Liza Colón-Zayas Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from New York City. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine.
In honor of “The Bear” season three dropping in just a few days, on Thursday, June 27th, we are airing our interview from last year with actor Liza Colón-Zayas. Liza plays one of my favorite characters on the show, Tina, the tough on the outside, soft on the inside, cook turned chef dealing with change and grief, and learning to find joy in the small moments. I can't wait for you to listen, because I know you'll be as inspired by Liza as I was. She is a model of perseverance. She's worked in theater and appeared in everything from “Law & Order” to “Sex and the City,” but a major recurring role alluded her. Liza, estimates that she's been rejected thousands of times over her decades long career. She told me she will never be casual about the show's success. "I know what it's like to hustle and hustle," she said. Liza is luminous as Tina and has moved me to tears many a time throughout the series. I'm excited to see what's in store for both her and Tina in season three. Stay tuned. If you missed our previous best of “The Bear” episodes with Jeremy Allen White and Courtney Storer, be sure to check them out.
Today's show is presented by Kerrygold, the iconic Irish brand, famous for its beautiful cheese and butter, made with milk from Irish grass-fed cows. If you are new to Kerrygold, lucky you, you have a whole world of butter and cheese to explore. We're going to focus on Kerrygold cheese today, which I love and always have in my fridge. Now that I work from home most days, I'm trying to be intentional about my snacking, and Kerrygold cheese paired with seasonal fruit, is one of my favorite smart snacks. I love Kerrygold Aged Cheddar and Kerrygold Reserve Cheddar, two perfect cheddars as far as I'm concerned, with sliced apples or Asian pears. Kerrygold Dubliner, which is sweet and nutty, goes well with ripe, juicy peaches. And Kerrygold Cashel Blue Farmhouse cheese pairs beautifully with figs and grapes. Add a handful of walnuts or some hearty crackers and it's the perfect thing to tide you over between Zooms, deadlines and emails. If you're snacking on the go, like I do on the days I record radio Cherry Bombe, Kerrygold has made it easy with its new cheese snacks. Throw an apple and a Kerrygold age cheddar cheese snack in your tote bag and you're all set. Visit kerrygold usa.com to learn more about Kerrygold cheese, to browse recipes, and to find a store near you.
Our show is also supported by Le Creuset. Le Creuset is one of the most coveted kitchenware brands around, thanks to their legendary enameled cast iron cookware made in France. I have Le Creuset Dutch oven in white and a small sauce pan in meringue, and I treasure them and use them the time. Now, Le Creuset is inviting us to bring that same sophistication and quality outside, with their Alpine Outdoor collection, specifically designed for cooking over an open flame. This durable, high performance collection will enhance any grilling or backyard barbecuing you have planned for the summer, or maybe all year round if you're one of those folks. There's the Alpine Outdoor skillet, which is so useful and versatile. There's a pizza pan. I know more and more of you are making pizza at home and outdoors in particular. And maybe the most useful of them all, the square grill basket, which is perforated and prevents small items from falling into the grill while still allowing heat and smoke to reach the food for that chargrilled flavor. If you love to grill fish or shellfish or veggies, you know what I'm talking about and why you need this. For more information, head to lecreuset.com, or check out the link in our show notes. Happy grilling everybody.
Now, let's check in with today's guest. Liza Colón-Zayas, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's jump right in. When you first learned about “The Bear” and the role of Tina, what did you think?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
I didn't know anything about it. I was sent a couple of pages. So, I didn't read a script, I didn't know if the person I was speaking opposite, Sydney, I thought Sydney was like a blonde Barbie. I had no idea. And it was during COVID, so it was a tape, so I'm self taping in a bedroom and they dug it. Yada-yada, I booked the pilot, so it was just a pilot then. Obviously, the pilot, episode one, we don't know much about Tina at all. And so, not having cooked in a professional kitchen, I was lost. And there was one day where I went into a pizza joint and it was mostly, all you saw was men front and back, and then this little woman walked out, little Latina woman walked out and they snapped too. I don't even remember what she said. She just barked a couple of things and they were like... And she went right back. And I was like, that's Tina. I don't know what she's doing. I don't know anything, but thank you. So, that's where Tina started.
Kerry Diamond:
I read that pizza place was in Midtown. Do you remember which pizza place it is?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
I don't remember.
Kerry Diamond:
Because I feel like they need a plaque that says, "This is where Tina was born."
