Sophia Roe Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond. Today's guest is Sophia Roe, chef, culinary creative, founder of the Apartment Miso Culinary Studio, Emmy-nominated host, and first-time mom-to-be. Sophia is also one of the cover stars on the brand new issue of Cherry Bombe's print magazine. It's all about power and how people like Sophia are using their power for good. Sophia joined me at Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center to talk about some upcoming projects and how life can change so quickly in unexpected ways. I love Sophia and her Instagram account and the thoughtfulness she brings to everything she does. Stay tuned for our chat.
On Monday night, Cherry Bombe hosted our first-ever Power Awards and celebrated some of the most amazing women in the world of food and drink. Sophia received our Bombesquad Award for all the work she does to build and take care of her community. We presented Ina Garten with our Icon Award, for obvious reasons. And TV star, bestselling author, and activist Padma Lakshmi received our Leadership Award. Check out our Instagram and website for all the awards and the 100-plus women on our Power list. It's an inspiring group of people. Special thanks to Veuve Clicquot and S.Pellegrino for supporting our Power Awards.
It's officially summer travel season, and we've got something very special planned just for you. We're teaming up with the Visa Dining Collection by OpenTable and Visa to present the Summer Tastemaker Tour, a four-city dining series that celebrates food, drink culture, and the incredible women redefining today's culinary landscape, and it is exclusive to those with eligible Visa credit cards. Each stop on the tour will include a beautiful meal, a unique hands-on activity, and a lively panel featuring some of our favorite local culinary voices. Of course, there will be lots of time to mingle and connect with fellow food lovers from the Bombesquad. Here's a little taste of what's ahead. We'll kick things off in Austin on Friday, June 27th, at Commodore Perry Estate with chef Sarah Heard, Tracy Malechek-Ezekiel, Amanda Turner, and Ale Kuri. Then we're heading to upstate New York on July 11th for a dreamy afternoon at Wildflower Farms, complete with a focaccia-making class led by Ashley Napoli, a focaccia florist. On July 25th, we'll be at The Ground in Oregon's beautiful Willamette Valley with some incredible Pacific Northwest talent. And we're closing out the series in Nashville on August 15th with a special evening at the Frist Art Museum featuring a panel of local culinary stars and a live performance from singer-songwriter Jessie Baylin. Access to all Summer Tastemaker Tour experiences is available to those with eligible Visa credit cards. Terms and conditions apply. Visit cherrybombe.com for tickets and all the delicious details. Big thank you to OpenTable and Visa. We can't wait to see you on the road.
Now let's check in with today's guest. Sophia Roe, welcome back to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Sophia Roe:
I'm so excited to be here.
Kerry Diamond:
There's so many places we can start this conversation, but the first thing I want to ask you is did you ever think that one day your pregnancy would be announced in People Magazine?
Sophia Roe:
Isn't that so silly? That's the silliest thing. Absolutely not. That was the most silly thing. Whatever. It's cool. But no, that's definitely not on the Bingo card for sure. I still kind of can't believe that happened and I'm like, who'd even care? I'm like, did anyone even read that? I don't know, but it did happen.
Kerry Diamond:
I have no idea how long we've known each other now, but it's been a while, but I have to say I was equal parts holy S-H-I-T and oh my god, Sophia's pregnancy was just announced in People Magazine.
Sophia Roe:
Like what?
Kerry Diamond:
That's bonkers.
Sophia Roe:
It was very WTF. It's funny too because my partner, he's so off the grid, he's so just not part of social media. He has a social media but he's just not on it, and was just like, why is my mom sending me this stuff? I'm sorry babe, I'm sorry. So yeah, it was a surprise for everybody.
Kerry Diamond:
You used to write letters to your younger self. Do you still do that?
Sophia Roe:
I do still do that. I think they're not as sad, maybe as they once were.
Kerry Diamond:
That's beautiful.
Sophia Roe:
Yeah, that's good. I'm happier than I probably ever have been in my life. I definitely didn't think that would happen. I kind of always thought I'd be a little bit more of like a melancholy Megan. I've always kind of been a little sad, but I'm pretty deep in a happy phase, probably for the past few years, like two years. So I think when I talk to my younger self, it's usually framed around caution. Just like when this thing is going to happen to you, you're going to go through this, but it's just going to be fine. You're going to get through it, you're going to be better off for it. Maybe don't yell at that person like you did that one time because you'll regret it. That kind of stuff. Less trauma bonding letters and more like it's actually going to get better.
Kerry Diamond:
I've told you this, but I did a deep dive in all the Sophia podcasts, and you had said something interesting that your criteria for a partner previously included things like no face tattoos.
Sophia Roe:
That's right.
Kerry Diamond:
And now you were talking about your current partner. He does not come from a family that was filled with trauma and it was so refreshing to not even be thinking about that in terms of your partner.
