Liz Moody Transcript
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi, everyone. You're listening to Radio Cherry Bombe. Host Kerry Diamond is away, so I'm here to tell you all about the latest episode. I'm Jessie Sheehan, and I'm the host of She's My Cherry Pie, the baking podcast on The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network.
For today's show, Kerry interviewed Liz Moody, the author and journalist behind the new book, “100 Ways to Change Your Life: The Science of Leveling Up Health, Happiness, Relationships & Success.” Liz is also the host of the popular Liz Moody Podcast, and the author of the “Healthier Together” cookbook. Kerry and Liz talk about Liz's new book, her five best pieces of advice, and lots more, from soup to salad to the importance of community and positive aging role models. They clearly cover a lot of ground. Liz is a genius at sharing tips for a healthier life, and you will no doubt come away with some actionable advice. Stay tuned for their chat.
Today's show is presented by California Prunes. If focusing on your health is one of your 2024 priorities, and I hope it is, California Prunes is going to become your new pantry essential. First off, they are a super healthy snack, because they're loaded with nutrients like vitamin K, dietary fiber, potassium, and antioxidants, all of which are good for your heart, gut, and bones. You know how important that is. Also, California Prunes are the perfect snack. They're just the right amount of sweetness, and super portable. I often carry a bag of prunes with me so I don't wind up hangry when I'm out and about in the city and running around, or in the recording studio like today. The second reason, California Prunes are an amazing ingredient in sweet and savory preparations because they're so rich and complex and delicious. Chop up some prunes to top your morning oatmeal, use prunes in any baked good that calls for dried fruit, or try them in an appetizer like devils on horseback. You know those, the warm bacon wrapped prunes that are stuffed with cheese or chutney. I'm always happy when I see those at a party. Or, how about you make a batch of chicken marbella, the luscious entree with prunes and olives and capers from “The Silver Palate” cookbook. Both the recipe and the cookbook are such classics. Once you try them, you'll be swooning over California Prunes in no time. For recipes and to learn more about the health benefits, visit californiaprunes.org, and be sure to look for California Prunes at your favorite supermarket or specialty shop.
Let's do a little housekeeping. The Cherry Bombe team is busy at work on the next issue of Cherry Bombe's print magazine. The theme is ‘Icons.’ Ooh, that's a good one. I can't wait to see who they write about and who's on the cover. If you've never read Cherry Bombe, you are in for a real treat. Each issue has great recipes and stories you'll want to pour over and so much to discover. If you'd like all four of the 2024 issues delivered direct to your door plus free shipping, there's still time to subscribe. Head to cherrybombe.com to get a subscription for yourself, or a gift subscription for your fave foodie.
That's it from me, folks. Now for today's guest.
Kerry Diamond:
Liz Moody, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Liz Moody:
Thank you so much for having me, and in person in this super cool studio.
Kerry Diamond:
And in person we haven't seen each other in so long. Last time we talked to you, it was January 2022, and a lot has changed since then for both of us and for the whole world. We were still in the middle of a pandemic. You were leading a nomadic existence and traveling and working around the country. Where are you today?
Liz Moody:
I have just rented a house in the Bay Area, which I'm so excited about. We are in the process of getting furniture. We're officially ending our nomad life, which if you'd asked me in 2022, I would've been like, we're never going to do that. This is amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
How was the nomadic existence?
Liz Moody:
I loved it. I think it was the perfect thing to do at the time that we did it. We started in May 2020, me and my husband Zack. We were living in New York at the time, and it was awful. We were in this teeny tiny apartment.
And we intended to just go to Colorado for a month to cool off because at that time everybody thought that New Yorkers were spreading Covid. I don't know if you remember that. They were like, "That's ground zero for Covid." Even though it was all over at that time. So we were like, we'll get a little cabin in Colorado so that people won't be so afraid of us and we'll stay there for a month. But then we loved it and just kept doing it, and we stayed in the most beautiful mountain towns all over North America. That's how we found places. We literally Googled, "Most beautiful mountain town," and then we would find an Airbnb there. It was so amazing.
But I've become over that time increasingly interested in the role of community in my life. It started with just this feeling of lack that I couldn't quite put a name to. And then I had Dr. Robert Waldinger on my podcast, and he is the head of the Harvard Study of Adult Development, which is the longest running study of human happiness in existence. And they found in that study that the single biggest predictor of longevity and happiness over the course of one's life is the strength of their community.
And I remember doing this podcast with him and thinking, if that is the most important thing, what am I doing living this life that isolates me from community? And I just started to crave it more and more and more.
I loved it while I did it, but now I'm like, why did I do that? It has no appeal to me anymore, which is so interesting how strongly it's flipped, and how excited I am to have standing Sunday dinner plans with my friends and to go for regular hikes, and just to have that group of people I love around me.
Kerry Diamond:
Why did you pick the Bay Area instead of coming back to New York?
Liz Moody:
Back to the community point, I have a really strong community in New York too. I'd say it's probably my second-strongest community. But we reached such a nexus of community in California that I have never had before in my life. My best friend happened to move out there at the same time as my husband's best friend moved out there, both from New York to the Bay Area.
