Olivia Colman & Dorothy Barrick Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe magazine.
On today's show, it's world-renowned actor, Olivia Colman, who joins me to talk about her brand new movie, “The Roses,” a dark comedy that opens this Friday. “The Roses” is a remake of “The War of the Roses.” Anybody out there remember that one? A movie from 1989, starring Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner. In this new version, Olivia plays Ivy, a chef and restaurateur married to Theo Rose, a frustrated architect, played by Benedict Cumberbatch. All my food friends out there will love seeing Chef Ivy in action, and watching two of the great actors of our time, Olivia and Benedict, I love them both, play off of each other. Olivia, as lots of you know, also played Chef Terry on “The Bear” and starred in one of my favorite “Bear” episodes of all time, Forks. If you haven't seen that episode, go back and check it out. It's in season three. Anyway, Chef Ivy and Chef Terry could not be more different, as Olivia is about to tell us. Joining Olivia is Dorothy Barrick, the food stylist on “The Roses.” Dorothy and Olivia talk about their collaboration and what it took to bring Ivy's culinary world to life in the movie. Stay tuned for our chat.
Today's show is presented by Square. Some of you might not know this, but years ago, I owned a cute little coffee shop in Brooklyn. I sold it because I couldn't do Cherry Bombe and the coffee shop at the same time, but I learned so much about running a small business and having a brick-and-mortar location. One of my favorite tools was our Square POS. We did everything from there, ringing sales, keep an eye on inventory, and track the discounts we offered every time customers brought in their reusable coffee cups. I appreciated how easy it was to use for me and the team. Training was a snap because the interface was so clean and well-designed. Today, Square, the point of sale technology that helps you manage everything from payments to staff, customers, insights, and lots more, has the backs of more than seven million businesses. The team at Square knows how hard you're hustling to keep your businesses alive and thriving and that you're looking for ways to save time and be more efficient. Just in time for summer dining? Square has a new lightweight POS device that literally fits in your pocket, called Square Handheld. It lets you take table-side orders, process payments, and manage inventory. I would have loved to have had that back in the day. When your restaurant is on your mind, which is probably all the time if you're like I was, think big and stress less with Square. Go to square.com/big to see how Square can help you. That link is in our show notes.
A little housekeeping before we get to Olivia and Dorothy. The new issue of Cherry Bombe's print magazine is almost here. It's all about Italy, and we have two covers with two brilliant chefs, Missy Robbins and Nancy Silverton, and, yes, you can choose which cover you want. If you subscribe today, literally today, you'll be in the first mailing and are guaranteed to get an issue. I have a feeling this one is going to sell out, so don't miss out. It's a dreamy issue that will have you craving both pasta and a trip to Italy. Visit cherrybombe.com for more.
Also, we're announcing all of our speakers very soon for the Cherry Bombe Jubilee conference in Los Angeles, taking place Sunday, September 28th. Our Jubilee conferences are amazing get-togethers featuring the most inspiring women in and around the food world. If you've been to a past Jubilee, you know what I'm talking about. You can snag a ticket at cherrybombe.com. If you're an official Cherry Bombe member, be sure to use your special member discount when buying a ticket. If you're not an official member yet, don't worry, you can join today and receive access to the private ticket link. I'll put all the links for the magazine, Jubilee, Square, and Olivia's movie, “The Roses,” in the show notes.
Now let's check in with today's guests. Hi, Olivia. So nice to meet you.
Olivia Colman:
Hi, and you, hello.
Kerry Diamond:
And Dorothy, hello.
Dorothy Barrick:
Hi. Hi, Kerry. So nice to see you.
Kerry Diamond:
You too. I haven't seen you in ages in person.
Dorothy Barrick:
I know.
Kerry Diamond:
Congratulations. I watched the movie last night. Olivia, it was wonderful seeing you and Benedict together, but I have to confess, I'm very happy to be single, having watched the movie.
Olivia Colman:
Yeah, there is that. Yeah, that's funny. We've had a lot of people asking what advice we'd give to couples, but there is of course, maybe don't become a couple is one thing that came out of the film.
