Tommi Vincent Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from New York City. Happy Thanksgiving, Bombesquad.
Today's guest is the amazing Tommi Vincent. If you know Tommi, you know she is a woman of wisdom, warmth, generosity, and grit, and I could not think of anyone better to join us for our pre-Thanksgiving episode. Tommi is the author of the brand new book, “The Table of Life: Nourishing the Soul with Food, Love, and Faith,” which is a gorgeous blend of memoir, life lessons, and recipes. Cooking saved my life, she writes in the book, and you will feel the truth of that on every page. Today, we talk about the power of gathering, the healing that can happen around a table, and how Tommi grew from a young girl navigating huge challenges to the phenomenal woman she is today. We also get into some practical Thanksgiving matters and lots of recipes, because when you are part of a professional football family, as Tommi is, and feeding 20-plus hungry guests, you learn a trick or two. If you need perspective, grounding, or just a moment of kindness before the holiday, Tommi is the person you want to hear from. Stay tuned for my chat with Tommi Vincent.
Today's show is presented by JW Marriott. At Cherry Bombe, we love a great celebration, and so do our friends at JW Marriott. Their signature garden party events have become a hallmark of the brand and a true tribute to the art of gathering. Whether indoors, outdoors, or any season, each event incorporates distinctive touches. Fresh ingredients from the JW garden often inspire the menu and even appear in sustainable centerpieces that anchor the long communal table. One standout detail: a butter candle that was as clever as it was delicious. Yes, a candle made out of butter. We also admire the brand's dedication to reducing food waste. And another thoughtful touch, menus crafted from seed paper. So guests can take home a piece of the JW Garden, a party favor that actually grows. Ready to host your own garden party? JW Marriott can help you create a personalized garden party experience. Learn more at jwmmarriott.com.
A little housekeeping. If you're looking for some excellent and unique holiday gifts, the Cherry Bombe Black Friday and Cyber Monday holiday sales are underway. Head to cherrybombe.com for a special deal on our print magazine subscription and tickets to our jubilee conference happening in New York City on Saturday, April 25th. These are great gifts for foodie friends, colleagues, loved ones, and especially for yourself. Head to cherrybombe.com to shop and learn more.
Now, let's check in with today's guest. Tommi Vincent, welcome back to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Tommi Vincent:
I'm so glad to be here.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my God. I'm so glad you're here. So I have to say, Ashley, our amazing engineer, came in and took away the TV that we use for the Zooms. And I was like, "Ashley, how am I going to see Tommi?" And she said, "She's in the waiting room." And I was like, "Wait, this is in person? Oh my God. Mind blown." I'm so excited. I haven't seen you in so long.
Tommi Vincent:
I know. And you know what, Kerry? I am all about interacting with real human beings. And so when the opportunity presents itself and I can, I'm all about, let's give face-to-face.
Kerry Diamond:
I couldn't be happier, honestly. I mean, I would've been thrilled to talk to you on a phone, let alone a Zoom, but in person is honestly more than I ever could have hoped for. And I'm so thrilled, you're someone I just am so filled with admiration for, and I'm excited for people to hear a little bit more about this beautiful book that you've written, “The Table of Life.”
But also, this is our pre-Thanksgiving episode. We've done a few foodie Thanksgiving episodes, we're going to talk about food a lot because that's one of your many jams. I couldn't think of anybody better to have on the day before Thanksgiving after a year like the one that we are still in the midst of. And we'll get into why you are the person that I think everybody needs to hear from the day before the holiday.
Let's talk about this book, “The Table of Life: Nourishing the Soul with Food, Love, and Faith.” I knew you were working on this book for a long time. I thought it was a pure cookbook. It is not.
Tommi Vincent:
No, it is not.
Kerry Diamond:
What is this book?
Tommi Vincent:
So the book is part memoir, and it does have recipes at the end of each chapter, because ultimatel,y what my hope is for the reader is that they'll learn how to build their own table one dish at a time using all of the ingredients of their life. And as someone who was able to cook her way through healing, the recipes are symbolic of that. And there's also the lessons that tie into the recipes that I just believe that people will enjoy the journey from the beginning to the end, ultimately getting to the space where they see I've built a full table and I've extended that table, and I pulled up some more chairs where other women can come and take a seat. I am excited for everyone to have an opportunity to read it.
Kerry Diamond:
You are always adding extra chairs to the table, literally and metaphorically.
