Roya Shariat Transcript
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Hi, everyone. You're listening to The Future Of Food Is You. A production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Abena Anim-Somuah, and each week I talk to emerging talents in the food world and they share what they're up to, as well as their dreams and predictions for what's ahead. As for me, I'm the founder of The Eden Place, a community that's all about gathering people intentionally around food. I love this new generation of chefs, bakers, and creatives making their way in the world of food, drink, media, and tech.
Today's guest is Roya Shariat. Roya is a cookbook author whose first book will be out this fall, and she's the senior manager of Social Impact and Brand Partnerships for Glossier. She co-wrote her debut book, Maman And Me: Recipes From Our Iranian American Family with her mother Gita Sadeh, who is a Maryland based chef and early childhood educator. I'm a huge fan of the TikToks that Roya records of her mom, who has the unique skill of knowing exactly how much food can fit into a storage container. On this episode, Roya and I chat about the process of writing her first cookbook, embracing her Iranian American heritage through food and building a social media audience with food content. Also, stick around for the very creative way that Roya got her job at Glossier. Hint, it involves bumping into the inspiring founder, Emily Weiss.
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Now, let's check in with today's guest. Roya, thank you so much for joining us on The Future Of Food Is You podcast.
Roya Shariat:
I'm so thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Amazing. Can you tell us a little bit about where you grew up and how food showed up in your life?
Roya Shariat:
Of course. I grew up in the DMV, D.C., Maryland, Virginia area, specifically Maryland in Silver Spring and in Potomac, and food showed up in my life from the get-go. My earliest memories revolved around food. We were the kind of family that came together twice a day, if not more, at the kitchen table for food. I didn't realize how amazing of a cook my mom was really, until I kept getting older and progressively more and more, I did a mommy and me cooking class when I was five, and that's when I started learning how to make American staples, which my mom didn't know either. We learned French toast, we learned pancakes, and then we started making those every single Sunday.
So started with some mommy and me goodies, a lot of Iranian food, a lot of communal meals, and I just loved food so much. I was the kind of precocious kid who'd go to a party and eat something and be like, the cheese in the cheesecake is fabulous.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That was me, all that Top Chef that you're watching.
Roya Shariat:
Oh, I was a Food Network-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Or that Barefoot Contessa, oh my gosh.
Roya Shariat:
Initially we didn't have cable, so it was a lot of PBS, Yan Can Cook, Nathalie Dupree, Julia Child, all of the classics.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, geez. Yeah.
Roya Shariat:
When we got Food Network, I called Gail Gand, who had a show about making desserts. I called into the hotline and talked to her about desserts while her show was on air. I wrote into the Washington Post about the recipe of Ants on a Log that I would make, and got published at seven.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay, writer. That's amazing. That was your first byline.
Roya Shariat:
That was my first byline and maybe the only time I'll be in the Post, but we'll see. Here's hoping.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Well, just going back a quick second. You talked about the American foods that you made, but what are traditional Iranian foods for our audience who are learning more about that cuisine?
Roya Shariat:
Of course. A lot of stews, a lot of rice. One of the hallmarks of that rice, which I'm sure we'll talk about later, is tahdig, that delicious crispy crust that all cooks strive to achieve. A lot of acidity, so you have limes and dried limes and lemons and herbs and a mix of flavors, and it's really a regional cuisine, which I don't think everyone realizes. So depending on where you are, you might have more fish. My mom's from the south of Iran. We have tamarin and chili and Indian inspired flavors that came across the spice route. It is just the most verdant, delicious, beautiful, resilient cuisine I can really think of.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I wish people could see how much you're lighting up in here, just talking about it. I want to talk a little bit about your mom, because I know you and her wrote the book together, and I wish she was here to join us, but maybe next time. She's here in this tea that Roya has made us, she made us this lovely tea. Can you tell our audience about this tea?
Roya Shariat:
Absolutely. My mom blends about five different teas together to make this delicious Iranian tea, ranging from an Earl gray to a tea blend with cardamom. The thing that we say cures all ailments is something called Nabat, which is rock sugar. This one has saffron in it. If you have period cramps, if you are heartbroken, if you're sad, have Choi with Nabat and you'll be good to go. And in the absence of my mom and her beautiful presence not being here, I brought her tea blend and Nabat so Abena and I could enjoy it together.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
No, I want this every day. This is incredible. But speaking about your mom, I would love to hear about her immigrant story if you're willing to share that with us.
