Diana Yen Transcript
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi, peeps. You're listening to She's My Cherry Pie, the baking podcast from The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Jessie Sheehan. I'm a baker, recipe developer, and author of three baking books, including my latest, “Snackable Bakes.” Each Saturday I'm hanging out with the sweetest bakers around and taking a deep dive into their signature bakes.
Today's guest is Diana Yen, food stylist, chef and founder of A La Carte Creative Studio. Diana creates some of the most beautiful food content out there, and you've probably seen her work in all the best food magazines, including Cherry Bombe. Diana joins me to talk about her creative process, her upcoming cookbook, and her signature fortune cookie recipe from the “Cherry Bombe” cookbook. We thought it would be fun to end the year with a celebratory cookie you can share with loved ones. Stay tuned for my chat with Diana.
Thank you to Plugrà Premium European Style Butter for supporting today's show. Get ready to savor the season with Plugrà Butter. With the holidays right around the corner, I know so many of you are planning what baked goods you'll be making. Maybe you're thinking about buttery sugar cookies decorated with royal icing for that next cookie swap or some light as air gougère for New Year's Eve. The pastry chefs and bakers I interview for this podcast are the best in the business and they all agree on one thing when it comes to baking. Ingredients matter. Plugrà Premium European Style Butter is the perfect butter for your next baking project because it contains 82% butter fat. Also, it's slow-churned, making Plugrà more pliable and easy to work with. I've been using Plugrà ever since my first professional baking job. My go-to are the unsalted sticks. I get to control the amount of salt in the recipes and the sticks come individually wrapped. Perfect for precise measurements. Sticks or solid, salted or unsalted, whichever you prefer, Plugrà Premium European Style Butter is the ultimate choice. Ask for Plugrà at your favorite grocery store or dash over to plugra.com for a store locator and some delicious holiday recipes. That's plugra.com.
This episode is the last show of the year. Thank you so much for supporting the first year of She's My Cherry Pie, and for leaving so many nice comments, questions, ratings, and reviews. I have loved chatting with so many interesting guests this year, including Claire Saffitz, Maya-Camille Broussard, Christina Tosi, Natasha Pickowicz, Melissa Clark, and Abi Balinget, just to name a few. I can't wait for another year of celebrating the best bakers and baked goods.
Let's check in with today's guest. Diana, so excited to have you on She's My Cherry Pie and to talk matcha and sesame fortune cookies with you and so much more.
Diana Yen:
I'm so excited to be here, Jessie. I've been such a huge fan of your work for so many years, and Cherry Bombe of course, so it's a real honor.
Jessie Sheehan:
Well, I think it's fair to say that food was super important in your family growing up and that your mom was a truly excellent cook, preparing these multi-course meals for the family. Can you talk a little bit about food in the Yen house growing up?
Diana Yen:
Yes. And full disclosure, my sister Donna Yen also works for Cherry Bombe, so she'll be listening to this after. And yeah, we have always just been a family that loves sharing food and cooking together, and finding the best food around, whether it's fresh seafood or going to the farmer's market. We would go on all of these family vacations and plan how we were going to shop for all the food to bring back to an Airbnb and cook all day. So it's pretty fun.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. So from when you were quite tiny, your mom was making you delicious food. Were you ever getting involved? Did you ever help her or did you ever bake with her or bake on your own? Was there baking, cooking happening?
Diana Yen:
I want to say with my mom, she was a Chinese chef so she was very much about taking control over the entire kitchen. So we'd just perch and watch her. It was always multi-course meals, Chinese style, family style. So imagine even on a weekday, on a Monday or Tuesday coming back from school, she would already be prepping dinner and it would always be five or six dishes. The full spread.
Jessie Sheehan:
And so there weren't a lot of sweets. Am I right? Your mom wasn't doing a lot of baking, etc?
Diana Yen:
I want to say Chinese people in general, the sweets are very different than American style and especially not so much baking. A lot of people don't even have ovens. So sweets come in the form of having dessert soup at the end of dinner or something that's really warming for the body. I think that was really important to her. So it would be dessert soups and those mochi soup with the sesame. Black sesame. So we'd have things like that.
Jessie Sheehan:
So you ended up moving to San Francisco where you went to college and where you studied product design and then working there before you moved to New York for more design work. When you first came to New York or maybe a few years in, there was this Martha Stewart cookie moment that changed your creative trajectory and I was wondering if you could unpack that for us.
Diana Yen:
First of all, I can't believe you dug that up. I don't know how you found out about it, but it is true. It changed the trajectory of my life really. I was in New York doing furniture product design, which I had studied and loved for so long and still love, but she had a holiday market at her office every year and they asked me to make cookies for it. And I stayed up all night because I knew Martha herself would be cruising the aisles and I wanted to make sure it was perfect. So I stayed up all night making these ... It was a twist on the thumbprint cookie. It was a little fancier and I made them into ornaments so you could hang them on a tree.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh. Explain what a thumbprint cookie is, just in case people don't know and what you filled it with and all of that.