Tommi Vincent:
Yeah, I am intentional about that because I know for myself personally, there were so many moments in my life where I wish I would have had the opportunity to talk to someone about what I was going through or what I was experiencing. Just navigating life, not even having to be anything dramatic and hard, but just navigating life. And once I realized that I was experiencing some things, I knew I could not be the only one. And so the opportunity to get to engage in this journey, life's journey with other women for me, it does so much for my own soul and continues to contribute to my personal growth and healing.
Kerry Diamond:
I do have to thank you for everything you do for women. You are a great champion and supporter of women. You had a very tough life. Aspects of it are still tough, no doubt. Every opportunity you get to give back, you do. And that is just so admirable.
Tommi Vincent:
Thank you. No, I appreciate that. Even without an acknowledgement for how I show up in this space for women, it's fulfilling in a way that if I didn't do it, I wouldn't be who I am. So it's necessary. In addition to the benefits that someone else may receive on the other end, I believe it does more for me than it does for the other person.
Kerry Diamond:
That's a good reminder to people that sometimes that's the amazing part about giving, makes you feel good. Before we dive into this book, we're not going to give away too many of the details, because you've had a very interesting, very complicated life. We talked about it in depth the last time you were on the podcast, so I'll include a link to that episode in case people want to listen to it. But I don't want to give away everything that's in the book, I want people to go buy this book for themselves and for people in their lives.
But let's talk about some practical Thanksgiving things before we jump into some stuff about the book and some of the recipes in the book. I would imagine you are cooking for an army. What's going on in the house tomorrow?
Tommi Vincent:
Things are looking different for us nowadays, because my kids are getting older and quite frankly, they have their own life. We do get to gather, so there will be more than enough of us in our home. My children, especially the twins, they're in college, so they have friends that they have not asked if they could attend. They just let me know, "Oh, such and such is coming and such and such is coming." And I'm like, "Okay, well, good thing I cook like Nana Eatie. We will have more than enough food for everybody to go back, not just once or twice, but three or four times."
So we're good to go and I do all of my prep work in advance so that I can also be present. That's something that over time I realized was really important to me. We have our time that we congregate in the kitchen as a family, because this is a group project. This is not a solo dolo thing for Tommi. We cook together and we'll also have time to eat together.
Kerry Diamond:
I love that. Solo dolo time for Tommi. I'm going to remember that one. Well, everybody makes enough so that they can go back three or four times. People might have been like three or four times? I do need to point out you are an NFL family. Tell folks what I mean by that. Not that you watch the NFL on Thanksgiving, which you do anyway.
Tommi Vincent:
Listen, it's been a long time, been over 30 years. So my husband, Troy Vincent, played for 15 years and now he is an NFL executive and that has been 15 years. So I've been married for over 31 years, so this has been our life story. Thanksgiving has never been traditional for us, because either he was playing or he was working, which is still the case. And now this year, he is working on Thanksgiving and he is working on the Friday after Thanksgiving. So that threw a little grease in our game, because we normally actually have our dinner on Friday. So now I'm like, okay, Troy, we've been adjusting for 30 years, so we're going to go ahead and do Thanksgiving as a family and he won't be present for that. But then we're going to come to his office in New York, me, and the kids, and we're going to do dinner at the conference table.
Kerry Diamond:
Hey, you got to do what you got to do sometimes, right? But now, but the miracle of phones and Zoom and Google Meet and all those things, he can eat with you guys. Dad's a laptop.
Tommi Vincent:
Not this guy. Technology, no. He'll be like, "What are you talking about? " No, we'll be in person or we won't, period.
Kerry Diamond:
Got it. Got it. What's the group size?
Tommi Vincent:
We will definitely be about 20, 20 or more that will be coming through on that day. And Kerry, I love it. It is very nostalgic for me because that's how I grew up where there were always in every cracking crevice of the house a body and laughter and playing cards, and just really creating those moments that live with you forever. And so I'm so grateful that I get to do that with my children and their friends creating core memories for their friends they'll always remember when they came to the house and you all made this and we ate that and we talked about this and we laughed about that. So it is everything to me that I still get to carry that tradition forward that was a huge part of my upbringing.