Roya Shariat:
A hundred percent. I can't do it justice, but I'll try my best. She came to this country with my dad and my oldest sister in about 1985 after the Iranian revolution. Like many immigrants, had to start all over and start fresh, and she was a teacher in Iran. She became a stay-at-home mom for some time, and then, Farsi tutored and found gigs. My dad had to start all over as a doctor and pursue his education all over again, while eventually having three kids in total and hustling and trying to get to a better place.
I think her story of immigration is one of many immigrants, heartbreak and loss, losing your parents and not being able to go back to your homeland, not being connected to your family for decades of time and food was the through line that made her feel connected to that homeland, to that family, and also gave her the joy of being able to spread this to her children and make them feel connected, even though I was born here and there's quite a bit of distance between us.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Let's transition a bit into your journey of food and media. So you started sharing TikTok videos of your mom at home. How did these come about?
Roya Shariat:
March 13th, 2020, the world is about to come to a screeching halt, and it's also almost Iranian new year, Nowruz, and my plan was to go home to Maryland and spend that time with my family. I packed a light bag thinking I'll be here for two weeks, and at a certain point I was like, “Okay, I think I got to stick it around a bit longer.” And during that time, I would just watch my mom in the kitchen, marvel at her. One of the things that stood out to me was her ability to fit leftovers in the perfect sized container every freaking time. There was some kind of mental calculus going on that I could not fathom.
And I started recording these TikToks of her doing it. Really scrappy, really basic, none of us were prepared. I didn't think anything would catch on. For me, it was, let me just remember this special time I have with my family that I'm never going to get back. At this age in my life, at my big age, I'll take what I can get. And by maybe the 10th or so video, it was the most basic chicken stew, that one went viral. And the follower count started going up, hundreds of thousands of views. Okay, I've got a thousand followers, what's that? It jumped to 10K, it jumped to millions of views, people are amazed at this woman calling her the CEO of spatial awareness. Our mom.
I just kept going. The following just kept increasing, and she has this amazing community of hundreds of thousands of people who are stands of hers and who-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And they're looking forward to her videos.
Roya Shariat:
Yeah, yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. No, I mean, watching them, I was always like, "Will she, won't she?" There was this one she had with a chickpea stew, and there was probably a small portion, and I was like, "She's not going to do it." And she did it and she shut that thing down. I was like-
Roya Shariat:
We had to start shutting the lid because they were conspiracy theorists that were saying... You could not close that lid, and now we make a point to close it and show it off.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And you're like, "This is real. This is no CGI [computer generated imagery], no AI involved." That's so funny. So what came after the videos then, and after just showing that mom can fit her amazing food into these type of work containers?
Roya Shariat:
The videos expanded to food and cooking and more fun, immigrant mom things, like how they cut food without a cutting board and just chop it in the air with their hands with the smallest pairing knife. I am mincing garlic in the air. It's unbelievable.
The videos were cool because they gave me the confidence I needed to pursue food on the side more. I didn't think that I had a voice. I didn't think there was space for me. I think someone coming from a non-traditional background, feeling like there was no seat for me at the table, and I always wanted to write this cookbook probably since I was 15 years old, so half of my life at this point. This inspired me to start an Instagram called Maman and Me, which again, since, God, for at least 10 years, that name's been in my head. Let's document the food. Let's document the cooking. Let's talk about our journey together. Let's talk about the weird hacks and ingredient substitutions we make.
Grew a following there, while growing the following on TikTok, started writing some recipes on the side, and then slowly started working towards a book proposal. But I think the videos and the following gave me the confidence and empowered me to pursue food in a more serious way.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
This is not your only project, because you also have your newsletter called Consumed.
Roya Shariat:
Yes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What's that all about?
Roya Shariat:
It's the things I'm consuming, whether they're food or news or books or things that are consuming me, and just floating around in my brain, whether that's 90 CD compilations with Celine Dion and Luther Vandross, that taught me, yeah, this piece of music.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's my music.
Roya Shariat:
Love it. And it's just a really fun way for me to find my voice and refine my voice, even before I was working on the cookbook proposal, and I've seen it through, I do Friday Fives roundups of joyful, cathartic content ranging from weird memes on the internet to music that will make you happy. And it brings me a lot of joy to write it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How do you manage to maintain audiences and build community across all these different platforms? You're on TikTok, you're on Substack, you're on Instagram.
Roya Shariat:
It is so hard and I constantly... This is a bigger theme in my life. I feel like I'm juggling so many balls and I constantly feel like one is dropping or one is not good enough, so I might be neglecting the TikTok, but I'm doing really well on Substack, or I'm killing it on Instagram, but something else is falling through. I have not figured out the right balance, but I think, for me, it's just important to keep trying and keep putting myself out there and knowing that I will find cool people and amazing people like you-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, you're so kind. Thank you
Roya Shariat:
... who... We'll connect and vibe over food or music or any of those things.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back.
