New York City.
Jess Shadbolt:
Amazing. Really amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
Such an honor, so congratulations on that.
Jess Shadbolt:
Thank you. Yeah, we feel very grateful. It was an amazing surprise. Honestly, that whole list is jam packed full of legends. It felt really crazy to be amongst it.
Kerry Diamond:
So you opened your second place. It took you a long time to open a second place. How many years between the opening of King and the opening of Jupiter?
Jess Shadbolt:
We opened King in 2016, and then we've just opened Jupiter in 2022, right?
Kerry Diamond:
You resisted for a long time. Yes, that is correct.
Jess Shadbolt:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
2022, right around Thanksgiving, tough time to open a restaurant. You resisted for a long time opening a second restaurant. Why was that?
Jess Shadbolt:
First and foremost, we were just so completely in the weeds. We had absolutely no moment where we felt like our heads were above water and we were living it day in, day out. I think the hesitation, well first we didn't really even think that it was a possibility or an opportunity on the horizon. I think also when you open a restaurant like King, it is everything that you believe to be true. It's like making a mixtape for someone. It's like, "Here's what I believe and this is me." I think that every belief that we had went on to that menu and into the whole concept of the restaurant in the way that we wanted to work with our team and we wanted to teach the cooks or we wanted the culture in the front of house or what Annie wanted to put on the wine list. Everything was your top picks of everything.
Then you work so hard to open it, and then you're completely in the weeds for a few years. So it was like, I don't know what else there is to say. Certainly, that's how I felt for a long time. I come from that school of it is one restaurant that you put everything in to make brilliant and hopefully it has longevity and people respond to it, from Zuni Cafe to Chez Panisse, to obviously The River Cafe, these the icons and the people that we admire so much and really shown that way. I think I love that classic approach to a restaurant. It can be one thing, and it doesn't have to be everything else. Put a stake in the ground and show your beliefs and try and do it really well.
Kerry Diamond:
You said the most beautiful thing in the cover story. You said, "It's one golden egg and you treasure it for life."
Jess Shadbolt:
Yes, I stand behind that. I think that was the creative and the heart part of it, and also the reality of just literally not being able to think outside of the service that night. Then, of course, the world changed a little bit and there was COVID. That was a really revealing time in that for everybody, obviously, that there were moments where we didn't think King would survive it. We wondered if it'd be better off in terms of closing it and redoing something. Everyone, I'm sure, no matter what industry they were in had those moments of doubt, and then we decided just to dig in and to really move forward. In doing that, we realized that we've got this incredible team, we've got this great space and we've got a lot of support.
I'm still shocked to the day of that kind of support that we got from the community and our regulars, we call them FOKs, friends of King. That was mind-blowing to me. I think that would only actually happen in New York. I think that's such a great sign of the way that people support their local restaurants, and that was really humbling. We just thought, "Right, we've got to do this," and then this opportunity came across our desk. It was one that we really wanted to explore just because it was so different and King couldn't scale and it never will because it's a daily changing menu.
There's no way you could do that, you could never open another King because of the way that it's made up. But we were suddenly thinking about how and what could speak to who we are. Like everything, I always think restaurants are dictated by the space. Then when we saw the space here at the Rockefeller Center, it just felt like this awesome canteen all-day eatery, really those big roaming spaces that feel like that clatter of sound. That really was like, "Okay, here is a different space." It's not a beautiful corner spot in the West Village. This is big and iconic, and it's right on the ice ring, which felt like this piazza kind of style. We were like, "Right, well, this has got to be proper Italian. Let's do that," and so that's how it came to be.
Kerry Diamond:
We'll be right back with today's guest. The Cherry Bombe Magazine warehouse sale has been extended a few days. You can purchase back issues of our beautiful print magazine for $10, and that includes shipping. Now is your chance to check out issues you might have missed. Prices will never be that low again. We're moving to a new fulfillment center, so we thought it was a good time for a sale. Head to cherrybombe.com and get a few issues for yourself, and happy reading. Tell me about the menu. How is Jupiter's menu different from King's?
Jess Shadbolt:
Well, it doesn't change every day.
Kerry Diamond:
There are recipes?