Kerry Diamond:
We'll be right back with today's guest. Our next virtual Bombesquad meeting is happening this Tuesday, December 2nd, from 3:00 to 4:00 PM EST. We're hosting a virtual cookie swap over Zoom with three fantastic cookbook authors and cookie authorities, Kat Lieu, Sarah Kieffer, and Vaughn Vreeland. Our Bombesquad host, Donna Yen, will talk to them about their holiday bakes, cookie trends, and all the tips and tricks we can squeeze in. Plus, they will answer your burning cookie questions. Actually, that said, no burning cookies, just burning questions. Our monthly virtual meetings are open to official Bombesquad members and paid Substack subscribers. If that's you, check your email for the registration link. If you'd like to join us on Tuesday, there's still time to become a subscriber at cherrybombe.substack.com. See you Tuesday.
How do you handle grace at the table? Does one person say grace? Do you take turns?
Tommi Vincent:
So normally we have a blessing of the food and then we end up getting into talking about things that matter to us and that we're thinking about and that we're grateful for. But the prayer over the food is a single prayer and then we start having those conversations about gratitude, and really allowing it to unfold organically versus it being something where we're establishing a protocol for how that goes, because we want it to be organic so people don't feel like we're going into ceremony. You're together as a family and you have your tradition of everyone goes around the table to talk about what they're grateful for or the blessings in the moment in time. We rather it just to be organic conversation that unfolds as we talk and as someone shares one thing, it may trigger something for another person. Versus it being with children, if you give them an assignment, they're going to do the bare minimum. But if you allow it to be organic, you're going to hear the talking from the heart.
Kerry Diamond:
And you're okay if people choose not to talk?
Tommi Vincent:
Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. But I also don't have any issue with saying, “And what do you have to say, Kerry?” I'm going to put you on the table. “What are you talking about? What are you grateful for, Kerry?”
Kerry Diamond:
Any other Vincent family traditions? Aside from the food, we'll talk about that.
Tommi Vincent:
So we've actually added a new tradition where we take the grandkids to Great Country Falls, which is in our area, to do some apple picking. So that way, we're able to do applesauce and also for the apple pies.
Kerry Diamond:
That's so much fun. How early do you start the prep?
Tommi Vincent:
Oh, man. So this year is a little different. Normally, I start my grocery shopping and everything three weeks prior. This year, I've had to even up that some because there was the focus on my book tour. And so I was doing the dinners that I do for the “Table of Life.” I was shopping already. And so when I was going to the grocery store, I was accumulating the things I needed, so my pantry was ready to rock and roll.
And then I also did in advance my greens. I did a mixture of collard greens and mustard greens. And I chopped them up, cleaned them, and then I put them in a Ziploc. And I did what my husband's grandfather, Mr. Vincent, told me that if you freeze your collard greens as you prep them and you freeze them, it acts like the first frost. The greens will cook up very tenderly. And so for me, I'm like, okay, I'm getting a jumpstart on Mr. Vincent. It's not the night before or two days before. So now it was weeks in advance where they're going to be nice and tender for me.
Now, listen, I don't know if that's even true. You know how the old folks tell you stuff, you just say, "Okay, well, it's got to be gospel because Mr. Vincent said it, so I believe it."
Kerry Diamond:
That's funny because that was going to be my follow-up question. Have you recipe tested this?
Tommi Vincent:
No, I have no idea.
Kerry Diamond:
Because you know how to recipe test.
Tommi Vincent:
But it feels special. Mr. Vincent is no longer with us, but I feel like I'm bringing him to dinner with us because I've incorporated something that he shared with me.
Kerry Diamond:
100%. We've talked a few times on the show about Thanksgiving leftovers. Do you bring your own dishes to take leftovers? How do you handle it in your house?
Tommi Vincent:
We have Tupperware so people can take things with them.
Kerry Diamond:
Extra.
Tommi Vincent:
We're prepared for you to be able to take food home. We want to carry over the giving of the thanks, but you going to do it at your own house. So we make sure you have something that you could take some things away with, because I don't want to get left with all of that food. Either I'm going to have to freeze it, Lord knows I don't want it to go to waste. So I'd rather you go home so you can have leftovers for a couple of days just like we will.
Kerry Diamond:
So Oprah famously said, "Do not take my good Tupperware on Thanksgiving." Are you like her or are you okay parting with it?
Tommi Vincent:
So they're not getting my Tupperware. They are getting containers that I purchased specifically that they would be able to take away.
Kerry Diamond:
Noted. Noted. Before we talk about the specific recipes, I want to talk about this book. Why did you want to write a book?
