Zaynab Issa Transcript
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Hi, everyone. You're listening to The Future Of Food Is You, a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Abena Anim-Somuah, and each week I talk to emerging talents in the food world and they share what they're up to as well as their dreams and predictions for what's ahead. As for me, I'm the founder of The Eden Place, a community that's all about gathering people intentionally around food. I love this new generation of chefs, bakers, and creatives making their way in the world of food, drink, media, and tech.
Today's guest is Zaynab Issa. She's a writer, recipe developer and founder of Taste,Good, a social campaign that supports charities through hosting fun food forward events. We talk about her upbringing as a third culture kid, the lessons she learned from her time in the Bon Appetit tescachen, and how she is managing her time as a freelancer, as well as why she decided to use her platform to give back to the world. Stick around to hear more about her debut cookbook coming out in 2025.
Thank you to Kerrygold for supporting The Future Of Food Is You. Kerrygold is the iconic Irish brand, famous Rich. Its rich butter and cheese made in Ireland with milk from grass fed cows. The holidays are here and I'll certainly be celebrating with Kerrygold. I'm participating in a few cookie swaps this December and Kerrygold's Pure Irish Unsalted Butter Sticks are on my ingredient list. I think I'll be making some classic gingerbread and a few cranberry orange squares. And what are the holidays without a cheeseboard? Kerrygold Scalic and Kerrygold Aged Cheddar are perfect snacking cheeses. They pair well with my favorite water crackers and delicious cured meats like a good mortadella or prosciutto. Add honey jam or some fresh fruit to round out your grazing spread. If hor d'oeuvres are your jam, turn to Kerrygold Cashew Blue Farmhouse Cheese. There are endless possibilities and you can make some blue cheese fig bites, whipped blue cheese krasinies, or just sneak in a few little nibbles as you're preparing your big feast. Make the most of your holiday season with Kerrygold. Look for their butter and cheese at your favorite supermarket, specialty grocery store or cheese shop. Visit kerrygoldusa.com for recipes, product information, and a store locator. Happy holidays.
Now let's check in with today's guest. Zaynab, thank you so much for coming on The Future Of Food Is You podcast.
Zaynab Issa:
Thank you for having me.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Where did you grow up and how did food show up in your life?
Zaynab Issa:
Okay. I grew up in Northern New Jersey and food showed up in my life in the home. My grandmother lived with us for a good part of my childhood. The kitchen was her domain. She is a very, very, very specific cook. She takes it very seriously and that was how I started getting into the kitchen and then also TV. The Food Network was Channel 29 and Disney Channel was Channel 31, and I would just flip between the two on commercials always, and then eventually it just stopped even bothering watching Disney Channel and just sat through and watched “Barefoot Contessa,” “Giada at Home,” “Semi-Homemade.” All of those shows definitely influenced the way that I cook today, but I would say between my grandmother, my mom, and those TV shows, that's where my love for cooking and food began.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Your family is originally from India?
Zaynab Issa:
So originally from India migrated to East Africa, like generations of people in East Africa, and then from there migrated all over the place. I have family in London, Florida, New York, New Jersey now. My parents immigrated and I think the '80s.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
When you think about the dishes that your mom and your grandma were making or even your relatives, what were some of the dishes that were at the table for the most part?
Zaynab Issa:
So kuku paka is number one.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I love that.
Zaynab Issa:
I know it's great. That is like a chicken braised in a turkey coconut milk. It's so good. You can also do that with fish and it's called machu paka. Machu means fish, kuku means chicken, and then there's also biryani, kojo biryani, Swahili biryani. It's very specific. It's not like the biryani that you find in India at all, it's very saucy. There's both goat and beef, sometimes only goat. Super delicious.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. Goat is also a big parallel between African and Indian cuisine.
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah, exactly.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Zaynab Issa:
The spices that are used feel very Indian, but then the cooking method, the introduction of tomato is not as. What else is there? There's so many. There's barazi, which is pigeon peas in coconut. There's chuku chuku or mix, which is a turmeric potato soup that you have with shredded cassava that's super crunchy, crunchier than kettle cooked chips, if you can even imagine that. And then there's bajiya which also has Indian roots that you would put in mix. There's ndizi mbichi, which is a banana plantain that gets braised in coconut milk as well. It's super thick, sweet. There's a lot of coconut for sure.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow.