Jess Shadbolt:
And there are recipes, yes, it's wild. It's been such a fascinating learning curve, seeing such a different approach to a restaurant in a really cool way as well. So the menu is inherently Italian, very much like our approach to that with a few nibbles that would encourage a spritz or something, and then into antipasto primi, secondi and then dessert. There are no surprises there either, although apparently there have been. No one liked the wet bottarga, which we conceded and I took that off, but-
Kerry Diamond:
Was that your baby?
Jess Shadbolt:
Cut me and I bleed bottarga. Actually, we serve that at King and people love it. It's just so interesting how it doesn't necessarily translate, because it's a different expectation when you walk into Jupiter than when you walk into King. It's just such a different approach in terms of we have an idea, we test a recipe, that was new to me, and then we retest it. Then it's all weighed out and somebody-
Kerry Diamond:
So the hiring must be different because down at King, you're hiring people who trust themselves. Here, you have to hire people who know how to follow a recipe.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yes, and I think that that's something that we are really trying to work on as well, because you do get the line cook that comes in and is just used to being told to drop and toss pasta and put out on a plate. That's perfect and great, and people can cook like that for their whole lives, but for those that are a little more curious and we've seen that, we are really trying to bring that kind of spirited cooking too. It's while you are following this recipe, and yes, the spaghetti needs to be in the water for eight minutes and then you toss it with this amount of sauce, I think we are really trying to find ways to get people excited about what that is and the why behind it. Yeah, it's been great.
Kerry Diamond:
What are some summer specials we can look forward to?
Jess Shadbolt:
Oh, summer specials. Have you had the pea and veal lasagna?
Kerry Diamond:
No.
Jess Shadbolt:
Oh, that's the little fresh tomato contenesca coming, 'cause that's like one of my favorites. We made it a little pea puree through it and the handkerchiefs are green pesto. What else? I don't know. Lots.
Kerry Diamond:
There's so much beautiful produce coming, so it's got to be-
Jess Shadbolt:
I know. I'm so excited-
Kerry Diamond:
... such a fun season for you. Let's go back a little bit. So you mentioned that you grew up with a mom who loved to cook and who was a very intuitive cook. Did anyone else cook in the family?
Jess Shadbolt:
Not in the same way that she did. My grandma Belle did and she was creative sometimes, not to say that all of her recipes were that dynamic, but she left us with the perfect recipe for a green soup. It's called Grandma Belle's ever-so-good-for-you green soup. So if anyone likes it, I should send it out into the world because it's so restorative.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, tell us what's in it.
Jess Shadbolt:
So she actually made it up because when I was younger, I didn't like my vegetables. So she created this soup, which has got loads of watercress and zucchini and peas and a little bit of potato and onion, and she sweats it. She puts a bit of cayenne pepper in it and whizzes it all up. But when she died, last year, or the year before I actually read the recipe at her funeral because I was like, "This recipe is so true to who she is." She was a huge supporter of me going to cooking school. So yeah, grandma Belle, legend.
Kerry Diamond:
The silver skirt that you wore-
Jess Shadbolt:
That was hers.
Kerry Diamond:
... in the issue, that was hers.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
I love it.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah, totally forgot that.
Kerry Diamond:
Was she a bit of a fashion plate?
Jess Shadbolt:
She was, and she actually made that skirt herself.
Kerry Diamond:
She made it-
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah, with Liberty material. I think it was probably in the 50s that she went and got the material. Actually, the elastic waist is like fraying. She did like to make her own clothes.
Kerry Diamond:
In case you're all like, "What are you talking about?" Go pick up the issue some Cherry Bombe, and you'll see Jess is wearing a silver skirt, a silver pleated skirt in some of the pictures.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yep.
Kerry Diamond:
... and that skirt belonged to her grandmother. You told me a funny story. Were you at boarding school or something?
Jess Shadbolt:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
They put you in charge of-
Jess Shadbolt:
Dining room prefect.
Kerry Diamond:
Dining room prefect. I was like, "I did not go to boarding school. What the heck is a dining room prefect."
Jess Shadbolt:
I don't even know these days, but yeah, maybe that's where this whole thing came from. But yeah, we had in each form or year group someone who was a spokesperson to the dining room committee to discuss the food offering and like, "We want more jacket potatoes or any chance of another salad bar?" So those kind of really important things. I think obviously it was important that we were eating good food even back then, and we were. To be fair to the school, the food was not bad.
Kerry Diamond:
But you had no idea you wanted to be a chef?
