Yewande Komolafe Transcript
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi, peeps. You're listening to She's My Cherry Pie, the baking podcast from The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Jessie Sheehan. I'm a baker, recipe developer, and author of four baking books, including “Salty, Cheesy, Herby, Crispy Snackable Bakes.” On each episode, I hang out with the sweetest bakers around and take a deep dive into their signature bakes.
Today's guest is Yewande Komolafe, one of the most inspiring voices in the culinary world today. You might know Yewande from her recipes in The New York Times, both sweet and savory ones, and her thoughtful work has helped bring Nigerian food to the forefront of the American culinary landscape. Yewande grew up in Lagos and moved to the U.S. when she was 16 to go to college and then culinary school. However, due to an unfortunate clerical error with her student visa, she was unable to return to Nigeria for 18 years. Upon graduation, she worked in bakeries, restaurants, and then food media. Her work has appeared in Bon Appétit, Saveur, Food & Wine, and more. Her debut cookbook, “My Everyday Lagos: Cooking at Home and in the Diaspora,” received a James Beard Award nomination and is a celebration of flavor, family, and her hometown, blending traditional Nigerian techniques and personal storytelling. Yewande joins me today to talk about her incredible journey, her food scientist mom who worked for Cadbury in Nigeria and loved to bake and cook, her family's farm, located in their backyard behind their city home, her experience as an undocumented immigrant in both restaurants and food media, and the similarities and differences between those experiences, and Nigerian cuisine's relationship, or lack thereof, with dessert. She also shares her love for mangoes and the way she eats them when in Nigeria, and we walk through her Mango Shortcake with Lime-Coconut Cream recipe from the Times. I know you're going to love Yewande's story, so stay tuned for our chat.
Today's episode is presented by California Prunes. Just this morning, I made my go-to smoothie of kale, blueberries, and prunes. And I couldn't have had a better morning. It's so good. I've been snacking on California Prunes since forever, and I love knowing how good they are for your gut, your heart, and particularly for your bones. They contain dietary fiber and other nutrients to support good gut health and vitamin K, copper, and antioxidants to support healthy bones. If you're trying to find ways to swap in natural sugars into your diet like I did in my smoothie, prunes are there for you. I have a feeling there are some bakers listening. You guys probably already know how classic prunes are in French baking. I love baking a prune clafoutis because not only do the deep purple prunes look so beautiful in the light custard batter, but the fruit plumps up and gets even juicier when baked. And when I'm not baking with them, I'm snacking. I stash a container of prunes in my pantry for a sweet treat whenever I need it. And I pack a little bag of them to take on planes, usually paired with some salty almonds. For more info and recipes that range from prune cocktails to cakes, check out the California Prunes website at californiaprunes.org. That's californiaprunes.org.
Peeps, did you hear the news? Cherry Bombe's Jubilee conference is headed to Los Angeles this fall, and tickets are now on sale. It's taking place Sunday, September 28th at Hudson Loft in downtown L.A. It'll be a full day of inspiring conversations, delicious food and drink, and incredible community. Since 2014, this one-of-a-kind gathering has celebrated the voices and talents of women across the world of food, drink, restaurants, and hospitality. Now, it's L.A.'s turn, and we can't wait to give the city the love it deserves. Head to cherrybombe.com to learn more and get your tickets.
Let's chat with today's guest. Yewande, so excited to have you on She's My Cherry Pie and to talk mango shortcakes with you and so much more.
Yewande Komolafe:
Thank you so much for having me. It's so lovely to be here.
Jessie Sheehan:
So, you were born in Germany and moved to Nigeria with your family when you were pretty tiny, maybe two years old. And even though you might not actually recall any German sweets or baked goods that you ate there, your mom while in Nigeria would make you brandied fruit and maybe some German cookies from her time in Berlin. Can you tell us about any of those sweets that she was making?
Yewande Komolafe:
Of course. I distinctly remember my mom always making a stollen growing up and she would also make some scones that she would put the brandied fruit in. Those were two distinct things that I remember her making, even though scones are not typically German, but my mom also has a background in the U.K., so she always approached food from all of the different cultures that she had lived around.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. I also read that your favorite cookie is actually shortbread in its many iterations, and I wondered if there was any inspiration from Germany, and now maybe it sounds like the U.K., that might've inspired that early love and maybe still today's love of shortbread for you.
Yewande Komolafe:
Of course. I grew up eating Walker's Shortbread cookies, and I just remember the crisp, buttery scent of it all. It was the perfect crumb. Not cloyingly buttery, but it was just a perfect crumb where it was dissolving in your mouth.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love Walker's. I'm picturing it in my head right now, the red box, the plaid, the whatever it's called. And also, I too as a child when I was lucky enough to not get Chips Ahoy, which were not even good, and get Walker's instead. So good. And you wouldn't think kids would like them because they're not sandwiched with cream and all of that-
Yewande Komolafe:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
... but they're so good.
