Beverly Kim Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine, and each week I talk to the most interesting women and culinary creatives in and around the world of food.
Today's guest is Chef Beverly Kim. Beverly is the chef and proprietor along with her husband, of Parachute and the brand new Anelya restaurant in Chicago. Beverly is also a “Top Chef” alum and has made a name for herself as a true talent in the city. Parachute's innovative take on Korean American cuisine helped usher in a new era of Chicago's food scene. Her newest spot is an homage to her husband's Ukrainian heritage. Chef Beverly is also the mother of three and the founder of a nonprofit called the Abundance Setting, which is all about helping working moms in the hospitality industry. Beverly will share more about the Abundance Setting and what all of us can do to help the moms out there. Stay tuned for my chat with Chef Beverly.
Thank you to OpenTable for supporting this episode. We just wrapped the second leg of our Sit With Us Community Dinner Series with OpenTable that spotlighted amazing female chefs and female-led restaurants across the country. We visited Chef Evelyn Garcia's Jun in Houston, Renee Erickson's, The Whale Wins in Seattle, Chef Beverly's Parachute in Chicago, and just this past weekend, Chef Camille Becerra's As You Are at Ace Hotel Brooklyn. They're all fantastic places. I highly recommend you visit, and you can book them via OpenTable. I hope you all have the OpenTable app on your phone. You can also book through opentable.com. Tell the chef, Cherry Bombe says hi.
Now let's check in with today's guest. Beverly Kim, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Beverly Kim:
Hi. Thank you. It's so great being here.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's bring people up to speed. Tell us about your brand new place, which is Ukrainian, which might be a surprise to some folks.
Beverly Kim:
Very exciting. It's called Anelya. It's named after my husband's grandmother, babushka, who had a huge influence on his life. She's no longer living, but if she were, her birthday is coming up, 100th year for 2024, so it's like the biggest gift we can give to her, is creating a restaurant that was centered around her, or her name.
Yeah, it's modern Ukrainian. When the war started, we started doing some popups to raise awareness, and fundraising for Ukraine. But even before that, John had been just always intrigued by Ukraine culture, and had started making those connections to Ukraine, and had been thinking about it, but I think the war brought more of this to the forefront for our family.
But super excited to actually have a place for people to come and experience, because Ukrainian cuisine is one of those underrepresented cuisines. A lot of people don't know much about it, and it's super diverse. We have a great staff. A lot of our staff are refugees from Ukraine, who have come in the last year.
So, it's such an honor to have a space for them to acclimate into Chicago and also be really proud of what they're serving. It's, kind of like they see it as cultural diplomacy for Ukraine, that they have this unique cuisine, an identity that's unique, and they want the world to see it. So, I'm super proud to be a part of it. We're really happy.
Kerry Diamond:
What is modern Ukrainian cuisine? Give us an example of a few things that are on the menu.
Beverly Kim:
Yeah. I mean, most of the dishes are rooted in traditional Ukrainian culture. For example, we have a Varenyky, which people know it's like a dumpling. What makes it a little more modern? Maybe it's just the ingredients. We put a little saffron in the dough. We use aged Comté cheese with the potatoes, use a little bit of jowl bacon.
You know, just those little chef touches that, with our combined experience and John's experience cooking since he was 16, and 30 years of kitchen experience. So, putting that in our seasonal ingredients, in Chicago, in the Midwest. Combining that with the traditions from Ukraine.
I mean, we have borscht. Everyone knows borscht, right? A lot of people aren't familiar with how many different kinds of borscht there really are. The kind that we have right now is from the Poltava region, which they add smoked pears to the broth, which traditionally there's clay ovens and a way of preserving fruit, is by smoking them in the piche. So, in that area, smoked pears were used. It's just like adding duck, Mallard ducks to the broth, and using that.
Kerry Diamond:
Is the duck your own special touch?
Beverly Kim:
Yeah, and that's our special touch. So, it's just those little ideas that make it slightly different and unique. Sometimes modern is almost too flat. It's a personal perspective that ... I really like to say Johnny's leading this more than me because that's his background, and I want him to take the leadership on that. A lot of these ideas are coming from his own experience and thinking, "What would make this more interesting?"