Kerry Diamond:
Olivia, Ivy is the second chef you've portrayed recently. I'm curious, what is it about playing a chef that's appealing to you?
Olivia Colman:
Well, I think it was more that it was “The Bear” as a whole that you just would be mad to say no to. And also, this was with Benedict, who's a friend, and Tony McNamara, who wrote it, which you wouldn't say no to, so it's accidental that they're both chefs.
Kerry Diamond:
So accidental chef. Okay.
Olivia Colman:
Yeah, the accidental chef.
Kerry Diamond:
Ivy is so different from Chef Terry, who you play on “The Bear.”
Olivia Colman:
Yes. She's a little more relaxed maybe, in the beginning anyway when she's stoned and she's only got three customers, but she isn't very Chef Terry.
Kerry Diamond:
Not at all. Dorothy, I'm curious, from your perspective, how would you describe Ivy?
Dorothy Barrick:
I thought after reading the script, as Olivia described her, quite loose and quite ... I thought what a great chef character to be talking in the garden and coming in and having the luxury of having money in California and all this wonderful produce, but at the same time, the frustration of not really doing her thing.
Kerry Diamond:
Olivia, why do you think Tony wanted Ivy to be a chef? What is a chef shorthand for?
Olivia Colman:
Oh, I have no idea. My God, you're asking questions that no one has ever asked. I don't know. There's something about the creativity of her. I suppose you get wonderful people who can create things, who are in their own homes, creating beautiful food, who never get noticed. And she did end up, with the support of her husband, he said you should do this, and maybe that was ... I don't know why Tony chose a chef. It could be all sorts of reasons when you're making a film. Maybe a kitchen is an easy set to find. I don't know. I love the fact that food and passion and feeding her family and there's something glorious about someone who loves food as much as she does.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you cook?
Olivia Colman:
I can cook if I can follow a recipe.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay.
Olivia Colman:
I'm not the sort of person who can open the fridge and just make something wonderful out of four random things that are in there. I love baking, and I do love cooking, but I do have to follow a recipe, unless it's something that I've done over and over again. Yeah, I'm not like you guys.
Kerry Diamond:
Have you been on the “Great British Bake Off” yet?
Olivia Colman:
Not yet.
Kerry Diamond:
Maybe this will lead to that. Did you have to do any training or preparation to play a chef, either Terry or Ivy?
Olivia Colman:
No. For Terry, they did say we're going to be doing, what was it called, spiraled mushrooms, so I had a little practice. We're looking at a Google thing, and I was terrible at it, and when I got there, they said, we've decided we're just going to peel them. I went, oh, thank God, because I was really bad at the spiral thing. So that was fun. But apart from that, because Chef Terry is mainly looking at other people cooking, and Ivy is basically just putting something she's finished on the plate, which is what Dorothy has done, so I didn't really have to do anything.
Kerry Diamond:
How did you two work together on set?
Olivia Colman:
Dorothy just did all the hard work.
Dorothy Barrick:
I do all of the background work and then come in and Olivia makes it looks easy.
Kerry Diamond:
The food is almost a character in this movie. You've got the crabs, the raspberries, the elaborate architectural cakes, citrus. I'm just curious for you Dorothy, versus other movies where the food is really either it's something in the background, it's lush or lovely, how is this different for you?
Dorothy Barrick:
This was different because there was a lot of it, and I think it was also maybe there's the writer, there's the director, everyone was so involved and I think things, kind of, moved around. The initial ideas changed and things changed a lot. It was just, kind of, staying on my toes and trying to figure out what these dishes were where I would get maybe loads of references and director, I want this stew that the critic is tasting. It needs to be a stew. And they would send me colors and it wasn't working, and then I thought, oh gosh, what is it going to be? So there was a lot of trial and error and mad trying things at home and sending videos and sending pictures and running out and going to Billingsgate at 3:00 a.m. to get certain things. So it was a lot.
Olivia Colman:
Yeah. It's fascinating to hear all this. Because I know, of course, that everyone who's creating all this stuff behind the scenes is doing huge amounts of work, but like Billingsgate at 3:00 a.m. and the different trials, recipes at home, gosh, it's so nice that you get the chance to say this because all these people in the background, the creatives are never asked to do interviews. It's really nice.
