Maya-Camille Broussard Transcript
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi, peeps. You're listening to She's My Cherry Pie, the baking podcast from The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Jessie Sheehan. I'm a baker, recipe developer, and author of four baking books, including “Salty, Cheesy, Herby, Crispy Snackable Bakes.” On each episode, I hang out with the sweetest bakers around and take a deep dive into their signature bakes.
For today's show, we're airing one of my favorite episodes, my interview with pastry chef and pie specialist Maya-Camille Broussard of Justice of the Pies bakery in Chicago. Maya-Camille is also the author of the baking book “Justice of the Pies: Sweet and Savory Pies, Quiches, and Tarts plus Inspirational Stories from Exceptional People.” She's a star of “Bake Squad” on Netflix, so perhaps you've seen her in action along with Christina Tosi and the other dessert pros on the show. Maya-Camille founded her bakery in 2014, but they opened their first brick-and-mortar in 2023. I chatted with her before the grand opening. She joined me to discuss her journey, the family member who inspired her career, and the mission behind Justice of the Pies. Plus, we walked through the recipe for her salted caramel peach pie, which you can find in her book and on cherrybombe.com. And we get Maya-Camille's top baking tips, tricks, and more. Stay tuned for our combo.
Peeps, did you hear the news? Cherry Bombe's Jubilee conference is headed to Los Angeles this fall, and tickets are now on sale. It's taking place Sunday, September 28th at Hudson Loft in Downtown L.A. It'll be a full day of inspiring conversations, delicious food and drink, and incredible community. Since 2014, this one-of-a-kind gathering has celebrated the voices and talents of women across the worlds of food, drink, restaurants, and hospitality. Now it's L.A.'s turn, and we can't wait to give the city the love it deserves. Head to cherrybombe.com to learn more and get your tickets.
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Let's chat with today's guest. Maya-Camille, so excited to have you on She's My Cherry Pie and to talk salted caramel peach pie and so much more with you.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to talk all things pie. Yay!
Jessie Sheehan:
So you are a self-taught pastry chef who also happens to have been a 2022 James Beard Award finalist for Outstanding Baker. You learn to bake alongside the pie master, or at least learn something from the pie master about baking. Your dad was Steven Broussard, criminal defense attorney, do-gooder extraordinaire, obsessed with pie.
Just so people have a visual of your dad, can you tell everyone about his apron and about the hat that he wore when he was baking?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
My dad took himself seriously in all of his hobbies. He was a scuba diving instructor, a master scuba diving instructor. He was a community theater actor. He was fluent this Swahili. He was a pilot and was learning how to fly a plane. He was a wine collector. Most importantly, he was a home chef. When I say he took himself seriously, he took himself a little too seriously. His favorite items in the kitchen, which included tons of accessories, our drawers were always overflowing with one accessory after another, but his beloved apron was his favorite accessory because... Well, before I tell you about the apron, let me explain what my dad looked like.
We used to call him Uncle Steve because he looked like Uncle Phil from “The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.” He was very tall, 6'4". He was heavyset, but it was mainly in the belly. He had an apron that was too small and it read that "Skinny people make bad cooks," but let's take it a step further. He also had a toque. Like, why does this man need a toque? He was not a professional chef, but he literally put on a toque every time he stepped in a kitchen. It was annoying.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. Annoying, I'm sure, as his daughter, but hilarious and awesome as just a listener and learner about your dad. You've mentioned that since you were a baby, you've experienced significant hearing loss, which has led to your superpower. Can you tell everyone about your superpower?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
It is believed, largely believed in my family, that I lost my hearing when I fell down a flight of stairs at the age of one and I suffered a concussion. Often when you lose one sense, which for me was my sense of hearing, all of that neural information gets snowballed into another sense, and for me, that is my sense of smell and my sense of taste. I also like to think my sixth sense as well, but I mean, I'm very intuitive, but I have a crazy nose. It's annoying to me sometimes, it's annoying to people around me, but I have a crazy nose. I smell things five, 10 minutes before anyone else does. It's a blessing and a curse because I can smell and discover all of the good things, but when something stinks, yeah, that's no fun.