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Your love of food is not your full-time job. You work at, at least personally for me, one of the most innovative beauty companies, Glossier. Can you tell us a little bit about your role and how you got the job, because I know you have a fun story there?
Roya Shariat:
I do have a fun story. My role is expansive. I lead social impact brand partnerships and do a bit of communications there. Which is really three different jobs and no two days look the same. I got there in a very unconventional way. I wanted to work there. There was no kind of job in the impact space, which is where I've always found myself to be and where what I'm most passionate about.
One morning, I was putting on Cloud Paint, their blush, thinking that I wanted to work there so badly, went on the jobs page, saw nothing. Three hours later, I step outside of where I was working before Chobani, the yogurt company, and Emily Weiss, the founder and CEO, is standing right there. And something came over me and I said, "I need to talk to her." So I walked up to her, I told her what products I was wearing. She said I looked amazing. I asked her, I said, "Hey, I'm a really passionate consumer. What are you doing to give back?" She said, "Honestly, we're not doing much. I wish we did more." And I said, "If you want to do more, you should hire me."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay now.
Roya Shariat:
And she raised her eyebrow at me, asked me a bunch of questions, basically interviewed me on the street, and I asked for a selfie and her email thinking, if nothing else, I'll remember that I had the gall to ask her for a job and I hustled.
I sent her an email that day for five ideas for what the company should do, not sure if there's a fit for me, but I'd be honored to contribute in some way, thinking best case scenario, she'll maybe ask for my opinion on something. Worst case, they say no, and people say no all the time.
She gets back to me a few days later asking me to meet her and her team in her office next week. I'm assuming this is an interview, so I show up with a deck, five slides printed out in glossy font, branded, in a ping pouch, in a Glossier bag. This is who I am, slide one. This is why this work is important, slide two with data points and stats. This is why you should invest in it now, and this is how we're going to do it and make it reflect your values. Had the most intense job interview of my life. More interviews ensue after that, and they created a social impact job for me. And so I got to build and lead this function from the ground up, from zero to a lot more stuff now.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's incredible. I know we're a food podcast, but I feel like Glossier has just done so much in terms of social media and community and impact, and that's really beautiful.
Roya Shariat:
Thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And you've been there how many years now?
Roya Shariat:
A little over four years now. It's been quite the journey, but I always tell that story because if the dream job doesn't exist, you can create it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You can make it. I mean, I feel like so many people listening to the podcast are trying to figure that out with food. It's like, do I start a company? Do I join a restaurant? Do I start consulting?
Roya Shariat:
No decision is the wrong decision too. Anything will get you one step closer.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. That's so powerful. With such an important and impactful job, how do you think about balancing the food stuff and the beauty stuff? And how are you thinking about managing all these different side hustles, and that are so integrated into the passions that you really care about?
Roya Shariat:
I think the passion piece certainly helps. I think if I wasn't passionate about beauty, impact or food, I wouldn't be able to be juggling all of these things. I'd say again, I'm not the best at balancing it. In that, I have not worked out in the way that I'd like to, or I've not meditated in the way that I should. Something is falling through, and it's usually me taking good care of myself and resting, but I'm pursuing these things and hustling because they energize me enough to keep me going. So balance is tough. I work a lot and I don't rest enough, but I also feel like I'm at a point in my life where I have the luxury of doing that and the opportunity to do that. So let me just lean into it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Take it in stride.
Roya Shariat:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. That's really beautiful. Well, I want to talk about this project in depth. I know that's why we're here. The cookbook is called Maman and Me: Recipes from our Iranian American Family that you wrote with your mother, Gita Sadeh. And this book is coming out on October 24th. I'm so hyped to get my copy.
Roya Shariat:
Can't wait to give it to you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What inspired you to write a cookbook to honor your mother?
Roya Shariat:
A lot of different emotions. It's loaded. There was the joy and exuberance and just the pure beauty of her cooking. The fact that my mom would cater a wedding out of her home kitchen, just something she did on the side, casually. She would have the best dinner parties. I'd go over to other people's houses, I'd realize, oh, this food is not great. My mom is such a good cook. Going off to college, cooking for myself, realizing, oh my God, my belly is empty and so is my heart and that connection between the two. And ironically, the word in Farsi for heart and stomach is the same word.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What is it?
Roya Shariat:
Del.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Del.
