Anna Gass and Maya-Camille Broussard Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe magazine.
In the first part of today's show, we are talking about snacks, and Italian snacks, in particular, with chef and recipe developer Anna Francese Gass. Anna's new cookbook, “Italian Snacking: Sweet and Savory Recipes for Every Hour of the Day,”was recently released and it's like an Italian vacation in book form. If you've never been to Italy, this might be the next best thing. It seemed like a lot of people were in Italy for summer vacation last year based on my Instagram viewing. I would like to be one of those people. Maybe this summer. Anyway, Anna and I cover a lot of ground from her family ties to Italy to meat doughnuts. Yes, that is a thing. Stay tuned for my chat with Anna.
Later we're flashing back to last year's Cherry Bombe Jubilee, with an inspiring and heartfelt talk from baker and author, Maya-Camille Broussard. Maya is the force behind the Chicago Bakery, Justice of the Pies and the cookbook of the same name. If you're in Chicago and haven't visited, please put it on your list of places to check out. Maya-Camille was also featured on the Netflix show “Bake Squad,” and she's an advocate for those with hearing loss. Her talk was a very special Jubilee moment.
Speaking of Jubilee, this year's is taking place on Saturday, April 20th in New York City and I can't wait to see you there. Visit cherrybombe.com for the full schedule, tickets, and more. Thank you to Kerrygold, Wegmans, San Pellegrino and Johnnie Walker Blended Scotch Whiskey for supporting this year's Jubilee.
Johnnie Walker is also supporting today's episode. Johnnie Walker is the world's number one Scotch whiskey brand and has been responsible for lots of happy hours and convivial moments for more than 200 years. That tradition continues today in Edinburgh where Dr. Emma Walker, Johnnie Walker's first female master blender, leads a passionate team of whiskey makers. I've had the pleasure of interviewing Emma, and she is so dedicated to her craft. I know some of you love having a well-stocked liquor cabinet or bar cart at home. So two options to consider. First Johnnie Walker Black Label. Its nose, as Emma would say, features the bold scent of fruit with a touch of sweet vanilla. Your tongue will pick up creamy toffee, sweet fruit and spice, followed by a warming smoky finish. If you want to experience the pinnacle in Scotch making, there's Johnnie Walker Blue Label. Its nose features waves of spice that give way to vanilla and honey. You'll experience notes that build from caramel to hazelnut to dark chocolate, then a luxuriously long warming signature smoky finish. You can learn more about Johnnie Walker Blended Scotch Whiskey at jonniewalker.com. You'll find a deep dive into the brand's history and legacy, cocktail recipes, and info on the Johnnie Walker Princes Street Brand and Tasting Room Experience in Edinburgh. I'm putting that place on my bucket list right now. Of course, always drink responsibly.
Now let's chat with today's guest. Anna Francese Gass, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Thank you so much for having me.
Kerry Diamond:
Congratulations on this beautiful book. Long time in the works.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Yeah, yeah, I've been working on it for a few years. I mean, anyone that wrote a cookbook will tell you, you can't pull them out once a year. They do take a little bit of time.
Kerry Diamond:
It's amazing how far in advance folks start them, which makes it doubly amazing when a book comes out like yours and it's so perfect for the moment that we're living in.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Yeah, I mean, I think I did definitely catch a trend. I just kind of noticed a lot of snacking books, but they were all on the sweet side like Yossy. I mean, there were just a lot of really fun-
Kerry Diamond:
Jessie Sheehan's book.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Yes. A lot of sweet, quick desserts, which we all love in this country. And then people were kind of jumping on that trend. They wanted to have something quick and fast. I just started thinking about it and I was like, "Wait a minute. This is something that's actually ingrained in Italian culture." But we don't really talk about it here. People go to Italy and they really discuss how amazing it was and the food and how they were eating and all these moments, but I don't think anyone really conceptualized why. And I thought, "This could be a fun moment," and the minute I said the word snack to my amazing agent, Sarah, she's like, "hashtag snacks. Everybody's into it." She's like, "I love this concept." Luckily, the trend has continued. We now have girl dinner. We have a whole bunch of new snack books cropping up. So, yes, I'm definitely trendy. Please tell my daughters. They might not believe you. But yes, I am hip, cool, all the things, with this book and I'm excited about it.
Kerry Diamond:
“Italian Snacking,” timeless.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Yeah. I mean, it's really funny. I heard this very funny anecdote, I don't know if it's true, but they did a poll of all the countries and they said, "What is your favorite cuisine? International cuisine?" Every single country in the world said Italy. Italian food was number one. So then they asked Italians and they said, "Italy."