Jessie Sheehan:
You launched your bakery Justice of the Pies in 2014. I know it was influenced by your dad, celebrated his love of pies and to honor his belief that everyone deserves the opportunity to reform their lives. Specializing in sweet and savory pies, quiches and tarts, you've said that Justice of the Pies considers itself to be a social mission in a culinary art form. Can you unpack that a little for us?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Sure. So I often think about what brings you joy. When you are in a line of work that breaks your body down that is very hard to maintain over a very long period of time, you have to find the place of joy. And for me, that sense of accomplishment and joy comes from seeing how my work affects other people or how I'm able to pour into someone else in the same way that people throughout my life have poured into me. The way that I pour into others has to do with the way that I grew up around food or experienced food and some of the not-so-pretty elements of my food history with my family, with my dad, and I really wanted to focus on teaching young kids who reside in lower-income communities that are affected by food apartheid, I wanted to be able to provide them with basic kitchen skills.
It doesn't mean that they're going to be the next greatest chef, but it means that if they're in the fifth or sixth grade, they could come home and make a meal, a simple meal for themselves that is nutritional, but also make something sweet. I always tell the kids, like, "Yeah, I want you to eat well, but I also want you to enjoy the sweet things of life in moderation." And if you're going to eat something sweet, don't let it be over-processed or some packaged good. Let it be fresh ingredients made from scratch so that we know what's going into our food. And when you make something, you appreciate it more and you're less likely to eat more.
That's one element in which I give back and that is largely due to my dad growing up with a lot of food insecurities, growing up in the projects on the West Side of Chicago, how that trauma was passed going down to me, the way that he ate, the way that he fed me. The way that he viewed food really affected me in an impactful way that was not necessarily a positive impact, but I am grateful for the way that I experienced those things because it led me to my life's path.
Jessie Sheehan:
It's like his legacy, even if in the moment not everything that was going on was positive, what an incredible legacy he gave you because of how it inspires you now to help all these kids and you were once one of them.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. I want to talk about “Bake Squad” on Netflix. If you could tell us a teeny bit about the show and then I've watched the Bar Mitzvah episode in which you won. If you could tell us a little bit about what you made for that episode.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
So “Bake Squad” is a baking competition, but it's not your typical baking competition because it's not cutthroat. It's fun. It's very inclusive. There's a certain camaraderie that all of us have. It's a feel-good show.
Basically, we are introduced to someone who is activating or throwing a party or event or celebrating a special occasion and they're looking for a dessert to choose for that occasion. So we come up with the ideas and we bake whatever it is that we come up with, present it to the guests, and they choose, and they usually have a really hard time choosing because they have such great options, four great options in front of them.
We have Christophe who specializes in sugar work. We have Ashley who specializes in cake sculpting. Gonzo specializes in chocolate work, and I specialize in interesting unorthodox flavor combinations. I feel like I'm lucky because I can do it all, and if I'm making cake, then Ashley's like, "Wait a minute." If I'm working with chocolate, Gonzo's like, "Wait a minute." And I'm like, "Hey, I could do it all."
So for the Bar Mitzvah episode, that was really fun because I imagined what kind of party I would've wanted when I was turning, what is it, 13? He really loved cars and I just wanted... You know what? I just finished watching the Formula 1 series on Netflix. I cannot remember the name of the show, but it follows all of the Formula 1 drivers and I've never been into it, but I love documentaries and follow docs.
Jessie Sheehan:
I heard that show was amazing. I haven't watched it yet, but it's on my list.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Yeah, it's actually really interesting, and again, I love follow docs because I like experiencing something that I previously might've been ignorant about, and so it was very fascinating and I fell in love with the show. So when the mother said that her son was really into cars, I knew exactly what I wanted to do.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's amazing. Can you tell us what you did? I loved it.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Sure. So I called it Josh's refueling station, but I wanted it to look like a pit stop at a Formula 1 race car event, and I made a cake that looked like a tire, so we had actual tires, and then one of the tires was a cake and I wanted it to blend in with the actual tires that were not edible. And then we had almost a workman's bench and I made wrenches out of hard candy, so it was like a Jolly Rancher type of candy, and we had donuts. And Josh loves everything chocolate, everything junk food, so I just wanted it to be an explosion of everything that he loved.