Roya Shariat:
Which is, I think, there's nothing more beautiful that shows how much food is part of our love and life and culture. They're so connected. So the idea for the cookbook partially came by of wanting to preserve my mom's recipes, wanting to share them with the world, and wanting to really just have something, a physical, tangible artifact about our culture and Iranian American cuisine and how it's different than just traditional back home.
On top of that, there's a bit of a emo, sadder element of fear and anticipatory grief and loss. I think about losing my parents a lot, because I have anxiety, and the one thing, it scares me, it keeps me up at night, and the one thing that I think about in addition to that is losing the food. And if I don't have that, if I don't have my parents, one, what am I? Who am I? What else matters? If I don't have that food, how will I ever be connected to my homeland? How will I ever get comfort, grounding, healing, like with this tea? I just really feel this personal need to hold onto that and to share it with others. And when I talk to other third culture kids, it all feels very similar. This is a specific cultural milieu I'm focusing on, but I'm sure you've experienced that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, yeah, definitely. Most immigrant cultures don't really use recipes, yet you're writing a whole cookbook.
Roya Shariat:
Can you imagine?
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So how did you see recipe development as a form of preserving your family's culture? I'm so curious and interested in that.
Roya Shariat:
It is wild how many generations have gone by without a single measuring spoon, cup, anything,
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And yet the food is hitting.
Roya Shariat:
It's always hitting, and the proportions are always right, and it's always balanced. Part of it is the intuition that you gain with years of experience in cooking and tasting as you're cooking, which is, I think, underrated or undervalued sometimes of constantly getting in there, having your tasting spoon, thinking, okay, I need a little bit of lemon juice. Okay, this needs actually a little bit of heat, it's not salty enough, et cetera. That's part of it. Two, it was a lot of hard work and negotiation with my mom and literally handing her a tablespoon and saying, "You need to use this."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
She's like, "What is this?"
Roya Shariat:
Yeah. She's like, "I pour with my heart," and she's pouring with her hand. That was the hardest part. That definitely kept me up at night, writing the cookbook of just what are the proportions, what are the techniques? What are the approximate minutes and times? And putting precision on everything where there was no precision was so, so hard. And I still think even doing that, you need to pour a little bit with your heart. You need to taste it as you cook it. The recipes are wonderful, but you need to put your own spin on it and really experience it for yourself to get to a place where you love it and it feels perfect to you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. No, I think that's so beautiful. I'm curious because I know writing a cookbook is not an easy feat, even for experienced chefs and bakers. So how did you think about formatting it together with little to no experience?
Roya Shariat:
I did a virtual cookbook proposal writing class with Julia Turshen. She offers them periodically.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, she's amazing.
Roya Shariat:
She is really cool. And it was a class on Zoom with about, I want to say 50 other women, all sorts of different backgrounds. Some people just were curious, others had the idea. I was fully like, Maman and Me is an Iranian American cookbook. It didn't exist, but I typed it into chat, into existence. She went through, oh my goodness, it was three plus hours. We definitely went over time. She follows up with a huge Google Doc guide of, this is what to include. You have to include comp, comparative titles. You should include professional photos, and at least five to eight recipes. And that helped me get the structure I needed. And a cookbook proposal is almost like a mini cookbook. You're writing an introduction, you're writing who the audience is, you're writing why you're doing this, what sets it apart or what it has in common with other books.
And so that process, I had probably three dozen recipes scrappily written down in a Google Doc with no head notes, no details. I was able to transform that into a book proposal and a reason for being. And then from there was able to organize a cohesive cookbook beyond that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What was the process of shopping it around and getting signed to a publisher? And then did you use an agent in this process as well?
Roya Shariat:
I did not.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow.
Roya Shariat:
Solo dolo.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Look at you go.
Roya Shariat:
Again, like the connection to Glossier, it just helps to put yourself out there. And I was working on this proposal following the Juliet Turshen class. I put something in my Instagram story saying, "Hey, does anybody know any cookbook editors, commissioning editors, publishers, or even agents? I'm working on my cookbook proposal." Posted it away. Friends started pouring in with names, contacts, and one old colleague, Maryanne, who's forever a friend, 20 years ago, she worked with someone who is now commissioning editor at PA Press. And she said, "Are you serious about this? Because my good friend Holly could be a good fit. Send me some things along." I sent her the TikTok. I sent her a blurb on the book, didn't know where it would go. Holly, I think like many editors and commissioners, are getting a ton of info.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Everyone's writing a cookbook these days.
Roya Shariat:
Everyone's writing a cookbook, everyone wants to write a cookbook. But thankfully, she saw my writing and she saw the TikTok and understood, oh, there's something going on here. This person is putting in a lot of work. They're serious. She took a call with me and she made me accountable. She was like, "I want to see your proposal by mid-December, and I want to be the first person to see it, if you will let me."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow. There You go.
