Stacey Mei Yan Fong Transcript
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Hi, everyone. You're listening to The Future Of Food Is You, a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Abena Anim-Somuah, and each week I talk to emerging talents in the food world and they share what they're up to as well as their dreams and predictions or what's ahead. As for me, I'm the founder of The Eden Place, a community that's all about gathering people intentionally around food. I love this new generation of chefs, bakers, and creatives making their way in the worlds of food, drink, media, and tech.
Today's guest is Stacey Mei Yan Fong. Stacey is a Brooklyn-based baker and author whose debut cookbook, 50 Pies 50 States is coming out in June. Stacey is also the general manager at Big Night, the buzzy food wear store in Green Point, Brooklyn. I'm excited to chat with Stacey about her transition from design to food, why she picked pie as her specialty, and the process of writing her debut cookbook.
For you podcast lovers out there, here's a recommendation. You need to listen to Radio Cherry Bombe, The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network's classic show. Each Monday, Radio Cherry Bombe host Kerry Diamond, founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine, is joined by some of the most interesting food personalities in the biz from folks like Ina Garten, Hetty McKinnon, and Claire Saffitz. Don't miss the number one female-focused food podcast around. Tune in wherever you get your podcasts and make sure to subscribe while you're there. You can also find the transcripts on cherrybombe.com.
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Now, let's check in with today's guest. Stacey, how's it going?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Pretty good. Pretty chill.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Amazing. Thanks for joining us on The Future Of Food Is You podcast.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Honor is all mine.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You were born in Singapore, but lived in Hong Kong and Indonesia.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yes, that is correct.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How did food show up in your childhood?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I come from a Chinese family. In a Chinese family, it's not very emotional. There's not a lot of hugging and there's not a lot of, "I love you’s” or "You're doing great," it's mostly food-based. My grandparents and my family would always be like, "Have you eaten yet?" That's their way of showing, "I care about you," or a really nice plate of cut fruit. Then you're like, "Okay, cool. My parents love me.” Even though I came from a very tumultuous household, at 6:00 p.m., there was always food on the table. That's when it was dinnertime and everybody ate together and didn't talk much, but just being together was what meant the most.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Were there specific foods that just are so connected to your childhood?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I was born in Singapore, but I grew up in Hong Kong. Whenever we would travel back to Singapore and eat chili crab, you're sitting in a hawker center, it's 85 degrees, you're sweating. Everybody's eating this crab together and it's such a communal event and you're dipping the fried dough in the sauce. Just getting lost in the sauce with your family while you're eating is just the best.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So you then moved to Savannah, Georgia where you go to Savannah College of Design. What was the food scene like there? Were you able to find foods that reminded you of the different places that you grew up in?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
My move to Savannah was a really big one. I moved from Hong Kong to Savannah, Georgia because I wanted a really, really big change. There weren't really any foods that reminded me of home, but then there were foods that slowly became part of what I feel like is home to me. So in Savannah, I got introduced to grits and collared greens and barbecue and chicken fried steak biscuits, so many biscuits. I ate so many biscuits. That now also has become food that reminds me of home. Savannah was my first home in the U.S. When I feel a little lost, if I eat a hot bowl of grits, I feel a little more grounded. I feel it's like the same way I feel when I eat a hot bowl of rice, that same homecoming feeling.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Are you a cook your grits with water or cook your grits with milk kind of girl?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I'm a cook your grits with water, mainly because I'm very lactose untalented, but I don't care. So I try and do grits with water or broth, then I add just a ton of cheese. That's my compromise.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You're lactose untalented? I've never heard that before.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I like that better than intolerant.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. Yeah. You just made that up?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yeah. Yeah. I'm just not great at it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I was like, "Is this a new thing that no one told me about." You went to SCAD [Savannah College of Art and Design] and what did you study while you were there?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
When I went to SCAD, I studied fibers, which is textiles and accessory design. At the time, accessory design wasn't a major yet, so made my own own major where I took everything I learned in fibers, which was amazing. It's like screen printing, weaving, knitting, all that good textural stuff, making repeat patterns. Honestly, going to SCAD was the best. I cannot recommend it higher.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so beautiful. Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Then in accessory design, we learned shoemaking, handbag making. It was just honestly the best. My final collection at SCAD was a 13-piece luggage collection. So I did all the patterns for it, printed all the fabric, and then made all the pieces and it was my ode to traveling just my whole life. Now traveling is kind of a slog. It's not very glamorous anymore, and it used to be so amazing. So my mood board for that collection was when my grandparents on, I think it was their 40th or 50th wedding anniversary, went on a cruise on the QE2 [Queen Elizabeth 2 ocean liner]. It was like my grandma had all her hard suitcases and it was such an event. I feel like now we take travel for granted. We just find the easiest way to do everything when sometimes it's nice to just glamorize everything a little bit.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. So when you finished at SCAD, you then went into accessory design and you worked at brands like JCPenney and Nike brands along with some others. What was that experience like creating stuff for brands that are such household names in the U.S.?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
That was such a wonderful opportunity for me where when I left college, I had an internship and a job waiting for me in New York. What a dream. It wasn't really scary for me to do that move because New York is so similar to Hong Kong where I grew up. A lot of my friends from SCAD, we all moved up here together. So it was like, "Okay, we're all going back to the big city," or whatever. When I first moved to the city, I worked for Foley + Corrina, which is a smaller contemporary brand. Just getting to work in so many different levels of fashion in accessory design is so exciting because I always used to say, "Your weight fluctuates, your dress size changes, your pants size changes, but you can always buy a handbag, whatever you want, handbag is a thing that lasts."