Yewande Komolafe:
And I'm finding out now that shortbreads are a very distinct taste. Most Americans that I know don't necessarily think of shortbread as a good thing, but I love shortbread.
Jessie Sheehan:
Totally.
Yewande Komolafe:
Shortbread everything.
Jessie Sheehan:
Right. So, you write in your book that classic Nigerian cuisine doesn't have a relationship to dessert like we do here in the U.S. But despite this lack of relationship, you baked a lot as a little girl in Nigeria, and I had two questions about that. First, were you baking and making desserts because of your family's time in Germany, coupled with the fact that your mom was a food scientist and worked for the Cadbury branch in Nigeria? And second question, can you please tell us about these Russian tea cakes that you were baking when you were little and giving to your dad to bring to work and putting in your lunch box? I want to hear all about those as well.
Yewande Komolafe:
That's so funny. I actually forgot that I wrote about that. But yeah, my relationship with baking was definitely my relationship with my mom. We've typically been able to talk about food, even if we can't talk about anything else. I would spend time in the kitchen with my mom just observing, honestly. I probably didn't start baking until I was a little older, where I would ask her all these questions about what she was doing and how she was doing it. And so she really instilled in me a love for food and a curiosity.
And so as I got older, I would take on different ambitious culinary projects in the kitchen, where it was just time to spend by myself. I grew up with two brothers, a younger one and an older one. It was just time away from them. So, my time in the kitchen was typically time by myself. I would make all kinds of different, good, or not creative ideas with food.
And with the specifically Russian tea cakes, I learned how to make them from reading through some of the cookbooks that my mom had. She used to have, I think it was Good Housekeeping, and there was a recipe for Russian tea cakes in there. I looked at the ingredients, I knew that we had all of them in the storage and that was something that I could make, and so I made them and everybody enjoyed them. And they travel really easily. I would just make different ones with different nuts to give to my dad to keep in his office for a snack.
Jessie Sheehan:
Can you remind us what a Russian tea cake is?
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, so it's a version of shortbread-
Jessie Sheehan:
Of course it is.
Yewande Komolafe:
... with or without nuts. After you bake off the shortbread, they're made in little circle rounds. They're baked like that. And there's no rising agent in it at all, so no baking powder, no baking soda. Just flour, butter, sugar. And that's essentially it. You roll it in these little circle rounds and bake it off, and so they come out baked round still, and then you dunk them in some butter and some additional powdered sugar.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yum.
Yewande Komolafe:
And like that, they keep for a week or so. So yeah, I used to make that pretty often.
Jessie Sheehan:
And when your mom was doing, she had these books, she was doing the baking that maybe you were observing her doing, was it all because of her job for Cadbury or for other brands or was it also that she loved to bake? Was it pleasure for her, or was this mostly work?
Yewande Komolafe:
I think cooking for my mom was always from a pleasure standpoint. It was just something that she enjoyed and she liked, and probably also just had time to herself in the kitchen. Yes, I think it was definitely pleasure first, but it was also because she was working as a food scientist.
Jessie Sheehan:
We'll be right back. Cherry Bombe's next print magazine is the Italy issue. And trust me, you're going to want a copy. This dreamy issue is all about la dolce vita with delicious recipes, beautiful photography, and stories that will transport you straight to the trattorias, bakeries, and gelato stands. The Italy issue will be out this September, and the only way to guarantee your copy is to subscribe at cherrybombe.com. I know you're going to love the cover star too, or cover stars. My lips are sealed for now. So, head to cherrybombe.com or click the link in our show notes to subscribe. Now, back to our guest.
Is it fair to say that your mom's job at Cadbury inspired your love of baking? If she had been a food scientist for a very different kind of company, do you think things would've been very different in terms of the sweets and baking at home? Or did she love it enough that she was probably going to be baking at home regardless of who she worked for?
Yewande Komolafe:
I would say she loved it enough that she was going to be doing it either way. I think that food is so inspiring in that way and it has branches in every aspect of your life because it cuts across social status. It cuts across class. It cuts across culture. There's so many things about food that help it put its branches in different aspects of an individual's life, so I think that it wasn't just because she worked in Cadbury. I think that she would've been working in food either way.
Jessie Sheehan:
I think this is how you expressed it, but that recipes were almost like her language. And it seems just from learning about you and reading your book that it became yours too. And I think maybe this is the same thing that you said about the way that you guys could always connect through food. It's like you both speak this recipe language.