Roya Shariat:
And again, a little thing that gave me the confidence to get those across the finish line and send it over to her. And by the end of that year, I had the verbal offer, and then we worked through contract. So it was a weird process, but it all happened through a friend of a friend and a connection and someone willing to take a chance on me, in the same way that Emily was at Glossier. Seeing your hustle, seeing your spirit, seeing your hard work, and knowing that something good would ensue out of it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I think that's really beautiful and it's just so powerful how people are able to become really successful by just doing the unconventional. But I want to get into the food, so I'm really curious to hear what were three or four recipes that you were developing that you're like, when this book is out, these are going to be the stars of the show.
Roya Shariat:
I don't know if this is the star of the show, but I'm proud that this recipe is in the book. One is for chips and dip, which we call chips al maaz, afterschool snack, you take thick yogurt, you put some mayo or sour cream in it, you put some Italian seasoning in it, salt, pepper, and you dip, ideally, a ridged, a Ruffles potato chip of sorts.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Perfect dipping accessory.
Roya Shariat:
It is the simplest, most basic comfort food in Iranian cookbooks to date. It's a lot of the traditional, beautiful, layered, multifaceted stews and pilafs, which are all in this cookbook. But this is the homegrown thing, and if I am feeling down, I will make that chips and dip. And I'm excited for other people to experience that for the first time and to just associate this with Iranian cuisine. Another dish that I think will be a hit is the samosas that we make with wonton wrappers.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow. What a beautiful, cross-cultural balance.
Roya Shariat:
We went to H Mart and tried egg roll rappers, wonton rappers. We fried every single thing. We thought, oh my God, these wonton rappers are exactly like samosas. This is perfect, and we don't have to make the dough ourselves and we save ourselves the work. How fabulous? And they have this gorgeous ground beef and cilantro filling and this tamarind dipping sauce.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How was it working with your mom on the cookbook? I'm really curious, because I feel like mother-daughter relationships are complicated, as close as you are to... Ask anyone who's close to their mom, they're complicated. So I'm really curious to see what skills you brought to the table to compliment each other as you were working on this.
Roya Shariat:
It was a wild ride. You nailed it. Mother-daughter relationships are complicated. I'm incredibly close to my mom, ride or die relationship. I love that woman with every fiber of my being, but it got hard. Some of the hard things were negotiating about measurements, tablespoons. Other things were about plating and styling the food. She has a very strong point of view, and you'll see in this book, every plate, every tablecloth, every setting, every utensil accessory is her own collection. We didn't borrow anything.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So you did the shoot at home then?
Roya Shariat:
We did the shoot at home. We worked with this amazing photographer, Farrah Skeiky, and she was incredible, but we were prop styling, food styling. We were hustling ourselves.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You're just learning all this stuff as you go.
Roya Shariat:
On the go. I was looking at videos, I was looking at other cookbooks, getting inspiration. My mom and I would figure things out. And for example, for a stew, she'd be like, "We have to have rice and tahdig on the side." I'm like, "But the recipe's just for the stew." "It doesn't matter. This is how it's served. This is how it's eaten. I am not going to have a bowl of ghormeh sabzi," kidney vegan and herb stew, "by itself."
We'd have these moments of contention. And I'd say, "You know what? You're absolutely right. I'm going to let you rock. I don't know how the publisher's going to feel about this." But this is how it's served and this is how it's eaten, so it should be portrayed as such.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So it seems like you are more of the, I would say, the right brain that was like, let's be rational, let's think about this. And she's more of the creative - you're letting her flow in her spirit.
Roya Shariat:
A hundred percent. I have the spreadsheet, I have the dates. We shot 10 recipes a day every weekend in July, every Friday and Saturday. Truly. I stayed in Maryland for the whole month and then took Fridays off, and Fridays and Saturdays, 20 recipes every freaking weekend. 80 total, and then 78 made it to the cookbook. It was nuts. Some people like to condense it and do Monday through Saturday, we're going to shoot and do it all. We spaced it out, but it was the most laborious, intense thing, but it was also so much joy.
So a lot of negotiation, conflict management, project management, and then also having to manage the photographer and make sure she felt good about the shoot, and my mom felt good about the plating and the lighting was right, and we felt like this captured the essence and mood and spirit of the dish. That was a lot. The writing was on me. And it was oral transcription, and thankfully my mom has a great recall of these recipes and she's like, "Okay, roughly two cups of rice here, a couple of lentils here."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Because she's been cooking them a lot.
