Sally McKenney Transcript
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi, peeps. You're listening to She's My Cherry Pie, the baking podcast from The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Jessie Sheehan. I'm a baker, recipe developer, and author of four baking books, including “Salty, Cheesy, Herby Crispy Snackable Bakes.” On each episode, I hang out with the sweetest bakers around and take a deep dive into their signature bakes.
Today's guest is Sally McKenney, the beloved baker and blogger behind Sally's Baking, aka Sally's Baking Addiction. Sally launched her blog back in 2011 to share her love of baking with friends and family, and it's since grown into a trusted go-to for home bakers everywhere, including me. With more than 1200 tested recipes, step-by-step tutorials, and expert tips, Sally has built one of the most reliable baking resources on the internet. She's also the author of four cookbooks, including her latest, “Sally's Baking 101: Foolproof Recipes from Easy to Advanced.” It's the ultimate guide for bakers of all levels, packed with 101 sweet and savory recipes and plenty of pro-tips for getting the best results. Sally has been on the show before. Last time we dove into cinnamon rolls. Today, she's back to talk about her classic cheesecake recipe from her new book, and she and I discussed some of the fantastic baking tips that are sprinkled throughout it, including how she shapes her chocolate chip cookies and how to achieve a perfect crinkly-topped brownie every time. I loved chatting with Sally. So stay tuned for our chat. And remember, you can find today's recipe at cherrybombe.com.
Today's episode is presented by California Prunes. If you're a longtime listener, you know I'm a longtime fan of California Prunes. They're good for your bones, your gut, and even your heart. But most importantly, they're just a good snack, and I love a good snack. They're in my cabinet right now because they satisfy my sweet tooth at a moment's notice. Of course, I also love baking with them. They have such a complex flavor that gets even deeper when paired with chocolate, warm spices, or nuts. Some of my favorite recipes are my famously delicious cream scones with chopped prunes, my sticky toffee pudding with prunes, and I've even added prunes to my chocolate banana bread. Each recipe has 100% been better for it, but if you don't believe me, you can try all of these recipes for yourself at my website, jessiesheehanbakes.com. My big tip is that anything you'd bake with dried fruit, from oatmeal cookies to granola scones and muffins, is a prune moment. You can use them whole because they're so nice and juicy, or chop them up to spread the joy. They also help you hit some of your health goals. And if I can do that with a cookie, I'm happy. Prunes contain dietary fiber and other nutrients to support good gut health, potassium to support heart health and vitamin K, copper, and antioxidants to support healthy bones. There's a reason they've been on grocery store shelves since the 1800s. For more recipes and info, check out the California Prunes website at californiaprunes.org. That's californiaprunes.org.
Peeps, guess who is on the cover of Cherry Bombe's Italy issue? It's Chef Missy Robbins of Lilia, Misi, and MISIPASTA in New York City and Chef Nancy Silverton of Osteria Mozza, Chi Spacca, and more in Los Angeles. Yes, we have two covers. We couldn't be more excited to have these two iconic chefs grace the cover. Their careers have focused on bringing the best of Italian cooking to the U.S. The entire issue is about la dolce vita with delicious recipes, beautiful photography, and stories that will transport you straight to the trattorias, bakeries, and gelato stands. The Italy issue is out now. Head to cherrybombe.com or click the link in our show notes to order your copy.
Let's chat with today's guest.
Sally, so excited to have you on She's My Cherry Pie again and to talk cheesecake with you and so much more.
Sally McKenney:
Jessie, thank you so much. I am so happy to be here.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yay. So growing up, you spent hours watching your mother and your grandmother baking in the kitchen. Can you share an early baking or sweet memory, whether it be an actual memory of making something or just an early baked good or sweet eating memory from one of those many hours you spent with your grandmother-in-law?
Sally McKenney:
Yes, of course. So one that sticks out to me, my grandmother had these beautiful cherry trees in her big garden and expansive yard. We would always pick cherries together and then she would always make something from scratch and we'd go visit her, my sisters and I and my parents. And one thing she was really known for is cherry pie, and she would always just not even follow a recipe. Grandma just always knew what to do, like how I feel like all those memorable moments are in the kitchen with a grandparent. And it was just always this most delicious cherry pie. It was gooey, it was fresh, it wasn't too sweet, not too tart. And I would help her pit the cherries. There was no fancy cherry pitter or anything. It was just doing it right from scratch. And I just have these core memories of every summer visiting her, making cherry pie with those fresh cherries, and there is just nothing like that flavor and that taste in that memory.
Jessie Sheehan:
Well, funnily enough, some of my questions were about your grandmother's cherry pie, so I'm so glad you brought it up because you described your grandmother as this hardworking soul with this big infectious laugh. And you said something which I just was so struck by, you said every time she made her cherry pie it changed because half the recipe was in her head and half was on a note card. So I had two questions. First of all, I adore sour cherries and I thought it was interesting that you not only call for them for recipes in the book, but I think that was the tree, your grandmother's was that?
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
So I had a question. First question, do you ever use regular cherries or did she? And second question, can you, from your sense, taste memory, tell us about some of the differences in those pies? I thought that was so interesting, this idea that if you don't write it down, sometimes it's just so memorized, it doesn't matter. But that if you don't write it down, it might be different every time.
Sally McKenney:
Yes, that's true. So yes, she had tart cherries, tart cherry trees, sour cherries. She lived in Michigan. I use tart cherries a lot. They're kind of hard to find in my area. Sometimes I order them online or if I'm lucky I can find them at the store and they're usually always frozen. The cherry pie in my book, the sour crumb cherry pie that uses frozen sour cherries. But I also love dark sweet cherries. I can always find them in my area. I've made cobbler with them. I've made a sweet cherry pie with them. But I love the taste of sour cherries. The cherry flavor is so much, I don't know, just stronger and more flavorful and it's like, oh, that is a cherry pie. There is no mistaking. And they're just this beautiful bright red color.
