Kathy Sidell Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You're listening to Radio Cherry Bombe and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe magazine.
Today's guest is Kathy Sidell. Kathy is the founder and owner of Saltie Girl, the fish focused restaurants in Boston and Los Angeles, known for their tinned fish menus. I visited Saltie Girl last year and had a blast and a lot of good fish. Kathy is a seasoned restaurateur with a lot of wisdom to share, so stay tuned.
This episode of Radio Cherry Bombe is supported by OpenTable. We are excited to announce that OpenTable is once again partnering with Cherry Bombe on Sit With Us, our community dinner series highlighting amazing female chefs and restaurateurs in the Cherry Bombe network. Tickets for our next three dinners will be on sale soon. We're coming to Miami, Philadelphia and Washington DC this March. How does it work? You can come solo and sit at a Cherry Bombe community table or bring a friend or two and we will seat you together. Tickets are available exclusively on OpenTable. I hope you all have your OpenTable app on your phones. A portion of the proceeds from each dinner will benefit a local charity chosen by the chef. Learn more about the OpenTable and Cherry Bombe Sit With Us series at cherrybombe.com.
A little housekeeping before we get to Kathy. Thank you to everyone who invested in our community round on Wefunder, which closed last week. We are grateful for your support. We'll be sharing quarterly reports with all of our investors, so be on the lookout for those. Let's talk magazines. If you would like to subscribe to our print magazine and receive all four copies of our 2024 issues. The cutoff date is Friday, March 1st. All subscribers get free shipping, so jump on that. We're finishing the spring issue right now and the cover reveal is coming very soon. Actually, it might be covers plural. Keep an eye on our Instagram feed. As always, a lot of fun stuff going on at Cherry Bombe.
Let's talk with today's guest. Kathy Sidell, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Kathy Sidell:
Thank you. Lovely to be here.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about Saltie Girl. The restaurants are a celebration of seafood with a special emphasis on tinned fish. I ate at the Saltie Girl location in Los Angeles last January, and it really was one of my favorite restaurant meals of the year.
Kathy Sidell:
Thank you so much.
Kerry Diamond:
The first Saltie Girl opened in Boston in 2016. How did the idea for Saltie Girl come about?
Kathy Sidell:
Well, I grew up sailing in New England with my dad and always had this kind of concept in the back of my mind because it's really the food that I'm totally passionate about, seafood, the food of my youth. And those memories with my dad are exceedingly powerful. Eating lobster fresh off of a lobster boat, clamming and making your own spaghetti and clam sauce, eating fried, crispy, fried clams on the way home from a weekend with him all held this power for me. And I always said, okay, I would love to do an oyster bar, but I don't want to do it in the conventional way.
Cut to a trip to Barcelona where, as you know, there's tinned fish everywhere. And I had a space, the Met on Newbury Street, and I had a thousand square feet, which had its own separate entrance. Everyone was leaving their dirty shoes and their backpacks and had become a locker room essentially. And I thought, this is crazy. I'm paying this rent on Newbury Street. How is it that I'm not doing a brilliant concept? In Barcelona, I have this meal at the most magical restaurant called Quimet & Quimet. It's a wine bar, everything's served cold. And the key to this thousand square feet that I had was that you couldn't put a hood up there. So I knew I had to do a cold concept and I thought to myself, I don't want to do sandwiches that will cannibalize the Met. I went through all the iterations in my head.
Kerry Diamond:
Just for the listener, every restaurant has to have a hood.
Kathy Sidell:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
In case you're like why does she need a hood?
Kathy Sidell:
If you're cooking hot food, you need a hood. It was revelatory to see that you could actually turn out beautiful food that was all cold, and most of it was tinned fish, beautifully executed. Every bite was better than the next, and it was my aha moment. I thought, this is it, this is how I'm going to do it differently. And then I went and I researched, as you can imagine, and tasted every tin of fish I could find.
Kerry Diamond:
What was the reaction when you opened?
