The Bright Side Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine. We have a special episode for you today. As you know, I'm the one usually doing the interviews here, but I was a guest recently on The Bright Side, the new daily podcast from Hello Sunshine. The company founded by Reese Witherspoon, that's all about telling women's stories. The podcast is hosted by Simone Boyce and Danielle Robay and they feature a wide range of guests who share lots of life lessons and great advice. I sat down with Simone in their Los Angeles studio and talked about the importance of trusting your gut, the story of how Cherry Bombe came to be and lots more. It was fun being on the other side of the mic and I can't wait for you to listen. Thanks to The Bright Side team for a fun interview. Definitely check out The Bright Side wherever you get your podcasts. I am a regular listener and I can definitely say that Simone and Danielle make my mornings a lot brighter.
Simone Boyce:
Hey fam.
Danielle Robay:
Hello, sunshine. Today on The Bright Side, Kerry Diamond, the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine, talks about creating a community for female food superstars. It's Monday, June 24th. I'm Danielle Robay.
Simone Boyce:
And I'm Simone Boyce. And this is The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine. Okay, besties. It's Monday, which means it's time to get our minds right. We're sharing the stories that motivate us, inspire curiosity and provide a fresh perspective to our week. So what's on your mind, Danielle?
Danielle Robay:
There's something making news right now that has really had me thinking. And at the heart of the story is this question, do phones belong in the hands of children and in classrooms? So the nation's second largest school district, the LA Unified School District, just voted to ban cell phone and social media for students K through 12. And this also coincides with two major things. One is the US Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy. He called for an immediate warning label on social media. This is also coming off the heels of social psychologist Jonathan Haidt's book that made a ton of noise online and amongst parents because he shared data to support that social media is literally rewiring children's brain. He's calling them the anxious generation. But he says that we can reverse course. So on my mind this week is that this is so encouraging because I'm wondering if this is the start of finally reversing that course and being more mindful.
Simone Boyce:
I am so encouraged by this too, Danielle. I'm a big fan of Jonathan Haidt's work. And I don't even know that we fully know the repercussions yet. I'm sure we'll start to really learn what those consequences are 10, 20 years from now when we have the proper research to back it up. But at this point, we do have enough research to know that it's not healthy for them and that parents have to step in and restrict the usage. So I am going to be part of the group of parents who do restrict smartphone usage as well as social media. My kids will not be having a smartphone until they're probably 16 to 18 years old. They'll be using a flip phone. They will definitely not have social media.
Danielle Robay:
Well, okay. Here's the thing. And I don't have kids, so please feel free to push back on me. But I do think that it's hard to keep them from phones entirely because one, they do have to get used to using technology potentially for future jobs and just life skills now, that's part of it. But also because it's part of social circles, you don't want them to be ostracized. So what I like about this ban is that it's not making parents the bad guys. And I love that.
Simone Boyce:
Well, the thing is, I think parents are going to have to continue the work at home. I actually don't see as much of an issue with your kids being ostracized because they don't have social media. I also don't think it's going to impact their socialization. I think kids are going to be way better off learning how to socialize and form friendships without social media. I don't know that social media is essential for growth in that regard.
Danielle Robay:
Okay. Tell me what's on your mind? Because you did an interview all about food. I can imagine food is on your mind today.
Simone Boyce:
When is food not on my mind? And I've got some international travel coming up, so I'm thinking about where I'm going to eat while I'm abroad. And I came across this article that ranks the world's best food cities.
Danielle Robay:
Ooh, I'm going to get competitive, you know I'm from a food city. I'm from Chicago. Let's see, what is it?
Simone Boyce:
All right. Well, let's see if you can guess which came in at number one.
Danielle Robay:
I feel like San Francisco has incredible chefs and they're ahead of the curve maybe. But southern food is so good. I don't even know where to start.
Simone Boyce:
Think broader, think bigger, think we're going to have to go across the pond because actually-
Danielle Robay:
Norway, Denmark, Paris?
Simone Boyce:
No. Well, actually Denmark is known for its food, but the winning city on this list is Naples. It is the Italian birthplace of pizza. Listen, I aired my very controversial take on pizza here on this show. So here I am eating my words, acknowledging that pizza is the cause of Naples becoming the winning city on this list.