It's similar how we take Korean food at Parachute. It tastes Korean, it eats Korean, but they're just little things that make it a little interesting, or maybe it's a technique that we're using to get it more to our touch and our personal perspective.
Kerry Diamond:
I was going to ask how you two are dividing the labor. I mean, you have three children, so you're used to dividing and conquering.
Beverly Kim:
Yeah, we are used to dividing and conquering a lot. I think that ... Then there's certain things that we just do together because we want to be solid on the systems, and establishing the mission, and establishing the values. Then there's things that he leans on more, and then I lean on more just because we're, maybe naturally good at certain things.
But as chefs, we're both trained from the back of the house, and so we didn't necessarily train as front of the house people, but by owning our own restaurants, we have been learning how to do that more, and growing that area.
The way we've been trained is as a chef. So, a lot of that orderliness and structure comes from a chef's perspective.
Kerry Diamond:
You also have, as we've mentioned, another restaurant and it's called Parachute. Tell us all about it.
Beverly Kim:
Yeah. Parachute is mine and John's first restaurant, and it was our heart's desire to put something out there, a restaurant that we wanted to eat at, a restaurant we wanted to work at. Having worked for other people, having done other restaurants, at the time there wasn't a lot of representation in the Korean American perspective of things.
I had come from a line of Pan-Asian restaurants, working for a Pan-Asian restaurant, but actually being confident in saying, "This is a Korean American restaurant." Leading that as the definitive was, kind of groundbreaking at the time. That was almost 10 years ago.
In Chicago, we're almost 10 years old, and we constantly keep evolving, but we wanted to do something that was our vision, true to our vision, and a place that we could make a living off of as a married couple with, at the time we had just Daewon, who was four years old, and we wanted to make it work.
We wanted to achieve our dreams of being creative chefs, to own our own business, and to raise a family. We felt like the only way we could do that was by having this restaurant. Now, almost 10 years later we have three children, and so it just forces us to keep growing and keep dreaming bigger.
It's never been ... I mean, we're stopping at three for sure. Three kids is enough, but we never didn't think we couldn't raise a family and support each other in our dreams of being creative chefs. This is a hard industry to be in, to make it work as a family, and to see your family. So, we wanted to be entrepreneurs for that reason, but also I just have such a love for Korean food, the flavors, the heritage, the story.
I think it's very important to be represented, especially in my hometown city of Chicago. I really wanted to bring that to the dynamic of the city, and just do the best I could, and still make it feel like it's a neighborhood spot. But also, I also wanted it to be something that people could come and visit out of town for.
It wouldn't be a special ... It could be, both destination and local business, and I think so far we've been successful at doing what we wanted to do.
Kerry Diamond:
You did work for Charlie Trotter. You have fine dining experience. Why didn't you go that route?
Beverly Kim:
Yes. Well, for us, we wanted a space that was more accessible to people. Pretty much, anyone could really afford to go there. It's still special, but it also could be, you don't have to sacrifice your whole paycheck to get there, but still have the mindset of a three star, like still have those values of quality that the highest restaurants I worked at, like at Charlie Trotter had.
We still fly our fish in from Japan for our Hoe. We seek the best ingredients. We use Kisoondo Gochujang, which is a very unique vendor who comes straight from Korea doing the traditional ongi method. So, things like that. For us, it's worth paying extra, or going the extra mile for.
It's just cutting out all that fat, so that it can be more fun and accessible. That's the kind of place we want to work at, and it's the kind of place we want to eat at.
Kerry Diamond:
What are some of the most popular dishes on the menu at Parachute?
Beverly Kim:
Yeah. I think the Haemul Pajeon is one of those dishes that people remember. Haemul Pajeon is a seafood pancake with many scallions, chives, something that you might normally get at a Korean restaurant. However, ours, the way we worked on the technique of it and worked on the batter, took a while, but I think it's really, really great because it highlights the vegetables more.
The calamari and squid are great, but it's actually all the four onions that we're using in there that make it so cool. I always think, get the Haemul Pajeon if you're there. We did the mackerel, which is-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, my gosh, the mackerel.
Beverly Kim:
... our staff favorite.
Kerry Diamond:
The mackerel was spectacular.