Dorothy Barrick:
No, it is nice. Thank you.
Olivia Colman:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, it is fun to talk to both of you. Olivia, have you ever worked in restaurants?
Olivia Colman:
Yes. My first job was in a pub in Blakeney, which is a little seaside town where I'm from, and I worked in the bar bit and in the kitchen, just waitressing. And then I worked in pizza, was it Pizza Express, I think it was, in Norwich, which is the big city where I'm from, and that was it. I think just those two places. And then I ended up learning to type, so then I earned a couple more pounds per hour by typing instead.
Kerry Diamond:
How was your restaurant experience?
Olivia Colman:
I wasn't great at it. I'm not going to lie. I wasn't the best waitress ever. I was enthusiastic but often forget things.
Kerry Diamond:
I have to ask because I was amazed that there's not one but two scenes where there's sex in a walk-in, which is something that's kind of frowned on today, but entertaining.
Olivia Colman:
Never done that. I don't like the cold, so it wouldn't work for me.
Kerry Diamond:
Dorothy, I'm not going to put you on the spot and ask you, but feel free to volunteer whether that's something you're familiar with or not.
Dorothy Barrick:
Maybe not in a walk-in. In the '90s in New York, there might have been some odd places, though.
Olivia Colman:
Great answer, Dorothy.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, we've got a second interview, Dorothy, so there's going to be a follow-up question to that. Because of the nature of what Ivy did for a living, were craft services better than the typical set?
Olivia Colman:
Oh, did we have craft on this though? I hadn't had craft services on a film for years and then I did a ... I think Murder on the Orient Express was the first time I'd had a proper craft tent. I couldn't believe it. I'd heard people talk about, particularly American films, and they have ... there's someone doing omelets all day or there's always something to go and eat. So I don't think we had craft on this one, did we, Dorothy? I don't think so.
Dorothy Barrick:
We did have craft, but I was so involved in ... I had-
Olivia Colman:
We did? We have…
Dorothy Barrick:
... scenes to work on, so I often brought things just so I didn't have to leave.
Olivia Colman:
I think we had the normal tea table type thing but not-
Dorothy Barrick:
It was, kind of, a normal type.
Olivia Colman:
And then occasionally, Ben, me, or Jay would hire a van that does lovely coffees and things.
Dorothy Barrick:
Exactly, you did do that. That was very nice.
Olivia Colman:
Yeah.
Dorothy Barrick:
And some little special days with pizza.
Olivia Colman:
Yeah, little treats, little pick-me-ups.
Dorothy Barrick:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's fun. How do you choose what to bring to set or hire to come to set?
Olivia Colman:
There's one particular coffee van that I hire on most jobs for a crew treat, called Any House, which are amazing ... Every House, Any House ... Any House.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's fun. That must make you popular, Olivia.
Olivia Colman:
I know. I'm terrible. I'm very shallow. I'm trying to buy my popularity.
Kerry Diamond:
I know we're not talking about Chef Terry today, but in reading about Chef Terry, Chris had said that it was based on Alice Waters and Marcella Hazan. Is there anyone you based Ivy on?
Olivia Colman:
No, I don't know. I think every character, I always try, there's always a bit of yourself, so I imagine what I would be like if I was a stoner but really brilliant in the kitchen, and it ended up like Ivy.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you know any female chefs?
Olivia Colman:
Yeah, Angela Hartnett, who I think I'm going to meet tomorrow, who I'm slightly obsessed with. And Ixta Belfrage, her book, “Mezcla,” is, oh my god, my favorite. The prawn lasagna in that, which I know it sounds bonkers, but it's utterly ... oh, it makes my ... my mouth is watering now.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, we love Ixta. She's great.
Olivia Colman:
Oh God, amazing. Thomasina Miers.
Kerry Diamond:
Just met her down at Ballymaloe a few weeks ago.
Olivia Colman:
Oh, really? My husband took our two eldest to Ballymaloe before the first went to uni, so they had a boys' trip, a bonding, learning how to cook trip together for a week in Ballymaloe.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's so much fun. When are you going to get to go to culinary school?