Pants go in and out or dresses go in and out of style or you don't really like it anymore, but people make investments into their handbags or they talk about bags that they love for years and years. That's why I focused all my things into handbag design because I just thought, "Oh, it's so nice that you get to design and make something for someone that's going to last them a really, really long time. They're going to be really attached to it and really attached to the way that they organize it too, to make it work best for them."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so awesome. Were you always a crafty kid or was crafting something that was always a part of your life and that's what inspired you to go to SCAD?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yeah, I've always been a crafty kid. My dad notoriously did not let me and my sisters play with Barbie dolls. He thought that they promoted really terrible body image, which honestly, Papa Fong, he knows what's up.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Shout out to Papa Fong.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Shout out to Papa Fong. So we played a lot with arts and crafts kits, so all I did was draw all day or do nail art, do shell art. I've always found fun, creative outlets for everything, so I knew I always wanted to end up in design some way because my dad worked in the hotel industry, and he let me meet everybody at each step of how you even, I guess, put a hotel together, interior design, designing the uniforms, every single creative process. He's very open to it with me and my sisters. We talked about it all the time, and I just really appreciated all the effort it takes to produce the thing that you might necessarily take for granted, and that's how I ended up in design.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
While you're working in design, you start a pie project that you call 50 Pies 50 States. When don't you start working on this?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
So I stared working on this in 2015, 2016.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
So at that time, I'd been in the city for a while and felt very lost in the sauce, to put it lightly.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Lost in the sauce, adult version.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Adult version, lost in the sauce, adult version 2.0. During my time in America, all my friends would go home to their childhood homes and they had all these family traditions that I didn't really have. Also, my family lives so far away, so I would spend all these holidays at my friend's family's homes. I was like, "What is my home? What does home mean to me?" During that time, I was on a work visa, and it was getting to the point where it was like, "I can't apply for any more work visas. Am I going to go home to Hong Kong or Singapore, or should I try applying for my permanent residency?" At my job? At that time, I talked to them about it and they were like, "Well, we'll help you apply for your permanent residency."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so amazing.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Which is so incredible that they were willing to take that chance on me because it's a very laborious process. It's very complicated.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Very expensive.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Very expensive, lots of paperwork. I was like, "Okay. That was a decision that I got to make for myself. This is my home. I want to be here. All my friends that are here are my family, and this is the life that I've chosen for myself." Any move prior to this have been for college or my dad's job. This was a decision I got to solely make on my own. During that time when I felt very untethered, my best friend, Patrick, bought me the Four & Twenty Blackbirds cookbook for Christmas, and I did the Julie & Julia situation where I was like, "Okay, if I give myself this project, I'm going to bake every single pie in this cookbook."
It is my favorite pie shop in the city. I'm just going to do this, and it'll give me something to ground myself," when day-to-day fashion just kind of felt a little meh. That led me to thinking while I was applying for my permanent residency, what is something that can tether me to why I actually want to be here in the first place? 'Cause the paperwork can be very laborious. So I was like, "Okay, I'm going to bake a pie for every state in America, and I'm going to give that pie to someone that I know from that state," because the best way you can learn about a place is food. Right?