Beverly Kim:
Yeah, which is from Boston. We get it fresh flown in from Boston, and it's cured with Bourbon Barrel smoked sea salt overnight, and then we grill it on eucalyptus charcoal. Very simple. It looks very simple, but when you taste it, it's like the freshest mackerel you can get. The texture's just right, and then I think the Patbingsu is just one of those showstoppers.
We always have a Patbingsu on the menu. It just changes seasonally based on the ingredients that we can get from our farmers, or what inspires us. With fall coming about, the s'mores concept of using chocolate and meringue. I have to credit my sous chef for ideating that.
So, another part of Parachute's mission, is we are small business owners, and I want to show people who come and work under me that, "You're able to do this," because a lot of people feel like they can never own their own business, or they can never own their own restaurants, but we try to give them some independence, and independent thinking, and contribute to the whole experience, the menu.
That's part of one of our mission, is to raise the next generation of people in our industry. That's a side note from the Patbingsu, but that you definitely have to get the Patbingsu. We have the snowvan machine that you pour in any kind of liquid. So, it's super light and fluffy. It looks really big, but it's really light, so you could always fit it in.
Kerry Diamond:
You called it a snowvan, like V-A-N?
Beverly Kim:
Yeah, yeah. It's special to ... It comes from Korea. It has this wheel that instantly ices and shoots it out like snow. So, it's really light and delicate, and then you could swap out the flavors.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you always know you wanted to be an entrepreneur?
Beverly Kim:
My dad, he had his own private practice, and my husband, his parents were always independent entrepreneurs. She owned a hair salon and his dad had a graphic design company. So, I think it just, maybe runs in our blood. I don't know if I even decided that.
I think if I had, maybe found the right fit for myself, maybe I could be like, "Okay, I can work here and just reach the top level of that," but I couldn't find something that was like Parachute. Therefore, I couldn't work for someone who had that.
So, I try to imagine myself as a little Beverly had I met the older Beverly, having Parachute now, would I have stuck around? I would hope to think that I have a restaurant that could encourage someone, like a little Beverly to stick around, and evolve, and advance with me, and grow with me.
Kerry Diamond:
You decided to have two more kids. Do you mind talking about what you and your husband were thinking, and how you thought you could fit it in, and deal with childcare, and all those things you have to think about?
Beverly Kim:
Yeah. The first one, I wouldn't say anything is an accident, but we weren't planning. We weren't planning, but I feel so blessed. I come from a space of wonder and miracles. For me, all my children are a gift to me.
The second one, sort of came about. When we found out we were pregnant, we're like, "Okay, yeah, this is good. This is a good time." It's either now or never because Daewon's getting to be almost seven years old. One of those things crossed my mind. This is a very hard business, to be a child of parents, and it's almost thinking about pets. If you had two dogs, they're actually more happy if they're alone all day.
I wanted to ... We didn't want Daewon to not have someone to be with, should something happen to mom and dad in the future. We didn't want to be his everything. So, Hanul came about, not to say that ... Shortly after, there was management changeover and a lot of things that happened.
So, there's never a good time in the restaurant industry for anything. You can plan, plan, plan, but it never goes exactly according to plan. I just say, as also with parents, parenting, you can plan as much as you can, but sometimes it doesn't go according to plan. So, you have to roll with the punches.
The third one was hard. I was literally like, "How are we going to do this?" Three was, maybe out of our comfort zone, but we decided the minivan was part of the ... You know? It's like, "Okay, we're not too cool for minivans." We had to have an AM babysitter, we had to have a nighttime babysitter. We had tried so many different, kind of situations.
We went from everything, from our Illinois-supported Head Start program, which there was night childcare. When we opened Parachute, we qualified because we made under 31,000 as a family. So, it opened my eyes to these childcare systems, and there was a night care, so I was able to pick him up from 10:00 when I was done expoing at Parachute.
It wasn't the end goal. I think my end goal was to have at-home care only because it's such a transition to pick a kid up from 10:00 at night, get them ready, and get their sleep schedules down. Thankfully, he was just in preschool at the time, but for kindergarten it was definitely a, "Oh, we need a new plan because he needs to be at school by a certain time. He needs this amount of sleep."