But I don't don't know how grandma did it. How did they half remember these recipes? It is just some sort of magic because I mean, I can't remember what I did yesterday, so it must be a gift. When you become a grandparent, you just kind of... I don't know. It always stuck in her head and it would be different every time I feel like, but every time it would be so delicious.
Jessie Sheehan:
So you grew up in this from scratch house as it were when it came to food, cooking and baking and eating from scratch. Food was totally part of your childhood. Tell us about, I think it was your mom's pecan pie and maybe your grandma's Irish soda bread?
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Or did I mix that up?
Sally McKenney:
So they were both my grandma's recipes, but obviously then became my mom's recipes. And-
Jessie Sheehan:
So the grandma is your mom's-
Sally McKenney:
Is my mom's mom.
Jessie Sheehan:
... mom's mom.
Sally McKenney:
And so my grandma's birthday is on St. Patrick's Day, and she's no longer with us, but she just was known for making this absolutely delicious Irish soda bread. I posted the recipe on my website just as a testament to her. She just made it so special. That was a recipe she did write down. So I did have that one. And also her pecan pie as well, which is just a staple around the holidays.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yum.
Sally McKenney:
And she also always made these pecan sticky buns, which I know you didn't ask about, but I just had to throw it in there.
Jessie Sheehan:
Please. I mean, oh my gosh. Throw, throw, throw.
Sally McKenney:
Those are amazing with the sticky topping. I mean, who doesn't love a pecan sticky bun? But those were her signatures were the pecan pie, the Irish soda bread, and that cherry pie.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yums. And were your mom and grandmother always cooking too? Was it as much about food memories about something that you ate for dinner or lunch as it was baking? Or were they more bakers?
Sally McKenney:
They were both, but I think the baking sticks out the most because I have a sweet tooth and it's so delicious. And those are instilled in core memories. You remember back to certain times and you remember, oh, whenever we went to grandma's house, we would always have this kind of cookie or this kind of cake. Or for my birthday, my mom always made this type of pie. And I just feel like desserts just kind of correlate with those core memories of growing up. And so the baking sticks out the most and obviously has stuck with me into my adulthood.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. I love that. And I can relate to that. One other recipe. I want you to tell us about your mom's minty brownies.
Sally McKenney:
Oh yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Please tell me about those because chocolate and mint and chocolate and peanut butter are my two favorite flavor combos.
Sally McKenney:
Yes. The crème de menthe brownies.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, tell me everything.
Sally McKenney:
Growing up, my mom would always make an array of desserts around the holidays. There would be those pecan snowball cookies, there would be peanut butter bars, those-bake peanut butter bars, and then the creme de menthe brownies, which I mean just tasted even better somehow around the holidays. I don't know how because they're already so good, and they're this really dense, delicious brownie. And then you have that creamy crème de menthe topping on top, followed by this chocolatey topping. My sisters and I would fight over the last one. I mean, they were so good. And just like I remember those treats just on a treat tray just instilled in my brain. And I will always relate those to Christmas growing up. I love the creme de menthe brownies and I had to put them in this book.
Jessie Sheehan:
Of course.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
So were you always helping your mom and your grandma or were you more observing? And what about your sisters? Were they interested at all?
Sally McKenney:
They were, yes. We all kind of helped. And then we would observe and then just enjoy the fruits of the labor sometimes. I guess it just depended, but I would always want to help.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. So already when you were little, your mom would say you were a little more into it than your sisters were?
Sally McKenney:
Yes, for sure.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
And were you into cooking as well or it was more the baking?
Sally McKenney:
More the baking. I kind of learned how to cook when I became an adult, and I'm kind of good. I'm better at baking.
Jessie Sheehan:
We'll be right back.
Peeps, did you hear the news? Cherry Bombe's Jubilee conference is headed to Los Angeles this fall. It's taking place Sunday, September 28th at Hudson Loft in downtown L.A. It'll be a full day of inspiring conversations, delicious food and drink, and incredible community. Since 2014, this one-of-a-kind gathering has celebrated the voices and talents of women across the worlds of food, drink, restaurants, and hospitality. Now it's L.A.'s turn, and we can't wait to give the city the love it deserves. Tickets are sold out, but sign up for the waitlist at cherrybombe.com and be the first to know if more tickets become available. Now, back to our guest.
When you were little, were there cookbooks that you loved? Did your mom have cookbooks in her kitchen?
Sally McKenney:
Yes. My mom would always get one, the Bon Appétit magazine, which she still bakes from the 1989 issue. She still has that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Sally McKenney:
She's got some favorites in there. And then the big fat book, I think it's called “The Joy of Cooking.” It's white, it has the red writing on it, and it has literally every recipe known to man. She cooked a lot from that.
Jessie Sheehan:
In 2011, I think when you first started the blog... And I just want to tell listeners, this is Sally's second time on She's My Cherry Pie chatting with me. And so you need to go back to that other episode because there's also a lot of information about the blog in that one too, but I'm going to talk about it a little bit right now. So in 2011, you started the blog and it was sort of for friends, for family, for co-workers who asked you for a recipe and you thought, "Wouldn't it be fun if they could find it easily?" And you were already kind of dabbling in at least following some food blogs and some photography blogs.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
And were you thinking to yourself as you looked at these things online like, "Oh my gosh, I could do that?"
Sally McKenney:
Yes, I was, when I first started, it was just this place to put my recipes to send to people I know. It was never, "I'm going to make a career out of this." That was never in my mind whatsoever. And so I think when I saw other people in this food blog world, they had ads on their site and I saw that you could earn some money from posting your content on your food blog. I was like, "Oh, let me give that a try. Let me see." And I remember I made $80 after eight months and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I made it. I made it." And so I was so proud and I just kept going. And then it just kind of snowballed from there.
Jessie Sheehan:
Incredible.
Sally McKenney:
That was 2012, it was by that point. And then I gave it another year and I knew if I just kept going, if I had more time, if I didn't have this nine-to-five job, then I could really make this a thing.
Jessie Sheehan:
Totally. And when you first started, were you trying to take really beautiful photos just for your friends and family to see? Or was it very bare-bones, like here's the recipe?