Danielle Robay:
I'm with it. I have a little bit of Italian blood. I have to agree.
Simone Boyce:
Okay. Another city on the list is Johannesburg, South Africa.
Danielle Robay:
Ooh, I've never been, have you?
Simone Boyce:
I've never been, but now I want to because it came in second place. And Time Out says that you can eat through the entire continent in just this city. I don't know if that's true, but here's what they said about that. "You can have Ethiopian food, Nigerian food, West African eats." They say Johannesburg has it all really. After Johannesburg, Lima, the capital of Peru, came in third place. Ceviche is of course the city's must eat dish in Lima. I could eat ceviche all day long.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, me too. The first time I had Peruvian food was in San Francisco, to back up my first thought. But I would not have thought of ceviche for Peru. That's cool.
Simone Boyce:
Well, you mentioned a lot of US cities when we started this conversation. Believe it or not, Danielle, the only US city that actually made it on the list was Portland, Oregon.
Danielle Robay:
What?
Simone Boyce:
Yes.
Danielle Robay:
Who made this list?
Simone Boyce:
Portland, Oregon. Portland has great food, I don't disagree. But I don't know about it being the delegate of the US in terms of the world's best foodie cities.
Danielle Robay:
They are farm to table, which I appreciate in many ways. But the best cuisine in America? Are we kidding?
Simone Boyce:
And pizza was the must eat dish listed for Portland.
Danielle Robay:
I've been to Portland three times, I've never had pizza there. But I guess now I have to go again.
Simone Boyce:
Well, all this talk about food, Danielle, is a perfect segue into our next guest, Kerry Diamond. While you were away recently, Danielle, I had the opportunity to sit down with her. See, Kerry started a magazine called Cherry Bombe, dedicated to raising a glass to women in and around the food world. And they feature all our favorite culinary cool girls on the pages of Cherry Bombe like Giada De Laurentiis, Ina Garten, aka the Barefoot Contessa, Sprinkles founder Candace Nelson, plus our recent Bright Side guest, Kristen Kish and fellow gummy candy addict. Well, since Kerry launched Cherry Bombe 11 years ago, it's become so much more than just a magazine. It truly is a media empire. There are multiple Cherry Bombe podcasts, packed conferences, and a ravenous fan base called The Bombe Squad.
Danielle Robay:
Ooh, I'm so bummed I missed this one. I can't wait to hear this conversation.
Simone Boyce:
Well, you were definitely missed, but you were there in spirit as always. I'm excited to share our conversation with you and our besties. That's right after the break.
And we're back with true taste maker and the founder of Cherry Bombe, Kerry Diamond. Welcome to The Bright Side, Kerry.
Kerry Diamond:
Thank you so much. I'm such a big fan. I'm a Bright Side bestie and I'm thrilled to be here.
Simone Boyce:
Oh, you made my day when you said that. Okay, Bright Side besties. If you've been wondering where all the cool girls in food hang out, they're on Cherry Bombe. And Kerry, I want you to tell us why you felt called to create this community for female food superstars?
Kerry Diamond:
It was about 12 years ago and I had opened a restaurant with my then boyfriend. I had started dating a chef, I met him online. And he asked if I would open a restaurant with him. I had never worked in restaurants. I owned one before. I worked in one. I don't recommend that.
Simone Boyce:
Very brave.
Kerry Diamond:
I don't know. Brave might not be the word that I used, but yes. And I had come from this world of women. I had come from women's magazines and fashion and beauty. And the more and more I got into this world, the more I realized that women in lots of cases were treated like second class citizens and their stories just weren't being told. And I had been a storyteller from a very early age. I started my first school newspaper in third grade, love telling people's stories. And looked around and was like, "I want to tell these women's stories."
Simone Boyce:
Well, there's this weird double standard in our society where we expect women to be home chefs, but we expect men to be professional chefs. In your time covering the food industry, what have you learned about the reason behind that?
Kerry Diamond:
That's a great question. Lots of things. You can blame some of it on the French brigade system. That might be a boring answer. But-
Simone Boyce:
Not at all.