Diana Yen:
Yeah, so a classic thumbprint cookie, a lot of us have had. It's a round cookie and in the middle you poke your thumb into the dough and then you fill it with jam. So you can fill it with any kind of jam and it's a very simple cookie. My version, I made fancy jams. Like a Concord grape jelly. I did a raspberry Prosecco jelly and I actually faceted the cookies and filled different sections with either glitter or with jam, and the editors saw it and Martha saw it and they loved it and asked for me to come on the show.
Jessie Sheehan:
That is incredible. And I know it was a terrifying venture trying to get all the cookies. They not only had you come on the show. Didn't they require you to incorporate and start a business?
Diana Yen:
They did, and I was still at my full-time design job and they were like, "Well, you can sell cookies right? You can only come on the show if you have a business and you can sell these cookies in case people want to buy them." So I lied and said I had a cookie business and I basically got it all together in the matter of two weeks. Formed an LLC. Like, okay, whatever I can do to go on Martha's show and meet Martha. It is all I cared about. I wasn't really thinking about the business actually at all.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh. I love that. And I guess the cookies sold out immediately once you were on the show.
Diana Yen:
They did pretty well. They did pretty well. And luckily I was in New York and in New York you can make anything happen if you want it to. So I contacted a bakery in Dumbo that was able to fulfill my orders, and so I gave them the recipe, I gave them the designs, and they helped me do that in the matter of two or three weeks and so that was amazing.
Jessie Sheehan:
I also love that it sounds like the cookie already or maybe this makes perfect sense, so it's not an already moment at all, it's like what it should be. But that the cookie was not only I'm sure delicious and perfect, but also that it had a really strong design element to it because that is your background.
Diana Yen:
It did. It had something special about it. And I remember for a few years after that I was doing ornament cookies every year.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Diana Yen:
Even though I didn't consider myself a baker.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh, I love that. I love that. Well, maybe Martha considered you one. And I think maybe ... I don't know. Soon after, but after that Martha experience, you ended up leaving your design job and opening the creative studio, the Jewels of New York. Although actually did you open the studio and still have your design job? Did they overlap?
Diana Yen:
Yes. Yes. This was the blogger era, so I started a blog. That's all I knew I had to do. After the Martha show, I realized I couldn't wake up early enough to actually be a baker. I was like, wait, they wake up really early. I don't think that's part of my lifestyle, so let me figure out another way. So I started this food blog and it became so popular that I was getting all sorts of different requests, and some of them were for catering, some of them were for photo shoots. So I just said yes to everything and at a certain point I could leave my day job.
Jessie Sheehan:
And was the blog called Jewels of New York?
Diana Yen:
Yes, it was. And for me it was coming from California, moving to New York, discovering everything that was special about New York and sharing with people and especially cooking through the seasons.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh, I love that. So essentially you're just blogging about what you like to make or what you like to do, and people are so attracted to that they're saying to you, "Hey, but could you make me cookies or could you photograph this for me?"
Diana Yen:
Yeah. It became something like that where people just would request for me to do recipes or photo shoots and then sometimes catering. We were doing weddings as well.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Diana Yen:
We got to that level.
Jessie Sheehan:
And that was even before the studio opened.
Diana Yen:
That was-
Jessie Sheehan:
At the beginning of the studio.
Diana Yen:
Where I realized, oh, I have enough work for me to leave my day job. It was still scary. I didn't want to leave it after spending so many years doing design, but I think food was just my calling and it kept calling me. Even when I would close the door, it would keep knocking, so I finally opened the door and just went into it and let it take me to where I am now.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that perseverance and also ... I've read this about you online anyway, but just not being afraid to take a chance. I think you said somewhere, which I loved, you said, "Well, I'm not saying you should quit your day job right away. Be careful about that." I think you said it took you eight years.
Diana Yen:
It took me many years to have several jobs, and I think a lot of people in New York operate that way, but you might not know it. But I think that this is a city with so much opportunity, and if you keep at it for a certain amount of time, you're going to get to do that full-time if that's what you want.
Jessie Sheehan:
When these offers started coming in, you had to learn how to develop recipes. You had to learn how to photograph, you had to learn-
Diana Yen:
How to cater a wedding.
Jessie Sheehan:
How to cater a wedding. And I also read that you didn't even really know food styling was a job.
Diana Yen:
No.
Jessie Sheehan:
So you were making things beautiful without realizing in a way that it had a name.
Diana Yen:
I think so, and I think that I was friends with editors at different magazines and they would just come over for dinner for a Sunday supper and say, "Hey, do you want to do a story about this or, I like the way that you folded this napkin. Do you want to share that tip?" Good things like that.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that.
Diana Yen:
It's just natural.
Jessie Sheehan:
And we have a nice connection, which is that I met you when you still had the Jewels of New York in New York because you food styled my second book, “The Vintage Baker.” Can you tell us more about ... I'm trying to imagine, was it a few of you in the studio all the time? Was it mostly you and then you'd hire people to come in and help you on a particularly large job? How did the day-to-day go?