Roya Shariat:
It's in her bones. It's fine that there wasn't a written history here because she's got it all up here and I'm putting it down and then we're testing it and trying it to make sure it works.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I think you're about to pioneer a very beautiful genre of books. I think Priya Krishna did this, right, with her book, Indian-Ish.
Roya Shariat:
A hundred percent.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
This beautiful combination of mother, daughter, father, son, father, daughter, parent, child, understanding their relationship as Indian American, Iranian American, whatever have you.
Roya Shariat:
Where we came from and where we are now, really. And I felt like that was what was missing. Indian-Ish was one of the comps in my cookbook proposal.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
There you go.
Roya Shariat:
She set the tone for this genre, and here I am bringing it to a new country, a new region. What I felt was missing was the modern, this is how we cook now. This is not how we did it in the old country. We're going to put a tortilla at the bottom of the pan and make tortilla tahdig because we can do that and it works just the same. We're going to make spaghetti with tahdig, which is comfort food, but hasn't been in the sphere of Iranian culinary excellence to date.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I always make this joke that every culture has a dumpling, every culture has a soup.
Roya Shariat:
A hundred percent.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Every culture has a stew. The fact that you're going to H Mart to get supplies, whereas... We're reading about Crying in H Mart being a religious experience for someone else. It's just... Yes.
Roya Shariat:
Reading that essay, I cried my freaking eyes out. Sent it to my mom and she started crying. And I said, "I don't know what I would do if I was at an H Mart or a Patel Brothers...
Abena Anim-Somuah:
There we go.
Roya Shariat:
... without you." And we just sat there and we cried.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so beautiful, man. Wow. I want to talk about, I would say, probably the prolific recipe for Iranian cooking, which is tahdig. What is tahdig, Roya?
Roya Shariat:
Tahdig literally translates to "tal ha dig," bottom of the pot. And it is the crispy rice crust that forms around our cooking. In different cultures, some call it con-con, pagao. Different countries have it, and in some it is a delicacy, and in others it's like-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Scraps. In jollof, we have it. So it's called Kanto, but that was what my brothers would fight for at the bottom of the pot. Yeah. Something about the bottom of the pot.
Roya Shariat:
Something about the bottom of the pot, which is a cookbook by Naz Deravian actually.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes.
Roya Shariat:
So it's this gorgeous culinary alchemy that happens when the rice caramelizes with oil and steams just right. And it is crispy, it is crunchy. You put it on the side of your plate and you top the juices of the stew on it. If you want it to get a little bit softer, but still retain that crunch, eat it on its own. And then there's tortilla tahdig, there's potato tahdig, you can have cabbage tahdig, lettuce tahdig. My mom made buffalo wing tahdig once, which was incredibly delicious and unhinged.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
But I think what's really, I guess, alluring about tahdig is you have to do the flip. So basically you have to flip it over. I love seeing that. There's one that you have of your mom where she has this, probably like-
Roya Shariat:
It's huge.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
... 12 inch platter and she's flipping it.
Roya Shariat:
A 16-cup rice cooker and she has to drop it-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
She puts it on her head.
Roya Shariat:
... on her head to catch the weight. I know exactly the one you're talking about.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And then she just slips it down. I'm like, if that was me, that would be all over the floor.
Roya Shariat:
It takes one, incredible upper body strength, core strength, but also confidence and conviction because-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That it's done.
Roya Shariat:
That it's done. If you hesitate, you're not going to have a great flip. You just have to go with God and just flip it and hope for the best and hope that it's not stuck. And she reveals that gorgeous crust, the ASMR sound of cutting into it, oh my goodness.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And then she's putting the jewel... The little... The herbs and the pomegranates on top. That's amazing. So how did you try and translate this recipe to make it easy for people who are cooking through the book?
Roya Shariat:
You'll see in the book that there is basically an intro chapter before we even get to the tahdig recipe of technique, story, insights. Here's what you should do roughly. Here's the process. We're going to walk you through it before you actually get to measurements and real tactics. So you start by washing your rice thoroughly. You soak your rice, you par boil it, you put it in boiling water, you want it to dance for a couple of minutes until the center is still undercooked, but the outside is soft. Rinse with cold water and drain to stop the cooking process. Then put your oil down in a pan. Neutral oil is, I think, ideal here. If you're doing rice tahdig, you can go ahead. If you're doing potato tahdig, you're going to drop the potatoes in there, fry them on both sides, tortilla fry them on both sides. Drop the rice in, heap it up like a mountain using a wooden spoon. Make a few holes in the bottom of the pot. So let's say four holes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
For the steam, yeah.