Jess Shadbolt:
No idea I wanted to be a chef really up until I was doing it. No, obviously was working L'Oreal.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell folks what you were doing. So L'Oreal, some of you might not know this, it's a giant company and owns lots of different brands like Lancôme. That was the brand that I worked for, and Jess?
Jess Shadbolt:
L'Oreal Professional Haircare.
Kerry Diamond:
What did you do for them?
Jess Shadbolt:
I started out as a PR intern and I loved it. It was a fantastic introduction to a corporate life. It felt a little bit glamorous, and it was great to work with all these creative hairdressers, which I do think there's a bit of a synergy between a hairdresser and a chef, but more on that later.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I've never heard anyone make that analogy.
Jess Shadbolt:
Oh, really? I feel like they are cut from the same cloth, only because there's this great creative energy and commitment to something that feels at times beyond and just really hardworking and pretty down to earth. So that's where it all started. But yeah, I was there and I loved it, and I was working on PR and events. It was a really great introduction to learning about communication and the creative side and thinking about obviously events. I still love doing that part of my job now. I was working there and thought I would hang out there for a bit longer, and then this job at The River Cafe became available.
Kerry Diamond:
Not in the kitchen?
Jess Shadbolt:
Not in the kitchen, no. But it was obviously looking after Ruthie Rogers and Rose Gray, who were the women who opened the restaurant, they needed someone to be there assistant whilst also looking after some bits of the cookbook and events and a little bit of everything. Even when I was at L'Oreal, I always thought one day I would grow up and have a deli in some rural part of England. An English deli is like nice cheeses and sliced meats and a lemon drizzle cake and grandma Belle's soup for sale. But that was probably as far as I thought I would go. So that intrigued me to go and work at The River Cafe 'cause I thought I could see how a food business can work. But also I loved the restaurant obviously, and I thought it'd be a great way to dip my toe into the thing.
Kerry Diamond:
So hopefully you all know about The River ... well, now you do 'cause Justice told you, know about The River Cafe, and it's on all of your bucket lists. I had the privilege of going once, and it just blew my mind in so many ways. It's a beautiful location. You've got that beautiful giant pink oven-
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah, wood oven.
Kerry Diamond:
... in the middle of the restaurant. Does the menu change every day?
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah, it does, and it's huge. I was back there not long ago and I hadn't quite remembered how long the menu was, but yeah, it really is faultless.
Kerry Diamond:
Sadly, Rose passed away.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Ruthie runs the restaurant today, and Ruthie has a fabulous podcast. If you haven't listened to Ruthie's podcast, I just find her to be one of the most inspiring people on the planet. I cannot imagine what it like was working for her.
Jess Shadbolt:
Both of them, it was so eye-opening. Actually, I worked for two great women in L'Oreal and they taught me a lot. But when I arrived at The River Cafe, I just saw these two women who were just so bold and strong in their desire and their intent to create something brilliant and they were unyielding. I was just like, "That is so empowering," and I'd never experienced that before. They were so passionate from the food to every element of that restaurant had been considered in such a way. They did it with such grace for the staff. There was such a emphasis on culture and community and treating people well. That was just, wow.
Kerry Diamond:
You put it so beautifully in the story. You said, "There's a sheer dedication to excellence at The River Cafe."
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah, it's been going for 35 years, I think, now. To this day, I still think those standards still remain, and it's done with such force and energy. It was impossible to not be swept up by it.
Kerry Diamond:
But similar to King, they had a tough time in the beginning. What The River Cafe was in the very, very beginning before you got there is not what people know as The River Cafe today.
Jess Shadbolt:
No, I think they had a burger on their menu when they opened-
Kerry Diamond:
Actually, I think they're making sandwiches and-
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah, sandwiches.
Kerry Diamond:
... didn't even know if they'd be around for very long. It was such a struggle-
Jess Shadbolt:
And it definitely grew in the space. I think someone needs to make a movie about it.
Kerry Diamond:
So you're working there as an assistant, you find yourself gravitating toward the kitchen.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah. I would more often than not get in the way I think in the kitchen most mornings. A lot of my job was liaising with the cooks and the chefs and obviously Ruthie and Rose. I just would spend the first two hours of my day talking to the chefs about whatever it is I needed to talk to. But whilst they were like threading ribbons of pasta through the machine or boning a leg of lamb or chopping betolli tomatoes for hours on end. I would stand there and be doing my work, but also watching what they were doing, and I found myself always trying to get into the kitchen. Obviously by that point I cooked a lot at home. I was always having dinner parties trying to cook for people. But yeah, I was fascinated by what was going on down there. So I said, "Could I come and hang out on Saturdays?" They were like, "Sure." So I would go in on a Saturday and prep artichokes or-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I missed this part. Okay-
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
I didn't know that.