Zaynab Issa:
A lot of spices. It's a very interesting mix of Middle Eastern food, Indian food, and the local cuisine, like ugali and stuff like that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, ugali and pop.
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah, exactly.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You're super lucky you were able to have a beautiful family that really used food as the core. You got to experience such authentic dishes in so many ways. For yourself. When did you start to feel like food had become a way for you to share and care with the people around you?
Zaynab Issa:
Probably when I was eight or nine, I realized that it would make my sisters like me.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That is important. Yeah, you got to know your audience.
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah. If I knocked on their door without something, they would not let me in, but if I had a molten chocolate lava cake, I was allowed to come in.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, say less.
Zaynab Issa:
The kitchen was where my family spent the most time, so it just was a natural expression of love. Like, "Oh, okay, this is how I can show up for us. If I make something, everyone will come downstairs." When my sister's making something, she'll let me help. A time for family bonding, which I've always really valued. I love their company, they're my favorite people.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So when you were in college, you published Zine that was all about food. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about it and then how did that start to impact relationship to food now that you were almost on a different side or a different angle of it?
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah. When I think about that zine, it's truly crazy because while I was cooking a lot as a young teen, probably up until 16, I was cooking a lot. I tried to go to culinary school and my parents just didn't think it would be lucrative, and they were like, "No, you got a full scholarship to this finance school. You're going to do finance." And I was like, "Okay, I guess this is it." And then at the same time I was... I don't know where this narrative of cooking being this ultra domesticated supporter of the patriarchy, everyone that's in the kitchen is stepped on kind of vibe, was really running through my head. And I sort of lost touch of loving to cook because I felt like it was pushing an agenda that I didn't support. If I'm going to continue to cook and love to cook, I'm supporting men, you know what I mean? And not uplifting myself. Which is very much so a community narrative for me, it's definitely rooted in a lot of women in my community taking that more traditional homemaker path. I just kind of stepped away from it. It stopped being something that was bringing me that much joy and I was pursuing other things.
And then the Zine came about because in my senior year of college, I was in... My minor was art. I was in the thesis course. The task for the semester was to create a project that was a commentary on the political climate in the US at the time, which Trump was in office, things were very funky. People were very all over the place, and when I thought about how do you get people to talk about things that make them uncomfortable and maybe have differing opinions better than with food and creating a space of... Okay, already both of us know that we need to eat, so we're already reminded of how similar we are on a human level. And so from there, I thought about all of these recipes that I've been eating my whole life that I've never seen any real public representation for. And I was like, "Hmm, let me try and document these recipes."
At that same time, COVID hit, I ended up being at home and having the time to cook like that and test these recipes and keep cooking. And FaceTime my mom, FaceTime my grandma, get them to show me and cook alongside with me. It was really... The timing was... It's crazy to think about. Then when I submitted the project, my professor was just like, "You need to publish this." And at the same time, I had been posting what I was eating on TikTok. Less so recipes that were developed by me, but more so this is how I cook and this is what I make kind of vibes, more of a diary of what I was eating and what I was making. And the two just coincided at the same time, and so I was like, "You know what? Let me just take a chance." I remember wanting to print 50 books. I was like, "Maybe I can sell 50." And my husband was like, "No, we're going to print 500." And I was like, "No, we're not going to do that." He's like, "No, we're going to print a thousand." I was like, "What am I going to do with a thousand copies of this?"
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Sell them all.
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah. And then just through the TikTok growing through me feeling the pressure of literally boxes of these sitting in my room and just being like, "okay, I have to sell these." All a thousand sold, which is crazy.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's awesome. It seems like you really are empowered to not just by food being this way for you to connect, but also a way for you to build community.
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And so you talked about your TikTok. What was the inspiration for getting on TikTok and how do you think it also helped you develop that relationship?