Roya Shariat:
For the steam. And then a mixture of water and oil goes into those holes, or butter, if you'd like, if you're into that, which is a shout out to Kerrygold sponsoring the podcast.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
There we go. Kerrygold, we're going to make a butter tahdig, if you're listening.
Roya Shariat:
Oh, I love your product. Anyway. Make the holes, you pour your oil or Kerrygold butter mixture into the bottom, and then you make a Damkoni, which is a steamer. You cover your lid with either paper towels, wraps-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Like a cheesecloth.
Roya Shariat:
Exactly. I put just a straight-up kitchen towel, wrap up the lid because you don't want condensation to drip onto your rice and ruin your tahdig crust, and you let that rice steam for about 30 to 40 minutes. My mom says she can hear the tahdig, and so I've been trying to lean into that, literally leaning into my pot, hearing the crispy crusty sounds.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
ASMR.
Roya Shariat:
Shaking the pot a little. I'm thinking, okay, it's got some lift. And then you have the moment of truth, which is the flip.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's make or break. You can't go back too.
Roya Shariat:
Literally, make it or break it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow. Why has this been the recipe that you think that has become the prolific Iranian recipe? Do you think it's just the story behind it, just the way that it's prepared? I just think it's just so fascinating when cultures have very distinct foods, that it's like no matter where anyone is from in that country, despite ethnic or racial backgrounds, they're still able to unite under this particular dish.
Roya Shariat:
I think there are probably a couple different reasons. One, we need rice for every single stew. So rice is a must. The crunchy crust and the different variations you can make on it are just a delight and a treat and surprises people. The fact that it is somewhat laborious and it's not an easy process, I feel like people respect tahdig for that reason.
And then I'd say in the past, let's say three to five years, the advent of social media and video content, showing the process, the flip, that sound of the crunch, the tahdig TikTok videos I make very quickly go viral. And I think the tahdig hashtag on TikTok maybe has over a billion views. So it is a sensation, and I think like many other things, like dalgona coffee or something like that, it is something that people on social have latched onto and are very curious about. And people ask, "Is it sweet? Is it savory?" People in the Philippines are like, "My mom would hit me with a slipper if we made this," because tahdig is frowned upon in certain parts of-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, because you don't want to burn rice.
Roya Shariat:
You don't want to burn rice. And I think because of all these different views and people don't necessarily expect rice to be crispy like this, it just surprises and delights people. And it's different.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You mentioned that your book is Iranian American. Why did you think it was important to define it that way, as opposed to just Iranian or just American?
Roya Shariat:
I think, partially being a third culture kid, feeling like I'm not Iranian enough for the Iranians back home in Iran, I'm not American enough for the Americans here, I occupy this strange third hyphenated space. And with our cooking, with that chips and dip, with the hotdog and egg scramble, with the samosa wrappers, with the innovations, with the ranch dressing and saffron salmon we have, all sorts of recipes and tactics and techniques that came about, settling in this country and realizing what worked for us, even if it wasn't the OG in the original way it was always done.
And the beautiful thing about food is it's constantly evolving. So Maman and Me would look very different 10 years from now, and 50 years from now, and could be an entirely different book at that point. I think that occupying the third space, realizing that our recipes have changed, our techniques have changed, and we aren't talking enough about what's happening here and now in our food, we're referencing something that was done a hundred years ago or 20 years ago, there's no reason not to embrace both of those things. I think they can both exist. So I just wanted it to feel rooted in this experience and rooted through the lens of someone who is aspiring to be as great of a cook as their mom and aspiring to be connected to their culture through food and curing my home sickness through food.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And how do you want people to feel when they get a copy of the book as they're cooking through it? Was that something you thought about as you were putting the process together?
Roya Shariat:
I want them to feel so much love and warmth and joy, and even if you didn't have an amazing relationship with your mom or with your parents, I want you to feel like somebody's mama is rooting for you in the kitchen. And they're here with you and their spirit is guiding you as you grind saffron for the first time, or try to make your first tahdig. I want it to feel like a warm hug in food form.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's amazing. Well, we are big manifestors on this podcast. We've already manifested butter, so I would love to hear, who are your dream recipients? Who do you want to get a copy of Maman and Me?
Roya Shariat:
There are so many people I want to give this book to. I think Ina Garten would be one of them because I think of my mom as the Iranian Ina, just casually entertaining. And I think of my dad as Jeffrey of sorts, where he's in the background of the TikToks doing silly stuff, but also he's like an accomplished pediatrician and professor. And Jeffrey's the dean of the Yale School of Management.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. And he's her biggest fan.