Tommi Vincent:
It was just in me to write the book. It was a process, as you well know, because we've talked about it from day one since we connected. I wanted to write this book, I'm writing this book. I wrote the book. And when I got to the end of the book, what I realized was the book was actually a love letter to me. That was not an outcome I anticipated. When I was writing, I was really thinking about the readers, what I wanted their takeaway to be. But then when I finished, I was like, "This is for me."
And then I also was able to look at aspects of my life where when you're in life and you're going through life, you don't... well, I know I did not realize how challenging the totality of my life was. It was just life and it was dishing up what it was dishing and I was taking it all in. And when I got on the other side and I thought about it, I said, "Wow, this was a lot." And then I'm like, "You a bad girl. You were able to not only get through those things and survive those things, but now you're in life and you're thriving."
To bring it home with your question, in the end I realized I wrote it for me. And everyone else gets to pull up a seat and they get to feast in the dishes that were on my table and now they'll be equipped to do that for themselves.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you consider any other title other than “The Table of Life?”
Tommi Vincent:
I did. It was “The Season Life,” and I could not use that one because Ayesha Curry, one, she has a trademark, she has a website, and she has a book. So I'm like, I can't have her book popping up top before my book.
Kerry Diamond:
The reason I ask is because I can't think of a better title that describes everything people know and love about you than “The Table of Life.”
Tommi Vincent:
Listen, once this was the title, and it actually was my son, Tanner, who when we were like, I had a cover that said “The Season Life.” And then it was like, oh, we can't do that one. Because I talk about the seasoned women in my life in the book, so it was like, now I have a seasoned life and I can share that with other people. And Tanner said “The Table of Life.” And I said, that is the title of my book. To your point, it is perfect.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us about some of the women we meet in the book.
Tommi Vincent:
I talk a lot about my mom and aunts and my grandmothers, their blood runs all through my veins. They are etched in my DNA and I'm so proud to come from that stock of women. And it was extremely important for me to introduce people to them throughout the book, because I wanted them to know that even though my life was challenging, there were women along the way who were investing in me the best ingredients that they had inside of them. I also talk about some teachers who were extremely impactful in my life. As a matter of fact, those teachers aided in changing the trajectory of my life.
And so I want you all to meet these amazing women, because if you're a woman, there have been other women that have played a part in you becoming who you are today and your evolution as a person. It was an honor to be able to do that.
Kerry Diamond:
When people read your book, I highly suggest that they do it with a stack of Post-it notes and a highlighter, because there are going to be so many lines that they want to highlight in this book. The one that just stopped me in my tracks, and it's early on in the book, is ‘cooking saved my life.’ How did cooking save your life?
Tommi Vincent:
I was in therapy, intense therapy for two years. I had a bout of depression and I realized I wasn't going to be able to muscle my way through like I had done so many times before. And in the process of going through therapy, I kept having these visions of my grandmother in her kitchen. And I also thought about how I don't know what my grandmother's life was really like. She didn't talk about anything. What she was known for, at least to me, was these magical moments that she created in her kitchen.
And so regardless of what was taking place in our family's life, when we were in her kitchen, when we were sitting at her table, life was good. I got into that kitchen while I was going through therapy and I started cooking and leaning into cooking in a different way, I should say, because I've always been a cook. I've always done that in a way where at one point in time I just thought this is something that we do. I come from a lineage of family members who know how to throw down. So it wasn't a big deal until I got into therapy and I realized, no, it is a big deal. We actually have a gift. This is a gift that our family has that when we can get people to our tables, we have the ability to change their life.
And so I linked in really hard and I cooked all the time, so much so that my family knows if I'm not cooking, if I stop this, then something is going on, because the thing that gives me so much joy and so much life is absent and I'm not present because what is my present is not activated.
Kerry Diamond:
The past few weeks, I've had a little bit more time to cook. And just being reminded of how grounding cooking is, even if it's just for yourself.
Tommi Vincent:
Mm-hmm. You think about the rhythm of when you're cutting stuff on the cutting board, you can literally get lost in the kitchen. It could be a whole lot happening in life, but for this moment, you are transported into this space where it's all about feeding. You're not just preparing food for the belly, but you're nourishing yourself.
Kerry Diamond:
You're taking care of yourself and other people. And you sometimes forget that part of it. It's just you have to eat dinner, but you really, truly are taking care of yourself.
Tommi, you know what I forgot to ask you about for Thanksgiving and given that you're having so many people over, I know the Vincents get on famously. Not every family does. And this has been a tough year, especially if you're not on the same side politically, all those things. How do you handle that? How do you handle the conversations you don't want to have, the people you maybe want to avoid, but can't?