Kathy Sidell:
Oh, well, first of all, the reaction of my team was not terribly positive. They were all like, "You're doing what? You want to sell a hundred, a hundred plus tinned fish?" And I said, "Look, this stuff is gorgeous. Just hang with me and taste it." And I basically just had them taste all the fish and they became converts after a while. They were like, "Oh, wow, this is really excellent. I can see how we could do this." I also thought, what do I have to lose? This is gorgeous wallpaper and they last seven years. And if it doesn't sell you, I'll take the licks. But I think what was really interesting was people had had this experience with tinned fish very nostalgic. So for Christmas they had tinned fish and I think they suddenly realized this could be more part of my daily life. And we saw slowly but surely the increase in sales to the tune of we probably sell 200-plus a week.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. So first you had to convince your employees, then you had to convince the customers. Did they embrace the tinmed fish part of the menu from the beginning?
Kathy Sidell:
From the beginning, yes. I think it was an experience that certain people who had traveled knew about because they had been to Spain and Portugal. And also, again, I think this was nostalgic food that people really loved, but didn't think of as in the category of something they might eat every day. It certainly is not your Bumblebee, that's for sure.
Kerry Diamond:
No, that's what I grew up on. I was one of those seventies, eighties kids. My complete experience with tinmed fish was Bumblebee.
Kathy Sidell:
Bumblebee, which isn't bad.
Kerry Diamond:
Or StarKist. Did you realize at the time how big a trend tin fish was going to become?
Kathy Sidell:
I think I saw something in terms of the amount of tinned fish that was being sold in Spain and Portugal that resonated with me. So, did I know how it would translate? I don't think you ever know how it's going to translate, but I certainly saw an appreciation for something that I felt with a little education I may be able to share with the public.
Kerry Diamond:
Today, Saltie Girl menus feature more than 100 tinned fish options in addition to fresh fish dishes. Tell everybody how it works when you go to a Saltie Girl. How do you make a tinned fish selection? How has it served to you?
Kathy Sidell:
We have a great book where you can read through and our staff has at this point tasted most everything, so I think they're really the best source to go to and recommend. And I think it depends on where your adventure level is. If you are an adventure seeker, then we would recommend something very different. But I think how you get people to understand that this is not Bumblebee is that you got to give them ventresca tuna the belly. They've never had that before. You have to make sure if you're doing a mackerel that it's in a beautiful oil. Sardines, you have to experience them grilled in the tin. I think that gets people somewhere else. They haven't been thinking like that about tinned fish.
Kerry Diamond:
What's your go-to order at Saltie Girl?
Kathy Sidell:
Drum roll, steak tartare and well done French fries. I know.
Kerry Diamond:
We know steak tartare is not fish, people.
Kathy Sidell:
But always a warm lobster roll.
Kerry Diamond:
What's your go-to tinned fish order? Does it change all the time?
Kathy Sidell:
I get kind of stuck in feeling very loyal to a few things. That Gueyu Mar, that's the tuna neck, is really extraordinarily rich and beautiful and it eats a lot like a piece of Wagyu beef. So, I'm really fond of that. Curioso is making a mackerel with curry and chili, which is excellent. So right now those are my favorites. I always love the Ramon Pena Cockles. They're beautiful hand packed and I love playing with those, like putting garlic sauce on them, making a little pizza with them, a take on a New Haven clam pizza and always ventresca, always ventresca. And Olasagasti makes brilliant selection of different parts of the tuna and you find the one you love and it's hard to go back.
Kerry Diamond:
You do the most beautiful presentation. Can you tell folks how it's served to them?
Kathy Sidell:
Yeah, we serve it on a black slate board with a trio of salts, Bordier butter, pickled peppers. We make a homemade piquillo pepper jam in-house, and then we serve it with this French bread that's decadent.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, let's talk some business stuff. In 2022, you opened Saltie Girl outposts in Los Angeles like we just discussed, and London at almost the same time, which blew my mind when I found that out.
Kathy Sidell:
Blew mine too.