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Amen to that.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yep.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
You travel, you go sit in a dive bar somewhere, you start chatting to someone, you ask them where they eat lunch or where they go to dinner, and that's the best place to start. So I was like, "Okay, let's do pie because to me, pie is the most American thing."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
American thing. Wow.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Also, for me, I grew up in Hong Kong and was born in Singapore, which were both British colonies, and so for me, pie was more of a savory thing, not a sweet thing. Then when I moved here, I was like, "Oh, my God, there's fruit pies and ice cream pies and custard pies," and it's just honestly, pie is the limit here. I just found that so incredible. So what better way than to find my journey home through pie and also explore the flavors of each state, because honestly, it could be 50 different countries. Each state is so different and so personal and has such wonderful regional cuisine, it was hard to capture it all in one tiny 10-inch circle that's a pie, but I tried my best.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yeah, and the exploration was wonderful and very delicious.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's amazing. So you started in 2016, and when did you make the 50th pie?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I made the 50th pie in 2021.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Whoa.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Five years.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
A lot of people were like, "Why didn't you do it faster?" It was my project. When I started, I was still working full-time in fashion, so I'd really only do a pie a month because I wanted each pie to get the treatment that it deserved, the research that it deserved. Then during the pandemic, I took a pause on my 50 Pies project because I couldn't travel. I couldn't physically see the person that I was going to give the pie to. I took a pause on that because I didn't want to half-ass the last six pies, the last pie, I did them alphabetically because-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yeah, because-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I know.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's awesome.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
50 pies is a lot. So when I started the project, I only ever thought about my life three pies at a time, and that's how I think about my life now. It's a more digestible amount.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, and pies not an easy task. I feel like I love to bake, but pie was the one thing where I was like, that was a level two type of activity or intermediate activity, if you want to call it. How did you think about the pie dough recipe that you used for your bases?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
So I took a riff on the Four & Twenty Blackbirds recipe, which is an iron-clad pie crust recipe, and yeah, pie crust is hard. It took me a solid five months to really figure it out, and it ended up becoming more of a touch and a feel thing. Is it too dry outside? Is it too humid? There's no exact amount of liquid. It totally depends on what the air is like, which sounds so hokey, but it's totally the truth. But I think what I really liked in design and what I really like in baking is getting lost in it. You're focused, and it's a fully active task that you're doing, and that's the only thing that you can think about is the pie that's in front of you. It cancels all the noise out.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What is the Four & Twenty Blackbirds recipe? Is it a all-butter pie crust?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
It's all butter.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Is it a short crust?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yeah, all butter. I'm a all butter girl. I've tried lard. I've tried many different fats, but I'm a butter girl.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. So you're cubing the butter, cold water, butter together-
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
... freeze, rollout?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Freeze, rollout. Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay, amazing. That's so fun. Then talk to me about the process in deciding and developing on the flavors, 'cause you are now working with 50 different flavor profiles. I'm sure some ingredients were easy to get, some ingredients were not. But what was it like developing all the different flavors, and how did you do your research?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
For each state, I always looked at if they had already a designated state fruit, state food or some regional cuisine that was definitely theirs. Then I like to make things difficult for myself, or I like to make-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Same.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
... things a little bit more complicated.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
She loves a challenge.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
She loves a challenge. She loves a challenge. So for example, Alabama, the state fruits are blackberries and peaches, and the state nut is pecans. So that pie built itself. Also, I was like, "You know what? It's the first pie. Let's just go with the flow." But then for certain states like Nevada, I was like, "What am I going to do for Nevada? How can I capture just-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Vegas in a pie?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Vegas in a pie. Right.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
So I had a hair-brained idea where I was like, "What if I made a pie that was like an all-you-can-eat buffet?" So then I started an Excel spreadsheet where I went down the strip, and I wrote down what were the common denominators between each of the casinos? All-you-can-eat buffets, and the common denominators were your prime rib, crab legs, shrimp cocktails, Caesar salad, cheesecakes. So I was like, "Okay."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
My stomach.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
So then I was like, "Okay, how can I make a pie into compartments that look like chaffing dishes of a buffet table?" I was like, "There are those cast iron biscuit pants that are separated into eight." So then my Vegas pie ended up being half savory, half sweet like an all-you-can-eat buffet.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Whoa.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Because pie is just a circle. It can be savor your sweet. It can be anything you want it to be.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Just like America, it is a metaphor.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's a melting pot of flavors.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
It is a melting pot of flavors.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
America and this home and this country can be what you want it to be and how you mold it and how you approach it. I feel like that's the joy of baking. Each state was its own individual task, and I really focused on that thing and also talking to the person that I was eventually going to give the pie to what is something that ties them to their home?
