Lucie Franc de Ferriere Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe. And I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe magazine and each week, I talk to the most interesting culinary folks around.
Joining me in the studio today is Lucie Franc de Ferriere. She's the baker behind From Lucie, the popular new bakery in New York's East Village. Lucie makes some of the loveliest cakes around. They're sweet and delicate and festooned with flowers. Lucie is a self-taught baker with a fascinating backstory. She grew up on a chateau in the Bordeaux region of France with a Cordon Bleu-trained grandmother who was part of the French Resistance as a teenager and with a mom who is a baking enthusiast from New Zealand. So needless to say, Lucie and I had a lot to talk about. Stay tuned.
Thank you to everyone who joined us last Monday for our Sit With Us Dinner with OpenTable At Zou Zou's in Manhattan. It was so nice meeting all of you. Chef Juliana Latif, who we'll be hearing from on a future episode, and her team made the most beautiful meal. If you don't know about Zou Zou's, put it on your restaurant bucket list immediately. The strawberry salad, the broccoli, the lamb chops, the baklava cheesecake ... I could go on and on. Everything was so good. Chef Juliana is a big talent. Obviously, you can book your table through OpenTable. The next dinner in our Sit With Us series is in Los Angeles tonight. I can't wait to see our West Coast pals. Thank you to OpenTable for supporting our show.
Lucie, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Thank you so much.
Kerry Diamond:
This is your first podcast.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Ever, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
I had no idea. You're the toast of the town. I thought you'd done a ton of podcasts already.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I know I'm making it seem like I did but no, I never, so exciting.
Kerry Diamond:
Congratulations on getting your bakery open. How is it going?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's going great. It's been a little cuckoo. It's been a month and a half now and time flies. The team is great. We're getting there. And we live and we learn. So, every day is different but I like the energy.
Kerry Diamond:
It's been a month and a half already.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I think so because it was January 14th. So yeah, it's been a month and a half.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. I mean, granted I'm not the one working in the bakery, but I feel for you because I know how popular the bakery became just right out of the gate.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I didn't really know what to expect either just because I've been mostly on social media and in my apartment of pre-orders, so I just didn't know how the opening of a physical bakery was going to work out. But it's definitely been a very good opening and a good problem to have that people do want to have cake apparently.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, I'm so happy for you because I've tried your beautiful cakes and they are so delicious and so special and so unique. I would love for you to describe them to the audience.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I mean, thank you first of all for saying that. My cakes, I don't know how to describe them exactly. People usually ask me that question. But I want them to feel like a homemade cake. I know that a lot of people tend to put pressure on me because I'm French so they're expecting kind of this refined patisserie that's more kind of like a Paris-based or up north-based patisserie.
I'm kind of the opposite of that. I'm trying to bring more the French countryside which is more like a rustic look to cake and more like a homemade style. So, cake never looks perfect, it looks like it just got out of the oven. It's a nice either light fluffy cake or a spongy moist but it's not a perfect kind of finish to it, if that makes sense.
Kerry Diamond:
I read that you said no two cakes are ever the same.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, that's very true just because I'm not a professionally trained baker so they never turn out perfect and I'm totally fine with it and I kind of like that. But also in terms of decorating the cake, that just really depends on my mood. And that's been the hardest thing to train I think with my staff and they've been not losing their mind a little bit some days but they've been like, "But you told me to decorate this way yesterday." I'm like, "Yeah, but I changed my mind today." And they're like, "Okay."
So yeah, it just really depends on my mood of the day. And again, if I get influenced by something or my influences change day by day so I think my cakes change with me, if that makes sense.
Kerry Diamond:
If our listeners were to stop by this month, what would they find for sale?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
So right now, I'm actually working mainly with the pear fruit. So, I've been making a really good... I mean, I really like it personally, a pear ginger jam that we've been putting on the Victoria sponge. And the idea, for example, for the Victoria sponge is that that will stay in the shop forever but the jam will change seasonally.
Otherwise, it's a really decadent chocolate cake with a salted dark chocolate espresso buttercream with chocolate chips in it which is kind of my little highlight in that one. Otherwise, I have a lemon olive oil cake with a lavender Swiss meringue buttercream and a lemon curd as well. Trying to work with seasonal products which obviously is always a little hard in winter but there's quite a lot of fruits that are interesting as well.
Kerry Diamond:
Is it all cake or do you have cookies and brownies, other things?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yes. So initially, it was mainly cake but I've slowly introduced like banana breads and cookies. And I'm working as well on a scone that's more like a thyme savory scone as well.