Kerry Diamond:
Why those two locations? Why not something easier for you geographically?
Kathy Sidell:
Well, I think that we came out of the pandemic and people were ready to go. I had been looking in LA for years. Three of my five children live in Los Angeles. My sister and her children live in Los Angeles. My best friends are in Los Angeles. Los Angeles is my second home. So, it was a no-brainer that I was going to do something in Los Angeles. I just wanted to find the right location and I had been looking seriously for years. London was probably four years in the making and we had been approached by a restaurant family in London. They came to Saltie Girl in Boston and fell in love with it and wanted to take it to London and promised international expansion. And I think I got a little ahead of myself and a little eager, to be honest with you.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm guessing the two were not supposed to open at the same time.
Kathy Sidell:
They were not, no. Honestly, it's doable. I did it. I don't think it impacted either one of them the way it could have.
Kerry Diamond:
How's it going in Los Angeles?
Kathy Sidell:
It's been such an extraordinary experience. I never expected this. Almost viral. People in Los Angeles want to have an experience they haven't had and they're very open. And the LA Times has made the 101 that's mind blowing.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell folks what the 101 is.
Kathy Sidell:
The 101 is Bill Addison's list, that was once Jonathan Gold's list of the go-to restaurants in Los Angeles. And it's really, it's an extraordinary honor, particularly given that we came from out of town because they really do champion local restaurants. So, we were just over the moon.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, congratulations.
Kathy Sidell:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
It's such a fun, buzzy spot. It's in West Hollywood. You've got the Tin Fish bar right when you walk in.
Kathy Sidell:
The oyster bar, right.
Kerry Diamond:
The Saltie Girl font and the script and the pink neons. Little Barbie, but that was pre-Barbie.
Kathy Sidell:
Little Barbie was pre-Barbie, yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about London. You closed the London location after less than a year, which as someone who's closed restaurants, I know how heartbreaking that can be. Some folks loved it, some didn't. The FT called Saltie Girl, "Excellent and a wonderfully swishy joint." But the Guardian found the whole experience slapdash.
Kathy Sidell:
Grace Dent. Yeah, it was painful. What we do is not easy and you pour your heart and soul into it and for someone not to see it and start to make fun of the name, and it was just below the belt kind of stuff. And I don't know how much that really resonates with people at the end of the day. If you have an honorable review, that's fair, that's different. But I think Grace Dent had a beef. She had a beef with the chef that we hired. That's what we went to find out. So you never know why these things happen, but it was painful.
Kerry Diamond:
You're a seasoned restaurateur. Why didn't London work?
Kathy Sidell:
Well, London didn't work because we picked the wrong partner. We were not operating the restaurant and we've never been involved in a restaurant. We haven't operated. So we basically licensed the concept, although we were partners, financial partners. And we had no say over how it was run and these businesses are very difficult. And so that was one reason, but I also think tinned fish didn't resonate there the way it did in LA and Boston. I think people really see tinned fish, they can't imagine that people are going to pay a premium for tinned fish when it's something that you really ate during wartime. So, I think to change that mentality was a cosmic shift and we were doing it. We really saw the numbers ticking up in the past several months, but I think it would've taken a good two to three years to change people's habits because the Brits, their habits die hard. They're still going to Scott's, that's where they're eating their seafood. And we were right up the block and I just think what does it take to change these habits? And it takes time. That's what it takes.
Kerry Diamond:
Was it a tough decision to close?
Kathy Sidell:
My partners ultimately made the decision, but because we didn't operate, it wasn't a tough decision at all. I couldn't see what was going on happen and not be able to impart change.
Kerry Diamond:
As a business person, what were your takeaways?
Kathy Sidell:
Be careful when someone says they're in love with you.
Kerry Diamond:
Is that life advice?
Kathy Sidell:
That's life advice. Oh my God, yeah, I think you get seduced a lot in this business. And partners aren't easy in the best of circumstances, as we all know, so let alone a restaurant 6,000 miles apart.