I think that when people watch “Bake Squad,” they assume that every single bake is going to be gigantic, like one gigantic sculptural element. But for me, I love little things, a bunch of little things. I love a person being able to take something and having their own personal item to eat, but by doing a lot of little things, I could also have multiple types of desserts that I am displaying. So that was really fun to do.
Jessie Sheehan:
We'll be right back.
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. Kerry Diamond here, host of Radio Cherry Bombe. Team Cherry Bombe and I are having the best time on our Summer Tastemaker Tour presented by the Visa Dining Collection by OpenTable and Visa. So far, we've visited the Commodore Perry Estate in Austin and Wildflower Farms in the Hudson Valley, both beautiful locations, and each stop an unforgettable celebration of food and community. Thank you to everyone who joined us. But we're not done yet. We've got two stops left. We'll be in the gorgeous Willamette Valley in Oregon at The Ground this Friday, July 25th, and then we're wrapping things up in one of my favorite cities, Nashville, Tennessee, at the Frist Art Museum on Friday, August 15th. Tickets are sold out, but you can join the waitlist at cherrybombe.com. The link is in our show notes. Access is available for eligible Visa credit card holders. Terms and conditions apply. We hope to see you on the road.
Jessie Sheehan:
Now, back to our guest. All right, now we're on to the salted caramel peach pie. We're going to talk about the ingredients and the tools and the assembly. You write that this is a great starter pie. I think partly because it has no crust, which I won't lie, even as a professional baker, I love a pie that does not have two crusts.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Oh, yeah. Open-face pies? Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, I love that. And I also think this pie is a great starter pie because it's a super simple filling and there's no parbaking of the crust, so you just make your crust, chill it, and fill it, which I love.
I know the pie was inspired by your mom's peach cobbler. Can you tell us a little bit about that peach cobbler?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
So my mom really doesn't cook or bake much, but that is her one staple dish that she can make and that people request, and that is her peach cobbler. Everyone thinks, "Oh, my mom makes the best peach cobbler," but one that she does is she pre-cooks the peaches in the sugar, the butter, and the spices where some people might just cobble everything together and put it in the baking dish. And I think that pre-cooking, it really allows the sweetness and the warmth of the spices to be fully infused into the peaches and to create that syrup. That's what we love. We love the sweet brown sugar syrup that oozes from the peach cobbler.
Cobbler is something that is cobbled together, so it's not necessarily pretty. Although I love my mom's peach cobbler, I wanted to create something that was pretty and that would give me a nice clean slice.
Jessie Sheehan:
I think also in the headnote of this recipe, you write about measuring ingredients by eye and cooking by vibration. Can you just tell the listeners about by eye and cooking by vibration?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
The only thing that I knew the measurement of when my mom made her peach cobbler was how many cans of peaches she used. Everything else was measured by eye, by vibration. Just shaking cinnamon into the pot until the ancestors tell you to stop, or as my mom says, "Eyeballing it." I think that's so funny. Eyeball, like, "Well, what am I looking for?"
Jessie Sheehan:
What's my eyeball supposed to do?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
What is my eyeball supposed to do? I know that a part of that is tasting as you go along, which is something that you typically don't do in baking. That's a culinary aspect, to taste and adjust as you are cooking, but when you're baking, you only get one chance once you develop your recipe. So with the salted caramel peach pie, I wanted to make sure I got correct measurements and that I was able to pull all of the aromas and flavors that are in a peach cobbler and make it nice and neat.
Jessie Sheehan:
So first we'll talk about the all-butter pie dough. The first thing you do is you chill the water, you put ice cubes in some water, and then you also chill the cubed butter by cubing it, putting it on a parchment-lined baking sheet, and slide it into the freezer, which I love. And then the second thing we do is we grab a large bowl.
Do you like to use a big glass Pyrex bowl or do you like metal bowls or do you sort of grab what you have?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
I have both, but I do, if I'm making a video, I use a translucent glass bowl, or if I'm teaching a class, I use that so that people can see the texture. If I'm just working in the kitchen, I'll just use a metal bowl.