Then we tried au pairs, as also helpful, like someone who stays at home with you. We've had A, B, and C nanny. So, if A aunt nanny couldn't make it, then I had a second backup plan. Then sometimes, someone I'd call from Sittercity.
Obviously, you try to keep people with you as long as possible because I think they're the most essential employees to you, is someone who's essentially, helping you raise your children. So, my AM nanny was with us for five years, and now that he's in preschool all day, thanks to all day free preschool in Chicago, so now she's transitioned to another family.
We still have night care, and I couldn't do it without someone who actually lived with me, and we found her from Facebook. So, you got to be resourceful. You have to find people from all ... You know, the hard part is, there's not enough resources for parents, and I don't have parents who live near me, nor on my husband's side. So, there's times where we feel really ... It forced us to really find a system.
There's places that you can go to that outsource nannies. You can go do one-off babysitter sources. We tried the healthcare, a Head Start program. All of them, it's trial and error just like hiring at a restaurant. Sometimes you have diamonds in the rough and you try to hold onto them as long as possible. Then you have the ones that you're like, "Oh, now this isn't going to work."
It's tough transitioning your kid through different people. At one point, Daewon was like, "Are you my babysitter? Are you my babysitter?" Anyone new he'd be like, "Are you my new babysitter?" It made me feel so horrible, and I just want him to have consistency in their lives. Consistency is really important for children, but I've tried many different things. There's not a perfect path. There's just lot of guilt that comes with it, but I've become older and wiser.
The one thing is making sure I'm there for the most important part of their days. I'm dropping them off for their breakfast. I get up on our days off, Sunday and Monday nights, we have family time together. We have quality family time together. I communicate with my kids a lot, and I really do believe they're learning something that's going to help them, also.
It's different. It's not how I grew up. I grew up with a mom who stayed at home and drove me to everything, cooked all my meals. Not all their meals are cooked by me. I actually delegate, "Oh, can you cook this? Can you do that?" Sometimes I have to do the thing I don't like to do, is throw in a pizza. Hate it, but I do it sometimes because it's necessary, and time runs out. You have to be kind to yourself, knowing how much you're handling, and know that you're there for the most important times.
Kerry Diamond:
You decided that you wanted to do everything you could to help working moms in the culinary industry, so you started the Abundance Setting. Tell us what the Abundance Setting is.
Beverly Kim:
Yes. So, as you can tell, it's quite a struggle to be a woman in this industry, a parent in this industry. Actually, when I got pregnant with Daewon, my mom was like, "So, you're going to give up your career. That's great."
I mean, seriously, she was like, "That sucks." I was like, "No, I'm not. I'm not going to give up my career." She's like, "Really? How are you going to do it?" I think that's a lot of the attitude towards women who have kids in this industry, is, "How are you going to do it?" A lot of women who do have families do drop out because it's just really hard to make it all work-
Kerry Diamond:
Or it scares women away from ever getting into the industry in the first place.
Beverly Kim:
Oh, it scares them completely because in your early 20s, you're working on the line and you're closing till 2:00 in the morning on a Saturday night. You're thinking, "How am I going to do this?" You're working opposite. Then school time hours, you're working. Your holidays, it's opposite from the normal. It's really difficult.
So, I always wanted to do something for women in this industry, but especially the niche area is supporting women with children, because I think if you can make it work and get through a hard period, we would have more women leadership at the top, we definitely would, because I think there's so many women who spend 10 years working their way up the line, and they're excelling, advancing. Then they want to have a family, and then they just stop, and they just disinvest in the industry.
For me, the only way to really be able to have a family is to advance, is to get beyond just a minimum wage line cook position, is to make more, because yeah, your babysitter's going to make only a dollar more than you. Then why would it ever make sense to stay in this industry? You have to think like a leader.
How can you get into a leadership position? The challenge with women is we have a biological clock. In order to have one or two kids, you got to do this during the time when you're advancing the most, to become a chef de cuisine. You're working from 11:00 to 11:00. You're that point person.
You are, kind of working off the clock too, to come up with new menu items, to do your orders. I mean, it's 70, 80, 90 hours a week. I think, changing the culture, changing systems, creating resources is really important for women in those critical times, so that they can continue to advance.