Kerry Diamond:
I was wondering how much time did you spend on planes?
Kathy Sidell:
A lot. A ridiculous amount.
Kerry Diamond:
That had to have been tough.
Kathy Sidell:
It was fine. It was fine. I'm resilient. It was fine. It was an incredible experience. I wouldn't give it up for the world. I understood that yes, they speak English and we speak English, but it's a very different language. So, it was quite a learning curve.
Kerry Diamond:
We'll be right back with today's guest. This one is for the Miami Bombesquad out there. The future of food is you. Our sister podcast is doing a live event in Miami on Friday, March 8th, which happens to be International Women's Day. You can meet podcast host, Abena Anim-Somuah and myself and other folks from Team Cherry Bombe. Get tickets and all the deets at cherrybombe.com. Thank you to Kerrygold, Walmart, and OpenTable for making this event possible. If you are in the Miami area, I would love to see you there.
Kathy, let's talk about your career. You were late to the restaurant world and didn't get started in the industry until you were 47 years old. Previously you'd been working in Hollywood as a producer. What led to the career pivot?
Kathy Sidell:
Two passions in my life, food and film. I went to Columbia Film School in New York City and always knew that I would try to do both. My dad was a very well-known banker who was very generous with the restaurant community. So, I grew up really having the most brilliant chefs in the city cooking dinner for us. My sister opened Stephanie's 30 years ago. And at the time they said to me, "Are you ready to do this?" And I was in the middle of having a great career, made a ton of commercials around the world and produced several documentaries, and I just wasn't ready at the time, but I knew at some point that I would absolutely foray into the business.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, you did?
Kathy Sidell:
I definitely did. I'm so insane about food, so passionate about it. It was undeniable. It's really the truth.
Kerry Diamond:
I want to talk about Hollywood a little bit more though. How were you able to walk away from the film industry?
Kathy Sidell:
That's interesting. I had a business that was actually in Boston, Los Angeles and New York, and I had business partners. And I was getting divorced and my kids were young and I was traveling nonstop. You can imagine. I was shooting Budweiser commercials and Coors Light and I was just all over the map. And I had to plug in and be accountable. And so I worked actually for my sister cooking in the food shop at Stephanie's the year that I got divorced. I did a real pivot and then I would do the occasional video. I did a Nine Inch Nails video and so I would freelance with my favorite people in the world who I'm still exceedingly close with in that business. But I slowly got out of it and then I worked at Stephanie's and I thought, okay, what am I going to do in the food world? This is speaking to me.
Kerry Diamond:
What was your very first restaurant?
Kathy Sidell:
My very first restaurant was in the neighborhood I grew up in and it was called The Metropolitan Club and it was a modern steakhouse. And it was like Welcome Back Cotter in the food world. It was wild.
Kerry Diamond:
I remember Welcome Back Cotter, some people might not. What do you mean by that?
Kathy Sidell:
I mean it was a neighborhood restaurant with a cast of characters that were eccentric and wonderful from the chef to the guests. There hadn't been a restaurant like this in Chestnut Hill. Legal Sea Foods was across the street. Roger Berkowitz said to me, "If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere because this is not an easy clientele." And we were short ordering meals for people, making things that were off menu. We had a rocking bar. The bar was so crazy hot. You couldn't get into the bar at night and the world really changed. In 2008, we opened 2004, 2008-
Kerry Diamond:
The recession.
Kathy Sidell:
The recession happened and people really didn't want to sit in the dining room and they weren't ordering expensive bottles of wine. So when we started it really shifted, but it was a really fun place. 10 years of fun.
Kerry Diamond:
Sounds like fun. Eventually you had your own restaurant group, the Met Restaurant Group, which has morphed into Sidell Hospitality Group, right?
Kathy Sidell:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
At the height of the Met Group, how many restaurants did you have open?
Kathy Sidell:
Seven to eight.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. How are you a different business person today?