Kerry Diamond:
And right now, you are not open seven days a week. So, I don't want folks to show up and have their hearts broken. When are you open?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Right now, I'm open only from Thursday to Sunday. The bakers are in every day really but I'm open to the public Thursday to Sunday just because it's such a small space and we're trying to figure out how things work and we're trying to keep it a good quality versus quantity. And I don't know if it's a French thing but taking our time and making sure everyone's happy.
Kerry Diamond:
How did you go about hiring? Because you're a new business owner, you're a new baker.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I mean, it was... it's still a little bit tricky. I've been using actually social media. And most of my bakers I've actually found through Instagram which is interesting and a positive thing because they know the backstory. And they like to come into work. They're interested by the whole story and the idea of what From Lucie is.
I've also been using Craigslist a lot and I really like Craigslist. I would say 75% is Instagram and the rest would be Craigslist really.
Kerry Diamond:
And a lot of professional bakers?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, mostly professional bakers. I have one or two of my employees, it's their first job. They've been baking at home as well which is what I did. I obviously want to give them that chance as well and they've been doing really well. So they've been training with the professional bakers and I who's not a professional baker. And after a month, I can see already a progression so it's pretty amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
I would imagine you've learned a lot from the bakers you've hired.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Oh yes. Oh yes. And I have a general manager, Stacey [Kane], who's amazing and I could not do it without her. She's showed me a lot. And she's implemented a lot of systems that I was like, "Oh, we can just wing this." And she's like, "No, Lucie, let's sit down." And I'm like, "Okay." So yeah, she's putting up with a lot sometimes.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you still making custom cakes?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
So for now, I'm only focusing more on the shop really but I'm going to reopen my website for the birthday cakes that would feed eight to 10 people very soon. I know people are asking for it, but I'd rather again just make sure that my team is okay with bringing in all of those kind of custom orders. So, we're slowly getting there.
I've started answering a lot of the wedding cakes because those are coming up really soon especially for summer. Yeah, I have quite a few wedding cakes this year already which is pretty exciting as well.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you at max capacity in the bakery in terms of what you can make?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I think kind of but at the same time, we are working good hours but we could be coming in earlier, we could be leaving later if possible. But for now, I think with the team we have, I'd rather not overwork anyone as well and have all the team spirit be still very nice and fun.
So I think if we can find more bakers which we hope and we're still looking for more, then we can probably start thinking of having longer shifts or have a bit more baked goods.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm happy to hear your thinking of folks' wellness, their professional wellness, important first and foremost. Let's talk about where you grew up. You've got such an interesting backstory, Lucie.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
So, I grew up in the southwest of France in a small town. It's called Pessac-sur-Dordogne. It's an hour away from Bordeaux. It's between Bergerac and Bordeaux. And I grew up on a vineyard, small farm. It's called Chateau Carbonneau.
Kerry Diamond:
And you actually have a wine named after you. I saw that, a rosé.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I do. It's called Cuvee Lulu. I wasn't lucky enough to get it called Cuvee Lucie. My sister's a white wine called Cuvee Margot. I tried to fight for Lucie but my parents were like, "I think Lulu is a bit more selling." I was like, "Okay."
Kerry Diamond:
I thought it was your nickname. It was just your parents'...
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's also my nickname which I was like, "I'm okay with that nickname but I don't love it." So now, everyone calls me Lulu when they come and visit. They're like, "Oh, you must be Lulu." I'm like, "I'm actually Lucie but it's fine."
Kerry Diamond:
There we go. Well, I'm sure the rosé is good.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, I really like that rosé honestly, easy to drink which can be a problem sometimes.
Kerry Diamond:
I read that your mother is a good baker. Did you learn to bake from her?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, actually my mom is one of my big inspirations when it comes to baking because we'd always have cake around the house. She is originally from New Zealand, Christchurch. I don't know if it's well known but New Zealand is really good with cakes. New Zealand and Australia tend to be really good with cakes. They're inspired from England I believe for most of them.
But my mother started having a bed and breakfast on the farm and she would cook dinners and other desserts for the clients. So, that's kind of how it started. So, we would always have dinner with the clients and it would always be kind of a fancy dinner and a fancy desert. So, I grew up around that and seeing her cook and bake every night for people.
So, I'd be around complaining saying like, "Oh, when are you having dinner? It's too late." And then I would just help her at the end. So, I learned all those kind of small tips and trick on how to make a cake a bit more soft, how to make a bit more tasty. I definitely think when I started baking, I would ring her every 30 minutes being like, "How would you do this? What's that recipe?" And I think she never really has a perfect recipe so it was hard to work with initially.