Kerry Diamond:
... that was all about men being in the kitchen. It was based on the military. And I think a lot of it stemmed from that and the hold that French cuisine had over the food world for a very long time. And that was all based on the brigade system. And they just got used to women not being in kitchens. And that's not every culture. If you're lucky enough to travel and you get to go to places like Vietnam or Mexico, you'll see that there are women in the kitchen and a longstanding tradition of that. It just happens to be that wasn't the case in this country.
Simone Boyce:
Well, Cherry Bombe has this crystal clear mission of spotlighting and celebrating women who are professionals in the food and drink industry. You've interviewed Giada De Laurentiis, Ina Garten, aka “The Barefoot Contessa,” “Top Chef” host Kristen Kish, who is just on our show, Sprinkles founder Candace Nelson. What's one thing that all the cool, successful culinary women have in common?
Kerry Diamond:
I think it's that they all trust their gut.
Simone Boyce:
Wow.
Kerry Diamond:
And they come from all different walks of life, some have advisors, some have figured out their way on their own. But I think at the end of the day they have all learned to trust their gut.
Simone Boyce:
Another thing that all the women who have been on the cover of Cherry Bombe do is that they do things on their own terms. And you do that as well. When did you start to embrace that unapologetically?
Kerry Diamond:
I think as a child.
Simone Boyce:
As a child?
Kerry Diamond:
If you asked my mother, yeah, she would probably say, right out of the womb. I started doing that.
Simone Boyce:
What are the qualities that you would use to describe yourself as a child?
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my gosh, no one's ever asked me that. Well, it's easier to tell a little bit about my childhood. I'm the oldest of five. And everybody's into the oldest sister thing and birth order right now. And I think that was very true for me. Being the oldest of five, my siblings and I that far apart in age. I think there's nine years between me and the youngest. And my mom and my dad were very young. They were both about 20 when I was born. So I think it was having young parents and having so many siblings. I was just very responsible and mature at a young age. This might be funny for some of your listeners, but when I finally turned 30 and then 33, I felt like I was finally the age I was meant to be. So even when I was younger, I felt older than everybody.
Simone Boyce:
So you felt like an old soul when you were younger?
Kerry Diamond:
I guess so, yeah. And I liked being responsible for myself probably because I was one of those '70s and '80s kids who had the feral upbringings. You've all seen those memes on social media. Our parents would kick us out of the house and wouldn't know where we were until we came back at suppertime. So I think I just learned to be very resourceful and got jobs as soon as I could. I loved working. As soon as I could get those working papers at 13, I got my working papers.
Simone Boyce:
And you grew up on Staten Island, right?
Kerry Diamond:
I did.
Simone Boyce:
Growing up in Staten Island, I'm sure you saw New York City and all her glory. Did it call to you as an aspiring writer?
Kerry Diamond:
It did. It was a little bit like Dorothy and Oz. Growing up in Staten Island and just literally seeing Manhattan in the distance. And I just knew I wanted to be there from a really young age. I wanted to be there, I wanted to work there, I wanted to be part of what was going on there.
Simone Boyce:
You knew you wanted to be a writer from a young age. And before you started Cherry Bombe, you had a very successful first act in the fashion and beauty industry working for places like Women's Wear Daily, Harper's BAZAAR, Lancôme. How did you know it was time to leave that world and explore your next act?
Kerry Diamond:
It was at Harper's BAZAAR. I was chomping at the bit to write more profiles and that just wasn't what my boss was interested in for the beauty section. She just wasn't interested in the people behind beauty the same way I was. I didn't want to write about the lipstick, I wanted to write about the woman who made the lipstick. And I just realized that wasn't going to happen for me there. I was going through a lot. I was getting divorced. I colored my hair blonde. And for all of you who have friends who do radical things with their hair, you might want to check in with them because I think there is something to that.
Simone Boyce:
It's cry for help.
Kerry Diamond:
Perhaps sometimes to cry for help, yep. I just knew. Sometimes you just know it's time to move on. But I wasn't looking for new jobs. I just happened to go out to lunch with the higher ups at Lancôme and they offered me a job right over the table as head of PR for the US. And I said yes right then and there. I did not ask any of the questions that someone should ask when they are making a major pivot and life change like that. But I made the leap.