Sally McKenney:
It was very bare-bones. It was a small little photo with my iPhone with probably the first iteration of an iPhone.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. I love that.
Sally McKenney:
15 years ago.
Jessie Sheehan:
So tell us about this first recipe that you posted, your peanut butter chocolate blondies. And there is one on the site that I actually was looking at recently because, as many people do who bake, I'm always looking to your website to be like, "Oh, what does Sally do?" Because we all look for inspo from the internet and from books, et cetera and I always want to know what Sally does that Sally's recipes always work and are delicious.
Sally McKenney:
Jessie, you're so sweet.
Jessie Sheehan:
But I was just looking at this recipe. So tell us about it and then also tell us how, if at all, you've changed it since then.
Sally McKenney:
Yes. So I first published this first recipe, this peanut butter blondies with Reese's Pieces in it, and it was my first recipe back in December 2011. And I remember I tested a bunch of different things and this one really worked. It was delicious. I took a simple little picture of it and that was that. That was the beginning of the beginning. And then I think about five years later, I republished the recipe or I published it again and I made some slight tweaks because since five years later, my expertise, I guess improved. I learned more in the kitchen, lots of trial and error, and I think I changed the leavening in it. I'd have to look back. And I think I made the recipe a little bigger so it would be a thicker blondie. Just little small improvements that you make as the years go by. You're like, "Oh, I can do something a little better this time."
Jessie Sheehan:
Of course. Of course.
Sally McKenney:
So I do still have the original recipe there.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh. You have both?
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, I love that. I love that. So in addition to the blog being this incredible creative outlet for your love of baking and photography, it seems like working on the blog also made you realize that you love teaching baking and that that's a big component of it for you. Can you explain that?
Sally McKenney:
Sure. So I think having this website and starting this blog has taught me so much about myself. I didn't really know that I liked to teach. But the more recipes I published and the more I personally learned in the kitchen, the more I learned that I wanted to teach how to bake, not just what to bake. And so I love sharing when something goes wrong, I love sharing, "this is how I tested the recipe, and interestingly enough, this amount of baking powder makes all the difference and here's why." And sometimes I'll share side-by-side photos, here's where I tried the cookie with melted butter. Here's where I tried it with softened butter, and this is what I came to and why I like this version better. People have really caught onto that, have really grasped that.
And I think that I try to write it in a very personable way. I'm still learning. I'm self-taught. And I think that people can gravitate towards that. And it's interesting, this little amount of ,whatever, this little amount of baking soda made all the difference. And I think home bakers want to learn why these certain things work. I mean, some do.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of good. No, I think we all do. And it's so interesting. I mean, with baking, because it's so science-based in the end, it is really interesting. I think what's even more interesting is when you break the rules and when you can break the rules and only an expert like yourself can teach us when to break and when not to break.
Sally McKenney:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
I'm very much a rule follower, I think, which is why I love baking. And when someone breaks the rules and goes like, "Oh my God, oh my God. I need to understand this." So now you have an entire team that helps you with the blog and helped with the book, and we'll talk about that. How far into the process of doing it, how many years till you realized I cannot do this alone?
Sally McKenney:
Yes. So it was about five years in that I made my first hire and I just posted about it, I think on my website. I think I just said, "Hey, I'm looking for an assistant." And then I got some resumes and I ended up hiring Stephanie, and she still works for me.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, I love that.
Sally McKenney:
Yes, we're coming up on our ten-year anniversary together.
Jessie Sheehan:
Incredible.
Sally McKenney:
She's amazing.
Jessie Sheehan:
Are there sort of like off-site people who assist as well as people who live in your hometown and can come?
Sally McKenney:
Yes. So I have two remote employees and then I have four employees who live in Maryland. Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
So great. So great. And then this is a question that I'm always curious about. You bake so much for work. I do too. Not quite as much as you, but I do too. And for me it means that I almost never bake for pleasure, unless I'm having a dinner party or it's a birthday. Are you baking all the time? Do you bake for work and then come home and bake something? Or do you just bring what you baked at work home?
Sally McKenney:
I usually bring what I bake then home. But when I am baking not within work hours or for work, it's usually baking with my children. And so we just made scones the other day, which side note, my daughter gave an eight out of 10. She said there weren't enough chocolate chips. There's nothing like the truthful opinion of a young child.
Jessie Sheehan:
Is she the one who also said something like it's a 10 out of five?
Sally McKenney:
Yes, she did. She likes to give number ratings. Anyway, so she's so funny. We bake a lot on the weekends together and that's usually when I'm baking not for work, is with my children. Or if it's a holiday, I will always make a pumpkin pie, pecan pie, apple pie, and then always Christmas cookies. But I'm going to be honest, by the time those holidays come around, I have already made so many holiday foods for my website. But it's all good. No complaints.
Jessie Sheehan:
All right, now I want to talk about your incredible new book, “Sally's Baking 101.” And as we record this, today is the book's birthday.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Very exciting.
Sally McKenney:
Born today.
Jessie Sheehan:
Born today. So this is actually your fourth book, but it feels different than the first three, I think to you and probably to readers and lovers of you, like me. Tell us about this book.
Sally McKenney:
Yes, so it is my fourth, Jessie, like you said, but it feels like my first again for a variety of reasons. One, I feel like the cookbook industry has just changed so much since I authored my last book, which was eight years ago. So I feel like the landscape has changed, social media has changed. There's so many more ways to promote your work, which is fantastic. There's so many more ways to reach your audience. The promotion was bigger. Not only that, the book itself is bigger. So I'm with a new publisher.
I took eight years off from writing a book because I really wanted to hone in on some kitchen skills because I wanted to write a book that was just a perfect overview of the material you find on my website. I mean, I made my first three books early in my career. I wrote those. As I grew my website, as my kitchen skills improved and how to write a recipe, how to test recipes, how to develop them better, I wanted to write a book that was a beautiful summary of what you can find on my website. And I knew I needed to wait to do that. I needed to improve myself. And so this feels like the first time again because it's bigger, it's longer. It's 101 recipes. I'm with a new publisher. And it feels like me. I don't know. This is the book I've always wanted to write, so I'm so proud of it.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah. No, it's beautiful. The recipes, 101 crowd-pleasing bakes to suit every occasion and craving and then all these basic baking principles and tools and ingredients detailed how-tos, step-by-step photos. I am a very tip and trick-obsessed baker, and I love all of the incredible baking tips that you share throughout this book. And I thought it might be fun to go through some of my favorites that jumped out at me before we jump into your cheesecake recipe.
