Amelia Morán Ceja x Maryam Ahmed Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. We have one last live talk from Jubilee Wine Country to share with you. It's Amelia Morán Ceja, the trailblazing president and CEO of Ceja Vineyards, interviewed by Maryam Ahmed, the founder of Maryam & Company. Both women have been agents of change and forces for good in the wine world. Jubilee Wine Country took place last October at the beautiful Solage Napa Valley Resort in Calistoga, California. Thank you to the sponsors of Jubilee Wine Country, Kerrygold, San Pellegrino, California Grown, California Walnuts, and California Prunes. And thank you to all the wine country winemakers who joined us.
I hope you've enjoyed our Jubilee Wine Country talks over the past few weeks. If you missed any of them, be sure to go back and listen to our episodes with Dominique Crenn, Tanya Holland, Robin McBride, Jeni Britton, and Jen Pelka. If you'd like to join us for this year's Jubilee conference, it's taking place in New York City at the Glasshouse on Saturday, April 12th. As some of you know, we've had the most amazing speakers at Jubilee over the years, from Martha Stewart to Nigella Lawson and Padma Lakshmi. We can't wait to share this year's lineup with you. For tickets and more information, head to cherrybombe.com. If you are a Bombsquad member, be sure to check your inbox for a link to special member pricing. Radio Cherry Bombe will be back next week for a brand new season. We've got new guests and we've even got a brand new theme song. And now, Amelia and Maryam in conversation.
Maryam Ahmed:
Hi, everybody. It's nice to see you all. Wow, congratulations Cherry Bombe. Thank you for bringing your lens of the food and beverage space to Napa and Sonoma. It's very special to have you here representing everyone in the room from Napa and Sonoma, just making a broad statement on behalf of everybody. Really briefly, I am a Napa based consultant, and my company creates educational experiences in food and beverage, for both food and beverage companies as well as private sector companies looking to connect more intentionally with food and beverage. And really at the heart of that, the joy from the work, which I think is important on a day like today to acknowledge, comes from the opportunity to help people challenge the lens that they look through when it comes to food and beverage and what that includes, besides simply a product or simply a one-off experience, but that long-term connection to where they are, what they're eating or what they're drinking. It's very important work to me and I'm honored to do it.
And it brought me here to Cherry Bombe, which was on my board this year. I feel like you can say that. With me is actually just one of my most favorite people in Napa Valley who I've had the chance to interview before but never on stage. Amelia, who is a champion of all of us here, and especially I should say women of color in this industry and in these valleys. Her bio was pointed out but I'm just going to point out a couple stats real quick before we jump into the first question. The first is that Amelia was the first ever Mexican-American woman to be elected president of a winery, in 1999, okay. Ceja Vineyards is a family business. I think you hear that term a lot but I'm going to emphasize it is a family business. Amelia coexists with her family in that business successfully, her brother-in-law is a winemaker, something near and dear to me, and I think a lot of people that are especially on the agricultural side of this business that are here today. Amelia in 2016 received the Dolores Huerta Farmworker Justice Award for her advocacy of worker protection when it comes to safely using pesticides, a voice that isn't given a lot of the time. Thank you for the work that you've done.
Okay, so Amelia and I did chat before this and one of the things that came up between the two of us is of course our love of wine, but I think really our passion for food. We are both from cultures that food really actually the central part of the table and not necessarily wine. However, it's the beverage we've chosen to champion. And since the beginning, Amelia of Ceja Vineyards, you've brought your Mexican heritage to the table, and I'm just going to read something for everybody before I ask Amelia the question, which is in 2003 you were already challenging the narrative of what was appropriate to pair with wine, a narrative that was dominated by Euro centric dishes and voices. And the SF Chronicle in 2003 published an article, it was the first article written about wine and Mexican cuisine, and it opens like this. “Shrimp are marinating in cayenne and paprika, Serrano chilies are going under the knife for the sake of guacamole. Longaniza sausage is giving up its fat in a frying pan. A feast of Mexican home cooking is in the works in the Ceja family's kitchen, and there's not a margarita nor Dos Equis in sight.” Amelia, why was bringing Mexican cuisine and wine together so important to you, and what were the barriers that existed when you started that?