Yewande Komolafe:
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's so cool because I feel like a lot of us, I actually didn't, but a lot of us might grow up with family members who bake or cook at home, and that's inspiring when we're little. But I think because of her work as a scientist, it was more than just she loved it. She had to understand the language of food, which can be recipes-
Yewande Komolafe:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
... in this very clinical way the way you and I do as food professionals. I find that so interesting.
Yewande Komolafe:
Absolutely. Yeah, no, exactly. I think that food has a particular way, and I'm sure it exists in language and in other aspects of people's lives, that intersection with other things where you can't be a feminist without thinking about food or you can't be a scientist without thinking about food. It's branches in different ways. I think that that's really more a testament to humans than anything else.
Jessie Sheehan:
Within your family, those branches or those roots run so deep. Is it right that you're the fourth generation of women-
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, fourth generation.
Jessie Sheehan:
... in your family to be in food?
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's so fascinating. It's funny because I would never have thought of what they did back then as being in food, but they were running restaurants. They were food professionals.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love this. You wrote when you were talking about project recipes versus not project recipes in the book, you were saying for you, Sundays growing up were this really fun day of the week because you were making yogurt with your mom, but now I understand you were also probably baking with her or at least observing her baking throughout the week, and just Sunday was more your project yogurt day.
Yewande Komolafe:
Exactly, yeah. There was always something in the corner of the kitchen that was either fermenting or developing flavor. There was always a glass, not a canister, like a glass jar, a large glass jar, what we'll think of as Cambros but glass, wrapped in kitchen towels, just sitting on the counter. When I tasted the kombucha here, I was like, oh my god, I recognize this flavor. But my mom was doing that back in the '80s.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that.
Yewande Komolafe:
It wasn't called kombucha, but it was just like fermenting tea.
Jessie Sheehan:
Right. I want you to tell us about her pantry because you said it was informed by her work in test kitchens at multinational food companies, so I'm assuming there's some chocolate there. But tell us, it must've been such an interesting pantry of more than one world, as it were. Do you know what I mean? A work world. A home world.
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, no, of course. The home pantry, I distinctly remember these five-pound bags of confections from all over the world that she would vacuum seal them, bring them home. And we couldn't touch it because it was for research. I'm like, "What is this research? What do you mean?" Or any trip that she would go on, she traveled back to the U.K., she went to the Middle East, she would bring back things like hummus and then vacuum seal it and then freeze it. So, the pantry was refrigerated and frozen, and then there was the dry pantry, what we think of in the U.S. as a pantry. So, it was all these cans of either grains that she was going to ferment later or whole food, whole spices, whole seeds, just things like that.
Jessie Sheehan:
You guys lived in the city, or your family lived in the city, but-
Yewande Komolafe:
We did.
Jessie Sheehan:
... your backyard, I read was like a vegetable farm with fruits and veggies and chickens and pigs and maybe even catfish. And I heard it described as your dad's garden, so was it his domain?
Yewande Komolafe:
Oh my gosh, Jessie, it was all... It wasn't a backyard. It was literally a farm in the city.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Yewande Komolafe:
So, imagine living in Brooklyn and then having pigs and chickens, catfish. Just anything that he could think of for food was goats. Oh my god, we never had a cow because that was just too big, but all of those things were different iterations of my childhood was raising farm animals in the garden.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. And did he cook too? I know he has a specialty in the book. I think it's a lapa with fresh catfish and dumplings.
Yewande Komolafe:
Yes, he did cook, but it was always such a big deal for him when he was cooking because he wanted you to see that he was cooking. So, it wasn't a relaxing thing. It was like, "Oh, I'm cooking. Here I am, cooking. Some people say I don't cook, but look at me." It was like a performance, almost.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love it. At 16, you came to the U.S. to go to college and ended up staying for culinary school. And you had planned when you came to college to follow in your mom's footsteps and study science, but you lost your brother soon after you arrived, and that gave both you and your parents this freedom to let you follow your passion, which you ended up realizing was food. Can you tell us about the, I thought this was so random, but the CIA brochure that had arrived in the mail at home before college that got you thinking?
Yewande Komolafe:
Okay, so before college, I was staying at my aunt's in Newark, New Jersey. She just used to get junk mail all the time, and sometimes she would just toss on or sometimes she would make me go through them. But I found a brochure for the CIA, and I was like, "I didn't know that you can get a degree and go to school to be a chef. What?" Anyway, so that stayed in my memory throughout college. Honestly, chemistry kicked my ass, and I pivoted and got a degree in psychology, but that whole time in my mind was just that thought that I can go to school to be a chef or a cook at least.