Diana Yen:
Well, first of all, it was an honor to work on your book. I was so excited. It was before we met and the recipes were all amazing. And so I knew it was up to me to make it look beautiful too. With the studio at the time, we had so many different umbrellas. Like I said, we were doing catering, we were doing photo shoots, recipe development. So I would hire people and different freelancers depending on the job. So for your book for example, the publisher had already sent like this is your photographer, which was Alice Gao at the time. And my friend Sean Dooley, who is also a big stylist now, he worked on it and it was just a team of us in my studio working on this book.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. Well, you're working on one book and we're going to talk about that, but your first book is called “The Jewels of New York,” and I noticed that in the beginning of that book, there's a picture of you and a team.
Diana Yen:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
So were those your people that you would call on when you started?
Diana Yen:
Yeah. I think that New York has just the most talented people. That was my starting team. Those were the people that I trusted. We all had our different skillsets and coming together, making something beautiful was so important to me.
Jessie Sheehan:
So you had Jewels of New York for a while or for a long while. So successful. You eventually left New York, which is so sad for me and everyone else who loves you. And you started A La Carte Studio in California where you moved. I'm not sure how long it took before you started it, but it's like you wear so many hats, Diana, it's like the studios have do so many things. Is A La Carte as multi-purpose in a way as Jewels was?
Diana Yen:
It is. I moved to California because I'm from there. It was time to come home. It was during the pandemic and I wanted to be close to my family. Donna was already there. So it felt like it was time to come back and I moved to Ojai, which is so beautiful and known for its produce. So when I went back to California, I realized that's what I need the most is the inspiration, which is really good produce. It was an experiment to see what would happen out there, and I fell in love with it. And there's so much to share about California, especially with agriculture and the full cycle of food that I wasn't getting when I lived in the city.
Jessie Sheehan:
And tell us about A La Carte.
Diana Yen:
So while I was out there and I decided I was going to live there longer, I wanted to take the best things I love from Jewels of New York, which is mostly recipe development and photo styling, photography and focus on those things. And so I started a new studio out there and I've been working with food and beverage companies from home, like a home studio. So I want to build that for myself.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's incredible. I've seen on Instagram some kitchen reno. An incredible renovation. Is that where the studio is as it were, or is that your home kitchen and then you have a separate space for A La Carte?
Diana Yen:
It's both. I bought this house that I really wanted to build out a photo studio and then use the kitchen as my test kitchen and really just worked from there. I had a complicated setup when I lived in New York having a home and then having a studio and taking care of both, and it was time for me to buy a house.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. Congratulations. That's so exciting.
Diana Yen:
Thank you.
Jessie Sheehan:
So you're working on your second cookbook, which I just adore the title of this book. Your first book, which we talked about, “Jewels of New York,” was inspired by seasonal activities and entertaining. This book, “Slow Burn.” Incredible name. Published by Artisan, Spring of 2025. It's for simple, accessible outdoor live fire recipes to make over a fire pit or in the backyard or while camping. Tell me. Tell me. Tell me.
Diana Yen:
So when I moved to California, I got really into camping and cooking outdoors, which was fully new for me. I was in an apartment for so many years in Brooklyn and finally just being outside and cooking over a fire gave me so much joy. It's something that's very interactive so everyone else can sit around the fire and you're cooking together and it's just really warming for the soul.
Jessie Sheehan:
I just think “Slow Burn” is the best name. And is it the kind of thing where you had to teach yourself how to build a fire, teach yourself about making a fire pit? Does the book include or was your journey to the book, did that include learning how to make the fire in the first place?
Diana Yen:
Yeah, I grew up camping quite a bit, but for me to go back as an adult and do it my way with really good food I wanted to eat was a different experience. So I would just do a camping trip every month, and that's when I started to get comfortable with building fires and cooking over fire. It became something I got so into that I bought a fire pit for my backyard at home and also love to just be outside and have people over and cook around a fire all night.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh, I love it. And I understand there might be some baking or dessert recipes in “Slow Burn.”
Diana Yen:
There will be. I'm still in the testing process, but I'm going to be doing some Dutch oven cooking and I think that there will be some cakes involved in that. I'm just working on doing some simple cakes and things that you could do in the skillet so that it's going to be really fun to test those recipes out.
Jessie Sheehan:
In the same way that I'm so glad that we brought up your sister Donna, who I adore and everyone at Cherry Bombe and elsewhere adores, but I also wanted to talk about Cleo your bunny because that was very much ... I hate it when we talk about ourselves as brands, but that was very much part of the Diana brand because Cleo was so front and center in so much of your work. At least when you were in New York. Can you tell everyone about Cleo?
Diana Yen:
Cleo was my Angora bunny. Huge, fluffy, very much like a dog personality. She would come up to anyone and was very affectionate and she's just so beautiful. I think that she caught the eye of so many people. So in New York, she started to become a celebrity. That sounds so weird.
Jessie Sheehan:
Didn't she even ... I can't remember the brand, but I feel like she was even featured in some of your work and in some work for brands that you worked for.
