katherine lewin transcript
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Hi, everyone. You're listening to The Future Of Food Is You, a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Abena Anim-Somuah, and each week I talk to emerging talents in the food world and they share what they're up to as well as their dreams and predictions for what's ahead. As for me, I'm the founder of The Eden Place, a community that's all about gathering people intentionally around food. I love this new generation of chefs, bakers, and creatives making their way in the world of food, drink, media, and tech.
Today's guest is Katherine Lewin, owner and founder of Big Night. Big Night is a shop that is for dinner, parties, and dinner parties. They have two wonderful locations in Greenpoint, Brooklyn and the West Village here in New York City, and they also ship nationwide. Katherine and I talk about the power of a cold email to achieve your dreams, how her time at J. Crew and The Infatuation helped her when it came to running Big Night, and how she wants to create a shop centered around gathering communities. Stick around for our chat.
Thank you to Kerrygold for supporting The Future of Food Is You. Kerrygold is the iconic Irish brand famous for its rich butter and cheese made in Ireland with milk from grass fed cows. If you're like me, you've always got some butter in your fridge, and Kerrygold has the perfect options for all my culinary personalities. My baker side loves Kerrygold Pure Irish Unsalted Butter that comes in sticks because it's easy to measure, has the high butter fat content you need for baked goods, and it allows me to control the amount of salt in a recipe. When my snacky side comes out and I need a soft spreadable butter for making, let's say grilled cheese, I reach for Kerrygold Irish Butter with Olive Oil. And the gourmand in me loves the new Kerrygold Butter Blends, their take on compound butter, which is a chef fave. There's sun dried tomato and basil bell pepper and garden herbs or chive and onion. Try the new Kerrygold Butter Blends on steamed veggies mixed in with your favorite pasta or slathered on a beautiful piece of fresh bread. And then of course, there's a whole world of Kerrygold Cheese to explore, including two of my faves, Kerrygold Blarney Cheese, which is a Gouda style and Kerrygold Skellig, a tangy take on cheddar. If you haven't tried Kerrygold yet, don't delay, the future is now. Look for their butter and cheese at your favorite supermarket, specialty grocery store, or cheese shop. Visit kerrygoldusa.com for recipes and product information.
Let's check in with today's guest. Katherine, thank you so much for joining us on The Future Of Food Is You podcast.
Katherine Lewin:
I am so excited to be here with you, Abena.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, just the best. Can you tell us where you grew up and how did food show up in your life?
Katherine Lewin:
Absolutely. I like to say that I grew up in both L.A. and Austin. I was born in L.A. and then my mom and I moved to Austin, Texas when I was about four. I grew up with my mom in Austin, but also visiting my dad in Los Angeles, two cities with amazing food cultures and that was also sort of a golden period of Austin in the '90s when the food was so incredible. And it also had not been discovered as this major, whatever Austin is now, it was not then. So, I think I was really spoiled growing up just around truly casually incredible food and such a diversity of cuisine in Austin as well. And I feel really lucky that I spent a lot of childhood there.
But it was also really cool to visit my dad in LA and sort of see a totally different sprawling food city, a place that was so different from Austin in every single way. And yet, I think they're both cities where food is really important to everyone who lives there.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. So, you go to USC, and again, you get to really experience L.A. in that awesome way, and then you come to New York to work for what you dubbed your first dream job. Can you tell us about it?
Katherine Lewin:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And what were you doing there?
Katherine Lewin:
Okay, so I thought I wanted to be a fashion girly and so...
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And you are a fashion girly.
Katherine Lewin:
Thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I must say.
Katherine Lewin:
So, in college I was thinking about working in magazines, media, specifically focused on fashion, and I got this internship at Vogue on the West Coast. So, I was in the L.A. office that led to one of, I would say, the first sort of fateful job moments of my life, which is I was working in an event, Jenna Lyons was there, and I pleaded with my boss. I said, "I know we're not supposed to talk to the talent." This was the CFDA awards or something. "I know we're not supposed to talk to the talent, but Jenna Lyons is my icon. Can I please chat with her?" And for some reason she said, "Okay."
And so, I walked up to Jenna and I have no idea what I said, I blacked out, but something to the effect of, and this was 2011 or so, so peak J. Crew dominance, Michelle Obama wearing all the clothes all the time. It was just a really special moment for them. And so, I think I just said how much I admired her and what she was doing and she was so receptive and gave me her assistance email and that led to an interview for an internship and that internship led to my first job at J. Crew.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow.
Katherine Lewin:
So, I don't know. I'll always say the power of a cold email, but also the power of a cold walk up to someone and just shoot your shot. So, I was at J. Crew and I was a merchant there. And essentially, what that means is you're basically a buyer except for instead of something like Bloomingdale's where a buyer might shop at Marc Jacobs or Versace or whatever, you're shopping from your own designers who are creating their vision of the future of dressing, and then as a merchant, you're thinking about what's sellable? Let's take that pant, run it in this color, add a button. I'll be honest and say, I was in that job learning from some of the best in the business and I was like, "Oh my God, I don't belong here. What have I done?" So many spreadsheets, so many Excel sheets. I did not take a math class in college, which might've been a big mistake.