Jessie Sheehan:
And I loved that you said that you had never excelled at anything more in life.
Yewande Komolafe:
It's true. College for me, especially after I lost my brother, college, it was like a performance for me. I literally just got a degree because I was expected to and it didn't ever feel like I was cut out for it or was cut out for me at all. And so when I started culinary art school, I was like, oh my god, this all makes so much sense.
Jessie Sheehan:
When you were there, were you particularly drawn to the pastry program, or just all of it was inspiring for you?
Yewande Komolafe:
I think all of it was inspiring. That particular college that I went to, both programs, and I could graduate with a degree in both programs, so I have a culinary arts degree and then I have a pastry baking arts degree. Both programs were interesting to me.
Jessie Sheehan:
So, your student visa, and mistakenly feels like the wrong word, but because of certain circumstances, your visa ended up getting revoked the summer after your first year of culinary school, and so began, as you call it, your journey as an undocumented immigrant in the U.S., which precluded you from returning home to Nigeria for 18 years. So, you finished culinary school, you began work in restaurants. And I was a teeny bit unsure of the timeline. When you began your work in restaurants, were you starting as a pastry cook in fine French restaurants, I read, or was it-
Yewande Komolafe:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay, so that was right.
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah. So, I started as a pastry cook at a restaurant. Actually, it was a bake shop in Baltimore, Maryland and they had a pastry chef that worked at the bake shop, but he was also opening up a restaurant. So, I started at the bake shop, and then when he opened up the restaurant, I moved to the restaurant to be a pastry cook.
Jessie Sheehan:
You worked there, you were working as a pastry chef, you were working in different restaurants. I know you ended up at Milk Bar at one point. I think you were one of Christina's first employees, which is amazing. At that time in your life, you also started dipping your toes in food media jobs at Saveur. I just found this so interesting, Yewande. So, you described the restaurant world as this refuge of sorts for the undocumented, but in food media, which was what you eventually turned to, it was the same but so different. Can you unpack that difference for us?
Yewande Komolafe:
I think, and through the media, I felt accepted in the restaurant industry because I was two things. I was undocumented. I still was struggling with my identity. And then when I came into food media, it felt like this very buttoned-up world that I was definitely an outcast in, even though I had the knowledge. So, it just felt like two things going head-to-head where I started to slowly repress who I was because I felt that who I was wouldn't be accepted in food media.
Jessie Sheehan:
I just was so taken by the way you expressed this idea that in restaurants, who you were was just accepted because, first of all, so many of your coworkers were going to be undocumented as well, but just because it's a variety of human beings. And then you get into this food media world, where I think you wrote, "It wasn't even in anyone's ability to comprehend that they would think of you in that way." This, quote, undocumented way. I just thought that was so interesting and probably something, obviously, unless you're you, have not... People don't think about it. It's the same industry, but in those two different areas.
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, I never felt like I could speak to anyone about the things that were going on in a very real way in my life. I couldn't travel, obviously. I felt uncomfortable driving. There were so many things that were going on with me personally that just didn't feel there was space to consider in food media.
Jessie Sheehan:
I also thought this was so interesting and it's a great, I think, beginning of this conversation is a great segue into the book. In food media, you finally had the space to question this cuisine that you were primarily cooking. You were still cooking food Americans have come to identify as their cuisine in your new food media world, but in restaurants, it was so distracting. There was so much going on that you hadn't even begun to unpack that and think about that. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but is that a fair small example of what was going on for you?
Yewande Komolafe:
No, absolutely. I was still struggling to define myself, even as an American, even though by that point I'd been here for longer than I ever had been anywhere else. I realized that I wasn't seeing Black hands in photographs. I wasn't seeing anybody that looked like me. And food media is in such a way that it's visually intense. The food sells because it looks beautiful or the clothes sell because it looks great on this person, and so in those aspects of food media, I just didn't recognize any representation that I could adhere to. And so it came an inspiration for me to ask the questions to myself, what am I doing in food?
Jessie Sheehan:
So, I want to talk about your incredible book. I think it was in 2017, you were finally able to go home to Nigeria. And I read two different numbers. It was either 18 or 20 years. It was a long time.
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, exactly. It was a long time.
Jessie Sheehan:
And you write that the process of that reintegration and connection ended up being the basis for the book. Can you unpack that for us?