Sally McKenney:
Okay, let's do it.
Jessie Sheehan:
Awesome. So first I thought this was so interesting. You mentioned this in the beginning of the book, but you have a, I'm going to call it a tip, about doubling recipes. And you say you need to be careful about doubling recipes because the leavening doesn't always require absolute doubling. I did not know that. Can you unpack that a little, Sally?
Sally McKenney:
Yeah, sure. So usually when you double a recipe, you will usually need less of a leavening, depending on how much is used. So if you are making a cookie recipe and it calls for a teaspoon of baking soda, doubling it would most likely be fine, but you probably don't need two full teaspoons. Again, you can do it, but I usually just like to play it safe and make two separate batches. And then if the dough needs to chill, then I'll just combine them together and chill them. It's fine after that, once it's mixed together. But things you really need to be careful about is a yeasted recipe, like a yeasted dough. You most definitely do not need as much yeast when you're doubling it.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's so interesting.
Sally McKenney:
And also Jessie, if you are doubling a yeasted dough and you're using a stand mixer, that extra volume of dough is probably going to overwhelm your mixer. So I always make two separate batches if I can.
Jessie Sheehan:
Batches. Yep.
Sally McKenney:
Which does take a little bit extra time, but you're not sabotaging yourself that way.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah. And back to your cookie point, you're saying that if you needed double the amount of cookies, you would just make two batches rather than try to just use the two teaspoons?
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's so interesting.
Sally McKenney:
I make two separate batches.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that.
Sally McKenney:
Which you can kind of have an assembly line ready and it takes just as long.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. I also loved tip for shaping chocolate chip cookies. So basically, you instruct us to shape them into lumpy, misshapen cylinders, which I love. Because actually when they bake, they bake beautifully-
Sally McKenney:
yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
... would you say that is a tip for a number of different cookies or it's kind of your chocolate chip cookie recipe specific?
Sally McKenney:
I usually keep that lumpy cylinder tip, which is just so funny to say out loud. My co-recipe writer, Beth, and I were discussing how do we describe this shape? And we were like lumpy columns, lumpy cylinders. So anyway, I usually keep that with recipes that have an add-in, which will help you get those lumps. So when it bakes down, it's like that bakery style look with the pretty divots and lumps in it, and it's not just this flat kind of cookie. And so typically I usually do that for cookies that have chocolate chips or some type of add-in in it, unless otherwise noted. Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. I love that. Your brownie tip also caught my eye. This is about a crinkly-topped brownie, which I feel like is the gold standard. I, too, believe this is the way to get the crinkly top. There is some disagreement. I feel like some people have other theories. Tell us how you should get a crinkly top on top of our brownies.
Sally McKenney:
Okay. So usually you'll have to use melted butter in there, and then you'll have to mix in the sugar when the butter is still warm, whisk it in because the crinkly top is kind of like the sugar rising to the top of the brownie batter that creates that shiny surface on top. So don't reduce the sugar in a brownie recipe, make sure it's mixed into the butter while the melted butter is still warm. And then chocolate chips, adding chocolate chips to a brownie recipe is, yes, a little more sugar, but I mean you're eating a brownie. And then that extra sugar will help create those beautiful crinkly tops. It's something about the sugar and making sure that butter is warm enough and the chocolate chips too.
Jessie Sheehan:
All of those tips. Yes, yes, yes. I love this tip for buttercream. You want us to use a paddle instead of a whisk attachment in our stand mixer or in our hand mixer because the whisk can bring in too many bubbles.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. Here's my question for you though. I love that I have Sally here and I can ask her all my questions.
Sally McKenney:
Jessie.
Jessie Sheehan:
I like to beat my buttercream for a really long time because I love the texture that it develops, and I also think that it becomes less sweet the longer you are incorporating those ingredients. But you would do that low and slow with a paddle rather than with a whisk?
Sally McKenney:
Yes. So you're going to get two different results. So Jessie, the way that you do it's probably not as sweet because there's so much more air whipped into it. So it's light, it's fluffy, so delicious. That is fantastic. Then if you want a smoother buttercream, you don't want those air bubbles in there, then use your paddle attachment and don't over mix because over mixing, you'll get those air bubbles in there. And then if you're frosting a cake and you're doing some sort of certain design, you don't want any air bubbles in it, then use the paddle attachment for that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. I also wanted to ask you about your tip for pie crust. You suggest glass. You can see the bottom, the way it holds on to heat, et cetera. I, too, have always been a glass pie girl. However, lately I've been reading so much about metal pie plates and how they really help with soggy bottoms.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
What do you think about a metal pie plate?
Sally McKenney:
I love them too.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay. When you're doing your pumpkin and your apple at Thanksgiving for the family, which one are you using?
Sally McKenney:
Glass.
Jessie Sheehan:
You are using glass?
Sally McKenney:
Yes. I like to see if the bottom crust is done.
Jessie Sheehan:
And you don't think it makes a huge difference in terms of insurance against a soggy bottom with metal?
Sally McKenney:
I think that glass and metal are the same in that respect. I also, I have metal pie dishes. Those are great too. I definitely will recommend those over a ceramic pie dish, which is thicker and just won't conduct heat as efficiently. And so either glass or metal, but I prefer glass because I like to see when the pie crust is brown on the bottom.
Jessie Sheehan:
Me too. I like that too. All right, two more tips. I love your fruit crisp tip, which is not to use frozen fruit. Because I think this has happened to me, the crisp gets so soggy.
Sally McKenney:
Yes, it's almost like chalky.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, and kind of white.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah.