Zaynab Issa:
I think I was bored. I was taking classes. I had just left my internship at The Knot in January because I went to go study abroad. And then when I came back, that's when COVID started hitting, so I didn't have an internship or a job and I was just taking classes. And I was like, "Okay, I guess here we are." I got on TikTok because I was bored and I started consuming the content. And I was like, "Okay, I feel like I could do this." And it was really just random. I didn't think anyone would ever really see the videos. The first one is atrocious, you can go watch it. I leave it up there to remind myself.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Like, "Stay humble. Remember your roots." What was it about?
Zaynab Issa:
I'll tell you all about it so you don't have to watch it. It was Jerrelle Guy's strawberry spoon cake.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes.
Zaynab Issa:
An iconic recipe, phenomenal cake. I make it every year and it was just me filming myself doing that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Did you have the hands and pans or is it more just classic “Barefoot Contessa” shot over the counter?
Zaynab Issa:
No, no, no. I think it was hands and pans.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Nice.
Zaynab Issa:
Definitely did not have the balls to be in any videos, I still don't.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's funny you say that because you end up working at Bon Appetit, especially after the whole, let's call it, fiasco that happened there in 2020. How did you get the job?
Zaynab Issa:
Emily Schultz, I guess was following me on TikTok and Instagram and at the time that I was pushing the Zine. I think I sent it to her or something and she connected me with Chris Morocco and Andy Baraghani, and I did a video interview. But with no purpose, I didn't know why I was doing it. And I remember walking them through a recipe that was in the Zine, cooking it for them over Zoom and just chatting with them about why they chose to stay there considering everything that was happening. And I resonated with what they were saying that if you want to fix something, you have to do the work. So I understood their perspective. I feel like I did that Zoom in the fall or winter of 2020, and then I think I got the job the following year, 2021 in August. So it was a very long interview process. I remember them being specifically concerned naturally about me not having been to culinary school and that generally being a highly desired trade of someone who gets the job as food editor.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Or even having culinary experience because some people haven't been to culinary school, but they've worked in restaurants, they know the lay of the land, the lay of the kitchen.
Zaynab Issa:
And I had only ever done front of house jobs at restaurants, never back of house. I loved the back of house dynamic, but I just never ended up. By the time I decided that I wasn't going to be in food, I just never bothered again. And then I remember I took a job at Buzzfeed in the spring I think. And at that same time, I'm a month in Chris Morocco emails me being like, "Hey, we have an opening and we'd love for you to interview." And I was like, "Oh, I'm actually at Buzzfeed right now, so sorry." And then two and a half months in, I remember feeling like, "All right, I don't know how I feel about this." Just like the content machine of it all. I mean, to be honest, I didn't know that wherever you go it's going to be a content machine. It felt very churn over there and so that is not... There's nothing wrong with it, everyone's got to do it but it just wasn't resonating with me as much as I had hoped it would.
So I emailed him back being like, "If that's still open, I would love to interview." And then I ended up interviewing the... I feel like the hiring process took forever, maybe two or three months of just meeting different people. I had a call with Christina Che, I had another call with Chris. I sent in an edit test and when I got the job, obviously I was ecstatic. Definitely a dream job in so many ways. And yeah, I crossed over with Andy for a little bit. That was really lovely. He taught me a lot in the two days that we worked together because my first story he was working on as well, so we worked closely on that one. Obviously in that environment you're encountering so many ultra talented people, so you learn a lot.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. Don't miss the new holiday issue of Cherry Bombe's print magazine, host with the most. It features culinary superstar Molly Baz on the cover. Inside the issue you'll find recipes perfect for gatherings, hosting tips from the Chicest food folks around, and a fun gift guide. You can get a copy or subscribe at cherrybombe.com. Or you can find a copy at one of our amazing retailers like Kitchen Arts and Letters in New York City, Smoke Signals in San Francisco, and Matriarch in Newport, Rhode Island. You can check cherrybomb.com for our complete list of retailers.
I will say, I mean I know you're sitting here, but I do love your videos. They are very comforting.