Diana Yen:
Yes. She had her own photo shoots though. She would get invited to Fashion Week and I didn't even get an invite. It would be emailed. She had her own email address. Cleo the bunny, please attend New York Fashion Week and they would offer her rate to show up. So it was getting a little bit out of control, but we worked with West Elm and ASPCA to make Cleo ornaments one year for the holidays, and that was really special. And people write me every holiday and say, "I just hung up my ornament."
Jessie Sheehan:
We'll be right back. Today's episode is also presented by California Prunes. I'm a California Prunes fan when it comes to smart snacking. Funnily enough, at the same time we started this podcast, my doctor told me how good prunes are for your gut, your heart, and even your bones. Prunes contain dietary fiber and other nutrients to support good gut health, potassium to support heart health and vitamin K, copper and antioxidants to support healthy bones. So prunes became a daily snack of mine. I have them in my cabinet at home, I put them in smoothies, and I bring them with me when I'm on the go because they're perfectly portable. Now let's talk about my true love. Baking. California Prunes are a great addition to baked goods, especially this time of year. They work beautifully in recipes with rich and complex flavors like espresso, olives, and chilies, and they enhance the flavor of warm spices, toffee, caramel and chocolate. Consider adding prunes to scones, gingerbread, coffee cake, or any baked good that calls for dried fruit. If you're looking to make some holiday showstoppers, like a fruitcake you make ahead of time, keep prunes in mind when you're assembling the dried fruit you need. They add just the right texture and flavor. Be sure to check out the California Prunes website at californiaprunes.org for recipes and more. That's californiaprunes.org.
I've got great news, listeners. Jubilee 2024 is taking place Saturday, April 20th at Center 415 in Manhattan and tickets are on sale now. Jubilee is the largest gathering of women and culinary creatives in the food and drink space in the U.S. It's a beautiful day of conversation and connection, and I hope to see you there. You can learn more and snag tickets at cherrybombe.com. Now back to our guest.
Now I would love to talk about your matcha and sesame fortune cookies. Did you make fortune cookies with your family growing up?
Diana Yen:
Never.
Jessie Sheehan:
Never. Okay.
Diana Yen:
I actually think it was something that I saw Martha do and I was like, that is so chic. Doing fortune cookies, writing fortunes. It could be so beautiful. I started to do it when I would have friends over for tea, but especially for Chinese New Year.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. And I also have to say that I have made fortune cookies in my lifetime and it was Martha's recipe that inspired me to make them in the first place. So that's hilarious that it comes back to Martha. Since I have made them before and I wonder if you would agree with me, my experience is they're actually a lot easier than people think to make.
Diana Yen:
I think so. I think so. You do have a bit of heat on your fingertips when you're forming them because you're forming them as they are warm still, pretty much straight from the pan.
Jessie Sheehan:
I guess one question I had before we dive in. Are there other flavors besides the matcha and the sesame that you have made or you stick to those?
Diana Yen:
I have mostly stuck to those, but I think that if you had any extract, you could play around with the flavors. But I think anything that's very simple. Maybe other teas would work well with it I think.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. I've made it just with almond extract before, which I love.
Diana Yen:
Yes. That's very classic.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Okay, so first things first, we're going to print or we're going to write fortunes on two and a half inch strips of paper. So it's two inches by a half inch strips of paper. So I have a couple of questions. First of all, are you organized enough to be printing them off your computer or are you just having friends write their own fortunes when they arrive to make cookies with you?
Diana Yen:
Yes. I will have little strips of paper that I've just hand cut. It could be computer paper, any paper you have and just cut it into little strips and everyone can just write their fortune or they could just do drawings. I've had a mix of so many different ways that people can express themselves.
Jessie Sheehan:
And are there any tips for doing this? You're just eyeballing these shapes of paper when you're cutting them out from a piece of paper?
Diana Yen:
I just eyeball it. I don't even use a ruler or anything. I just find any paper around it. Usually if you use something that's a little bit thicker though, it might hold up a little better.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay, good to know.
Diana Yen:
If people want to keep their fortune.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay, so next we're going to heat the oven to 375 degrees Fahrenheit, and we're going to spray a baking sheet liberally with some nonstick spray.
Diana Yen:
I have always had just classic Nordic Ware just a heavy sheet pan. That feels nice to me and a Silpat. I think you could grease with anything. I think you could use softened butter. I think you could use some kind of neutral oil just to give it a little slick finish so it doesn't stick.
Jessie Sheehan:
But you don't use parchment paper?
Diana Yen:
I don't use parchment paper, but I think you could. I just liked using a Silpat more because of the thickness of it and I just always like working on it.
Jessie Sheehan:
So in a perfect world, you wouldn't even use spray. You would just put a Silpat mat down on the baking pan or then you would spray the Silpat?
Diana Yen:
I always grease it a little bit. I just don't trust anything.
Jessie Sheehan:
I know. I know.
Diana Yen:
When it comes to cookies and sticking and especially because they're so thin.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. No. I understand. Totally. And Silpat mats, just in case somebody doesn't know, can you describe what that is?
Diana Yen:
I think of it as a reusable nonstick-
Jessie Sheehan:
Mat.