Amelia Ceja:
Well, I was cooking since I was about one year-old alongside my maternal grandmother in Mexico. I just fell in love with flavors and just having those aromas emanating from my grandmother's casuelas is something so magical. I wanted everyone who loves food, and for me specifically Mexican cuisine is, well, one of my favorites, that I wanted them to have that experience of enjoying wine with it. And the proof is in the pudding. I was able to actually show others that they wrote about it and how magical it is to have for example, chilaquiles with a red blend for breakfast. Why not? But also, no one was speaking about other cuisine that northern European with wine. And it's really quite easy to pair wine with very rich sauces, which I love French food, I love Italian food, I love Greek cuisine, I love Spanish cuisine, but how about Mexican? How about Latin American? How about Asian, Mexasian? Because now I fuse, I am madly in love with Mexican and Asian cuisine, which I'm a chef as well. Being introduced to other ingredients has really expanded my passion and love for world cuisine.
Maryam Ahmed:
Were people open to this concept of Mexican cuisine and wine in 2003, besides that beautiful article that was written?
Amelia Ceja:
Absolutely not. Everyone thought I was crazy, but I don't really care what people think of me. And the wine industry, there is resistance, resistance to change. It's dipped in traditions for millennia. And we really need to shake it up because in order to grow the number of consumers, we need to have a nuestra casa es su casa environment where everyone feels welcome regardless whether someone is a novice or a master som, there's room at the table for wine, regardless of what the menu is. And that's what I set out to do.
Maryam Ahmed:
Well said. It's interesting that that concept was documented in 2003, but here we are in 2024, still having this conversation about the expansion required of how wine interacts with food and who that invites in to the conversation. And the piece that I wanted to add to this conversation was Amelia's work and my work, they overlap, but we are decades apart in the work that we're doing. And in 2021, I filmed a show with some TV called “Sparklers,” and the concept of the show was a competition cooking show for amateur chefs that were wine professionals. And the task was to create a dish and pair it with a sparkling wine. And you either win points or you lose points. You can watch the show, no spoilers what it was about. In one of the episodes, harmless, harmless thing, but all of the dishes we were asked to recreate were European. Not a single dish was from outside the country of Europe. And one of the dishes was cassoulet. This was a challenge that we had. My father is from Pakistan, he is a devout Muslim. It's bad enough I'm already on a wine show. And they say, "Maryam, can you please cook cassoulet?"
I worked for the Culinary Institute of America for a number of years. I'm comfortable recreating a dish. I was just put in this position of how important is doing this their way versus how important is how I will feel after I've done it their way? Luckily for me, I had a castmate who was one of my dear friends, George Walker, who was on that episode with me, our first episode of the show together, which that episode got us nominated for a James Beard Award in 2022. I'm very proud of this. But I said to him, "We've filmed six episodes, it would be really great if we had the opportunity to talk about why we like to cook."
And this is unscripted, "Are you open to approaching cassoulet with Indian and Pakistani techniques, creating flavor with spices, onions and fat, that might replace the feeling, texture and taste of pork, while we talk about who the hell taught us how to cook and why how we cook matters to us?"
And he of course said yes because we're fricken best friends. And that was the outcome. And when we were talking I thought, fast forward 20 years and we're still working through this expansive conversation, especially on the wine side, about where wine belongs and what wine belongs with. I think Amelia, being the first, it's always important to know there are people coming after you and there are people that have gone before you that are beating the same drum and that are convinced we can accomplish this if we all keep trying. It was just my add. I do think there's an expanded conversation happening, not as quickly 20 years, jeez, Louise. Wish it was happening faster. That article came out in 2003 but you were really committed and already had been working on Ceja for a number of years. Can you just paint a picture of the timeline for everyone of Ceja Vineyards?