Zaynab Issa:
Oh, thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Was there anything that you learned in that time from your career that you think has really helped you right now? You mentioned you hadn't gone to culinary school, you hadn't really been on camera cooking, teaching people. A lot of your food was more just to make and make people be happy.
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah, definitely. Crash course culinary school. Everyone in that environment was so, so warm to me. They taught me so much. I learned how to skin a fish from Chris Morocco.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow.
Zaynab Issa:
So just random things that as a home cook you never really encounter. How often do you need to skin a fish? But now I know how to do it. So I learned tons of technical skills, but also I think... Honestly, I'm not the best public speaker, and so to be able to do the videos. I remember dreading the day they were going to ask me to be on the YouTube channel because-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You can't tell.
Zaynab Issa:
Still to this day, if they ask me again, I haven't done it in so long. I feel like I would be like, "Let me think." You know what I mean?
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes.
Zaynab Issa:
For me, I never got used to it. The nerves always hit. It's a very vulnerable position to be in. There's so many things happening. Not only am I trying to cook well and know my recipe, I'm also trying to explain to you why I'm doing what I'm doing and tell you that I'm doing it all at the same time. And it really does of a village to make one of those videos. You know what I mean? So there's so much going into it. There's a potential for so many people to see it. Obviously putting yourself in that position also, you have to be ready for criticism, which is inevitable. So being able to do that is probably the thing that I'm most proud of that I did there was say yes to doing that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What advice would you give to someone who's in your shoes? Let's say they're a new grad, really want to work at a big food publication, but aren't quite sure how to make that right step.
Zaynab Issa:
Prove that you have the skills that you've been working at them. I don't think had I not had so many internships, albeit not in food, but in media and editorial, combined with the online resume of my socials that I would've gotten the job. But I think I was proving that I had the skills in other ways, even though it wasn't in this exact I'm a recipe developer kind of way, that made that company want to take the chance on me, and that's where I got to hone those skills even further.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So you decided to leave Bon Appetit and go freelance. What motivated that decision?
Zaynab Issa:
Honestly, I haven't talked about this at all just because, I don't know, I don't think anyone cares. But-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I care.
Zaynab Issa:
My sister got really sick in May of this year. She got diagnosed with a really specific form of thyroid cancer. She lives in Florida. And so just honestly between heading back and forth to Florida, my cookbook supposed to be... The manuscript was supposed to be submitted in September. It was just a very trying time. I knew I would not be able to finish the cookbook combined with the work that I was doing there. It is very similar work and I'm the kind of person that whatever the most imminent task is in front of me will get my best. And so anytime I would get assigned a story, I'm pulling ideas that probably should have been in the cookbook for the magazine. So there's that toss up of like, "Oh, I don't want to save it. I want to use it for this. It works for this."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And there's rules too about what you can publish and what you can have in your cookbook.
Zaynab Issa:
Exactly. Yeah. So my cookbook, the premise is on identity and there's only so many that I can pull on. So it just felt like the right time. I think I learned a ton, I enjoyed my colleagues thoroughly. But between just all of the external factors combined with the cookbook, I was just like, "Okay, this feels like if there's ever a time, this is it."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I'm sorry to hear about your sister and I hope she's doing okay.
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah, she is for sure.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. That's so great to hear. You did bring up your book and it seems like that was a really big decision and wanting to have more time to focus on them. Because it is a lot to be-
Zaynab Issa:
It's a huge undertaking. It's crazy to me. I don't know how anyone does it ever.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You gave a little hint about it's about identity and it's coming out in 2025. I'm really excited for that.
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah, my publisher was gracious enough to let me push it. So now the manuscript is due in March.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
There you go.
Zaynab Issa:
And then 2025 is the published date, hopefully.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You talk a little bit about it being about identity. What lies underneath that?