Tommi Vincent:
Kerry, I really hate this for people.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. And hold on, I should say I'm asking you this because you're one of the wisest people I know. So sorry to put you on the spot and make you answer the tough question of the season.
Tommi Vincent:
No, no. I hate this for people, because I don't believe that nothing or no one should rob us of our opportunity to gather. We take life for granted that there will be a tomorrow. And so we have all of this turmoil that's taking place across our nation and so much division. And it's hard when you believe something differently and not just a difference of opinion, but a difference that life matters. It's hard to justify and to rationalize that this is acceptable. And so I don't have an answer for that. I'm grateful that the people that I gather with, we are all on the same page. We are all on the same page.
I do have friends who don't believe everything that I believe. And what I hold on to is that I know them. I think about them as a person and I think about the ways we interacted where we were doing some really good things together. So I believe I know their heart. And while I don't have the answer to how we got where we are today, I do know that these people whom I love dearly are still the people that I love dearly. And I'm not going to allow anyone to take that from me or them from me for that matter.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you good at biting your tongue and rising to the occasion?
Tommi Vincent:
I'm not. No, absolutely not. I am open to dialogue. I also leave room for the other person. I sincerely, I want to understand better, because maybe I'm missing something. So I leave room, but I also am not one to just bite my tongue because I believe if we talk about things more and we create space for that, that allows for us to bridge the divide and help us to come back together. It's when we stay in our silos and we only operate with people who believe like we believe that we'll stay disconnected. So we got to find a way to bring things back together.
Kerry Diamond:
That's a tough one though, right now.
Tommi Vincent:
Oh, it is. 100%. But listen, I believe we can do tough things. I believe we're worth it. I truly believe that as a country, as a sister, as a coworker, all the ways that we can show up in life, that we're all worth it. If we can find willing participants to activate that way, we should all be for it. Look, that's a great conversation at the table.
Kerry Diamond:
It's a good reminder that we can do tough things.
Tommi Vincent:
Mm-hmm. The first chapter in the book is Life is Hard. And I always ask at the “Table of Life” dinners, has anyone in here ever had to do anything hard? Everyone raises their hands. So the fact is life is hard.
Kerry Diamond:
I love that's what you called your first chapter. You did not sugarcoat it. You just went right into it.
Tommi Vincent:
Life is hard. But the truth is, if you've done hard things and we're all sitting at the table, that means the truth is we can do hard things. We can do hard things.
Kerry Diamond:
Amen. All right, let's talk about some fun things, but that are associated with hard things, the recipes. I love how you told your life story and then you ended the chapters with an important recipe from your life. Coincidentally, some of them are perfect for Thanksgiving, so thank you, Tommi Vincent. Let's talk about a few of them. Again, don't want to give away too much, I want people to buy this book and read it. You have a chapter called, these are heavy chapter titles to me, I'm Not Going To Make It. And the recipe is deviled eggs with candied bacon and you got that recipe from your mom. Tell us about that recipe and what it has to do with you not making it.
Tommi Vincent:
In that chapter, I talk about having my daughter Desire at 12 years old. And when you're, one, pregnant and then you have a baby at that age, as you can imagine, people have a lot of thoughts and they have a lot of things to say. I realized, and so this is connecting it to the egg, I realized that my mom was teaching me how to develop that hard shell to protect myself. I also recognized that that was her way of surviving the life that she had lived. And so she was gifting that to me as a tool to navigate life.
As I matured, what I realized was that it was necessary to break that shell open to get to the good stuff. Nobody's eating the shells. You're eating what's on the inside of that. And so I was able to crack the egg open and get to the best parts of who I am so that I could be served up in a delicious dish for all of those who have an opportunity to sit at my table.
Kerry Diamond:
That's beautiful. That chapter was harrowing as people can imagine. And just the way you were treated by the doctors was awful. And the fact that you are still here with us today and so resilient is just such a testament to so many things.
Tommi Vincent:
Yeah. I was just talking about that the other day about the doctors and how they mistreated me. And every time I think about it, I get another snippet of that moment in time where, wow, not only did they do this, they did that. But what I recognized was that they had determined that my choice somehow made me less worthy of care.