Olivia Colman:
Yeah, I should go. I don't know. I'll have to look in the diary.
Kerry Diamond:
And how about restaurants? Do you get to go to restaurants much, Olivia?
Olivia Colman:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
People know who you are. That can complicate things.
Olivia Colman:
I'm not the bravest, and I do tend to find a corner and face the wall, but I love food. Last night, we ate at Forza Wine at the National Theatre. It started up in Peckham. That's beautiful, little sharing plates. Ducksoup in Soho, amazing. And there's Luca, the Italian in Spitalfields. There's all sorts of places in Peckham, in South East London, where we lived for a long time. There's Meadowsweet. If you're ever in Holt, in North Norfolk, amazing, Michelin-starred restaurant. Oh, and French's Fish and Chips on the quay in Wells. It's the bullocks, which is a good thing where I come from.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm curious also what it was like playing a character who was violent at times, albeit comically, obviously? Is that a side you've been able to indulge in much on screen?
Olivia Colman:
It is. I'm slightly ashamed at how much fun it is to be a little bit violent, because I suppose women in particular are trained to not shout. It's not appealing to be angry and all this nonsense that we've been told. So actually, it is fun. I don't know if you've ever been boxing, but the release when you hit something, especially because you're not hurting anyone, it's really great. It's cathartic. To be able to shout and know that it's okay, everyone is all right, it's really enjoyable. So yeah, I loved it.
Kerry Diamond:
I've seen a lot of your movies, but I couldn't remember one in which you ran around with a gun.
Olivia Colman:
Hot fuzz.
Dorothy Barrick:
That was fun.
Kerry Diamond:
Last question. We ask everybody this, Olivia. If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Olivia Colman:
Oh, I think maybe Tom Kerridge. He looks like he'd just be really fun. He'd managed to make great big bowls of food out of whatever we found, make it delicious, and I bet he's really fun to sit and chat to.
Kerry Diamond:
Fun is key. Olivia, thank you for portraying two amazing female chefs. We don't get to see a lot of fictional female chefs on screen, so I love that you've played two who are so different and wonderful and memorable.
Olivia Colman:
Thank you so much. And well, thanks, Dorothy, for making it look like I knew what I was doing.
Kerry Diamond:
Thank you, Dorothy, and congratulations to you both. Bye-bye.
Olivia Colman:
Thank you so much. Nice talking to you.
Dorothy Barrick:
Yeah. Thank you so much, Kerry.
Kerry Diamond:
Thank you so much to Olivia and Dorothy. But don't go anywhere. We have a special part two with Dorothy. Being a movie food stylist is such a unique job. I wanted to talk to Dorothy a bit more. So she graciously came back for another chat about her life, work, and “The Roses.” I'm so excited for you to learn a little bit more about her. Dorothy Barrick, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Dorothy Barrick:
Hi, Kerry. I'm very excited to be here.
Kerry Diamond:
You were the food stylist on “The Roses,” or as they say in the U.K., you were the home economist. Tell us why they still call it a home economist over there.
Dorothy Barrick:
I don't know. Food stylist sounds way better. Home economist sounds very 1950s, but to be honest, sometimes it does involve weird household bits, so fair enough, but the name home ec, it just ... yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
How did you wind up working on the set of “The Roses?”
Dorothy Barrick:
I wound up working on “The Roses” because Jude Farr, the set decorator, we had worked the year before on a show, a Victorian show together, and that went really well. And I think when this came up, I'm American, I'm from the West Coast, I do fresh, healthy, pretty food, so I think the British couple, they're supposed to be living in Northern California, she thought it was probably a good fit.
Kerry Diamond:
Even though they're British, they're in coastal California, so you were probably the perfect person for that. When did prep start? I'm curious the timelines when you get hired to do a movie. Are they totally different or do you normally get X months of prep?
Dorothy Barrick:
Well, if I know that I'm going to be on something, it's not a last-minute thing. There's a couple of months in advance where you will get sent the script. We started with an initial probably phone call with Jude and then set up a Zoom meeting with Jay. And I believe Michelle, the producer, chatted through what his ideas and obviously what he wanted to see. And then after I had read the script, what I thought a funky pot-smoking West Coast chef-y mom would, I don't know, be foraging and be experimenting with.