Diana Yen:
Mat. Yeah. That you can use over and over. So it's nice you're not using ... You don't have to dispose of it so you can have it for years. It's really nice.
Jessie Sheehan:
And it's also nice because it can keep your pan clean because you don't have to spray anything on the pan, you just put the Silpat mat down.
Diana Yen:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
So now we're going to melt unsalted butter in a small saucepan.
Diana Yen:
I have been using Mepra for a long time. It's an Italian brand. Those are my special pans. But I've used so many different kinds and I have a lot of vintage copper pans as well.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh. So we're going to melt the butter in a small saucepan over low heat. We're going to set aside. Do we want the butter to come to room temperature at this point or are we just warm is going to be fine, we just want to set it aside?
Diana Yen:
I think warm is fine and set it aside.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay, perfect. So now in a stand mixer. And do you have a KitchenAid?
Diana Yen:
Yes. Always a KitchenAid. I've had the same one for so many years. They last forever.
Jessie Sheehan:
They really do.
Diana Yen:
There really isn't any substitute for KitchenAid. That's something that is a must.
Jessie Sheehan:
I agree.
Diana Yen:
So in our stand mixer, our KitchenAid with the paddle attachment. Now I wondered could we use the whisk attachment?
Jessie Sheehan:
Looking back, I think a whisk attachment works too if you don't have it because it is quite a runny batter.
Diana Yen:
Okay. Perfect. So we're going to either use the paddle or the whisk and we're going to beat the egg whites and the superfine sugar. Can you tell us why we need superfine sugar here?
Jessie Sheehan:
For this one, the cookies are so thin and it doesn't go for very long and you just want to make sure that it really mixes into the batter.
Diana Yen:
Yeah. That superfine sugar I think will incorporate into those egg whites faster and more easily. I find it pretty easy to find in the grocery store. So even though it might seem like a fancy ingredient, it's really not. And you can also just take regular sugar and put it in a mortar pestle and just grind it super thin.
Jessie Sheehan:
Love it. Love a tip.
Diana Yen:
Yeah, that works.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then on medium speed for about 30 seconds, we're just going to incorporate this together. So we're not hoping at this point that we reach soft peaks or medium peaks. We're just trying to get those two ingredients incorporated.
Diana Yen:
Yeah. It's just a very runny batter actually.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh of course. In the end it's going to be runny because we're going to be drizzling it almost or pouring it onto our pan. Now we're gradually going to add all-purpose flour.
Diana Yen:
I always use King Arthur, whatever I can find at the grocery store. I do also love Florist, but I usually use that for special purposes like pies and othercookies.
Jessie Sheehan:
Tell us about Florist. I don't think I know that brand.
Diana Yen:
Florist, I believe is from Canada and they've sent me some really amazing fresh ground flours with different kinds of grains.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Diana Yen:
Yeah. So it's really fun and beautiful packaging.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, I love that.
Diana Yen:
The quality's amazing.
Jessie Sheehan:
Sounds like a good present for somebody.
Diana Yen:
Yes. Anyone that loves to bake, it's gorgeous and really special. So I've done these I think with the Florist flour as well. I think for this, King Arthur. Just keep it basic.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we're going to gradually add our all-purpose flour. We're going to add some kosher salt. Diamond crystal?
Diana Yen:
Yeah. Just the classic.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep. And we're going to beat that together until incorporated. Still on medium speed?
Diana Yen:
Mm-hmm.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then we're going to pour in our melted butter, which is probably a little warm now, and we're going to pour in a little bit of heavy cream. Can you tell us why we have the heavy cream?
Diana Yen:
Yeah. I think it adds a little depth to it and maybe with this one it is a pretty runny batter already, so maybe the heavy cream just gives a little more fat.
Jessie Sheehan:
And almost gives it a little more heft than just straight water because we do have a little bit of water as well. And I think that's probably maybe contributing to that runniness that we're after so that these cuties bake up extra thin.
Diana Yen:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
And we're going to beat all of this until incorporated. Same speed? Same medium speed?
Diana Yen:
Yeah. I think it's pretty simple. It's almost like making a pancake batter. It's very loose and easy to work with.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. And maybe because we only have the egg whites, we don't have the whole egg, that little bit of fat gives a little bit of fat back into the recipe when we're taking it out.
Diana Yen:
Yes. Yes. That's a good point.
Jessie Sheehan:
Now we're going to divide our batter into two bowls because we're going to be making two different flavors of fortune cookies. Although I guess if you just wanted to do all matcha or you just wanted to do all sesame you could just do this in one bowl.
Diana Yen:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
But now we're going to add some matcha powder to one of the bowls. And I had a couple of questions.
Diana Yen:
Sure.
Jessie Sheehan:
First of all, can you tell people what it is in case they don't know?
Diana Yen:
Matcha is green tea basically. And the matcha powder is really fine. So when you're baking with it it's great because it just dissolves right into your batter.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. It's almost like the consistency of cocoa powder or confectioner's sugar.
Diana Yen:
Yes. Confectioner's sugar. Very delicate and it just melts right in, but it has a very earthy flavor that we all love.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. Since most people I think are drinking matcha like in tea, is there any difference when you're baking with it?