Sophia Roe:
Not at all. It was awesome. I always felt like maybe because I grew up with so much trauma, didn't deserve this completely trauma-free, I didn't believe I was worthy of ease. And I just have this partner who has zero anxious attachment who has no trauma at all, most gorgeous childhood. I think the worst thing he's ever been through is one day his mom told him that she was going to drop him off at daycare and didn't. You know what I mean? It's silly. He has zero trauma. Parents were married up until his father died a few years ago. Gorgeous relationship with his brother. I'd always just kind of scared me. I'm like, I don't even know what I would do with that guy. Is he going to be able to handle me? Right.
Kerry Diamond:
I think you had said you wanted someone who understood trauma.
Sophia Roe:
That's right.
Kerry Diamond:
And had maybe even been through it himself.
Sophia Roe:
That's right. I think considering my last partner, which coincidentally, for anyone who's confused, it is a little confusing. My current partner, my current fiancé has the same name as my ex-boyfriend. And it's funny because I almost didn't go out with my current fiancé because they shared a name and I'm so glad that I put that aside because my current partner is just leaps and bounds what my ex was for me, could be for me. I think my ex and I definitely bonded over a lot of trauma and I think that got in the way of what our relationship could have been, and I think it definitely gets in the way of things like family, extending your family, having kids, career. It can get in the way of that.
I have a partner now who's just, he's got his own thing going on. He's proud of me, I'm proud of him. We're both makers. We both work with our hands. My partner's a woodworker, which is so cool. I don't know. I just feel if you're a person who's experiencing trauma, it's very easy to be like, "I need someone who gets me." But this person who doesn't have that same childhood as you, if they love you, they'll learn to understand you, and they'll learn to get you. They don't need to starve to death to understand how bad that could be to be hungry.
Kerry Diamond:
But it's so interesting to have to reevaluate what you thought you wanted and needed in another person.
Sophia Roe:
I mean, Kerry, that was a dark time. It was the hardest thing in the world to break up with my ex because nothing really happened. He's great, talented as all get out, wonderful dad, but he didn't really want any more kids. I wanted to have my own kids. I couldn't really see where this was going. I didn't really want to be 40 and just hanging out, just chilling out in the patio. No. I'm like, what are you doing with your life? What do you do? And I wanted to feel the same. I wanted to have that accountability.
So it was very challenging to step out of that relationship and be like, okay, nothing really happened, but it didn't feel good. So now what? We spent some time being single, just reevaluating myself, what do I want? I'm in my mid-30s. What does that mean? Turns out mid-30s is super bad ass. I didn't know at the time. And I think also this is the pandemic of it all. My ex, Chris, and I got together right at the beginning of the pandemic, and I think that was just such a weird time to be alone. So I think the pandemic is probably why we stayed together as long as we did. So that pandemic was tough.
Kerry Diamond:
It was. You met the new Chris online?
Sophia Roe:
I did. I met him on a dating app.
Kerry Diamond:
For the folks out there who are trying to navigate all that, what app?
Sophia Roe:
I met him on Raya, which sounds really silly, but listen, it's maybe not cool to say you met your partner on a dating app, but not only did we meet, we fell deeply and madly in love with each other. I was 35, he was 37. I don't know, he's just a completely different guy than me, so quiet. He's quiet and tall and sails and is a math architect guy and I'm just a mess. I don't sail. Okay. I have no interest. Do you see this hair? Honey, I'm not sailing. We're very different, but we're also just aligned in all the ways that we need to. And I don't know. If you're a dating app girly, whoever you are, it can work if you want it to.
Kerry Diamond:
What do you think young Soph would make of all of this?
Sophia Roe:
Oh, she wouldn't even believe it. She would think it was so cool. That would be the word she'd use. 12-year-old me would be like, I just want to grow up and be cool. I'm pretty cool I think. I think she'd be pretty happy about it. I think she'd like my haircut. She'd love my partner, she'd love our house. She'd love that I chose a really tactile thing to do. Even when I'm not in the kitchen, I still have a really physical job and I think she'd like that, so I'm proud of her.
Kerry Diamond:
Speaking of your job, you have such a unique job today. You couldn't have even have dreamed about a job like this because it doesn't exist.
Sophia Roe:
No. It doesn't.
Kerry Diamond:
And even when I said to you, is there one word you use? You were like, "No, I wish there were." Can you tell folks in your own words what your job is and what you do for a living?
Sophia Roe:
So I have a lot of jobs. It depends on where we're at. Sometimes I'm a host, sometimes I'm hosting something.
Kerry Diamond:
You just did that series for Toast.
Sophia Roe:
That's right. So sometimes I'm a host on camera.
Kerry Diamond:
Toast, I should say the restaurant software and not the fashion brand.
Sophia Roe:
That's right. Thank you for that. Sometimes I'm hosting on camera, sometimes I'm writing or producing on the back end, could be culinary programming. Sometimes I'm just chef Soph, sometimes I'm consultant Soph, who's hiring other teams of chefs to make a larger project happen. Sometimes I'm just writer Soph, and I just get to interview really cool people and write about it. Sometimes I'm in my studio construction hat Soph lately because I'm renovating my studio. And also having a partner who's a woodworker, I feel I'm looking at toe kicks and cool finishes. I feel like I'm so into that now, which is pretty awesome. There's other times where I feel like I'm speaking where it's something motivational, but I have a lot of jobs. I will say I don't feel like that's uncommon anymore. I think most people are multi-hyphenate these days. I think you kind of have to be, if you want to succeed in any given field, particularly in the culinary field. I'm culinary producing. Sometimes I'm food styling. It really just depends.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, I think it's very hard to do just one thing anymore.