Amelia Ceja:
Yes. I'm an immigrant from Mexico. In 1965, there was a major immigration reform under Lyndon Johnson, where anyone that had a green card in this country was able to bring their family, as long as he, she could prove that financially could support the family. It only took four weeks for me ... Well, four or five weeks for me to get my green card while I was still in Mexico. And I arrived in Napa in 1967, I met my future partners, they had just arrived here from Michoacan, I'm from Jalisco, the Highlands of Jalisco. And we met in Oakville picking grapes, and we didn't speak English. I told my dad I was going to have a vineyard of my own someday. And he said, "Of course, Mijita."
Fast forward to 1980 after college, I married that young boy I had met picking grapes. We started looking for land and we bought our first property. And of course everyone thought we were crazy for the first time, because we didn't have any money. But that didn't deter us. We bought our first property in '83 in Carneros, in southernmost part of Napa. We kept buying more land, by the mid 90s we already had the acreage that we currently own and we sold all of our grapes but we were ready to launch our brand. I gave up my job in the wine industry in 1999. Every time I tried to quit, I was offered more autonomy, and I knew I would have to work harder than I ever did, 24/7. And in a family-owned business, sometimes I knew that I would get a lot of resistance because family businesses are more challenging.
I finally did, and that's when I was elected president in 1999. And yes, I became the first ever elected Mexican-American woman president of a winery in the world. Well, there's not a lot of women in the wine industry, even less Latina women. I take that very seriously. But I really wanted to prove and to show others that it doesn't matter where you begin, what matters is what you do from that point on. Our entire family, we really wanted to show the contribution of the Mexican labor force, because without them we wouldn't be making these amazing wines, nor have food on the table. And wine country is so incredibly rich because of all of these amazing wines that are being produced now.
Maryam Ahmed:
Okay, so clearly from the beginning you had a laser focus on how to build a brand, which is actually a really great place when it comes to building a brand to start from. But as you mentioned, the wine industry is resistant to change, as many things run by men are. You were determined to build your brand your way. I think everyone can tell by now that it's not the way everyone else was doing it. What was the North Star? Why was that so important to start the brand and run the brand differently than everyone else? And what kept you doing it that way?
Amelia Ceja:
Well, it's a lot easier to build a brand in the wine industry, especially in the late 90s, early 2000s, if you send your wines to the influencers of the time, like the Wine Advocate or Wine Spectator. I mean the Wine Dictator. And to be honest, my winemaker brother-in-law, Armando, nor I, like the wines that are rated very high by either one of them. And we said, "Why would we ever want to do that? We work so hard to consistently produce this amazing grape source. We need to make the style of wines that we love because we can sell what we love, not what Robert Parker or anyone else loves."
And so we decided to go against the grain totally. All the wineries were going this way, following each other. And we turned around and went that way. Number one, by making wines that marry well with all the food that we love. Yes, and I am classically trained as a chef, so I do love cassoulet. I love food, period. But for me, it was very important to be able to prepare the dishes that I did as a child from all the local ingredients from my village. I paired them with wine. We felt so strong that as long there is a cavera, as long as the wine is balanced, meaning with raising acidity because that is key to pairing food with wine. And food that might even have a spice component and also moderate alcohol. The high-alcoholic big boys with steroid style of wines don't pair well with anything. Yes, if you like that style, you should keep drinking it. Don't listen to anyone except your palate. But we don't. We decided, "Okay, so we're going to harvest our grapes at lower Brix. We want to capture the freshness of the fruit rather than the raisiny, pruney characteristics."
And in Mexican cuisine, we literally squeeze a few drops of lime to practically everything, to brighten the flavors and to bring everything together. You also need that acidity present in the wine to cut through the spice component. We were able to prove that. And guess what, I still remember when that article came out, we had just donated a live lot for the Land Trust that actually sold twice. The Duncan Family of Silver Oak bought one of those lots and I was told, "Can you donate us a second one the same, in the Chappellay family?"
And I had just paid it maybe a couple of weeks before when the article came out on May 1st, 2003, and they immediately contacted me and told me, "Why didn't we think of that?"
And a lot of the times it's ignorance, and not based on actual data. Because the data of the census, the 2000 census, told us that there was almost a country within a country. What was it, 38 million Hispanics, yet the wine industry had totally ignored them for one reason. And it was shocking to me to learn it. Someone very famous in Napa, "Amelia, Amelia, Amelia, people of color don't have discretionary income for a luxury product."
