Joy The Baker Transcript
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi peeps, you're listening to Radio Cherry Bombe. Host Kerry Diamond is traveling right now for some fun Cherry Bombe events. My name is Jessie Sheehan, and I'm the host of She's my Cherry Pie, the baking podcast From The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm a baker, recipe developer, and the author of four baking books, including my latest, “Salty, Cheesy, Herby, Crispy Snackable Bakes.”
Today, I'm thrilled to be interviewing Joy Wilson, aka, Joy The Baker. She and I chatted last year when we first kicked off She's my Cherry Pie, so I'm excited to catch up with her and talk about her newest project and illustrated children's book. Joy is a self-taught baker and one of the first baking bloggers to use the internet as a tool for teaching and spreading literal joy in the kitchen. She's written three cookbooks, is Editor-in-Chief of the Joy The Baker magazine, and of Camp Joy, a zine inspired by Joy's love of camping. In this episode, Joy and I talk all about her family of bakers, her beautiful new home in Texas, and the bake house she will eventually be running out of it, and the importance of consistency when it comes to running her blog and her social accounts. Stay tuned for our chat.
Kerry Diamond:
Today's episode is presented by Kerrygold. Have you noticed that butter is having a moment? I've seen handbags sculpted out of butter, little couches made from butter paths, tiny butter cherubs, even butter colored nail polish and fashion. The world is butter obsessed, but you know who loves butter more than most? The folks at Kerrygold. They've been perfecting their craft for decades using milk from Irish grass-fed cows to create their famously rich, creamy, golden butter. There's a reason Kerrygold is beloved by everyone from home cooks to the world's top culinary creatives. It's just better butter. Kerrygold salted pure Irish butter has a butterfat content of 80%. Well, the unsalted version has a butterfat content of 82%, and that beautiful yellow color, it's thanks to beta-carotene found naturally in milk from grass-fed cows. Want to get in on the fun? Get yourself some Kerrygold and whip up some flavored compound butter, fill some fancy butter molds, or sculpt one of those gorgeous butter mounds for your next dinner party or get together. Visit kerrygoldusa.com to learn more, get recipes, and find a stockist near you.
If you are looking for a great holiday gift, we have lots of options for you at cherrybombe.com. There's the Cherry Bombe membership, which comes with lots of perks. Our C-Sweet membership for the power babe in your life. Subscriptions to our print magazine, yes, we have a print magazine and it is gorgeous. And tickets to our upcoming Jubilee conference, taking place April 12th in New York City. Jubilee is one of, if not the largest gathering of women and culinary creatives in the food and drink space, and it is always a great day. Tell someone you love that they are the Bombe. Visit cherrybombe.com for all of this and more.
Jessie Sheehan:
Let's chat with today's guest. Joy Wilson, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Joy Wilson:
Thanks, Jessie.
Jessie Sheehan:
You have this incredible new book, which I love, and you co-authored it with your dad. It's an illustrated children's book, in fact, and I would love to know what inspired it.
Joy Wilson:
Well, I've always wanted to work on a book project with my dad. My dad worked for the post office his whole life, but he is a writer in his heart, and so I knew I wanted to work on something with him. And he's written an unpublished children's book before. I know, my dad's the sweetest. Since my dad taught me how to bake when I was a kid, I grew up with both my parents in the kitchen, but I thought it would just be a really natural fit to work on a children's book together, and it's just really sweet.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that, and I want to know, was your dad writing novels? Was he always like a children's book kind of guy? Which part of the book did he take care of, which part did you take care of?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, he's a novelist in his life. So the children's book I think was just a passion project, but I feel like it's important to tell people that my dad's a Virgo and he's the most thorough man I've ever met, which makes him an incredible baker and an incredible writer. When we worked on this book project together, we did everything together in tandem. We built the outline together, and so the book is made up of 10 life lessons that you can learn in the kitchen, and at the end of the book is a cake recipe. And so we really built out each lesson to together. I would take a pass at writing something, send it to him, he would edit it, and take another pass, and so we just built on it together.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. Were you ever together or was it all like a virtual writing relationship?
Joy Wilson:
It was all virtual because I live in Texas and he lives in California and of course, I mean, I go back to visit pretty often, and so we would be sitting in the living room talking about the book, working on it, and my mom is there too, so it really was like a family affair.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. I've heard you describe the book as sort of essentially your life story.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Can you kind of unpack that for us?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah. I mean, the book is so beautifully illustrated and it makes us laugh as a family because there's illustrations of my parents in the '80s. My mom had this cute little cropped haircut and my dad had short hair and his beard wasn't graying yet, and so it's funny because Tatiana, who did the illustrations for the book, we submitted folders and folders of photos for her to work from, and she really worked from those photos in building out the story of us as a young family.
And so yeah, it starts with me as a kid baking with my parents and then me as a teen and starting my career, sort of. I wanted to work in a bakery but I hadn't gone to culinary school, and I just was like, maybe if I bake cookies for my job interview, I'll get the job. Spoiler alert, I did, and I was out of my depth, instantly out of my depth. The book kind of goes through all of that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Was it actually your dad's chocolate chip cookie recipe that you brought? Whose cookie recipe did you bring?