Sophia Roe:
That's right.
Kerry Diamond:
Even if you want to.
Sophia Roe:
That's right. I'll tell you, Kerry, sometimes I really do just want to be chef Soph. I think that's the thing. I kind of long for that. There's a sense of privacy to that that I really like. It's nice to just go eight, 10 hours not speaking sometimes. In a kitchen, you can do that. You can't really do that with any of those other jobs.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk revenue streams. I know folks are always curious how culinary creatives make money, and you mentioned a bunch of those things. How do you make money these days? Are you cool talking about that?
Sophia Roe:
Totally. I feel like more people should be cool talking about it. A thing I want to say is stop doing things for free. You're messing it up for everybody. If you want to have an event, you want to feed 50 people, I don't care if it's seated, I don't care if it's standing. I don't care if you have refrigeration on location or we need to load in a kitchen off-site. You got to have money if you want that. I am upset when I see creators who don't consult with people who've been doing this a really long time on budgets because you're messing it up. Okay. You shouldn't be doing that stuff for $1,000-
Kerry Diamond:
Or free.
Sophia Roe:
Or free.
Kerry Diamond:
Going to out Romilly, who is part of a group that you work with. We love Romilly. She was our intern. She did some event one night, and I was at the event. I happened to drive. And I said, "Do you need a ride?" And she said, "Oh my God, I would love that." She did the event for free. They didn't give her any budget for anything, so the two of us were schlepping all the stuff she needed to prepare this food for this party up the stairs of her apartment building. And I was like, "Babe, you got to start to ask for money for these things." And fortunately, now she has a good manager who helps her with that.
Sophia Roe:
Exactly. That's not uncommon. I hear those stories all the time. And listen, I used to do it, too. I've been around. I think there's a lot of people who think I'm a little younger than I am. I'm not. I'm 36. I look it and feel it more every day and that's a blessing. I'm grateful for that. I'm also a very pregnant me, so I'm a lot fuller and thicker than I used to be. Also a blessing. I feel like if there's one piece of advice I'd give any private chef who's getting asked to do events or whatever, talk to me, talk to people who have been doing this before Instagram. Talk to the OGs who have been on Instagram since 2012. We'll tell you that, no, you should not be doing that for $1,100. You, A, deserve your own fee, but B, food costs money. Art costs money. These beautiful experiences cost money, rentals cost money. All of this stuff costs money.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. But you do have to have the right expectations.
Sophia Roe:
That's right. That's right.
Kerry Diamond:
If you haven't done something before, you can't expect to be paid the same as someone who's done it a lot.
Sophia Roe:
You start small. Yeah. Of course, listen, you're not going to get $50K to feed 50 people, but you also shouldn't be doing it for free. I'd say there's a line and it's not even that fine. You really stand your ground.
Kerry Diamond:
And you know who else we should talk to while we're talking about this is the people on the other side who are paying the creatives.
Sophia Roe:
That's right.
Kerry Diamond:
You know what makes me crazy? I'll say, "What's your budget?" And they'll say, "Well, what can you do this for?" That makes me crazy.
Sophia Roe:
Me too.
Kerry Diamond:
When I was the head of PR for Lancôme, I would say we have $35,000 or whatever it was. What can you do?
Sophia Roe:
That's what you say. That's what you say. And I'm telling you right now, you come to me with a $35K budget, babe, we can get you whatever you want. We can get you Tiffany's. You want 1,000 donuts in Tiffany blue. We'll do that for you. We'll figure that out. You know what I mean? That's the thing, too, is as cooks, we are inherently problem solvers. That's what we do. We anticipate the oven will break. We already have a backup. We already know a guy who knows a guy who knows three girls who can get this done. So I think that also just in the ecosystem, depending on what you want to do, if you want to be the girly out there who's just doing events every single night, then you can maybe take a lower budget because you're doing it so much.
Kerry Diamond:
You've got a team.
Sophia Roe:
Exactly, exactly. I think for me, yes, in terms of how I make money, yes. Sometimes it's events, sometimes it's consulting, sometimes it's on-camera stuff. There's content creation. That's definitely not going anywhere. I would be wary about all eggs in one basket, just for someone who's really looking to make it their career. I'm really excited. I'm launching my YouTube in November. I'm very hyped about it because I feel like YouTube is cool because you really get to own it and control it and do it the way that you want to do it. It's definitely harder to grow, but I'm a long-form content girly. My biggest thing that I can't stand in the last four years of social media is I can't teach you how to cook in 90 seconds. You didn't learn how to do anything-
Kerry Diamond:
90 seconds?
Sophia Roe:
Yeah, 90 seconds.
Kerry Diamond:
Some of them on TikTok are like 30 seconds. Yeah, forget it.