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so exciting. It's really beautiful that you were able to share the pies with people. How did you decide on the people to share them with and was it people you knew or people that you were getting to know in the process?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
It always started with someone that I knew from that state. Not only was this a project for myself to tether myself to this country, but also this was my grand, Nora Ephron, Nancy Meyers rom-com gesture to show my friends how much I love them. Because like I said before, coming from a Chinese household where your emotions are quite withholding, this was my way to show my friends that I love them in pie form. I didn't know anybody from South Dakota. I always chat to a bunch of friends and I'm like, "Hey, does anybody know anyone? I'd love to meet them. I'd love to talk to them."
My friend Matt, who got the Massachusetts pie, he had just done a graphic design project for a bunch of historians that lived in South Dakota. I was like, "Bingo, bango, let's go." So I started emailing them and they were like, "Do you want to come to Rapid City, South Dakota?" I was like, "Okay." So I got on a plane with my best friend Lauren, and I baked the pie for them. They were experts in Native Americans in the Black Hills of South Dakota. They told me about Sean Sherman, The Sioux Chef. So I read his cookbook cover to cover, and his recipes really influenced the pies for South Dakota. I've gotten to show the people that I know how much I love them, and I've also gotten to meet so many wonderful people because of the pie projects.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so awesome. For those of you who are listening, Sean Sherman is a Sioux chef from South Dakota, and he's also the founder of the Education Business and Catering Company, The Sioux Chef, as well as the nonprofit North American Traditional Indigenous Food Systems. So what was the most challenging pie to make? Every single state has a thing, especially food wise, flower wise, bird wise, but which pie was the one that probably took the most head space?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Oh, man. So I feel like Nevada was complicated, right?
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
There were so many bits and bobs. I think the pie that took the most head space for me was New York.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What? I thought that'd be the easiest one.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
So it was easy, it was easy, and it was hard because New York is my home. I've been here now for, ooh, it's my 13th year in the city.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yep.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
A real New Yorker.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
A real New Yorker, and how can I make this the most wonderful pie? Not that I'm playing favorites, but this city means so much to me, I wrote myself a letter when I was 15 that I was like, "I'm going to live in New York City and I'm going to buy a camel peacoat, and I'm going to buy an apartment where the elevator doors open into my loft apartment." So for New York, I was like, I knew it wanted to be an apple pie. I knew I wanted the top of the pie to be an Entenmann's Coffee Cake, the thick crumbs, because they were the first delivery service in the city. On my first vacations to New York with my dad for his job, every time we would meet his friends that lived here, there was always an Entenmann's Coffee Cake-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Coffee cake-
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
... on the table. That was a thing that really stuck in my head as a kid. So I was like, "Okay, I want to do this, but how can I make this bigger?" So I ended up making 150 mini apple pies with the Entenmann's Coffee Cake crumble, and I gave them to my favorite provision store, R&D Foods. I gave them to my tattoo shop. I gave them to my yoga studio, and then I threw a really big party for all of my friends. Getting to see all of my friends eat these tiny pies all together, everybody that makes this place makes New York my home and also makes America my home was very special. I feel like that's the one that took up the most head space because it meant so much.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow. Do you have one to two tips for bakers who are like, "This is the year I'm going to nail pies? I'm going to get pies right?"