And I just remember thinking, I don't belong and I'm really bad at this. I'm so bad at this and feeling so bad about myself for being bad at it, feeling like I was squandering this opportunity. I really felt like, "Wow, this isn't working for me." And I had a lot of shame about that. Little did I know that the retail skills that I was picking up at that time over a decade ago would help inform everything I did to open Big Night. I mean, I truly could not have ever predicted the connection of those dots because pretty much as soon as I got into merchandising, I thought, "I am not supposed to be here. I don't know how to do math. This is wrong."
But I was still absorbing and trying my best to learn. And I often find that those moments that you struggle with the most have the potential to leave the biggest impact on you. So, it's like even in that moment when I was like, "Oh my God, I'm going to get fired. I'm so bad at my job." I was trying so hard to be better that I was really learning a lot. Ten years later, when I opened Big Night, I was pulling from the back of my brain, all of this retail foundation that I had thought at that time was going to lead to a fashion career.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You ended up working at another impressive New York City startup at that time, The Infatuation, which has now blossomed to one of the most prominent, I would say, food review media companies. What was it like being there as an early employer as well and what were some of the lessons you took from Infatuation to help you with Big Night?
Katherine Lewin:
The Infatuation also came about in kind of a funny way. I had managed to campaign my way into a lateral move at J. Crew into copywriting.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Very cool.
Katherine Lewin:
So, I had started cold emailing people on the marketing team saying, "I'm over here in merchandising, but I think I meant to be a writer. I'm pretty sure." And sending them basically pitches. Long story short, moved over to copywriting and started writing constantly all kinds of copy, like email copy, sale copy, product copy, telling the story of the products and the brand. At the same time, I was new to New York City, that was my second year in New York and I wanted to get to know it as best I could. And for me that meant eating in restaurants constantly. Any spare dollars I had leftover, I was spending them in restaurants, probably irresponsibly. Yeah and I feel like restaurants are one of the best ways you can get to know the city.
So, eating in restaurants all the time and becoming aware of this site called The Infatuation, a little bit of a mystery presence at that moment. I was like, "Who's behind this? Who are these people?" It was clear that it was two guys doing things a little bit differently than the rest of "food media." I was just paying attention to what they were saying. And I happened to find out that somebody in my department was married to somebody else who knew one of the guys, another cold email situation that I don't even need to get into. But long story short, I happened to find them and reach out to them in a moment when they were ready to hire their second employee on the editorial side.
So, they had hired Hillary who went on to be their editor in chief, and they were looking for basically another person to help them build an editorial team, and that was me. It felt so lucky at the time. I thought, "How am I someone that doesn't have culinary training," I worked in a restaurant but only summers in high school, "How did I land this?" And again, it was just a period of intense learning, not just how to be a better writer, but learning about food and restaurants. I was there for six years and not only did I learn about how to be a better writer, how to be an editor and about food, but also about building a team. Because when I left that position, I was leading a team of editors and writers. It was about 25 people at that time spanning from Los Angeles to London. I think it prepared me in so many ways for my current job, but I think the team building aspect was really important.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back.
Kerry Diamond:
Hi everybody, it's Kerry Diamond, the founder of Cherry Bombe. Abena is traveling right now, so I wanted to remind you that the launch party for our Future of Food issue is taking place, Thursday, September 21st in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Tickets are on sale right now at cherrybombe.com. Join me, Abena, the Cherry Bombe team, DJ Zeemuffin, and the folks on our Future of Food 50 List. It's all taking place at the Jolene Sound Room at Moxy Williamsburg Hotel. We'll have food, mocktails, cocktails, cake from your favorite cake folks and great music. I predict a lot of fun in your future. I hope to see some of you this Thursday.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Katherine, what is big night for our listeners who haven't gone to experience the brand yet?
Katherine Lewin:
Big Night is a dinner and party essential shop. It's focused on helping make every moment at home feel a little bit more special, especially those moments that happen in the kitchen and at the dining table.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How did you think about hosting before you started Big Night? You mentioned you worked a job where you probably spent most of your dinners outside to a job where you have to be inspired by eating inside.
Katherine Lewin:
Yeah, I was out hitting the pavement in restaurant dining rooms for work, a total dream scenario. But the thing about restaurants is that when you're eating in them constantly, you sometimes need a reset just to sit down and make something for yourself and remember how hard that is and reconnect with that aspect. And so, I found myself maybe a couple of years into that job really starting to want to learn more about how to cook, really how to cook, and how to share that with other people.