Sophia Roe:
Yeah, I can't. That's why all my content looks like a music video, because that's all I can really do. All I can do is make this look cool because I can't actually teach you how to do anything. What I love so much about the Inas of the world, if we're talking about, for me, who is legendary, she's troubleshooting with you. The reason why this happens is because your butter is not cold. Or the reason why this didn't work the way that you wanted it to is because x, y, x. We have that. It's so missing now, and I'm worried that this new generation of creators, they don't know who their heroes are. I love that your hero is like Nara Smith, that's great, but you need to know who the legends are.
Kerry Diamond:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I've watched so many things on either TikTok or Instagram, and I'm like, that does not work. There's no way what you just made is edible.
Sophia Roe:
That's right.
Kerry Diamond:
And I worry what it's imprinting on generations of people who don't cook. But just back to the sponsor thing, sponsors, you would cut down so much back and forth if you just said what your number is and what you wanted immediately instead of negotiating back and forth 100 times.
Sophia Roe:
Yes. Also, time is money. And also just to help you to save you time as a sponsor, because I think you got to get this event done. And so if we're going back and forth on all this stuff, just let me know because maybe it's no. And also don't play around with availability. If you know you're not available, just say you're not available. Just say it at the beginning. Don't have a scarcity mindset about it. Sometimes you try to fit that square peg and that round hole. Don't do that. If you know you're not available and you can't pull it off, just say no.
Kerry Diamond:
I once had an agent say to me, “No is the second-best answer.” That's right. The worst answer in the world?
Sophia Roe:
That's right, yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Is maybe.
Sophia Roe:
Oh, that's true. I'm like, yes, because then you're nailed. Then you have to do it.
Kerry Diamond:
Yes is number one, no is number two, maybe worst.
Sophia Roe:
That tracks.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. Speaking of cooking and teaching people how to cook, folks might not realize you went to culinary school.
Sophia Roe:
I sure did. I am a culinary school dropout. Everyone. I went to CIA on the West Coast, which if I could do it again-
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, you went to Greystone?
Sophia Roe:
Uh-huh. And if I could do it again, I would have just gone... You know what it was? This is so Florida of me.
Kerry Diamond:
Because you were an East Coast girl? How'd you wind up all the way out there?
Sophia Roe:
Because I was terrified of this New York weather. Because I thought, oh, New York, it's cold. I don't want to do that. Not knowing that St. Helena is freezing, by the way. Als,o just like what? That is freezing. Healdsburg, it's like 30 degrees. It's freezing. I don't know. I remember being freezing all the time.
Kerry Diamond:
It's not always freezing, people. However-
Sophia Roe:
It's not, but it's-
Kerry Diamond:
It's in Napa Valley, if you're wondering where that is.
Sophia Roe:
Exactly. And San Francisco, it's chilly. I don't know. To me, I felt I was freezing all the time. It's just like a young person would make a decision on what coast, what school they were going to based on weather. Separate from that CIA, West Coast, a little bit more of a wine school. I wasn't really into that and interested in that. If I could do it again, I would've just gone on the East Coast. But I ended up dropping out. I was like, this is expensive, A. B, I was reckless. I was young. I had an attitude, and I'm super honest about that. I think that at the beginning of my career, I was really reckless. I probably should have spent that money on culinary school on some therapy. But I burned some bridges, and I think since then we've kind of made up. But a lot of times, people are like, how did you do this James Beard? How did you do that? And I'm like, you guys don't know. I was a chef, chef.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, you worked in restaurants, you were a private chef.
Sophia Roe:
I did. That's right. Back then, you would have been fired on site if you so much as touched your phone. It was unheard of. In fact, you would have been guilty of somebody saying you were stealing recipes. Somebody saying you were taking photos, why are you taking photos of our plates? Other restaurants are going to see it. It was a different era. So now it's a day in the life at culinary school. I see stuff like at Eleven Madison. Day in the life at Eleven Madison. I'm like, wait, they're letting people do that now?
Kerry Diamond:
And you staged there.
Sophia Roe:
I did.
Kerry Diamond:
Which I didn't know.
Sophia Roe:
I did stage there. There was no phone. There was no phone. No, you were in trouble. But that was a different era, though. I don't long for that because it was also very rough. I was cute. I was riding my bike in New York with my cookbooks in my backpack, and I was obsessed. But I didn't have anything to compare myself to. I wasn't on social media. It wasn't the same way, so I was just obsessed with meringue, and I would just make it over and over until it got perfect. I didn't get in this tizzy now, where I think creators now online are like, I don't know what to do. And I'm like, it's all you do is take in everything. And so you just do nothing because you don't know what to do.
So I think a piece of advice I would give for people is not necessarily going to culinary school. I wouldn't say that, but I would say get a job or do some stages at some restaurants, because not just the skills. You get the community, you get the chef friends. I feel lucky to have a lot of chef friends and I think it's hard to get those if your whole culinary career is online.
Kerry Diamond:
You were a private chef before it was a trendy thing to do on TikTok.