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Take your time. Just chill. It's not always going to turn out. Not every single one of my pies has turned out great. Some of them have been straight to the bin, straight to trash.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
But you did it.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
But I did it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Exactly. My greatest advice is just chill. Chill, not only in the sense where you're keeping and calm, but also use your freezer and your fridge is a friend.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Chill. It's so important. Keep things cold and just put good tunes on. Spend some good time in your kitchen. Have some nice comfortable shoes on 'cause back support is important. Lean into it. Know that you're going to make a mistake, and that's fine.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's so beautiful that it came full circle because you were gifted the Four & Twenty Blackbirds Pie Book. That was what sparked the inspiration for this. Then you transitioned from design to working at Four & Twenty Blackbirds full-time. What is Four & Twenty Blackbirds?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Four & Twenty Blackbirds is a pie shop in Brooklyn that was started by the sisters, Melissa and Emily Elsen, who I love very much. During the pandemic, I got let go from my fashion job, and I was like, "What am I going to do?" I was like, "Stacey, you're going to do a hard pivot." So I cold emailed a bunch of bakeries all over the city 'cause at this point, I was three or four years into my pie project. I was a pretty good home baker, not the best, but I feel like-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You could make a pie.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I could make a pie. So I was like, "Okay, why don't I give this a shot?" Four & Twenty wrote back to me and I went in, did a trial day. They hired me, and I ended up working there for a year-and-a-half, almost two years. It was honestly the best experience ever. I loved working there. I love the team there. Honestly, shout out to Catherine and Lauren and Juan and Eileen. I loved my time there. We listened to great tunes and we baked a ton of pie, and I learned so much more about pie that I couldn't have from watching videos or reading books. It was fully hands-on. Rika, our supervisor, who I also love very much, she taught me how to crimp a pie like no other. I couldn't be more thankful that the universe did the most poetic thing ever where it took me to the bakery that started it all. It was the best experience of my life working at Four & Twenty Blackbirds.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So I can see your face just lighting up thinking about it. What was the transition like from home baking to now being in a professional kitchen with all the standards and the flavor profiles and the quality control that happens there?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
It was really exciting. It was exciting to learn how to bake at scale 'cause I had only ever thought about baking one pie at a time. Now we were thinking about baking pies 40 at a time or 80 at a time, or during Thanksgiving, it was like by the hundreds. It was fun to see how the business was run, how the sausage is made, I would say. There's a lot of processes and stuff, which is not too dissimilar than working with factories and handbags, right? There's a process to everything and there's a method to all the madness and yeah, it was great.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Can you tell us what a typical day was in the bakery?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
The best part about working in pie is that it didn't start too early.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You're not making bread. You're not making sauce.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
We're not making bread. We'd start the day by baking the pies for the next day and then assembling the pies for the next day and then making fillings. We knew exactly what was going to happen each day, which was nice. I worked there during the pandemic where everything felt so uncertain, and I knew when I went in this was going to happen. That grounded me a little bit, which is really nice, and it was hard work. You're standing for a long time in front of a hot oven. Your hands are really tired and your feet are really tired. At the end of the day, you accomplish something that's wonderful and someone gets to enjoy the fruits of your labor like at home-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Pun intended.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yeah, exactly. That's the beautiful thing about being in food is that someone gets to enjoy it, someone gets to eat it, and it's nourishing.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What was the steepest learning curve when it came to working in that bakery?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I think reading recipes that were so… It was so many eggs, you know what I mean?
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
It was so many eggs. It was also, I guess, learning to organize the process in a way that was the smartest. Meezing out all the ingredients at the beginning, and then so you're just going like, boop, boop, boop, and then it's done, and it's just, I think it was timing.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so awesome. Were there any tips that you took from professional pie making that you'd found helped continue the pie project or make your pies shine?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I feel like I perfected my egg wash recipe.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I'm not the best crimper in the world, but I got so much better at crimping, and crimping a stack of 40 rollouts at the bakery became such a meditation or tiny baking tricks that I would learn from being on the ovens and also honestly, eating the pie. Getting to eat the pie and tasting the textures and eating everything, that helps a lot in research and development, eat the food.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So now you transition and you are working at Big Night.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I am.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes. So what is Big Night?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Big Night is a wonderful dinner party essential store in Green Point, Brooklyn, started by Katherine Lewin, who is the best. I, like my email to Four & Twenty Blackbirds, cold emailed Katherine. I was thinking about leaving the bakery because I had gotten my cookbook deal and I needed a little more time, not in front of an oven. It was very sad to leave, but also the right move for me when the cookbook thing started ramping up. So I was like, "Ooh, it'd be cool to work at a retail store that I feel really encompasses everything I love about food and everything I love about home."