So, our mission is to support the advancement of working women and mothers in the culinary industry, and to support them to have quality of life, because I'm not saying let's be like men, work like men because we're held to the standard, where they have wives at home, or they have all the support systems at home for them, and work like a dog and never have a quality of life.
I think there needs to be that, you have to put the children in the picture, too. You got to put that to the forefront. So, what does that mean? It's not a perfect thing. Being in this industry is very difficult. It's got unique challenges, but the more we talk about it, the more we have conversations, the more we have a network of women who are doing it, the more we can create some solutions, a step towards the right direction.
So, we have a mentorship program which connects working moms coming up in the industry with leadership in the industry, in particular 3 Chefs 3 Moms, because especially hard in the kitchen, which is ironic because we think, women ... There was that saying, "Women's place is in the kitchen," and that was putting women down. Right? That was a way to say, women can't advance.
Ironically, you put women in the kitchen, in a professional kitchen and they can't rise. Trying to establish, how do we get women in the kitchen to lead, because a lot of the thought leadership comes from the chefs in kitchens, right? We connect them together in a mentorship program.
This mentorship program has evolved during COVID. We did have weekly drop-offs of family meals for 12 weeks, which supported their families, because these working women who are chefs, they don't have the time to cook, like you think they can cook for their kids. They are really exhausted, nor are they making the pay that other professional industries do at that high level. So, it's really hard.
So, we support them with resources of food from chefs who are leaders, but also it's this mentorship program, which we have them shadow, we have them be coached by, and we have this potluck where we all come together from the mentee side and the mentors to create a community, because we can learn from each other.
Mentors can learn from mentees. Mentees can learn from mentors. Mentees can learn from other mentees, and mentors can learn from other mentors. Because of that we're stronger. So, that's one of our programs along with other programs that we have on deck, which is our bigger goal of a research project to really identify which resources will really help push the needle for these working mothers in the industry.
Also, we do support them with, also farmers to moms, which give them a stipend to shop from the farmer's markets. We highlight who are the women farmers. So, we're really trying to connect the ecosystem of women in food and the mothers in food.
Bigger goal down the road is to crack the childcare code for working parents in this industry. That's a hard one. Taking on childcare is really hard, but I think it's very necessary. It's one of the biggest expense that we have, and probably the one that holds us back. The average ... Oh, financial analysts will say, "Oh, yeah. We recommend 10% of your income to go to childcare, for it to work," but I spend more than 50%, maybe all of my income on childcare, so I can stay.
I mean, 35 to, all the way to 100% of your income is going to childcare so that you can stay in this industry. It doesn't make sense, financially. So, if we could crack the childcare code, that would be amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
Beverly, I just have no idea how you have time to do all this. You are amazing.
Beverly Kim:
My goal is still to grow, just grow it, involve more people, get them to help do the work because no one can do this alone. It takes a village to make a change.
Kerry Diamond:
What do you need the most right now? Funding?
Beverly Kim:
Funding.
Kerry Diamond:
You do have a link. People can donate if they want.
Beverly Kim:
Yes. Go to abundancesetting.org. We are a 501(c)(3), so it's tax-deductible. Hopefully, this will inspire not only just Chicago, then it becomes a national thing, and then even to the world, because I'm trying to think, part of the reason why this is a chip on my shoulder is because of Korean patriarchy, honestly.
I was the fourth of last daughters, of four daughters, and I was told, "You're, sort of second class as a woman." The norms of the times was like, "Well, you wouldn't have been born unless if I had a son." I was like, "That's horrible to say." But I think it's because, systemically women have always been the caregivers at home, and have been barred from education, have been barred from advancing in the professional world. This is no different in the professional world.
I think this could really have an impact on women's self-esteem across the world, because I think women around the world have the same issues. Whether you're in an industrial country like America or you're not, I think women are systemically shut out because biologically, we are the caregivers of ... Not just caregivers, the birthing parents.
So, I think that is an issue I feel really passionate about, and it'll always be there. It'll always be there to chip away at. One person at a time, if we can make that difference, it's really important.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you have folks you're working with on this initiative, because I'll be honest, the only two people I've ever heard even say the term night care, there's you and there's Camilla Marcus, who has west~bourne.