Me and also my husband, Alex. We just started coming up with menus and inviting people over and learned that we really loved to cook for people. We really loved to bring people over to our house. I really felt like there was this sort of magic that happens when people come into your home. It's your space. There's a generosity of you sharing that space and what you're cooking and what you're drinking with people, and there's a generosity to knowing that you don't have to get up quickly and pay the check and move on to the next place. There's space and time for conversations to wind and to new people to meet each other, and you never know exactly where the night's going to lead, which is true when you're in a restaurant too, but there's something special about creating a different kind of that feeling at home. I loved it. I missed it in the pandemic, which is what led to Big Night.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, that's so beautiful. When you and your husband were thinking about menus and drafting them up, what were some of the cookbooks or people that you could consider on your menu mood board?
Katherine Lewin:
Yeah, I feel like it was a mix of cookbooks and the internet. And I remember so specifically the very first dinner party that we hosted, and I've been looking through the pictures as I've been working on my cookbook just to sort of remember what that feeling was. And I believe it's a Sam Sifton's recipe. It's chicken shawarma. I think that's just what it's called. It's a simple recipe. You marinate the chicken in advance. And I just remember, again, this was the very first time I hosted and I remember thinking, okay, "This thing has thousands of five-star reviews. I could be one of them." I think hosting all comes down to finding a sense of confidence of, "You know what? I can do this and even if it fails, I'm going to be fine."
Kind of working my way up from there. I feel like everyone has that gateway drug recipe that they're like, "This is the one that I can make and I know it's going to turn out well and everyone's going to love it." And that was the one for me. And from there, it really just expanded. We cooked a lot from Marcella Hazan's cookbook. We cooked a lot from Ottolenghi. Those are two that immediately come to mind as foundational in that moment.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I love the story of how you discovered your first shop, which is in Greenpoint. What was that whole experience like?
Katherine Lewin:
In the pandemic, especially that first year, so 2020. I think we can all remember that moment of people growing scallions in mason jars on their window sills, people making sourdough, people just cooking because that is what there was to do. And I was clocking those people, clocking their cooking, and feeling like it's so sad that we can't share this cooking with each other. It's so sad that people are cooking for 10 and then just storing it all as leftovers and eating it for a week. And I started thinking about dinner parties and I started thinking about a magical place where when it was safe enough to gather again, people could be inspired to host dinner parties.
And so, I had this idea rattling around in my head. I didn't really know what it was. I was walking down the street one day in spring of 2021. I was just a couple minutes from my apartment and I looked at this space, a space that I had seen with my eyes thousands and thousands of times. But this time I looked at it and I noticed that there was a new broker sign in the window for lease. It was empty and it was formerly an Ovenly space, and at some point, during the pandemic, they had moved out. And I guess, in my mind, I had sort of assumed someone else will move in immediately, it was a great space. And it kind of just clicked like, "Wait, that's still sitting empty? I'm shocked." And I called the broker that day. I didn't know what I was doing. I pretended I knew anything about commercial real estate.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You were still at Infatuation full time, lest we forget.
Katherine Lewin:
Totally. I think that day I had off because it was the day before my birthday or something. And I feel like if, I mean it's silly, but if I had not been on a day off, I think I would've been in such Infatuation work brain that I wouldn't have even clocked. But on that day, I was like, I have an afternoon free. Should I just call this broker? I did. And he was like, "You want to see it today?" And I said, "I do." I came back later that day, I met him. We walked the space and basically from there, I just started, we like to call it deciding by doing, where I just started walking down the path thinking like, "This is crazy, right?" But let's just see. I don't have to sign a check anytime soon. I can just sort of explore this and that path led to what is now Big Night.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's amazing. Who were your people? Who were you talking to when you were thinking about this? I know your husband, Alex is, he's amazing and I always feel like he's always in the store just tinkering, vibing.
Katherine Lewin:
He's the biggest support. We like to joke that he has about 20 different job titles at Big Night. Although to be clear, he very much has another job that is not Big Night. One of my best friends, Skyler, is somebody who's also been involved in the food world and I had shared this sort of little kernel of a dream with her about the shop. And I think from the get go, she was probably the person who was most sort of like, "This is a really good idea. This is not just a whim. This store makes sense." She and I were talking a lot about it, but it still seemed like make-believe until I found the space. And then, having people like Alex and Skyler who I could kind of be walking down the path looking at being like, "Am I going to do this?"
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Keep climbing. Yeah.
Katherine Lewin:
Yeah. I think having those people in your corner that can say, "I don't know how you're going to do it, but yeah, try. Why not?" That was really important to feeling like I had the freedom and I deserved to walk down that path.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
When you were thinking about designing the space, you partnered with another friend of yours. Can you walk us through what those first conversations were looking like? Obviously, it's magical and mystical in your head, but taking magical and mystical and putting it into space...
Katherine Lewin:
Quite a different story.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. What does that look like?