Kerry Diamond:
So, we've talked about a few different things. We should probably talk a little bit more about the chateau because people have heard it's a farm, it's a winery, it's a bed and breakfast. And chateau sounds very fancy so it paints a little picture for us. What is this place?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I mean, chateau does sound fancy and I mean it is pretty fancy to be honest. Chateau is also a name in the Bordeaux region at least. I don't know the rest of France. I should be aware of that. If you are a winemaker, you can call your house a chateau basically. But for my home, it is honestly a chateau which is pretty incredible. It's a really big home that my great-grandparents bought back in the early '90s.
Basically, one of parents took over in the late '90s. My dad had this vision of making wine so he started this whole vineyard with the help of locals. And then my mom was an English teacher at the time and then decided to slowly build out the chateau because it was a little bit old and a bit in ruins.
Over the years, she's been fixing it up. And first, it was a gîte so you could rent out the whole chateau in summer and then she slowly transformed it into bed and breakfast with different rooms really. But it has this whole sense of farm because my dad has over 50 cows as well. We have 12 chickens. We have cats, dogs everywhere.
Then they slowly implemented that small tearoom wine bar on the property as well that people can come from Thursday to Sunday which is really funny, now I think about it. And you can enjoy a plate of local cheese and hams and then wines. And then during the day, you can have the more British-New Zealand side of my mother which is tea and cake and her scones and different biscuits that she has.
Kerry Diamond:
And your parents started the wine side of the chateau from scratch because there wasn't a vineyard there when your grandparents bought the property.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. It was actually something else which I can't remember the name of in English which is tournesol.
Kerry Diamond:
Sunflowers.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Sunflowers, exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
Beautiful sunflower farm.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Beautiful sunflower farm.
Kerry Diamond:
I hope they still grow sunflowers there.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Not my family but if you go around the region, you can see a lot of them which is lovely. But the beauty of that, it only lasts for a little bit and then it just obviously goes to sand again. But he decided to plant all of those vines which took a little while really. Well, he planted in 1994 if I'm not wrong, 1993. So it's been quite a few years now.
Kerry Diamond:
You have a fascinating family. I was doing a little homework the other day. And you've got British, you've got Russian people who went to New Zealand. They came back from New Zealand. Your dad was raised in Canada. So you've got a really international family.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I think it's one thing again when people are like, "Oh, you're French." And it's true I am very French because I was born and raised in France by predominantly French dad. My mother always spoke to me in English because she knew I was going to learn French at school. She's like, "Oh, you should have a bit of English in the back."
She has always brought that kind of New Zealand side to the family. And I would go back to New Zealand every two years for Christmas to see all of her side of family. And then my dad on his side, his dad is very French, very traditional French which I kind of love about it. But then his mom is Kiwi, New Zealand side but her mom was Russian and they got kicked out of Russia during the Bolshevik war. So it goes back.
Kerry Diamond:
We need a family tree.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Oh yeah, you can find it online.
Kerry Diamond:
You have a grandmother who when she was 16, she was part of the resistance during World War II. And she was actually thrown in jail.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, that's my grandma Olga that we called. She's 99 years old.
Kerry Diamond:
She's 99?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, and still very sharp. She has her own home in Menton which is... I mean, Roquebrune Cap-Martin, which is near Menton in the southeast of France. But she was part of resistance when she was 16 years old. And she was living at the Chateau Carbonneau which was where I grew up.
Her parents were mainly just farming and she was essentially passing fake passports to French soldiers that were going through France to Spain. And she did that a lot with her bicycle. In the back of her bicycle, she had chickens and underneath the chickens, she would shove the passports basically to go through the Gestapo Nazi barrier, basically-
Kerry Diamond:
Checkpoints.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Checkpoints, exactly. And she got caught once just because a young soldier, she would never give names but this young soldier in one of the trains asked for her name and she just gave in and then she got arrested. And so they came and deported my whole family from the chateau actually and then invaded my home. She was in prison for over a year and a half, two years. And then she was never deported to camps like her friend were because she wasn't French which she's still not to this day because of that.
Kerry Diamond:
What an incredible story. What is she like today?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's hard to define. And I think if my family hears that, they're probably going to laugh at my description. But my grandma is a Buddhist. She's always been a Buddhist. Her mom was a Buddhist as well. So, she has always been very big in learning, teaching and meditating.
She went to Cordon Bleu School in Paris so she's an incredible cook. I've never really seen her cook just because she's never really wanted to cook and she can and it's amazing. The only time I saw her bake something was madeleine and they were the most incredible madeleine I've ever had in my life. We had the recipe in my brother's Lego box. He chucked the Lego box so we lost a recipe and she can't remember it now. So, that's a little sad really.
She's a very sharp woman, not the funniest woman on earth. Her name is Olga but we call her Teid.