Kerry Diamond:
Not surprised. Not surprised. But I do think it's timeless, which is why I loved going through this book so much. I was like, "Oh, this book's going to be around for a long time, I feel like."
Anna Franchese Gass:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
For years to come. And the cover's gorgeous.
Anna Franchese Gass:
I mean, you know. You've done a beautiful cookbook. Cookbooks are a village. They really are. Yes, my name is on the cover and it's my idea, and I came up with the recipes, but from the beginning you have a recipe tester. I had two fantastic ones. And then you move on to print. And then you move on to that beautiful cover shoot where you're just spending 10 days photographing all the stuff and picking a cover.
Kerry Diamond:
And you don't mean 10 days trying to get something that's the cover. 10 days to photograph the whole entire book.
Anna Franchese Gass:
So it's cover day, but then there's also another nine days where you're just kind of making this beautiful book come together visually because we eat with our eyes first. We read, everything's with our eyes. I worked with Linda Zhao, who is so amazing. And then this beautiful woman, Maeve Sheridan, who has a beautiful studio. And then I had a team, and Greg Lofts, who's just this fabulous stylist. I really owe it all to them. I wish I could take credit. But it was a collaborative effort. I mean, I'm definitely a bossy lady, but everyone had a say and we really, I think, came up with something beautiful.
Kerry Diamond:
Light is such a factor in all the photos. It's almost like your co-author.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
So many of the photos capture the light. And I was so curious. I was like, "Did they run outside every day? How did they manufacture this gorgeous light?"
Anna Franchese Gass:
Thank you so much for noticing that because that was very intentional. So one of the things that I wanted to do when this book came out, and my editor Amanda really loved the idea, which is instead of breaking this up by sweet or savory, appetizer, whatever, let's do it by time of day. So you get up in the morning, just picture this. Italy, 2024, you're there and you get up and you have your little espresso and you're out the door. But then 10:00 A.M., as you know if you go to Italy, a lot of stuff closes because everyone's having their mid-morning snack. There's the mid-morning snacks. And so we wanted to capture that light. And of course, when you have a genius photographer like Linda and a fantastic prop stylist like Maeve and Greg there that are holding up cardboard and all the different photo tricks to get different light, it was such a learning experience for me and really cool. "Okay, so does this look like mid-morning? Does it look like the sun's peeking over?"
Kerry Diamond:
I thought maybe at first I was like, "Did they shoot this in Italy?" I was really just taken with the book going through it, and I was like, "If she got the budget to shoot this in Italy?"
Anna Franchese Gass:
So I'm big time, but I'm not that big time. No. So what happened was I did go to Italy and I hired a photographer there. Andrea DiLorenzo, can't get more Italian than that. He's amazing. And we frolicked around Italy taking pictures. I wanted this to transport you. When some early readers were like, "Oh my God, I went to Florence for study abroad and this book brought me right back." And it's like, "Done. Great." That's what I wanted. But, yeah, so we have mid-morning, and then it's called 'spuntino di metà mattina' which means middle of the morning snack. Then you actually, obviously, you have your lunch.
Kerry Diamond:
Pick something from the book that's a perfect mid-morning snack.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Okay. So in the morning people joke, when they go to Italy, there's no cereal section in the grocery store. There's a cookie section. Because Italians before noon eat cookies. And they're not really sweet. No Italian dessert is super sweet. So you'll notice even when you're eating something sweet from the book, it's not overpowered with frosting or sugar. But, yeah, they'll sit down, they'll have cappuccino and they'll have some cookies. So I have a ton of cookies in the book. And that is a typical morning snack.
Another morning snack is called deliziosa pizza, which means delicious pizza, and it's these little puff pastry pizzas, which my kids said tastes like Hot Pockets. So that's really fun to have in the morning. And it's just a time of day that's kind of getting you to lunch, because you got up really early and you were out the door and you didn't have much, and 10:00 you get the rumbles and you just have something quick.
So then you have your lunch. And then the next section of the book is called merenda. And this is actually known throughout Europe and Latin America. And it's basically your after school snack. What's really cool, just because I love languages and etymology, I studied Latin and Italian, is merende means to deserve in Latin, it comes from the word merere. And what I think is really cool about that is it's like, "Okay, hon, you went to school, you worked really hard, you're coming home. So Nona's got a snack for you." It's your merenda. The merenda section is a lot of snacking cakes. Mortadella paninis because mortadella is also having a moment right now. Sorry, guys. Italian kids used to tease us in the lunchroom with our mortadella. "Why does your bologna have pistachios in it?"