I'm so grateful that I did make it through that situation. I have the opportunity now to see people like myself who other people disregarded and counted as nothing. And I'm able to demonstrate to them and to communicate to them that they are indeed worthy and that they are not their choices. Those choices now have an opportunity to create some type of life lesson for them so that they can evolve and become everything that they've been created to be.
Kerry Diamond:
It must break your heart that all these years later we're still having conversations about how powerful people treat young women and the complete disregard.
Tommi Vincent:
Young women, older women.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, all women, but particularly in the news right now.
Tommi Vincent:
Young women. Yeah. And when you don't know how to advocate for yourself, mistreatment can sneak up on you, where you don't even recognize that there's mistreatment taking place. That is one of the reasons why I believe it's so important for older women to be in communication with younger women. We have to pass along the life lessons so that they don't have to work their way and navigate their way through the darkness, that they're going through there at least with a flashlight so they can see where they're going and they can avoid the obstacles that are in front of them instead of having to plow into them, get damaged, become harmed before they can make their way into the light.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you follow that whole women ruin the workplace conversation a few weeks ago?
Tommi Vincent:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my gosh. Count your blessings that you didn't follow that. There's a conservative podcaster who the Times, I love the New York Times, but for whatever reason, decided to give the guy a platform and he had an episode about women ruining the workplace. I shouldn't even get into it with you. The podcast conversation was so convoluted. It was shocking.
Tommi Vincent:
How are they ruining?
Kerry Diamond:
They're obsessed with woke. So the whole thing was about woke and sexual harassment and the Me Too movement. And it just blew my mind because I was like, women have improved the workplace in every way. And the fact that we've had all these conversations now about things that are inappropriate in the workplace so that young women don't have to put up with the same nonsense that people like you and me did, they know it's wrong and everybody knows it's wrong. Anyway, I don't want to get off on that tangent, but I'll send you the New York Times article. This is all you need to know about this. The Times had to change the headline three times. There was such a backlash to this article and the podcast episode.
Tommi Vincent:
Can I ask you a question?
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, of course.
Tommi Vincent:
So do you believe that there are people with a microphone that are blasting these ideas, but they're not the majority?
Kerry Diamond:
Yes. I agree with that. I mean, not that I want to give her any oxygen at all, but Megyn Kelly last week talking about at least the young women abused by Epstein and all those monsters were 15 and not 10 or 5, whatever she said.
Tommi Vincent:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
I mean, you're a woman and you're saying those words, I don't care what side of the political spectrum you sit on. A lot of people listen to her as that the majority know. The majority of people think certain things, but somehow we're all held hostage to the minority, whether it's things like gun control-
Tommi Vincent:
That's what it feels like.
Kerry Diamond:
... gay marriage. The majority of the country believe in those things, yet that's not reflected politically necessarily.
Tommi Vincent:
Yeah. That's where the math doesn't math. And so that's where there's a deeper issue in the political system clearly because it's not about the majority, it's about the power.
Kerry Diamond:
I guess in a way, this goes back to you talking about us having to have the hard conversations, but also not avoiding the people in our lives who maybe we don't agree with a hundred percent.
Tommi Vincent:
Yeah, because if we're looking at transforming issues in our country that are impacting people in a real way, then we have to be able to get to people who don't think like us to give them our perspective outside of what we're hearing on the platforms. If the platforms are having their way, then people aren't having intelligent conversations. They're just taking information and saying, "Oh, that's the truth. That's the gospel." But until you sit down with real people who are experiencing it or who know people are experiencing it, then it makes it challenging us for us to move in any direction.
Kerry Diamond:
I just want politicians who wake up and want all their constituents to be healthy.
Tommi Vincent:
Like all of them.
Kerry Diamond:
All of them. To be healthy, wealthy, and wise. Why doesn't every politician wake up every morning and look in the mirror and say, "I want my constituents to be healthy, wealthy, and wise." And by wealthy, I don't mean billionaires. Nobody should be a billionaire. Sorry, people. Fun schools, no one should be hungry. Everyone should have someplace to live. Why is that so hard?
Tommi Vincent:
The basics. That's the basics. That's just the basics.
Kerry Diamond:
And medical care. For God's sake, don't raise the premiums that high. I mean, we've been brainwashed to think that we're so lucky to have those things. Anyway, all right, back to recipes.
All right, the chapter titled Superwoman, collard greens, your favorite. We talked about collards a little, but that recipe's pure collards, no mustard greens, right, in that one?
Tommi Vincent:
Yeah, in the book, this is just the collard greens. And so I'm a dump cook. And so-
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, did you say a dump cook?