Sally McKenney:
Yes. And because it absorbs all the moisture from the frozen fruit. So we tested the fruit crisp recipe in this book many times. We tested it with frozen and with fresh. Far and wide, everyone preferred the fresh. It not only looked better, it just tasted better. So the great thing is the recipe I put in this book, it can carry you through the seasons because you won't ever have to use frozen because there's one for the summer, there's one for the fall.
Jessie Sheehan:
It's great.
Sally McKenney:
Fresh is best when it comes to that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Finally, a muffin tip, which I always do this as well, but tell us why we start our muffins at a high temp, 450, and then drop them to 350?
Sally McKenney:
So you start at 425.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh 425. Sorry. It even says 425 here. I just read it wrong.
Sally McKenney:
Yes. It's okay. You're excited to talk about muffins. I love talking about all these baking tips with you. So when making a muffin recipe, if you're looking for that beautifully high-domed top, start the muffins in a very hot oven for just five minutes, which really lifts up those tops, gets them risen up there, and then lower the oven temperature with the muffins still in the oven. So for the remaining time, it will cook the center of the muffin.
Jessie Sheehan:
Perfect.
Sally McKenney:
So that initial burst of really high heat will set the muffin, will set the shape, and then the rest of the time the center will bake.
Jessie Sheehan:
Love it. Love it. All right, finally, classic cheesecake recipe time. You described this as a beloved recipe of yours. Tell us why it is beloved.
Sally McKenney:
So this is my classic cheesecake. This is the cheesecake I make when I just want a classic, I don't even want to say the word plain because it doesn't even taste plain. It is just when you want cheesecake, this is the recipe to make. This is the recipe I make. And it is a fan favorite on my website. It's my go-to and lots of people love it. So I knew I wanted to put it... It's one of the website recipes that I put in this book. And so it has that standard graham cracker crust. You could of course use an Oreo crust or like a Biscoff cookie crust or gingersnap, but I just like the classic graham cracker crust there. And then the really creamy, tangy, not overly sweet cheesecake filling-
Jessie Sheehan:
Love.
Sally McKenney:
... baked to perfection. And then it's sort of a canvas for any topping. But you don't even need a topping if you want. But in the book, I prepared it with a cherry sauce topping with, again, those sour cherries, Jessie.
Jessie Sheehan:
They're a theme. They're a theme. All right, let's jump in. So we're going to heat the oven to 350 degrees, and we're going to wrap one or two large pieces of heavy-duty aluminum foil around an ungreased nine or 10-inch springform. So I had a couple of questions. First, is there a brand of springform pan that you love?
Sally McKenney:
I really like Nordic Ware. I think I also have it like a Wilton one I really like. Yes, Nordic Ware I think is my go-to. I'm trying to think. I have so many pans at home, Jessie.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, of course you do. I know why we're going to wrap it in foil, but can you tell us why you're going to wrap it in foil?
Sally McKenney:
Sure. So the key here is you want to wrap the springform pan in foil because you're going to place the cheesecake in a water bath. And I know when some people see a recipe that calls for a water bath with cheesecake, it's just like this whole other step. It's like, "Why am I even doing this?" But without it, your cheesecake is going to sink. It's going to burn on top. You need a humid oven to bake cheesecake. You know this. And I'm happy to explain it to readers.
So the first thing you want to do is, before you even add the crust in, you want to wrap the pan in aluminum foil. And I strongly recommend heavy-duty aluminum foil. Sometimes it's labeled as the foil you'll use on a grill or something. So get the heavy-duty aluminum foil, wrap it around there. Sometimes I do it twice. So two sheets of foil. And it doesn't need to be perfect. Just wrap it around as best you can. And then have a shallow baking dish ready, because that's what you will eventually bake the cheesecake in, once the filling's in there.
Jessie Sheehan:
And just to be clear, we're wrapping and foiling because the actual cheesecake will sit in the water-
Sally McKenney:
In the water.
Jessie Sheehan:
... and a springform pan is not a sealed environment.
Sally McKenney:
Yes, thank you. Yes, it's not sealed. So you need the aluminum foil.
Jessie Sheehan:
You need that, yep. And then why is it, I thought that was interesting. How come we're not greasing our pan?
Sally McKenney:
There's enough butter in the graham cracker crust. You don't need to grease it.
Jessie Sheehan:
And you don't worry about the side sticking?
Sally McKenney:
It won't.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay, love. So first, we're going to make the graham cracker crust. So in a medium bowl, and I have to ask, what kind of bowl does Sally like?
Sally McKenney:
I use glass bowls at home and I honestly don't even know what the brand is. It's from Williams-Sonoma. They're nesting glass mixing bowls that I use because that's what I melt the butter in the microwave. it's microwave safe.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. I'm very microwave forward. So I always have glass bowls. And I even have those nesting Williams-Sonoma ones and I love them. So in a medium bowl we're going to combine our graham cracker crumbs. And just a couple of questions about the crumbs. Is there a brand of crumbs that you like? And if you're at home, for your test kitchen, are you guys buying crumbs or are you buying graham crackers and making-
Sally McKenney:
I'm buying graham crackers because we also like to eat them.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Sally McKenney:
So I buy graham crackers, Nabisco brand.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, of course.
Sally McKenney:
It's great. I just get the original ones.
Jessie Sheehan:
And so if you're grinding them yourself, are you often doing it in a food processor?
Sally McKenney:
Yep, yep.
Jessie Sheehan:
And if you were grinding them yourself and in the food processor, would you then do everything in the food processor?
Sally McKenney:
You certainly can, but since I melt the butter in a glass bowl, I just think it's easier to do the food processor step first with the graham crackers, and you can also add the sugar right there into the food processor after the graham crackers have become crumbs, and then pour all of that into the bowl of butter.
Jessie Sheehan:
You know what, you're a genius because I usually take the melted butter that I melted in my glass bowl in the microwave, then I pour it into the food processor. Then the food processor is really dirty. And you have to get out all the little crumbs and scrape the blade.
Sally McKenney:
From the crevices.