Kerry Diamond:
What comes after merenda?
Anna Franchese Gass:
The next thing after merenda, which is something we have embraced here in the US, which is your aperitivo hour. We can thank the French, the Italians, like the Spanish. I call it adult merenda, because the kids are going home and they're having their afternoon snack. The adults are kind of going to the bars. What's nice in Italy though is you never get served a drink without some food. They don't have traditional bars. You don't go to a bar just to drink. It's a restaurant or a cafe that serves alcohol but also serves food. So even if they're just giving you a little plate of taralli, which I have in the book, little plate of nuts, I have fried olives in the book. These are all things that are served with your cocktail hour. Even though I love a good board, I love charcuterie, antipasti boards, they're fun, there's other things that you can serve that are just as fun and easy to put together
Kerry Diamond:
And then what comes next?
Anna Franchese Gass:
Those are really the times. But I wanted to dedicate a section to street food because it's such a large part of Italian culture. I went to Palermo and I loved it because it's such a huge part of their day. I mean literally on their way to school, on their way home, it's just grabbing these small bites to eat. It's not just nuts for nuts like we have in New York City. This is real food that people are preparing. You can get a dish of fritto misto, fresh fried fish, and they're doing it all day long. I was like, "Who cooks?" I would never want to cook if I lived here. The food's amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
Nuts for nuts might be lost on non-New Yorkers.
Anna Franchese Gass:
All right, it's a cart where you can buy some nuts here in the city.
Kerry Diamond:
And tell us street food in Italian.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Cibo di la strada. But I will tell you, Italians love anything American, so even Italians will call it street food, but they'll say lo street food, the street food. So the lo is the the.
Kerry Diamond:
Give us a few examples of street food.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Frita dina di pasta , which is fried pasta. It really doesn't get better than that. I was in Naples and they handed me this little square battered piece of pasta that had ham and peas and lots of cheese and you just melts in your mouth. And the coolest thing about it is you can make it with leftover pasta. So if you make pasta and you have it over the next day, you just kind of mix it up with some of the sauce that I tell you how to make and you cut it up and fry.
Kerry Diamond:
Is the pasta in the middle still soft and the stuff on the outside's crunchy, okay.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Yeah. And then also pizzas considered street food in Italy, so I have a lot of pizzas in the book, fried pizzas, calzone. What I'm really proud of with the pizza section is I came up with one dough. I call it my all-purpose dough. And if you can master this dough, which is super simple to master, you can make lots of recipes in the book. And then I did the same thing with brioche. I have one very simple brioche recipe, that you can make sweet or savory. And we have to talk about brioche. It's another street food. And Italians, wait for it, folks. They have a meat doughnut. It's a doughnut filled with ground beef and sauce and it is glorious and I don't know how we never have transferred that here.
Kerry Diamond:
What's it called?
Anna Franchese Gass:
Ritzola.
Kerry Diamond:
You might have to do a pop-up.
Anna Franchese Gass:
I really should.
Kerry Diamond:
Have you thought about it?
Anna Franchese Gass:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
With Fan Fan Doughnuts, Fanny. She's great. She's the queen of the doughnut collab.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Oh my gosh. And it's savory. It's fantastic. They have another doughnut that I have in here. It's called the Iris, and it's a doughnut filled with cannoli cream. Yum to the yum.
Kerry Diamond:
You dedicated the book to your dad.
Anna Franchese Gass:
I did.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us why.
Anna Franchese Gass:
My origin story is a little different. So I am absolutely Italian American, but only on my dad's side. My mom was born in Italy. I was actually born in Italy, but I came here at one years old, so that's why I don't have an accent. My dad is Italian American, third or fourth generation, but he grew up in a house, no one spoke Italian, but he just loved everything Italy and he loved his grandparents. When he went to college, he majored in Italian and then decided to go to University of Rome. So he went there and he met my mom, classic Italian love story. And they were going to live there and I was born.
What basically happened was he went to the south to go visit his cousin because he's like, "Oh, I have Italian relatives. I should go visit my cousin." And his cousin is married to my aunt, so my aunt's like, "Oh, I have a little sister." The arrangement, they met, they fell in love. My mom would be rolling her eyes right now. No, but they did. They had a really nice meeting and they got married and they planned to stay, but they didn't. So they decided to come back here to the States.
I have dual citizenship, so don't worry, I can still be president if called upon.
Kerry Diamond:
Thank God.