Zaynab Issa:
I think of myself as your quintessential third culture kid. I feel like I have fused the culture that my parents have very much with the culture of the place that I've grown up, which is America. I also think of American food as not being hamburgers, french fries, hot dogs. I feel like all of the cultures that are present in America, all of the elements of them that end up showing up, that's American food, that's reflective of the people that live here. I guess the narrative of the book is American food through my lens, what do I consider to be American food? There's also going to be some more traditional recipes in there as well because that's such a big part of my life. So in a lot of ways it's like a biography and recipes kind of thing.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I grew up a third culture kid, so I grew up confused because I feel like you're never enough for one place and you're never enough for the place that your parents came from. How do you think about preserving culture while fussing techniques? And how is that almost giving you a sense of clarity on that like, "I'm just going to be someone who exists differently in a lot of places.”
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah. That's truly the reality of my existence. As long as I try and be one thing or the other, I'm never actually being myself. And I think when it comes to recipe development, definitely you have to continue to cite. Like anything else, you cite your references. I'm not going to pretend like I thought of a beefy, braised tomato and onion dish over a bed of rice. I didn't, it comes from somewhere else and I'm going to tell you where it came from and that's my responsibility. Everything comes from somewhere. There's definitely original and unique ideas, but it came from somewhere else and I feel like we have a responsibility to mention it at the very least.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
When you are thinking about the recipe development for this book, where are you drawing inspiration for?
Zaynab Issa:
Oh my God.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
If you were to cast a mood board, what does it look like?
Zaynab Issa:
There's a lot of... Honestly, my inspiration is a lot of nostalgia, tons of dishes in there that are just like, "This dish brings me comfort." So nostalgia is definitely huge inspiration. And then also just travels, the people I've encountered, the people I've met through living in New York and New Jersey. Yeah, I would say it's mostly my life.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
We're huge manifesters on the podcast.
Zaynab Issa:
Yes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So I have to ask, is there a dream recipient for the book?
Zaynab Issa:
Honestly, I feel like because I can't even imagine a tangible version of it. I'm like, "I just want it to enter my mom's hands."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so cute.
Zaynab Issa:
If that happens I would be psycho.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, I can't wait for the video just of that. I love when people show videos of their family receiving the book, that's so special.
Zaynab Issa:
And she's such a huge part of my life and my cooking and she's such a huge support for me. If she ever gets to see it and hold it, which it feels like, "How am I going to finish this huge task right now?" That'll feel like a huge accomplishment.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You can and you definitely will. I also want to talk to you about your initiative, Taste, Good.
Zaynab Issa:
Oh, yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What was the inspiration behind this charity initiative?
Zaynab Issa:
So Taste, Good is basically a series of events mostly focused around food that are intended to have a charitable component. The idea of a social club of people who like to do good was another thesis project in college. At the time it was called OMSs and it was more of a charity consultant vibe. Just because I feel like, and I still do feel like, most people don't know about so many charitable initiatives that are doing incredible work. Obviously they don't have the bandwidth to market the same way like American Heart Association does or St. Jude's. Not to say that those aren't doing incredible work, but there's a level of admin fees associated there that don't apply here. And so your money goes further, and so if you're going to be donating, I think you should put your money where it's going to really do a lot of work.
That was that idea. I didn't have the network, I didn't have the resources. It was just a thought. Fast-forward two years, I'm starting to see becoming more of an influencer doing branded deals. And I'm like, "If I can push product, I feel like I can push charities." So Taste, Good is basically a marketing firm for all the charities that don't have the funds to market. And I hope that I can keep doing it, I can't believe it's out in the world. But now it's more so about the keeping the momentum, being able to organize more events, getting people excited. This first one was invite only just because I wanted to work out the kinks with a very intimate group of people. And there definitely were, there are with every first time thing. But now I want to open it up to other people, hopefully make it ticketed, definitely do a wide variety of events. I don't want it to just be dinners. I would love to do a movie screening, I would love to do a picnic, a bake sale, that kind of stuff. Just bring people together over a shared cause and hopefully bring some awareness to some organizations that are doing really incredible things.
We benefited The Migrant Kitchen Initiative, which is completely externally funded, so their enterprise, The Migrant Kitchen, funds The Migrant Kitchen Initiative, so every single dollar that's donated goes straight to the cause. Which is really unique to have no admin fees associated with your donation. And the way that they present the meals is... They're just so detail oriented. They make sure that if you're Muslim, you're not getting a meal with pork in it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You're considered.