Kathy Sidell:
Well, I would say that the first three years in Chestnut Hill was like going to bootcamp at Harvard Business School. I didn't know much. I thought I did. I will say the first night I remember thinking I'm very comfortable in these shoes. I'm very comfortable with the hospitality element, but the intricacies of the business and the personalities and the drama and everything that goes along with owning and operating a restaurant, you can't learn unless you do it. And those three years were really paramount. I think my job shifted over time. I have a much more macro view. I'm running a big company. I'm not getting involved in the small details anymore, and nor am I taking them personally. So if somebody didn't like something, it was just so heartbreaking to me back then. I remember just all the wounds and now look, food's very subjective and you learn to be a little maybe tougher than you need to be, but you learn to be pretty tough in this business.
Kerry Diamond:
Did the film industry prepare you for the hospitality industry?
Kathy Sidell:
Yes, very much so. Producing is not unlike being a restaurateur. Many of the same skills, the budgeting, the managing people, the vision that you have to have for what you're creating is essential. It's funny how in life what you do kind of leads you to the next place. And I feel that certainly producing films and TV commercials took me right there.
Kerry Diamond:
So, you have a memoir that I'm lobbying for you to update.
Kathy Sidell:
I do.
Kerry Diamond:
2012, “How I Met Food.” You said there's an art to feeding people, and the word art, you know this, it's so subjective. What did you mean by art in this case?
Kathy Sidell:
Well, if you define art, it's the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination. You're starting with a white plate and what you put on that white plate, the texture, the color, the composition, the taste is an art form. And whether it's a hamburger or whether it's a creation from Thomas Keller, the ratio of bun to burger. We could get into the semantics of it all, but I've had some burgers where I think this is art. I also think there's an art to studying and understanding what people want to eat, and it's essential for any restaurateur depending on where they are and what the climate is. And food and food trends change on the regular. I think you've got to be keenly aware, and if you're good at that, it is a sort of art form.
Kerry Diamond:
Even though the restaurant industry is legendarily tough, there are so many people who still want to open restaurants. What would be your top three pieces of advice?
Kathy Sidell:
I have so much to say.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, I'm thinking you could write a whole book on the subject, a second book.
Kathy Sidell:
I probably could. Well, of course, I'd say location, location, location. I think it's critical. I think you've got to do your homework and make a checklist. What do you need? Parking, outdoor dining, private dining. What's essential for success for your concept, depending on what the concept is?
Kerry Diamond:
For some young restaurateurs or new restaurateurs or folks without access to capital, they go with what they can afford.
Kathy Sidell:
They do and most of them don't survive because one of the three is you need deep pockets. I don't care whether you're little and just starting out and you go wherever you can and whatever feels affordable, you need to cashflow the business. And that's the reality. At the end of the day, it's a business and you can't do your art unless you put money in the bank and you're paying people. So, you've got to go in well-funded, you really do. And then I would say the right concept at the right time. That's a little elusive because sometimes, as with Saltie Girl, people probably thought, oh, that's ridiculous, tinned fish. And I took a flyer and it worked. And I believe in that. I believe in that. But I think you need to take a look at your competition and you need to understand what people, again, going back to what do people want to eat responding to? Honestly, selling hot lobster rolls in Boston and clam char wasn't that much of a reach.
Kerry Diamond:
Would you dissuade someone today from opening a restaurant?
Kathy Sidell:
I would say a few things. I would say you need a lot of grit. You're cleaning toilets. You're changing toilet paper. You're the electrician. You wear many, many hats. This is not a glamorous business in the least. I'm not saying there aren't some magical moments, certainly there are, and you've got to really appreciate your wins. It's onerous. And so I would warn anyone that you've got to be quite strong and quite resilient. And it's relentless. You lose your life. This is it. You lose your life. Any semblance of a life that you had does not exist anymore. Clock your wins. Clock your wins. It's important.
Kerry Diamond:
As someone who was a restaurateur, I guess I can call myself that, and you are a current restaurateur. When you go into another restaurant's bathroom and they've run out of toilet paper, do you change the toilet paper for them?