Anna Franchese Gass:
I know. Whew. Yeah, so they moved here, but I grew up in what I called a very mixed home because I spoke to my dad in English. I spoke to my mom in Italian. It was interesting because I was very much an American kid out of the house, but in the house it was very Italian run. So I dedicated the book to my dad because he just always ingrained into me how proud I should be. And when you're a kid, you just want to fit in. You don't want to be different. You don't want to be seen as different, and I joke about it, but yeah, going to school and getting teased for your lunch. And I've talked to this with other immigrant kids. Like it happened. Or teased because my mom had an accent or whatever it might be.
My dad was always like, "Don't listen to anybody. Being Italian's the best." And teaching me Italian culture, bringing me back to Italy so that now my kids are like, "Oh my god, mom, you're so obsessed with being Italian." But I am and I'm just proud With my first book, I said it was my love letter to immigrant women, and with this book, it's my love letter to Italy, my homeland.
Kerry Diamond:
It's definitely a continuation of the first book, but extremely different at the same time.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Yeah, I mean, in a way I kind of feel like this is my first book because with Heirloom Kitchen it was really about promoting these women as just heroes of their family. They came to this country with nothing. They have all these homeland recipes that they preserved. My whole aim with that book was getting their story right. Very journalistic. I wanted to make sure that I had the dates right, the people that they met, how they got here, make sure the recipes were perfect, their recipes. With this, I kind of got to just kind of flex my own culinary muscle, go to Italy, try something and say, "Okay, how did they do this? I'm going to go back to my home kitchen in the US and recreate it." So I'm really proud that I was able to show my skill set in a different way.
Kerry Diamond:
How was it telling your own story?
Anna Franchese Gass:
I did tell my story in the first book because my mom is the main person. But, yeah, I mean with this book, I think what I really try to instill in obviously an American audience is that, like I said, I love Italian American cuisine. I love Italian American culture. I'm all about the gabagool and the rigot, but I think there's just so much more that we can explore.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us a little bit more about your mom. I have been very lucky that your mom gave me a pasta making lesson. I have eaten your mom's meatballs. That is still one of my favorite recipes that we've ever run in Cherry Bombe. Did your mom teach you how to cook?
Anna Franchese Gass:
She did. It was interesting growing up. I think I had a typical '90s mom, , like, "Whatever, get out of the kitchen. I'm busy. I'm trying to work my job." It wasn't like, "Let's bake today." But I definitely learned by osmosis. And my dad would also kind of usher us into the kitchen and say, "You have to learn how to make your mom's lasagna. You have to learn how to make these things." He really pushed.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh really?
Anna Franchese Gass:
Oh yeah. And he'd tell her, "Come on, let the girls help."
Kerry Diamond:
That's so interesting.
Anna Franchese Gass:
My sister and I laugh about this photo that we have. We made a lasagna with my mom, and I mean you know, Kerry, we don't have 1000 photos from every day of our lives as kids, but we had this one photo of me and my sister holding a lasagna like a prize because we had just cooked it with my mom. Like the seven photos from childhood that our generation has.
But anyway, it's funny. I come from cooks. My grandmother was a lunch lady in Italy. My aunts, I have one that owns a pizzeria, one that owns a bar, restaurant, and then another one that's a head chef at a fancy place. So my aunts are all cooks. And my mom has five sisters, by the way. She's the only one that came here. And then my mom ended up being a banquet chef. So I was always in the kitchen with her because back when there was no labor laws, you could go into the kitchen at 10 years old and peel carrots with your mom.
So, yeah, I was always kind of in a kitchen. It's funny because when I went to college, I went to NYU. I was going to be a psychologist and the big career and live in the city and do all those things. I never really looked at cooking that way. It was always like this domestic task. And I credit Rachael Ray and Food Network that were kind of like, "Wait, cooking can be a career?" So I was a career changer. I ended up going to culinary school at 27 years old. I already had a baby, and another baby coming, went to culinary school. And then ended up working at Martha Stewart, Food 52, and kind of carved out a career out of something that I never would've thought.
Kerry Diamond:
Right, you weren't attracted to the restaurant kitchen.