Kerry Diamond:
And frustrated. You have to add frustrated. That's a big part of her character in the beginning.
Dorothy Barrick:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
What does prep entail? Do you have spreadsheets? Do you just use your notes app? Do you draw things in notebooks? What's your routine?
Dorothy Barrick:
I love an Excel spreadsheet. I'm not great at math. And I like a spreadsheet and my notes app in my phone for sure. I do lists. I do timelines. Then per the script, I love a mood board. I like to have images. I like Pinterest boards. I'm visual. I like all of that. Then with the set deck team, you'll often get their mood boards and their images and then you go back and forth until you're happy.
Kerry Diamond:
When you start working on set or behind the scenes, essentially, do you have everything you need or do you say to them like, “This is what I need in the kitchen for me to do my job,” or do they expect you to bring everything, the mixer, the blender, the knives?
Dorothy Barrick:
You're expected to bring everything, unless it's a bigger job that you know you're going to be on for a certain amount of time and there is a field kitchen that's set up. I've only done a couple of those bigger jobs where I am provided. Otherwise, can I have power? Can I have a few trestle tables, those big tables they set up? I'll bring my air fryer, my oven, my heat gun. You bring it all.
Kerry Diamond:
Your bags of tricks.
Dorothy Barrick:
Bags of tricks.
Kerry Diamond:
Exactly. I don't know if you two know each other personally. I know you know of Susan Spungen, who was the food stylist on “Julie & Julia.” Susan had told us that for some parts of that shooting, there was literally no running water, so they had a hose attached to something, and that's how they would wash dishes and get running water. And that was amazing to me because that was a fairly big-budget production. Have you been in situations where you really have to make do?
Dorothy Barrick:
It's mostly no running water here, to be honest. You bring your wash-up kit and your kettle that you boil water with. You're washing up with fair liquid. You make do. Running water is a massive luxury. If you know there's going to be a sink there, you're like, yes. It's often, yes, very minimal, and you just have to figure it out.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you have to do all this by yourself or do you wind up hiring an assistant or two?
Dorothy Barrick:
It depends. If it's small enough and manageable enough, I do it by myself. If there's the budget and they allow you to have an assistant, that's the best, definitely
Kerry Diamond:
Always the best. Shooting has begun. Where are you? Jay Roach is the director of “The Roses.” Are you standing around Jay Roach or are you somewhere off with a monitor? Set the picture for us.
Dorothy Barrick:
Okay. On “The Roses,” there's the cake scene. I'm just offset with six ... eight of those cakes, making sure it's all piped. It looks exactly the same. When that slice comes out, it looks for continuity, exactly the same, over and over again. Or one of the big dinner scenes, you have to come in and reset Olivia's plate. You have that fig that she's eating or the slice of carrots or you go around and know, and you see on the monitor who has done what. If they're eating that slice of carrot, they're going to be eating that over and over again.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you in charge of continuity or is there someone in charge of that on set?
Dorothy Barrick:
No, there's someone in charge of that, but you have to, for the food, know what's going on and know for continuity. You take lots of pictures and know who's eating what and where to reset, and it needs to look the same. And if you come back to that a week later and need to reshoot something, you need to have all that information.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I didn't even think about reshoots. So you really need to know. I guess, God bless the iPhone, right?
Dorothy Barrick:
God bless the iPhone.
Kerry Diamond:
Now it's becoming more and more difficult though with I think people are like, no photos on set. How much of the food is real food?
Dorothy Barrick:
It's all real food. Unless there are big dummy cakes, you might make a three-tiered cake, but they would usually say, well, let's just do that top layer that they're going to slice into as a real cake, and then you'll do times eight of the top layer. But in general, it's not like commercials or print where there's a lot of trickery. It's really like, I think, on film, you want it to be real, you want it to look fresh, you want it to look gorgeous. You might use a little oil or water spray or glycerin or something, but it's mostly real food, just reset again and refreshed.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you pressure yourself to make it delicious to help with the acting?