Tommi Vincent:
A dump cook.
Kerry Diamond:
D-U-M-P?
Tommi Vincent:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
We had to spell there.
Tommi Vincent:
That is a real term.
Kerry Diamond:
Dump cakes.
Tommi Vincent:
If you cook without recipes and you're just dumping in.
Kerry Diamond:
I never heard that term before.
Tommi Vincent:
You're a dump cook. And so I'm a dump cook. So there's recipes in the book and when I'm out doing the dinners, I cook some of those recipes. I have to tell you, I'm not following the recipe in the book. I'm cooking. So I get in the kitchen and so the mustard greens came in because I'm like, “Ooh, this adds a nice, a different note in the greens and there's a different tenderness. The leaf is way more tender.”
In the book, I'd use the collard greens because it's my favorite vegetable. There's a process in the maturation of the green. When they're young, they're really tender. And then as they get older, the leaves become more, they're tougher. However, that tough leaf has the ability to be tender again when it is cooked properly. And so I liken myself to a collard green because I'm both tender and I'm tough.
And listen, Kerry, I don't want to give up my toughness. I don't want to give up my ability to be strong. That is not a thing for me. I am so grateful that I am strong and I know it is my life experiences that have cultivated me to be a very strong woman. What I've had to learn how to do is where does strong show up for me? And I need to have a regulator, because I don't always need to be on full throttle strong. Sometimes I need to pull back that strength. Sometimes I need to choose not to use my strength in that moment.
But the collard greens to me allow for me to paint that picture because the longer they're steeping in their pot liquor is what we call it, the more tender that they become. And some people say, "Well, you're cooking all the nutrients out of them. You just need to saute them in a little oil and some onions and peppers and blasi-dasi." Well, you know what? When you have a way of doing things that feeds your soul, I say do what's best for you.
Kerry Diamond:
And you have to drink that pot liquor.
Tommi Vincent:
Oh, yes.
Kerry Diamond:
That's like the bone broth of the South.
Tommi Vincent:
Absolutely. That's where all of your flavor is.
Kerry Diamond:
And that's a great reminder too, what you were saying, you don't always have to be tough. You don't always have to be in charge. I forget that a lot. Switch gears, don't always have to be in the same gear.
All right, let's do two more. Baked mac and cheese, maybe my favorite food group on the planet, mac and cheese. That chapter is called The Weight Is Over. And you spelled weight, W-E-I-G-H-T.
Tommi Vincent:
Yes. So the weight, the heaviness. And so that chapter is talking about words. Words, light words, illuminate your pathway. And heavy words, they create a darkness and they weigh you down and they prevent you from flourishing and becoming. With the macaroni and cheese, it was this ability to have all of these ingredients in a dish. When most people think of macaroni and cheese, they think of a heavy dish. They're not thinking of a light dish. But if it gives you life, what'd you say? This is your favorite food group? Guess what? That gives you light. It makes you feel good.
I know that we have to be responsible with our eating. I also believe it's important that you enjoy what you're eating. And so thinking about how we are choosing the food that we allow to nourish us, the way that we're experiencing food is so important, because food is a gift. It's not something that should be a privilege. It should be a right. And culturally, so many different cultures, food is such a big part of how they are experiencing life together, how they are growing their families. I talk about recipes as heirlooms that we should pass down. Like you talk about wealth, that is wealth for a family. When you get Abuela's rice or Mima's pig feed, I don't know, whatever it is, when you get it and then you serve it to people who never met her, guess what? They're experiencing her in every bite.
And so I want us to be willing to enjoy food and take the limits off. Eat responsibly, absolutely, but enjoy food because it is a gift. And when you make food and it's not processed and you're not shortcutting it and you're making it literally, it is something to be treasured.
Kerry Diamond:
That is such a beautiful way to not only honor our ancestors, but the people who can't be there.
Tommi Vincent:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
I've been thinking a lot about, I don't come from a family that has a lot of recipes. It's not a family of great cooks, I'm trying to break that cycle. But there are a handful of recipes and I'm really feeling like I want to revisit them, update them a little. I think part of it is because it's, like I said earlier, it's been such a year and these are things that we can hold dear and that can ground us. Whose macaroni and cheese recipe is it?
Tommi Vincent:
So the macaroni and cheese, there's two people that when I make my macaroni and cheese, I think about. I think about my nana Claudia and I think about my aunt Alverna. But this one leans more towards my nana Claudia.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Do you make the mac and cheese for Thanksgiving?