Anna Franchese Gass:
I think by the time I figured it all out, it just wasn't really an option for me. I spent some time in restaurants because culinary school really pushes it just to learn and master the technique of making the same dish every night perfect. Exactly the same. Which people don't realize how difficult that is, but when you go out to eat and you get that plate of pasta and then you go there a month later and it tastes exactly the same, that's a skill set. And because if it doesn't taste the same, you're disappointed. You want the pasta you had last time. I'm glad I learned that, but because I was older and I already had a family, really immersing myself into a professional kitchen wasn't an option. And I did have a journalism minor. I think I'm a pretty good writer. I kind of find a way to carve my food love and my love of journalism and writing and expressing myself through, in that form, through cookbooks.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm so interested though in the fact that your dad really wanted you to know these family recipes.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Yeah, my dad was really the one. Again, a total Italophile, and also just a lover. I mean, my dad's a pretty typical Italian dad, very loving, very dedicated to our family. I'm very lucky with the two parents that I was raised in a loving home where again, my sister and I were always told that we're the best, and the food that we had was the best, and our traditions were the best, and so we need to do that. So the book had a pub date of St. Joseph's Day, which not a lot of people know, but it is March 19th. My father's name is Joseph. And we make zeppolis every year or at Easter certain dishes that we had to know.
But my dad would always put it in context, "You need to know this recipe because it means this to our family." And so even going to Italy to be with my family in the summertime, it was always, "Pay attention to this or your grandmother's making this dish. I want you to know how to make it." Some of my best kitchen memories are just being in the kitchen with my grandmother.
Kerry Diamond:
I have a street food follow-up question.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Sure.
Kerry Diamond:
Because Ruth Reichl was just here and we were talking about eating in Paris. They definitely frown on eating and walking.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Oh my God, Kerry.
Kerry Diamond:
If you go get a crepe and you eat and walk, I remember when I was working for the French, and one of my bosses knew I had this little crepe stand that I loved, and he was like, "I don't want to see you eating on the street."
Anna Franchese Gass:
Okay. So funny that you say this because I just had an interview with Milk Street and I talked about this exactly. I grew up in Rhode Island, just regular suburbia. Then I went to NYU, where New York is the capital of eating on the street. I mean someone be eating like a turkey dinner walking down the street. It's just totally acceptable.
I'm at NYU and one of my cousins from Italy was like, "I want to come visit you in New York City." "Sure." So she comes. So we go out. I'm like I'm going to show her the big city. And she keeps looking at me. So I'm like, "Georgina, what's the matter?" And she's like, "Why is everybody eating and walking?" She's like, "That man's got a pizza. That man's got a hot dog." She was blown away. And I was like, "Oh, they just do that here." I go, "Because everyone's in a rush." She's like, "That is so sad." Because again, and that's also the point of this book, it's not about the quick, the processed, the, "I have to get to my next meeting." It's truly sitting down, which I'm sure most Americans would find infuriating.
Kerry Diamond:
Eating in our cars, eating as we walk to the subway, eating on the subway.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Oh my God, it's like how many times have you been in traffic and you see someone eating a salad in their car and you're like, "Really?" But it's just part of our culture. And there it is so against everything. It's sacrilegious.
Kerry Diamond:
So the street food over there, you'll stand at the stand?
Anna Franchese Gass:
Exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
Or sit.
Anna Franchese Gass:
So what I tell people is if you go to Italy, the one thing that you're allowed to eat walking around, and they still sit, but you're allowed, is a gelato. You can walk around eating a gelato. It's allowed. The Italians won't get too angry. They're going to say, "Oh, why don't you sit for a minute?" But if you really want to eat your gelato walking around, you can.
Kerry Diamond:
Coffee.
Anna Franchese Gass:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
To go coffee.
Anna Franchese Gass:
You have to say portare via. They had to make up a word for Americans because, no, you drink your coffee at the bar, you talk to your friend, you chase it with a little thimble of water and then you go on your way. We don't eat out in the street.
Listen, I grew up in the US. I have been known to eat a slice on a corner. Don't worry. I'm just telling you that culturally there is definitely a big difference. I think we should embrace it. I am team sit down and eat, sit down and enjoy. And in Italy, anyone that goes there will tell you, anything that they put in front of you is truly made with all the love in their heart, whether it is that slice of pizza or whatever, they will talk to you about where they got the mozzarella and where the sauce was made, and it's so incredibly important. They just want you to enjoy it.
Kerry Diamond:
Even the meat doughnut?
Anna Franchese Gass:
Even the meat doughnut.
Kerry Diamond:
There's always more to your books than meets the eye. Like your previous book, all the interviews with immigrant women about their food and their recipes, and even this, there's a bigger message. I feel like we're getting at what the message of this is. Maybe it's slow down.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Yeah. I mean thank you so much.