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah. It was an experience that had to happen. My nature is typically to just go ahead and experience it and then process it later. Now in hindsight, I know that that experience had to happen. I had to connect the dots because I used to talk about my childhood as something that I wasn't sure anymore whether or not it happened. I used to make up stories about my childhood and make up stories from what I thought I remembered. So, going back and seeing all these places for the first time just helped me begin to connect the dots. Taking that experience and then my training in food, it felt like the pieces started to come together once I started to let go of reservations that I had had because of fear and anxiety. I think the book is really a recording of all it took for me to get there and all beforehand.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love the book's organization, which is basically taking us through a week of Lagos's culinary life from the harried breakfast to the nighttime meals at the street vendors. And I loved this so much. You said that restaurant work is like reading a book with an ambulance outside of your window, and you said that Lagos is like that too. So, please explain that to us. I loved all of that.
Yewande Komolafe:
So, I was strongly thinking about all the times I had injured myself in restaurant work and how I had to go to the ER for one reason or the other, but gosh, Lagos is like that. Lagos is very unpredictable. I think that growing up here now, what I've come to define as everyday life doesn't exist in the same way in Lagos. Everyday life here means that you wake up, and New York at least, it means that you get to work or you're able to go to work and you have a 9:00 to 5:00 or whatever job that you have and you expect transportation to be working.
But in Lagos, I just experienced waking up. That was all I could do. It felt like I had to really strategically plan out my day, but also expect those plans to either work or not. I think that it's a very honest way to look at life, because if you're in New York, we never know what's going to happen. Something dramatic could happen and changes the entire life, but I think Lagosians are used to that happening every day. So, their ability, and I don't want to characterize them as superhuman, they're just human beings like you and I, but I find their ability to pivot so inspiring.
Jessie Sheehan:
I wanted to talk about the sweets chapter in the book. You write that Nigerian sweets are a category on their own, but can you describe that category for us?
Yewande Komolafe:
I think Nigerian sweets take a lot of inspiration from the fruits and vegetables that grow around them. And I think that the idea of a last course is different to the way many Nigerians, or maybe even in general West Africans, think about sweets. Because I think that it's not a course on its own, it's just throughout your day, throughout your week. There's always just fresh fruits and vegetables around and you get creative with what you have on hand. I think that the concept of having a Nigerian sweet is really about what's fresh and what's seasonal and what's available. Sweets could be a bowl of fruit drizzled with some honey, or not at all. It could be as simple or as elaborate as you want it to be.
Jessie Sheehan:
Can you tell us about your mom's friend's chin chin, which is in the book?
Yewande Komolafe:
Elijah's chin chin. Her chin chin was just like this very flat... It had been rolled out. It's like rolling out puff pastry till it's very thin, or phyllo dough till it's nice and thin and you can almost see through, and then cutting it into squares and frying it. And it was just the most beautiful, ethereal, crisp, delightful snack. And chin chin is something that if you go to someone's house for a visit, they'll put out a bowl of chin chin. It's just something that's widely available, so there are different versions of it that exist. Some very thick versions, crisp versions. My mom would bring Elijah's chin chin on her visit whenever she would come visit me because she knew I loved it so much.
Jessie Sheehan:
And what about Oma Georgia's chook chook?
Yewande Komolafe:
Oh, Oma Georgia's chook chook.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah.
Yewande Komolafe:
Oma Georgia is my grandmother, and she would always make these coconuts. The coconuts were readily available in different forms, milk, and she would use what had been discarded from making milk and compress it into chook chook. You deep-fry it, I think. I think the ones that I made might've been baked. She would deep-fry it, and it was coated in some sugar, so it would get nice and crystallized and just delicious.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yum. So, now I want to talk about the Mango Shortcakes with Lime-Coconut Cream.
Yewande Komolafe:
Of course.
Jessie Sheehan:
And the recipe appeared in the Times as part of a larger mango story. Can you tell us about the difference between eating a mango in Nigeria and eating a mango in New York City?
Yewande Komolafe:
So different. Completely different. Completely. I'm trying to get my kids to enjoy mangoes as much as I did growing up.
So, in Nigeria, with mangoes, we would press it all around with our fingers. And someone had to show us this, so we'd press it all around if it was ripe, press it all around to our fingers, take off the top with your teeth, and then the mango at this point would be all nice and juicy on the inside, and you would just suck it. And you would continue to do it, just massaging and rotating the mango in your hands. And you do that until it was running dry. We would eat the peels. That was another thing that was different. We would eat the mango peel, and then finally, you would arrive at the fruit, which was always the sweetest and the most acidic of all the mangoes. That essentially is exactly how we used to eat it.
In New York now, you gently plop off both sides in a cross-hatch pattern and scoop out the inside. It's like this whole... Why don't we just eat it like we did as kids? But I don't think it's the same thing now.