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah, if you're picking up from a community fridge, chances are you're microwaving that food, so the container that it's given to you in needs to be microwaved safe, those small things make such a difference. It was beautiful to be benefiting them. For the first one, we were able to raise a good amount of money, which is so nice. It's basically social campaigns for charities.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I'm really excited for this new refreshing take on charity and people feeling like they could really contribute and have a good time.
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah, I want to work with a ton of people. So if anyone who's listening wants to work together on it, hit me up.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Let's manifest some charity on here. How are you able to balance all these different aspects of food media that you're in? And how do you think about rest in regards to the creativity that you need from all these different places?
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah. I'm definitely someone who ebbs and flows in phases for sure. I have periods where I'm really head down and then I have periods where I am fully couch potato kind of vibe. I'm definitely more of a homebody, so rest is super important to me and sometimes that means saying no to events that I would have loved to show up to. But that's the thing that usually drops off for me is the social component, which sucks, but something's got to give.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Especially in New York, I feel like that's-
Zaynab Issa:
Oh my god.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
If you're not outside-
Zaynab Issa:
I know you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You don't know what's going on.
Zaynab Issa:
There's something every single night. It's amazing because people really love to get together here and that's beautiful. But sometimes I'm just like, "Ooh."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Netflix and takeout. Yeah, not takeout for you because you're a professional cook.
Zaynab Issa:
No, I love takeout. Ramen noodle is my best friend.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh my gosh, love that. Is there a piece of advice that you've received from a mentor? Because it sounds like you have been so blessed by learning from others and it gives you a lot of joy. Is there something that you've learned from someone that you almost pass down to others who reach out? Because I'm sure so many people reach out to you being like, "I love what you do. I want to do it. How do I get started?"
Zaynab Issa:
This is something that I've picked up through talking to people and basically asking higher ups at all of the jobs and internships I've had. "What makes someone stand out to you? What makes you want to keep them on your team?" And they just say someone who takes initiative and tries, and that's what I mean when I say if you want to get into food media, show that you can be in food media by displaying your skills outside of the field. So I think just showing up and trying and putting your best foot forward always is genuinely the best piece of advice. You don't need a brand behind you to take beautiful photos of food to go out to a restaurant, document the things that you're already doing and use them as your resume.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. It is truly amazing how many people have... Just a simple iPhone can produce so much content.
Zaynab Issa:
Go on LinkedIn, look up people doing the jobs that you want to do, find them on Instagram, shoot them a DM, shoot your shot. And know that the opportunities that do end up falling in your lap, you're ready for you wouldn't be there if you weren't.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Something I've loved about you as a fellow woman of color is how much you are true to who you are and true to the fact that you are.
Zaynab Issa:
Thank so much.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, I think especially for a lot of us who've grown up, third culture kids, especially in America. How do you hope that your work inspires more women and specifically women of color?
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah. I think the biggest thing is seeing people doing the things that you want to do. Even to this day, sometimes I look around and I'm like, "Who could I talk to about this? You know what I mean?" And that means that we need more. And also just remembering that you could be that person but you don't necessarily need to look to someone else. You could be the person that people look to, so don't feel like just because you don't see it can't happen. It definitely is harder. I'm not going to say that it's not, but I guess be the change you wish to see.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes.
Zaynab Issa:
That's cliche, but it really does.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How do you think about your work? Obviously your cookbooks coming out and you produce a good amount of recipes. How do you hope that your work creates room for conversations about diversity and representation within the American food landscape?
Zaynab Issa:
Yeah. I think my hope is that when you make a recipe, there's a level of appreciation and that'll incite a level of curiosity and that'll incite a level of acceptance, and once someone has your attention, then from there, it's a snowball. They're going to want to learn about you, they're going to hopefully appreciate where you come from, what you have to offer, and start seeing you and other people like you that way. The hope is that I can just pique someone's interest and then it'll happen naturally from there.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. I know we spent all our time talking about food because actually this is a food podcast, but you are probably one of the most fashionable people on social media.