Dorothy Barrick:
I think it's important. I think if somebody is going to be eating something repeatedly, you want it to taste nice.
Kerry Diamond:
You did have to do a little switcheroo with the scallop, if I remember correctly.
Dorothy Barrick:
Yes, and that was, to be honest, thought out before because you would never serve seafood on set really, real seafood, because it's too much of a food risk. I saw these beautiful purple shells at Billingsgate, which is the big fish market here. You can only go at horrendous hours of the morning. And I had used pear before as a fake, like sashimi, because it's quite transparent, so I thought, oh, if I cut it and then put shaved grape and a little micro herb, it looks just like a scallop, and that's easy for the whole cast to shoot as a little scallop shooter.
Kerry Diamond:
People will realize this when they see the movie. You mentioned that about seafood, yet there's a huge crab scene in the movie. How did you deal with that?
Dorothy Barrick:
The crabs? Oh my gosh, there were so many crabs. First, it was important to get the right crabs because we don't have Dungeness crabs here in England. They're brown crabs, and it would have been really wrong. The Dungeness crab is such an iconic bright orange, gorgeous crab that I grew up with. And Pacific Seafood on the West coast, I think Portland, Haley, thank you, helped us to ship in loads of frozen crab, and then there was a whole defrosting ... yeah, there were a lot of crabs to deal with.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. You have your work cut out for you on these movies.
Dorothy Barrick:
Yes, for sure.
Kerry Diamond:
You also worked on “Saltburn.” You weren't the main home ec person, but you did fill in on one of the party scenes. Tell us about that scene, just everything you had to do to make it happen.
Dorothy Barrick:
So yes, I was not the main one. It was my friend, Juliet Baptiste Kennedy, but I stood up at that amazing house in Northamptonshire, just incredible, that set.
Kerry Diamond:
How do you make it happen?
Dorothy Barrick:
I brought a lot of stuff in my car. I was defrosting frozen lobsters in my bathtub, not edible. No one was eating those. But I also then ordered loads of seafood to meet me there, so it was fresh. And then I was also going down to Borough Market to get the specific spider crabs that you could only find at the one spot. So it was a lot of logistics and a lot of ice in the back of my car, and it was wild, but it was such a cool set.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I can't even imagine.
Dorothy Barrick:
Incredible.
Kerry Diamond:
That movie, if you haven't seen “Saltburn,” maybe don't watch it with your parents or younger people or children. Definitely, that is a wild movie, but everything in that movie seems so intentional, so I can imagine the food scenes, they wanted very specific things.
Dorothy Barrick:
Yes. I was fully briefed by Juliet, but then I think I was really allowed to play and do in some ways what I wanted on the base of their mood boards and imagery and whatnot. And you just knew while filming, this is something really special.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you get to observe Emerald Fennell working?
Dorothy Barrick:
I did. She's lovely. She could not have been lovelier with the whole crew, and it felt really intimate.
Kerry Diamond:
I can't wait to see her next movie. Speaking of amazing people to be around, also, we didn't even talk about this yet, but Olivia Colman and Benedict Cumberbatch, did you just lose your mind when you found out you got this gig?
Dorothy Barrick:
I did. I did. I was fully freaking out, for sure. They're both, to be honest, were really easy on set and really easy to feed and deal with.
Kerry Diamond:
I know they're both professionals and really at the top of their game, but they're so effortless to watch. When I heard the two of them were going to be in a movie together, I was like, oh, what a dream.
Dorothy Barrick:
Total dream.
Kerry Diamond:
Can you watch your movies when they finally come out in theaters or are streaming or are you one of those artists who are like, I can't see my work after it's done?
Dorothy Barrick:
Oh, I definitely watch it. Sometimes I'll just fast-forward to the food parts, but I did get to see “The Roses,” and I fully got a nice little screening and, yeah, I would love to see it again.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's great. There's a lot of food in it-
Dorothy Barrick:
There is.
Kerry Diamond:
... so you really couldn't fast-forward through that much because you would wind up missing something. Let's talk about movie food stylist rules. Are there some rules that just everybody who works in home ec or food stylist knows these are the rules or are there some rules that you've established for yourself?