Beverly Kim:
Oh, yes, Camilla Marcus. Yeah, so we are still creating our coalitions. We've been working with LEE Initiative to see how we all can fit together to make this bigger change together, because we can't work in silos. We have to work together.
Yeah, I mean, just talking about it more, making it a thing that we talk about is really important. The fact that it's been brought up only by me and Camilla is really interesting, and I'm not surprised.
Kerry Diamond:
If there are others, and I don't know about you, I'm very sorry, DM me. I would absolutely love to know more. Let's manifest a few things for you. So, we want to get you some funding. You want to fund that research study. Is there anything else on your wishlist for the Abundance Setting for 2024?
Beverly Kim:
Yeah, we want to grow to more cities. So, we launched one in L.A., our program in L.A. with Mary Sue Milliken, Katianna Hong, and Stephanie Izard. We'd love to grow in each city, because now you're creating a network of resources. So, that's on our goals. Maybe it's New York, maybe it's D.C.
I think, together we're all saying the same things actually. What we talk about in L.A., even with laws being different in each city, and each city has, maybe some are more friendly to moms and some are less friendly to moms, the culture is still the same, where women are shut out because of this.
My coping mechanism is actually to give back and it really is, kind of amazing. The name, Abundance Setting, it has a dial, like a oven setting dial. Set your mind to an abundance mindset because if you only think about how things are negative, against you, not that you manifest it, but it's hard to see the solutions, or a way out. So, I try to get everyone to think, "Okay, this is hard, but let's think abundantly."
Kerry Diamond:
The holiday's right around the corner. I'm going to do an abrupt subject change. Do you celebrate Thanksgiving?
Beverly Kim:
Yes, I do.
Kerry Diamond:
Are the restaurants open?
Beverly Kim:
No, we close for families and employees, yes-
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. I'm happy that-
Beverly Kim:
... on Thanksgiving Day, but then we have to come right back and everyone's like really food comad out, and has to go straight to work. It's hard, but we do it.
Kerry Diamond:
What does your family make on Thanksgiving?
Beverly Kim:
So, growing up, my mom always did a delicious turkey, which I think she learned from “The Joy of Cooking.” I don't know how she learned to cook this. She would make her own stuffing, and she still does the stuffing inside, even though they tell you to make it on the side because she swears that it tastes better inside.
I think she does a butter basting, even though the science says it doesn't make it ... Anyway, she has her own rules about things. She's a stickler to how she does things, but it works. We always have some Korean side dishes, always Kimchis, different, kind of Banchans, soups, Korean soups.
Maybe it's Korean pancakes, maybe it's Hoe, which is the equivalent to Sashimi in Korean culture, but it's a mix. It's a mixed Korean American Thanksgiving for sure. I try to do that, too. So, for my Thanksgiving for home, it's always a mix. John and I switch it up all the time based on what we're interested in.
Kerry Diamond:
What is always on your Thanksgiving table?
Beverly Kim:
We don't always have turkey though. I don't know. We're not the biggest Turkey fan people. What is always? That's a good question, because I feel like we've switched it up every year, a little bit.
I would say, I try to do this every Thanksgiving just out of honor for my mom. She does this thing, where she makes a crab, breadcrumb, mayonnaise gratin and she stuffed it into these clamshells that she would save. I don't know where she got the recipe. She chops hard-boiled eggs in it, and onions.
It's so buttery and so fatty, which is so antithetical to Korean food, but somehow it blends really well with Korean food. I always try to do that, and she's gifted me her shells, so I try to do that as much as I can just out of memory for my mom.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, well, Chef Beverly, thank you so much for your time. It was wonderful seeing you last week, and just such a pleasure being able to eat at Parachute and being in community with all those wonderful people who came and joined us.
Beverly Kim:
Thank you for everything. It was wonderful talking with you today.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. If you are a longtime listener or maybe a new one, I would love for you to subscribe to our show via Spotify or Apple Podcasts, so you never miss an episode. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazen is the studio engineer for Newsstand Studios. Our producer is Catherine Baker. Our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu, and our editorial assistant is Londyn Crenshaw. Thanks for listening, everybody. You're the Bombe.