Jessie Sheehan:
And you're going to whisk together some of your dry ingredients. Do you have a favorite whisk that you like to use?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
You know, I don't make... And this is what was really interesting about writing the book is everything I do is such large batches, I'm making pies out of a commercial kitchen, and so I had to translate everything to a home kitchen. I rarely bake at home because after standing up for 14, 16 hours, all I do is make myself a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and plop on the couch and rub my dog's belly. But when I am in my commercial kitchen, I just use a whisk attachment for a 30-quart or a 60-quart Hobart mixer.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep, makes sense. So you're going to whisk together some flour. Do you have a favorite brand of flour?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
I like using, of course, high-protein flour. King Arthur is a great brand. We also use Sarasota. But yeah, I think that works. And I do think that most important, it has to be unbleached. The brand of any ingredient that you're working with really matters in terms of the quality of your pie. If someone sends me a DM or email to say, "I made this pie and it looks nothing like the picture in your book," sometimes it's the ingredient, the brand. People don't often realize that.
One Thanksgiving, my flour was not available and I had to use the only flour that was available was bleached. I was devastated. It was the worst Thanksgiving ever, and I was trying to make it work, but that flour was the worst.
Jessie Sheehan:
What was different about using the bleached versus the unbleached? What did you notice?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Well, first of all, working with it, the bleached flour tears my hands up, tears it up. But the quality, the way the crust holds up is not the same.
Jessie Sheehan:
I get it. So we have our flour, high-protein, we have our bowl, our whisk. There's a teeny bit of sugar in the pie dough, which I think it's the same pie dough for savory quiche, so the sugar is probably there more for a little color and a little flavor, but not to taste sweet, is that right?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Right. I do not make sweet crust. I know that people have a sweet crust recipe and a savory recipe for their crust, but I like having a good amount of salt content in my sweet pies and in my savory pies. So I use a savory crust for both, whether it's a sweet pie or a savory pie.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, there's kosher salt in the pie. And then now we take the chilled butter out of the freezer, add it to the flour mixture. Your preference is for people to use their hands, to use a pastry cutter or a fork. Is there a brand of pastry cutter that you like or a style of pastry cutter?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
I really do like using OXO brand of just tools in general. Very sturdy, very easy to clean, so yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
I like that too.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
And they think of the comfort of the handles, and so I like that too.
Jessie Sheehan:
I think so too. Yeah, it's not uncomfortable. I have an old-fashioned pastry cutter, I can't remember where I got it, but it literally hurts your hand to hold it.
So you're using a pastry cutter or a fork, though you can use a food processor or a stand mixer if you have to. But the most important thing is that, oh, and I love this that you wrote, "With most things that require your hands, practice is on the road to a place called perfection."
Could you also, if you weren't going to use the pastry cutter or a fork, could you just get in there with your fingers?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Yeah, I actually think that's the best way because you're not going to naturally overwork the butter, but also the warmth of your hands is going to naturally sort of melt the butter a little bit. Even though we want to make the crust with very cold butter, with the warmth of your hands slightly melts the butter, it helps to meld that butter and flour together. So the butter, I feel like, is better coated with flour, and then as you're feeling it instinctively when something is just the right size.
Jessie Sheehan:
Right. And the size is about a half an inch, no larger than a pea?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Mm-hmm.
Jessie Sheehan:
Next, you add about a quarter cup of the ice water into the flour and the butter, and now we're using our hands to kind of gently work the wet and the dry together. What are we doing with our hands? Are we kind of pinching? Are we tossing? What's the first thing we should do when we mix those ingredients if we're using our hands?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
So I almost use my hand like a spoon at first, scooping it around the bowl. But if I am working with a missing bowl, oftentimes the dry ingredients get stuck and hide on the bottom. And so I start out by scooping my hand in a circular motion, but then I'm also turning the ball that begins to form in the center. I'm turning it and I'm trying to scoop up the dry ingredients at the same time that I'm turning it to make sure that gets incorporated with the slightly sticky, wet ball that's forming in the center.