When Big Night opened, I immediately was like, "I have to go there. Katherine is a genius. This is so wonderful." So I cold emailed Katherine. I met with her and I was their first hire. We became fast friends and I started working there. Big Night is a tiny store that has very beautiful light and basking in the light and getting to work with all the vendors that we carry is honestly the most wonderful thing. I live in South Brooklyn and Green Point is quite far from me, but I am blessed now with two neighborhoods. I know so many people in Green Point now, and it's nice to have two New York lives.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so funny you say that. Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
The wonderful part about Big Night too is just meeting the customers, talking to them and helping them find the gifts that they need to go to a wedding or for a birthday or help them pick out what they're going to have for dinner or what they're doing for date night. Recently, for Valentine's Day, I got to help all these people pick out things for people that they love. I think that is the most wonderful thing ever.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I love gift giving. All my friends always say if there was a gift-giving Olympics, I would medal first place.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
So I feel like-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Those are some great friends.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
So I feel those skills really helped me with being at Big Night, and I couldn't be more thankful to be working there now.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's awesome. Can you describe for our listeners who haven't been to the store or don't know much about the store, what is the layout and what's the essence behind the store?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Big Night has everything you need to throw a dinner party. You can shop cross categories. It's got all the food you need to make your dinner, and it's got all the beautiful glassware and serving where you need to serve your dinner. So it's everything you need to throw the perfect dinner party, have a martini night, eat caviar. We've got it all. The store is only, I think it's like 200 something square feet, so it's very small, but we've packed a lot of things in there and it packs a real punch and yeah, the vibes are immaculate.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The vibes are immaculate-
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Immaculate.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I love that. In the last couple of weeks, there was an article about the shoppy shop concept, talking about how different stores are creating aesthetics and brands for the way that we shop and the way that we are able to consume food. Do you want to talk about that a little bit and why you think that trend is so popular now?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I think it's the most wonderful trend ever. For example, my friends that live in smaller towns in Nebraska or Oklahoma or all these places that you might not get stuff from Spain or I don't know, fishwife or omsom or all these things. These tiny stores that are bringing these things get to expose so many people to so many different things all over the country, that's so wonderful, and it's also getting to shop locally in your neighborhood at a smaller place. You get to know the people that work there. People that come to Big Night get to know me, and I get to know them, and if you start this relationship and it's just-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. It's a great joy to see you in there. You always get the best recommendation. It's one of the few stores in New York I cannot leave unless I've walked away with at least three things.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What are three things right now that you are loving at Big Night that are in stock?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
We have this Dan Dan noodle sauce that's amazing. You can eat it straight out of the jar or with noodles. I've eaten it with rice cakes. I made a pseudo seven-layer dip with it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Whoa.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I know. It's incredible. We have a calamansi spread, like a little jam from this company called Beca. It's so delicious. Calamansi is not really a flavor you see a lot, but I grew up eating it a lot because there was a large Filipino community in Hong Kong. So it's just so wonderful to see that on the shelf. Another thing that I'll always love, and I can eat it straight out of the jar, is sambal gorent from Bungkus Bagus in L.A. It's these two Balinese sisters that started it and it's so delicious. It's fried shallots and fried chilies, and you can put it on something or you can eat it straight out of the jar.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Can you tell our audience what calamansi is?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Calamansi is, I would say a hybrid between a lime and a lemon maybe.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, okay.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
It's very sour, very tart, but very refreshing. My hunch is that calamansi is going to have its rise to fame the way yuzu did. You know?
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. I think it's Sanzo.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
It's trending, it's kind. It's coming.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes, Sanzo has that calamansi drink.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It'll have its trend, even though-
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
It'll have his momes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
... mixed feelings about that whole thing. Well, I want to ask this question. I didn't get to ask this when we were talking about the pies, but have you visited all 50 states as a process of making the pies?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I have not.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I actually have a map that's like a scratch-off map.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, those are so cute.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
They're so cute, and so I scratch one off every single time. The two states I want to go to the most are Idaho and Montana.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I'd love to go to Idaho, just-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Go to the state's fair.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Go to the state fair-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Get a potato.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
... but mostly just sit under a tree and take a nap or something. In Idaho, I think would be pretty great.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, you can do that in Central Park, I guess.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I get Central Park, but it's different.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It doesn't hit.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
It's different. It doesn't hit the same as in Idaho.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Totally. Totally.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
There are lots of states I haven't been to. I've never been to Kansas. I'd love to go to Kansas. I'd love to go to Michigan. I'd love to go to honestly, every single state.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's awesome. So you managed to turn your project into a book, which is incredible. I feel like we have so many debut cookbook authors that are coming on the show, and it's such an incredible process to be able to take your ideas and just bring them to life and be able to hold onto your idea. So how did you get this project pitched and how did you turn it into a book proposal?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
During the pandemic, because I had a lot of time at home, I was like, "You know what? I'm going to write the bones of a book proposal," 'cause the dream was always for this to be a cookbook, but it was very much a dream for me. I didn't think it was attainable. My friend Carrie, who wrote an anthology about New Jersey, she had a book proposal. So we talked through what the process is about, so I started writing the book proposal. While I was writing the book proposal, Christopher Hemelin, who was my literary agent at the time, he reached out to me asking if I wanted representation. At the same time of that, Michael Szczerban, who is now my editor at Voracious, an iImprint of Little Brown, he reached out to me too. I was like, "Oh, my God, I'm about to sign to this literary agent and then meet this publisher."