Jessie Sheehan:
You are a genius. So even if you're grinding your own, just do the dry ingredients. I love it.
Sally McKenney:
Yes. It's so much easier to clean the food processor.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. It's so much easier. Yay. Okay. I can't wait to go make a cheesecake. Okay, so we're going to combine our graham cracker crumbs or we've ground them in a food processor and we've transferred, and our granulated sugar into this bowl with our melted butter. We're going to stir in some melted unsalted butter. We'll break up any clumps. The mixture should be sandy. What utensil are you using at this point for stirring?
Sally McKenney:
Just a spoon.
Jessie Sheehan:
Just a spoon.
Sally McKenney:
Literally a spoon.
Jessie Sheehan:
Just a wooden spoon or a metal spoon?
Sally McKenney:
Metal spoon.
Jessie Sheehan:
That you would eat cereal with.
Sally McKenney:
Maybe one larger size.
Jessie Sheehan:
One larger than that?
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay. We're going to transfer our crust ingredients into our prepared pan. Again, that isn't greased or anything. We're going to use our hands to pat the crumbs into the bottom and partly up the sides. An inch? Is it a visual thing? Does it have any purpose but visual?
Sally McKenney:
Well, otherwise the bottom crust would be too thick and it would be hard to slice through.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Sally McKenney:
That's why you want to press it up against the sides a little bit.
Jessie Sheehan:
Love it.
Sally McKenney:
It's about an inch, inch and a half.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. Now we're going to bake the crust for 10 minutes. Any cues that it's done? Is it the color? Is it a smell?
Sally McKenney:
I mean, it's going to smell delicious, but you just don't want to burn it. You don't want to get it too dark. So I find 10 minutes is just the perfect head start for it.
Jessie Sheehan:
Perfect. We'll remove it from the pan. Set it aside while we make the filling. We're going to leave our oven on. Now we're going to make our filling. Large bowl. I'm assuming it's our large Williams-Sonoma glass bowl, which I love and use. You know why they're also great? My microwave is kind of little and my Pyrex, which I also love, doesn't fit, but the Williams-Sonomas have higher sides, so they're great in all shapes of microwave.
So now we're going to use a handheld or stem mixer fitted with the paddle. If you're at home, do you have a preference? Are you using your stem mixer as opposed to handheld?
Sally McKenney:
I usually like to grab my hand mixer.
Jessie Sheehan:
You do?
Sally McKenney:
Because I find that it can really get down into the cream cheese, because sometimes I feel like the paddle attachment doesn't get all the way down to get all of those big heavy pieces of cream cheese. I will usually use my handheld mixer, but a stand mixer is fine because this is a lot of batter. It's a lot.
Jessie Sheehan:
And this is kind of so radical, but have you ever made cheesecake filling in a food processor?
Sally McKenney:
No. I don't think I have.
Jessie Sheehan:
I have read about that. And I've made Basque cheesecake. I know Basque cheesecake is a different animal, but I obviously have done that in a food processor. I need to get this and then I'll DM it to you. But I feel like I read about making cheesecake batter in a food processor, which I think you do run the risk of too much air. You have to be careful. But you could also maybe get a super smooth, beautiful batter.
Sally McKenney:
You probably could.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Anyway, I just wondered. So we're going to beat our cream cheese. Brand of cream cheese that you love?
Sally McKenney:
I usually use the Philadelphia brand.
Jessie Sheehan:
And granulated sugar on medium-high speed until smooth and creamy. About two minutes. Then we're going to beat in room temperature sour cream. So, a couple of questions. First of all, is there a favorite brand?
Sally McKenney:
I usually use store brand or whatever's on sale.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I thought this was interesting. Why sour cream? It seems like in the lexicon of cheesecakes, people use sour cream, they use yogurt, they use heavy cream.
Sally McKenney:
I find sour cream gives the cheesecake itself a lot of structure, and so it's not overly soft. It has a good, I don't want to say it has a good bite to it. I mean, it's not firm, but it's still quite creamy. But I feel like sour cream is that nice sweet spot and it adds that little bit of tang that you wouldn't really get from heavy cream. Plain yogurt is fine, but you really want that full-fat sour cream.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Yeah, I can picture it. Yeah.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
We're going to add a little bit of lemon juice. Why? Does that just cut sweetness?
Sally McKenney:
It cuts a little of the sweetness. It also just keeps the flavor fresh. So it's not really a flat-tasting cheesecake. It's bright.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. And then we're going to add vanilla. Do you have a favorite vanilla brand?
Sally McKenney:
I really love Nielsen-Massey.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, I do too. I do too. And we're going to mix until fully combined. I know this is visual, but are we thinking two minutes? Three minutes?
Sally McKenney:
It usually takes about two minutes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Great.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Then we're going to scrape down the side to the bowl as needed and with the mixer on medium speed. So what was it on before, just so I can... Medium high. So we've lowered it a teeny bit onto medium speed. We're going to add room temperature eggs one at a time beating after each addition just until combined. And I thought this was interesting. There's no salt in the filling. I tend to be someone who's always adding a teeny bit of salt just to pop flavor, et cetera. Not to make things salty. Was that a specific choice for you guys?
Sally McKenney:
We don't need it here because of the sour cream. And you have that tangy cream cheese too.
Jessie Sheehan:
Which already is a little salty.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep, yep. Love. We're going to stop the mixer as soon as the final egg is fully mixed into the batter and you tell us over overmixing will deflate our cheesecake. I never really understood this because too much air will be in the cheesecake and then once it starts to bake, it'll escape while baking and collapse.
Sally McKenney:
And it will sink.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
So interesting. I always thought it was a texture thing. You didn't want it to be too fluffy tasting and not dense enough. But it's actually also an actual visual thing.
Sally McKenney:
Yes, it is.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Yeah. So interesting. Just to remind readers and listeners, so that must mean room temperature eggs are super important because with a room temp egg-
Sally McKenney:
It mixes quicker.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Sally McKenney:
You're right.