Katherine Lewin:
I walked that space in March 21, and there were other people who were interested in the space. So, it was a total, I had no idea if it was going to pan out. All of the rest of March, all of April, all of May, and I didn't find out until June, I think June 1st that the company had chosen me to take the space over. I signed the lease June 6th, and I put in my notice June 7th. From June 7th to July 9th, I worked two jobs. I did my Infatuation job because I wanted to leave that in a really good spot. I owed so much to them and I loved my team so much that I couldn't give less than a month. I needed time to make sure everyone was in a good place. But I also needed to get going on Big Night.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Now, you've got to start paying rent.
Katherine Lewin:
Exactly. And just transparently, it's not like I took on investor money. I was taking a big risk financially, and as such, I needed to get that thing open so that we could start doing business. I am so lucky that one of my closest friends happens to be a brilliant general contractor and designer. I took her out to happy hour one day and I said, "I know we've been joke chatting about working on this. Can you help me design my store?" Keep in mind she is so busy, she has so many other projects.
But I sort of said, "Will you do this with me?" And she said, "Of course. Do you think I haven't been joking, have you been joking?" At that time, our budget was incredibly limited. The space constraints, it's a 240 square foot space. So, there were a lot of limitations there. But in a way, I also think that those limitations forced us to make decisions and create solutions very quickly.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's awesome. Obviously, you want to shout out your friend Erica Padgett?
Katherine Lewin:
Yes, thank you. So, her name's Erica Padgett. She owns a firm called DECORUM Design and Build, and she primarily works on residential projects. However, the secret sauce is that in her prior life she was at Soho House and then at the Wing, creating this sort of hybrid commercial retail spaces. So, to have somebody who knew about flow of traffic in a retail space but also knew what a beautiful kitchen looked like in the same person, it was just she couldn't have been more perfect for that. And she understood immediately what I meant when I said, "I know it's a small space, but I want you to feel like you're walking into your friend's house. I don't want this to feel like a store. I want it to feel like you're peering around someone's pantry and in their kitchen and in their shelves, just thinking about maybe stealing something from them."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Why did you choose the name Big Night?
Katherine Lewin:
The name Big Night came from my mom. I had a different name in mind for the store and I had been manifesting on this name. It was the name. When you just think about something over and over again and you refer to it as that thing, well, silly me. If you have a name for something, here's my advice. Grab the Instagram for it immediately. Because when push came to shove and I had to create the Instagram account, I noticed that somebody else opening a restaurant in New York City had grabbed that name and I was devastated because I'm not going to try to compete with their name and have two of the same, and I was genuinely mourning that name.
I just had to tell myself, everything must happen for a reason because that name was perfect. My mom was like, "We're going to come up with something else." And she just started sending me, she's a bit of an insomniac. I would wake up to emails from her with 10 different name ideas. One of those emails one morning was just one name. She said, "I've got it. It's Big Night."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You think she watched the Stanley Tucci movie the night before?
Katherine Lewin:
She was getting inspiration from those movies. So, she had also come up with Dinner at Eight, which I thought was really cute and that's also a classic movie. But when she said Big Night, it was just like, "That's it." And now, I'm so grateful because that name actually is so much more, I think expansive and inclusive. A big night doesn't have to be a dinner party or it could be anything. It could be a night at home with just yourself on the couch. That's a big night too.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So, you have so many incredible products. Every time I walk into Big Night, it's like I walk in for one thing, I leave at six and with good reason. And what I love though is you've got specialty store brands, like classic specialty store brands. You've got new CPG brands, but you've also got incredible home goods, which I just am obsessed with the curation. What does the process in putting things on the shelves look like?
Katherine Lewin:
So, from a business perspective with Big Night, I knew what I wanted this store to feel like and I knew how I wanted to add value to people's lives. I also was fascinated with why are food items and home items always separate? When I'm buying cheese, I want to imagine the beautiful cheese plate that cheese is going to be on.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So true.
Katherine Lewin:
I want to imagine the cheese knives and the linens and maybe the glassware that people are having champagne with next to. And I became sort of obsessed with, is there a loophole? Why don't I ever see special food items merchandised with special home items and really cohesively. I remember Googling, "Am I legally allowed to sell cheese where I sell?" And I realized, "No, there's no reason why people don't do this. I want to try." Because I want to walk into an immersive place that makes me feel like not only can I buy the cheese, but they're going to help me put that cheese plate together and create this big night experience at home.
So, that's always what I'm aiming for is for someone to feel like they can walk in and even if they've never hosted or they don't know anything about cheese or maybe they've never made an investment purchase for their dining table, that we're going to be there to help not just figure out what to buy, which sounds so transactional. But more so, figure out the pieces that make the most sense for their homes and will bring them the most joy. For me, the curation has to be equal parts food and home because that's how we experience big nights at home.