Diana Yen:
I know that they sell a culinary grade of matcha, which is ideal for baking. I'm guessing that the qualities are a little bit different. But you can find those pretty much anywhere. I really like the one from Hustle that they serve at MatchaBar. I also love the CAP Beauty one. Golde makes a great one. So many good matchas now.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yum. I wish we were drinking it. So we're going to add that matcha powder to one of the bowls. We're going to add ground black sesame seeds to the other bowl. And I had a couple of questions. Are we grinding it ourselves or are we buying it ground?
Diana Yen:
I usually grind it myself because I keep black sesame seeds in my pantry and I just put it into a mortar and pestle and give it a grind or a food processor just so it gets a little more powdery.
Jessie Sheehan:
Sometimes I keep my sesame seeds in the freezer. Do you think that's overkill that you can keep them in the pantry or does it just depend on how frequently you use them?
Diana Yen:
I think you're just more pro than me. Because I remember people telling me that too and I always forget. Mine tastes fine though.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay, good. So we can grind it ourselves in a mortar and pestle. Could you also use a little spice grinder? I know people put them in a coffee-
Diana Yen:
A coffee grinder. I use that for so many spices and same for sesame seeds. It's perfect.
Jessie Sheehan:
I actually at this point have a designated coffee grinder that I don't even grind coffee in.
Diana Yen:
That makes sense.
Jessie Sheehan:
Just for spices.
Diana Yen:
Yeah. So you can keep it its own flavor.
Jessie Sheehan:
Even though then all the spices mix together, but still there's no coffee. We've added our ground black sesame seeds to one bowl and our matcha to the other bowl, and we're just going to stir our matcha into one, our black sesame seeds into the other with just like a little fork or a whisk or any particular tool?
Diana Yen:
I think a small whisk, it works great. But if you don't have one, a fork is fine. I do only use a small whisk for everything. I've never used a regular-sized whisk. Not for years.
Jessie Sheehan:
I hate a regular sized whisk.
Diana Yen:
Me too.
Jessie Sheehan:
I'm just going to come clean. I don't mind medium. And I'm often grabbing medium, but really large, no way. And I love the tiny ones.
Diana Yen:
I only use tiny.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah.
Diana Yen:
I don't know what it is. You're just closer to the bowl. You have less of these wires. It just feels like you're so far from what you want.
Jessie Sheehan:
I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't agree with you more. I love a little tiny whisk.
Diana Yen:
I agree.
Jessie Sheehan:
So now we're going to pour just a tablespoon. It's a tiny amount of the batter onto our prepared baking sheet. And I wondered, do you use a tablespoon measuring spoon? Do you have a tiny portion scoop, like a little tiny ice cream scoop? What do you usually use?
Diana Yen:
I actually just use a normal tablespoon and it has that round bottom. So I pour onto the Silpat and then I use the bottom of the spoon to do a circular motion to spread it out.
Jessie Sheehan:
We're pouring out our tablespoon of let's say the matcha batter and then when we're spreading it, is it because even though it's a thin batter, it's going to keep its shape at first and you want to just make it a slightly thinner and wider circle?
Diana Yen:
Yeah. It's almost a little bit like making pancakes or crepes. You just want to get it thin and even consistency and then have a really nice round shape so you can control the shape when you're shaping it.
Jessie Sheehan:
I bet you were so good at this. Mine are oblong shape. I can never get it together.
Diana Yen:
Oh, actually one thing that I do that I love is sometimes I will print out the circles and put it under my Silpat and be able to see through it, and then you can fill in the circles if you want perfectly circular.
Jessie Sheehan:
That is brilliant. And now that you've said that you've jarred my memory and I think that I did something like that. Maybe took a piece of parchment paper, made the circles on it, and then flipped it over so you don't get the ink.
Diana Yen:
Yes. And you can see through it.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah.
Diana Yen:
That's really nice.
Jessie Sheehan:
I think I would have to do that, honey. I think I would run into trouble if I was trying to be Diana and be like free form. We put one tablespoon down, do we want a two inch? I wonder how big we want that shape to be.
Diana Yen:
It's probably almost three or three and a half inches.
Jessie Sheehan:
Almost three inches. Yeah.
Diana Yen:
It's bigger than the fortune cookie you see in the restaurant. Definitely. Because you want to be able to fit the paper in and have it be easy to shape. It's a little bit more closer to three inches.
Jessie Sheehan:
And I was just thinking of a biscuit cutter I have at home that's three inches. That would be perfect if you want to draw those circles for putting that down on your piece of parchment, let's say.
Diana Yen:
That's a great idea. And then just flip it over, then you have something to work with.
Jessie Sheehan:
I feel like people do that when they make macaron.
Diana Yen:
They do.
Jessie Sheehan:
They'll be like a macaron Silpat that has the little circles.
Diana Yen:
Exactly. It's sort of the same thing. So you get the consistency of the size.
Jessie Sheehan:
So now we're going to repeat with the remaining matcha batter followed by the black sesame batter, and we're going to leave about two inches in between each cookie just because ... Do they spread?