Kerry Diamond:
You call her Teid. Okay.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
But I call her Granny which is funny because it's granny but with her French accent.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, she sounds incredible. Are there any parts of you that you feel are like her?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I think a bit of an example. Sometimes when I feel a little lost or feel a bit insecure about something, I remind myself of what she would do. And in terms of just keep learning, just always reading books. Never think that you know everything because you don't. And so, every day is kind of a process.
She's someone who reminds me too because she would always have a back very straight. I'm someone who's a bit too loosey-goosey sometimes. And when I think of her I'm like, "Okay, you should sharpen up a little bit."
Kerry Diamond:
Lucie-goosey could be your next business.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I know.
Kerry Diamond:
Why didn't you stay in Bordeaux?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I mean, I left Bordeaux a little while ago. I went to university in Toulouse actually. And one of the reasons why I went to university in Toulouse was because Bordeaux can be conservative in its way of thinking sometimes. I was more on the art side of things. So, a lot of people would tend to judge you by what you're dressing, you know what you're wearing.
And I wanted something and a place that no one really knew me. I could start from zero again and learn new things. So, Toulouse seemed like a good city because people are way more relaxed, way more countryside in their way of living which I liked a lot.
And so, I first went there. And then from Toulouse, I moved to Rome for my last year of undergraduate in art history. And then I went to England up north in Leeds which is between Manchester and Liverpool. And so from there, I just enjoyed moving from city to city and meeting new people and just living in different cultures. And then that's when I got my job to New York and I was like, "I got to try New York because it sounds amazing."
Kerry Diamond:
Lucie, why were the arts of interest?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
So, that kind of goes back to my grandma Olga. Her mother was moved from Russia and was in the Renoir, the painter Renoir School at the time. So she was an incredible painter. So we always had a lot of different drawings and just beautiful art around the home. And so, it almost looked like kind of a museum already. So I was always interested in museums and this idea of painting. So I started drawing and painting as a kid. And then I was like actually, I'm really interested in history and the art so why not doing art history?
Kerry Diamond:
So, you come to New York, you start working in the gallery world, very different world from the baking world. What was it like?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It was very interesting. I learned a lot I think especially because I got that job and I had to move to New York two weeks later so I was really just pushed in it. I remember my first day coming to New York, I took a bus from New York. And I took a bus and I landed on Times Square and I was like, "What is going on?"
I have this gigantic suitcase. It was like 9:00 a.m. I had to be at work at 11:00 a.m. and pretend I had my life together and I had nowhere really to sleep. I had this one girl that I met once in Paris who was like, "You can stay the night." And that was really much it. I was really on an adventure.
And I remember on Times Square, you had those places you can put your suitcase for the day and you give, I don't know, it was like $5 and they would put your suitcase in a locker. And then I took the wrong train down and I don't know how but I arrived at 11:00 a.m. at my work. And then they were like, "All right, this is what you're going to do. You're going to start." And my first day was crazy and I was like, "I guess that's what New York energy is."
Kerry Diamond:
I can't believe that story.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I know. But I really enjoyed working in the art world. I got to create a lot of amazing shows. And I was working for a gallery that promoted a lot of young artists that had never had a solo show in New York. So, I got to meet incredible people that had incredible minds and I think I fed a lot on that through also my baked goods really.
Kerry Diamond:
That's incredible. Sadly though, April 2020, you get laid off. We all know why, the pandemic. Your fiancé, I don't know if you were engaged at the time but maybe just your boyfriend.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
He was my boyfriend, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Gurpreet [Singh] had just opened his Lower East Side cafe Sunday To Sunday. Some of you might know it. It's a fun place. Gurpreet's a lovely guy. But poor Gurpreet, he opened his place two weeks before the official start of the pandemic.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
A week and a half actually. He renovated it and I was like, “I'm ready to start.” And I remember us thinking what could happen. People don't know us. They'll slowly learn who we are. And also it's such a busy corner. There'll always be someone walking through the door. What could happen?
And then a week and a half later, no one's allowed outside of their home. And I was like, "That's what could happen." People are not actually allowed to come in the restaurant. I was still working at the gallery thinking I can still get some money coming in. It will be fine. Everything's going to be fine. But then he had to shut down for over two months which actually now that we think about it was kind of a blessing as well because it allowed him to slowly build his business because he took over and he had two weeks to flip it and then open it again.
So, those two months were actually pretty crucial and him setting up all his little spreadsheets, he liked it. But then he was able in late April to reopen the take-out window which that was mainly coffee and pastries, which initially actually he used to get his pastries from Ovenly. And then obviously during the pandemic, Ovenly had to shut down as well. So, he only had coffees and no pastries.