Jessie Sheehan:
Now you're going to flour your work surface, knead the dough a little bit, shape it into a disc, wrap it, refrigerate for an hour up to three days.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Well, one thing I want to mention is when I create that disc and before I wrap it, I want to make sure that there are no open seams in the crust because if dry flour gets in those seams, then when you try to roll it out, your disc is going to crack as it widens.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's such a good tip. I did not even know that. So when you are massaging it and turning it into a disc, you are making sure that there are no big cracks, no fissures.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Right. And sometimes it's easier to do that once you put cling wrap on it. So put the cling wrap on it and then massage the disc into a round, more perfect disc, but also look for the seams and just press it together because that cling wrap is providing all that moisture. It's going to trap it in and your pie crust won't split.
Jessie Sheehan:
You're going to refrigerate and then preheat your oven to 350. And now I love this. Before you pull out that disc to roll it out, you're going to chill your countertop and I love that. Can you tell the listeners how you chill your countertop?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
So you could place a very large bowl of ice and water onto your countertop, and this is really great if you're working with granite or a marble countertop because it's going to chill and hold that coldness longer. But also, the reason why we chill the countertop is because when I pull that disc from the fridge, if it's too hard, it's going to be very hard to roll out.
So I, again, start to massage that disc to sort of bring it just right under room temperature, but I don't want something to be too warm and too sticky. So if I've warmed up the chilled disc with my hands, I now have a cool countertop to work with so that it's not just a hot mess, literally.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. So then you lightly... Well, first you dry the counter in case it got a little condensation from the bowl of ice and water, dry the countertop, lightly flour it, and start rolling out your dough, rolling away from your body, kind of moving the dough to form a circle as you work. And then it's about a 12-inch round. You're going to-
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Or one inch. So if you put your baking dish over the crust, just make sure you have one inch room, a one-inch border outside if you're a baking dish because maybe you don't have a nine-inch pie plate at home, maybe you only have this casserole dish that you're working with, and maybe your crust is not a circle, but it's a square, a rectangle.
Jessie Sheehan:
Also, maybe you don't have a ruler in your kitchen, so you don't even know what 12 inches is.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Right.
Jessie Sheehan:
So that's a great tip is if you put your pie plate down, you'll know exactly how big-
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Eyeball.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, exactly. I listened to a podcast that you did with Al Roker, and I think you talked about your favorite pie plate, correct? Because maybe you were talking about glass versus aluminum, but you said you like to use aluminum. Can you tell us why aluminum over glass?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Better heat conduction. Glass, even though it's pretty and you can see your goods baking, it's cute, an aluminum pie plate is best for heat conduction. We want that nice, sturdy, as Erin McDowell likes to say, "Sturdy crust," a nice sturdy, crispy, buttery, well-browned crust.
Jessie Sheehan:
And so we put our dough circle into our pie plate, we crimp our edges, and then we place that in the refrigerator just while we're assembling the filling. I already said this, but I love that you do not need to parbake the crust. It's just easy-peasy, which is what I love.
So the filling, as you describe it, it's almost like a spongy cake-like texture. In a large bowl, you're going to whisk some melted butter, an egg, some granulated and some brown sugar, kosher salt, vanilla. Do you have a favorite brand of vanilla?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Nielsen's. Yeah, and I mean, I'm partial because they're based out of the Chicago area, but it's great. It's so good.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love it too. And then you add some cinnamon and some nutmeg, and do you have a favorite spice brand?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Burlap & Barrel makes a really great cinnamon. That cinnamon is so good and it makes a difference. You can tell.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, you really can. So then you're going to whisk up all of these ingredients in your bowl and you're going to now use a silicone spatula. Do you have a favorite brand of silicone spatula?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Oh, I have so many silicone spatulas. I have 25, and that's like the one kitchen tool that I'm obsessed with, and I use OXO.
Jessie Sheehan:
So you got your OXO silicone spatula, or you said you can use a large spoon. Would that just be like a big wooden spoon?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Mm-hmm.