Oh, my God. I almost literally ... I couldn't believe it but I thought to myself, "Well, I'll prove you ... And I will definitely get all of these people that are just waiting to be invited in to enjoy a beverage that brings people together paired with their favorite food, not the one that I'm going to be dictating."
And so we have done that.
Maryam Ahmed:
Cool. Yes. That's from the beginning, it's part of the DNA. Now, Ceja Vineyards is still thriving and there's pieces of your North Star ingrained in how the day-to-day business of Ceja is run, and one in particular that I think is really amazing. And so you mentioned the historical exclusion of communities in wine experiences and wine careers and wine stories, and your approach to that, especially when it comes to hospitality, I think you have something really cool going on at the vineyard. Can you tell people a little bit about what the experience at Ceja looks like?
Amelia Ceja:
Yes. Well, everyone that walks through the door of our tasting room, if we're not on hugging terms when they leave, we haven't done a great job. It's in our bylaws and in our handbook that every single person that works at Ceja must be bilingual. You can't dictate what language, it could be any language, but it just adds another dimension. And that right away, all of our guests feel so much more welcome. And obviously we prefer Spanish but we've had one of our team members who spoke African, all sorts of ... We don't care. But bilingual is very, very important. Plus, when one goes to a tasting room, it's so important to also have those that pour the wines look like us. And unfortunately in wine country, there's still so much work to be done because that is not the case. Even though we are tiny, we definitely communicate what we're doing to others. And increasingly I do see changes, but it's really incremental over a long period of time.
Maryam Ahmed:
Definitely. I think what you're doing is part of that change quite obviously. I think it's so amazing to get a bunch of female founders together and to talk about how badass we are. And it's super easy when you're in a group full of them, but I know that while choosing this path was in your heart and you weren't going to stray from it, that there were times of doubt. You're choosing the harder path, not the easier path. How did you overcome it? Does anyone not have doubt in this room? I want to get your contact information. How did you manage the doubt that came with going the different way?
Amelia Ceja:
Well, often I would wake up in the middle of the night with sweats, "Am I doing the right thing?"
It's a harder path to follow. But I would totally talk myself out of those doubts because I would say instinctually, "What legacy does Ceja Vineyards want to live? What exactly do I want people, wine consumers to feel when they come to visit Ceja Vineyards?" And literally ... Because your mind can play such games, and I would just literally make myself snap out of it because I said, "I feel it instinctually, so it must be the right path to take." And that's hard to do. It's so, so hard because my husband would say, "Oh, just go back to sleep." I said, "No, but I have this great idea."
And just stay true to your instincts because they're always right, especially if you feel them in your gut. Don't ever diverge from your ideas. Our wines have been served at the White House a few times, so that ... Yes. It's a wonderful goal and I can actually possibly help you.
Maryam Ahmed:
Yes, I love that. Amelia also shared that she'll go on a walk or have a glass of wine to overcome the doubt, we have that in common. I have asked you a lot of questions. Do you have a question?
Amelia Ceja:
Yes.
Maryam Ahmed:
Told me she had a question for me.
Amelia Ceja:
I mean, you are engaged in so many aspects within the food and wine industry, both of us as women of color, really engaged in our community and doing so much. You have so much on your plate. How do you stay focused but still outside the box?
Maryam Ahmed:
Well, I would say when I was listening to you talk about doubt, I was thinking one of the things that I do, and there are women in this room who are on this call list, who I call to say, "Oh, my God. I must be crazy."
And then they're the ones that reflect back to me like, "No, no, no, no. You're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing, and please keep going."
And that's so important. And those people also reflect a lot of my identity. I think specifically as someone who's first generation with complex relationships to immigrant parents and all these things that make us us, I think it's what keeps me out of the box. And I think that could be said for anybody in this room. And I think having people that help me lean into it is what helps me stay going. Keep going, I should say. And then the other thing that helps keep me going and keeps me moving out of the box is actually the day-to-day experiences that I get to have in food and beverage, especially when I get to see someone interact with wine or challenge themselves personally because of the way they've made a discovery about themselves through wine and food, that is like, "Oh, my God. I could do this for the rest of my life if just 10 more people have this experience."