And so when I lost my job, I was at home and I was like, "What should I do?" And no one was hiring and it was a whole issue. And I was like, "I can make a banana bread, a cookie." It was COVID. You could do anything and it would probably work out because everyone was in survival mode. I started baking in the basement of his restaurant. And I started with a cookie and I started banana bread and then people would come back for it and I was like, "Maybe I'm not that bad at it. Maybe this can actually be a thing."
And so, I slowly realized I liked making cakes more than anything else and so it kind of grew from there. And then I started doing pop-ups around the city and the rest is history.
Kerry Diamond:
When did your unique style of cakes start to emerge?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I think it was actually a turning point and it's funny because I was seeing Daniel [Emilio Soares] three days ago who is the owner of a place called Alimentari Flaneur which used to exist in Essex Market as this Italian grocery popup style. And now, he does mainly events. But he was the first one to be like, "You know what, let's do a popup." It was a Friday, Saturday, Sunday popup.
And he was like, "Just make 20 cakes." And I was like, "I'm going to make those mini-cakes which will be easier for people to go home with and I like the aesthetic of it." He was just like, "Okay." And I remember during the Friday and then after an hour, it sold out. He was like, "Maybe tomorrow, you can make 60 cakes." And I came back next day and same thing, sold out an hour.
And I remember him being like, "I think there's something going on here. I think you should probably keep baking." And so from there, I realized, "Oh, the whole aesthetic side with the flowers and stuff can work."
Kerry Diamond:
We'll be right back with today's guest.
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When did you decide to open a bakery?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
The bakery part is actually an interesting part because it wasn't initially going to be a bakery. It was going to be a studio space because I just was making it mainly out of my apartment. So, it was kind of chaotic a little bit and I was sick of not being able to have an actual professional space and a lot more space even though it's funny because my bakery is tiny.
But I wanted a space that had a really professional oven and people could come in and work with me. That's where I was like, "Oh, maybe I'll find a ghost kitchen initially." But then I was like, "People have to pick up the cakes." So then ghost kitchens are all tricky.
I went online and I was looking up studio spaces and that's when that space I found online randomly. But Ashley [Coiffard] and Gautier [Coiffard] actually found L’Appartement 4F were the first one being like, "Maybe you should do a storefront too." And I was like, "Really?" Ashley's always pushing me in those directions, which is very funny.
Kerry Diamond:
You've referenced the space being small. It is small but mighty.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I like to use the word quaint. It was a vegan restaurant before me. There is a big storage space in the basement which was really useful. I did like the idea of having a small space because I think it gives this kind of intimate side to it. You're coming into someone's home almost feeling, but also because New York City real estate is pretty cuckoo. And I wanted this to be my small project so I just decided to open this tiny hole in the wall really.
Kerry Diamond:
And what was it about the East Village?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I used to live in the East Village actually on 11th and B. I don't know if it's because the subways already run for the East Village but it was very, a lot of just kind of people that have been living there for 20 years. All the grandmothers and the grandfathers walking and being like, "What's opening today? What is this place?" And I really feel it now that I've opened a bakery, they all stop by every day curious and being like, "Oh, what is this?" I'm like, "Just try the cookie."
And then especially the street I'm on, I really, really like because every single business is different. I have the Turkish & Russian Baths across the streets which are amazing. Then I have this amazing Japanese store right next to me. And then, it's just like everyone is doing their own thing and everyone's helping each other which I really like about the East Village in general.
Kerry Diamond:
It really has its own character. How did you raise money to open the bakery?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I actually initially started with doing a Kickstarter which again, Ashley and Gautier were like, "This probably gives us an idea." And I was like, "Okay, I could give that a go." And that was really to help with all the equipment. And professional oven cost way more than I thought it would. So that really helped with all of those different equipment. And then I had to take a loan out as well and then really-
Kerry Diamond:
Was that hard?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
That was a little tricky but because obviously with Gurpreet, we were able to make it work because I'm obviously French as well so it was a little harder. But Gurpreet was very helpful in terms of finding and he's a finance person which that helps as well in terms of finding the best deals when it comes to that.
I had saved up quite a bit of money by making all my cakes. And for the last three and a half years because it was COVID, I didn't travel much. I didn't spend a lot of money because I wasn't really going anywhere so I didn't want to buy clothes or anything. So, I was saving up a lot of money with that idea in mind that maybe one day I could get myself a little studio space and cakes actually were good for that.