So, we're always trying to balance those two categories, put them in different conversations with each other and bring in newness. Because I think one thing that I love about our customers is they really want to discover new ingredients, new pieces, new makers. They want to hear the story of the makers, "Who made this? Why is it special? What do I need to know about it?" And we love telling those stories and sharing those stories.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And something I love about you is you're incredibly well traveled. I'm really fascinated to hear how do you use your travels and observations to discover new brands? Because I'm sure you're just being that when you travel, food is the compass...
Katherine Lewin:
Everything, too much, yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That you're using to go, yeah. It's like, "How close is my hotel to all the restaurants?"
Katherine Lewin:
I think that travel, for me, let's just say I haven't had time to travel about doing sourcing. I wish that that, that was my life. The real answer is I have not had time to do that, and I'm really lucky that the internet is travel you can do from your couch. That being said, the travel that I have taken since I've opened the store and that I plan to take and that I am taking a vacation in a couple of weeks and I'm already thinking about, it's less about, "Ooh, where this plate that I'm eating off of come from?" And more like, "How do people in different places gather around food?" And how is that different and how can we learn from that sensibility and bring some of that into our store?
I think the most beautiful thing about food is the way in which it's experienced differently all over the world. And I'm fascinated by bringing as many different perspectives on not just cooking, but also gathering around food into our stores. So, when I travel, I'm just observing. I feel like I'm a sponge, just sort of absorbing.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How do you develop and maintain relationships with distributors? Let's look at the back of the shop.
Katherine Lewin:
I love these questions, and to be honest, one really rewarding and cool thing is I've gotten a lot of emails from people hoping to start stores in their own cities and sort of wondering about this. And there's no playbook to this world, which I learned very quickly when I quit my job and started cold emailing people who made food products. I mean, it's such a vast category and what I learned is to really do it the way that I wanted to do it. I had to build individual relationships with small brands. There are food distributors and a distributor basically means they represent a bunch of brands and then they sell on behalf of those brands and then they deliver the goods on behalf of those brands. And those distributors are great.
But the scale doesn't make sense for stores like mine. They are not interested in delivering a little store like mine, two cases of something because that's all we can fit. And that wasn't explained to me by anyone. It was just really having to talk to the people who are actually making the foods. And so, I think one of the really fateful things about Big Night, and I think something that people assume was part of my master plan but actually really was not, is that the moment that I was building Big Night was also part of this moment of just CPG boom. I didn't plan that. I don't think I quite grasped it until, for example, we put Fishwife on the shelves and I felt like Fishwife was a band that people were coming in and fan drilling over. I didn't predict that, I didn't plan that.
But I feel really lucky because suddenly, so many incredible new brands were popping up and it became easier to have conversations with them about what we were trying to do. How we do it is we have relationships with so many vendors and it's all one-to-one, emailing, updates, chatting, and it's very manual in that way, but it's worth it because not only do we feel even closer to the product because we know who's behind it, but we can share that with our customers.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How do you feel a connection to a brand and think, "Oh yes, I own this on our shelves."
Katherine Lewin:
Obviously, tasting it. We're really lucky in that we receive a lot of samples and we do our best to try every single one, and that's been really special, but we also do a lot of deep internet stocking. We're looking, I would say Instagram is super helpful. Every time we're out and about, I'm always looking to see, "Have I seen all of these products before? What's that?" I still cold call all the time, like snap a picture on my phone, get home and find an info address for a little jar of something I've seen. Inspiration comes from everywhere and we do our best to balance the brands that people already love and adore with highlighting brands that people haven't heard of and that we're really excited to give voice to.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's so beautiful. You have your store in Greenpoint, your OG store, Big Night number one, and you just opened your second store in the West Village, which it just makes so much sense, the vibe, the aesthetics. Why was it important for you to start Big Night as a brick and mortar store, especially starting Big Night during the pandemic when there wasn't, especially in a tight space, people probably weren't feeling comfortable. We were still ordering our groceries online, wiping them down, doing all that.
Katherine Lewin:
Yeah, it's funny. I remember on opening day of our original Green Point, people were like, "So this is a popup, right? And then you're going to go online. This is a temporary thing, right?" And having to explain to people at that time we didn't have online, I had no shame in saying, I am a one woman show. I am not just going to flip on a site just to sell stuff online. That's not me. I wanted to create an experience and build a world for people to step into. And that came from me honestly and selfishly feeling really sick of looking at my computer screen. I think we all had just lived so much life online for the past over a year at that point, and I was craving connection to people.
I wanted to build something that allowed other people to make connections and the idea of a dinner party shop just didn't make sense to me online. It's about gathering. I need to create a space where people can walk in, get inspired to do that, and I hadn't figured out how to do that online and I wasn't going to just do it just because being online seemed like the thing to do and I wasn't excited about that. I wanted to build a store in real life that would then inform an online experience and that's why I waited over a year to launch online because I spent a lot of time thinking about how to make this site feel. Obviously, it's not going to recreate walking into a store, but I really wanted it to feel like when you went to the website, you were entering into something. I feel like we did that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Who do you think your ideal customer is and how do you think about building relationships in the communities that you exist in right now?