Diana Yen:
A little bit, but not a lot actually.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then we're going to bake the cookies on the middle rack in the oven for about six to eight minutes just until the edges slightly darken. I remember this for making them myself. It's surprising how quickly they're done.
Diana Yen:
It is so fast. You close the oven, you check and then it's time for the next round. It's really fast.
Jessie Sheehan:
100%. Which is nice.
Diana Yen:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
I think sometimes those laborious cookie processes where it's long time in between each round, you feel like you're making cookies for the entire day.
Diana Yen:
I think it does take the entire day most of the time. These are pretty fast.
Jessie Sheehan:
So you then remove the sheet pan from the oven and then working really quickly, we're going to grab an offset spatula.
Diana Yen:
I use the pretty standard size. Is that one inch?
Jessie Sheehan:
Maybe almost a three. The small sized offset.
Diana Yen:
The smaller. Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Which I also have to say I always use that rather than the larger offset.
Diana Yen:
Oh, I would never.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Yeah. Even if I'm frosting a cake that's big, I would be like, where's my baby? Where's my baby offset?
Diana Yen:
You just have more control when you're working with the smaller tools I think.
Jessie Sheehan:
I couldn't agree-
Diana Yen:
For baking especially.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. I totally agree. So we're going to grab our small offset and we're going to use it to lift up one of our cookies. And this is as soon as it comes out of the oven, correct?
Diana Yen:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
So it's still pretty hot. And we're going to place the fortune in the center of the cookie. Have we lifted the cookie up so the spatula is in our hand holding the cookie off of the mat?
Diana Yen:
I remember you're using the offset to pick it up a bit. Yeah, you are.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then you were going to put your fortune down in the center and now this is when, Diana, you were saying that your fingers can get a little burnt. You're going to use your fingers or the end of a wooden spoon to fold the cookie in half and make a half moon shape.
Diana Yen:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Diana Yen:
I have so many spoons that have mysteriously appeared in my life. I don't know where they come from. I just have them. They're old and you just want a smaller dowel.
Jessie Sheehan:
And you prefer the spoon or just using your fingers?
Diana Yen:
I use my fingers for everything. But I have done this with friends many times and I have gotten yelled at because they're like, "Ow, ow, ow." It depends how sensitive your fingertips are. If you cook a lot and you're not afraid of hot surfaces, then it's no problem. But if someone's really sensitive, maybe using the dowel.
Jessie Sheehan:
Well, I always say, and I really believe your hands are your best tool if you can use them. Back to this idea of tiny tools. I also think your hands, you have the most control.
Diana Yen:
Yes, absolutely.
Jessie Sheehan:
And I love that. So we're going to fold the cookie in half, so it's this half moon shape and then we're going to pinch together ... It's a half moon or almost like a taco.
Diana Yen:
Yes, it's a taco.
Jessie Sheehan:
Great minds. Yes. I have written here like taco shape. And then we're going to carefully bend the two open ends or flat ends of the semicircle towards each other.
Diana Yen:
You can just pinch them together.
Jessie Sheehan:
Pinching them together. And we're working really quickly, yes?
Diana Yen:
Very fast.
Jessie Sheehan:
Is the idea that the longer the fortune cookies rest on the pan, the less malleable they become?
Diana Yen:
They start to harden as they cool so you need to work while they're still quite warm.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. And do you find your first ones are the best because they're the easiest to mold?
Diana Yen:
Yeah. Probably the middle because that's when I'm the most brave.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Diana Yen:
The first one you're like, how do I do this? And then once you do a few, you start to get it and then by the end they start to cool down, but they're still amazing.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then you're going to place the cookie once you've pinched it together into a small bowl or a muffin tin. And do we do that so that it keeps its shape?
Diana Yen:
Yes. That really helps it keep its shape. I have little latte bowls that I put onto the side and I just have all these fortune cookies cooling in each bowl.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that.
Diana Yen:
Just anything you can find that's like a little cup shape.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then we allow it to set for four to five minutes, but they cool so quickly.
Diana Yen:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
And I remember ... I don't know if you've ever done this, but I'm pretty sure when I made them previously, I think I dipped them in chocolate. I'm trying to think of which end. I guess you'd want to do the ends that are more open.
Diana Yen:
Yes. Dip those in chocolate.
Jessie Sheehan:
Dip those in milk chocolate or dark chocolate or even white chocolate. I know white chocolate's a ... Not everyone loves it, but I do.
Diana Yen:
That sounds delicious.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then you could even dip it in some nuts or some sprinkles and make it really festive.
Diana Yen:
Yeah. That sounds amazing.
Jessie Sheehan:
If you weren't going to be making fortune cookies, let's say for the holidays or for Chinese New Year, what other baked goods would Diana throw down? When you're entertaining your friends just on a regular night in Ojai, would you make a sweet for everyone?
Diana Yen:
I'm such a savory person. I usually focus on the savory, but when I do sweets, I love panna cotta custards, things like that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Do you pick such great flavors like matcha and black sesame seed? What are your go-to flavors? Panna cotta is so delicious. Do you just do it straight up?