Kerry Diamond:
Be with people.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Because I feel like you get me, Kerry.. You just get me. No, I mean look, I think maybe it is my journalistic background and the fact that I do think that the cookbook world is a very crowded space, and I don't say that in a negative way, but jeez. I mean there's five cookbooks come out every day. So if I'm asking you to spend your money on my book, which is a big ask, I think, because you can go on the internet. You can go on TikTok now. I mean you can go anywhere and get a recipe for anything, but I'm asking you to invest in my book. If I'm asking you that, well, what am I going to give you for that money? And I think maybe that's the way I've always looked at it. I want you to buy this book and I want you to feel like you're in Italy. I have regional information. You can look up any region of Italy and understand why they eat what they eat.
Because I do find it fascinating that you're going to have a meat doughnut in Sicily, but you're not going to find that meat doughnut in Cervinia, which is up way up north. You're going to be eating crepes up there and you're going to be eating fondue and you're going to feel like you're in Switzerland because you almost are, so there's all those Germanic and Austrian influences. And when you're in the south, you're going to have those Arabic, African influences. I find that fascinating and I think when you're eating something and you're enjoying it's also nice to know the backstory. Why am I eating this? What is the climate doing? What is the topography? Italy is still truly farm to table. We do a lot more even domestic importing. That's why here you can have a strawberry in December. That might not necessarily be a good thing, but you can. You can have an avocado from California in Rhode Island. That's not the case in Italy. You're eating what's available right around you, and because of that, they've preserved these cultures and traditions of each region, and I wanted to give you that info.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, there's definitely the regionality aspect to it. You also take some of the pressure off people to cook.
Anna Franchese Gass:
100%.
Kerry Diamond:
Because so many people, you don't sit down and have meals today, you graze.
Anna Franchese Gass:
And this is the thing, I also, I am a mom, unapologetically. My family is the most important thing to me, learned that from my parents. When I talk to other moms and they're like, "Oh, but you cook for a living and I'm busy." I'm like, "Listen, you don't have to make my pizza dough. Why don't you just grab a pizza dough at the store. Or go to your pizzeria, they'll sell it to you for four bucks. Get some jarred sauce, get the ingredients for my quattro stagoni, which is amazing pizza with four different toppings and get the kids together and everybody make a pizza." And you didn't really do any work and no one's going to remember how it tasted, but they're going to remember that you were together.
Kerry Diamond:
What is the most personal recipe?
Anna Franchese Gass:
That's a good question. The pasti chotto, which is just basically a little filled cupcake, but what I love about it is it's different based on where you're coming from. And I have a recipe in my first book, they're called bucanote, which just basically means little bite, but in Calabria we fill these little cupcakes with jam or with chocolate. But then if you go to Naples, they fill them with custard and then they put one amarena cherry in it so it's like this little bite. I just love the fact that it's this little cupcake that you can have all the way through, but your filling will be different.
I tell the story how I learned it from my aunts, but then I went to Naples and I was like, "Oh wait, I think I might like this better." Like the custard, the vanilla custard. I just think that's fun. I think the other thing that's fun about just cooking in general is that you learn that borders are really arbitrary. We're all eating the same food by different names. I definitely learned that with Heirloom Kitchen too. You might call it this and I might call it this, but it's the same dish.
Kerry Diamond:
Which recipe is the best gateway recipe? Sort of opens you up to other recipes in the book?
Anna Franchese Gass:
All right, so if you want a little bit of a project, but a big I feel very proud of myself. I actually think you should do the cannolis. The dough is super easy. You do have to buy the molds on Amazon, but they're like eight bucks, guys. And then you have cannoli molds. They're really just fun to make at home. And I am telling you, they are so good. If you don't want to go that crazy and you want to just keep it real simple, make those pizza pockets that I'm talking about, because all you need to buy is puff pastry, shredded mozz, and some, if you want, jarred marinara or I have obviously a recipe for my mom's sauce in the book. And you make these pizza pockets and I'm telling you, they are phenomenal. And you can freeze them too and then just like a real Hot Pocket. I don't know, am I aging myself talking about Hot Pockets?
Kerry Diamond:
No, everybody loves a Hot Pocket. I did not grow up on Hot Pockets. For me it was the English muffin pizza. Did you have English muffin pizzas when you were a kid?
Anna Franchese Gass:
Of course I did.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. God, I loved making those.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Yeah. Put them in the toaster.
Kerry Diamond:
You've got cannolis on the cover. How does one make a cannoli?