Jessie Sheehan:
So funny. It's so wasteful. Now, when I hear about how you were eating a mango versus the way I've always eaten a mango, I'm like, what am I doing? Why aren't I massaging my mango the way I massage my kale, and then sucking it?
Yewande Komolafe:
Definitely, yes, yes. Try it one day.
Jessie Sheehan:
All right, so first things first, with the recipe, we're going to prepare the shortcakes, and we're going to line a 9x13-inch baking sheet. And I'm assuming we can use a regular half-sheet pan.
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, a half-sheet pan.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep, with the parchment paper. And do you like to do a teeny bit of a spray of cooking spray or anything before the paper? Or do you just put the paper down, no grease?
Yewande Komolafe:
No, I just put the paper down, no grease.
Jessie Sheehan:
Me too. In a medium bowl. And I just wonder maybe when you're at home, not restaurant work, but homework, would you want a metal bowl? Would you want a glass bowl?
Yewande Komolafe:
I use metal bowls. I like how glass bowls look, but I think I just from my restaurant background, I always loved metal bowls.
Jessie Sheehan:
And we're going to grab a whisk. And is there a particular type of whisk you like? Do you like a balloon whisk? Do you like something skinnier?
Yewande Komolafe:
If I'm doing a medium bowl, I would probably use a skinnier whisk.
Jessie Sheehan:
So, medium bowl, skinnier whisk. We're going to combine some all-purpose flour, some granulated sugar, some unsweetened shredded coconut, and then we're going to add some baking powder and some baking soda. And I wondered about the soda, but is it a combination of we want it because we're going to use some buttermilk in this recipe and also just for a little extra lift, so we get some height on these guys?
Yewande Komolafe:
Both. It's for both. So, baking powder is great for lift, but baking soda spreads, and so it's great to have both, especially if you're using buttermilk because buttermilk is more acidic than cream.
Jessie Sheehan:
So, that's interesting. I feel like I should know this, but when you think of those two leaveners, you don't think of baking soda as also a lifter. You think of it as more of a spreader?
Yewande Komolafe:
It lifts a little. Not as much as baking powder.
Jessie Sheehan:
And we're going to add some kosher salt. So, we're going to whisk those dry ingredients together. And then working quickly, we can use our fingers. We can use a pastry cutter at this point. And I just wondered, do you have a preference? If you're at home, are you using your fingers or are you a pastry-
Yewande Komolafe:
Definitely fingers.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep, me too. We're going to rub some cold salted butter into this dry mixture until the pieces are the size of small pebbles. And I wondered about the salted. Is that your go-to with baking, you're always choosing salted, or is that special for this recipe?
Yewande Komolafe:
I prefer salted butter because I know that you can't really tell how much salt you're adding to the mix, but I think going with salted butter just gives me that reassurance that it's going to taste like something. I go back and forth with that, but I do really enjoy using salted butter.
Jessie Sheehan:
You also say that you can use the food processor to pulse the dry ingredients with the butter, but do you ever?
Yewande Komolafe:
So, I learned this when I worked at Pies 'n' Thighs. We would make our biscuit dough in large batches. So, we would make the dry ingredients first, and then we would then combine with the buttermilk later. So, we would make huge 40 gallons of dry mix, and then we would always have biscuit mix on hand, so if we ever ran out, we could just grab a certain amount of the dough and then mix it with the buttermilk and just pop it in the oven. So, I never really use the food processor unless I'm making a double or triple batch.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep, it makes sense. I just hate it because I hate cleaning things.
Yewande Komolafe:
Cleaning it. Yeah, that makes sense.
Jessie Sheehan:
So then we're going to make a well in the center of our bowl. We're going to add an egg yolk. And I know we're going to use the white for the egg wash in a little while. If you weren't going to use the white, do you just want the egg yolk on its own anyway because you want the unctuousness, the fat, and you don't really want the drying and the binding white? Or is it just a move that you're making because you know you're going to need something for an egg wash?
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah. See, this is a thing about writing recipes in this way is that my preference is to use egg yolks, but if you must, just use the whole egg. I also know that I have enough of a background to know that if I adjust in one way, I have to adjust in another way. So, you almost have to understand how recipes work and how ratios work. But if you're adding more liquid, if you're doing a whole egg, then you have to maybe add a bit more flour because you'll get a sticky dough. I would say go with yolk only because that's how that particular recipe works. But if you must, just use the whole egg and adjust.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. Now, we're going to stir that all up with a wooden spoon to incorporate. Can we use our hands now, or do you not like to get your hands in at this point?
Yewande Komolafe:
You can use your hands now. Just know that you'll have to scrape it off because it gets clumpy.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. Now, we're going to add our buttermilk. And it's okay if the buttermilk is cold or do we actually want it to be cold?