Sophia Roe:
I was. I miss being a private chef.
Kerry Diamond:
Really.
Sophia Roe:
I do miss being a private chef.
Kerry Diamond:
Why? It's a tough life. Well, it is and it is not as tough as some restaurants. I mean, my ex-partner was a private chef for a billionaire, so it was very interesting, but it can be very solitary, even though pay is better than restaurants.
Sophia Roe:
I like getting someone's palate just down. I love winning every night. It's not just the menu, you just do the menu and it's like the chef's menu. It's like someone else's menu. You're a chef de partie or you're at your fish station and you do the same fish set every night at a restaurant, which is a vibe. It's so cool. Love it. Especially if it's like you enjoy the chef that you work for and you enjoy their palate. But when you work for four people, you really get to figure out who they are, and I think that's cool. I think it's cool to know that your boss really loves spicy food, but his wife doesn't. Or their kids love when you make pizza, you get them involved. I do think that there's something kind of cool and fun about it. Again-
Kerry Diamond:
You do love problem-solving.
Sophia Roe:
I do. Yeah. I like when everybody's allergic to peanuts, but they want peanut butter and jelly sandwiches or something. I don't know. It is just fun. There's pressure because you can't blame it on anyone. If the meal doesn't work out, then it's your fault, not my favorite. That said, when I was a private chef, it was very different. You were paid so well to be elusive. You were paid so well to be private. I don't have one client that I work for that would allow me to prop my phone up and video what I was doing.
Kerry Diamond:
I thought every private chef signed an NDA.
Sophia Roe:
I mean, I have NDAs for life that I can't talk about.
Kerry Diamond:
That's why I'm always surprised when I see it on Instagram and TikTok.
Sophia Roe:
Same, same. But I think it's just a different era now. The one thing I'd say about private chefs is you do a different job than I did. I don't think we're the same because I wasn't doing brand deals while I was a private chef. I was working from six in the morning until 8:00 PM, six days a week. Make no qualms about it. I was staff. There was no, I'm a star. That was not my reality of being a private chef.
Kerry Diamond:
Because the first word in the job description is private.
Sophia Roe:
Private.
Kerry Diamond:
People seem to forget the private part of private chefing.
Sophia Roe:
That's right.
Kerry Diamond:
You have your own culinary studio today. It's called Apartment Miso, and there is a new Apartment Miso in the works. Is this new space going to be a workplace, a kitchen, or more than that?
Sophia Roe:
It's going to be both those things. It's like my culinary office. Painters have paint studios. This is like a culinary studio, so it's a place for me to test out everything I need to test.
Kerry Diamond:
Will you do dinners there?
Sophia Roe:
But yes, it's large enough to be open to the public. So the first iteration was so small. During the pandemic, it was like a residential building that the landlords were trying to rent out. Very small. It's like maybe 500 square feet, just big enough, and had a separate sink, so I was still food safe compliant, but I mean it was tiny. I couldn't have anybody in there. This space is 1,100 square feet, it's humongous, but I, of course, would pick a space to do a culinary studio that had no kitchen. It has no kitchen. What? So we have to put a kitchen. And when I mean no kitchen, I mean like plumbers, we had to build in a water line. We're having to do everything.
Kerry Diamond:
At least your partner's handy.
Sophia Roe:
Oh, tell me about it.
Kerry Diamond:
Thank goodness.
Sophia Roe:
Are you kidding? This guy, I don't even need a general contractor because I have him, so it's amazing. It's been a journey. Hopefully in the fall, we'll be fully operational and not only be able to shoot YouTube there and have dinners, but potentially just give it to other people who need commissary kitchens. Commissary kitchens are so expensive, and it's my dream to just lend it to friends who need it. I have friends who just, they just need to make 100 of something.
Kerry Diamond:
And chefs coming to town who don't have a place. That's really beautiful.
Sophia Roe:
Yes, exactly. Just a community's jump-off.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you going to take a maternity leave?
Sophia Roe:
I am taking maternity leave. I have to. I'm begrudgingly. I'm like, do I need to? But I do. This kid is coming this summer and I've given myself, I was like, you are just not going to do anything for 40 days. So for 40 days, I'm just going to like, I don't know what I'm going to do. I guess I'm just going to feed this baby and try to sleep and cry.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you mind me asking what you're going to do for childcare?
Sophia Roe:
I'm not going to do childcare. I'm going to sling this baby with me everywhere. I would like to see if we can change the game for events and runway shows and things. I don't know why I can't just strap this baby to my body and just bring her to dinner.
Kerry Diamond:
You should be able to. A lot of women will write to me and say like, "Hey, can I bring a baby to this?" or whatever. And I'm like, "Please bring the baby." I think we need to normalize that. And I was going to say, I know some women bristle at the childcare questions because men don't necessarily get asked about that. But I do think that is strategic on the part of the patriarchy. I don't think they want us agitating for universal childcare.
Sophia Roe:
Oh, they don't. I mean my partner's got a lot more free time than I do. We've had to kind of double everything, so we live together, but we both have work studios. His is not safe for a baby. Okay.