And that's been true my whole career. And it's just my little dopamine hit. Every time I'm like, "Oh, I have to stop this, cashing my chips. I'm going to just go work somewhere and clock in and out."
I have this experience that's like, "Here's the funding for that project that you asked for more money for."
Or here's someone who calls you and says, "I met you three years ago. I went to a program that you offered, and I wanted to tell you specifically the impact it's had on me since then."
That kind of call, one of those in your lifetime will tell you you're doing right the hell what you're supposed to be doing, immediately assuring. And I think those moments are the keep-you-going moments. And then also the opportunity for me, because I can't help it to ask myself how could I do it again and how could I do it different or better? That's the way I'm hardwired a little bit, I think. And people like you, seeing what you've done and seeing people like Tanya and just people who are not only doing what they're doing but making sure you're doing what you're doing. That's what keeps me going. Thank you for the question, and I love you so much, oh, my God. Okay, last question. Well, we talked a lot about the past. We talked a lot about your imprint on I don't think just Napa and Sonoma Valleys, but obviously huge imprint on Napa and Sonoma. If you're the first at something or of something and you've come this far, what's next? What does next look like for you?
Amelia Ceja:
I want to inspire others to do something that they're passionate about and that feels outside of your comfort zone. Right now, close your eyes and think of a moment that you felt that it was totally outside of your comfort zone. You had an idea but you talked yourself out of following that idea. You have to follow that idea, because no one's going to do it for you. And it is you, you are the author of your own story. It's in your hand. I did that and it was ... My grandmother really inspired me. She never went to school one day in her life, but she is the most emotionally intelligent human being I've ever met. When I left Mexico as 12 year-old, she told me, "Mija, doesn't matter what you do. "No importa lo que hagas. Podrías ser el barrendero o el presidente, pero tienes que ser el mejor barrendero y el mejor presidente."
Basically she said, "You could be ... It doesn't matter what you do. You could be the street sweeper or the president, but you have to be the best street sweeper and the best president."
And I have taken that very, very seriously and I will never give up. But what is in store? I really want the world to know more of the history of wine in Mexico. The oldest winery in the Americas is not in the United States or Argentina or Chile, it's actually in Mexico, it was founded in 1597. But what the king giveth, it also taketh away. And thus, we had prohibition for a very long time. I want really people, wine-loving consumers to really know the history of wine in the Americas. And it really does start in Mexico. But I also want to ... I care very deeply about health, specifically diabetes and all of the chronic health issues. And I have a minor in nutrition as well. I went to UC San Diego in Southern California, but I also have a minor in nutrition. And I really want to start ... I haven't said it to anyone ...
Maryam Ahmed:
Well, you better say it now because you already said so.
Amelia Ceja:
But I do, it's actually comer es vivir. Eating is living, and it's to teach. We already have a YouTube channel at Ceja Vineyards but this is going to be mine. And it's literally to eat, to live for health. And that is definitely a very huge goal. And I already have ... It was still available. It's comer es vivir, it's coming up.
Maryam Ahmed:
You said it here. Congrats, it's going to happen. If anyone can do it, Amelia, it's you. And I think you've done it now in the presence of Jen, and now she's going to be in the White House and all these things are going to happen. And for anyone who is still worried about, "Oh, what's the three things I need to write down that Jen assigned?"
You had that moment where you had your eyes closed and you're thinking of that one thing that still just is going like this on your gut or on your mind or on your heart. And that could be one to write on the list that Jen encouraged you to create, and maybe you could share it like Amelia did just now. Thank you all so much, and thank you so much for everything, for everything.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. I would love for you to subscribe to Radio Cherry Bombe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and leave a rating and a review. Anyone you want to hear on an upcoming episode? Let me know. Our theme song is by the band, Tralala. Joseph Hazan is a studio engineer for Newsstand Studios. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Jenna Sadhu, and our editorial coordinator is Sophie Kies. Thanks for listening, everybody. You are the Bombe.