Jessie Sheehan:
And you're going to stir in flour and also oats, which must add a really nice kind of toothsome texture.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
It's a very unpopular opinion, but I love oatmeal raisin cookies. I know people are like, "Ew. I got tricked into thinking it was chocolate chip," but I love oatmeal. I do.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yum. Is there a favorite brand of oatmeal, of rolled oats that you would use in this pie?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
In the kitchen, we honestly just use Quaker Oats, but that is a really good question. I do like Trader Joe's brands, and I like that they have so many different options for oatmeal.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yum. Now we're going to fold in canned, drained, sliced peaches, and I love that this pie calls for canned peaches. I feel like that's unusual, and I wonder if you've ever tried it with fresh peaches, if it would work with fresh peaches. First of all, I love the way canned peaches taste, but I also love things in the kitchen and things in the baking world that make it just a little easier and more accessible for people that might be intimidated by buying a dozen peaches and having to take the skins off and all of that. So I love that. Have you ever tried?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
I mean, look, when it comes to Thanksgiving, I want my cranberry sauce in a can. Okay? I am not afraid of anything canned. I know that some chefs will say, "It's not chef-y enough," or, "it's a shortcut." There's nothing wrong with a shortcut every now and then.
The reason why I use canned peaches is because that syrup that the peaches have been sitting in helps to loosen the batter that we're using for the pie filling, and that's very important. I think frozen peaches, you will almost have to precook the peaches and make your own syrup, but who really wants to do that? You just want to hurry up and eat this pie.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's what I'm-
Maya-Camille Broussard:
So, using canned peaches is the way to go, and don't be afraid, even though this is salted caramel peach pie, don't be afraid to make this a peach and pear pie as well.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. And I agree. So now we've folded in our canned peaches. We placed the pie plate on a baking sheet. Is there a favorite kind of baking sheet? Do you like the ones with the sides around the edges, and is there a brand you like?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
No, I just use aluminum, like aluminum foil, Handi-foil, and there's a reason why. It's because whenever you are slicing pie, getting that first slice out is the hardest. But even if you're using a ceramic baking dish, it's so hard. It's like, "Okay, I want it to look pretty, but it's so difficult to get this pie slicer in there." So with an aluminum pie plate, I pop out the crust-
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, that's great.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
... out of the whole entire plate, and then set that down on the cutting board and just cut it like that.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's great. I also was going to say, I think it was Claire Saffitz who was on the podcast and she told me a great trick that she learned from Martha Stewart. You take your pie, you cut the first slice, but don't take it out. Then you cut the second slice and then it's easier to pull out the first slice. And I tried it and she's not wrong. I wouldn't say it worked out perfectly, but it was a pretty good tip.
That's why you love your aluminum pans. What about when you take the pie plate, and I think you have us put it on a baking sheet, is that to stop the pie from dripping into your oven?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Yes, yep. But for this pie, I don't typically have to do that. In all of the recipes, I suggest that you do that so that it's easier to take in and out of the oven without having to touch the pie. But the filling, it's not loose.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, of course.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
So I don't have any worries about any spillage in the oven. Let's say if it's a quiche, oh yeah, I get nervous. So put that on a baking sheet, for sure.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we place it in the oven. When it's time to take out the pie, you use a cake tester to test it. You say cake tester or toothpick. I really love long wooden skewers.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Skewer, mm-hmm.
Jessie Sheehan:
What's your favorite way to test a pie or a cake?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Whatever I have in front of me. So sometimes that's a butter knife. Nobody's going to notice the cut.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. And then you know it's done when whatever the cake tester has come out clean. You don't want a moist crumb or anything like that on the tester. You want it to be clean?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Yes, because you do want it to be cooked all the way through. I know that in my kitchen, some of my assistants have overfilled some of the pie pans. The top would be done, but the center is still a little raw. And when I tell people I'm measuring each pie, we weigh each pie when we fill it because it makes a difference in how it's baked. I'm not trying to be stingy with how much I give someone. You're going to get a wet pie if I don't measure it out.
So avoid that temptation to make this pie really deep. This is not like a cookie where you want it to be underbaked or slightly underbaked. You do want this to be baked all the way through.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love the way a deep dish pie looks, but the problem is the top burns before the center is cooked through, and I always do better when I'm making just an eight-inch or nine-inch. Well, usually nine-inch pie.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Two inches.
Jessie Sheehan:
With a regular crust because then it's still, as we all know, it takes a long time to bake a pie. I think this one is an hour and 10 minutes, but it will be done and the top will be beautiful and the middle will be cooked and you don't have to worry.