Roya Shariat:
Exactly.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Attracts, yeah.
Roya Shariat:
So Ina for that reason. I think, goodness, there's so many and I have my dream of... Samin Nosrat, because I think she-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
She's everything.
Roya Shariat:
She is everything and more. The way that she has talked about her experience as an Iranian American. She's talked about grief. And the way that she's come up on the scene, and I so respect and admire that, she's talked about tahdig, she's talked about sabzi polo mohi, all sorts of Iranian dishes, but she also hasn't made that her niche. She is so much more than that. And I think seeing her succeed also made me feel like there is a place for me in food. So I would love to share this with her. And then here's a wild card, I mean, we're talking manifesting both the book, but beyond the book, Guy Fieri, because
Abena Anim-Somuah:
King. Flavor Town. I love him, I'm sorry.
Roya Shariat:
Nothing but respect for my president, Guy Fieri.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Literally, it's the flaming hair for me. Yeah.
Roya Shariat:
It's the Oakleys. I love what he has done with Diners, Drive-Ins, and Dives. I think he can be an easy person to make fun of, but all he's doing is going around highlighting these incredible small businesses, and he's never reacted poorly to anybody's cooking, and he's so enthusiastic and supportive. So partially, it's because I love him, but two, I think a dream of mine would be to be the Guy Fieri going to immigrant mom's kitchens and watching them cook and learning their signature recipe and hearing their story of coming to this journey. I'm manifesting a future TV series, travel log documentary, and we're not going to America's best diners, drive-ins, and dives, we're going to America's best chefs that you've never met and you've never heard of.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Honestly, I'm someone that manifests TV shows and videos, and this is one of them. I was watching a lot of Pasta Grannies during the pandemic-
Roya Shariat:
Oh my. Yes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I feel like the Italian Nona has been certified. But again, every culture has a grandma who spends all her time cooking in the kitchen and just and just has all these recipes that are somewhat ingrained in her head. Well, it'll happen.
Roya Shariat:
A hundred percent.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
We can be cohosts.
Roya Shariat:
Please join me and then we'll talk through our other show ideas.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, we have so many. Okay, so we're about to do our fun Future Of Food Is You tradition, our Future Flash Fives. Are you excited, Roya?
Roya Shariat:
I'm nervous.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's going to be fun.
Roya Shariat:
Let's go.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay, let's get into it. The future of cookbooks?
Roya Shariat:
Multi-hyphenated.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of beauty?
Roya Shariat:
Inclusive.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of gatherings?
Roya Shariat:
Expansive.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of social media?
Roya Shariat:
Weird.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of tahdig?
Roya Shariat:
Crispy.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Roya, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. If we want to keep continuing to support you and follow you, where are the best places to find you?
Roya Shariat:
Best places to start would be Roya Shariat on Instagram and TikTok, Maman and Me on Instagram as well. And you can subscribe to my newsletter through there and pre-order the book, please.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes, of course. Thanks so much for coming on.
Roya Shariat:
Thanks for having me.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Before we go, our guest is going to leave a voicemail at the Future Of Food mailbox, just talking to themselves 10 years from now. You have reached the future of food as you mailbox. Please leave your message after the beep.
Roya Shariat:
Hey, girl. It is 30-year-old Roya coming at you in 2023. You are recording the Cherry Bombe Future Food Podcast, which is so freaking amazing. I hope you are proud of yourself, and I hope you've figured out some semblance of work-life balance. I hope you're meditating. I hope you're cooking a lot. I hope you're just as close with your family and your friends as you are now. I hope you're spending your time between London, New York, and LA maybe somewhere else. I sincerely hope that you got that TV show, at least one of them, the Guy Fieri of immigrant moms in their kitchens. I hope you're still not drinking coffee because 10 years ago, as a 20-year-old Roya, you do not drink coffee. You don't need it now. You won't need it then. I still don't need it now, so you better not need it at 40.
And I hope you remain humble, grateful and grounded in impact, and always trying to give back to everyone around you and to your community. I hope you never lose that gratitude and that hustle and that drive and that spirit, and I can't wait to see what you do. I'm so proud of you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's it for today's show. Do you know someone who you think is the future of food? Tell us about them. Nominate them at the link in our show notes, or leave us a rating and review and tell me about them in the review. I can't wait to read more about them. Thanks to Kerrygold and Walmart for supporting the show. The Future Of Food Is You, is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Thanks to the team at CityVox Studios, executive producers Kerry Diamond and Catherine Baker and associate producer Jenna Sadhu. Catch you on the future flip.