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, you don't want the kid around saws and hammers and-
Sophia Roe:
No wood saws. No, no, no wood shops, no.
Kerry Diamond:
... and nails. Staple guns.
Sophia Roe:
But my studio is, and so I anticipate when there's content or when there's things to do, I'll just have the baby with me honestly as much as possible. So I got the handy-dandy pack and play thrown over my shoulder. I've got the map for all the subways that have elevators. I live in a four-floor walk-up and I work in a four-floor walk-up. We'll use a stroller when we can, but I don't know. I feel like legendary women have had children and made it work, so I'm going to have to do the same.
Kerry Diamond:
Maternal healthcare is of interest to you, of course. You're working with a prenatal nutrition company right now. Some of the Instagram posts that I've seen, you've talked about the racial disparities that exist in terms of prenatal care and care during labor and delivery. Can you share some of the things you've learned with our audience?
Sophia Roe:
Of course. I'm working with this company called Parallel. They don't just make maternity vitamins, although that is a huge, huge part of their SKUs. They have everything from probiotics, they have all of this stuff. Were we trying to get pregnant? We were trying to, not trying to. We were just like whatever about it. We weren't really sure how that was going to go because doctor language, they call me a geriatric pregnancy because anything over 35-
Kerry Diamond:
Folks might not realize that. That's bonkers.
Sophia Roe:
It's bonkers. Anything over 35 is considered a geriatric pregnancy. Got pregnant fairly quickly and then to my shock... And listen, I already knew the stats. I'm well aware that I'm a black girl. Okay? I'm well aware it's harder to do anything in the United States and in a lot of places globally when you're a Black person, particularly a Black female. Wow. I had no idea it was going to be so challenging for me to not only just find a good obstetrician, but the midwives, there's only so many of them. There's only so many doulas. They get yanked up. And it makes sense because midwives only have enough time to deliver so many babies. When I would bring up some of these stats to a potential obstetrician, I would bring up, as a Black woman, you're four times more likely to die of preeclampsia in the hospital. And they'd be like, "Okay, but out of how many women?" And I'm like, "That's your answer? That's your answer? Out of how many women?" You're not addressing me at all.
Kerry Diamond:
You should point out that even Serena Williams dealt with that.
Sophia Roe:
Oh, I actually said that. I actually said to a doctor that is not my doctor. I said, "If Serena Williams can almost die giving birth, I think this is a valid question. And I think you meeting my question with a weird stat is bizarre and doesn't make me feel comfortable and is, at best, evading my question." What are you going to do to have me not die in the hospital is a valid, fair question as I'm feeling nervous about childbirth. Then it's like I'm 10 weeks pregnant, 12 weeks pregnant, 14 weeks pregnant, almost 16 weeks pregnant and I still don't have care. So just the scarcity of it. Also, I'm a well-resourced person and I'm having a hard time finding care. Outside of all of that, too, feeding yourself when you're pregnant is Different, different.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. Tell us how. I'm so curious what you've been craving, not craving.
Sophia Roe:
At the very beginning of being pregnant, I'll tell you it was fine. I didn't even realize I was pregnant. I thought, there's no way I'm pregnant. This is impossible for me to be pregnant. It was really funny. Quick little aside, I was in Hawaii with Chris, and this man asked me to marry him, and I had no idea that was going to happen. So that happens. I leave Hawaii, we do a stop in L.A., and I'm feeling a little funny, just a little different. My coffee smelled like raw meat. I know that sounds so, so strange, but my coffee smelled so weird and I thought, this is bizarre. I thought it's because I'm nervous about the election. Because I was flying back, I was rushing back from Hawaii on November 4th, because November 5th was the big day for a few reasons. Election Day, Kamala, but also it's my birthday.
I'm like, this is going to be the best. So I get back to New York. I'm so hyped, you guys. It did not go, obviously did not go the way that we wanted. It did not go to plan. But on that same day, I find out not only did we not get Kamala, it's my birthday, but I found out I was pregnant. So I was like, this is the most confusing. I want to be happy about this. I'm confused about what does this mean for women, but I'm going to be a mom now. It was a very confusing time. And so I think sometimes when I think about the food anxieties I had, I wonder if they were pregnancy or if they were just like anxiety, truly, because it was a very hard time. Two days of nausea maybe. I feel very lucky. I got very lucky with how sick I felt, but I started this mono meal thing.
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, what's a mono meal?
Sophia Roe:
Kerry, I can't eat an assembled beautiful meal. If I want chips and salsa, that is all I'm having for dinner. I'm talking about jars of chips and salsa, and then that's dinner. Some people drink a 16-ounce smoothie. Oh, no, no. I will have four of those. That and then the next day, I don't ever want to have a smoothie again. It was very strange.
Kerry Diamond:
How long did that last for?
Sophia Roe:
Oh, I still do that. I'm doing that today. I got salsa waiting for me at home, you guys. This baby is made of tomatoes. I don't know. It's crazy.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my God. She's our little tomato girl summer.