Jessie Sheehan:
It's going to combine more easily. Love that. You say the batter will be thick. Now we're going to boil a kettle of water. We're going to place our wrapped springform pan, which has the warm pre-baked crust in it, into our prepared roasting pan. We're going to pour the cheesecake batter into the crust and use a spatula. Offset?
Sally McKenney:
An offset spatula will be easiest for this. Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. And is there a brand that offset?
Sally McKenney:
I really like the OXO brand or Ateco is great too.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. So we're going to pour the cheesecake batter into the crust. We'll use a spatula to smooth it into an even layer. And then we're going to carefully pour an inch of boiling water into our roasting pan. Place it in the oven. I do love that you give those of us who are a bit clumsy and alternative. Tell us about an easier way to do it with the oven rack.
Sally McKenney:
Yes. So if you don't want to carry this big giant roasting pan with your heavy cheesecake in it, plus-
Jessie Sheehan:
Filled with boiling water.
Sally McKenney:
Filled with boiling water. It's always helpful to just place it in the oven, pour the water into the roasting pan while it's already set on a rack and the cheesecake's already in the oven, you pull the rack out and then pour the boiling water in. That's obviously if you're clumsy or it's just too much. It's heavy depending on how heavy your roasting pan is. So that is always helpful too.
Jessie Sheehan:
Which do you do?
Sally McKenney:
I do it the second way.
Jessie Sheehan:
You do?
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
So now we're going to bake for 55 to 70 minutes. And I love that there is a big range here because everybody's oven is different and cheesecakes are finicky.
Sally McKenney:
Yes. When a recipe calls for a really long bake time, you're going to have that long range. Okay? So 55 to 70 minutes. But what's helpful is what I say here until the center's almost set, you don't want it perfectly set. A little wobbly center is completely fine because it's going to continue to set after.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. You say that we can gently tap the pan and we should see a little wobble. I've always thought of this as sort of the way Jell-O is, like a little.
Sally McKenney:
Jiggling. Exactly like that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. I just did a little shimmy piece.
Sally McKenney:
You did.
Jessie Sheehan:
Also, good note, if the top of the cheesecake is browning too quickly, we're going to tent it with foil halfway through baking. So this made me think of something. Do you rotate cheesecake at the halfway mark?
Sally McKenney:
I have never done it because then you have to twist it inside the roast pan.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, right, you have the water.
Sally McKenney:
I do not rotate cheesecake. I just have never done it.
Jessie Sheehan:
And so you will just turn on your oven light, see if it's too brown, and then tent it.
Sally McKenney:
And then tent with foil.
Jessie Sheehan:
Because I think I was trained in a bakery, I rotate everything. A lot of people do not rotate. Do you guys rotate in the test kitchen?
Sally McKenney:
Yes, I do.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, me too.
Sally McKenney:
I rotate pretty much everything. Apparently not cheesecake, though.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, not cheesecake and probably not pop over. There's certain things you can't-
Sally McKenney:
No, there's things you don't touch.
Jessie Sheehan:
... you can't open.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
But yeah, I'm a big rotator. I'm always interested by guests who are like, "No, I never rotate." Okay. Once we have our jello jiggle, we're going to turn off our oven, open the door slightly, maybe put a wooden spoon. If the door doesn't stay open a jar by itself. Stick something in there. We're leaving the cheesecake and the water bath in place. Tell us why we are doing this.
Sally McKenney:
Okay. Because you want the cheesecake to start cooling down very slowly. If there's a sudden change in temperature, your cheesecake is going to start deflating and falling. And then it's going to have those wrinkly edges. Still delicious, of course. But if you want it to stay tall, which makes just a beautiful slice of cheesecake, very delicious, then you want it to cool down very slowly. And so you want to play around with the temperature yourself and control it yourself by just gently opening that oven, keep it propped open a bit and let that temperature come down.
Jessie Sheehan:
Is that standard cheesecake? Because I think that's such a great tip.
Sally McKenney:
Oh, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
It's standard? All right.
Sally McKenney:
Yeah, yeah. I've seen a lot of recipes that do that.
Jessie Sheehan:
As you can see, I don't really spend much time with cheesecake recipes.
Sally McKenney:
Yes, I can tell, Jessie. I love it.
Jessie Sheehan:
So now I'm kind of excited. I'm like, "I want a tall, beautiful cheesecake." So we do that for an hour. And it's not a visual cue, it's just about time.
Sally McKenney:
Yes, just about time.
Jessie Sheehan:
About an hour with the handle of our wooden spoon in our oven door. Which also reminds me of making a pavlova, where you either keep it in a closed oven or just set it ajar. We're going to remove the cheesecake from the water bath, discard our foil. Place the springform pan on a cooling rack and cool completely at room temp.
Sally McKenney:
Yep. So it's out of the water bath now.
Jessie Sheehan:
What are we talking? A couple of hours probably until it's room temp?
Sally McKenney:
Probably about one to two hours. Yep. Just go on with your day. Let it cool a bit.
Jessie Sheehan:
Then when it's cooled, we're going to cover and refrigerate the cheesecake for at least four hours or up to two days. So when you're making a cheesecake, not necessarily for the test kitchen when you need it for the book or for the blog, but if you're making it for your family or a friend, would you make it the night before and then just let it be in the fridge all day?
Sally McKenney:
Yep. I usually start it the afternoon before and then-
Jessie Sheehan:
And you serve it cold, right?
Sally McKenney:
Oh, yeah. You serve it cold.
Jessie Sheehan:
You can see how little I know about cheesecake.
Sally McKenney:
You're going to make this now. I know you are. Yes. And then I usually get started on it the day before and then overnight it's in the fridge. And then it's ready. I mean, you just got to get your toppings ready.
Jessie Sheehan:
Perfect. It's a good make-ahead dessert.
Sally McKenney:
Yes, it is.