Dorothy Barrick:
The number one rule is definitely always make way more than you think will ever be expected because often, if there's 10, 15 extras, what they call SAs here, who knows? They might be eating, or the main character might actually dig in and eat whatever you're serving over and over again, so you just have to be prepared.
Kerry Diamond:
And sometimes you're in a far-flung location, right? Weren't you cooking out of an Airstream somewhere in the middle of the U.K. for some of the shots?
Dorothy Barrick:
Yes. In Devon, we were in an Airstream. It was a fairly set-up Airstream, but behind set, we were making cakes at night in the Airbnb. My friend, Lou Cassidy, was there helping. We were foraging purple flowers during the day for the ... it was madness.
Kerry Diamond:
It's not like there's a Whole Foods or a Marks & Spencer nearby that you can just run to.
Dorothy Barrick:
No. There might be a Waitrose an hour away where you pick up the micro herbs that didn't arrive by courier or whatever, but you have to show up with everything you need or know exactly what's coming and have a backup plan.
Kerry Diamond:
And this goes back to the great Susan Spungen, who once said to me, one is none. She used the example of she sent an assistant out to get an apple for a shoot, and the assistant came back with one apple, and Susan said to her, one is none.
Dorothy Barrick:
Yes, exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
So you know exactly what she's talking about. All right. Tell us another rule. What's another rule you live by?
Dorothy Barrick:
Rule number two is definitely leave early, always be on time because you're part of that machine. If one crew member makes someone late, then the whole thing ... it's a massive production. So being on time and being ready exactly when they need to roll, that's definitely important.
Kerry Diamond:
That's such a good point. I've never thought about that because when the credits roll and you just see hundreds of names, everybody is so essential. If one person doesn't do their part in that whole big ecosystem, forget it.
Dorothy Barrick:
Forget it. Then you've got thousands and thousands of pounds on your back. Although speaking about credit, we often don't get credit.
Kerry Diamond:
Really, the home ec folks?
Dorothy Barrick:
The food stylists, home ec are often not credited like a lot of big ones. My mentors I've worked with, sometimes, are not credited, and I just want to say they should credit us.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. They absolutely should. Just for those of us who are super nosy and want to know those things, who do we need to talk to, Dorothy, the prime minister? What's the deal?
Dorothy Barrick:
I know. What's the deal? All the big execs, I think.
Kerry Diamond:
You don't just have a small kit. It's not like you're a makeup artist on a fashion shoot for a day and you show up with just your key stuff. Your kit is basically everything that you pack into your car. But what are two or three essentials that you are just lost without if you didn't have on set?
Dorothy Barrick:
I have my regular kit that I have packed and clean and ready to go at all times; a roll of knives, whisks, zesters, all those little tools in a roll. Then within those bags, then I'll have browning liquid, a liquid here that you make for a stew to make it more brown or you rub on a turkey to make it look glossier and golden, glycerin, toothpicks, longer stakes. You never know when you're going to do a fruit tower. You need plums in a piece of styrofoam somewhere, or wire, gardening wire, lots and lots of bits packed in a bag and separate containers. I always bring that, food coloring.
Kerry Diamond:
Lots of words to live by, Dorothy. You never know when you're going to have to do a fruit tower. I don't think I've ever said those words. People might have recognized that you do not have a British accent. You are American. How did you wind up in London?
Dorothy Barrick:
I moved here about 11 years ago with my ex-partner and my son, Henry, who's now 14, and stayed.
Kerry Diamond:
You were a fashion girly back in the day. You were a model. You were a fashion designer. You've had lots of lives, Dorothy.
Dorothy Barrick:
I have. I have. I left home at 16 to model, and that lasted until I was about 32, and then I went into accessories design.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us some of your favorite food films.
Dorothy Barrick:
Oh, favorite food films? Everything French, “Babette's Feast.” There's a French movie called “Délicieux.” Have you ever seen that?
Kerry Diamond:
I have not, but I'm going to look it up now.
Dorothy Barrick:
Oh, it's really very sweet. This guy loses his job for a big fancy French guy and opens a little restaurant in the countryside. It's just really pretty and sweet. And I love the recent, “A Taste of Things.”