Diana Yen:
I do it pretty simple, but I usually see what's in my pantry. I do love using rose water, orange blossom and giving things a light floral flavor too.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh. So delicious. And has it been just mind-blowing having access to all of the different ingredients in California? Not that New York doesn't have great ingredients because we do, but has that just been incredible in terms of your cooking and baking?
Diana Yen:
I think so because we have amazing fruit. Especially citrus in the winter, figs, anything you can think of. So I think it's really great to be in California for fruit-forward baking.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. And also I imagine ... I'm just thinking about “Slow Burn.” I would think that both ... Well definitely vegetables. But I would even think fruit could feature heavily because I love cooked fruit, cooking fruit in a cast iron skillet over an open flame and it gets that smoky flavor.
Diana Yen:
Yes. Bananas are the best fruit ever for on the fire.
Jessie Sheehan:
Tell me how you would prepare those.
Diana Yen:
One of my favorite things to make when I'm camping are banana boats. Have you've ever had them?
Jessie Sheehan:
I think I have. Describe please.
Diana Yen:
So it's very simple and it's a really great alternative to a s'more. You take a banana and you split it in half, but you keep the bottom intact. So imagine you're splitting this banana, you have it opening and you stuff it with marshmallows and chocolate pieces and you can add some fruit to it if you want. Wrap the whole thing in foil and then put it into the coals of the fire. At the end of the night it's really nice. And you just let it cook. I let it cook for a long time. I love the cooked banana.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Diana Yen:
And then you open it and you can just eat it straight from the foil with a fork and it's so delicious.
Jessie Sheehan:
It sounds so delicious. When I said tell us about banana boats, I wasn't sure the name of this thing that I've made, but essentially it's exactly what you're describing. Although I did it in my oven. I wanted banana s'mores when I was at home. I also, when I was little, one of my favorite desserts was take a banana, cut it open, cover it in brown sugar and butter and then put it in the toaster. Oh my God.
Diana Yen:
The toaster?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah.
Diana Yen:
A banana?
Jessie Sheehan:
Toaster oven.
Diana Yen:
Okay. I was imagining-
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. No. I wasn't-
Diana Yen:
Young Jessie putting just a banana into the toaster.
Jessie Sheehan:
A banana where the toast should go.
Diana Yen:
To understand how that works. I'm like, your parents must have been really mad.
Jessie Sheehan:
So I can really relate to how delicious a cooked banana is.
Diana Yen:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
So good. I'm also imagining you could ... I don't know what the savory dishes that you're going to be making over the fire, but that you would be adding fruit even with something that was savory. Making some kind of sweet and salty or savory fruit compote. I'm just getting excited. I don't even like camping.
Diana Yen:
You don't?
Jessie Sheehan:
No. But don't tell my husband because he loves it and I have to pretend that I'm like, yeah, camping.
Diana Yen:
Well, food tastes really great off the fire.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Diana Yen:
You can't really replicate that anywhere else.
Jessie Sheehan:
I also love that it's like the book is really inspired by where you live. This is probably not ... You could write this book living in New York, of course, but it would be harder unless you had the backyard to also be able to offer people like this is what you can do camping, but you can also do this just in your backyard on your own fire pit.
Diana Yen:
Yeah. It's perfect for California because people really entertain in their yards. Some people, I've never been in their house. I've been friends with them for years. You just go into their yard. It's weird.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that.
Diana Yen:
That's California style.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. I love that.
Diana Yen:
You just meet for dinner in someone's yard.
Jessie Sheehan:
I know not everyone has a New Year's resolution, but are there things that you think about when the year comes to an end?
Diana Yen:
I'm just spending more time on my self-care and being introspective, especially at the end of the year. I think that's so important.
Jessie Sheehan:
Me too. Me too. I also like to think about in a good way ... I like to think it's a positive, but in a good way I work too much. But I always think at the end of the year I really want to work on just chilling out a little bit. I don't know if I can pull it off. But do you have the same thing? I guess that's when you say self-care. That is the same thing.
Diana Yen:
Yeah. I moved to California to chill out a bit and I am embracing that lifestyle. It's really different to take a walk in the morning before you start to work and you're just really paying attention to the seasons and it really helps fuel all the work that I can do later in the day. So I think it's important to take a bit of time in the morning for yourself no matter what you're doing.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay. That might be my resolution because that sounds really nice.
Diana Yen:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Thank you so much for chatting with me today, Diana. And I just want to say that you are my cherry pie and have a really good new year.
Diana Yen:
You too, Jessie. Thank you so much.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's it for today's show. Thank you to Plugrà Premium European Style Butter and California Prunes for their support. Don't forget to subscribe to She's My Cherry Pie on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen and tell your baking buddies about us. She's My Cherry Pie is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network and is recorded at CityVox Studio in Manhattan. Our producers are Kerry Diamond and Catherine Baker. Our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu and our editorial assistant is Londyn Crenshaw. Thank you so much for listening to She's My Cherry Pie and happy baking.