Kathy Sidell:
Yes, of course.
Kerry Diamond:
So do I.
Kathy Sidell:
Absolutely.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you do that out of sisterhood with the other restaurants owners?
Kathy Sidell:
Absolutely. No question.
Kerry Diamond:
Me too.
Kathy Sidell:
Don't even think twice.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, we have to talk about your dad.
Kathy Sidell:
Yeah, my dad.
Kerry Diamond:
Jack Sidell. I know he was such a big influence on your life. Your dad was a banking executive and invested in a lot of the city's, being Boston, a lot of Boston's most famous restaurants. Why were restaurants a passion of his?
Kathy Sidell:
He was born with that thing about food. He was insanely passionate about it. His mom was an excellent cook. Although I never met her, I inherited her recipe box, which I've cooked out of back and forth many, many times. Some incredible recipes that we still make, like the cheesecake and popovers and stuff like that. But my dad grew up really with great food. I actually think the woman could cook, and he had a discerning palette, and it mattered to him. It mattered to him more than anything else, truly more than anything else. He was a lender and he lent to a lot of small businesses and he wanted to see people do well. So, he combined his passion for food with small business and championed a lot of people.
Kerry Diamond:
You told the Boston Globe in your dad's obituary that he was crusty, tough, and really charming. Tell us what you learned from your dad.
Kathy Sidell:
All true. He had huge expectations. What I learned unwittingly is that he passed on the passion for food to me, no doubt. I think he wanted to support entrepreneurs. I think he felt if somebody had a viable business, he wanted to be able to help them see their vision. In that, he really understood the food business. So he would take somebody enormously talented and teach them how to read a P&L and show them the side of the business they didn't otherwise really understand. And he'd really, he'd look at the numbers weekly, you can imagine, and really get people into this formula that he thought was, I still remember, you've got to have a 30% food cost. You've got to have... I still remember the numbers. I wish I had the sheet of paper, but he schooled everyone on how to be successful in the restaurant business.
He was also a marketing genius. He was a marketing genius. And I must say, given my background, again, you look at the things in your past and how they play into your future. But I too was making commercials and understood how to sell things on a different level. And I do think in this day and age, marketing, branding is really essential to what you do and the attention to detail is everything. And my dad gave me that very powerfully. So that may be, other than the fact that I adore food and that comes from him, that may be his biggest gift.
Kerry Diamond:
Interesting that someone who is mainly a finance guy understood that about marketing.
Kathy Sidell:
Really creative.
Kerry Diamond:
And storytelling.
Kathy Sidell:
Storytelling, all about storytelling. He got it, man.
Kerry Diamond:
I've always been fascinated by the Boston and Cambridge restaurant scene because it seemed more hospitable to women. You could tell me if that was true or not, but it seemed more hospitable to female talent at a time when the industry was so enthralled with male chefs. I'm sure you know all these people. Lydia Shire, Jody Adams, Barbara Lynch, Anna Sortun, Tiffani Faison, Karen Akunowicz, Kristen Kish. What do you attribute that to? And am I right? Was it a place hospitable to female talent?
Kathy Sidell:
I think you'd have to ask each one of them individually because I am sure that it wasn't easy, and each one of them have very different stories. And so I couldn't speak to the experience globally as a woman. I do know that I think talent was at the forefront. And they were every bit as talented, if not more talented than the male chefs. And they rose because of that. They also had the grit and they had the strength to work those hours and put in the time and endure whatever came their way. And trust me, I've heard many, many stories. They have their stories, they should tell them. Lydia's a genius, an absolute genius. I still crave some of Lydia's food. At Biba, she used to do this pork chop with the fat back still on it. Literally one of my food fantasies ongoing. That must've been 20 years ago. So, she also did a really incredible corn pancake with caviar that's exceptional. She's just a genius. She's a genius with food, very special person.
Kerry Diamond:
How was the scene for female restaurateurs?