Jessie Sheehan:
So now we're going to make our cherry sauce topping. You don't have to do this, but peeps, you definitely should. So in a small bowl, and I'm not even going to ask this time, I believe this is a Williams-Sonoma nesting bowl, we are going to mix some cornstarch, some water, and some lemon juice. And we're going to stir to dissolve the cornstarch. Maybe a fork. What's your-
Sally McKenney:
Oh, I just use a fork because it's a real small amount. Just a very small bowl.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love a fork. I love my hands in the kitchen, but I also love a fork in the kitchen. Then in a medium saucepan, we're going to combine fresh or frozen. Here we can use frozen fruit. But they're going to be unthawed, pitted sour cherries. And you have a great reason for why you don't like sweet in this recipe.
Sally McKenney:
Yes, because the cherry flavor just does not come through as much if you use sweet cherries. You certainly can, and it's delicious, but the flavor is so much better with sour cherries.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's amazing. So we're going to combine fresh or frozen pitted, sour cherries, granulated sugar, and table salt. I thought that was interesting. Do you never use kosher salt in your baking?
Sally McKenney:
I do sometimes, but for the recipes I publish online and in my book, I just use table salt.
Jessie Sheehan:
Table salt.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
If you were at home, you might put in kosher.
Sally McKenney:
Yes. Yeah, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Everyone's going to love hearing what Sally does at home. Okay, we're going to cook over medium heat, stirring occasionally until the cherries begin to release their juices, four to six minutes. Then we'll stir in our cornstarch mixture. Bring to a boil. Do we need to raise the temp to bring it up to a boil?
Sally McKenney:
No, just wait for it. Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
It'll just start to boil. Stirring often. Once it's reached a boil, we'll cook for a minute. Do you want to tell us why we need to wait a minute?
Sally McKenney:
Just wait a minute. It's going to start to thicken.
Jessie Sheehan:
Right. And it'll activate the starch I think at that point.
Sally McKenney:
Yes. You need to wait for it to heat up and thicken.
Jessie Sheehan:
Perfect. We're going to remove from the heat, stir in the vanilla. We'll pour the sauce into a heat-safe bowl and let stand at room temp until completely cool. Can we speed this up by putting it in the fridge, or would you not do that?
Sally McKenney:
Yes. And that's why I say put it into a heat-proof bowl. Get it out the-
Jessie Sheehan:
Hot.
Sally McKenney:
... get it out of the pan, and you can put it in the fridge.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then the mixture will thicken as it cools. We'll run our knife around the edge of the springform, help loosen the cheesecake, and remove the outer ring. When we're serving, we'll cut slices with a sharp knife. For neat slices, we'll dip the knife in water and wipe the knife clean between each slice. Spoon-cooled cherry sauce topping over each slice. So yum. And I just wanted to mention two additional cheesecake recipes in the book because they sound delicious. Tell us about the lime cheesecake bars. I think they have brown butter in the graham crust.
Sally McKenney:
Yes. So it's Key lime pie cheesecake bars. And I love this recipe. It's basically as if you're making just a full cheesecake, but you're just making them as bars and you're making it in a big 9 x 13 dish. So this is a great dessert. If you are hosting, if you have a lot of people over, you need a big dessert, key lime pie cheesecake bars on a brown butter crust. I remember when we were testing this recipe, the flavor was so great, and my co-author, Beth, and I looked at each other and we said, "Let's make it even better. Let's make this a brown butter crust so it's not the exact same as the classic cheesecake crust. "So there's a little bit of difference here. You can use the brown butter crust for anything you need.
Jessie Sheehan:
Is it still brown butter with graham?
Sally McKenney:
Yes. It's still brown butter with Graham. Yes. So delicious. And the whipped cream topping, it's very light, and the flavor is incredible.
Jessie Sheehan:
I wondered, I thought this was interesting, you don't use a water bath with this one. How come? What's the difference?
Sally McKenney:
No water bath for this. You're not working with as much batter, so it's not as susceptible to falling and cracking. And you're also covering it with whipped cream. So should-
Jessie Sheehan:
It matters less.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
I also bet there's something about the nine-inch springform is like this tiny-
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
... much less space, and the filling has to rise much higher.
Sally McKenney:
It's thicker. It's rising higher. So that's why you need that extra insurance.
Jessie Sheehan:
The water bath is more important. That makes perfect sense. And then finally, just tell us about the pumpkin cheesecake with the Biscoff crust. Oh my gosh.
Sally McKenney:
Yes. That is perfect for the fall. We're going into the fall. It's delicious. It is so wonderfully spiced. You have lots of pure pumpkin in there, lots of pumpkin pie spice. And I have a recipe in the book if you want to make your own pumpkin pie spice blend. And then lots of cinnamon. And it's pretty much the same tips as if you were making the classic cheesecake that we just ran through. And then top it with a spiced whipped cream. I use brown sugar in that whipped cream and then some pumpkin pie spice. It's perfect.
Jessie Sheehan:
I also love, there's a great little tip in there probably for all baking that involves pumpkin puree. You say to blot the puree in the bowl before you add it to the filling, tell us why we want to blot our puree.
Sally McKenney:
Otherwise it's going to be too watery for this cheesecake. And so sometimes you want that extra moisture. So if you're making a pumpkin bread or pumpkin cupcakes, you want that extra-
Jessie Sheehan:
You would never blot.
Sally McKenney:
No, I don't because you want the moisture from that. But if you're making something a little, I guess denser where the extra liquid just won't do any favors like this cheesecake. Or I have a brown butter pumpkin oatmeal cookie in the book, and you blot the pumpkin there too, because you don't want... That's a non-cake cookie. So to avoid it tasting cakey, you want to blot the pumpkin.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah.
Sally McKenney:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today, Sally. And I just want to say that you are my cherry pie.
Sally McKenney:
Oh, thank you, Jessie.
Jessie Sheehan:
My sour cherry pie.
Sally McKenney:
Yes. Thank you, Jessie.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's it for today's show. Thank you to California Prunes for supporting our show. You can find today's recipe at cherrybombe.com. Don't forget to follow She's My Cherry Pie on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen and tell your pals about us. She's My Cherry Pie is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Our producers are Kerry Diamond, Catherine Baker, and Jenna Sadhu. Thank you so much for listening to She's My Cherry Pie and happy baking.