Simone Boyce:
You said something that really stuck with me just now. You didn't want to just write about the lipstick, you wanted to write about the woman behind the lipstick, the woman created the lipstick. And it seems like that's exactly what you brought to Cherry Bombe. Take me into that moment when you decided to create Cherry Bombe. Do you remember where you were? Do you remember when it came to you?
Kerry Diamond:
I don't. And I wish that I did. I had taken a new job. I had left Lancôme after about six years and I was working at Coach and I was a little bored. And I had been talking with my partner, my boyfriend Rob at the time, about doing a magazine for our first restaurant. And I think that's what got me thinking, oh, I miss magazines. I miss print. I miss storytelling that way. And it was a very broey time in food. I think that was what was going on.
I was doing a lot of work for the restaurant in terms of getting us involved in different events in New York City and around the country. And I would always ask, "Who else is participating?" And they would tell me all the chefs and literally not a single other woman. And that was not uncommon in New York at the time. And I would say to them, "Do you guys know there are no women participating in your big cookout or this or that?" And they would say, "Oh my gosh, we know. Is there anyone you can recommend?"
And so I started to do that and got a better sense of the players, women doing interesting things, but for some reason just weren't getting the spotlight focused on them. And it was a time, it was preemie too. It was Mario Batali and things like that. So it's recent memory and recent history for a lot of us. So I just had this idea Cherry Bombe popped in my head fully formed. I'm sure Joan Jett and The Runaways and the Cherry Bomb song had a lot to do with that. And it was calling me. I'm touching my heart right now, it just felt like my mission and I had no idea what was ahead of me.
Simone Boyce:
It's interesting that you mentioned Joan Jett and that song because there is this rebellious punk spirit almost at Cherry Bombe. Do you see that too?
Kerry Diamond:
I do. And that's something I always loved. I've always loved indie music, indie movies, that indie spirit, folks like Sofia Coppola, all the fantastic female indie designers, people like Maria Cornejo and Ulla Johnson. So that's definitely a spirit I embrace. I mean, doing a print magazine these days is very punk rock. I mean, it's a tough thing right now.
Simone Boyce:
It's so punk rock. We don't often hear about print magazines growing these days and yet you are doing that. What's the secret to building this community that you've continued to grow over the past 11 years?
Kerry Diamond:
We've always stayed true to our mission. You talked about our mission in the beginning, of celebrating and spotlighting women in and around the world of food. So I am so grateful that we had a mission. A lot of companies don't have a super clear cut specific mission that way. I also think the nature of media today is you're either very broad or you're very niche. And we're niche and we love our niche and we unapologetically celebrate that niche. Women and food, that's us and we love that.
Simone Boyce:
I have this business theory I want to run by you because you mentioned having a niche and having such a clear mission from the beginning. So we recently interviewed a business strategist named Kathleen Griffith.
Kerry Diamond:
I heard that episode.
Simone Boyce:
Yes. Okay, great. She said that every company needs an enemy. And if you think-
Kerry Diamond:
It's so funny that you said that because I thought about that this morning in the bathroom. Yeah.
Simone Boyce:
Did you really?
Kerry Diamond:
I did. Yeah.
Simone Boyce:
Okay. What were your thoughts?
Kerry Diamond:
Our enemy was bro food culture. That was our enemy. It's been vanquished somewhat. I mean, Me Too helped take it down. Things have changed a lot for women, but as much as things have changed, things haven't changed. And it's so funny because when we started out it was because we wanted to tell women's stories. Now women's stories are being told 100%, you're telling them, we're telling them, so many outlets are telling them. So now it's, what's next? I don't think it's enough to just tell people's stories anymore, although I think there's so much power in storytelling.
Its, how do we take that to the next level? And when people talk about why aren't there more women who are head chefs? Why aren't there more women doing this? More women who own restaurants? It's really picking those things apart now and trying to figure out why and how can we tell stories in different ways that share a lot of best practices that help women figure out the resources and the way forward in terms of things like ownership, money, I mean, you know so much of it comes down to money and access to money.
Simone Boyce:
Well, you've clearly found a way to own a very important niche and make it profitable. Okay, we have to take a short break, but when we come back, Kerry tells us how she learned to follow her gut.
And we're back with Kerry Diamond, founder and editor in chief of Cherry Bombe. Kerry, you've always been such an expansive thinker and someone who listens to their gut and does things on their own terms. And-
Kerry Diamond:
I had to learn to listen to my gut.