Kathy Sidell:
Well, I think they had to come up through the ranks. Lydia worked with Jasper, if I'm correct. Barbara worked with Todd, I believe. Tiffani's one of my best friends. So Tiffani has her own story to tell, but she worked for... A lot of people, worked for Todd English. But in terms of having their own restaurants, I think it was very different than the guys that were offered their own restaurants. I think financing was probably more available to the men where women had to go into 50/50 partnerships and they didn't really own the lion's share of their business. So, I think it took a lot longer to really have what they wanted.
Kerry Diamond:
What was your experience as a restaurateur? Did you have it a little easier maybe because of your dad?
Kathy Sidell:
Well, Todd English had FIGs in the space that I went into and my dad... Well, Todd at the time had a bunch of investors in different FIGs, and so he had to close that FIGs. And my dad was involved in the financing, and he finally said to me, "Okay, are you ready to do a restaurant? Because FIGs is going out?" And I said, "Well, only if I can get the corner," because I have a big thing on having corners. And he said, "No problem. I'll get you the corner." A week later, he had the corner. I'm like, "What am I going to do? What? I'm going into the restaurant business? This is insane."
He really pushed me. I really think it was a way to be close to him for me. We had a language that I could finally speak that felt good, and I felt seen in a way I didn't before. And it was really a wonderful time in our relationship, to be honest. So yeah, incredible. So that was magical and it was a real gift. That being said, we had to bootstrap it. That's it. Plain and simple, bootstrap it, and I feel like we've done that for a long time.
Kerry Diamond:
Was your dad friends with Julia Child?
Kathy Sidell:
My dad was not friends with Julia Child, but I did have a lunch with Julia Child. My mom, at an auction, silent auction, won lunch for my sister and myself with Julia and mom brought another friend. And we ate at Hamersley's in Boston. And Gordon was known, very well known for his chicken. And my mother's friend, Ani, was in the middle of eating this gorgeous butter laden chicken, and she started to talk about her weight. And Julia put her finger up and wagged her finger in her face and said, "Don't you ever talk about your weight when you're eating beautiful food." And I use that a lot. It was like this moment where I thought can we separate women's issues around weight with food? That's a whole other conversation that isn't talked about enough, but it was really a brilliant moment. She was lovely and gracious and fun.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you remember what you talked about?
Kathy Sidell:
I think the industry. Talked a lot about the industry, a lot about restaurants in the city, a lot about food.
Kerry Diamond:
Kathy, what's next for you?
Kathy Sidell:
I have a few things on the agenda. One is always making the restaurants as good as they can be. So that's a continuum, obviously. First priority is making sure the food and the menus are what they need to be and the quality of the food isn't compromised. I am renovating Saltie Girl in Boston as we speak, which is super exciting.
Kerry Diamond:
So, is it closed?
Kathy Sidell:
It will be, yeah. It will be in the next couple of weeks. OG Saltie Girl will be open during the renovation, which is great, so people can come there. But we moved into that space, which was the Met, the day we reopened from the pandemic. And I literally painted it pink and open the doors and I had to redo it, had to make it feel like a Saltie Girl, and it's awesome.
Kerry Diamond:
Who do you admire in the industry today and why?
Kathy Sidell:
This is where I love Instagram. So two people that I love. I love Adeena Sussman and I love David Liebowitz. And I love them partly they're excellent storytellers, and I really love people that write about food. And when you are watching them, you feel transported. I'm in the souk having coffee. I'm in the Paris market with David Liebowitz touching his whatever he's curating that day or whatever dinner he's making. It's very hard to do it in a vacuum, so you need to really be passionate about what you're doing. And I think they're both incredibly human, reveal a lot about their lives, which I think is unusual, and I think they're really generous.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you have a motto or mantra?
Kathy Sidell:
Yes is the operative word. That's the mantra. It's called having the H in hospitality. If you have to say no, you have to find a way to say yes when you're saying no. Nothing is too much. We're in the service business and you have to bend backwards to make the experience of give the customer what they want.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you apply that to other areas of your life? You're a mom of five.