Kerry Diamond:
And I should say Ashley and Gautier of L'Appartement 4F, folks may have heard on Radio Cherry Bombe. If not, you have to listen to their episode. Some of the decor is very personal. What are some of the personal touches there?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's actually interesting because someone had asked me that recently and I think everything about the place is very personal. I think when it comes to tiles for example is my uncle's house in France. And then the wall that separates the kitchen from the front of the bakery is a glass wall that is supposed to reproduce my glass house back at home in France. And then all the artworks are by friends of mine. And there's like the little numbers, the 163 at the ... 263 actually, that's my address. I can't remember anymore.
My uncle brought them back from the southeast of France. So, there's all those little art like little nods to France in general and my story really. And that's what I liked about how small the space is. I was able to only bring personal projects in it.
Kerry Diamond:
And the colors are beautiful. The exterior is a bright sunflower yellow. Does it have anything to do with the sunflowers you grew up around?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I mean, it was actually mainly for lemons. Both my uncle and my grandmother that we spoke about live in Menton which is known as the town of lemons in France. And every February, they do this thing called Fete du citron which is the celebration of lemons.
And they build like all of Menton becomes, I don't know, a park of lemons and oranges which is pretty incredible because it's huge. And then at the end of February when the park comes down, everyone can just get free lemons and oranges. But the houses in Menton are either yellow or orange or this kind of pale pink and it's very bright and colorful and I kind of wanted to bring that again to New York and have this colorful feeling place.
Kerry Diamond:
I love that. No doubt you have been contacted about writing a cookbook.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I have actually, yeah. I've been connected by this amazing woman who's been amazing at being patient with me because she contacted me right when I had this idea of opening the bakery and I was like, "I really, really want to work with you." So, she's just been hitting me up every month being like, "Hey, are you still here? How are you doing?" And she's been following all of the things I've been doing. And so, I can't wait to finally sit down with her and really go over that project.
Kerry Diamond:
Not much time to write a cookbook proposal right now, is there?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
No, not yet but I'm really excited about the idea of doing that.
Kerry Diamond:
And I can see the book in my head. I'm sure you can too.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Not really. So, I would love to know.
Kerry Diamond:
Your cakes are so visual but what you do is not intimidating.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
No, exactly. I think that's one thing that people sometimes have a hard time to wrap their heads around is that my cakes are very homemade and you can definitely bake that in your own oven at home, but then obviously the decorating side is very personal to me. So, I think that's where maybe the hard side of the cookbook will be is the decorating part, the flower part that people enjoy as well.
But I think what would be nice about that is that people can get personal about flowers and they don't have to look like exactly my cakes as well, as long as the recipe is good.
Kerry Diamond:
As rustic as they look once you taste the cakes, they are so complex and delicious. And I think that's what made me fall in love with your cakes.
Let's talk about these signature mini-cakes because that's one of the really special things that you do. It's almost like you took a cupcake, sliced it in half and turned it into this exquisite cake for one. How did that come about?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It was kind of the idea of the big version of a layered cake as a mini-cake. And I think one thing that I liked in the past was that, "Oh, what can I bring as a gift to a friend at a party, an event or any place?" And sometimes bringing a slice of a cake is not as nice looking as it could. And I was like, "Why can't I do a mini version of a big layered cake? And it can be the same size as a slice of cake but it's just a bit more aesthetically pleasing if you're gifting it someone."
And so, I kind of played with that. And also, I realized actually when I was baking at Gurpreet's cafe restaurant that a lot of people would rather have smaller dishes, more like a tapas-style dish. And so when I was making the cakes, I was like, "Maybe I should make a tapas size of a cake really." So, that's how it started really.
Kerry Diamond:
What are the most popular flavors of the mini-cakes?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
The mini-cakes, I think they've been rotating a lot over the years. I think one that I had made for little while was actually a matcha white chocolate one that people really loved as a mini-cake. The lemon olive oil with the lavender Swiss meringue buttercream is definitely a good favorite for people. My carrot cake with the fromage frais buttercream is also a good one.
The other one that I used to love and I want to bring back soon as well is my chocolate stout cake or rosemary cream cheese buttercream. People have different taste buds as well. But the lemon olive oil I think is one of people's favorite as well.
Kerry Diamond:
And which one is gluten-free? You do have a gluten-free option.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's the carrot one that's gluten-free. And then at the store at the moment, I have a huile au chocolat which is like the flourless chocolate cake.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about the different frostings that you use. You prefer Swiss buttercream.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I do. I love Swiss meringue buttercream. Just because I'm not used to... I'm not a very overly sweet person. I like the idea of having a cake that is either a little bit sweet but is cut with something that isn't sweet. So, it's almost a cross between a dinner and a dessert. And I think the Swiss meringue does a good job at that because it's more like a fluffy cloud and it doesn't use powdered sugar.