And I was just like, maybe we won't be there forever. This is something else I've been doing recently. I treat life decisions like little experiments. So instead of having the pressure of where am I going to live for the rest of my life, it's, I'm going to try out the Bay Area, I'm going to see if I like it, I have the capacity to grow and change and evolve, and that's okay.
So it's a little experiment, and it's a great time to do that experiment because we have so many of our people there right now.
Kerry Diamond:
I don't want to throw the whole interview off on a tangent, so we'll only talk about this for a minute, but what you just mentioned and the whole work from home phenomenon, it has so many implications for people who are working from home who, you might not think of your colleagues as your community, but when you are working in an office with people five days a week, they were your community.
Liz Moody:
There's studies that show that people are becoming increasingly dissatisfied with work, and I obviously think there's a lot of things connected to that. There's growing salary gaps and income disparities and things like that. But there's also a lot of robust research around the fact that the number one predictor of workplace happiness is not the job that you do every day, it is the people that you work with and how much you like them.
So if you want to like your job, going and finding your dream job will matter far less than going and finding a job with people that you love to work with. If you have a bestie at work, it shields you against so many different things.
And so by severing ourselves from that relationship, we're increasing our workplace dissatisfaction. And I don't think that necessarily has to be solved by let's get everybody in the office. But I do think if people are working from home, they need to be aware of creating that sense of community elsewhere. Maybe they get together with friends a few days a week and they all work together in a space, and those become their new colleagues, even if they're doing different jobs.
Every situation I think has pros and cons, and we're so intent on finding what is the best situation? How do we find the best thing? And instead, I think we should be asking ourselves, what are the pros and cons of my situation, and how can I begin to mitigate those cons?
Kerry Diamond:
That is a great segue into talking about your book. You have a brand new book, congratulations. “100 Ways to Change Your Life.” That's a fantastic title. The title says it all. But there are a lot of self-help books out there. Why should we trust this one?
Liz Moody:
I call myself a self-help author for people who don't really like self-help. Although my husband has pointed out that people who do like self-help also like my books. But people who don't typically gravitate towards the category in general really tend to enjoy my work, because I hate the type of book that's like, "You can do it, and I believe in you." And you read it and it's almost like candy where you feel good while you're reading it, and then afterwards you're just like, what do I actually do now? It's like cotton candy. It's dissipated completely the second that you finished chewing.
I did not want to write a book like that. I wanted to write a substantive meal of a book, A book that would satisfy you and that would use real science and answer the question, what do I actually do? So we have a hundred tips in the book in 18 categories, so it spans all different parts of your life. And every single tip is the science behind that thing, and then an action step so you can begin to apply that thing to your life. So you're getting real results on every single page.
Kerry Diamond:
And I love how digestible the book is. The chapters, it's 100 things as you promised in the title, and none of them are more than a few pages.
Liz Moody:
Yeah, four to five pages. New moms tell me constantly that it's their favorite book because they have about that much time to read. They're like, I got five minutes to read. And I love it too. It's somebody who's trying to really cut back on my social media usage. So I'd find myself, in the time that I'm waiting for my pasta water to boil, instead of reaching for your phone, you can reach for a book like this. I love those quick digestible tidbits. You can jump in at any point. You don't need to remember the previous parts. You can jump in on page 120 and you're good.
Kerry Diamond:
That's true. You don't have to follow the order of the chapters. But the chapters are so useful too. I highly recommend this if you grab Liz's book, which you all should. Just go in there with a pencil, if you still own a pencil, and just check the ones that you think are applicable to you and just jump around the book.
Liz Moody:
Well, and different ones are going to be applicable to you at different times in your life. So there might be a time in your life where you're feeling more lonely. You're wanting that community a little bit more. We have a section that's how to make friends and deepen your friendships.
There might be another time where you're like, my biggest challenge right now is that my gut is all messed up and I can't go a day without having stomach pain. We have a section about how to make your gut feel great.
So I really wanted it to be a resource, similar to your question of there's so many self-help books out there, I wanted this to stand the test of time because we're going to experience different challenges and want to work on different things over different periods of our life.
Kerry Diamond:
And I will say at this point that neither Liz nor I is a doctor.
Liz Moody:
No. No. And we say that in the book. Although I will say this advice is not... Some of the advice is coming from me, the mindset stuff, and I view myself as an expert in digesting expert information, vetting it, and then sharing it in a way that's really understandable, that's fun. I feel like a lot of science can feel really dry. This does not feel dry at all. But the information in the book is coming from world-class experts, researchers, and doctors. And then on top of that, we vetted their information. It's highly a cited book. And I'm very proud of that.
Kerry Diamond:
Right. Which I was going to say, I mean, everything is backed by experts and research and studies. I marvel at how you digest all the information that's out there.
Liz Moody:
Oh, thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
And deliver it back to us in a really, really usable fashion. You mentioned that you can jump into the book and pick a chapter based on what you're going through in your life right now. It's January. A lot of us are thinking about resolutions. Not everyone likes to make resolutions. I do personally. But I'm curious, as someone who helps other people improve their lives, what are your thoughts on resolutions?
Liz Moody:
January is actually a great time to make a resolution. There's incredible research from Dr. Katie Milkman, who's from Wharton, and it's about the fresh start effect. And that's the idea that at these fresh start moments in our lives, we're going to experience a surge of motivation that's going to make us more likely to stick to our goals.
However, fresh starts don't only happen on January 1st. I think we feel the heatiness of the January 1st fresh start as a society. But a fresh start can be the first of the month. A fresh start can be a Monday. A fresh start can be, I've been working in this cafe for the last week and I'm going to work in a different cafe. Anything that you can do to essentially say, "I'm no longer the same person that I was as I was before."
But one of my favorite fresh starts is actually buying a new book. And I think we've all felt that sensation of, oh my gosh, I'm armed with all this information that I didn't have before. Who knows what direction my life can take now?
So my thoughts on New Year's resolutions are it's a great moment to evaluate your life. I think that building in these benchmarks to reflect, to look backward, to look forward, all these things are wonderful. But it's not the only time, so don't feel pressure.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you have any New Year's resolutions?
Liz Moody:
I do. It's not a resolution so much, but I want to build more play and enjoyment into my life this year. Last year was a very hard work year for me. I wrote the book, I released the book. I didn't have a real weekend for a year.
And so this year I want to feel a sense of ease and joy and playfulness that I've been missing.
Kerry Diamond:
And your podcast is crushing it.
Liz Moody:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
It's now called The Liz Moody podcast.
Liz Moody:
The Liz Moody podcast, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
And you're burning up the charts.
Liz Moody:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Which I look at because podcasting is a big part of what I do for a living. So congratulations, you're reaching a lot of people.
Liz Moody:
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm really proud of the podcast. It is my favorite thing that I do. It's the thing that I spend the most time on. And I think it's also a place where you can get the best information. Social media is great, but you can never fit the nuance and the level of expertise and information into a one-minute clip as you can onto a podcast.
Jessie Sheehan:
Kerry will be right back.
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Now back to Kerry's guest.
Kerry Diamond:
Mocktails. Let's talk about them because you are a mocktail queen.
Liz Moody:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
There's so much stuff on your Instagram, which I love. But you have some specific thoughts about mocktails.
Liz Moody:
I do. And I will get comments occasionally that are like, "This is just juice. Why is this a mocktail?" And I'm like, I actually have a very good response for this because I've put a lot of thought into it.
So for me, a mocktail needs to mimic a lot of the effects that you get with alcohol. Juice is way too sweet. It's way too cloying. It's not going to give you that same richness, that complexity, that nuance that you get with alcohol. So I use specific ingredients to mimic that. So I have a mocktail that's going to be coming up shortly, and that uses lemon, and you blend the entirety of the lemon with the pith and the rind. So you're getting that bitterness and that interesting note that you would sometimes get with alcohol.
I use teas a lot in my mocktails. I think teas are a really, really good ingredient to give tannins, to give just a little bit of that interest, that bitterness that you would get with an alcoholic beverage.
Also, alcoholic beverages have a really interesting sense of body. So often I'll use aquafaba, which is the liquid from strained chickpeas. And you shake that in and you'll get a really beautiful amount of body. I'll use vinegars, which add a beautiful, beautiful note to mocktails. Apple cider vinegar or really interesting shrubs that you can buy. I love Sideyard Shrubs. It does-
Kerry Diamond:
I was just going to mention them. I was like, I need to get you a bottle of that. And they're from California.
Liz Moody:
They're from California. I found them at a farmer's market in Ojai, and I just became such a fan. They use farm fresh ingredients to make flavored vinegars and with an apple cider vinegar base. And I love that just with sparkling water. A little bit of a blueberry shrub in it is the perfect drink if you just want a quick little something that's going to make you happy.
Kerry Diamond:
Where can people find your mocktail recipes?
Liz Moody:
So those are all on my Instagram, which is @lizmoody.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. We are going to talk about your top five pieces of advice. I know you have 100 pieces of advice in the book. So folks, if you want the missing 95, you can get Liz's book. As someone who really feels like you've made my life better, I know that you have some pieces of advice that you have repeated over the years that you truly feel people should follow, and that you do follow yourself.
Liz Moody:
I truly don't believe that any advice works for everybody. One of the reasons the book is even constructed the way that it is because I don't think there's a single advice book you could give to everybody and be like, oh, this is applicable to you. So I wanted to give people a pu pu platter of a bunch of different tips where they could choose the things that mattered to them. Because everybody has different habits, everybody has different goals.
So with that in mind, my first piece of advice is going to be find your why. This is one of the earliest tips in the book, and it changes everything when you start to really think about the reason behind anything that you're doing. You need a why that's not just like, "I saw a person on Instagram do it." Or, "Society tells me that if I were skinnier, I would be more lovable." Those are not motivating whys for me. I couldn't start a workout routine for years. I was in my thirties. I was the only person who worked at this health magazine that I worked at who didn't work out ever. Everybody was like, "What's wrong?" I don't know. I don't know.
But it was because whenever I worked out, I was lifting up my shirt to body check my stomach. I was looking at my thighs and being like, did they get smaller? Did they get smaller? And of course they didn't on a day-to-day basis.
So when I switched my workouts to being about how I felt, everything changed. When I noticed that on a day that I moved my body, I felt calmer, I felt less stressed, I felt more energetic, and those are real results you feel in the moment, I was able to stick to a workout routine almost instantaneously because I craved that feeling. So that was a why that resonated with me.
If we don't find our why, we bloat our days with things we do not have time for. That's how you end up with your 15-step morning routine, your 10-step evening routine, and you feel stressed about trying to make your life better, which is never the goal. And you spend a ton of money.
So I want people for any supplement they're going to take, any habit they're going to add in, have a concrete why for it, and make sure that why resonates with you. That's number one.
Kerry Diamond:
How do the why’s differ from goals?
Liz Moody:
So a goal would be I want to lose 15 pounds. A why would be I want to feel more energetic in my body. This workout makes me feel more energized. So I think a goal can still not have a reason behind that goal. If a goal has a reason behind it, great. But if a goal doesn't have a reason behind it, then it is lacking a why.
Number two, let's do, never be the one to say no to yourself.
Kerry Diamond:
My favorite.
Liz Moody:
This is one of my life mantras. It is the reason that I have achieved everything that I've achieved in my life. And the idea isn't that the world is going to all of a sudden say yes to you. That's not true. That's just not how the world works. But the idea is that you are never going to be the one to say no to yourself. If you want to apply for a job, instead of sitting there and saying, "I'm not qualified. I don't know if they'll take me," you apply to the job and let them tell you no. Because more often than you think, you'll get the answer yes.
My first book deal, I was in no way qualified for. But I was like, I'll let them reject me. If they want to reject me, that's their prerogative. And they didn't reject me, and that book deal changed the entire course of my life. Since sharing never be the one to say no to yourself, I have gotten messages from people who have met their life partners, who have gotten engaged, who have gotten their dream jobs, who have gotten tens of thousands of dollars of raises, who've gotten their dream houses. Just go out there and find somebody else to say no to you. So we'll do that one.
Kerry Diamond:
That is the best one. I am so guilty of that a hundred times a day.
Liz Moody:
We all are. We all are.
Kerry Diamond:
We're raising money for the first time for Cherry Bombe, I don't know if you've done that exercise yet. It's interesting.
Liz Moody:
I have seen, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
And Liz and I were talking about humbling experiences earlier. Definitely raising money is a humbling experience. And we're doing it through the Wefunder platform. And there are a lot of people who I was like, oh, I would love for them to be investors in Cherry Bombe. And I was like, but they'll never say yes. So I finally just put my big girl pants on and sent the email and was like, you know what? It's not personal. Investing is not necessarily a thing that you should take personally. And I sent the emails. And one of the people said yes. And I was like, there you go.
Liz Moody:
Isn't that wild? It's so interesting. I went through my following list on Instagram one day, and I have a number of celebrities who follow me, and I was like, I wonder if I should just message them and ask if they want the book. And I was like, no, that's crazy. And then I did it, and every single one was like, "Oh my gosh, of course. Please send it. I'm so excited to read it." Every single one. So I do think crazy things can happen when you don't say no to yourself.
Kerry Diamond:
Check how many times in the course of a day you say no to yourself, and I think you might be shocked.
Liz Moody:
That's such a great actionable way of putting it. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, number three.
Liz Moody:
Let's do rewire your neural pathways for happiness. This is one of my favorite tips because it's so actionable and you can do it all day long and it really, really works. It's from Dr. Rick Hanson at UC Berkeley. The idea is this. Our brains like to take the path that they have tread the most before. Our literal neurons like to fire down the pathways that they have fired the most before. Essentially, if you've heard the expression, neurons that fire together wire together. That's what's happening here.
So when we're thinking all of these negative thoughts all day, I'm stressed. I hate my body, I hate my job, I hate my life, we're essentially priming our brain to think more negative thoughts in the future.
The way that we can combat this in a very, very pragmatic and actionable way is to find the moments that feel really good, a really special positive moment. It doesn't even need to be huge. It can be, wow, I'm having a really great conversation with Kerry. I love this. I'm in a cool historic building, I love this. What a beautiful sunset. This flower smells good. This food tastes delicious. You find these positive moments in your life, and you notice them first of all, and then you amplify that feeling. You really are like, oh, this conversation. Oh, this bite of food. And then you sit in that for five seconds. You dwell in it a little bit longer than you normally would.
And what you're doing in that process, and this has been tested, this is real science, you are making that neural pathway stronger so the next time that your brain is trying to decide what thought should I think, it's going to think the more positive one.
So it's a really easy way to, without any work in the moment and without any false positive happiness, you're actually priming your brain to think more positive thoughts.
Kerry Diamond:
Are there things you can surround yourself with to make that easier? Are there some positive triggers that you can put in your environment?
Liz Moody:
So this isn't a thing. I would say the things are going to be different for everybody. Different things are going to make you happy versus make me happy. Somebody might like a really uncluttered space. Another person might like a lot of photos.
But something that people don't think about is you can surround yourself with people who are going to make that much, much easier. You can surround yourself with the people who are saying the things constantly, who are wiring their brains and yours for negativity, or you can be around the people who make that sense of ease and joy and happiness come a little bit easier. And I'm not saying when your friends are going through a hard time, ditch them. But I think we all know the people where every single time we hang out with them, we feel a little bit worse than before. There's actually something happening neurologically there.
Kerry Diamond:
And I think you can also apply that to the media you consume. Social media, podcasts, etc. Don't follow accounts that trigger these negative thoughts or trigger feelings about yourself that are less than.
Liz Moody:
And I think that's a really good lead-in to a number four, which is that every single expert that I've interviewed has one thing in common, and that is that they have a very solid boundary with the way that they consume the news. Not a single person that I've ever had on my podcast, these are world-class performers, these are top doctors studying our brains, studying our bodies, not a single person consumes news as entertainment. Not a single person is just like, I'm going to just leave the TV on and have the news on in the background. I'm going to scroll and get my news that way.
They all have an intentional plan, whether that's a series of podcasts that they listen to, whether that's studying a timer and scrolling through trusted sites, whether that's getting the news in long form articles or books or from a trusted source. They have a plan in place for the way that they're consuming news.
Because I think it is so important to be informed, especially in today's world. But we conflate that with the attention economy that news sites and news websites and newscasts and all these things are taking advantage of. They're taking advantage of our attention to make money. And there is a huge difference between falling prey to that and being informed. And every single top performer that I've interviewed recognizes that.
Kerry Diamond:
That is fascinating. You have admitted though, I can't remember whether it's in your book or on your podcast or Instagram, to the doom scrolling. A lot of us do right before bed, which when you think about it, is the worst thing we could be doing.
Liz Moody:
Yeah. For sure. I do. And so for me, I keep my phone out of the bedroom. We act, if we just had a little bit more willpower, we would be able to not reach for our phone. That's not true. It's simply not true. Our brains are not designed to have the amount of willpower that it takes to combat how addictive that device is designed to be, from the way that it is constructed to every person at every media site who's trying to get your attention in every single moment.
So take the willpower out of it. You are not a failure. You just need to remove it from the equation. So I plug my phone in the other room. I only bring my book to bed. And it's changed my life.
Kerry Diamond:
Reading before bed is a game changer.
Liz Moody:
I'll wake up in the morning and I'll have this big smile on my face. And I'll be like, wait, why do I feel so good today? And it's literally because I fell asleep reading, instead of fell asleep scrolling,
Kerry Diamond:
Definitely reading a book helps me fall asleep better, and just is so much better for my mental health.
Liz Moody:
I do think I've Pavloved myself a little bit though, because if I try to read in the afternoon, I could do about 20 minutes, and then I fall asleep. But that's true whether it's 10:00 AM or 10:00 PM. So if I try to read on my lunch break, I'm just like, all right, I'll fall asleep now.
Kerry Diamond:
It's nap time. Okay, what are we up to? Four, five?
Liz Moody:
I think we're five, yeah. So for five, I'm going to end us on a really positive note, which is think about your death. I have three tips in the book. So I said earlier that we can skip around. You can do the things that are important to you. But I ask everybody to read the first three tips in the book. And one of those is think about your death. And it's not as morbid as it sounds.
Thinking about your death, thinking about yourself at the end of your life, lends a really beautiful perspective to our lives into the ways that we spend our moments. If you can picture yourself at 85, you can come back and say, what will I wish that I spent my time on today? What will I feel really silly for worrying about? It's how I've gotten over so many of my little fears.
It's not a little fear, but I have a lot of childhood trauma that's led me to have a pretty intense fear of flying. And picturing myself at the end of my life wishing I had said yes to the opportunities, wishing I had those adventures, wishing I'd chosen the bigger life for myself, has been pivotal in me overcoming my fear of flying.
It also has been pivotal for me enjoying little moments like when you're at the beach. When you're 85, are you going to be like, wow, I wish I'd spent more time worrying about how my body looked in a bikini? Or you're going to be like, I wish I'd enjoyed the sand in my toes and the sound of the water and being with these people that I loved in my life who might not even be with me anymore at this age.
It really changes how you live on a day-to-day basis, and it's been transformative for me. So I'll say that as five.
Kerry Diamond:
You know what you can do along with that exercise, is write your own obituary.
Liz Moody:
Oh, that's a good one. Have you done that?
Kerry Diamond:
Well, I used to have to write obituaries for a living. No, I haven't written my own, but I guess I've written a bio, which is not the same thing. No, when I was starting out as a young reporter, I used to have to write obituaries.
Liz Moody:
That's so interesting.
Kerry Diamond:
And I always thought to myself, oh, if only these people had had the opportunity to write their own obituary, it would've been so much better. Because sadly, you're talking to grieving families, they're not always in the right frame of mind to answer those questions. So we would have to write these obituaries that I knew weren't as rich and reflective of the person's life.
Liz Moody:
And that's such a good reminder too, to ask the people in your life for their stories now. Just ask your parents for their stories. Ask your grandparents for their stories. Ask your sister, ask your brother, ask your friends. Just ask for the stories now, because you never know at any age when it'll be too late.
Kerry Diamond:
That's great advice. Liz, is there anything you've changed your thinking on over the past few years because of research?
Liz Moody:
There's so many things that it's almost hard to narrow it down, but I'd say one big one that impacts me on a regular basis is instead of looking for one miracle solution, I've realized how much we are the cumulative effect of everything that we're doing. And a really nuanced specific example of that is there's research from the American Gut Project about how the single biggest predictor of whether we'll have a healthy gut microbiome, which our gut microbiome impacts not just our gut, but our hormones, our mood. So many parts of our body. Our microbes are all over. We have more of them than we have cells.
The single biggest predictor of that is the diversity of plants in our diet. So it's not a single, kale is the miracle superfood, you should eat quinoa, you should eat Brussels sprouts, as the media has tried to kind of make it into over the years. It's how many different types of plants are you getting?
And I think that's true for eating, but it's also true for life. How are all of my habits, how are all my thoughts, how are all these things working? How are my relationships working together to build the life that I want?
And it's actually one of the reasons I constructed the book in the way that I did is I had the realization that there's so many great books about gut health. There's so many great books about mental health. There's so many great books about relationships. But our gut health impacts our mental health. Our mental health impacts our relationships. Our relationships impact our mental health. They all impact each other. So I wanted to write a book that spoke to all of them so we could have that circular effect of positivity.
Kerry Diamond:
Everything is a connected system.
Liz Moody:
Everything is a connected system.
Kerry Diamond:
You talked about food. You share a lot of food content. Thank you for that. You put out a lot of free recipes. You are a soup, smoothie, and salad queen. What are you loving and making right now?
Liz Moody:
So I've started doing this thing called salad toppers, which I essentially take my tiny, I have one of those little tiny food processors, and I'll chop up pistachios, some type of herb, and some sort of spices and some salt and garlic. And I'll make a crumbly olive oil free pesto. And then you can use that, you can sprinkle it on soups, you can sprinkle it on salads. And it adds texture. It adds more plants to the diversity of plants conversation. It adds more flavor.
And you can just keep it in a little jar in your freezer, which is great. If you spread it out on a parchment-lined pan and freeze it, and then you can put it in a little jar so you can sprinkle it on everything afterwards and have it at the ready. So good.
Kerry Diamond:
Great advice. Your old chestnut of one green thing every day has always helped me. I'm like, oh, I didn't eat one green thing today. Liz would not be happy. And by one green thing, Liz does not mean green M&M's or Shamrock Shake. She means a real green thing.
Liz Moody:
You can have that too. Diversity.
Kerry Diamond:
What foods do you think should always be in our fridge or pantry? I know you said diversity of foods, but there are definitely some foods that you always want.
Liz Moody:
Yeah. In the fridge, I'd say something fermented. Fermented food is one of the best things for us, but it also makes everything taste really delicious. So I play around with different... I have a fermented carrot and juniper blend in my fridge right now. But I think you can find really good stuff at the farmer's market, and more and more than ever in the grocery stores too. So something fermented that you can put on salads, that you can finish dishes with, you can put on tacos. And then-
Kerry Diamond:
Are you a kimchi fan?
Liz Moody:
I love kimchi.
Kerry Diamond:
I love kimchi.
Liz Moody:
So good. I just think if a dish is missing a note, often adding a ferment to it will really help. And then in the pantry, I would say just spices and fresh spices because if they've been in there for more than a year, you're not getting the benefits from them, the health benefits, and you're also not getting the flavor from them. So I would say only stock what you need. You don't need to go buy one of those... I hate those spice kits that are like 50 spices. Here's your spice pantry. Figure out the ones you're using in recipes over and over and stock those. But have a set of spices. I think very few dishes should be spice-free.
Kerry Diamond:
Have spices and use your spices and use your spices.
Liz Moody:
And use your spices.
Kerry Diamond:
They're not decorative.
Liz Moody:
And use them for things you wouldn't think. Could your salad dressing use some cinnamon? Could your smoothie use a little bit of cardamom? Your soup, I love a savory soup with a little bit of cardamom, a little bit of cayenne in it. I think that very few dishes could not benefit from some spices.
Kerry Diamond:
I have two good spice tips, because I just redid my spice drawer. A few years ago, I did a story for InStyle Magazine with Jenna Lyons and Missy Robbins. And Missy taught Jenna how to make, I don't know, carbonara or something. And we were in Jenna's kitchen. And she pulled out her spice drawer, and all her spices were laid flat instead of in a cabinet upright. And I was like, that is a game changer.
So I went home. And I think I had one of the drawers that pull out and I had, I don't know, foil and wax paper and parchment paper, and I don't know, rubber bands and miscellaneous things in it. I took those out, put them in a different drawer. Now all my spices are flat so I can see everything,
Liz Moody:
Every single one.
Kerry Diamond:
And I date the spices. So when I get my spice, I take out my Sharpie, like everybody has in the kitchen of a restaurant, and I put the exact month and year that you get the spice. Because spices are not meant to last forever.
Liz Moody:
And one of the key rules, to your first point, of habit formation, is that which we see is that which we are more likely to do. So if you have one of those spice cabinets where it's layers on layers, you can't see what's in the back, you're not going to be using those spices. And I say this is somebody who lived in a 500 square foot apartment in New York, and I still had every single spice that was out so I could see each bottle.
Kerry Diamond:
What is your most popular recipe?
Liz Moody:
It's some mocktail. The mocktails get 6 million views. And sometimes it's people who are like, "That's a juice." The haters. But I'm like, thank you so much for hating on the recipe. You are expanding its reach, and I appreciate you.
Kerry Diamond:
I did spot one recipe in one of the chapters that I read.
Liz Moody:
I think I only have one recipe in the book.
Kerry Diamond:
I found the one recipe.
Liz Moody:
You found the one. Well, I also have one, so in the part that is about increasing the diversity of plants in your diet, I suggest no recipe recipes, like quick little ways you can add plants in. But I have one recipe and it's free. It's for a gut healing, immune supporting soup from a gut doctor. And it's incredible. It's so good. It's her go-to soup that she makes whenever she's sick, and I've started making it whenever I'm sick. And it's also really easy because you just dump a bunch of stuff in a pot and then you blend it. But it's really beautiful. It's got turmeric and leeks and...
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Is there a motto or mantra that you swear by?
Liz Moody:
I have a few. Since we did never be the one to say no to yourself, I'll do your body is for living, not looking. It's something I tell myself so, so regularly.
I was just on the Today Show. And it was so interesting for me, even as a person who has done so much work on my relationship and my perception of my body, that being on national television in that way triggered this sort of like, how does my body look? Blah blah, blah. And then I was like, your body is going on the “Today Show” to spread your message. This is the ultimate your body is living, and you're ruining it by focusing on the looking. So it's a real motto for me because it's something I still have to remind myself of, but it still helps every time I do.
Kerry Diamond:
And congrats on the “Today Show” appearance.
Liz Moody:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
I know we don't know each other that well, but I know what a big accomplishment that is.
Liz Moody:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
And as someone who's followed your career for a long time, I know that's a big deal.
Liz Moody:
It is a big deal. I was very proud.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, speed round. What beverage do you start your day with?
Liz Moody:
I've been doing what I call breakfast mocktail. I'm not like a big powder girly, but I've been really enjoying this as a way to start my day, which is I take half a packet of electrolytes, I use the LMNT ones, and then I take some colostrum, which I use the ARMRA one, and I blend it together with my little mini frother. And I blend those together, and it tastes really good. You're getting the electrolytes. You're starting your day with a little bit more hydration. And the ARMRA I've been really enjoying for it's immune-supporting properties, especially because I'm on this crazy travel schedule. And it's just fun. I feel like I'm having a fun beverage to start my day.
Kerry Diamond:
A favorite cookbook?
Liz Moody:
You know what I just got, and I'm really excited about this. This is my first coffee table book that I've bought in my new house, and it's my first cookbook as well. And it's called “Zero” and it's from Alinea, and it's their mocktail book. And some of them are crazy. You're like steeping bubblegum to make a syrup to put in your things or whatever. But I wanted to see how they were building those really complicated, interesting flavors because I'm fascinated with that process. Because I am not making juice, I'm making interesting mocktails.
Kerry Diamond:
Most used kitchen implement?
Liz Moody:
Outside of knives. Does everybody say knives? I just feel like I use my knives constantly. So probably my knives. And then I use my Vitamix pretty regularly.
And then I will say, I think it's from Ninja, and it's my little chopper, and it's like a tiny food processor. And I have my big real food processor that you're supposed to have in a nice kitchen. But I use that tiny chopper constantly. I use it for my salad toppers. I use it for pestos. I use it for dressings. I use it all the time because it's so tiny and so you don't need to have as much stuff in it to make it blend. And it also, because it's not that powerful, you're not making nut butter, you're making a salad topper at the most.
Kerry Diamond:
I might have to invest in that. I had a small food processor once, but the blade was so sharp and so tiny, I actually practically chopped my finger off once. So it scared me off things like that.
Liz Moody:
No, I haven't hurt myself yet. And I'm terrified of pizza cutters. So I'm a scared person in the kitchen, and I've been fine.
Kerry Diamond:
So no mandolins?
Liz Moody:
No. Oh my god.
Kerry Diamond:
Those are terrifying.
Liz Moody:
But pizza cutters I think, they're blades all around.
Kerry Diamond:
That's a good point.
Liz Moody:
They're blades all around. They go all around.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm less scared of them than the mandolin. But Nigella Lawson talked about this glove she has. It's like this “Game of Thrones” glove. I think sometimes people use them when they're shucking oysters. She uses that when she uses her mandolin.
Liz Moody:
I just don't even... I don't need things that thin. I'm cool.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite food movie?
Liz Moody:
So I don't know if this is my favorite, but it's one that I enjoyed a lot recently. It's “The Menu,” with Ralph Fiennes and...
Kerry Diamond:
Liz Moody, that can't be your favorite food movie.
Liz Moody:
It's a little grim. But I remember thinking whilst everybody was dying, spoiler alert, that the food looked really good. It was really interesting food. And I'm a person who, my husband and I, for our anniversaries, we don't buy each other presents, we'll do either a mini honeymoon. Our friends Vanessa and Xander Marin, who are really famous sex experts, she's a sex therapist and he's a regular dude, but they call it their endless honeymoon. So for their anniversary every year, they do a trip and make it really romantic. And Zack and I will either do that, which we've stolen from them. Or we'll do a very high end restaurant instead of gifts where it has a beautiful tasting menu.
And when I can't actually go to them, I like to just go and read the menus online or look at the Yelp reviews where people have the pictures. I love seeing... I made a savory black and white cookie. I just think that's fascinating. And so “The Menu” had really good-looking food. I don't know if I'd eat there.
Have you seen that there's a restaurant in Norway that looks like it's out of “The Menu?”
Kerry Diamond:
I have. Yes.
Liz Moody:
I'm like, I want to go. That sounds great.
Kerry Diamond:
That movie traumatized me slightly though. If I can recommend something different, “The Taste of Things” with Juliette Binoche. It's a French film, but it is all the beautiful food minus the murder.
Liz Moody:
With less the murder.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. Okay, snack food of choice?
Liz Moody:
It changes all the time. So either crispy roasted chickpeas. I have a barbecue chip chickpea recipe. Or just a Simple Mills cracker with thinly sliced apple and thinly sliced grass-fed cheddar.
Kerry Diamond:
Yum. Favorite smell?
Liz Moody:
Creosote. Do you know what that is?
Kerry Diamond:
No.
Liz Moody:
It's a plant in Arizona and in parts of the Southwest, and it's the way the desert smells after the rain. So when you get that post-monsoon smell, it's because the creosote oils are releasing and it smells wet. It is a scent that smells wet and like the desert after the rain. And I grew up in Arizona until I was in middle school, and it's my favorite smell in the world. I love it.
Kerry Diamond:
How interesting. I mean, you I wrote about beauty products and fragrance for a long time. I don't remember ever writing about that. Is it something they use in fragrances?
Liz Moody:
I don't know if they use it in fragrances. My favorite way to have it is there's a site called, I think it's called Desert Rosie. Look up Desert Rosie Tucson or something like that. And she has shower hangings that are bundles of creosote. You put it in your shower, and then every time you shower, it steams your shower, and it smells like the desert after the rain.
Kerry Diamond:
Huh. I know a lot of people do that with eucalyptus.
Liz Moody:
This is way better.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. What are you streaming right now?
Liz Moody:
“Real Housewives of New York.”
Kerry Diamond:
Current season?
Liz Moody:
Yeah. So I've never been a Housewife person ever. And it was so interesting for me to be like, oh, I guess if I ever wanted to get into it I could now, because it's a whole new season.
But also, a huge thing in my life is looking for positive aging role models. Having positive views of aging will actually add 7.5 years to your life. We have a tip in the book about that. And one of the best ways to have positive views of aging is to find positive aging role models.
And it sounds silly to say, but “Real Housewives of New York” has a lot of these women who are in their mid-thirties, early-forties. They're thriving. A lot of them aren't married, don't have kids, have made different life choices, and are really happy with those choices. And aren't wandering around and saying like, "Oh, I need to find a husband." Or, "My life's all over." Which is a lot of what you get from society. And I have my husband, I love him. But I love seeing people embracing different choices for their lives. And “Real Housewives” has been that for me. So I've been really enjoying it.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. Positive aging role models. Our next issue of Cherry Bombe magazine is all bad icons.
Liz Moody:
Oh, I love that.
Kerry Diamond:
So we're going to have a lot of people who hit that positive aging role model category.
Liz Moody:
Yeah. I'll have that be out in my coffee table.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. If you ruled the world, Liz Moody, what's the first thing you would do or decree?
Liz Moody:
I'm not sure what the path would be, but it would be something about income inequality. This is a pet peeve issue, but I hate the fact that house taxes are tied to school districts. I think it perpetuates income inequality in the country. And I think it's insane that we do that. You're richer so your school gets more money. That just feels wild to me that we're universally okay with that.
So maybe a small thing I would do is all of your house taxes would go into a general pool, and then all of the schools would get the same amount of money.
Kerry Diamond:
If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Liz Moody:
I'm going to say a friend because I feel like it's easier if you're with a friend. So I'll say Justine Doiron. Justine Snacks is how many people probably know her. She's been on this podcast.
But I feel like she'd make me really good food, but she'd also be very calming as a presence. It wouldn't feel uncomfortable. We don't have to get through that getting to know each other phase.
I can talk to her for a really long time, and I think we would entertain each other with stories. But we wouldn't get mired in the depression of like, oh, we're on a desert island. Will we be rescued?
Kerry Diamond:
I like that you're looking at being stuck on a desert island as an extended vacation.
Liz Moody:
Yeah, I've rewired my neural pathways for good so much that I can't help but see it as such.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, Liz Moody, thank you so much. Congratulations on your book. I hope everybody goes out and gets it. Thank you for all the wonderful advice you've put out in the world. It has certainly made my life better.
Liz Moody:
Oh my gosh, that makes me so happy to hear. Thank you so much.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's it for today's show. Host Kerry Diamond will be back next week, and you can find me over at She's My Cherry Pie on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Don't forget, the new season of my show starts Saturday, January 27th. The Radio Cherry Bombe theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazan is the studio engineer for Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center, where this interview was recorded. Special thanks to Steven Tolle and the team at CityVox Studio, where I am right now. Our producer is Catherine Baker, our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu, and our editorial assistant is Londyn Crenshaw.Thanks for listening, everybody. You're the Bombe.