Sophia Roe:
It is wild.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my gosh. Food totally is your jam and it's spring. All the beautiful produce is just starting to hit the farmer's markets. I know how much you love farmer's markets. Anything you're picking up for those mono meals?
Sophia Roe:
Oh yes. I am obsessed with anything onions, all the spring onions. I know everybody goes nuts for the ramps. I'm making a lot of butters right now, Kerry, compound butters.
Kerry Diamond:
We love butter.
Sophia Roe:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Going to Ireland next week with Kerrygold.
Sophia Roe:
That's right.
Kerry Diamond:
Bring on the butter.
Sophia Roe:
So exciting, so excited for you. I went to Ireland about a month and a half ago and I'm like, why'd I come back?
Kerry Diamond:
I love it.
Sophia Roe:
It's just the best.
Kerry Diamond:
I might not come back.
Sophia Roe:
It's amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
It might be my last interview.
Sophia Roe:
I am obsessed with onions. I'm obsessed with peas. I'm one of those people that just dies so hard for a good crispity, crunchity pea. That is a jam for me. I know that it's like people kind of love or hate peas. I'm not so hip on the asparagus and the radishes. I prefer a radish cooked, which I know is not a popular way to eat a radish, but it should be because cooked radishes are delicious. If you've never braised a radish, you should do it. Delicious. So good. I'm really, really, really into all that finally, you just get these delicate, delicate leaves. I saw an article about... God, I don't know who did it. I don't know if it was the New York Times, I can't remember, about when did salads get so big? I'm obsessed because, for me, the best salad is like a hand salad. The leaves aren't cut, you just eat it with your hands. I love that. No knife or fork.
Kerry Diamond:
I love to eat a salad with my hands. Best salads though, California.
Sophia Roe:
Oh, I know. They know how to do a salad. That's always been the case, don't you think?
Kerry Diamond:
True. I was just in Portland, though. They did have some great salads in Portlan,d and I had these tiny turnips that you would've loved in this farro salad. They were like candy.
Sophia Roe:
Yum. When you go through winter, especially in New York, you can't look at another potato. You just can't.
Kerry Diamond:
That is true.
Sophia Roe:
And you know what's crazy is every year they come around in November, and you're thrilled. You can't wait to get a butternut squash, but by the time of February you're like, I'm through with this.
Kerry Diamond:
I should say shout out to Cafe Olli which we went to in Portland. Great place. Great pizza. Okay, we're going to plow through a few questions because we're running out of time. What's up with your book?
Sophia Roe:
Oh, it's happening. It's happening. I'm finally doing it. Nicole, I love you. I have the best book agent in the world. She's been so patient with me. I don't know. It takes your whole life to write your first book, so it's coming and hopefully you like it.
Kerry Diamond:
I have no doubt that I will like it. Did you act in a movie last year?
Sophia Roe:
No, but that had been cool.
Kerry Diamond:
You acted in something last year.
Sophia Roe:
Did I? I don't think I did last year. I was in some commercials.
Kerry Diamond:
Year before?
Sophia Roe:
I've definitely been in some commercials.
Kerry Diamond:
I mean, I know you're a supermodel now, but I could have sworn I saw you acted in something.
Sophia Roe:
Definitely not a supermodel.
Kerry Diamond:
Definitely not a supermodel. But you are being shot. I mean, we'll talk about our photo shoot in a second. But a lot of people are shooting you while you're pregnant, and I think it's so great to see pregnancy normalized by the fashion world.
Sophia Roe:
Me too. And these fashion teams are doing really, really well. Not everybody. And I had little side conversations with like, hey, it's not even about pregnancy. It's just different bodies. This is how you should dress them. You should make us feel as good. And I feel qualified because I've been skinny and small my whole life, so I know how skinny small people are treated on set. And so I know that now as a bigger person because I'm pregnant, or for whatever reason, I know that it's not equal, but it has been really cool. It's hard to be eight months pregnant. You look different. Your face is different. Being pregnant, your feet are bigger, your nose, stuff happens. Sometimes I look in the mirror and I'm like, what is that? But it's like whatever. It's all part of the process. It's cool. I am really happy that we're accepting all different types of bodies, even pregnant ones.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, you're always beautiful to me, so you know that. And thank you for doing the Cherry Bombe cover.
Sophia Roe:
Yes, of course.
Kerry Diamond:
Our first ever Power issue, and you were speaking about Kamala earlier. When we picked our themes last year, I think I might have told you this, I thought that Kamala, like you, was going to be our president. So I was like, we're going to do a power issue because women are going to be in charge. It's going to be a whole new day.
Sophia Roe:
Oh, Kerry.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh. But I was like, you know what? We still believe in women and all different kinds of power.
Sophia Roe:
Soft power, baby.
Kerry Diamond:
Hard power, soft power. Yep. So we shot you with a Brooklyn Botanic Garden. I sadly was not there because I had to go on a business trip. It broke my heart. But the pictures are beautiful. You sent me the sweetest voice note. Thank you for that.
Sophia Roe:
I know. It was awesome. Jennifer was amazing. It's always so wonderful to see her. Jennifer Livingston. She shoots all the covers for Cherry Bombe. She feels like family to me because she shot me back in 2017.