Joy Wilson:
That's a good question. This was so long ago. I don't know if it was my dad's cookie recipe. He might have-
Jessie Sheehan:
But it's kind of famous, right?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah. My dad does make a legendary brown butter chocolate chip cookie that has evolved over the years, but I think he's finally settled on the perfect cookie recipe. It's on my site, it is so good.
Jessie Sheehan:
And honey, was he way ahead of the curve with the brown butter chocolate chip cookie?
Joy Wilson:
Well, yeah. Let me tell you, full disclosure.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay. Please, please, please.
Joy Wilson:
The recipe has evolved so much over the years. They used to be called lock in a box chocolate chip cookies, because my dad said the recipe was so good you had to lock it in a box. This was before we shared recipes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Right, right.
Joy Wilson:
So it was lock in a box, and the secret to that cookie recipe was Orville Redenbacher butter flavored popcorn oil.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh, your dad is a genius.
Joy Wilson:
Because it would impart that very buttery flavor to the cookies. I mean, I don't know what's in that stuff. Who knows? But it makes a delicious cookie.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Joy Wilson:
So that would be two tablespoons if that were in his cookie dough for years and years. And then we also collectively started browning butter in 2009, 2010. That's when we were like, you know what? And I told my dad, "Hey, maybe instead of the popcorn oil, which is a little bit weird, but lock in a box, we could try browning butter," and he took it and ran with it ever since.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my God, I love him so much. Does this mean cookbooks for grownups might be a thing of the past for you? You have written three spectacular books, and I know I, for one, would be very sad, but are you kind of like moving into new territory?
Joy Wilson:
Jessie, I think I might be moving into new territory. I don't know if there is another cookbook within me. To be honest, I don't know, if I did do another cookbook, I think it would be with my dad, and we sort of have played around with that idea. It really takes a lot to make a cookbook and I don't want to do it if I don't really see it. It's also, to be fully transparent, the time it takes to make a cookbook from ideation to publishing. Those two years kind of uninspire me, to be honest. And I've found a lot more joy in creation in making short children's book like this, or the magazines that I do during the holidays, those come together in three months of the same year that the magazine's going to come out, and I think I like that pace a little bit better.
Jessie Sheehan:
Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's welcome a new sponsor. It is Meridian Printing, the family-owned printing company based in East Greenwich, Rhode Island. Meridian has printed Cherry Bombe magazine for the past several years, and it's always a pleasure working with the team at Meridian. They are meticulous and professional and care more than any other printer we've ever worked with. They are amazing partners. When I wanted to print three covers of our Icons issue, they said, "No problem." When I wanted to put a Molly Baz poster in every copy of our Molly issue, they said, "We got it," and they were amazing about helping us get the pink shade just right for our new Ina Garten issue. If you have an idea for a magazine or a zine or maybe you want to do books on demand, you should talk to the team at Meridian Printing. Visit meridianprinting.com for more information.
Jessie Sheehan:
I wanted to talk a teeny bit more about your family and about growing up, just because I'm super into this book, writing father-daughter project, and I wanted to talk about the fact that both of your parents baked a lot when you were little. This was a baking house, and I wanted you to tell us a little bit about their day jobs that were then followed by, I think nightly and maybe even weekend baking pursuits. Yes? Dad with pie, mom with cake decorating?
Joy Wilson:
Yes, very much. I feel like we're very much a food family, food-motivated people. So both my parents worked for the post office. Actually, my mom was a mail carrier in Beverly Hills for her whole career, which honestly was awesome. And my dad-
Jessie Sheehan:
Did she have great stories?
Joy Wilson:
Amazing stories, amazing stories. Just as a side note, she used to deliver mail on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills, and she'd just be walking down Rodeo Drive with her mail cart going into all these fancy stores, and it's a tradition at Christmas to give your mail carrier a gift. And so she would come home with these designer gifts, Fendi, like a Chanel scarf, like all of these insane gifts.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that.
Joy Wilson:
It just didn't mean a thing to her. She couldn't have been more unimpressed.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that so much.
Joy Wilson:
And I was like, "This is amazing," and she's like, "Take it." But anyway, I loved that for her and for me. So yeah, they both worked at the post office, but my mom had a side hustle when I was really young of being a cake decorator. And she would take orders from people at work, make their celebration cakes, birthday cakes, the whole deal.
My dad was also in the kitchen and he loved to bake pies, cakes, really, everything. I remember very distinctly sitting in a high chair about to mess with the pots of food coloring.
Jessie Sheehan:
Uh-oh.
Joy Wilson:
I remember about to mess with those, and my mom was using them for some cake decorating project but yeah, I have distinct memories of sitting in a high chair and watching both of my parents scurry around.
Jessie Sheehan:
You have sisters too, yes?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Were they as interested as you were in the baking?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, I think we were all high-key interested.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that.
Joy Wilson:
My sister has an ice cream company now up in the Pacific Northwest.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, amazing. Oh, that's so cool. And I think I recall this when I interviewed you on, She's My Cherry Pie and listeners, if you haven't tuned in, highly recommend. I learned at that point that there was actually a lot of health food happening in your childhood home, in addition to cakes and pies, etc. First of all, what kind of health food should we picture? And also health food not to bake. Is it an anomaly? Is it a phenomenon?
Joy Wilson:
Oh my gosh.
Jessie Sheehan:
Explain everything.
Joy Wilson:
Do you remember the health food of the '80s?
Jessie Sheehan:
Of course.
Joy Wilson:
It was pretty gnarly stuff. It was like, if we weren't baking it, we were buying, like my parents were buying whole wheat fig bars, whole wheat Fig Newtons. I felt like regular Fig Newtons were healthy enough, I didn't really want that in the first place, but a whole wheat Fig Newton, my word. And then there were always really just gnarly rices where you're like, is this cooked? Wow, it was a lot of tofu. We were famous for this dish that if you put enough ketchup on it was okay, but it was called tofu potato bake, tofu and potatoes. Maybe there was a little cheese on it, but just drown that thing in ketchup and you'll survive.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh, I love it. I love it that they had the idea like, oh, we got to be healthy. And then also they were like, now can we please have cookies with some popcorn oil in them? And I need to decorate this cake with buttercream and food coloring. I love that.
Joy Wilson:
The loophole was that if you could bake it from scratch, you could have it. That's why I was so motivated to learn how to bake because I desperately wanted something that wasn't a whole wheat Fig Newton.
Jessie Sheehan:
You wear so many hats. You are a four-time cookbook author, Editor-In-Chief of the biannual Joy The Baker Magazine, and of Camp Joy, a zine inspired by your love of camping. You're killing it at social media, which I know firsthand is indeed a job in and of itself, and you are an OG blogger and have been at it for over 15 years. So first I was hoping you could talk to me about blogging. Is it still something that brings you joy, pun intended?
Joy Wilson:
Yes, yes. It's so cheesy and I really just still do it.
Jessie Sheehan:
Well, I feel like there are a few of you, like you and Deb, David Lebovitz, even though now it's sort of more his newsletter, but it's the few of you that are still at it, and there's nothing cheesy about it.
Joy Wilson:
Oh my gosh, it just never dawned on me to stop doing it. Isn't that a wild thing to say? But I still love doing it, I really still love developing recipes for the site, but I think the thing that I love about it the most is that I've built a team of people that I work with on the website, it's not just me anymore. I have an editor who I love working with. I have a photographer who also helps me develop recipes, and I think she's so talented and I love working with her. Then I love the audience.
The most popular posts on Joy The Baker now are a Sunday post that I do called Let It Be Sunday, which is links from around the internet that inspired us, made us think, things that are beyond food. That's the most popular thing on my site. It's really turned into a community of readers, but also a community of people that I love to work with and that's why I keep doing it.
Jessie Sheehan:
The people that you work with, are they in Texas with you or it's all virtual?
Joy Wilson:
It's all virtual, yeah. And my editor, Abby, has been reading my site since 2010. Years and years and years ago I had a podcast. Abby, my editor, used to listen to my podcast. Yeah, and now she works with me, and so I don't know. I think it just feels good.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's incredible. For those that on the very off chance are not familiar with your recipes, can you describe your dessert style and the kinds of recipes we find on the blog?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah. I try to make approachable home baking. I also want to give people confidence in the kitchen. I know that it takes time and money. Those things are so precious, and so I really try to focus on proportions and technique. I'm not straying too far from traditional stuff, because I think that the repetition of proportions and technique is what will help people feel confident in the kitchen when they have success over and over again. So really, it's just simple home baking with a little bit of a twist. Sometimes we're adding peanut butter or bacon, or remember when we were adding bacon to everything?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, that was a long time ago. That was like a cake pop era. There was a red velvet era. Maybe I'm dating myself, but we did that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Totally.
Joy Wilson:
I do that less now.
Jessie Sheehan:
Totally.
Joy Wilson:
But yeah, that's the style.
Jessie Sheehan:
And would you say that the recipes or the style has changed over time, or would you say the recipes you started with 15 years ago are similar to the ones you do today?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, they're similar, they're similar, and I really try to just find the best and most approachable version of a recipe. I revamped my brown butter blueberry muffin recipe.
Jessie Sheehan:
I saw that.
Joy Wilson:
That recipe has been on the blog since 2010, and I was like, you know what? I think I took two pictures of those muffins in 2010. I probably had to do it in a hurry and then go to work. So I was like, let me just give this a little facelift, and we remade them, tweaked the recipe just a tiny bit, but I try to stay traditional but fun.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. So talk to me about the photography aspect. Didn't you shoot your own books?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Joy.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, I know.
Jessie Sheehan:
What?
Joy Wilson:
Gosh.
Jessie Sheehan:
Who? Did the photography just sort of come out of you?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Or come out of the blogging, or was it something you were doing when you were little, or?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah. No, I had to teach myself. I had to teach myself how to photograph 15 years ago and style and all of that. It's a muscle. My early blog posts, my goodness, how embarrassing, but I let them stand because it's a picture in time and yeah, I just have gotten better. I mean, I've reached the threshold with my work that I don't photograph for the site anymore, but I occasionally will. I photograph for my social media, so we're still doing it.
Jessie Sheehan:
It sounds like you are also good at relinquishing control. You're not the kind of person who's like, I used to photograph and I'll always photograph. You do have your hand in everything, obviously, but it sounds like you're pretty good at sort of allowing people who are also good to do some of the work for you. Is that accurate?
Joy Wilson:
Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm so happy to recognize when someone is better at something than I am. I love that. I love to find that in people. I work with a photographer now, her name is Carly Flores, she lives in Oregon. She is such an incredible photographer and baker. Yeah, we became friends and now we work together. Wow, what a blessing that is, it's the coolest thing. And I mean, I think I'm a pretty talented food photographer, but I do so many things that maybe I'm not the best. I'm so happy to say I'm not the best, but I get to work with the best and that's the coolest.
Jessie Sheehan:
Is it true that many of the recipes are kind of inspired by when you go out to eat or something you eat in a restaurant? Can you talk about recipe inspiration? I mean, it sounds silly to say, "Oh, you've been doing it for so long. How are you still inspired?" Because I have been doing it for a long time too, and I know why. It's just like, if it's what you think about, you're thinking about it all the time. But tell us a little bit about where inspiration comes from since you have been at it for so long.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, it's interesting, I think it changes. I used to go out a lot more. I lived in New Orleans a couple of years ago and I would go out a lot and be inspired by the food scene of New Orleans, and also, I lived in California too, in Los Angeles. Incredible. But now I live in a tiny town in Texas, and I'll tell you, I'm cooking at home. Okay? That's where the food comes from. It's different. Now, I find that I'm inspired regionally. The town I live in has a lot of German roots around it, and so I'm making kolaches and German pastries, Danish pastries.
Jessie Sheehan:
Can you tell us what a kolache is in case people don't know?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, a kolache is a yeasted dough that can either be filled with sausage and cheese, that's my favorite, or indented and then filled with cream cheese and raspberry jam or some kind of fruit filling. Now that I live in Texas, you have to make kolaches. In New Orleans. I had to make beignets, you know? So I find inspiration regionally now. It's chilies, it's cornbread, it's beans, it's meat, seasonal stuff.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yum, delicious.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
I want it all right now.
Joy Wilson:
So good.
Jessie Sheehan:
I just had a smoothie when Joy arrived, which had kale in it, but now I wish I was eating a kolache with sausage and cheese.
Joy Wilson:
With a side of chili.
Jessie Sheehan:
And some beans, cornbread and chili and a piece of meat. You've said about the blog that it's sort of the foundation of the business, and it's essentially, I loved this, a live cookbook. I guess the nucleus of that system is the blog.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, everything just points back to it. Now there's so many arms of a business, social media, like all the million social media channels that I always want people to just come back to the blog. That's where everything lives.
Jessie Sheehan:
Tell us about the cadence on the blog, how frequently you're posting. Is there a set schedule? I know you've been sort of taking a more seasonal angle with the blog, which maybe allows a little more downtime in the summer. Tell us about all of that.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, now that the blog isn't the only thing that I work on, it is a more seasonal approach. So as we're coming into fall and holidays, I'm posting a new recipe on the blog at least once a week. In the summer I wasn't doing that, because I also noticed that my audience isn't baking in the summer and honestly, I don't really want to either. I want watermelon and I want to sit by the pool. If there's tequila, that's great. You know?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yup.
Joy Wilson:
I take a hint from my readers and I can see the cadence of what they're doing, and it speaks to me too. And so in the summer, I work on different projects, usually the holiday magazine. Oh my God, the way that I had a Christmas tree on my front porch in July, it was intense. Also, my new neighbors think I'm nuts, they think I'm insane. I'm like, it's Christmas in July, y'all.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's a great segue. Tell us about the magazine. I loved those pictures on Instagram, but tell us about the Christmas tree on the porch. It's so brilliant.
Joy Wilson:
So I get to write a magazine, a nationally distributed magazine, like a magazine in grocery stores, which is so wild to me. It's called, Joy The Baker magazine. It comes out every holiday season, so it's Thanksgiving and Christmas recipes. I make this magazine in the summertime, so this latest magazine features my new house in Bellville, which is an 1888 Victorian house, it's insane. It's truly, it looks like a dollhouse. It feels like a living being. It's actually feels weird to be away from the house. The house is a whole being in itself, but I made Christmas at the Bake House, the new Bake House this July. And I had my neighbors, I don't know, somehow my neighbors, they're all a little older, one of them got my email address. I don't know, she found it, and we love that for her, but she did email me to say, "There is a Christmas tree on your front porch." I said, "Yes," She said, "Why?" I said, "Well, it's Christmas. It's Christmas here."
Jessie Sheehan:
It's Christmas at my house.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah. I thought about leaving it up until Christmas because have you seen Christmas trees decorated for fall, decorated for Thanksgiving?
Jessie Sheehan:
Interesting.
Joy Wilson:
It's a whole thing.
Jessie Sheehan:
Thing, okay.
Joy Wilson:
It's a whole thing, maybe it hasn't reached-
Jessie Sheehan:
Was it a live tree?
Joy Wilson:
No, it's a 10 foot pre-lit fake tree. It's huge.
Jessie Sheehan:
Honey, I love you.
Joy Wilson:
It's huge, it was on the front porch. Anyway, I was going to leave it up and decorate it for fall, but-
Jessie Sheehan:
Did you have to do fake snow and stuff?
Joy Wilson:
No.
Jessie Sheehan:
Or no, because you were like, this is my holiday magazine and I live in Texas.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
Joy Wilson:
No fake snow.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay, good.
Joy Wilson:
But I did have to strategically shoot, so it didn't look like summer, it didn't look like I was sweating my face off. The roses were blooming in the front yard when I shot the tree, so Carly had to photoshop all the buds off of the roses because they wouldn't be blooming in the winter.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love it. When you shoot the magazine, does the team come to you?
Joy Wilson:
No.
Jessie Sheehan:
You still do it by yourself?
Joy Wilson:
Well-
Jessie Sheehan:
Or a combo? Yeah.
Joy Wilson:
It's been different. It's been different. I've shot the magazine with someone in my house when I was making one in New Orleans. This one happened at a time when I was moving at the same time, it was just a little bit of a chaotic life, so Carly and I shot it remotely. I shot a lot of the lifestyle stuff myself. Carly shot a lot of the food stuff in Oregon. It was a hodgepodge, but it came together, miraculously. It was a miracle.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love the magazine. You've sent it and I've purchased it before. I love it, so I can't wait to see this year's.
Joy Wilson:
Thank you.
Jessie Sheehan:
There's so many holiday treats and baked goods that we all make. Is it hard every... I mean, I feel like I could imagine somebody asking me this, and I'd kind of be like, I'm rolling my eyes in my head, so I hope you're not rolling your eyes at me, but is it sometimes hard to be like, oh my God, it's another holiday magazine?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my God. Are you kind of grabbing stuff from the blog and tweaking that? Something comes to you during the year and you write it down, you're like, that would be good for the magazine?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, it is a little bit hard. Sometimes it's harder than other times to think out of season. So it was a little bit of a chore for me, no complaints, this summer to try to think of Thanksgiving. Oh my God, the sides, I don't know. What? It was a little bit of an undertaking. I pulled some cookbooks that I have at my house, and I just tried to work from a theme.
Jessie Sheehan:
Can you share the cookbooks that you grabbed and looked at?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, I looked at Erin McDowell's savory baking book. Jessie, I love your easy peasy cookbook.
Jessie Sheehan:
Thank you.
Joy Wilson:
I keep that in my kitchen. I bake from that all the time. Texas Monthly, I look at it online. They have some great recipes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my God, just saying the two words together, Texas and monthly. I know that that would be my jam. I could just imagine.
Joy Wilson:
They have some great recipes. Yeah, yeah, and so I knew that thematically I wanted to talk about my new house, talk about living in Texas because different than my last magazine, living in New Orleans, and so I kind of was pulling from a theme. And what grows in Texas? We've got pecans, we've got jalapenos, so I had some flavors, some regions, and then I just could think from there.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. I'm picturing Joy in her big beautiful house with these cookbooks on the table and you sitting there, but is there also some Googling that's happening?
Joy Wilson:
Oh, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
And yeah, using the intraweb to also-
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, come up with stuff.
Joy Wilson:
Just for flavor combinations.
Jessie Sheehan:
100%.
Joy Wilson:
And I don't know, what are we doing with potatoes right now? What has been done with potatoes?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, I was saying that there's a chapter of my new savory easy book, which is biscuits and scones, but when you're writing a cookbook and there are 100 recipes, it's like, yeah, you can maybe come up with 15 biscuits and scones off the top of your head and muffins, and then you're like, oh my God, I need help. And then it's sort of those moments, so I can totally relate to that.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
You've said that consistency is the key to your success, both with the blog with your social platforms. Talk to us about that. I mean, I know that idea of like, oh, if I post every week, people will expect it and then I will grow. But tell us about how consistency Joy's world has helped make you sort of who you are today and have all these amazing different endeavors.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah. Well, consistency is so hard, right?
Jessie Sheehan:
So hard.
Joy Wilson:
It's like sometimes you're in the mood for it and sometimes so much you are not in the mood for it. I struggle with it sometimes, but it really just is about showing up for yourself and your audience. Consistency was a huge part of the growth of the blog, and then the growth of the blog led to the growth of social media. It is now interesting, we have to move around a bit more now. I used to be able to show up on the blog and that's where people were. Now people are on social media in a different way, so it is about being consistent about showing up where people are now. I show up for myself and the community I have on the blog. That's important to me, but people are on Instagram, people are on TikTok, showing up there consistently is a practice. It's a practice, it never is not a practice, I feel like.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, it's so hard, at least I find it so, the struggle of social. And you're exactly right, you sort of have to go find the people but I think for me, I'm such a creature of habit. It's so hard for me. I'm a very rigid person, I'm very black and white, all the things you don't want to be. So listeners do not, listen to me but don't do anything I'm saying, that it's hard for me to be flexible. I'm like, but this recipe or this kind of video always works on Instagram. Why doesn't it work anymore? Or, but-
Joy Wilson:
You're not alone with that feeling.
Jessie Sheehan:
I know, it's so hard. Do you have any advice for us, particularly around social? Because you have such a beautiful account and seem to always be engaging.
Joy Wilson:
What I'm hearing is that you struggle with it. I want you to know that I struggle with it too. There is no right answer. There is no right thing. You can be consistent as the day is long and not be rewarded for it. I mean, I find that over and over again. I mean, I find, and I don't know if this is the right answer, that you just have to keep doing it. I don't know.
Jessie Sheehan:
I know. Well, I won't lie, like this morning, I mean, you and I, we both had books that just came out and we're both busy with... And this morning I was making pies for some content I'm going to make tomorrow, and I was just like, what am I doing? Literally, I just had a cookbook come out and I'm home making pies at 8:00 AM, it just felt like so sad. I won't lie. And it's me being consistent because I'm like, well, this is what you do, and I'm collaborating with this and I have to do this, but there is a part of it, well, and this is a perfect segue to something you've also said. You've said that social can be really isolating, and though for you, it brings awareness to the brand, which I get. It's hard to feel so alone in that, and I'm really bad and call it FOMO, I call it compare and despair, but it's so hard to be on there and not want to see what other people are doing and then feel sad.
Joy Wilson:
Oh my God, I don't even know if I would say that social media is isolating anymore. I don't know that I feel that, but I do feel it doesn't matter if you've worked hard on something, it doesn't matter if you love something. What matters is this invisible thing that you can't control called the algorithm that will reward you or it feels like punish you. For what? I don't know. It's so hard to feel like you're winning.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, agreed, and it's hard to want to be engaged when you're not seeing the prize.
Joy Wilson:
Right. Some content I love making. Some days I love making content, some days I don't love making content but I do it anyway. Both kinds of content win and lose, and so it's like, well, I don't know.
Jessie Sheehan:
Do you try to post every day? What are you trying to do on Instagram, for instance?
Joy Wilson:
I would say five days a week, I try.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay, so I really want to talk about the Bake House. I'm very excited. One major way you've historically combated isolation, whether you feel it with blogging or with social or just being by yourself making content, is the Bake House. Can you tell us first about the Bake House in your home in New Orleans, and also about the one you are building in Texas?
Joy Wilson:
Yes, oh my gosh. So the Bake House in New Orleans, 2015 or so. I started it by just opening up my house to classes to people about once a month, and I had a big marble island in New Orleans, and I could fit about eight to 10 people around the island, and people would come for baking classes. Popular back then was my Drake on Cake class. I would get a bunch of cakes and we would put Drake lyrics on them.
Jessie Sheehan:
Is that what led to the Instagram, or did the Instagram lead to the classes?
Joy Wilson:
The Instagram was first.
Jessie Sheehan:
You want to just tell people quickly about that just because-
Joy Wilson:
Oh my gosh.
Jessie Sheehan:
In case they don't know.
Joy Wilson:
It was a time Drake on Cake was, I think I started it in 2015 or so, but I would write Drake lyrics on cakes and decorate them and style them totally over the top. It was a time, it was fun, I was a Drake fan. Now, not so much. I think we've gone sour on that so we don't do the cakes anymore, but they were a very popular class at the Bake House.
So when I moved to Texas, my main thought when getting another house was expanding the Bake House, and so I'm putting together a Bake House room. It's in the sunroom right off the kitchen in the main house in Bellville, Texas. And I just got a 10 foot butcher block restaurant quality table in there. So I'll be able to fit eight to 10 people around the table, and we'll do baking classes, we'll do baking classes soon. And for growth, because I find myself thinking in ways that are not being on the internet. Maybe at some point I can be a person off the internet.
Jessie Sheehan:
Wouldn't that be amazing?
Joy Wilson:
That's what I am working towards. I'm interested in that.
I have a two bedroom, one bathroom apartment over my garage at my new property, and that's going to be a short-term rental. It's going to be beautiful when it comes together, and my house is on a acre lot, so there's space, and so I'll be able to welcome people for overnight stays and for classes, and I want to build out the Bake House to be a part of the community in Bellville, Texas. So I'm going to look into opening a occasional bakery space off of my garage. There is a lot of growth there.
Jessie Sheehan:
Like a pop-up situation?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh, Joy. In New Orleans. Would people come to New Orleans and stay in a hotel and then come and do classes?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
So that would be sort of the hope for Bellville as well?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, yeah, because Bellville is a small town with a lot of growth happening. There's some amazing businesses there. It's just a really great place, and so it's cool to be a part of that and expand the Bake House in that way.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that, and you've described the Bake House that you're building in Bellville as sort of the next stage of your career or transformation of the brand, which I also love because sometimes I feel like I'm so in the trenches that I have no, it's not that I have no goals, but that I'm not able to see sort of where I'm headed or where I want to head. And just thinking about you and learning about you and knowing you, I feel like you're really smart about, I mean, maybe it's just as easy as saying you're business-minded about what you are doing. You have a sense of, oh, this is the brand, but can I do something I love and expand it in that way?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel like I find the pieces of the business that I'm having dwindling enjoyment from, I want to correct for those. I love bringing people together, I love the new community that I live in, and I'm like, okay, how can I shift this so maybe I can be in this community space more than the online space? At some point, things take a long time to actually shift and move. I'm trying to be ready for them.
Jessie Sheehan:
Speaking of time, might the Bake House be opened in a year? What are you thinking, in terms of when we can all bang down your door and come and sleep above your garage?
Joy Wilson:
Yes, in the springtime.
Jessie Sheehan:
Spring? Great.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah. I'm going to do some holiday classes kind of just to ease into it, but then in the springtime, we'll be ready to go.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. It's really clear, you love to make a beautiful home.
Joy Wilson:
Oh my gosh.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's a Joy thing, which is why I'm so not surprised that you could teach yourself photography because you have a very visual person and you make these really beautiful homes. Your house in New Orleans, maybe it was the Pioneer Woman, maybe she featured your house that I read about it, but it was so beautiful. So obviously this must be really fun that you have a new project.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, oh my gosh.
Jessie Sheehan:
And is it way bigger than New Orleans? Is it overwhelming?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, it's overwhelming, it's overwhelming. Sometimes it's good to not know what you don't know. You know what I mean?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, I do.
Joy Wilson:
I did not know what I was getting myself into. This house is full of surprises. I thought I was going to come into this house built in 1888, again, it's so old, and just be able to do all the fun stuff. No.
Jessie Sheehan:
All the joy tweaks.
Joy Wilson:
No, no. We're redoing the foundation. There's a lot of nuts and bolts that go into this house, so I'm just starting to get to the fun stuff now that our-
Jessie Sheehan:
You able to live there, though?
Joy Wilson:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. That's great.
Joy Wilson:
I'm able to live there.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's great. Well, obviously since your neighbor's already mad at you about the tree, you're living there.
Joy Wilson:
So curious. So very curious. But yeah, so I'm getting to the fun stuff. I'm the fourth owner of this house, which really feels special and it feels like I get to be part of the history of this house now, so I'm really trying to honor it in a way that feels authentic to the house.
Jessie Sheehan:
Has it been renovated in any kind of scary 1970s ways, or is it pretty-
Joy Wilson:
No.
Jessie Sheehan:
Or all the bones?
Joy Wilson:
The bones are there, and it really is. The kitchen has been renovated in the '90s so it's a great kitchen, very classic looking, but the rest of the house is very original, thank goodness. It has amazing details. Stained glass windows, original hardwood floors, four fireplaces, it's insane. I really am trying to make the right decisions for the house, if that makes sense.
Jessie Sheehan:
Totally. Like honor it.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, and its legacy. I love that, I love that. Before we do the speed round, and I know this happened a long time ago, but I love this story so I'm hoping you won't mind sharing it. Will you tell us about the Taylor Swift sugar cookie phenomenon?
Joy Wilson:
Oh my gosh, so long ago.
Jessie Sheehan:
I know, but I love it, and I feel like she's even bigger probably now than she was when it happened, but tell us about Taylor and your sugar cookies.
Joy Wilson:
I'm so happy for her, but.
Jessie Sheehan:
I know.
Joy Wilson:
She's incredible, she's incredible.
Jessie Sheehan:
I know, could not agree more.
Joy Wilson:
So I don't even know the year. Years and years ago, Taylor Swift went to my blog, found a recipe for sugar cookies that I had made. She tweaked them and made her own version with chai tea and nutmeg, and-
Jessie Sheehan:
Which makes me think she's like a baker?
Joy Wilson:
She is a baker.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, I think I miss the baking memo.
Joy Wilson:
No, she's a big baker.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah.
Joy Wilson:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Because that sounds very like, oh, hello Taylor.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, no, she's got thoughts. She's got a point of view. Yeah, I think she is a great baker. Yes, so she made these cookies, shared them on Tumblr.
Jessie Sheehan:
Right, right.
Joy Wilson:
Tumblr. She linked back to the original recipe on my blog on Tumblr again, and my blog exploded. She has such the golden touch, and now to this very day, every September, I now have on the blog a Taylor Swift chai sugar cookie, and every September the Swifties come and they make the cookie. They make the cookie. My blog explodes with this cookie recipe every September. It's exploding now still, but fall hits and the people want this cookie. And honestly, it's a great cookie, so.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love the people for that.
Joy Wilson:
Hilarious, but last year when she started dating Travis, it was a good time for the blog.
Jessie Sheehan:
That is hilarious.
Joy Wilson:
It's so wild.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that your growth or your engagement is connected to Taylor Swift.
Joy Wilson:
Who knew?
Jessie Sheehan:
That's why I had to bring it up.
Joy Wilson:
It's like you can't do that if you try, really.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, no, of course not. Of course not.
Joy Wilson:
So wild.
Jessie Sheehan:
You're like, I think you might like this, Taylor.
Joy Wilson:
No.
Jessie Sheehan:
Never going to happen.
Joy Wilson:
No.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay. Now, for a speed round, what is the beverage that you start your morning with?
Joy Wilson:
The very first thing? Okay, I'm a beverage girly.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, love you.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah. The very first thing I drink is a green powder in water with unsweetened cranberry juice. Not sexy.
Jessie Sheehan:
Not sexy, but feel like you're going back to your health food roots.
Joy Wilson:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
With your mom and dad.
Joy Wilson:
I do have those.
Jessie Sheehan:
Talk to me about everything. So first of all, is it hot water?
Joy Wilson:
No, room temperature.
Jessie Sheehan:
The room temperature, water but the powder will still dissolve?
Joy Wilson:
Well, with one of those little zing, zing, zings.
Jessie Sheehan:
Ah, zoom, zoom, zooms.
Joy Wilson:
You know the frother?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Almost like a little tiny immersion blender.
Joy Wilson:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
So room temp water.
Joy Wilson:
Room temp water.
Jessie Sheehan:
Like a matcha situation?
Joy Wilson:
No, Anima Mundi green powder. They're here in Brooklyn and it's dandelion greens, spirulina, moringa powder.
Jessie Sheehan:
What does cranberry juice bring?
Joy Wilson:
Cranberry juice, unsweetened. What's that good for? I find that it's good for my skin and just my insides. We're like-
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, we're both like-
Joy Wilson:
Motioning it, our torsos.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, both are bringing our fingertips up and down our bodies as we explain that cranberry juice is good for you.
Joy Wilson:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
What is always in your fridge?
Joy Wilson:
Butter, eggs.
Jessie Sheehan:
Love. Salted or unsalted?
Joy Wilson:
Both. We have a butter for every occasion.
Jessie Sheehan:
Of course. And then large eggs?
Joy Wilson:
Large eggs.
Jessie Sheehan:
Nice.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Nice. Somebody asked me today about egg size. When it says egg, what size? I said, standard is large.
Joy Wilson:
Large eggs.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep.
Joy Wilson:
Large eggs for baking, some very sweet people in my neighborhood now bring me their farm fresh eggs, so there's always-
Jessie Sheehan:
Those.
Joy Wilson:
Random farm eggs.
Jessie Sheehan:
But do not bake with them because the sizing's off and it, yes.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, I don't bake with them. Those are my breakfast eggs.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, of course, of course. Favorite baking tool or utensil?
Joy Wilson:
Bench scraper.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, good one, good one. Do you like the flexible one or we're talking the hard one?
Joy Wilson:
Both, I need both.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, of course. A girl needs two bench scrapers. Hello? Treasured cookbook?
Joy Wilson:
So many, hard answer. “The Gourmet Cookbook,” Ruth Reichl's yellow cookbook.
Jessie Sheehan:
Love.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Favorite snack food?
Joy Wilson:
Potato chips.
Jessie Sheehan:
Me too.
Joy Wilson:
Oh my god.
Jessie Sheehan:
What brand?
Joy Wilson:
I'll eat any potato chip. I'll eat any potato chip. I love a kettle cooked. I just ate these French potato chips that were flavored with goat cheese and chili pepper from Zabar’s yesterday.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Joy Wilson:
I took that entire bag to my face, it was gone in minutes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Have you ever had Cape Cod potato chips?
Joy Wilson:
Love them.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's my fav.
Joy Wilson:
Love them.
Jessie Sheehan:
I didn't know if it was regional, but I love Cape Cod potato chips. What are you streaming?
Joy Wilson:
What am I streaming?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, you have to tell us. If you're giggling, you definitely have to tell us.
Joy Wilson:
I watch the worst television possible, so right now I'm streaming "Sister Wives."
Jessie Sheehan:
Dream travel destination?
Joy Wilson:
Dream travel destination. You know what? I've never been to Italy.
Jessie Sheehan:
Favorite smell?
Joy Wilson:
Jasmine, because it reminds me of Los Angeles.
Jessie Sheehan:
So nice.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Final question. If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Joy Wilson:
Wow, oh my gosh. Food celebrity.
Jessie Sheehan:
I know, food person, if you want it to be your dad, he is a food person.
Joy Wilson:
Yeah, thank you.
Jessie Sheehan:
Or your mom.
Joy Wilson:
Oh, they'd drive me nuts. I'm just kidding, I love them so much.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay. I love it. Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today, Joy.
Joy Wilson:
Jessie, it was just the best.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yay. That's it for today's show. Thank you so much to Joy Wilson for joining me. Check back next week for more Radio Cherry Bombe with Kerry Diamond. The team and I would love for you to follow Radio Cherry Bombe wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave a rating and a review. Let us know what you think about the show and who you would love to hear from on a future episode. And don't forget to check out my podcast, She's my Cherry Pie. Our theme song is by the band, Tralala. Special thanks to CityVox Studio in Manhattan. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Jenna Sadhu. Thanks for listening, everybody. You're the Bombe.