Anna Franchese Gass:
So what's cool about it is, so you make this very easy dough, and I tested mine in a food processor because I figured at least your just kind of dumping everything in a processor and then you have a dough. And then the cannoli cream is so easy. It's ricotta cheese. I add a little mascarpone, confectioners sugar. That's all it is. And then you can put your mini chocolate chips, your pistachios, whatever you fancy. And then you're just cutting out little circles, rolling out that dough, wrapping it around this mold, and frying them. And then they come right off the mold. It's not that hard. As long as you're okay with frying. And no, you can't make them in the air fryer.
Kerry Diamond:
Do people ask you that?
Anna Franchese Gass:
Everything.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's so funny.
Anna Franchese Gass:
"Can I put this in the air fryer?"
Kerry Diamond:
Tell me about work these days. What are you doing for work? You always work with interesting people.
Anna Franchese Gass:
I do. I mean, it's funny, The New York Times just had a very lovely meet and greet for the collaborators so I got to talk with all the different people that do exactly what I do. And we were just talking about the hustle. If you work for yourself, you're always like, "Okay, who's taking pitches? Who's doing this? Who's doing that?" I also like doing a lot of TV, so I'm also pitching TV and doing that stuff.
I really just try to keep myself busy. I'm also the kind of person I'm always like, "Okay, now what? Okay, now what?" Which is not a good way to be. But, okay, now the book's out and I'm going to spend the next three months promoting my heart out. Although as with the Heirloom Kitchen, I'll be promoting it for the rest of my life. And then it's like, yeah, what's the next step? What's the next thing that I want to do? I have been doing some TV, which has been fun. Anyone that knows Rachael Ray, she left her show, but in true Rachael Ray fashion is still at it, and she has her own production company, so she's kind of invited me on some stuff there and that's been great.
Kerry Diamond:
Italy has become such a popular destination for vacation. If you are prone to Instagram FOMO, it seemed like last year half the people I knew were in Italy for the summer.
Anna Franchese Gass:
And Beyonce.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, Beyonce was too?
Anna Franchese Gass:
Oh my gosh, yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, how funny. If you want to go to Italy, when should you go and where should you go?
Anna Franchese Gass:
I think that a lot of people go to Italy in the summer. I think it's great. It's warm. You're out in the water wherever you are. But truly, I think September and October are really nice, especially if you're in the south. It's still incredibly warm, but not too warm. Sicily has reached some pretty record scary highs in the last couple of years where August was actually not a great time to be in Sicily, but September and October things start calming down. All the vendors, everyone's still lively, so you don't feel like it's downtime, but it's less touristy.
And I also tell people, stay in an Airbnb that has a kitchen because I can tell you when I go to Italy, as much as I love the restaurants, the last time I was there, my kids, their favorite meals in Italy were the ones that I made in our little Airbnb, because even the jarred tomato sauce tastes better, the pasta tastes better. I don't know if it's the water, if it's the sentiment, whatever it is. But go to Italy and go and buy some meats and cheeses and snack in your little apartment. It's really fun. I mean, the hotels are great. I think Americans kind of sometimes are disappointed because the rooms are much smaller. It's different, it's Europe, but an Airbnb is always fun. And there's tons of them and they're less expensive. So those are kind of my travel tips.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's do a little speed round. What beverage do you start the morning with?
Anna Franchese Gass:
A latte with oat milk.
Kerry Diamond:
What's always in your fridge?
Anna Franchese Gass:
I always have ricotta salata, which is very random, but it just tastes so good. It's like a cured ricotta cheese. If you haven't had it, try it.
Kerry Diamond:
What is a treasured cookbook or book on food?
Anna Franchese Gass:
Julia Child. I went to French Culinary Institute. So when I kind of just want to flex my culinary, and by the way, her quiche is still the best quiche you'll ever have.
Kerry Diamond:
What was your favorite childhood food?
Anna Franchese Gass:
Favorite childhood food. So I grew up in a house where my mom cooked and then we weren't really allowed to eat processed food, so I'm giving you a big, deep, dark secret. I loved frozen chicken pot pie. I'd come home from school. I was a latchkey kid. My mom was always at the restaurant. And I just throw one of those babies in the oven. Yum.
Kerry Diamond:
I think I ate a lot of that too as a kid. What is your favorite snack food today? So we're talking about Italian snacking. Oh my gosh. How do you even pick one thing?
Anna Franchese Gass:
I mean, I just like a good slice. And you can get really good pizza nowadays. I mean people really go all in. But a really good pizza slice? There's nothing like it and it's the perfect snack, like one slice.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you have a favorite slice shop in the city or pizza place?