Tommi Vincent:
I do.
Kerry Diamond:
Ooh, I want to come over to the Vincents’ house. It's one thing we don't do.
Tommi Vincent:
What are your sides?
Kerry Diamond:
Oh gosh. The traditional ones. Stuffing, mashed potatoes, cranberry sauce. I like to have a salad. I'm thinking of making something special tomorrow, I should have recipe tested it. Melissa King came on the show and one of the recipes in her book is her dad's pork meatballs, and I'm going to make them with ground turkey, because we have historically not had great moments over turkey in my family.
Tommi Vincent:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
I remember lots of tears with my brothers when they were little and absolutely refused to eat turkey and my grandmother wanted them to eat turkey. So they're a little traumatized even though they're both like big adults now. But I thought it would be fun to maybe do a twist on turkey and we'll see how that comes out.
Tommi Vincent:
I say test it on the family.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, 100%. You know what I had last week? We were at Chef Amy Brandwein's Piccolina in Washington, DC, and she had a chicken roulade and I was like, "Oh my gosh, this would be so good with turkey." And that was another thing I thought maybe could be a little substitute on Thanksgiving, but that would've required some advanced planning on my part, which I did not do, so maybe next year.
Let's talk about the last recipe I want to mention. The chapter's called Walking in the Light and it's sweet potato pie.
Tommi Vincent:
So my sweet potato pie was inspired by my Aunt Eileen. The first time I learned how to make it, I was in her kitchen. I remember it like it was yesterday. The biggest takeaway I would say from the recipe is that while yes, I can make homemade crust, I sure can, but there are some really good ones on the market that are buttery and flaky and are delicious. And so I want us to get to a place where we recognize that we don't have to carry hard around with us like our friend. Go buy the store-bought pie crust, make your filling, fill it up, and boom, you cut out half of the process and the time. You know what I'm saying?
Kerry Diamond:
Pie crust pressure is a real thing.
Tommi Vincent:
It's a real thing. Find one you're really like. I enjoy making pie crust, but that's not everybody's jam. But when I'm making a meal, I also think about what are my star players going to be from a dish perspective? And those are the dishes I really invest in. And then the other ones, the supporting cast, I don't make them as complex. So that way I could just do them with my eyes closed. Really simple dishes that are still delicious, but they don't have the time requirement and a long list of ingredients.
Kerry Diamond:
You look at this like a football coach, Tommi.
Tommi Vincent:
I'm all about working smarter, not harder. That's important to me.
Kerry Diamond:
That's a good reminder. Sometimes I'm the opposite.
Tommi Vincent:
All of your dishes have 50 ingredients and-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, just my life. My life. Yeah. Work smarter, not harder people. If you remember anything from today. Well, Tommi, now I know why you wrote in the book, ‘cooking saved my life.’
Tommi Vincent:
Mm-hmm.
Kerry Diamond:
You have so many beautiful associations with the dishes in your life. I love that so many of the recipes and this are things that are going to be on the Vincent Thanksgiving table.
Tommi Vincent:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
It really is the table of life.
Tommi Vincent:
It is the table of life.
Kerry Diamond:
Aw. Tommi, what are you most thankful for this year?
Tommi Vincent:
I am thankful for my family and that we are not divided and that we look forward to spending time together. That is major. I think we need community, but when you can have family as your community, that's a blessing.
Kerry Diamond:
I agree. I was thinking about that the other day. I have a lot of siblings and just the fact that we're all sort of on the same page, I'm very, very, very grateful for.
Well, Tommi, I'm also thankful for you. I know I don't get to see you as often as we would both like, but I'm so grateful for you and everything that you've done for this community of women. I hope you and your family have a beautiful holiday.
Tommi Vincent:
Thank you. You too.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you to Tommi Vincent for joining me. If you love this episode, be sure to check out past episodes with Tommi and also with her daughter, documentary film producer, Desire Vincent Levy. Also, be sure to check out our holiday sale at cherrybombe.com, and save on our print magazine subscription and Jubilee tickets. They make great gifts if I say so myself. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Special thanks to CityVox Studio in Manhattan. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Jenna Sadhu. Our executive assistant is Brigid Pi,ttman and our head of partnerships is Rachel Close. Thanks for listening, everybody. You are the Bombe. I hope you have a lovely holiday and that you know how thankful I am for each and every one of you.