I like powdered sugar once in a while if I'm really having a kind of craving a sweet tooth. But otherwise, I'd like to try and avoid using powdered sugar. Swiss meringue is an easy way to infuse your butter with different herbs. And I use a lot of different herbs including rosemary, thyme, lavender, basil. And so, I think it's such a delicate texture and delicate meringue that you can have all those delicate herbs coming out more. And I think if you're trying to put let's say basil and rosemary of icing sugar, sometimes it's harder to get that flavor out from the icing sugar.
Kerry Diamond:
The cake layers are so moist. Do you soak the layers?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
No. So, actually I didn't know about soaking until I came to New York and I realized, "Oh, that's a thing that people do." They add syrups between the layers. And I think that's something that I'm discovering. I'm not personally a huge fan of it. I don't think I need it on my cakes as well. I just work with different styles of cakes as well.
And that's something that my flavors change but my type of cakes stay the same so I use different fruits, but the base of the cake is the same. And one would be more like a dense butter-based cake. One is more like an oil-based cake and that is the one that's probably more spongy as well. And then one's kind of like half butter, half oil as well. And then the olive oil obviously makes it more spongy. So I think I work more on the textures and the oils that I use to make that sponge happen.
Kerry Diamond:
I had no idea what a soak was, if it makes you feel better, until I think maybe one or two books ago by Christina Tosi. And she was talking about a soak and I was like, "What's a soak?"
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I know. Actually, I think I heard it from her and I was like, "Well, that's interesting." And I looked over it. I mean, I've never tried it. I should probably try it one day.
Kerry Diamond:
You know what? I've never tried it either. And I thought back to when I was a kid making tons of box cakes and I was like, "Huh, I wonder if a soak would have improved the box cakes."
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I wonder if it changes the flavor of the actual cake though in terms of sweetness.
Kerry Diamond:
Probably.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It could add sweetness to it because then maybe I won't do it. For example, we make an Earl Grey cake and it's the Earl Grey syrup and you add that Earl Grey syrup on it. Obviously, it's sweeter but it's also probably more Earl Grey or something, so.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, if there are any soak experts out there-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I should ask her.
Kerry Diamond:
...Please DM me and Lucie. Then the last thing for your cakes are these beautiful flowers that you put in the top. How do you choose the flowers? How would you even describe your decorating style?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I mean, I think initially, I inspired myself again back to my mother's garden in France. She has this huge garden that comes back from her growing up in Christchurch. And Christchurch's a town that's known for the flower gardens all over the city. So, she taught me so much about flowers and what smells better than that and what you can use in different salads.
And I think I like this idea of being like, "Oh, I could probably just put chamomile on the salad and that would taste better." And even roses, I was like, "Oh, the rose petals taste amazing in a salad, why not on a cake as well?" And I think I like the idea of amalgamating the smell of rose with the smell of a cake as well. And sometimes they do complete each other, sometimes they don't. And it's kind of interesting to see that together.
I've also worked with the flowers in the actual icing as well. But in terms of picking my flowers, I think it just again depends on my mood, depends on which one obviously safe to put on top of a cake. I use only non-toxic and pesticide-free flowers. So, I work with mainly one amazing florist in the city, but I try to only use local grown flowers as well. So, it's been kind of a fun journey to discover all these flowers.
Kerry Diamond:
And they're not edible. People do have to take the flowers off.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Some are. So, they're all obviously non-toxic so if you ate them, totally fine. Some don't taste as great as others. I always recommend like rose like if you take a rose and you want to eat the petals, it tastes absolutely amazing. My chamomile on top of my flourless chocolate cake is pretty amazing as well. So, I think it's kind of like a play but most of it is obviously for decoration purposes.
Kerry Diamond:
They are like little works of art, Lucie.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
They're so pretty. When I went to put a fork into the first one, I was just like, "Oh, I must have taken a million photos of them because I just wanted to remember them."
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Thank you. I mean, it's definitely been again inspired from I think my kind of history and background where I just liked the idea of being creative with flowers and just seeing the acidic side of it as well. And I think that's where a really rustic look of a cake that doesn't look amazing, but then I have this kind of fun interaction with flowers on top to make it look a bit more aesthetically pleasing. So, I think they do complete each other.
Kerry Diamond:
How does it feel to have New York City love what you do?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I mean it's definitely pretty amazing and I'm still pinching myself at this idea. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, why is this even happening really?" It's something that I've always loved about New York and why I really started doing this here is because New Yorkers are always interested in something new, something they haven't seen, something interesting that's a little wild and probably won't work tomorrow but at least today worked. You know what I mean? And I think that energy, that's what I love about people here really. It's just give it a try, they fail but at least you give it a try.