Simone Boyce:
So what was that process like? How did you learn to do that?
Kerry Diamond:
Getting my butt kicked. There were a lot of times. I think the first time I learned this was at Harper's BAZAAR because I got in trouble several times. I mean, this was the Devil Wears Prada era of fashion magazines. I got in trouble a bunch of times and I was so mad at myself because I knew I had that feeling, whether it was on a shoot or on an assignment or something. You feel that thing in your stomach and you're like, "Ugh, something's not right." But for whatever reason you don't speak up.
And then you go back to the office and you get in trouble and you're kicking yourself all the way back to your office because you knew what you should have done instead. And that was the first time where I said to myself, you need to listen to yourself more. When all your spidey senses are going off. Pay attention to that. And it took me a long time to realize that. And sometimes it's hard. You're not always in a position of power where you can act when your gut is telling you something. I learned over time, I learned the hard way.
Simone Boyce:
Well, how old were you when you were in those positions? Because I can remember that resonates with me. I mean, being in my 20s, having that pit in my stomach because I didn't like the way that things were going or I felt like I messed up and I felt like I couldn't speak up about it. I think that, like you said, comes along with not being in a position of power at that point in time.
Kerry Diamond:
I also think things are different today. And you're younger than I am, but in my 20s and my 30s and part of my 40s, it was not an era where you could speak up and where you could take on someone more powerful than you. That just was not the case. Your option was to quit your job, not to speak up. That just wasn't an option. And it makes me sad to even think about that and it's one of the reasons I'm so optimistic about today and the future because I think people can speak up and they can affect change.
Simone Boyce:
100%. What is your why? What keeps you going?
Kerry Diamond:
At the end of the day, I love people. I love people, like I've said, I love telling their stories. And that's what gets me through is times are tough and times are weird and that's been one of the great joys of getting to spend time with thousands of women in this industry. And not only that, food people are special people. You need to know that too. They're great people to be around. You go to a restaurant and they want to send you everything on the menu. People send you their cookies, they want you to try their wine, they want you to try their new mocktail that they have devised. And there's so much just warmth and creativity in this industry. It's great.
Simone Boyce:
You mentioned that you never even worked in a restaurant before you owned one. You must have learned so much from that experience. What did you take away from that?
Kerry Diamond:
I'm really grateful that I had that time owning and working in restaurants because I had no idea. Like I said, I always worked as a kid. I had my paper route and I babysat and did lots of things, but I never worked in restaurants. And as a New Yorker, a lot of us have tiny apartments, we go out to restaurants. That's what we do. I was a very happy but oblivious consumer and I would go into these restaurants and I had no idea what was going on behind the scenes and how hard it was until I owned my own restaurant and learned. I can only speak for myself, it was the hardest thing I ever did. I could not believe how hard it was. But it also gets in your blood. There's something about restaurants, I'm sure for a lot of you out there who have worked in restaurants, you understand that. And I have so much admiration for anybody who makes a go of it in restaurants or food.
Simone Boyce:
There's been so much expansion in this business, not just inside of the walls of restaurants, but outside as well. It just seems like this time of innovation and growth that's really spearheaded by female entrepreneurs in food. How does it feel for you personally to witness all of this innovation?
Kerry Diamond:
I think some of it is because women felt called to do something in the food world, but the doors were literally closed to them. One thing that people need to remember is it was only a decade ago when there were kitchens actively hostile to women working in them. They would not hire women. That's in our lifetime. So women are so smart, they figured out other ways to do things. They became food stylists and recipe developers. And I think the access to capital and information over the past several years has helped lead to all these brands. There was a lot less gatekeeping. You could Google what you wanted to find out. If you had a dream and wanted to do your own olive oil or vinegar or spice or tin fish or whatever it was, that information was all of a sudden out there. And if you had it in you to go raise money, you could launch a brand. But I do think it goes back to women being shut out of the kitchen was where it all started.
Simone Boyce:
I want to talk about your entrepreneurial spirit more and thinking about the next phase of Cherry Bombe. How do you continually push yourself to think big, especially with this company?
