Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
I don't even really let Justin, my husband, do the dishes. I'm so controlling in the kitchen. Now, I kind of wish that I had him set up that precedent because I'm tired of doing dishes.
Kerry Diamond:
Hey, Bombesquad. Welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe, the show that's all about women and food. I'm your host, Kerry Diamond. What's on today's menu? Two of the most fun people in food are swinging by: Jesse Tyler Ferguson and Julie Tanous, the buddies behind the new cookbook Food Between Friends. It's a blast of a book featuring their favorite recipes plus a pinch of Southwestern flavor from Jesse and a smidge of Julie's Southern flare. Stay tuned and learn how the modern family star and the big-hearted recipe developer went from strangers at a dinner party neither of them really wanted to be at to BFFs. I think in Hollywood, they might call that meet cute.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's thank today's sponsors, Crate & Barrel. I know the pinch me moments continue. I love Crate & Barrel and you probably do too. I'm a firm believer that every meal is a special occasion and Crate & Barrel has an incredible selection of beautiful modern pieces that will take anything you eat or drink up a notch. Thanks to the timeless design and terrific quality of their dinnerware, glassware and serving pieces. It doesn't matter if you're enjoying a home-cooked meal or having your favorite takeout in front of your laptop. Does that sound familiar? Anyway, it all feels way more festive on tabletop collections by Crate & Barrel.
Kerry Diamond:
You'll find so many great pieces at affordable prices. I just ordered a set of super chic martini glasses and they were just 6.95 a piece, just what I need to toast the Cherry Bombe event of the year, The Julia Jubilee. Crate & Barrel is a sponsor of our upcoming conference, so we'll be doing a lot of special events with them. Stay tuned. In the meantime, head over to crateandbarrel.com right now and have fun browsing and shopping. Speaking of The Julia Jubilee, be sure to head over to cherrybombe.com and RSVP. This way, you'll get all the news first about our virtual conference, which is dedicated to the life and legacy of Julia Child. You'll also get our virtual goody bag when the festivities are over.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. So many of you know our first guest, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. He entertained all of us for so many seasons on Modern Family. We talked Turkey literally, his love for hatch chilies and what he learned from our mutual friend, apron maker, Ellen Bennett, plus a lot more. Here's Jesse. When did your love affair with cooking begin?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
I have always loved eating as many people can relate to I'm sure, but I was never very ambitious in the kitchen because I didn't have lot of space. I cooked with my mom a little bit back home in Albuquerque, but when I was off on my own, I lived in very small apartments in New York City with shoe-box sized kitchens. I didn't have space to really create, so I just ate out a lot or if I did make something it was like heating up a Lean Cuisine. So, when I moved to L.A., I finally had a-
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, I have to stop you there. Did you really heat up Lean Cuisines?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Yes. The Teriyaki Chicken Lean Cuisines, I still stand by it. I ended up moving to L.A. and working in television and had more space here. You just get more for your money out here in L.A. And so when I finally had a real sized kitchen, I was like, "I'm going to cook more." So I started collecting cookbooks and just being more ambitious in the kitchen. And I remember on one of my press days for Modern Family, I was doing something with Martha Stewart and they were like, "You can cook with her. You don't have to just do crafts. It's sort of up to you." I was like, "Oh, no. Not only am I going to cook with Martha Stewart, but she's going to teach me how to make... " It was right around the holiday, so I was like, "She's going to teach me how to do a Thanksgiving turkey."
Kerry Diamond:
That's delicious.
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
I know. I was like, "If I... " Because I've always wanted to learn how to really grind a turkey and there's a million ways to skin that cat and I was like, "I want Martha's way." So, that year for Thanksgiving I tackled Thanksgiving dinner and I had Martha help me figure out how to do that. I have a framed photo of the two of us in my kitchen with a roast turkey in front of us. Kind of the most iconic photo you could possibly want with Martha Stewart is standing behind a perfectly brown turkey and I have that. So that was sort of…
Kerry Diamond:
Do you carry that through all facets of life like Elon Musk teaches you how to drive? Like Michael Jordan teaches you how to shoot a free throw?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Truly. I should just start outsourcing. I mean, people can say no, but might as well try.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. So Martha Stewart teaches you how to make a turkey and you take off from there?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
I just became more ambitious in the kitchen and I've always been a really good student. So following directions, I'm really good at. And actually worked to my disadvantage when I started creating recipes because it's like you have to sort of let that go and really trust your own palette and not use measuring cups as often as you might, if you were following a recipe and really experiments. But in the early days, I loved strict rules and now I'm sort of trying to get away from that.
Kerry Diamond:
How many cookbooks do you have in your collection today?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
I mean, I have four shelves that are full here in my kitchen. Then in my library, I have another five shelves of cookbooks that are the ones that I don't use a lot. I'm actually in the process of moving right now, so I'm purging a few of them and my mother-in-law took a whole bunch of them, but I have so many cookbooks. Today, I had…send me a cookbook that I already own of her. So I'm like, "Well, now I have copies of this one." So-
Kerry Diamond:
She reissued that one! That's a really good cookbook. Let's talk about you and Julie. I would love... I've known you both separately. I don't know how you two met. How did you get together?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
We actually met at a dinner party that neither one of us wanted to attend. It was a pop-up interactive dinner party where you found out the location of the pop-up that morning and there was interactive elements. There was a ukulele. There were questions on the bottom of your dinner plate that you're supposed to turn over your dinner plate and ask the person's to your right the question and get to know people and I was like, "No, this is not my jam." So I really did not want to go, but my friend, it was his event that he was sponsoring and he's a dear friend and I really wanted to support him. I was like, "I'm just going to go and so to see what this is."
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
And Julie was sort of equally as trepidatious. I'm sure she's going to tell her side of the story, but I ended up sitting at a very long table at the very end next to the exit. I had Justin on my right, my husband, our friend, Todd, across from him and then an empty chair in front of me. So I really felt like I was buffered and I didn't have to have awkward conversations with people. And I love meeting new people, but I was like, "I can't do the interactive dinner party thing."
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Anyway, right before dinner started, Julie sat down at the chair in front of me and I was like, "Oh no," but we ended up having the greatest conversation. I was like, "Oh, thank God. I mean, this is... " And it truly reminded me, I was like, "Listen, you got to branch out, meet people. Just because you're nervous that people are going to recognize you from being on TV and want to be friends with you for the wrong reasons, there are way more people who are just awesome new friends out there." And it was a good reminder that my friend circle can never be too small or too big rather-
Kerry Diamond:
[crosstalk 00:07:45]-
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
... and there's always room for more at the table. And Julia and I just became really good friends after that. So, I'm so happy I went to that party and so happy she took that seat.
Kerry Diamond:
Aww, I love that. You two had immediate chemistry, how did you find out you had culinary chemistry?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Yeah, that's something that we sort of had to discover on our own. It's always tricky when you're cooking with someone because I don't even really let Justin, my husband, do the dishes. I'm so controlling in the kitchen.
Kerry Diamond:
Wait. You cook-
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Now [crosstalk 00:08:16]-
Kerry Diamond:
... and you do the dishes?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
I do the dishes. Now, I kind of wish that I had him set up that precedent because I'm tired of doing dishes, but Julia had been to culinary school. I had always wanted to go to culinary school. We sort of started small and I said, "Can you just teach me how to dice an onion and teach me some simple knife skills?" I think that's how we started our relationship in the kitchen.
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
And once she sort of saw how I cooked and I saw how she cooked, we figured it out. It's a relationship like any relationship as you have to get to know one another. We do have a really good chemistry in the kitchen. And obviously when we're developing recipes together, it's nice having that other person to sort of bounce ideas off of. Unfortunately, we're both really indecisive, so we could sit there for 30 minutes tasting the same thing, asking one another, "I don't know. What do you think?"
Kerry Diamond:
Your cookbook, I'm going to hold it up again. Even though no one can see this, I'm going to hold up the cookbook just because I feel better holding it up. Food Between Friends, so it just came out, how did the idea for the cookbook come about?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Well, we had a blog that we were sort of housing some of our recipes that we were developing together on and Clarkson Potter, the publishing house, reached out to us actually and pitched us the idea of turning this blog into a cookbook. And really very few of the recipes from the blog actually made into the book. A few of them, if they have made into the book have been updated and we also went through growing pains. And some of the stuff that's on the blog, I mean, early days like, "Oh, my God, please don't look too closely at these recipes."
Kerry Diamond:
We glossed over the blog. So, you become friends, you start hanging out and cooking together. A blog is a huge commitment.
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
It is. We would try and meet at least once a week to develop recipes to put on the blog or we'd try and house them and have backstock of recipes we could slowly release. And the blog was called Julie and Jesse Cook. Don't ask me how he came up with that title. I know it's a stroke of genius, but it was sort of a fun hobby. We always dreamed of like, "Maybe we'll turn this into a cookbook one day." So when Clarkson Potter approached us, it was really that extra nudge of competence that we needed because neither one of us have ever published a book before. We're first-time authors. So, the fact that they had the faith in us to say, "No, we think that this could actually be something that's successful," was all that we needed.
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Some of the recipes I take ownership of and some Julie takes ownership of and some of them are recipes that we truly could not split up. Like they're both of ours, so we take joint ownership of. But the hard part about cooking, it's not just developing recipes, that you have to create stories around why these recipes are special to you. And that's just felt like non-stop homework for two years, non-stop writing assignments. Then when we turned the first draft in to our editor, Francis Lam, it's like we had additional writing assignments. It's like, "Oh, I think you could flesh this out more. These chapter intros could be written out a little clearer." So it's just non-stop homework.
Kerry Diamond:
One of the nice things about the book is I really... I think when I posted about the book on Instagram and I said, "You two are really the people you want to sit next to at a dinner party," so it's funny that you two met at a dinner party, but that spirit just of fun and friendship really comes through. I don't know. How did you get that magic to happen on the page that's not easy?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
It's tricky because you don't want the tone to shift either. I mean, it's two different perspectives. So, we shared writing with one another a lot and there was editing that we both suggested to one another. Julie, is such a great writer and she overwrites, like she'll send me three pages on butter. I'm like, "Okay, we could use a paragraph of this." So it was fun to sort of figure out how to disseminate sort of cohesive paragraph out of that. And also make it feel like when you're reading my head note and then the next page you read some of Julie's writing, that it doesn't feel like you're jumping in tone.
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
It took a lot of massaging to sort of create that. And that was really fun though as well. I mean, I've written essays for magazines and Julia was a first-time writer, so she was nervous to show me some of her writing. And I think once we developed trust with one another, it was easy for us to share and also be really honest with each other if we felt like we were veering off course.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell me what is the most Jesse of the recipes?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Probably the green chile chicken enchilada pot pie. That's a mouthful. I love green chile chicken enchiladas. It's probably my favorite dish that I grew up eating. I have a love-hate relationship with actual pie crust. I now know how to make it really well because Julie's coached me through it, but I did not always do a great job with the pie crust. So I ended up making a pot pie with corn tortillas, which really were my favorite part of an enchilada anyways. So, instead of having to actually roll out dough and parbake and all that stuff, you just use the tortilla add ins. Then-
Kerry Diamond:
That's brilliant.
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Yeah. So that's one of my favorite recipes in the book.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's great. What would you say is the most Julie of the recipes?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Oh, gosh! She's a really great baker. I would probably say either the yellow butter cake with chocolate fudge frosting or the crystal fried chicken.
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, what makes it crystal?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
She uses Crystal Hot Sauce to brine.
Kerry Diamond:
And what is the one recipe everybody has to make from the book?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Well, I'll tell you what I'm cooking a lot right now. It's the garlicky sorghum stir-fry that I just... Sorghum is something that I hadn't really ever known about. You could substitute molasses if you can't find it or you can order it online and get in your house in a day or two. But Justin asks me to make that for him probably weekly. We have that at least once a week and it's just really easy. I feel like the flavors are perfectly balanced and it's a really... I don't know. I feel like we developed that recipe together, so to me it feels a real triumph of our relationship.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I love it. Okay. I'm going to have to try that one. Okay. We have to give a shout out to Ellen Bennett because I feel like if Ellen knows I interviewed you and we don't mention her then I will be in trouble. I don't know if you'll be in trouble, but Ellen Bennett is the founder of Hedley & Bennett. She's a big member of the Bombesquad. You and I are members of her Apron Squad. I feel like everybody who knows Ellen learns something from Ellen, what would you say you've learned from Ellen?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Well, I got to read her book before it came out. I think it came out in April, but I got an advanced copy and I sometimes will text her after looking at our Instagram stories and be like, "Just please assure me that I don't have to do as much in a day as you do," because she gets so much done. And one of the mottos that she has it's, the bumps in the road are not bumps, they're part of the journey. So, I take that from her. Also I'm so inspired by how she took a very small idea and turned it into a huge business. It just reminds me that there are no bad ideas and things take time.
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
I mean, the thing I love about her book that I can't wait for people to read is that she's really brutally honest about how hard it is to start a business. It's just nice to be reminded that creativity is not meant to be easy and it's okay to have those stumbles and her honesty is something I really appreciate. I can't wait for people to read her story because I think it's really inspirational. It's a great confidence boost to just see how someone took a dream and made it a reality and she's just a very inspiring person.
Kerry Diamond:
She is the queen of the pep talk. Absolutely. My favorite is I think she has a saying, if the door is closed to you, jump through the window. I really love that one. Okay. Jesse, we have a little speed round, but first I am so taken with your kitchen. I need to ask you just a few kitchen organization questions. Now, I see you have your magnetic knife strip, how many... You have a lot of knives.
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
I actually had more because Chrissy Teigen sent me her set and I was in quarantine and I didn't have time, my knives were all so sharp... So dull rather that Chrissy Teigen sent me her set and I was like, "Oh, perfect. Sharp knives." So I had those up as well. I finally just got them sharpened at the farmer's market and I put a set away so that I can pull those out when these ones go dull. I'm trying to be good and sharpen them regularly so I can stay on top of them, but I just... It's like flossing, you just forget.
Kerry Diamond:
That is true. All right. Tell me about those open shelves. So you're an open shelf person as opposed to hideaway in a pantry?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
That's something the kitchen already had and I kind of love that it's hidden away enough, so it's not like it's not too cluttered, but if you go on the side, you can see that it's a bit of a mess. Then in this store here there's an amazing spice drawer and it's all organized and [inaudible 00:17:30].
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, glad. I'm so jealous of the flat spice draw.
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Draw!!
Kerry Diamond:
I said draw like a New Yorker, drawer. And are you a Lazy Susan person or do I see Lazy Susans there? Everything's just-
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
That's just a cutting board or a charcuterie platter that my mother-in-law gave me. I just like putting my oil and stuff on that. I do have a lazy Susan up in there with a lot of oils and there's a Worcestershire sauce. So how do you say? Worcestershire sauce?
Kerry Diamond:
This is a tough pronunciation episode, Worcestershire. Oh, no. Now that you say that, I'm going to find out on YouTube. Well, lazy Susans are game changers. Let's do a little speed round. Since you told us you collect cookbooks, what is, doesn't have to be your favorite, but a treasured cookbook from your collection?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Well, and actually I would never cook from it, but Justin's mother gave me a copy of the Simi Valley Preschool cookbook that Justin was a part of and the recipes are so cute. It doesn't really tell you how to make things. It's basically kids explaining how their mom makes stuff and it's like she puts the macaroni in the pot and then puts it in a bowl and then not eat it and it's just so adorable. So, it's probably my favorite cookbook on the shelf, but again, not very practical.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, what was Justin's recipe?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
I think his was actually macaroni and cheese.
Kerry Diamond:
What is your most used kitchen tool?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
I use my zester a lot.
Kerry Diamond:
A lil’ microplane?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Lil’ microplane, yeah. We actually call for lemons and limes a lot in our cookbook for dressings and marinades and you can also use it for commerce on cheese and our cheeses. So, it's actually in our kitchen tools at the beginning of the book, which I wasn't sure if I was going to add to the book, but then I ended up finding it to be kind of useful. It's one of the things that we [crosstalk 00:19:24]-
Kerry Diamond:
It's fun. I think I picked this up on Instagram, but somebody had a game-changing trick for zesting ginger. You freeze the ginger.
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Thank you for telling me that because ginger, when I see that you need to zest ginger, I just get really angry and stressed out about it. I just find it to be so hard and [inaudible 00:19:42] the jars of the pre-minced ginger, but I will try freezing it. That's a good idea.
Kerry Diamond:
That's definitely a game changer. Okay. What was your last pantry purchase?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
More Hatch green chilies in cans because I'm doing a cooking demo later and I need it. [inaudible 00:19:59] my Hatch green chili.
Kerry Diamond:
What is a song you love to cook to?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
I love Betty Carter. I just love jazz music. And she's my go-to artist right now.
Kerry Diamond:
Love it. What is the oldest thing in your fridge?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
I'm really bad about throwing away stuff after an expiration date. Probably some pickles in the back of the refrigerator that could use a toss.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. So last question, aside from Julie and Justin and Ellen and Francis, who would a dream kitchen partner be? If you could cook with anybody, who would you love to cook with?
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
I actually think it's happening soon and I think it's going to be Chrissy Teigen. I think we're going to Instagram Live it.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, fun.
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
And she's a friend, but I've actually never cooked with her. And she's just always obviously a really good time, so-
Kerry Diamond:
Chrissy is the best. Well, Jesse, thank you for your time and thank you for putting this really fun cookbook out into the world. I can't wait to cook from it and I wish you tons of success with it.
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
Thank you so much for having me. This has been great.
Kerry Diamond:
Jesse, as we always say, you're the Bombe.
Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
You're the Bombe!
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. So I watched a few YouTube videos and it's Worcestershire. And if I'm still mispronouncing it, email me at radio@cherrybombe.com. Now, let's check in with Julie Tanous. First off, congratulations. I know yesterday was pub day.
Julie Tanous:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
What a big deal for you. I mean, you went to culinary school, you're the culinary professional in this relationship. It must've been a dream to have a cookbook, so congrats.
Julie Tanous:
Oh, thank you so much. This week has been a dream truly and just overwhelming in the best way.
Kerry Diamond:
You and I've only met a handful of times, but you are one of the nicest people on the planet. I'm barely confused. So I'm sure your circle of family and friends and just people who love you must be thrilled.
Julie Tanous:
Thank you. They are, especially my mom. Number one fan. She gets on our Food Between Friends account. She just constantly heart eye emoji, loves everything. She's such a big fan.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's so sweet. I love that. All right. Let's get into the questions. Jesse, told us about the party where you two met. And what I learned from reading your cookbook is that you were suffering from postpartum depression and your husband suggested you attend the party, did you go all by yourself?
Julie Tanous:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow.
Julie Tanous:
I know. I can't believe I did it. Josephine, was my first and I think she was six or seven months old. I was still in the pits. I mean, it was hard for me to even just go on my front porch. My therapist was like, "Just go stand outside and get sunshine on your face," and it was so hard for me to do. So to go to this party... When I bought the ticket, you bought it a month in advance and then the day or the day before you find out the details, like where it's going to be. It was in downtown L.A. I live on the West side of L.A., so that's a two-hour Uber drive and then Will couldn't go with me and so I didn't have my security.
Julie Tanous:
I got to the party and it was Southern-themed and it was these two chefs from Atlanta. So I thought, "Oh, okay. I'll hang." There was an old fashion bar and then a Royal Oyster Bar and some banjo and ukulele playing. I remember seeing Jesse from across the room and I was like, "Oh, okay. This seems a cool party. I'll hang for a minute." So, went by myself. I can't believe it. It's a nice reminder in talking to people and telling people these stories to just step out of your comfort zone and put yourself out there because the universe will hopefully reward you.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, in this case, it definitely did, but you [crosstalk 00:24:02] were brave enough to plop yourself next to a celebrity. And I was reading the story and I was like, "Oh, my gosh!" Because sometimes we all know this celebrities don't want to talk to civilians. What made you take that chance?
Julie Tanous:
I would hardly call it brave. It was the last seat left. Jesse, came with his husband and their friend and then there was this empty seat, "Damn it! No one's sitting in the seat next to the celebrity, I guess I'll have to do it." So, I plopped down and thought, "How do I start talking to these people?" And I made the joke like, "Well, I have renamed this dinner Spring Street Social anxiety." And Jesse laughed and I was like, "Okay, I just made this one of the funniest actors in the business laugh." So, my confidence was kicked off a little.
Kerry Diamond:
That is funny. And just so folks know, the Spring Street Social was the name of the group that put on these parties. And Julie, you don't know this, but Cherry Bombe used to share an office with them on the lower East side.
Julie Tanous:
Oh, so you knew Amy, Virginia and [crosstalk 00:25:11]-
Kerry Diamond:
All of them. So funny. I love that's how you and Jesse got to know each other. I also laughed because it's kind of how you and I met. We were at a dinner party and didn't know everybody and sat next to each other and had a great time. All right. So how did you two start cooking together? Because not all friendships progress in that direction. Some friends go to bars, they go to restaurants, they don't always go together.
Julie Tanous:
Yeah. So that night, I mean, it truly was love at first sight. I know that sounds crazy, but I think I started telling Jesse about... I was telling him about my story and we both loved Hedley & Bennett aprons. So we started finding that we had this shared love of food and I must have had a few cocktails because I started telling him about this cookbook idea. He comes, he moves his chair and sits by me and we start talking about it and he puts his contact information in my phone with his address and everything. So he clearly trusted me and-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, he's a good guy.
Julie Tanous:
Yeah. And he the next day called his agent and set a meeting up for us. So, we went to meet her and she was very so helpful and honest. She said-
Kerry Diamond:
I thought you were going to say she was very like, "Who is this person?"
Julie Tanous:
That too, "Who's this girl? What are you doing, Jesse?" She said, "This idea feels like a Julie idea that Jesse is curating. I think you two should go spend some time in the kitchen together." Very good advice. So we did and it was just really for fun. We cooked for each other, we cooked for our families, we would have some dinner parties. We started posting photos on Instagram and we got a lot of positive feedback and people were asking for recipes. Then we were like, "Let's put these online on a... Should we start a food blog? How does that work?"
Kerry Diamond:
It's like getting married, starting a blog together.
Julie Tanous:
Yes. A registry or...
Kerry Diamond:
Exactly. All right. We're going to go back a little bit even earlier because you, as I think I alluded to you, have had a very different food route than Jesse because you were a culinary school grad. I want you to take us back to those days, what were you doing pre-culinary school?
Julie Tanous:
I moved to D.C. and then I was there for a few years and working at the Motion Picture Association then wanted to shift over into music and moved to New York and where I met my husband. And while Will and I were dating, it was the winter and he was walking our dog. We'd already moved in together. So Will slipped and fell walking our dog on some black ice and had a terrible... Like broke his leg. And he works in media and music too, so a lot of his job is dinners and concerts with journalist and he couldn't leave the apartment for months.
Julie Tanous:
And of course here was living in New York and I was exposed to the most amazing food I'd ever had within blocks from me. So I told Will, "I'll start cooking. Just have them come here." So, I kind of turned our kitchen into a restaurant and I started cooking for him and it was therapy for me. It made me so happy to cook and to teach myself and to feed people. For about a year, I just started taking recreational cooking classes. I went to ICE, the Institute of Culinary Education and I took classes there. I took classes like Haven's Kitchen. Anywhere I could find a cooking class, I was taking it. I thought for a while, "Maybe I want to do food PR.
Julie Tanous:
And one of my best friends and spiritual advisors/mentors really made me realize that it was food that I loved doing. And it was hard because I was used to being in publicity and being behind the scenes and then all of a sudden I'm going to go to culinary school and I didn't know what I wanted to do, but it was very hard to make that shift. Then once I started culinary school, it was just... I scored 100 on every test. I was voted most likely to succeed on graduation night. I mean, I nerded out. It was the best school I've ever had. I wish I could have stayed for three years. It was amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's amazing. So, were there inklings of this when you were a child? Did you love cooking at home?
Julie Tanous:
Well, I did. I think part of me was not even going to attempt to compete with my Aunt Irma and my great Aunt Maddie and all these amazing cooks in my family. There was also a part of me that felt like I wouldn't be taken seriously as a woman in the kitchen. And the role of women has changed in the kitchen. There's so many more opportunities now, but I felt like, "No, I need to move to D.C. and put on a power suit to be taken seriously." I just thought that's what I needed to do as a woman. So I did not grow up cooking. I did grow up eating everything though. I think my aunt taught me to shuck raw oysters at age six or something.
Kerry Diamond:
Good skill as a child. I wish my nieces and nephews knew how to shuck oysters. I would put them to work. Julie, what was your first official job in the industry?
Julie Tanous:
While I was in culinary school, I went to work at a butcher shop. So I would leave culinary school. It was Dickson's in the Chelsea Market, which was really funny because I would come home covered in blood. It was like a scene out of so I married... It was that movie so I married an ax murder. My dog loved me so much. Then after culinary school, I went to suburb for a bit in the test kitchen and then we moved to L.A. and I started private cheffing when we got here. I didn't know anyone out here in the food world.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. Okay. That's so much I didn't know about you. Incredible. Let's jump ahead to the cookbook. So, it's so interesting because so much of the book is you melding your Southern background with Jesse's Southwestern one. Are there any ingredients he taught you to love?
Julie Tanous:
Definitely Hatch green chilies. I had never heard of them or have them. I think he also just helped me up my spice level. A lot of times we were developing and I was like, "Ooh, this is spicy," and Jesse would think it wasn't spicy enough. I love a tangy vinegary spice. So I would say, any heat and chillies.
Kerry Diamond:
And what was your biggest culinary influence on Jesse?
Julie Tanous:
Probably I think I helped him overcome his fear of making pie crust.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, I did touch that in the book a few times. What was the issue with the pie crust?
Julie Tanous:
It's intimidating to do pie crust and just the secret to me is just not overworking it and you have to feel confident. So, he had an episode once where he was just tears covered in flour, his husband, Justin, [inaudible 00:32:55] and he was like, "What is wrong with you? It's just pie crust." But a bad day in the kitchen is a bad day.
Kerry Diamond:
Right. And the pie crust is just the beginning of the journey. Whenever you're [crosstalk 00:33:07] that's not going right, you're sort of... It's not a good start when that's not going [crosstalk 00:33:12]. Okay. I have a newlywed type question and no cheating. So if you and Jesse discussed this, tell me.
Julie Tanous:
We haven't.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, good. We asked Jesse what the most Julie recipe in the book was and we asked him what the most Jesse recipe was, do you want to guess what he said?
Julie Tanous:
Oh, I bet he said the yellow cake for me. Did he?
Kerry Diamond:
Ding, ding, ding. Correct. Why is that the most Julie recipe?
Julie Tanous:
Because it's sweet. It's cake, there's butter. It also was inspired by my great aunt. Her cake, she did a boiled fudge frosting. So, I really wanted to do this boiled fudge frosting, but it works better as a pour over like on a Texas sheet cake or any sheet cake. And this was a double layer cake and it just wasn't working and the top layer slides off. We got on a call and one of our recipe testers who's an excellent baker. We were having this discussion and Jesse goes, "If you two can't figure this out, there's no way I'm going to even try the... " So, I turned the frosting into... I kept that rich fudginess, but it's sort of a buttercream style that's-
Kerry Diamond:
Like an American buttercream?
Julie Tanous:
Yeah. And it's got a little espresso in it and it's really rich, but I think it works with the yellow cake, which is just nice and buttery. Then you've got that rich fudge frosting.
Kerry Diamond:
Mm-hmm. I love an American buttercream, but I never heard of a boiled fudge frosting. How does that work?
Julie Tanous:
I think it's a very old-fashioned recipe and it's one of those it's on the box on the back of a lot of old cocoa powder boxes, but you've got to get the fudge to... It's like making fudge. You've got to get it to a certain temperature and then you've got to keep whisking and whisking and then as it sits it hardens, so it's a crispy crackle frosting. It is delicious. I'm determined to put it, book number two.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. So what do you think he said is the most Jesse recipe?
Julie Tanous:
I bet he said the green chicken chili enchilada pot pie. We had an interview with Padma yesterday and she said, "You keep talking about this thing." It's delicious.
Kerry Diamond:
Why does he love that? Well, I mean, he told us, but to you, why is that the most Jesse?
Julie Tanous:
Well, for a couple of reasons. I remember the night he texted me, he goes, "I made this thing. I made some green chili sauce. It's delicious. I started layering it with cheese." Then I said, "Oh, my God! Let's make a pot pie." And we already had a couple of pie crusts, so we decided to do the tortilla layering. So I think it is so delicious. I think it's the perfect... It's a great example of a hybrid of our two, what we bring to the table. It reminds him of his days working at Sadie's in Albuquerque. And it's a pie. It's in a pie plate.
Kerry Diamond:
What recipe is a good weekend project?
Julie Tanous:
I would probably say the strawberry pretzel semifreddo because it does need to sit overnight. Most of our recipes are pretty... Even the marinades that stay up to overnight, you could let it marinate for a few hours, but that one has to sit overnight because it's like an ice cream. And I try to reserve ice cream for my kids on the weekends, so I feel like that's a good Friday or Saturday night project that you can then enjoy over the weekend. And it is [crosstalk 00:37:11]-
Kerry Diamond:
That's fun. And since it's a semifreddo, you don't need an ice cream machine?
Julie Tanous:
No. Mm-mm. Yeah. We didn't want to call for a lot of fancy equipment or ingredients. We wanted to keep it pretty approachable with the exception of a waffle maker because Jesse developed some insane waffles. So I was like, "Fine. We'll put the waffle maker in."
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's good to know. All right. I have to ask you about a recipe that I saw on your website because it blew my mind, chocolate corn bread with buttermilk frosting. Okay. Why did I not know that you could combine corn bread and chocolate?
Julie Tanous:
Who said? Ben Franklin, necessity is the mother of invention or something? I made this during the middle of the shutdown, the pandemic, because I could not find flower anywhere and I wanted a chocolate cake. So I was like, "I'll make chocolate corn bread." And I always use buttermilk. And so then I was like, "Hmm, I'll just make a buttermilk frosting too." I need to revisit that and-
Kerry Diamond:
Had you ever had chocolate corn bread before?
Julie Tanous:
No. I was like, "I'm just going to try this thing." It was-
Kerry Diamond:
So interesting because I've had... I mean, obviously I've had a ton of corn bread and sweet corn bread versus not sweet corn bread and I do like pieces of corn and corn bread and sometimes you get chillies and corn bread or something, but usually savory corn bread. I just never thought of using it as the base for a frosted cake.
Julie Tanous:
It's funny you say that because we do have a corn bread recipe in the book. My dad is anti-sugar in his corn bread. So I'm also. There's no sugar in our corn bread recipe, but I was like, "But if you're going for a chocolate corn bread, just lean into making it a dessert." So, no, I don't put sugar in my regular corn bread.
Kerry Diamond:
If you tweak that recipe at all, tell me because I'm dying to try that.
Julie Tanous:
I will.
Kerry Diamond:
Since we're on the topic of sweet corn bread versus not too sweet corn bread, how about sweet tea? I saw there was a sweet tea recipe in there.
Julie Tanous:
Yes. Growing up my best friend's mom made my favorite sweet tea and every year for my birthday, she would give me a pitcher and tie a ribbon around it. So, I texted her for the recipe and I made it and I have not had sweet tea in so many years that I was like, "Oh, my God!" Will doesn't like sweet tea, he likes unsweet tea. So I had to reduce the sugar a bit. Then I added a little baking soda because it helped the tannins.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Let's do a speed round. A treasured cookbook from your collection and why?
Julie Tanous:
Definitely this book called Treasures from Heaven. It was created by the United Methodist Women's group in my hometown. It feels like every recipe in it is named after someone. It's like Mary's Hamburger delight, you know, Glenda's one pot chili. It's so special. I was raised in the Methodist Church and there was always food. It was fellowship, love and food.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Most is your most used kitchen tool?
Julie Tanous:
Probably my hands.
Kerry Diamond:
Good one.
Julie Tanous:
Yeah. Also this spatula that is unbranded that I got when I went to culinary school, but it is still holding up and it's my favorite spatula to use.
Kerry Diamond:
Excellent. Last pantry purchase?
Julie Tanous:
Pirate Booty for my kids and myself.
Kerry Diamond:
What's a song you love to cook to?
Julie Tanous:
Anything by John Coltrane.
Kerry Diamond:
What's the oldest thing in your fridge?
Julie Tanous:
A box of baking soda. Isn't that supposed to take the odor out?
Kerry Diamond:
It is, but you're supposed to put the date on it and then replace [crosstalk 00:41:15]-
Julie Tanous:
Yeah. I think mine's at 10 years old.
Kerry Diamond:
Aside from Jesse and your husband, who would you love to cook with in the kitchen one day?
Julie Tanous:
Oh, my God! That's so hard. I'm going to say Willie Nelson.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, wow. That's a great one. Okay. Why Willie?
Julie Tanous:
Oh, a number of reasons. I probably shouldn't say on the radio.
Kerry Diamond:
What do we think Willie does? Or do we think he just hangs out and sings?
Julie Tanous:
He doesn't have to cook. I'll just cook for him and he could just peek and sing while I cook for him.
Kerry Diamond:
I absolutely love that. Well, Julie, congratulations. I mean Food Between Friends is such a fun cookbook.
Julie Tanous:
Thank you. It is an honor to chat with you.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, congrats again. You're the Bombe, Julie.
Julie Tanous:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you so much to Julia and Jesse. Their new cookbook, Food Between Friends, is out now and there is a party between those pages. Pick up a copy at your favorite bookstore. A big thank you to the folks at Crate & Barrel for making today's show possible. Radio Cherry Bombe is produced by Cherry Bombe Media. This episode was edited and engineered by the one and only, Jenna Sadhu. Thank you for listening everybody. You are the Bombe.
Harry from When Harry Met Sally:
I'll have what she is having.