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, they made that for food stylists.
Dorothy Barrick:
It was a food styling dream and just, I don't know, romantic and sweet.
Kerry Diamond:
That was a spectacular movie. What are some others you love?
Dorothy Barrick:
“The Bear” was great. I loved “Emily in Paris.” There were some fun food scenes. And to be in Paris with that, that would have been fun.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, it certainly helped that the boyfriend was a chef.
Dorothy Barrick:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
What advice do you have for someone who wants to break into food styling on movies and TV?
Dorothy Barrick:
Oh. Contact people, and if you meet people on set, ask to assist them. I still assist. That's how you learn. The only way to learn how to do this on film and TV is to do it and to probably make mistakes and learn from those. I met one of my mentors, Catherine Kunzig, on a show called “The Great,” and I think I asked her, can I assist you? And then she passed my name along to Lisa Heathcote and Katharine Tidy, and then all of these lovely mentoring ladies. I'm just like, can I work for you? Can I assist you? Don't be shy. Also, I remember DMing Christine Tobin. She's lovely. I can't wait to finally meet her in person because-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, she's the best.
Dorothy Barrick:
She has just been an absolute source of inspiration. And if something hasn't gone right, oh ... she has been great, lovely. So I think don't be shy.
Kerry Diamond:
And Christine, we should say, worked on “Julia,” the HBO show that we loved. We did the companion podcast for that. And she also was the food stylist on Greta Gerwig's “Little Women.”
Dorothy Barrick:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
I don't know if she announced yet what her next thing is, but it's pretty freaking big. Do you know what it is yet? Yeah.
Dorothy Barrick:
I know-
Kerry Diamond:
So I think it might be on her Instagram, but just in case, I don't want to get any of us in trouble.
Dorothy Barrick:
No, no, no, no.
Kerry Diamond:
You know what would be so much fun? You're a Bombesquad member, and I have to say, Dorothy, I'm so honored that you are a member. That's really, really awesome. But it would be so amazing to have you, Susan, and Christine do a panel together for one of the member meetings.
Dorothy Barrick:
Oh, I would love that.
Kerry Diamond:
That would be great because-
Dorothy Barrick:
I would love that.
Kerry Diamond:
... you three have such specific jobs. There aren't a lot of you.
Dorothy Barrick:
No, there are not. And even here in London, it's a niche little community. We all share jobs. We're all direct competitors, but we share and pass along jobs amongst each other.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, it's not like-
Dorothy Barrick:
It's so funny.
Kerry Diamond:
... there are a whole bunch of you, you can go to a pub one night and just bitch about your jobs. That's not really how it works. Okay, we have time for one more question. If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Dorothy Barrick:
I think it would have to be Jacques Pépin because he's just so cute and he also has a lifetime of experience. He lived through World War II. The French are extremely practical, weirdly. You think they're romantic and this, that, but I feel like I wake up and be like, let's go find something. He'd be like, no, it's not until midi that we find the leaves that come out or whatever. Plus, I could speak French. We could speak French. I don't know. I think Jacques Pépin.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, he's delightful, and he has a big birthday coming up, 90.
Dorothy Barrick:
90.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. He's a treasure. He's an international treasure. I was going to say national, but he's international.
Dorothy Barrick:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Dorothy, you are an international treasure too. Look at you. London by way of New Jersey. So proud of you. You really are the Bombe, and congratulations on “The Roses.” Everybody is going to be talking about it.
Dorothy Barrick:
Thank you so much, Kerry. This was really very cool and a long time coming.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you to Olivia Colman and Dorothy Barrick for joining me. Don't forget, “The Roses” opens this Friday. Be sure to follow Radio Cherry Bombe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. If you're already a follower, thank you. That means a lot. Check out the links in our show notes for our magazine, Jubilee tickets, and Cherry Bombe membership info. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Special thanks to Good Studio in Brooklyn. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Jenna Sadhu, and our talent guru is Londyn Crenshaw. Be sure to tune in this Monday on Labor Day for a special episode with the one and only, Molly Baz. Thanks for listening, everybody. You are the Bombe.