So while the pie is baking, we make the salted caramel sauce. First, you have a small saucepan. Do you like to use metal? Do you like to use a Dutch oven to make the caramel in?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
I primarily use a Dutch oven with my praline sauce because I don't have to babysit it in the way that I have to babysit caramel. But when you're caramelizing anything, whether it's onions or whether you're making caramel from scratch, I do think that a metal saucer works best because you're going to get that caramelization. You're going to get that browning that you need and the color that you need.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. So you're going to put some heavy cream into a little pot and warm it up. And I assume you do that first so that when you add the heavy cream later, it doesn't explode.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Sizzle and violently hiss.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. Then we take a medium saucepan and over medium-high heat, we're going to caramelize some sugar, stirring with a silicone spatula until the sugar turns a deep amber color. I'm impressed that you don't use any water because I usually use water because it just is a little safer for me. I'm always worried that I'll burn the sugar if I don't add some water.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
I've tried both techniques and the water just doesn't give me... It takes longer. It takes longer and I got things to do.
Jessie Sheehan:
I feel the same way because I like things to move quickly for better or for worse. And it is true, when you add the water, it slows down the caramelization process and it's a little more tedious.
Then we're going to add butter to the caramelized sugar, and I love that you use the word hissing to describe that. I think that's a very evocative description of what it sounds like and what it is. And then you whisk until the butter melts, remove from the heat, pour in the cream until the caramel is well-blended, you're whisking, and then vanilla and salt, and then you're done.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
And then you're done.
Jessie Sheehan:
And I know you like to serve the pie a little bit warm.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Do you like to have the caramel sauce a little bit warm too?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Yes, yes. This is one of the pies in the book that I definitely say, even if it's two days old, wrap it in some foil and pop it in the oven for 20 minutes. This is the pie that is best served warm.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. And also, can I put vanilla ice cream on it?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Why not? Or butter pecan or-
Jessie Sheehan:
Yum. Or even-
Maya-Camille Broussard:
... or rum raisin?
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh. Even whipped cream.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Oh, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Actually, I won't lie. I like both. I want ice cream and cream on my pie.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Well, in the cookbook, I have a vanilla Chantilly cream. So yeah, a nice silky-smooth alternative to whipped cream, so you can use that on your pies.
Jessie Sheehan:
So yummy.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
And the caramel sauce I love because sometimes, so I have a recipe for billowy biscuits, and sometimes I want to put something savory between the biscuits. Sometimes I want something sweet. If I don't have syrup, then I can use the caramel sauce. We actually do that in our kitchen. If we have the little biscuit ends that don't quite make a whole biscuit, we'll just pop that in and we'll have that as a snack in the kitchen and we'll just put some caramel sauce on it. It's so good.
Jessie Sheehan:
It sounds delicious. I would probably want ice cream and whipped cream with that too. I'd probably take the biscuit, fill it with ice cream, and then cover it in caramel sauce.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
I like that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Right? So good. I just wanted to mention a couple of other recipes that I loved from the book. The blue cheese, and I'm going to say it the way I think you say it because I usually say praline, but I'm going to say blue cheese praline-
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Yes, praline,
Jessie Sheehan:
... pear pie. Can you describe that pie for us?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
I am a huge proponent of sweet and salty, and I love the funkiness of blue cheese, and the praline sauce is actually not that sweet. It has a nuttiness to it, but the pear feeling is sweet.
When people hear me say, "Blue cheese praline pear pie," they turn up their nose. The people who are adventurous and daring will say, "Oh, I would like to try that." When I first debuted this pie, I think it was in 2015, everyone turned their nose up on it and then they ate it and they said, "Oh my gosh, this is my favorite pie." Out of my friendship circle, that's their favorite pie, that or key line.
Now when I'm trying to sell it... Back in the days when I had to actually sell my pie verbally and convince the customer to buy it, I would say, "It tastes like a PayDay bar, a PayDay candy bar, that sweet and saltiness." And I said, "You don't even taste the blue cheese." You get a little hit of that funk, but it's not like you're eating hot wings with blue cheese. It's not like I'm telling you guys to eat this with ranch dressing, but it adds a nice little bit of balance to the sweetness because the filling, the pear filling, is really sweet with the brown sugar, and then it has a crumble topping that also has brown sugar and butter in it, but that's a lot of sweetness going on. So to balance that out, the nuttiness of the praline sauce and the funkiness of the blue cheese mellows it out really nicely. I think it's one of my best sellers when I sell it.