I was like, "What is going on? The universe kind of all brought it together. I couldn't be more thankful that I get to share this story in book form, like I get to hold it 'cause this project had been online, on Instagram or on my website. It wasn't a thing I could really hold. This goes back to the design. When I design a handbag at the end of it, I got to hold the thing that I make. At the end of all the baking. I get to hold the pie that I make. At the end of this process, I'm going to get to hold the book that has all the recipes, all the stories, all the love letters to the people that the pies went to, and I feel like that's very special to me.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so beautiful. Putting a cookbook together is no small task. I feel like you probably worked on it for two years now?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
It's been two years. The shoot for the cookbook was 17 days. My long Thanksgiving shifts at Four & Twenty Blackbirds really geared me up. I was ready to go.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
She knew how to roll and print and do it many times. Just talk to me about the process of putting the cookbook together. So you get your agent, you get a publisher, you get an editor, you're starting to work on it. How did it come about?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Basically, I start writing my manuscript and then you have to produce a shoot, because cookbooks have photos. The wonderful thing about working with my editor, Michael, was he really trusted me and he trusted my creative vision. I will say, because I was in design, I had such an idea-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And an eye.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
... and an eye, an idea in my head of what I wanted a book to look like. I made all these mood boards and all these decks about the vibe. I wanted it to look like old national parks posters-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I love those.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
... vintage Pyrex colors, and then also with picking the photographer that will work best or the food stylist that would be the one to bring my vision to life or finding the prop stylist. I couldn't have a assembled a better team. Shout out to Alana, Kate, Maeve, Nam, Katherine, and Zach for bringing my whole book to life. We spent so much time the same way I did with baking each state when taking the photo for each state, we thought about what the light would look like at a certain time. We made all these scenarios. For Kansas, we were like, "What would it look like at 5:00 p.m. at dinnertime? The sun is almost setting, but not quite yet." That's how we lit all the shots. We made all these little stories in our head, and I can't wait for everybody to see all the stories we made together.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. I hope you have one with at least a pile on the windowsill.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Oh, I made two.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay. I was on the edge of my seat for that one. So you said that the shoot took 17 days?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Why so long?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
A lot of those days were prep days because a lot of pie baking, you make the crust ahead so it can rest. You can make the fillings ahead and stuff, and you can really only do eight or 10 shots in one day. Also, with the state pies with making them, you're shooting the same thing. It's a pie, it's a circle. How can you make it different? So we thought really hard and it really came down to lighting and props. Shout out to Maeve Sheridan. She is a prop stylist guru. She brought all the perfect things to make each one feel so special. Each pie got the five-star treatment. I just wanted people when they opened the book to the state that's theirs to feel transported to where it is, and props and stuff helped a lot, set the scene.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes. How did your design experience come in handy? I know you mentioned that you had an eye for it, but what things from the fashion world, the pie world came together to really make the book come to life?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
It was probably colors and composition, how I wanted each state to be laid out, how I wanted even the pie to look. For Tennessee, I knew it was going to be a biscuits and gravy pie 'cause that's Dolly Parton, who was the love of my life's favorite breakfast.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
An icon, a legend.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
But I was like, "You know what I could do is I could make Dolly Parton out of pie crust." So I made a portrait of her out of pie crust for the topper of the Tennessee pie. I sat there and I painted with diluted espresso and made her hair at 3D with pie crust. It was so fun to get to be crafty again in a different form. Eating Dolly Parton was kind of funny, but that was an exciting part of taking everything that I've learned in my life so far, putting in a thing that's going to dictate where my life is going to be.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Were there any recipes from your project that you had to change for the book to make it more accessible for people to be able to bake through?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I changed a couple, mostly because when I was first doing the project, I was like, "Oh, I could have done better." In my life, I always feel like I can always do better.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Always improving.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Always improving.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
So I switched a couple that you'll see when the book comes out to make it feel more like that state or make it feel more like the person that the pie was going to more like them. So yeah, there were a couple of switches, but all for the better.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I want to talk to you a little bit about how social media played a role into this because you documented your whole journey on social media. You still have your old photos where you're holding up a cute little sign with the facts. Why did you decide to document on social media?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