Jess Shadbolt:
First time I did it, I got it wrong, 'cause I was told to prep 80 and I'd prepped 75, and that was a big issue 'cause we ran out.
Kerry Diamond:
Uh-oh.
Jess Shadbolt:
Anyway, I've never gotten over it, but-
Kerry Diamond:
Apologies to the five people who-
Jess Shadbolt:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
... did not get their artichokes.
Jess Shadbolt:
I would've eaten one too, so that could have been six. So I was doing that for a little bit. Then it had been five years at that point that I'd been working in the office and I absolutely loved the restaurant, but felt I needed to try a little something. So I said to Ruthie, "Do you mind if I go off for three months? I'd really like to go to this cooking school." She was like, "Of course," and I was like, "I'll be back. I'm not leaving." I went off to Ballymaloe. So she called me towards the end of the three-month period at Ballymaloe and was like, "Why don't you come back into the kitchen?" You can never say no to Ruthie. So I was like, "Sure."
Kerry Diamond:
Let's go back to Ballymaloe. So you are working at The River Cafe. You're hanging out in the kitchen, you notice something on the CVs of a lot of the chefs who were trying to find jobs.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah, Ballymaloe, and it had been slightly on my radar before I went to university I, at the time, wondered if I'd go, but for many reasons didn't get around to it. I loved the kind of approach to that cooking school. Ballymaloe is a rural farm in Cork. It is the first recipe you get taught is the recipe of compost, and Darina Allen is this incredible force. She really trail blazed this slow food movement in Ireland in the farmer's market. That was very much down to her work, and she is another incredible woman. Day one, she wields this wooden spoon at you and says, "With this, you can make anything that can take you so far. If you learn to cook, it's a great skill in the food world, not necessarily as a chef, but as a food stylist or a photographer. There are so many elements to it."
Anyway, so you go and learn how to make compost and then you go and plant some lettuces, and then from then on you are really part of the ecosystem of the farm. So each morning you either pick from the farm or you are making a stock or feeding the chickens, the compost that you are collecting throughout the day whilst you're prepping. Particularly coming from The River Cafe where there's such a emphasis on ingredients, it was great to go and think about that in terms of the land.
Kerry Diamond:
So you go there for three months, Ruthie figures out a way not to offend you by not bringing you back as her assistant. You wind up in the kitchen. All of your pals are all of a sudden your bosses. How is that?
Jess Shadbolt:
I was so aware of it. I was nervous about that aspect and wanted to very much respect the hierarchy. It's pretty flat at The River Cafe, the hierarchy. But yeah, I just wanted to put my head down and keep going. I was very brilliantly supported by them, and I'm very grateful for that. It made me just really want to do really well. I didn't want to let anyone down because the opportunity was so great.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's do the speed round. Jess. Ready?
Jess Shadbolt:
Okay. Go.
Kerry Diamond:
Coffee or tea? How do you take it?
Jess Shadbolt:
Oh, was a big tea drinker. Came to New York, obviously became a big coffee drinker, now back to tea. There's sober chai tea from Kettle and it's just incredible. If you can get it in the tea bags once it's been brewing for a while, if there's nothing in the cupboard, I have been known to snip off the top and eat the buckwheat as dinner.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
That's interesting.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah. Very good.
Kerry Diamond:
One of your favorite books on food.
Jess Shadbolt:
Oh, well, I mentioned "Honey From a Weed," obviously. The list is endless. "Roast, Chicken and Other Stories," obviously a real classic.
Kerry Diamond:
Best food movie?
Jess Shadbolt:
I love Nora Ephron, so can I say "Julie & Julia?" I think it's a good movie, right?
Kerry Diamond:
I love it. I love it. Even the people who-
Jess Shadbolt:
These are really basic answers.
Kerry Diamond:
No.
Jess Shadbolt:
How many people say "Julie & Julia," though?
Kerry Diamond:
Everyone says "Ratatouille."