Katherine Lewin:
Our ideal customer is anybody who loves to either cook or host or just eat, and more generally, who wants to live a really good life at home. I feel really lucky that in the Greenpoint store we have this crew of regulars that we see at least once a week who are coming in to get things that actually they use in their lives. And that means like, "Ugh, I just feel like a hunk of good cheese and crackers for dinner. I can't even think about cooking. I'm just going to grab those things." We have our people in the neighborhood who actually shop us regularly, and then we also have people who visit us from all over the country in the world.
And to be able to have both at the same time, this super crew of customers, many of whom have been with us since the beginning, who come to us for their daily needs, and then also to have these destination shoppers who do us the honor of making Big Night a point to visit during their trip. I loved that and I saw it pretty quickly and that's what gave me the confidence to want to open a second location because I thought it's amazing that we have Greenpoint regulars, but Greenpoint's pretty far out of the way for a lot of people, especially in other boroughs. I want to bring Big Night to a new group of regulars. I want to make new friends, new people who come to us for their daily, every desire and whim.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And how is the West Village store different from the Greenpoint store?
Katherine Lewin:
The West Village store, well, first of all, it's four times the size of the Greenpoint Store.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow.
Katherine Lewin:
Which you don't expect to move to Manhattan and get more space there.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Out of all the neighborhoods in...
Katherine Lewin:
It doesn't make sense.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah.
Katherine Lewin:
That's another fateful story. We found the space because a broker cold emailed me. That's the story. And I wasn't even looking for a space at that time. So, it's four times the size and what that actually means besides just the numbers of it all is when I walked into that space for the first time, I saw the potential for me to really realize the dream of a truly shoppable apartment. That was the original inspiration for that one room in Greenpoint, and I could see the ways in which this West Village space was going to let me spread out and do it.
We have a dining room, we have a pantry, we have a bar, we have a kitchen, we even have a shoppable bathroom. It's a fantasy land for me. I thought, "Let me build my fantasy store. I hope other people will enjoy it as much as I do." And really creating that experience of being able to walk around and hang out on the rooms that you most relate to and are most interested in. Some people go straight for the pantry. Some people are like, "Whoa, what is this bar? I want to live here." Some people are like, "Wait, there's a bathroom?" And they're peeking in, picking out bath towels. And it's just been a joy and a real privilege to see that sort of dream come to life.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How have you made space for people to walk in and chat for an hour? Or you mentioned your regulars just feeling like it's another stop on the way home? Or maybe it's a place to come and just try something new or discover something for them themselves?
Katherine Lewin:
I think it starts with the people on my team who are in the stores. That is why my team is the most important part of the business. Having people work at Big Night who are excited to be there and excited to meet people and talk to them. And our customers tell us that they love to come in and chat. So, that's key. Obviously, events are a big part of what we do and we try to build an events calendar that has a range of ways for people to find community. So, we do everything from a sip and sketch with one of our artist friends, Marianna Fierro, which is just, I don't know, to me that was the introvert's event, aka, like my dream because I'm an introvert where you're coloring, but you're meeting someone new next to you and you're sipping wine, you're getting to talk to somebody in a creative field. That's an example of a really fun way to meet new people.
But we also do sit down dinners. We just did an incredible backyard full on dinner party with the chefs behind some of my favorite restaurants in the city, Cervos, The Fly, Hearts. And that was so cool because we had 24 people sitting down in our backyard having a real meal and having that knowledge as a guest knowing I'm going to be surrounded by people that are interested in that same thing as me, I think is a bit of an icebreaker for people. But also, things just happen in store where someone will be standing at the cracker aisle and someone else is like, "Oh my God, that sourdough cracker changed my life. It's so good." And then suddenly, people are talking.
Or they're looking at an olive oil and they're like, "Did you know that this olive oil is made by this incredible woman in Greece?" And suddenly, they're the ones I'm like, "Do you guys want to come work here?" Suddenly, they're the ones telling each other stories, and that's really magical to see.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How do you balance out just making sure you have good product and also having events as an extension of the brand.
Katherine Lewin:
Events are hard. People don't say that enough, but they're really difficult to pull off well, and they do take a lot of time and effort and I have someone amazing on my team who helps us with all of them. But it's one of those things where once you do it and once you bring people together, you're like, "This is what it's all about." And those events help me stay really grounded in the fact that Big Night is a shop, but it's also a community. And the events are just a crucial part of that and about bringing people together, which was the original impetus for the store, which was combating that loneliness, feeling of, "I've been on my screen, I want to be in the real world. I want to touch and see and feel things with other people who also love food."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
How are you feeling about going into the fall? I know we know even getting inundated was pre-fall collections. What does pre-fall look like at Big Night for food?