Kathy Sidell:
Yeah, I think generosity is probably on the top five list.
Kerry Diamond:
How do you take care of yourself mentally and physically today if you do? Sometimes we don't do enough of that.
Kathy Sidell:
I do. I have to be mindful, particularly around food and eating. And I go through periods certainly where I'm heavier than others, but I'm very aware of how it makes me feel, particularly at my age, at 66. So, I have just become a lot more mindful about the choices that I'm making and it's really worked. I have a fabulous therapist who I adore and I just started seeing again. It's helped me enormously. I have an aging mom who's 90, who's not doing great, and restaurants closing and opening, and a cast of characters that work for me that are quite complex. And it really helps to have that time to focus on what I'm thinking and feeling and how to address it.
Kerry Diamond:
What is one piece of advice that you wish someone had told you at some point along the way?
Kathy Sidell:
Don't sweat the small stuff and don't take things so personally. And I think at the beginning when you're starting out, you want everything, particularly if you're a perfectionist, you want everything to be perfect, like every french fry to be crisp. And when it's not, you're like, how did I disappoint that person? Because feeding people is all about getting instantaneous feedback and wanting to please. And so learning that you can't make everybody happy all the time. I think Tiffani said this to me, at some point she said, "Kathy, you cannot be everything to everyone. Stop. Just stop." It was a great piece of advice.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's do a speed round. Learn a little bit more about you. Beverage you start the day with.
Kathy Sidell:
Decaf latte.
Kerry Diamond:
Decaf. No caffeine for you?
Kathy Sidell:
It's a very bad drug for me.
Kerry Diamond:
A cookbook or food memoir you'd recommend.
Kathy Sidell:
Nigel Slater, “A Cook's Book.” Diana Henry, “How to Eat a Peach.”
Kerry Diamond:
Best food movie. Curious what you'd say for this one.
Kathy Sidell:
“Big Night,” man. Again and again and I'm a big Tucci fan.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite kitchen tool.
Kathy Sidell:
Copper pots from Dehillerin. Been collecting them for years.
Kerry Diamond:
How do you keep a copper pot clean?
Kathy Sidell:
Copper polish.
Kerry Diamond:
I don't know.
Kathy Sidell:
You've got to get-
Kerry Diamond:
I've never cooked in a copper pot.
Kathy Sidell:
Oh my God, it's a game changer.
Kerry Diamond:
One thing that's always in your fridge.
Kathy Sidell:
Great cheese, great selection of cheese.
Kerry Diamond:
What are you streaming right now?
Kathy Sidell:
“Lessons in Chemistry.”
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite childhood food.
Kathy Sidell:
Shrimp scampi.
Kerry Diamond:
Snack food of choice?
Kathy Sidell:
Nuts. Love them.
Kerry Diamond:
Footwear of choice in the kitchen?
Kathy Sidell:
Barefoot.
Kerry Diamond:
Really?
Kathy Sidell:
Yes, I know. Yeah, barefoot.
Kerry Diamond:
Not worried about dropping things on those little toes.
Kathy Sidell:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
If you had to be stuck on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Kathy Sidell:
Aside from Marcella Hazan, Dominique Crenn, Gabriel Camara, who I would learn so much from, it would be Tiffani Faison because we cook together and we have so much fun. It's so inventive and magical. And I would throw my son into the mix, who is the pastry chef at Saltie Girl LA and I don't think I'd want to leave the island.
Kerry Diamond:
You're basically bringing a whole army to that island.
Kathy Sidell:
I'm bringing my troops who are brilliant in the kitchen. Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, Kathy, thank you so much. I'm so glad, it took a year for us to sit down, but I'm so glad we finally found the time to do it.
Kathy Sidell:
Thank you so much. It was really a treat.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazan is the studio engineer for Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center. Our producer is Catherine Baker, our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu, and our editorial assistant is Londyn Crenshaw. Thanks for listening, everybody. You are the Bombe.