Zaynab Issa:
Oh, thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Every time you post a fit, I'm just like, "I need that." Even if it wouldn't fit me, I'm like, "I still need that." How do you think about your personal style in terms of how you present yourself? And does food have any connection or inspiration piece at all?
Zaynab Issa:
I think that I approach design and style the same. When I'm food styling and coming up with a recipe and how I want it to look visually and putting on an outfit. I love juxtaposition. If I have this big homogenous, beefy braise, keeping a garnish very loose and big on top of it to contrast that is also what I do with an outfit. If I'm wearing really big pants like I'm wearing today, I'm going to wear a tighter top. If I'm wearing a collared shirt that's more structured, I'm going to wear parachute pants or something that has the opposite vibe. And I think that that makes things look interesting. They might not look as great as they could, but they look like something you want to look at and figure it out and decipher how you feel about it. Maybe I'm not directly inspired by food or vice versa. I definitely think my approach to both is the same.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
If we were to get dinner or have this conversation again in five years, where do you hope to see yourself? What things would you be excited about doing?
Zaynab Issa:
Hopefully in five years, I'm writing another cookbook. I want to open a cafe. I feel like that's the most cliche thing in the world, but I genuinely want a little small community-based. I want to be running that, I want that to be my day to day. And I want to keep doing Taste, Good, I hope that it's a much bigger part of my life. Yeah, I think that that would be five years, and I hope we have a little baby.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so cute. Yeah. So Zaynab, we are going to do our future flash five.
Zaynab Issa:
Okay.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How are you feeling?
Zaynab Issa:
Good.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay. Let's do this. The future of food equality?
Zaynab Issa:
Advocacy.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of food media?
Zaynab Issa:
Individuals.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of food fashion?
Zaynab Issa:
Espresso, coffee, cherries, pomegranate, persimmons.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of cookbooks?
Zaynab Issa:
Identity.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And finally, the future of dessert tables?
Zaynab Issa:
Doilies, Emily's.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Amazing. Zaynab, this was such a beautiful conversation. If we want to continue to support you, where are the best places to find you?
Zaynab Issa:
On Instagram, @zaynab_issa.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Nice. Awesome. Thanks so much.
Zaynab Issa:
Thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Before we go, our guest is going to leave a voicemail just talking to themselves 10 years from now. You have reached The Future of Food Is You mailbox. Please leave your message after the beep.
Zaynab Issa:
Hi, me from 10 years from now, how's 35 feeling? As you know, things have been crazy this past year. We just kicked off Taste, Good, our charitable event series that we both know has been years in the making. I hope you never forget how special it was to see all your friends, family, and the people you love in this industry sitting around a table, eating your favorite foods, laughing, talking, and most importantly, donating to a cause we care deeply for. I hope tastes good, turned into a successful project, and I hope it did good for the charities you partnered with. I hope we've hosted bake sales, dinner parties, picnics. You name it. I hope that you've helped some folks in our generation make donating and volunteering a more active and reoccurring part of their lives.
We're also currently in the weeds of our first cookbook, talk about a labor of love. I really just hope you're proud of what you've published. I hope you still cook and love those recipes. I hope you're working on another one now. We both know there's too many ideas floating around in that head to have just one. I also hope you're happy. I hope you're traveling. I hope you're eating well. I hope you're still trying to make a difference with your work in whatever way you can. Did you ever end up opening that little daytime cafe? I can't wait to see it. Oh, and please tell me you've learned to appreciate your wins better by now. Talk soon.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's it for today's show. Do you know someone who you think is the future of food? Tell us about them. Nominate them at the link in our show notes, or leave us a rating and a review and tell me about them in the review. I can't wait to read more about them. Thanks to Kerrygold for supporting our show. The Future of Food Is You as a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Thanks to the team at City Box Studios, executive producers Kerry Diamond and Catherine Baker, associate producer Jenna Sadhu, and editorial assistant Londyn Crenshaw. Catch you on the future flip.