Katherine Lewin:
I am so excited about this Fall and holiday because of a lot of reasons, but one of the main ones is we haven't had a Fall holiday in the West Village. We opened in May, so early summer and the summer vibe in the West Village has been impeccable. I truly can't wait to see what it feels like in Fall holiday. And what I know about Greenpoint is we have become a place that people come to gift their most favorite people in the holidays, and it is my and our team's favorite time of year. It is an honor for people to walk in and be like, "I'm buying gifts for every single person in my family and my friend group. Where do I start?" We love playing gift matchmaker because we're gifting people who love the same things we do, food, eating, gathering. So, even though I'm sad summer's ending, everyone on my team can't wait for holiday.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I am just so amazed at everything that you're doing in all the projects. And you announced a few months ago that you are publishing a cookbook about Big Night that is set to launch next year. Congratulations.
Katherine Lewin:
Thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Why did you think a cookbook was a great way to extend the Big Night universe?
Katherine Lewin:
So, I have a background in editorial. And I think one of the things that has kept me up at night is being as small of a team as we are, we have not gotten the chance to really put all of our goods and stories together in context and bring them to life in the way that I'm so excited to. And what I mean by that is just we have this incredibly stocked pantry, full of the most special ingredients. But how do you actually use those ingredients? How do you take those home and make a beautiful meal and showing that in more and more ways in the coming year? But a book felt like my way of really sitting down and saying, "Okay, here is why I built this store, to be able to take all the inspiration and ideas and ingredients within it and go home and build a big night."
We just wrapped the shoot, which was one of the most creatively thrilling moments of my life. We worked with just a team of incredible creatives, and I had chills as we were shooting because I just felt like this is the first time I really had a chance to put everything the store says into practice. Let's make a big night where we might be having delivery pizza, but there's an incredible salad and wine to go with it. Or you're going to cook some kind of Thanksgiving, Friendsgiving for the first time. Let's do that together and have it be whatever you want it to be and have it be the most delicious meal you've ever had.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I'm so excited to read it. How are you hoping that readers will feel when they pick up the book?
Katherine Lewin:
That any night can be a big night. That's it.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's the slogan.
Katherine Lewin:
And that anybody can be a host. That's my main thing. You don't have to be an excellent cook. You can be new in your journey of even knowing about how things are made or how to slice or dice. All you have to want is to be interested in bringing people together around food and you're well on your way. And I hope this book makes that feel accessible and fun and as special to readers as it is to me.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I want to talk about the finances of running a company like this. You mentioned you had a lot of magical fateful moments. But normally, when we're in those moments, the bank account statements are not floating there, I hope. How do you think about finances both in continuing to allow your business to grow, but also allowing you to feel that you're not being blocked from any sort of creative expressions that you want to have as you're building the store?
Katherine Lewin:
The first thing I would say here is there's a reason why Big Night started as a 240 square foot space because I won't say I was confident, but I felt like if I'm going to succeed, I'm going to sure as heck have a better chance of doing that in a 240 square foot space than some thousand square foot massive storefront. I remember people being like, "Oh, it's really small." And me being like, "No, it's perfect." Because that meant that the rent was affordable, relatively speaking, and even more so than the rent, it meant that I didn't need that much inventory to really fill it because it isn't just about the rent or the cost of the fridge or those sorts of things. In order to run a store, you have to buy product. And that's really scary when no one yet has entered the store for you to then sell them the product.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You got to buy to sell.
Katherine Lewin:
Yeah, you do. And there's so much startup costs just in the inventory. So, I thought my dream for a store is one that is packed, probably too much, probably too packed with special discoveries for people to find. And if I'm going to pack a store, I can't afford to pack a big store. I need to find a space that is small. That's the first hack or secret is find a space that you feel confident that you're not going to overextend yourself simply just having to stock it. That was one of the biggest things. I also just had to, before I signed anything, make sure I had a sense of what my out of pocket costs were going to be for the first year to get the thing up and running, and knowing how much I personally, financially had on the line.
If it failed, which no one wants to think about that, but you have to think about if this all implodes on me, what have I lost? I thought a lot about that and did a lot of calculations around that. And when I felt like I had arrived at a strategy that gave me a number that didn't terrify me too much and transparently, I put my whole savings into this, but it was what I wanted to do, and I felt like if I'm going to burn that money, I might as well do it on something that I'm really passionate about. And I was able to get to a number in doing those calculations that felt like, "Yeah, this would be a horrible amount of money to lose, but I personally can live with myself and that loss for me personally, financially, because I tried this thing."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow, that's powerful. And you've taken no outside capital since you've done this?
Katherine Lewin:
Mm-mm.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Not $1?
Katherine Lewin:
Mm-mm.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I'm actually blown away because for a lot of entrepreneurs, it's the norm, you just think, "Okay, friends and family around." Okay. If it's not the friends and family line, you find a grant or an angel or something."