It was the easiest way to keep track of everything. When I was applying for my Green Card, you have to keep track of where you traveled and stuff, and so I referred to my Instagram where I was like, "I was in London on this date." Social media has also let me meet so many people from all these different states where they got to guess what the next pie was going to be, or when I posted what the pie was, they could be like, "Oh, my God, how did you even get here?" This is so crazy," and it's the great connector.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. That's so beautiful. Is there someone that you would love to give a copy of the book to when you think of dream recipients of 50 Pies 50 States?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Honestly, it will be the only answer ever, it's Dolly Parton. It would be so-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Why Dolly Parton?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
I have always loved Dolly Parton since I was little, which-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so cute.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
... seems so funny because I was a girl that grew up on the other side of the world, but the first time I saw her, I was like, "This is a person that she does what she wants. She wears what she wants. She speaks her mind." Her songs have been this soundtrack of my entire life. It would be so special just 'cause I've listened to her music so much during the process of all of this, from the conception of the project to where it is now becoming a cookbook. But it would be so special to be able to give it to her, and she has a whole paragraph in the acknowledgement section. It would just be so special. Dolly Parton, hands down.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Dolly Parton. All right. Well-
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
... if anyone knows Dolly Parton listening to the podcast. We have a cookbook for her. How do you want them to feel when they get a copy of the book? Or how do you want them to get to know your story through the book?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
When they look at their state, I want them to be like, "Oh, my God. Yes, she did great," but honestly, it would be also really fun if they're like, "Nah, she didn't get that right." Honestly, tell me, I'd love to know, and I just want them to see how much I love this country. The thing about this country that I love, it's not the politics or the Empire State Building or the skyscrapers, it's the people. This book is about pie and it's about America, but it's mostly about the American people and the people that call this place home and the people that made this country my home. It's more than a cookbook. It's like about how I've found myself a home when I felt so untethered to anything. Yeah, that's what I want people to see in the book.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so beautiful.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Yeah, find your way home.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes. Stacey's book, 50 Pies 50 States comes out on June 13th, and you can pre-order it wherever books are sold. Stacey, we're about to do our fun Future Of Food Is You tradition, the Future Flash Five. Are you ready?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Let's go.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Let's do it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Let's get into it.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Let's party.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay. The future of cookbooks.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
More stories.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of pie crusts.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Limitless.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of dinnerware.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Personalized.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of social media.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Essential.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of food of design.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Exciting.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I love that. Well, Stacey, if we want to continue to support you and learn more about your journey, what are the best places to find you?
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Find me on Instagram @50pies50states, and pre-order my cookbook wherever books are sold. It comes out June 13th and I can't wait. I'm very excited for you guys to see it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. Well, we're really excited. I cannot wait to bake a Georgia pie and a New York pie from your cookbook, so that's so awesome. Thanks for coming on the podcast.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Thank you so much, Abena. This has been the best.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Before we go, our guest is going to leave a voicemail at The Future Of Food Is You mailbox, just talking to themselves 10 years from now. You have reached The Future Of Food Is You mailbox. Please leave your message after the beep.
Stacey Mei Yan Fong:
Hey future Stacey, it's Stacey from many moons ago. I hope you're still living, laughing and loving. I'm sure things in your life have changed quite a bit over the past few years, especially since your debut cookbook came out. But hopefully, you're still surrounded by the people you love most and a slice of pie isn't too far away. If my intuition and foresight is right, you're sitting on the back porch of your brownstone in Prospect Heights with a cup of coffee or maybe something a little stronger in your hands with your puppy, Nora, at your feet and the soft sounds of Waxahatchee wafting through the air from your record player, because yes, you're still absolutely obsessed with her music.
I hope that you're on your third or most likely your fourth cookbook. You are a Virgo after all, but most of all, I hope that you're happy, not happy, just in the ha-ha content sort of way, but truly happy down to every atom in your body. I hope that you are engulfed in the love that's in front of you and that you've finally figure out how to fold a fitted sheet. Only you know what you've learned in the years that have passed, and only you can be open to what you're going to learn in the years that are coming. The thing I know now and you still know then is that you never really know where a slice of pie will take you. I love you and I like you. Just one more thing, have you eaten yet?
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's it for today's show. Do you know someone who you think is the future of food? Tell us about them. Nominate them at the link in our show notes or leave us a rating and a review and tell me about them in the review. I can't wait to read more about them. Thanks to Kerrygold for sponsoring the show. Visit kerrygoldusa.com for more. The Future Of Food Is You as a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Thanks to the team at CityVox Studios, executive producers Kerry Diamond and Catherine Baker, and associate producer Jenna Sadhu. Catch you on the future flip.