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, cold buttermilk.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. And we're going to add a tablespoon at a time. And are we doing that because we might not actually need to use all of it, depending on the humidity in our kitchen, et cetera?
Yewande Komolafe:
Exactly, yep.
Jessie Sheehan:
Until a shaggy dough forms. Then we're going to transfer the dough to our lightly floured work surface, and we're just pressing the clumps and the shaggy bits together until they form a slightly uniform piece. So, there's no real kneading. Just pressing it. I love that.
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, you're not really kneading because you don't really want to develop more gluten, so pressing it together just does that for you.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, I love that. And we're going to lightly dust the top of the dough with some more flour, and then we're either going to pat or we're going to roll. Do you like to roll or are you just patting? And are you just giving the-
Yewande Komolafe:
I like to roll.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, okay. Do you have a favorite rolling pin?
Yewande Komolafe:
The one with the tapered end.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep.
Yewande Komolafe:
A wooden one.
Jessie Sheehan:
So, we're going to roll into an eight-inch square, and then we're going to use either a sharp knife or a bench scraper. And I wondered if, do you have a preference?
Yewande Komolafe:
I think a bench scraper works just as well as a knife.
Jessie Sheehan:
And we're going to cut into 12 squares. And I'm assuming, I love squares because of the lack of waste, but I'm assuming, is that your thinking rather than doing rounds?
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
And we're going to transfer the shortcakes to that prepared baking sheet. We're going to cover. Are you covering with a piece of plastic wrap or something?
Yewande Komolafe:
Just a kitchen towel.
Jessie Sheehan:
Kitchen towel. And we're going to chill the squares in the refrigerator for at least 30 minutes and up to 12 hours. Would you ever pop them in the freezer for maybe a little less time or to overnight them?
Yewande Komolafe:
Oh, yeah. Oh my god, they freeze beautifully.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay, great.
Yewande Komolafe:
And then you can pop them... You don't even have to defrost. You could just pop them in the oven.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then we're going to heat the oven to 350 degrees. And I have to say, I always love this about The New York Times, and I do it myself, I love not having to say preheat. I love that we just are heating our ovens. There's no pre about it.
And then in a small bowl, we're going to whisk that reserved egg white with two tablespoons of room temperature water. Is that in general Yewande's go-to egg wash, or just in this instance because we're making use of that white?
Yewande Komolafe:
We're making use of that white, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Do you have a go-to egg wash? Do you add a little salt or do you add cream?
Yewande Komolafe:
Just cream.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, me too. Why do we need the water with the egg wash?
Yewande Komolafe:
To dilute the egg wash a little bit.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, and break up the white a little.
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, and break up the white. Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
So, we're going to brush our squares with this egg white water mixture and sprinkle with additional sugar. Do you ever use turbinado or do you like to use granulated because it's called for in the recipe?
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, because called for in the recipe. But I do love the crunch of turbinado.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, me too. This is something weird that I do that I wanted to ask your opinion of. I'm one of those people who likes to get everything done. Before I'm chilling, I'm always egg washing and sprinkling and doing all of that before my chill. Do you think that's weird?
Yewande Komolafe:
I don't know. I don't think it's weird. Does it still have a crunchy top when-
Jessie Sheehan:
A hundred percent, yeah. I don't see a difference, and I like it because I feel like I'm dirtying everything up and then I can put everything-
Yewande Komolafe:
And then... Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah, that's great.
Jessie Sheehan:
So then we're going to bake until cooked through. Are we looking for lightly bronze tops and bottoms?
Yewande Komolafe:
Lightly set, I think. Lightly set. A little golden brown around the edges.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then we're going to rotate the baking sheet once. And I have to say, I love a rotating instruction. I think it's just like my bakery days, but I'm always so surprised when people just don't rotate just because ovens are so-
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, they're so fickle.
Jessie Sheehan:
They're so fickle. And we're going to bake for about 20 to 25 minutes, and then we're going to remove the shortcakes from the oven. We'll allow it to cool completely on a rack set inside a baking sheet.
Now, we're going to prepare the filling. So, in a medium bowl, we're going to combine some just ripe mangoes cut into half-inch cubes and some granulated sugar. And then using a grater or a microplane, we're going to zest a lime right into the bowl with the mangoes, add the juice from that lime, and a pinch of kosher salt and black pepper. And I wanted to ask you about the black pepper because just recently I was working on a raspberry cobbler and I kept trying to put black pepper into the raspberry filling, and maybe it was because it was cooked, but I kept putting pepper in and still the flavor was not popping.