Kerry Diamond:
Right. Second cover. You're the only person to have two solo covers.
Sophia Roe:
Oh, well, I might feel and I'm honored. Imagine that. I do a lot of different shoots for a lot of different reasons. Editorials, sometimes I'm in them, sometimes I'm not. But I'm on set a lot. And that set was so beautiful. It was awesome to just not be in a studio. We were outside. It was a stunning, gorgeous Brooklyn day, followed by a bunch of days of rain. So it was really a blessing.
Kerry Diamond:
We got the very end of cherry blossoms.
Sophia Roe:
You nailed it, Kerry, because-
Kerry Diamond:
And the lilacs.
Sophia Roe:
When we were there, a lot of the team said, "I think we're going to lose the blossoms because we've got a lot of rain coming." So the timing couldn't have been better.
Kerry Diamond:
The whole team was amazing. Your team, our team-
Sophia Roe:
We made it happen.
Kerry Diamond:
Thank you to everybody who made that happen. Special thanks to the Brooklyn Botanic Garden folks. The roses will be in bloom soon there, and they have an epic rose garden, so folks should go check it out. Okay. Folks might not realize how much you love music. You studied music before you went to culinary school.
Sophia Roe:
I did. It's true.
Kerry Diamond:
What are you listening to these days?
Sophia Roe:
Oh man, I'm such a big grunge head. I feel like this baby is just like a fuzz rock, krautrock, Lilliput, Bikini Kill, Smashing Pumpkins baby. And people don't know. Sometimes I'll be in my studio listening to music and we'll have photographers or whoever in there because shooting. And they're just like, huh, this girl's just, she's just listening to Ty Segall at full blast. I definitely, I am a little folky girl, too. I love a Jessica Pratt moment or an Alice Phoebe Lou. But I think for whatever reason, I am tapped into that powerful kind of badassness. I think it's so important that we stay that way. That's kind of always been my jam. I don't know. I think the tattoos and the hair kind of give it away. I think it's not that shocking. I'm like, is it that shocking?
Kerry Diamond:
Do you have a motto or a mantra?
Sophia Roe:
Yeah, I think I say all the time. I'm happy. How are you? I think I say it 100 times a day. You say it until you believe it. Life is funny. You can be really miserable through it, or you can choose not to be.
Kerry Diamond:
And you've seen lots of different sides of life.
Sophia Roe:
Oh man. And I've been lots of different people. I know what it's like to be a jerk. In fact, when I come across jerks in life, when I come across yucky people in life, I know they just hurt. They just hurt. I love them. Anybody in your life who's just a total jerk, when you're ready, just love them because they're going through it. And I've been that person before. I've definitely been a jerk. I've been not nice to be around. And now it feels really good to be a nice person to be around.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you good at trusting your gut?
Sophia Roe:
Yes. My gut is essential.
Kerry Diamond:
Were you born that way?
Sophia Roe:
I was born that way. Protection. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. I'm going to ask you our last question that we always ask everyone. If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Sophia Roe:
Oh, this is easy. David Zilber. We'd have so much to talk about. I love him deeply. David Zilber, what is he? I mean, he's an incredible chef, incredible fermenter. I call him a food scientist. He's a big mycology head, big sourdough bacteria boy. He's from Toronto, but him and his partner live in Copenhagen. He and Rene Redzepi single-handedly took Noma to this amazing place. I won't say single-handedly, they had a lot of help, but he's just the coolest. We did Toronto's “Top Chef Canada” last year.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, fun. With Eden Grinshpan.
Sophia Roe:
That's right. And that was awesome. And yeah, he's just the greatest. I think him or Matty Matheson. Just because Matty's so much fun.
Kerry Diamond:
You like the Canadians?
Sophia Roe:
I do like Canadians, turns out. But they're just a good time. I think Matty's just a good energy, good time guy. And I think I would need that on a desert island. Just positive energy.
Kerry Diamond:
Fun people. All right. You'd be cooking, fermenting, and laughing with them all. Soph, that's it for now. Oh my God. I could talk to you forever.
Sophia Roe:
Yeah, we'll do it.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. You'll come back.
Sophia Roe:
Of course.
Kerry Diamond:
Post-baby.
Sophia Roe:
That's right.
Kerry Diamond:
Yes. Bring the baby.
Sophia Roe:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
We've never had somebody with a baby on air.
Sophia Roe:
Oh, that'd be awesome. Maybe she can even coo a little. That'd be cute.
Kerry Diamond:
Answer a few questions. Soph, you're the Bombe.
Sophia Roe:
You're the bomb. Thank you, Kerry.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you so much to Sophia Roe. Be sure to check out the new issue of Cherry Bombe magazine with Sophia on the cover. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Special thanks to the team at Good Studio in Brooklyn. Joseph Hazan is the studio engineer at Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center. Our producers are Tarkor Zehn, Catherine Baker, and Jenna Sadhu. And our editorial coordinator is Sophie Kies. Thanks for listening, everybody. You are the Bombe.