Kerry Diamond:
I don't think I've thought big enough. I've only started to think big recently. And I think it goes back to what we were talking about, that indie spirit and the whole DIY punk rock thing. Things I liked were smaller in scale and I always thought I was opposed to bigger things, mass market things. But that's changed over the past few years. I mean, if you look at Beyonce, look at Taylor Swift, look at Barbie last year, and it really has been in the past year where I've thought Cherry Bombe is all about women and food. Women are half the planet and everybody loves food.
And anytime I meet someone, whether it's on a plane or at an event and they're like, "What do you do?" And I tell them about Cherry Bombe, they're like, "Women and food, those are my two favorite things." And I said, "I know. It's everybody's two favorite things." So watching what has happened over the past year, call it the girl economy, whatever you want to call it, but with those major players in culture, that's really made me think there's so much more that we could be doing. And that's why I want to take some time and just start to think what's the next decade? And it's not something that I ever did before. I do feel now that I can look back, I'm 55, when I look back, I hurdled through a lot of my life. I didn't do a lot of stopping and smelling the roses and I literally try now to stop and smell the roses.
And I was not a planner. And had you told me this advice when I was younger, I would've rolled my eyes and not taken it. But I do wish I had stopped a little and just thought more and planned more. I think some things in my life could have been a little bit easier. I might have still wound up in the same place, I hope I would have. But I think there's a lot to be said for stopping and assessing where you are and thinking about your goals and your dreams.
Simone Boyce:
That's so funny that you say that because I see that in you. I see you moving through every pivot with intention.
Kerry Diamond:
I wish I could say that. No, I just said yes. I said yes a lot. The Lancôme job was a great example. When I got that job, I went home, I was in shock because first off, I had to go tell my boss that I was resigning, not quite on a whim, but sort of. And I called my dad that night and he said, "Congratulations, kid. So who's your boss?" The head of the luxury division had offered me the job. And I think they didn't even have a head of the brand at that moment. And he's like, "Who's your boss?" And I was like, "I'm not entirely sure."
"How do they measure success?" "I have no idea." And my dad was just firing off these questions and I was like, "Oh my God. I didn't ask any of the right questions." And I think I did that a lot. That's how I got into restaurants. I should have gone and worked in a restaurant before I funneled all my money into a restaurant. I should have asked a lot of questions. I should have done a lot more homework. Things sometimes work out, it seems like in my case, they certainly did, but I lost a lot of money in restaurants. I put my whole retirement savings into that. So as fun as it might seem on paper and exciting, and it absolutely was and it changed my life, it wasn't always easy.
Simone Boyce:
So looking back, do you think you would've said no more than you said yes?
Kerry Diamond:
Probably not. Knowing myself, I'm sure I would've said yes.
Simone Boyce:
So if someone out there is listening and they have a side hustle or a passion in the food space, what would you say is the first step that they should take today to pursue that passion full time?
Kerry Diamond:
I would say do your homework. Do the opposite that I did. Do your homework. There are people out there who are happy to share information with you. Like I said, there's a lot less gatekeeping than when I was younger. So yeah, do your homework and save your money or be prepared to ask for money. If you're not going to self-fund your project or do a Kickstarter or Indiegogo or GoFundMe or something, you need to get smart about finances. I think that that's good advice across the board. You need to understand your business from a financial perspective. So make sure you do that homework.
Simone Boyce:
Kerry, before we let you go, what's one thing we can all do to support women in food?
Kerry Diamond:
I firmly believe everybody should have a favorite female chef. There are 99.9% certainty that there is a female chef wherever you live. And one of the messages that we've really tried to get out there for 10 years is it's not enough to be excited about women in food, you have to put your money for your taste buds are essentially. And you should know what the female owned businesses are in your neighborhood. And it's a great idea to have a favorite female chef and try to support her however you can.
Simone Boyce:
Kerry, thank you so much for joining us on The Bright Side.
Kerry Diamond:
And thank you for your beautiful show. I listen to the News of the World in the morning and then I listen to you too. And it's a great way to start the day.
Simone Boyce:
Kerry Diamond is the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine.
Kerry Diamond:
Thank you to Simone for a great chat. Be sure to subscribe to The Bright Side wherever you get your podcasts. Catch Simone and Danielle every weekday for your daily dose of entertainment, culture, wellness, books, and more.