Yewande Komolafe:
And you wouldn't taste it?
Jessie Sheehan:
It was so strange. And I wonder-
Yewande Komolafe:
How much did you put?
Jessie Sheehan:
Well, I was starting with, at first I was too ginger maybe, I was gingerly adding it, so it was maybe a half teaspoon, three-quarters of a teaspoon. But I got up to a teaspoon of black pepper to maybe seven or eight cups of berries. And though, Yewande, as I say this, I wonder if it's that my pepper wasn't very flavorful. I thought this was going to be a really interesting talking point for me and you, but as I'm saying it out loud, I'm like, I wonder how fresh those peppercorns were.
Yewande Komolafe:
It could have lost its essence.
Jessie Sheehan:
Totally. Because I'm assuming you get a little pop from that pepper with the mango.
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, a little. Just a hint.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, I love that.
Yewande Komolafe:
Which is nice.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then we're going to combine that with a wooden spoon or a flexible spatula. We'll set it aside either on the counter or in the refrigerator. And is that depending, where you set it aside, is that depending on when you want to eat it or is it the idea that you can-
Yewande Komolafe:
It does.
Jessie Sheehan:
Can you eat it room temp versus refrigerated?
Yewande Komolafe:
Oh, yeah, it's great room temp. It's just as good room temp as it is refrigerated. I think it might even be better.
Jessie Sheehan:
Room temp. And then does the mango macerate? Does it end up releasing a lot of juice?
Yewande Komolafe:
It releases juice, but just enough that when you put the mango on top, because you're adding some of the mango juice over the top, it rehydrates the shortcake. And then also, it's just pleasant to be able to dip your shortcake crumb.
Jessie Sheehan:
So, now we're going to make our coconut whipped cream. So, on a parchment-lined sheet pan, we're going to scatter some unsweetened shredded coconut, toast in a 325-degree oven for about three minutes. And are we just looking for that maybe the tips of some of them will be lightly brown?
Yewande Komolafe:
Lightly brown.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then we'll cool completely. And then in a bowl of the stand mixer fitted with the whisk attachment, we'll add heavy cream, granulated sugar. I was wondering if you would ever make whipped cream with powdered sugar. Is this another using the granulated because we already have it in the recipe, or are you a granulated sugar person?
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, because we already have it.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. And mix on medium-high speed until smooth and fluffy, about one to two minutes. And then we'll add the toasted coconut to the whipped cream and mix in gently. For that stage, are we doing that by hand?
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, that's something that you could do by hand. You're just really folding it with a spatula.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then to serve, once completely cooled, we'll cut each shortcake in half crosswise, top the bottom halves with two spoonfuls of mango, drizzle some of the syrup from the bowl, and top with the coconut whipped cream and the other half of the shortcakes. Oh my gosh, so delicious.
I just wanted you to tell us about two more recipes from the book. They spoke to me. One is the gurudi, or coconut chip cookies.
Yewande Komolafe:
Oh yeah. Gurudi is a cornstarch and coconut cookie. It's more like a cracker, actually. And I think for this recipe, I baked it. And it's really simple. It's cornstarch, desiccated coconut, probably some sugar, some salt. And then we just spread that on a flat baking sheet and then bake it off. But you want to bake it off and then crack it and then put it back in the oven to toast it off so it's nice and crunchy.
Jessie Sheehan:
Is this the recipe where some people might slice it into perfect squares, but you like to break it with your hands?
Yewande Komolafe:
Yeah, I love having to break it with my hands because it just gives it that rustic element to it.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then the other thing I wanted you to tell us about was the mosa, the plantain fritters.
Yewande Komolafe:
Oh, yes. So, mosa is something that I grew up eating. I don't remember if it was called a banana fritter or plantain, but you wait for the plantains to be very ripe, where they're just at their sweetest, where most people wouldn't want to eat them. But I love black plantains. That's just me. Oh, so wait for them to be very ripe. And then it gets combined with corn, some egg, some form of dairy or milk, and then we use a spoon to drop spoonfuls in a fryer and fry them. And they're not sweetened. All the sweetness is typically from the plantains. But they were so delicious, and they were something that my mom and my grandmom made.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yum. Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today, Yewande. And I just want to say that you are my cherry pie.
Yewande Komolafe:
Thank you so much, Jessie. You're so lovely.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's it for today's show. Thank you to California Prunes for supporting our show. Don't forget to follow She's My Cherry Pie on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. And tell your pals about us. She's My Cherry Pie is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Our producers are Kerry Diamond, Catherine Baker, and Jenna Sadhu. Thank you so much for listening to She's My Cherry Pie, and happy baking.