Kerry Diamond:
You and Gurpreet are getting married in August.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
We are.
Kerry Diamond:
Who will make your wedding cake?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
We are actually having two different weddings because Gurpreet is Sikh and his family are Sikhs and my family is Protestant as well so it's two different religions and also two different cultures. His family is initially from Punjab, but Gurpreet was born in Queens. So, he has that culture side of him that we were like, "Actually, you know what? Let's do two different weddings and really embrace both sides of our families."
And so, we are having the Indian wedding in June and then we are having the French wedding in August. So, for the French wedding, initially it was a whole conversation with my mother and she was like, "I can make the cake." And I was like, "Actually, you know what? I'd probably want you more on the flowers because he's really good at flowers, too."
So I was like I really want to work with my local baker in my baker town that my small town called Saint-Phalle Grand. And he's going to be making a pièce montée which I believe in English is called croquembouche which I don't know why it's a French word that French people don't use.
Kerry Diamond:
So they don't call croquembouche?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Croquembouche? No. So, pièce montée in French.
Kerry Diamond:
Didn't know that.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Mounted piece. I'm trying to play with the flavors inside the pièce montée. So, I'll probably have a lavender, basil and probably a classic chocolate as well. And then the Indian one will have a lot of amazing Indian desserts which I'm very excited about. And then for the cake, we're still working on it. I'm probably going to have one of my friends from New York make it hopefully, but I still have to think about that.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that is so lovely. I can't wait to see the photos.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, I can't wait either. I haven't really had time to plan anything because of the bakery. And I think I'm a very last-minute person so it'll probably be more fun than anything else.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's do a little speed round so we can get you out of here and back to your bakery. What is one of your favorite books on food?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's actually a book that I have in the bakery. If you come into bakery, that's the only book on the wall. It's called I think Se Met À Table by Maïté which I always say is a French Julia Child. She was one of the first to have this kind of live TV show. It's very graphic. She would show all this really old French countryside dishes so she would show you how to kill an animal on live TV. But it's very those roots of countryside eating and I just-
Kerry Diamond:
Sounds like Julia Child meets Anthony Bourdain.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Oh yeah, it's amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
And she goes by one name.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Maïté.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Favorite kitchen tool?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
A tiny mini-spatula, rubber spatula.
Kerry Diamond:
One thing that's always in your fridge.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Eggs.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite childhood food?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I think it's salted butter and Vegemite which is kind of my museum side of it.
Kerry Diamond:
What do you put it on?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
On a baguette.
Kerry Diamond:
Snack food of choice.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I think dark salted chocolate, like 85%.
Kerry Diamond:
Footwear of choice in the kitchen.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
That's a good one. I just started wearing those On Cloud shoes I believe they're called like that because one of the bakers, Aubrey, told me about them. And since then I think we're three in the bakery that have them and I think the fourth baker is like, "I'm going to buy them too."
Kerry Diamond:
On Cloud 5, those shoes?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
On Cloud 5, exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. This is the first I'm hearing of them. What makes them so special?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
They're so light. You can barely feel anything like you're not wearing a shoe, if that makes sense. Not dragging your feet anymore but they have this kind of cushiony feeling to it. So, I think for our backs, it's been pretty amazing because I have a lot of back issues too just because I have zero muscles and I'm lifting flour in a non-professional way. So, I think that's been helping quite a lot.
Kerry Diamond:
Any motto or mantra?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I mean, I always say “YOLO” [you only live once] which is again the least professional thing in the world but that's kind of who I am. I was born on Friday the 13th. I believe I'm just kind of had luck going on which knock on wood stays. I think this idea of you only live once and if you don't try it, you'll regret it.
Kerry Diamond:
Last question. If you were to be stuck on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I have to say Maïté again. I think even though we'd probably kill each other or she would kill me before, I'd learn so much from her and I think she has all that survival side of an island that would go well. Otherwise, I think Martha Stewart would probably be amazing. I don't know if we would survive on an island together.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, it's clearly you like strong female personalities.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Oh yeah. And they know what they want because-
Kerry Diamond:
Going all the way back to your grandmother.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly. Because I'm a little bit like, "Oh, I don't know." So if someone tells me, "Hey, you know what, we should do that," I'll be 100% following you.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, Lucie, thank you so much. You're so charming. It's been so much fun getting to know you.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Thank you so much for having me. It's been amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
Congrats on all your success.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Be sure to sign up for the Cherry Bombe newsletter over at cherrybombe.com so you can stay on top of all Cherry Bombe happenings and podcast episodes. Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Thank you to Joseph Hazan, studio engineer for Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center. Our producer is Catherine Baker and our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu. And thanks to you for listening. You are the Bombe.