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
So, we can make the pilgrimage.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Okay, I got to go on a mission.
Kerry Diamond:
If you spot it again, let us know the address. When you get hired to do the pilot, there's no guarantee the pilot's getting picked up?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
No. I just knew that we were having so much fun. A lot of the actors have theater background and it was just, this was a great script. Chris Storer, Joanna Calo, they're just fun and open, and that permeates the whole set, the crew, the cast, and we just had fun.
Kerry Diamond:
So, you had a sense it would be picked up?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
I didn't get a sense. I thought this is... So, when I saw it edited, I didn't realize how dark and stressful it would be, because we're going through it and then it's like, "Cut," and we're cracking up, we're laughing. It doesn't feel heavy until it does, but it doesn't... For the most part, this is the pilot. So I didn't know, and then we saw the rough cut. He sent us a rough cut a couple months later and my husband, who's an actor, Dave Zayas from “Dexter” and was a retired cop, we're watching it and at the end he was like, "Yo, this was really good, but yo, it stressed me out." That was his response. He has seen some things, but I thought, okay, it's so specific, it's not going to have a wide reach. It's great, but it's shocking.
Kerry Diamond:
So, who was Tina to you in the beginning? Did you develop a backstory for her?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
I try to avoid that. I trust that there was very little information given because I feel like they wanted to see how I rolled and distill that. And I was like, "Let me just play what's on the page." Of course there's got to be a deeper familiarity, and I think I had that, because she's a Frankenstein of the women in my life. I drew from that. I didn't want to paint myself into a corner with pushing it and I learned to just trust them. They know what they're doing.
Kerry Diamond:
Right, because she evolved so much over the two seasons.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
She does. And I cannot take credit for that. I feel like Chris and Joanna, Renee, those writers, they are profound and special, and they paid attention. And they pull things out of me that I didn't know I had in me. I don't sing. I sing in the shower, and they pushed me in that scene to... All right, I don't want to give anything away.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's okay, the karaoke scene?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm shocked to learn you don't sing.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
You had such a beautiful voice in that scene.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Thank you. It worked. My strategy worked.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, you're an actor, so.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
I'm an actor, and so I was really freaked out. And Chris said that it's not about the perfection of it, it's about the vulnerability and that symbolizing the risk taking. I'm like, "Okay, I got to sing this song. I remember this song, but why this song?" And they knew what they were doing.
Kerry Diamond:
You did work in restaurants? Not extensively, but tell us your experience.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah. No, okay. It's really limited, so I'm not trying to want to be seasoned waitress or anything, guys. First I was working the counter at a donut shop in the 70s, and I thought I was really cool, because it was in the village and it was the 70s. So, that was my first overtime in college. I washed dishes. So, I had to be up at the crack of dawn to be on the dish line. After that, I worked counter. And this place, I remember it was called the Great American Deli, or something. That was rough.
Kerry Diamond:
Where was that?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
That was over here down the block from the public library. I got in trouble because I didn't realize it was kosher, I brought in a donut from Dunkin Donuts and I got in trouble. I wasn't a very good waitress. I also waited tables at this little Italian restaurant upstate in Albany where I went to college, and I spilled things. I got orders wrong all the time. I was a catastrophe. Anyway, all of these things, which how I ended up as Tina, it's amazing. But I am familiar with trying to survive, struggling to get things right and learn. And so, I think that's what Tina's trying to do. She's rough around the edges. And I understand, trying to go to the next level.
Kerry Diamond:
We'll be right back. Today's episode is supported by Pernod Ricard, the creators of Conviviality. Pernod Ricard is a worldwide leader in the spirits and wine industry, and embraces the spirit of convivialite as we all should. And is firmly focused on a sustainable and responsible future. Their prestigious portfolio of brands includes classic names, beloved by bartenders and mixologists around the world, from Absolut Vodka, Codigo 1530 Tequila, Jefferson's Bourbon, and Perrier Jouet Champagne just to name a few.
This summer, Cherry Bombe is hitting the road for our outdoor dining and lifestyle celebration, we're calling the Summer Series, and we're so thrilled that Pernod Ricard is partnering with us. Featuring hands-on cooking demos with chefs and drink pairings with mixologists, these celebrations are all about leaning into the summer and soaking up the season and catching up with one another. Tickets are on sale right now at cherrybombe.com. We'll be at Rancho San Julian outside Santa Barbara, on July 12th, at Sound View in Greenport on the North Fork of Long Island, on July 26th, and Crown Jewels in Portland Maine, on August 2nd. To learn more about Pernod Ricard, head to pernod-ricard.com. And don't forget, always drink responsibly.
You said she's a mix of a lot of women in your life over the years, and you so kindly wrote about your grandmother for us, and we'll talk a little bit about her and the holidays. But as soon as you said that, I was like, "Oh, Tina reminds me a little bit of her grandmother." And the story said, everyone called your grandmother the general?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Well thankfully, we, the grandchildren didn't get to have to see that side, but we felt it with our uncles and my dad. She ran a tight ship. And she came to this country in 1919 by boat. Back then Puerto Ricans, they would land in Brooklyn, and then she ended up in Chelsea and working factories and she had eight children. I don't know how she did it. It was a railroad apartment. There would be just endless amount of relatives rolling through all day, and somehow she would just open that little tiny stove, just slice person by person, the lechon, the penne, the roast pork shoulder, and she would, for every person, she would just slice one plate at a time, serve one plate at a time. Where I'm like, "Ah, restaurant. Hang on, put all the silverware down. Que siento." And I lose my mind. And she just was like, boom, planted and everything was amazing.
And so, it's a little bit of her and my other grandmother, who I didn't get to talk to you about. I didn't like food. Now I like food too much, but when I was a kid, it was really hard to get me to eat, and she would just... I don't know, it felt like within minutes she would roll out dough and get me to eat all kind of incredible empanadas, that she would just roll the dough and fry things up. And Farina wasn't the farina we knew here. It's a mixture with egg yolk, and brown sugar, and vanilla and just, it's incredible. And she just figured out ways between the two of them to get me to eat, which I didn't want to eat. That's how the women showed their love. That's how it was done.
My aunt, who was hardcore, Sunday brunch. And it wasn't called brunch, it was just like you come over on Sunday and you eat. It was fried pork chops and these frittatas with avocado, and tostones. It was just what you did. Right after you watch Abbott and Costello, whatever, you sit down at the table and we ate and listened to music. So those women, they were very... I don't know how... There's no way, but they're a combination of them, and my girl from Upper East Side.
Kerry Diamond:
So, “The Bear” debuts quietly in June '22, and becomes a huge hit, culturally. You were surprised?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah. This is the dream. I'm hustling, for decades, struggling actor. Then I've resigned myself that maybe it's not going to be what I dreamed about, but I'm good. I'm still getting great opportunities. I'm going to go to Broadway and I've done a lot of really significant theater in New York and awards. And so, it just doesn't look like the fantasy that 98% of the actors don't realize either. And then this happens, and I'm like, "It's a fluke." And then we get a second season and I'm like, "Well, okay." I will never be casual about it. I know what it's like to hustle and hustle and have something evaporate, or get so close and have it go away. But it's the dream to not only have all of those things aligned, great writing, great cast, and it just keeps getting better. And then Jamie Lee Curtis rolls in and you saw the cameos in the second season, and I'm still pinching myself because that is beyond where my dream was going.
Because you got that dream as a kid and then you see the realities. And even if it looks all hunky-dory on the outside, it's never always as perfect as even how I'm making it sound, but it's pretty close. There's always somebody or something that just has to ruin a good time. And so far, that's not been this situation, and I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop, but it hasn't happened yet. So, this is beyond.
Kerry Diamond:
Beyond your expectations. I'm happy to hear that. Thank you. And I know this is the question everyone wants you to have an answer for, but why do you think the show has resonated the way it has?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Because it's true to a lived experience. I don't think anything about it is trying to find a cheap, easy way to manipulate the audience emotionally. It's about the truth and humanizing these people. So, you're going to get it all if they adhere, and I think they are.
Kerry Diamond:
It's so interesting that folks in the hospitality world love it to the extent that they do, because it rings so true. But then, folks who've never worked in hospitality love this show.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
People approach me whether it's a 20 something Latino who's like, "Oh man, you're my mom. You're just like my mom. I love Tina." What I never expect to hear is, "I love Tina", because she's such a hard head. I guess, as long as people continue to respect the authenticity and the culinary craft.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's go a little deeper with Tina, because you can't help but just actively be rooting for Tina every second of the show. Aside from that young woman you referenced, what is everyone responding to with Tina?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
What I'm hearing a lot is the most basic way is the shift in the comradery with her and Sydney. They love that. And I think, yeah, of course, having comradery between women instead of always having to be competition, Tina's emotional reaction to a dream. I relate to that. Like I said, I had given up on, I'm reaching this level. I had given up on it. And so, that was an organic reaction in that scene. Chris doesn't like to do a lot of retakes, so couple. And so, he was real happy with that. But I feel like, yeah, when I got this pilot, I think people, seeing somebody of a certain age, especially a woman, somebody who typically is invisible in our society, the person you ride the subway with.
Kerry Diamond:
I read in other interviews you've done, you talk about rejection a lot, and you've said you've been rejected more than a thousand times. How have you learned to live with that?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
You just have to. If it's what you really want to do, and I can't do anything else, so I got no other skills.
Kerry Diamond:
You tried waiting tables.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
I tried waiting tables. I was a teaching artist, but I knew I had very limited energy, but I knew I had something special. That is something that whether it was delusional, I was going to hold onto that. Plus, I was getting enough confirmation from people I respected, to keep fighting the fight. You just got to know when to find other hobbies that make you happy and feed your soul, and get therapy. Coño. Get therapy. It doesn't make you a better artist to be constantly suffering and wallowing in your agony. It doesn't. It takes you further away from the craft and from having a well-rounded life, which is what you need to be able to access if you're going to be that kind of artist.
So, I learned that eventually. Many pity parties. Many. You can't believe that you only get one shot. No, you don't. It's a great song, but it's not the truth. There will be other things and you'll grow, and you'll get older. And we don't come with an expiration date, although that's what they make you think. You get better and you got to get better at believing in yourself, and you got to get better at taking care of yourself and finding other things that bring you joy, because even if it's not directly related to the industry, it will be.
Kerry Diamond:
You answered my next question. You've been very honest about the racism and the sexism and the ageism, that you've had to endure in the industry, and I was going to say, how have you dealt with that? But I think you just gave the answer.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah, I think it's changing. I was told that we have reached parody in theater. Yes, we have a long way to go, but I feel, for me, it's still part of the same thing. We have to deprogram ourselves from being inferior, and that's the thing about systemic racism and misogyny is that you are, it's brilliant. It's set up to last generations. And so, millennial-
Kerry Diamond:
Learning?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah. You know what I mean? So yeah, if you're feeling like you're not beautiful enough or interesting enough, or anything enough, learn your history, learn who you come from. You don't know it, not because we didn't build this country and this world, it's because there is active erasure of our power. Learn about it. That's what I felt like, oh, sisters, learn your history. If you want to know the history of this country, what was it? Toni Morrison said, "You don't know the history of this country unless you know the stories of black and brown women." So learn it and stand in your power.
Kerry Diamond:
I read that you only got your first recurring TV role in 2019. Is that true?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Well, I had in treatment, yes. That was the longer ongoing recurring. Before that, on “Law & Order: Special Victims Unit,” it was two episodes. The same character and then a follow-up. So, I guess technically that was my recurrent... Yeah, but it took that long. It took that long.
Kerry Diamond:
Does that just go back to the systemic problems with the industry or because you were in theater?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah, I think it's a combination of a lot of things. We-
Kerry Diamond:
Or in New York, is it harder in New York City, because you're not in Hollywood?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
No, Hollywood is not easier. For me, it wasn't. I feel like because there is a respect for theater here, then there is a wider scope of humanity. And so, the casting people see that. Art is a tricky thing. When it clicks together and it's the right actor to play that person, you can't quite put it into words. Diversity will change depending on whose stories we want to tell and how diverse those are. But when it doesn't click, it just doesn't click, and we can't take that personally. Maybe you can, but for what? Why punish yourself. You just got to trust that the right thing will find you.
Kerry Diamond:
And how nice that you did get a recurring role in something that is art.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
There are lots of fun silly shows, but you're making art.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah. I loved In Treatment before I was on it. I watched all three seasons repeatedly. I watched episodes repeatedly because it felt like I was like, you have two people in a room. There's no special effects. This is theater, and it's wow. So, I used to watch and study. And then to have booked it, and it just feels like you got to believe. You got to believe that there's a little magic sometimes.
Kerry Diamond:
I feel like you've had roles on everything. I looked at your IMDb page and I was like, "My gosh, this is an encyclopedia of television." “Sex and the City,” “Law & Order,” “Dexter,” on and on and on.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
But a lot of things you get cut out of. That's why I don't tell, my mom is like, "Ay, nena, I'm mad at you because you didn't tell me that you was going to be in this television." And I was like, "But ma, I don't set alerts and I don't know, and I never know how much of me they're going to keep." And then with that, because then you tell your family and then you get cut out at a lot of stuff. Then they look at you with that disappointed look like, "Oh, well, that's all they gave you."
Kerry Diamond:
You have no control. It sounds like when you did the pilot for “The Bear,” you had no idea how-
Liza Colón-Zayas:
You have no control.
Kerry Diamond:
... tense and tight it was going to be.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
You have no control. Listen, if you want to make great art, you have no control over how people will receive it. Somebody was talking to me recently and they sounded mad about people who constantly end up doing things to get awards. And I'm like, "You got no control." You have no control over who wants to give you a freaking award. You don't pick, "Oh yeah, I'm going to get this because then I'm..." It doesn't work that way. You're lucky you're getting something.
Kerry Diamond:
You've had an incredible theater career, lots of awards.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Speaking of those awards, tell us about LAByrinth, because LAByrinth Theater Company has been a big part of your career here in New York.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
So in 1992, you had to go out and buy a newspaper call Backstage, if you didn't have an agent, and it would list open calls. And I saw an article that said, "Excellent Latino actors wanted." And I wasn't sure if I was going to go. And so, I had to prepare whatever, get your monologue together, and then call-backs, which meant doing a two person scene. And then you get feedback, and then you got to come back and see how you took those notes. So, it wasn't easy getting at that time. And so, it was born. LAByrinth stood for LAB, which meant Latino Actors Base at that time, because there was a show on Broadway, Death and the Maiden, that was cast, and there was no Latinos. And they said, "Because we couldn't find any-"
Kerry Diamond:
Shocking.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
... "in New York."
Kerry Diamond:
New York City.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
So in protest, John Ortiz and Gary Perez were like, we're going to start our own thing. And they talked to Max Ferra, who ran INTAR, and he had INTAR two, which was basically a rehearsal space in an abandoned theater. And we would meet there weekly to just work on whatever we wanted to work on. And so, Sister Supreme was born out of a writing exercise, write an embarrassing memory.
Kerry Diamond:
And that's your one woman show.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
And that was the birth of it. That one page was when I tried to... I was like, "White people live a different reality, so I'm going to blend in." And it's very tragic, but very funny. Yes, so I tried to bleach my hair and my eyebrows and I look like Bozo, because it came out orange. And the sad part is, when people would stare at me on the street, I thought it was because I look so good, and this is what systemic racism will do to a child. And even though I had progressed so past that, by the time I did this writing exercise, I didn't realize how many stories that was going to lead to, and that turned that one page into a 90 minute, 13 character piece. But then I was like, "Okay, this was therapy and I got it all out and worked it out, so I don't need to reopen the scars for the rest of my life."
Kerry Diamond:
So, you don't perform it anymore?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
No. That's in the past. But it was really healing. It was great for me.
Kerry Diamond:
You went on, you did a lot of other off-Broadway, Broadway-
Liza Colón-Zayas:
A lot of pff-Broadway, yeah. Because I was friends with Stephen Adly Guirgis and Albany States. Stephen Adly Guirgis is a Pulitzer Prize winner. A lot of plays that he wrote, he worked in, Philip Seymour Hoffman directed. So, I was in eight of Steven's plays and a bunch of them that Phil directed. Yeah, so almost everything Steven wrote I was in. He kept validating for me that I had something and Phil kept validating for me that I had something. And so, here we are.
Kerry Diamond:
You mentioned SUNY Albany again, we need to give a SUNY shout out. I graduated from SUNY Plattsburgh. Drove past Albany. I took the bus right past Albany every time I went up to school.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah, I'm sure-
Kerry Diamond:
Made a little bit more snow than you did, although you probably had your fair amount.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
It was good. I was good. I did not feel deprived of the snow and the cold.
Kerry Diamond:
Why did you want to be an actor? When did you first know?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
I always wanted to be. Since I was born, it was just something. I used to love to sing the music to Star Trek, and I would sing it all fall out. My godfather gave me a little toy piano, and I would play it until it broke. And then back in the day was, I don't know if you remember “All My Children.”
Kerry Diamond:
I do. All those ABC soap operas. Are you kidding?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
So, there was this one, Erica Kane, and she was all sassy and over the top and fabulous and mean, and I loved... I wanted to be Erica Kane. So, I would do Erica Kain, and then people would come over and my mom would be like, "Nana, do Erica Kane." I would bust out and start pretending to do Erica Kane monologues, usually arguing with-
Kerry Diamond:
Was that Susan Lucci?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Susan Lucci. The great Susan Lucci. Yep. I don't know. It was just in me. I was like, "I'm going to do that. I'm going to play, make believe. I'm going to be in the TV world." And then it was during... Right before I guess I tried to bleach the hair, was where I realized I don't see any way of ever being in that Pine Valley world. No one in the Pine Valley world, the TV world, looks like me.
Kerry Diamond:
We'll be right back. This episode of Radio Cherry Bombe is also supported by OpenTable. I'm excited to announce that we are on the road this summer with OpenTable for our Sit With Us Community Dinner series, which highlights amazing female chefs and restaurateurs in the Cherry Bombe and OpenTable Networks. How does it work? You can come solo and sit at a Cherry Bombe community table, or bring a friend or two and we will seat you together. Tickets are available exclusively on OpenTable. Learn more about the OpenTable and Cherry Bombe Sit With Us series at cherrybombe.com. Our next dinner is tomorrow, Tuesday, June 25th in Dallas. We'll be gathering at Jose Restaurant with Chef Anastasia Quinones-Pittman. Our dinner on Sunday, June 30th in Portland, Oregon at Nostrana, with Chef Kathy Whims sold out very fast, but we added a few tickets, so you might be able to snag one. And thank you to everyone who joined us in New Orleans at Alma Cafe with Chef Melissa Araujo and at Le Bon Nosh in Atlanta with Chef Forough Vakili. Beautiful food, beautiful people. It has been so much fun.
You did have to get a little bit of culinary training to do Tina?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
A little bit.
Kerry Diamond:
Because Tina's skills are a little rough in the first season.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah, they're very rough. They're very rough-
Kerry Diamond:
Or not rough. She's just set in her own ways.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah, they have-
Kerry Diamond:
She's done things.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
It's the sandwich shop and it's-
Kerry Diamond:
She's done things a certain way.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
A certain way. And the whole environment of the beef is what it is as we see. And so, I was very nervous because Ayo and Jeremy, they've been staging. I didn't have any of that. And they're like, Jeremy is for real, for real. He's Carmy. And so I was like, uhhh. So, they sent me to practice for just five days, and it was real basic, basic. David Waltuck, founder of Chanterelle, and he was awesome. Just, I love him. But the first day I cut up my fingers.
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, on no stage or on set?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
On my first day at culinary class with David, I had no idea how sharp these knives are, that they were so sharp, I didn't feel myself getting sliced. I wish I had sent you the picture of my hands covered in band-aids. And then, I was embarrassed, so I'm trying to hide it. And he's like, notices. He's like, "Yeah, maybe it's good you don't get blood all over the potatoes." Throw it in trash.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, no.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
--Potato, but that was five days.
Kerry Diamond:
I just noticed, you don't have those scars that all the chefs have.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah, I had a few burns. I recently lost the tip right here, recently, trying to be cute in front of my husband. I'm like, "Yeah, so ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta." He's like, "Hun..". No. Yeah, it was this one. It was this one.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you have to go to the hospital?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
No. Thankfully it was more nail than actual flesh. So, I just wrapped it up real good. And he's like, "Honey, be careful." I'm like, oh no, I'm good."
Kerry Diamond:
No emergency room. You're a kitchen badass now.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah. So, then it grew back.
Kerry Diamond:
Put a bandaid on it. Put a glove on.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah, I was nervous because, I think, we had to go to an award show and I was like, "How am I going to glue this fake nail over my pinky-"
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, no. But season two, you go to culinary school, so you've got to get your skills a little sharper. Did you go for a second round of training?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
I didn't get to go to school, actually, but Coco, Courtney Storer spent a lot of time with me in my kitchen and she's just the best. Mostly, we focused on making stocks and filleting fish. There was a lot of brands filleting, a lot of brands filling. She's the best. I love her. She is our culinary consultant and Chris Storer's sister, and she's phenomenal.
Kerry Diamond:
Courtney's amazing. She been on-
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Love you, Courtney.
Kerry Diamond:
She's been on the show a few times.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Loved her.
Kerry Diamond:
Would you like to go stage in a fancy kitchen one day?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
I did a few days, but I was just allowed to stand wedged between the nook at a contra, which is not just recently closed. And I didn't want to, I'm like, "This choreography right here..." Because it's such a tiny little kitchen. I was like, "I would be a catastrophe and get in the way, so let me just watch." And I would spend hours each day just watch... They let me clean herbs and that's good. I was good. I was like, you start like forks, you got to start. You start where you start. So, that's what I did, and I learned so much.
I feel that I learned what was equally as important... Not as much, but what was really important was for me to witness the choreography and how they move around each other just instinctually with the slightest... In such a small space. And watching how food is inspected before... And how many folks come in to inspect each section of what is supposed to go on that plate. And the servers, these multi-talented servers, and their extensive knowledge of everything on that plate, where it came from, the quality of the ingredients. I feel like even though I might disappoint you with my food, it was thrilling for me.
Kerry Diamond:
You told me something about your family earlier that was very funny before we started rolling. That now that you play a cook/chef, people expect you to be a good cook at home. But when you played a doctor and a lawyer, no one was coming to you for medical or legal advice.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah. Now the expectation with family, it's like you can't just, I feel so much guilt ordering a pizza. There's just basic things that I know how to do. Now, I'm questioning everything. So, I made a little roast pork this weekend, that something, a technique that I used, that I learned how to make all that fat skin super crispy. That was excess, but I skipped the step of fully rinsing off the salt used to dehydrate it. So, then the rest of the penne was super salty and they were so cute though. They're like, "That's amazing. We love it." So, those are the things that now I'm questioning what I thought I knew in my bones, and I'm like, look, I've been laid up for months, because I just had a full knee replacement. So, with time that I wanted to be able to be practicing and learning, I just couldn't do it. I couldn't stand up. So, sorry guys. I'm going to have to experiment on you.
Kerry Diamond:
When do you start filming season three?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
February.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, February. Wow.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
We're still working it out.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. How exciting. Congratulations.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Thank you. Thank you for having me on here. I just want to say I was really nervous about doing the interview for Cherry Bombe in the Christmas edition. And hey, listen, I'm no expert in anything and I thank you for how generous and kind you helped me present in the article. So, thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
You. Credit goes to Sarah Cristobal, who's our guest editor on The Issue. You worked with Sarah on that piece.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Thank you, Sarah. Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
That's a good segue, we're going to talk about the story. Since you are in our holiday issue, I want you to expand on a few of the things we talked about. I loved learning about your family traditions and your Christmases at your grandmother's down at her apartment in Chelsea. Tell us a little bit about what they were. They sounded so warm, but chaotic and packed, and beautiful food.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Well, Christmas was a lot of cousins rolling through. She had a railroad apartment, but somehow she had a full size tree. And we didn't have modern Christmas lights, like you all don't know. There was a thing that looked like a fan and it had different colors attached to it, and it would spin with a light bulb behind. And that's how you got multi-colors movement in the room of Christmas. And that jumps out at me. We were all obsessed with March of the Wooden Soldiers.
Kerry Diamond:
I read that in your piece. There wasn't a lot to watch. People forget pre-streaming and VCRs, and all of that.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah. And that was such a special gift.
Kerry Diamond:
It was like on channel 11 or something, right?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Like WPIX, you got what you got.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah. And the commercial with the horse clapping sounds and the jingle bells. It was just, I remember it as having such a rush, man, and yeah, just-
Kerry Diamond:
Miracle on 34th Street.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Miracle on 34th Street.
Kerry Diamond:
A wonderful life.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
“It's a Wonderful Life.” And now I look back at those films with more cynicism. But back then-
Kerry Diamond:
Same. We didn't know.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
... it was great. We didn't know. You didn't know. But you don't know, you don't know.
Kerry Diamond:
Was your grandmother really cooking by herself for all the relatives?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. She wouldn't let anybody in to help?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
No. She was a tough cookie. She was a tough cookie. And I think it was like maybe 15 years ago, I was doing a play in Chelsea. It was a two show day, so I wanted to run over there and wish her a happy birthday and run back to do the second show. My family was there, my mom was there. My mom, her mobility was starting to... And so, there was a cane and someone tried to hand her the cane and she was like, "Get out of here. I don't use those things." And she was like 89 years old, man. She was cooking, serving, just stay out of her... You could walk through the kitchen to get to the bedroom at the end, but you weren't lingering or trying to help.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us about her specialties.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Arroz con gandules, which is yellow rice with peas. But I just loved her beans. Like I said, I didn't love food. I didn't love to eat anybody's beans. But grandma's beans, she would make from scratch and she never used any powdered stuff. All the ingredients were fresh and she'd have the motor, the pilón, and that's how I remember her with that. And then, she would make everything.
Kerry Diamond:
I saw a video of... I forget what you were making. Were you maybe making a sofrito, and you smelled it and your whole face lit up?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah. And you know why else it lit up, was because I used the sweet peppers and didn't realize there was some hot peppers. And we don't use jalapenos really in the Caribbean, at least when I was coming up. That's Mexican. And so it was good, but it was extra. So, that also explained... But yeah, it was a great fun time doing that.
Kerry Diamond:
You also wrote beautifully about Christmas in Puerto Rico. Did you go as a child?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
I never went to Christmas in Puerto Rico as a child, I am going over the next few days because we celebrate Christmas for at least two months. It's the longest Christmas in the world. It's just the decorations are everywhere. The parties in the streets are epic, the parades, the hospitality. Everyone's inviting you over for food and you don't just come over for food, but people come over with instruments and what do they call? Parrandeando. You just come and singing these traditional folk songs. It's just a party, but an all-inclusive of all ages party. I don't know. But the warmth, the warmth of the people, the welcoming, it's beautiful.
Kerry Diamond:
You also wrote about Coquitos.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Coquito.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us the ingredients and why do you think it's so popular today?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
It depends on how much time and effort you have. Some people make them where they purchase all the coconuts, and crack them and blend them and boil them, and run it through the sieve and cook it down with the vanilla and the la la la. I just do it from the can. Listen, there's different... There's the sweeten and condensed milk, the evaporated milk, and I love a ton of Bacardi, because there's so much sugar in those other ingredients. So I'm like, unless there's real heat, I don't need the extra sugar. I just get grouchy. Yeah, the cinnamon and nutmeg and this and the vanilla que tiësto, so everybody has their own... Some people add raw eggs, some people don't. Everybody has their own variation and claims that they're the masters. It's delicious. I'm sorry, eggnog, I'm sorry. And you want it. I was getting to a point where I'm like, I would make big batches of it and then like, "Oh, I got so much extra though, and I'm having a nightcap," and then it's creamer for the coffee the next day.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's a fun-
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, okay. I'm thinking my family's Irish coffee, that's-
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Bailey's in the... Yeah, no, honey.
Kerry Diamond:
That's a fun variation on that. And we have a really nice coquito recipe in the issue from Toni Tipton-Martin, who's amazing.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Yes, I saw it. It's in the page after.
Kerry Diamond:
So, if you have that issue, check it out. What do you think Tina does for the holidays?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
I think she spends it with her neighborhood, with maybe the Donna on the upstairs.
Kerry Diamond:
Does she cook or does she get a break?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
I think she cooks and I think she keeps it just with the one or two other orphans in the building.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. We usually do speed round. I'm going to spare the speed round since we went over a little bit. Do you have a favorite holiday song?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
No, it's too many. I love the old stuff, so I can't I think... Hark, the Herald Angels, the Peanuts. I listen still to the Peanuts, Vince Guaraldi album.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, it's a beautiful one. Okay, so I'll ask you our last question. We always ask everybody this. If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
It'd have to be, if I can... I'm sorry. It's my fantasy, so I'm going to say it had to be Anthony Bourdain.
Kerry Diamond:
Why Anthony?
Liza Colón-Zayas:
He was such a badass rockstar, humanitarian. Funny.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, I think he's our number one answer-
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Absolutely.
Kerry Diamond:
... for a good reason. Well, Liza, honestly, you made my year.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Oh, man.
Kerry Diamond:
“The Bear” is so important to me and so important to our community.
Liza Colón-Zayas:
Thank you. You made my 2023 also. Gracias.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. I would love for you to subscribe to Radio Cherry Bombe on Apple Podcast or Spotify, and leave a rating and a review. Our theme song is by the band, Tralala. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Elizabeth Vogt. Our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu, and our content and partnerships manager is London Crenshaw. Special thanks to Joseph Hazan at Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center. Thanks for listening, everybody. You're the Bombe.