Jess Shadbolt:
I love a rom-com, it gives you everything you want. Nora's fantastic. The story is just beautiful and-
Kerry Diamond:
Agreed. Agreed. Meryl Streep is-
Jess Shadbolt:
And Meryl, you know. Can't go wrong.
Kerry Diamond:
Julia Child and Stanley.
Jess Shadbolt:
I know, Stanley.
Kerry Diamond:
What are you streaming right now, if anything? I know you're working a lot.
Jess Shadbolt:
Nothing.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah.
Jess Shadbolt:
I'm terrible at that. I'm itching to watch season two of "The Bear."
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite kitchen tool?
Jess Shadbolt:
It has to be a pair of tongs and there's a very specific type from JB Prince, and they are weighted perfectly. We insist that they are in each of the kitchens because they are perfect.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. Now I feel like I have to up my tong game.
Jess Shadbolt:
So I know this is really boring, but I think there are little things that you can't do in a Robot Coupe. Robert and I are dear friends. We call him Robert-
Kerry Diamond:
You do?
Jess Shadbolt:
... in the kitchen.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. One thing that's always in your fridge?
Jess Shadbolt:
Normally a pot of beans that I've cooked.
Kerry Diamond:
Beans and greens?
Jess Shadbolt:
God, it's so boring. Yeah. Normally lentils because you don't have to soak them, so I cook them quite quickly. Then they sit in the saucepan in the fridge, and I graze throughout the week.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite childhood food?
Jess Shadbolt:
Grandma Belle's ever-so-good-for-you green soup.
Kerry Diamond:
Snack food of choice?
Jess Shadbolt:
I've got a real thing about the combination between unsalted and untoasted almonds and goji berries together in a handful. We're writing this book and it's just literally my constant snack.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, how interesting. What is it? It's the texture, it's-
Jess Shadbolt:
No, but like-
Kerry Diamond:
What are you loving about that?
Jess Shadbolt:
The combination of the flavor, it's like something really curious. It's like malty almost, which is weird.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, I need to try this when I get home.
Jess Shadbolt:
Okay.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. Footwear of choice in the kitchen?
Jess Shadbolt:
Oh, I don't know. Birks probably.
Kerry Diamond:
Any motto or mantra that you live by?
Jess Shadbolt:
Well, this isn't mine, but it's one of Ruthie's, which I always repeat, "Big party, small space."
Kerry Diamond:
What does that mean?
Jess Shadbolt:
Well, if you are a table of 10, you should be sitting on a table of eight, intimacy. I feel like at King we always want to have a big party, make it in a small space. It brings a real sense of atmosphere.
Kerry Diamond:
I love that, okay.
Jess Shadbolt:
But I can't take credit for that one.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Ruthie, we'll give her credit.
Jess Shadbolt:
But I do live by that.
Kerry Diamond:
If you were to be stuck on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Jess Shadbolt:
Oh, my Lord. Do they have to be a natural celebrity? Could it be a fellow cook, maybe.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us who are you're thinking.
Jess Shadbolt:
I have a great friend who taught me a lot, and he's a great chef and he's called James Fincham. I think that he is exceptionally practical, would definitely be able to build the hut, build the fire, sow some great ingredients. We have endless fun together. He's been at The River Cafe for 15 years, but we're great, great friends. I would be honored to be stuck on a desert island with him because he would make sure that we ate very well.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. We'll give you that one. I wasn't sure if you were going to say Darina or Ruthie. I couldn't imagine them together, but maybe-
Jess Shadbolt:
That would be quite a lot. I would love to watch that. Now that is a show. Put them on a desert island.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's pitch that.
Jess Shadbolt:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, Jess, I have loved getting to know you.
Jess Shadbolt:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Between the cover story and this, I hope this is just the first of many times we get to chat.
Jess Shadbolt:
I would love that too. Thank you so much for having us.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. If you are a longtime listener or maybe you're a new listener and you enjoyed this interview, subscribe to Radio Cherry Bombe on your favorite podcast platform, and don't miss a single episode. If you're an Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, wherever you listen, just click the little subscribe button and thank you in advance. If you missed last week's episode with Jess's partner, Annie Shi, be sure to check it out. Special thanks to OpenTable for sponsoring this episode of Radio Cherry Bombe and for partnering with us on the summer's four-city dinner series, Sit With Us. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazan is the studio engineer for Newsstand Studios. Our producer is Catherine Baker, and our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu. Thanks to you for listening. You are the Bombe.