Anna Franchese Gass:
I don't really eat pizza in the city. My sister lives in Brooklyn, as you know, so I'll come to her house and be like, "Do you want to go to Roberta's?" I mean, when I'm eating Roberta's pizza, I do really feel like I'm eating Italian pizza.
Kerry Diamond:
What's your favorite kitchen implement?
Anna Franchese Gass:
I tell people if they really want to get in the kitchen and start cooking, and I know they're investments, but I think a KitchenAid's a great thing to have and I think a food processor. I know it's like, "Oh my gosh," especially for city folk, it's hard, but if you're going to have two appliances, they really do make your life easier. A dough, a cookie batter. Believe it or not. I mean, I love the wooden spoon. I mean my Nona's, they all used the wooden spoon, but for many reasons. Yeah, I think those are two things you should invest in. And some good pans.
Kerry Diamond:
Last question. If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Anna Franchese Gass:
Okay, so last time I was on, I said Oprah, and you laughed, as you're laughing now, because I was very strategic. I'm like, "Gail sending the chopper." We're not stranded for long. We'd be there for a meal and then Gail's on the way. So let me think for this time. Geez, I should have known you were going to ask me this again. I mean Oprah's just kind of like a solid answer.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you want to stay on the island for a little while longer this time?
Anna Franchese Gass:
Yeah, let's hang out on the island. Let's say it's one of the Italian islands. I'm pretty happy. I don't know. Stanley Tucci. You know I love him. I'd cook.
Kerry Diamond:
We all love Stanley. Hi Stanley.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Hi Stanley. I'd cook for him.
Kerry Diamond:
We do love Stanley. Anna, congratulations on this gorgeous book. Like I said, I think it's going to be around forever.
Anna Franchese Gass:
Thank you. Thanks for having me and thanks for all the support.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's take a short break and we'll be right back.
Thank you to Walmart for supporting this episode of Radio Cherry Bombe. Walmart is committed to empowering women all year long and supports female entrepreneurs by carrying an incredible range of female founded and fueled brands. Brands like Afro Unicorn, how cute is that name, the clothing and accessories company founded by April Showers. Bloom Nutrition Supplements, created by Mari Llewellyn. And Siete Family Foods, the Mexican-American food brand by Veronica Garza, and as the name says, her family. Check out these brands and more of our female fueled favorites over at walmart.com/celebrateher. You can find that link in our show notes.
Next, we have a special treat from Jubilee 2023. It's a solo talk from Justice of the Pies baker and author, Maya-Camille Broussard.
Maya-Camille Broussard:
Hello. Thank you to Kerry and the whole Cherry Bombe team for having me here today and for creating a beautiful platform for women in the hospitality industry to come and congregate, make connections, and leave inspired.
I founded my bakery, Justice of the Pies, in 2014 in memory of my late father, Steve Broussard. He was a criminal defense attorney who loved to eat, but he most especially loved pies and quiches. When people hear me tell my story and learn of the inspiration behind my bakery, which was him, they always ask me two questions. First, "Did your father teach you how to bake?" And second, "Did your father share any of his recipes with you?"
The answer is no and no. My dad was very competitive and secretive about his recipes. I was his only child, so I don't know where he thought his recipes were going, but truthfully, he didn't share his recipes because he wanted me to exercise my own creativity. He also didn't teach me to bake because he didn't have the patience to. He simply just wanted to get it over with and get it done instead of explaining the steps because he was hungry.
The women in my family taught me everything, everything I know. When I was in the first grade and my mother was 33 years old, she entered med school. Going to med school straight out of college is already intense, so imagine doing that with a young child. Thankfully, we had a village. During her med school and residency journey the women in our family stepped in to help with me. I found myself always with my grandmothers and or with my aunts. I was raised and nurtured by incredible women who poured into me. They are the catalyst for my culinary path. My mother taught me how to make peach cobbler. If I spent the night at my Aunt Sandy's house, she would always ask me, "Hey, pumpkin. What do you want to bake tonight?" My great Aunt Ruby would not reveal her age to any of us, but she always shared many of her secret recipes with me. I've had her pound cake recipe for years. And I just found out six months ago that she's 97.
I was born and raised in Chicago, Illinois, and for many of us in the Black community, we call Chicago up south, because although we are geographically identified as the Midwest, the soul of the city is very Southern. It was one of the cities that was transformed during the Great Migration, which was a long-term movement during which Blacks from the South moved up north for better jobs and a better quality of life. My great-grandmothers and grandmothers migrated from Anderson, South Carolina, New Iberia, okay, