Johnnie Boden Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine. Today is the final episode of our Fashion Plate mini-series presented by our friends at Boden. Over the past few Wednesdays, I've talked to some of my favorite folks at the intersection of food and fashion about how they bring taste and style to everything they do. I chatted with culinary creatives Zaynab Issa and Romilly Newman, and with mother-daughter cookbook authors Trudy Crane and Chloé Crane-LaRoux. If you missed any of these episodes, please go back and give a listen.
Today I'm talking to Boden founder Johnnie Boden. Boden has graciously supported our series. We did a really fun dinner with them last week at Lord’s in New York City, and it's been a blast getting to know Johnnie. He and his team have built one of the most successful British fashion brands around and he talks about entrepreneurship in a really unique way. I wanted him to share his story with all of you because I know there are so many business owners out there in our audience. I've learned a lot from his advice and candor about his own experience, and I am sure you will too. Also, Johnnie's built a brand that is all about color and joy, something a lot of us aspire to. Stay tuned for our chat. Our interview was recorded at Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City.
Early bird tickets are now on sale for Jubilee 2025 which is taking place in Manhattan at the Glass House, a brand new location, very exciting, on Saturday, April 12th. Jubilee is a wonderful day of community and connection, and we would love to see you there. Also, we're hosting our very first Jubilee Wine Country at the beautiful Solage Resort in Calistoga, California on October 26th and 27th. Join me, Dominique Crenn, Jeni Britton, Tonya Holland, and lots of other amazing folks for what is going to be an incredible weekend of food, drink, and of course wine. For more information or to purchase tickets, visit cherrybombe.com.
Now let's hear from today's guest, Johnnie Boden. Welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Johnnie Boden:
Good morning. Good morning.
Kerry Diamond:
How are you?
Johnnie Boden:
I'm very well. A bit sleepless. Lovely dinner in the West Village last night.
Kerry Diamond:
And you and I are both a little jet-lagged.
Johnnie Boden:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
You are here from London. I just flew in from Milan.
Johnnie Boden:
Very exotic. Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
My life's not so jet-set as yours maybe.
Johnnie Boden:
No, it isn't. Mine is really very humdrum actually. Everybody imagines that designing clothes is you spend your life with beautiful people going to lovely shows, and in fact, you spend most of your time in flea markets and looking at numbers and dealing with people who I've annoyed.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, we're about to find out more about all of that. Okay, so Johnnie, I want to start. You are a big believer in throwing yourself at life. What does that mean?
Johnnie Boden:
I think throwing yourself at life is largely about being comfortable with taking risks, and I think you get most out of life the more risks you take. Taking risks is largely about not being scared what other people think of you. I think that's the thing that holds most people back and certainly held me back is, "Oh, I can't do that because what would my father say or what would my friend say?" But once you can get over that, life has more opportunities.
Kerry Diamond:
That's so interesting. So you think it's more the fear of what other people think of you versus the risk of failure?
Johnnie Boden:
Yes. Well, in my case, I've never really been scared of failing. I've worried much more about how I will be judged and what people will say about me behind my back.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Okay. Spoiler alert, we are going to talk about failure and fear of failure, because you have no fear of failure, but we'll talk about that in a bit. You did though throw yourself at life at a young age. I was so fascinated, but I'd worked in fashion magazines for years. You were even a teenage fashion editor at Harper's and Queen Magazine.
Johnnie Boden:
Correct. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
You organized parties at university. Did you not pursue a creative path because of what you just told us?
Johnnie Boden:
My father was a very dominating character, and I had no creative training, and I remember when I did this article piece for Harper's and Queen, I was so excited. I'd been given 20 pounds, which is a huge amount of money, $30, 40 years ago. And my father, I told him about it. He said, "That's a bloody stupid job." I was far too in awe of him and my mother to do my own thing at that stage.
Kerry Diamond:
You did wind up pursuing a career in the financial world.
Johnnie Boden:
Yes, correct. Very close to here.
Kerry Diamond:
Where were you?
Johnnie Boden:
It was so awful. My career and the whole experience was, I was so bad at it. I've forgotten, it was on sixth Avenue, but I used to come have lunch here and I was really, really bad at it and I really didn't enjoy it. In many ways it was a waste, but in other ways it made me realize what I shouldn't do.
Kerry Diamond:
How did you wind up in New York?
Johnnie Boden:
New York for any young British person in the eighties was the most exciting place. We'd had Wall Street, there was Madonna, it was all very glamorous and everybody wanted to work in New York, and it was really exciting to be here. Unfortunately, it's hard being in a city where you don't like your job, but apart from that, I absolutely loved it here.
Kerry Diamond:
The Brits took over media.
Johnnie Boden:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Ann Wintour, Tina Brown, everybody.
Johnnie Boden:
Yes. I wasn't thinking about that world when I was here, but I had loads of friends and it was great.
Kerry Diamond:
And good memories of New York or was the career so depressing?
Johnnie Boden:
No, actually I bought a lot of vinyl and I also, soon after I came back, I set up a record label and I tried to create a track based on using samples of tracks that I'd heard in clubs here. My children tease me, and say "Dad, you're so tragic," and you were trying to be down with the kids and I pretend I would go and see Todd Terry in the Bronx. Todd Terry was his great DJ. I love that world actually, and it helped me escape from the financial world that I wasn't very good at.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you love house music?
Johnnie Boden:
I mean, I love everything.
Kerry Diamond:
So when you say house music, was it like Stone Roses, things like that?
Johnnie Boden:
No, this was Chicago, the start of post-disco dance music. Todd Terry was the guy who got it going. It was electric dance music that had started in Chicago and came to New York.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, so you were serious.
Johnnie Boden:
I was quite serious.
Kerry Diamond:
Did I read correctly that you owned a few bars?
Johnnie Boden:
I worked in a bar. So my career, my unsuccessful financial career ended when I was left some money unexpectedly by my uncle who died and I went back to England with no clear idea what to do, although I had an idea of setting up a clothing business, but one of the other ideas I had was to run a bar and I worked in a bar for about a year. I didn't enjoy it very much. I found the hours too punishing and also staff. I had problems with theft. It wasn't quite right. It didn't take tick enough boxes, but there were lots I enjoyed about it.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, well hospitality, world's loss, but fashion world's gain. Your wife Sophie gave you a serious nudge and that resulted in Boden.
Johnnie Boden:
Correct.
Kerry Diamond:
Take us back to that conversation.
Johnnie Boden:
So I was very, very lucky in my life. I had a extraordinarily good education. I went to famous school, I had called Eton, University of Oxford, and I had really had so many privileges and there I was, I'd failed in the city. I failed as a teacher. I failed running a bar and I met this lovely girl, Sophie, who is now my wife. Rather romantically, I met her at a party and I realized after 20 minutes that she was the one, it took her a bit longer.
Kerry Diamond:
The one as in the one you wanted to marry?
Johnnie Boden:
Yeah, she was attractive and funny, made me laugh a lot. I took her back to her car and I said, "Can you give me your telephone number?" And she said, "Find it yourself," which was quite punchy.
Kerry Diamond:
And did you?
Johnnie Boden:
Anyway, I did find it. I waited three days before I rang her and I rang her up and I said, "Oh, hi, it's Johnnie," and she said, "You've taken your time," which was quite impressive. She was quite punchy. Anyway, in the similar vein, she said to me a couple of months in, she said, "You've had this extraordinary start in life and you're a failure really." And I said, "Well, I've got this idea of setting up a clothing business." And she said, "Well, if you don't do it, I'll leave you." And I never looked back. I never looked back actually. She's been unbelievably supportive.
Kerry Diamond:
That seems to me like such a giant leap to go from not having worked in fashion except for your teenage editor experience to launching a brand.
Johnnie Boden:
Yes. It's a very good point. What you have to remember was that I was unemployable. I'd exhausted everything. There was no way anybody would've taken me because they wouldn't take me seriously. And I had this idea when I was working in my financial job in the city. It wasn't actually Wall Street, it was Midtown just close to here, and I noticed my colleagues were buying lots of clothes from catalogs. In the UK there were no catalogs. There was a company called Next, and that was it. There were no upmarket companies selling clothes.
I thought this was a good idea. I failed in the city, I'd failed running a bar, as a teacher, and I was in the Last Chance Saloon. What persuaded me that it was possible was that I went to talk to lots of people who sell up their own businesses and I said, "Can I sell out my own business?" And they said, yes. I realize you don't have to be a genius to sell out your own business. All it takes is huge, huge energy and commitment and a goodish idea. You need to listen to your customer and listen to other people, the right people. Frankly, from the moment I set it up, I've never looked back and I've had huge problems and dramas along the way. There were always customers for it, for the product, which is great.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you know how to sketch? Did you know how to take a design?
Johnnie Boden:
No. I did all of that. I learned a bit about everything. But the extraordinary thing that always surprised me was how easy it was to extract information out of people. My parents had many faults, but they had many qualities and the thing that I learned above all from them was how to say please and how to say thank you. And if you can approach people in the right way, people will tell you about anything, literally anything, and I would meet people in funny bars who had had a friend who'd worked for a factory. Then the other key step was finding a couple of really good people and they then knew other people. If you find a good person to work with, it's a kind of exponential benefit because good people attract other good people and they know good factories, and so that was the key thing, finding really good people.
Kerry Diamond:
We'll be right back with today's guest. The fall issue of Cherry Bombe's print magazine is finally here and guess who our cover star is? It's Jeni Britton of Jeni's Splendid Ice Creams, the artisanal ice cream company that changed the game. This might just be our coolest cover yet, and it can't wait for you to read all about Jenny and her entrepreneurial journey. Also, we have a bonus cover. It's the delightful Abi Balingit of the Dusky Kitchen and the award-winning cookbook “Mayumu.” This issue is dedicated to the creative class and highlights innovative and imaginative folks in and around the world of food, including fashion designers, artists, photographers, and of course lots of pastry chefs. If you're a subscriber, your copy will be in your mailbox very soon. If you aren't a subscriber, head to cherrybombe.com to snag a copy or check out our list of retailers to find Cherry Bombe's print magazine at a store near you.
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi, peeps. It's Jessie Sheehan, the host of She's my Cherry Pie the Baking podcast from The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I have big news for you. My new cookbook, “Salty, Cheesy, Herby, Crispy, Snackable Bakes” is out now. This is my first savory baking book and I'm so excited to share it with all of you. It features a hundred easy peasy baking recipes for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and of course snacking. From sage butter scones to smash burger hand pies and tomato Za’atar galette. You'll also find six of my essential savory baking hacks, including how to make my magic melted butter pie dough and the quickest and easiest caramelized onions. My cookbook tour is underway and tickets are on sale right now at cherrybombe.com. Thanks to everyone who joined me in New York and San Francisco. I'll be in Chicago on Tuesday, October 15th and Boston on Wednesday, October 23rd, and I can't wait to see you. Thank you to Kerrygold and King Arthur Baking company for supporting my tour. You can click the link in the show notes of this episode to order the book or pick up a copy at your favorite local bookstore. I hope you love “Salty, Cheesy, Herby, Crispy, Snackable Bakes” as much as I loved writing it.
Kerry Diamond:
When and why did you launch the women's side of the business?
Johnnie Boden:
Well, we started primarily, in fact, entirely men's wear, and then I realized pretty quickly that men just don't spend much money on clothes. Look at me now, this shirt's five years old, men make do, the women's wear market's twice the size, therefore there's a bigger opportunity, and I launch women's wear quite early on, in fact, but it grew much more quickly than the men's range.
Kerry Diamond:
How did those early women's collections do?
Johnnie Boden:
Well, there were some absolute dogs, but there were some winners there. The thing about clothing rather like food, you're only as good as your last meal when you own a restaurant and the clothing only good as your last range and you never know. You just throw lots of mud at the wall and see what sticks and you try new things, but thankfully we had a few products that really caught on. We had a cardigan in about the third year where we were selling 4,000 units of one style and it became a kind of cult thing. We had a long velvet coat that was loosely inspired by a Marc Jacobs coat. It was a wash velvet coat. It came in four great colors, great lining, lovely belt at the back, big buttons, spotty lining coat you could wear over jeans or over a dress. It was formal and also casual. That was our first million-pound product. Having those successes gave you huge confidence.
Kerry Diamond:
Take me back to the launch time. Who was the woman in your mind? Were you designing for Sophie?
Johnnie Boden:
I was designing for Sophie, really, and my friends, it was unashamedly in the early years. It was my friends, and I think one of the benefits of having a dominating father is that you learn to listen, in fact, and maybe you listen too much, and I was quite good at talking to people. We always had focus groups quite early on. We talked to customers, I talked to my friends, I'd see what they were buying, look at the competition and there's so many various ways that you get inspiration.
Above all, it's speaking to customers and asking what are the gaps in their wardrobe, what they like, but it was hit-and-miss. For the first 10 years, we were bumping along the bottom. We didn't make any money. I was barely taking a holiday, working really long hours, and then 2000, 2002 things really picked up and we started to motor them.
Kerry Diamond:
What was the turnaround about?
Johnnie Boden:
It was a combination of things. I had this fantastic chap called Julian who's still with me, and he came and he took care of all the things I was bad at. I'm really bad at many parts of the business, and he was a very good manager. I'm impatient. Good managers are really patient. The idea of me giving something an appraisal fills me with absolute horror. So he took over the stuff that I was bad at. We focused on the things that really mattered, so having the really, really great ranges, making sure we were mailing the catalogs to people who were likely to buy, getting that photography, all the front-end stuff, fantastic product, fantastic photography, and then the kind of back-end sort of looked after itself, but it was focusing on that stuff and just as long as 51% of your decisions are right, you're lucky. You're doing really well.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, I'm going to remember that. I think that's great advice too. You glossed over a little bit though of how hard those 10 years. Didn't you almost lose your home?
Johnnie Boden:
Oh my goodness. I was very relaxed about it, but Sophie wasn't. We had two burglaries, big burglaries, and I was defrauded by a guy and we had to go to the bank, give our home to the bank. Sophie was in floods of tears. I hate to admit. I was incredibly relaxed. I was "It's going to be fine. Just sign here, it's going to be fine." Because I knew it was going to be fine. I knew that we had the customers. It was a question of just, and I had this fantastic guy, Julian. I've always had confidence that we were going to make it, but it was pretty unpleasant and my children were young, my parents were both dying. It was a pretty difficult time, but whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Kerry Diamond:
What was your takeaway from that experience? Because I do think that a problem for a lot of entrepreneurs who are-
Johnnie Boden:
Very, very, probably the best question, and I've had many, many similar problems since. I think knowing your customer and hiring the right people, they will make or break your business. Those two issues. I would say hiring people. There are three components of hiring people. Number one is the interview and asking the questions, trying to get into the personality. So for example, in creative roles, I will ask them to describe what their flat looks like and how they design their flat, where they go on holiday. Ask them what they cook, what do they like cooking, and you can get a flavor for their creativity. Interview.
That's a third of it. The other third is live exercises. I'm great from live exercises. We've had lots of designers who had fantastic portfolios, but then they crumpled under the pressure. We will give a designer candidate a brief, we'll say, "Right, here's the brief, it's autumn winter, it's a casual story. Can you design 10 bits of outerwear in an hour, sketch?"
And then the third bit is references. If you're resourceful, you can find out about people through their social media links and you need to speak to people that that candidate has worked for or people who have worked for the candidate or people at the same level or people that candidate has fired. The key thing is to find out what are their faults.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about inspiration. Your daughter, Katie, said you are inspired by anything out of the ordinary. I wanted to know what's on that list.
Johnnie Boden:
Well, it's a terrible cliché, but I think if you have an eye, you always see, so for example, I've just said to the girls outside the studio, there's a woman wearing a very nice pink cardigan. I've asked them to take a photograph of the color. That's the most obvious thing, seeing people on the street. But for me, it's other things like I fell asleep on a rug at my home the other night and I suddenly realized, there were some beautiful color combinations. I took a photograph of that.
It will be flowers. It's more stuff outside fashion. It's art. I don't go to loads of exhibitions, but I'm constantly looking at magazines, stuff that comes up on my Pinterest feed, vintage, but it's not just looking at your competitors. There's all sorts of things out there, food, you name it, there's just lots of stuff every day.
Kerry Diamond:
You are a girl dad with three daughters. I'm curious, how has that influenced Boden over the years?
Johnnie Boden:
Obviously they wear the clothes. They give me a lot of feedback. They're very direct. They buy lots of interesting things themselves. They comment on the product, on the photography in a very direct way, which can be rather hurtful, but it's just the way it is. But above all, they've got a great sense of humor and they keep me going. It's much more their personality and when I'm feeling anxious, worried, a nice family supper puts me on a different level of happiness.
Kerry Diamond:
Your daughter, Katie also said that you have never tried to be cool.
Johnnie Boden:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Is that a true statement?
Johnnie Boden:
Absolutely. I mean, you can't see me when you're listening to the podcast. I've got red hair, I've got a red face. When I was in my teens in London was the punk scene was happening, you might remember, and it was very hard to have spiky hair when you got curly hair, so I tried to get it straightened. Absolutely terrible. But no, I've never-
Kerry Diamond:
We have to say you have an amazing head of hair.
Johnnie Boden:
Well, you very-
Kerry Diamond:
People would kill for that head of hair.
Johnnie Boden:
I mean, in many ways it's a bit sort of weird because part of me doesn't really care what I look like, but part of me really cares. I really value well-cut clothes. But ultimately clothes have this amazing ability to make you feel a million dollars. But in so doing, you kind of forget about it, and that's what we try to do with our product is they make you feel really great, but it's not a label that you are trying to impress people with and "Oh, my clothes are cooler than yours."
It's a very different world to the high-fashion world where people obsessed about showing off their friends. We use this phrase, we appeal to inner-directed people, so inner-directed people are those that really value the inherent beauty and quality of something and a friendship or a flower or a dress, but it doesn't really matter where it comes from as long as it makes them feel great. Cool people are obsessed about wearing the right things because somebody's told them they're the right things to wear rather than things that make them feel happy.
Kerry Diamond:
I think of coolness as something innate.
Johnnie Boden:
Yes, so use the food analogy, quite discreet places where the food is amazing, but they don't make a huge song and dance about it.
Kerry Diamond:
We also have to educate our U.S. listeners a little bit. You did accept your CBE, which stands for Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. I feel like I should say that one more time for the Americans,
Johnnie Boden:
We can't mention the Empire to the Americans.
Kerry Diamond:
Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. It is a big deal to get a CBE. You received yours from Prince William last year while wearing a pink suit.
Johnnie Boden:
Correct.
Kerry Diamond:
Why pink?
Johnnie Boden:
I think I mentioned I was at a school called Eaton where we had to wear tailcoats as a uniform, very old-fashioned and traditional. When you go to Windsor Castle, most people are wearing tailcoats. I was thinking about it the day before and I put it on and I felt, I can't wear this. This is a backwards step. I wore this at school for five years and I felt it was a uniform that I didn't really... I wanted to break out from that world. I thought I'm going to wear the pink suit that I had made for my 50th birthday party. And I spoke to a friend who works with Prince William. I said, "Is it okay?" He said, "Yes, absolutely fine. He'll love it." So without betraying too many confidences, Prince William commented on it and said how much he liked it.
Kerry Diamond:
That's so funny. Was that the first thing he said to you?
Johnnie Boden:
He said, "Great suit." I said, "Yes. That goes with my face," which he liked.
Kerry Diamond:
I have to ask your wife and your daughters were they like, "Dad, pink suit to accept your CBE?":
Johnnie Boden:
The thing that I was most nervous about, although my father died 24 years ago, I thought he would be turning in his grave if he saw me. So I put in my buttonhole a little sprig of his favorite flower, which is Alchemilla mollis, and I thought that was my way of saying thank you, dad. The girls said, "Oh, go on, dad, you can do it." The girls were all in the same room in the, it's called the throne room at Windsor Castle, and they were standing at the corner. Ann, my older daughter said, "Dad, he didn't get a word in."
Kerry Diamond:
Well, we're going to talk about that. You as folks are learning, are a very candid entrepreneur. Is it true you told Prince William you didn't think you deserved the award because Boden had been having a tough year?
Johnnie Boden:
Yes, I did say things have been difficult, and I also said that I was accepting it on behalf of all my team. It felt a little bit surreal. We had a difficult year last year, but we, thankfully we've moved on.
Kerry Diamond:
When Boden does have a misstep or makes the wrong call regarding trends, you are very quick to acknowledge that publicly, which isn't easy to do. I mean, I can say that for myself and having interviewed thousands of entrepreneurs at this point. You don't want your stakeholders to lose faith in you. Isn't it easier to be quiet?
Johnnie Boden:
Yes. To be frank, that was the only time we've really done it, but I felt I owed it to my customers who had had noticed that things weren't as they should have been, and I thought might as well say sorry. And in fact, it became, we were able to spin it as quite a positive story actually, because people like the truth.
Kerry Diamond:
You've said a lot of funny things about entrepreneurship over the years. You said something funny, but probably true about all of us, that entrepreneurs are fundamentally unstable people. Your exact words, because they want to destroy the natural order of things.
Johnnie Boden:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
I've never heard entrepreneurship explained quite that way.
Johnnie Boden:
Oh, no. I have no doubt that is the truth. When you think about it, we don't want to work in a conventional job. We think we can do better. We have the energy, we're disruptive, and I think the key thing you have to remember is that you need alongside you a stable person who can do all the managing, and you want somebody who has complementary skills who's not going to tell you how to cook or how to design, but they're going to be very good at making sure the trains run on time.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about the fashion business because you have survived three decades plus in this business, which is one of the toughest businesses. And as I was putting the questions together, I was thinking you've had the rise of fast fashion, the rise of resale or circular fashion, department stores opening and closing, brands coming and going, important conversations about sustainability, social media, usurping, traditional media, the rise of the influencer. I'm just curious, what have you done differently that's allowed you to survive when others haven't?
Johnnie Boden:
I think it's obviously very difficult and there's no scientific formula. If I had to answer that succinctly, I'd say it's a question of giving your customers what they want, being one step ahead of them without scaring them, getting under their skin. It sounds almost perverse, but we do these focus groups and we go to their houses and we speak to them and we understand what their needs are and what their dreams are. It becomes second nature with not just me with my team. When you're looking at a product and you say, "Oh, she'll love that," or "She's a bit bored of that," or "That's a bit too much for her." And it's really being true to the values of your business, not trying to be something else, but also moving on. We are, as you said, it's a very competitive world. People are imitating, copying, doing cheaper versions. You've just got to be a little, just one step ahead.
Kerry Diamond:
Will you ever open a store here in the US?
Johnnie Boden:
Yes, we are looking at it. We did open a store in London. It was a complete disaster and in fact a really helpful lesson because we learned so much from it. We're looking at it quite seriously at the moment. We are in Nordstrom.
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, you have no freestanding stores?
Johnnie Boden:
No, we are the second biggest British clothing brand in America with no retail presence.
Kerry Diamond:
But in the U.K.?
Johnnie Boden:
No, nothing.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow.
Johnnie Boden:
It's another business and we've got to really, how do we bring the product to life in that three-dimensional way? It's very different to selling things off the page or from a photograph.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, but you are thinking about it.
Johnnie Boden:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you going to try to do it again in the U.K.?
Johnnie Boden:
U.S. first because U.S. is our biggest market. There's so many of you guys.
Kerry Diamond:
There are a lot of us, yes. Johnnie, who are your personal style icons?
Johnnie Boden:
I've never been a great couture follower. I don't spend much time following movies, movie stars. Actually, my wife Sophie dresses unbelievably well. I look at her and also some members of my team. I'm much more, I suppose, I'm quite grounded and there are some incredible influencers and famous people, but I think consistently I would say Sophie.
Kerry Diamond:
That's so nice. How long have you guys been married?
Johnnie Boden:
32 years. Yeah, 32 years.
Kerry Diamond:
Congratulations.
Johnnie Boden:
Yeah, I'm very lucky.
Kerry Diamond:
Johnnie. Let's talk Boden holiday collection.
Johnnie Boden:
Lots of family moments, lots of tartan you call plaid. We've done something quite different at which you will soon see. Rather than shooting models, we've chosen 12 inspiring women to edit our range, and they've shot it themselves with their family and friends. I think one of the problems with holiday is it can look a bit corny. This is a much more earthy, but stylish way of doing it, we think. You'll have to tell me what you think when you see it. When you put on an item of clothing of ours, we feel it brings a spring to your step.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, absolutely.
Johnnie Boden:
And one of the things that I do when I see models and I have to decide what to, you can always tell a woman if a woman really loves an item of clothing because she just smiles a little bit more and she adjusts her body in a way that makes you know that she's happier.
Kerry Diamond:
I do love when a brand code is joy. I think our two brands have that in common. Okay, want to talk about food? Do you cook?
Johnnie Boden:
I'm a very, very impatient cook. I cook a little bit. I have zero patience, so whatever I cook has to be very, very quick.
Kerry Diamond:
Scrambled eggs.
Johnnie Boden:
Yeah, I'm brilliant at breakfast. I love filet steak. I'm very good at mashed potato. We also have this competition, this joke. What's your last supper? My last supper would be filet steak, mashed potato, spinach, courgettes with lemon, and I do quite a good gravy, but it's quick.
Kerry Diamond:
It's not a bad last supper. Okay. Any London restaurants you love?
Johnnie Boden:
I love food. Food is such a big deal for me. Whenever I travel, planning where to go is almost as important as what shops to go and have a look at. One of the key things for me, I like to be able to walk. To me, that's part of the experience, walking to the restaurant. So where we live in London, there's an amazing, what we call a gastropub called the Anglesey Arms, which is incredible. And we have a house in Dorset. There's a lovely restaurant there called Brassica.
My youngest daughter, Stella worked a very good restaurant in Notting Hill called Strakers. There's a lovely Polish restaurant called Ognisko in South Kensington, which got an incredible room. I value atmosphere almost as highly as I value food. I struggle with foodie restaurants where everybody's very quiet and all you can hear is people sort of tinkling with their glasses and the sort of too much starch white tablecloths. I can't relax. I'm a messy eater and I don't want to be quiet.
Kerry Diamond:
I think people can relate to that. And are you pals with any of the British culinary folks? Are you hanging out with Nigella Lawson?
Johnnie Boden:
No, but I did meet Gordon Ramsay once in the airport and he was absolutely great, and I realized he would be my sort of culinary hero. Not just because of his cooking, but because he's such a great character.
Kerry Diamond:
Also a girl dad.
Johnnie Boden:
Yes, yes. I said "Gordon, can I ask why do you swear so much?"
Kerry Diamond:
You asked him that.
Johnnie Boden:
Yes, I did.
Kerry Diamond:
What did he say?
Johnnie Boden:
Oh, I can't stop myself.
Kerry Diamond:
We're going to do a little speed round.
Johnnie Boden:
Right, okay.
Kerry Diamond:
What beverage do you start your day with?
Johnnie Boden:
Cup of tea.
Kerry Diamond:
Cup of tea. How do you take it?
Johnnie Boden:
Earl Grey leaf, not a bag. Milk, no sugar. Follow our marriage contract. Sophie says, "I will leave you if you don't bring me a cup of tea at seven o'clock every morning."
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. What's your favorite snack food?
Johnnie Boden:
Cheese.
Kerry Diamond:
Cheese. What kind?
Johnnie Boden:
Comte and Bovril. It's like Marmite.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, not a cheese. It's a spread.
Johnnie Boden:
It's a spread, yeah. Yeah. Parmesan or Comte.
Kerry Diamond:
Dream travel destination.
Johnnie Boden:
We love going to Greece, Skiathos. I love India as well. I love India.
Kerry Diamond:
Last question. If you had to be trapped on a deserted island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Johnnie Boden:
I think it'd be Gordon Ramsay or Jamie Oliver, because they're entertaining. They talk a lot. They'd be quite funny and they'd be good at the practical stuff, which I'll be absolute use of that. I'm so impractical, but I could imagine they could build quite a good shack and spears and stuff, and I would be pretty hopeless and they'd make me laugh as well.
Kerry Diamond:
Where do you think you would be of assistance on the island?
Johnnie Boden:
I'd be quite good at, oh, crikey. That's a very good point. I design quite a nice mural. ] I'd do the flower arranging. I think that's about it. I'm quite good at the washing up as well. I do the washing up them. I find washing up very therapeutic.
Kerry Diamond:
So you and I should not be trapped on a desert island together. We might starve.
Johnnie Boden:
Would you be as hopeless as me at the spears? I think I'm quite a kind person. I wouldn't be too competitive, and if you wanted to kill me, I'd probably say, "Okay, go for it."
Kerry Diamond:
All right, let's hope it doesn't come to that. So anyway, Johnnie, this has been so much fun. I honestly could talk to you for a whole other hour. I bet a lot of people say this to you, but I hope you write a business book one day.
Johnnie Boden:
You are very kind. Perhaps you should help me. My experience is very niche. I'm not sure how relevant it's for the rest of the world, but if anybody wants to do it, feel free to give me a call.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, well welcome to New York. Thanks for coming on the show.
Johnnie Boden:
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you so much to Johnnie and the team at Boden for making our miniseries possible. Be sure to use code CB10 when you're shopping over at boden.com. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazan is the studio engineer at Newsstand Studios. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Jenna Sadhu. Our content operations manager is Londyn Crenshaw, and our editorial coordinator is Sophie Kies. Special thanks to Good Studio in Brooklyn and thanks to you for listening. You are the Bombe.