Katherine Lewin:
Yeah, I was in a startup, so I feel like I got some exposure to that. And I think what people don't often think about when it comes to taking on money is then you have investors and the investors deserve and need to be managed. You have to keep that conversation going. You're accountable to people. And I've been running so fast just trying to build a business that I couldn't imagine the kind of stress of also having to answer to people who have given me large sums of money. So, Big Night, I know, has grown quickly, but each step has made me more confident about the next step, and I've been very intentional about making sure, "Okay, I think I really understand this before I move on to what's next."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Well, I have to ask, what's one local shop that you love in the city and what's one global shop you love going to?
Katherine Lewin:
There's a store in Beacon called Little King, incredible shop. They do it all. They have an amazing pastry program. They have an amazing coffee program. They sell incredible ingredients. They sell incredible items for the home. It's a couple that owns it. They're warm and lovely, and I can tell that their staff really enjoys being there too, which as we've talked about is so important. If you're in Beacon, go to Little King. I love it there. Wine and Eggs does what they do so well. It is so beautifully designed. The mix of wine and food items is impeccable. And if you're ever in Los Angeles, I highly recommend a trip there. It's definitely been an inspiration for us, and I'd recommend anyone stop in.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, amazing. Well, we're huge manifesters on the podcast, so I have to ask, who's your dream person to walk through Big Night?
Katherine Lewin:
So many people come to mind, but I'm thinking about this morning, I was reading this New Yorker piece about Sarah Jessica Parker. And when I found out in this piece that she actually works in the shoe store around the corner, so she has a Sarah Jessica Parker shoe store, and the piece talks about how she works the floor of the store. She is fitting people for shoes. And I had the thought if she walked into the store after she had been working in her own store...
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Just to grab some-
Katherine Lewin:
That would just be an amazing moment.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
... crackers and cheese.
Katherine Lewin:
Yeah.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
On her lunch break.
Katherine Lewin:
Yeah, exactly.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay. And just like that, she grabbed cheese. I love it. Well, Katherine, we are going to play our fun Future Food Is You Flash Five. How are you feeling?
Katherine Lewin:
I feel great.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay, let's get into it. The future of CPG products.
Katherine Lewin:
Traveling the world without leaving your pantry.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of brick and mortar stores.
Katherine Lewin:
All inclusive, all-encompassing experiences.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future for mission-driven founders.
Katherine Lewin:
Helping one another.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of food communities.
Katherine Lewin:
Gathering around the table.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And finally, the future of food editorial.
Katherine Lewin:
Showing us how it's really done at home.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, I love that. Katherine, I learned so much. Can't wait for your book to come out. Can we pre-order your book?
Katherine Lewin:
Not yet, but you should expect it in the summer of 2024.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Amazing. If we want to keep supporting you, where are the best places to find you?
Katherine Lewin:
On Instagram @BigNightShop or our website, www.shopbignight.com. And you can find me on Instagram @KKLewin.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Amazing. Thanks so much.
Katherine Lewin:
Thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Before we go, our guest is going to leave a voicemail at the Future Of Food mailbox, just talking to themselves 10 years from now. You have reached The Future Of Food Is You mailbox. Please leave your message after the beep.
Katherine Lewin:
Hello, it's me, your 32-year-old self. My first question is, are you still using audio notes to do all of your communication? Because that's my favorite way to speak right now to my friends. Just send them ramblings and this is reminding me of that. In this moment, I'm finding myself like I have at a lot of points on my Big Night journey, feeling a little bit out of body, feeling so stupidly lucky that this is my job, that I have the opportunity to meet people like Abena. And that Big Night has been the thing that it has been, this small little shop idea that I had has turned into something bigger. And I hope that you in the future, or when you're listening to this, can feel proud of everything that you've accomplished and have gratitude like I do now. But let that gratitude be empowering rather than overwhelming.
I hope that you've spent the last 10 years building the business of your dreams, one that brings joy to more and more people by inspiring them to gather, to make connections over food, and to make every moment at home feel more special. I hope that you have built the team of your dreams as well, and that you have continued to empower them to be their amazing selves and help build this thing alongside of you. And I hope that you've learned how to rest, like really rest your brain and know that when you come back to the thing tomorrow, you're going to be all the better for it, having given yourself a night off. And I hope that Big Night is the biggest it can be. Have a good 10 years. Love you. Bye.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's it for today's show. Do you know someone who you think is the future of food? Tell us about them. Nominate them at the link in our show notes, or leave us a rating and a review and tell me about them in the review. I can't wait to read more about them. Thanks to Kerrygold for sponsoring our show. The Future of Food Is You is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Thanks to the team at CityVox Studios, executive producers, Kerry Diamond and Catherine Baker, and associate producer Jenna Sadhu. Catch you on the future flip.