Jessie Sheehan:
It reminds me of you know how you'll have a salad in a restaurant that has pears, Gorgonzola, and nuts, and it's like all of those things?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
And dried cranberries and all of that, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, totally. It's like that in a pie. I love that.
Because I'm a chocolate peanut butter fanatic, I love the chocolate peanut butter and pretzel tart. Can you tell us about that pie?
Maya-Camille Broussard:
I do love, I love peanut. I love Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's my favorite candy.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Yes. So I used to bite off the edges and spit it out because it was too thick of a chocolate. I just wanted the peanut butter with a thin layer of encased chocolate, so I thought about that with a pie. But also, there's a restaurant in Chicago called Bongo Room, and they make pretzel pancakes. Oh my gosh. So good, so good. And they serve it with white chocolate and caramel sauce. So good. Bits of pretzel, bits in the pancake, but also the pancake batter's pretzel bread consistency is so good.
I am always inspired by the work that other people do, and it's not a copy, but it's just taking... They serve it with white chocolate, but this is clearly dark and milk chocolate. I'm always inspired by the type of ingredients they're using, and I think about, "How can I remix it like a '90s song?"
Jessie Sheehan:
I also think pretzels are like an underrated baking ingredient. I love a pretzel crust for a pie where instead of using cookies, you use pretzels.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
It's really hard because of the graininess of the pretzel crumbs, but if you could pull it off, it's so good.
Jessie Sheehan:
It's so good. In my last cookbook, I have a recipe for fudge that has potato chips and pretzels in it because, like what you are describing-
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Sweet and salty.
Jessie Sheehan:
... I loved and I love chocolate and pretzels.
I also just wanted to shout out your whoopie pies because first of all, I'm a whoopie pie lover from way back, and I also love, I think I heard you say in a podcast that you put the whoopie pies in the book so that kids who might be reading your book, maybe some of the ones who you work with and who take classes with you, can actually access the book without a mom or dad, or at least they're able to make something that's not quite as complicated or as labor-intensive as a pie.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
One thing I knew that I wanted to do when I set out to write the book is also have varying degrees of difficulty, and not just for kids, but for some adults who may be intimidated by the idea that, "Okay, this is a multistep process in which I have to make the crust. I have to chill the crust. I got to pull it out. I got to roll it. Then I got to make the filling. Then I got..." Hey, you want a quick snack? I got whoopie pies for you, and it only takes 12 to 15 minutes to bake. You get that instant gratification because I do know we live in a microwave society and that we like to have things quickly done or what have you.
So pie is one of the complicated art forms of baking because there are so many steps and it takes time, but I wanted to offer something that could be done rather quickly, and you could get that instant gratification.
Jessie Sheehan:
I also love that the whoopie pie recipes don't call for a stand mixer. Often people will require a piece of equipment when you make a whoopie pie, and you just have you take that softened butter and you're just creaming it in a bowl with a spatula, and I love you for that.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
It's easy.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, easy-peasy.
So your bakery has been operating as a satellite bakery for all these years, but I think you have some news and something coming in June.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Yes. After eight years of working in 125-square-foot kitchen, I am now moving into my own 3,800-square-foot space!
Jessie Sheehan:
Amazing.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Yeah. Justice of the Pies is getting its own storefront bakery that will be opening this summer.
Jessie Sheehan:
That is amazing. I can't wait to come and visit you, and I hope all of the listeners are going to come with me.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
And it won't be just pies, but there'll also be desserts that I consider to be nostalgic desserts from my childhood, so I'm really excited about that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh, I love nostalgic desserts. Yum.
Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today, Maya-Camille, and I just want you to know that you are my cherry pie.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Aw. And you are my cutie pie.
Jessie Sheehan:
Love that.
That's it for today's show. Don't forget to follow She's My Cherry Pie on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and tell your pals about us. You can find today's recipe at cherrybombe.com. She's My Cherry Pie is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Our producers are Kerry Diamond, Catherine Baker, and Jenna Sadhu. Thank you so much for listening to She's My Cherry Pie and happy baking.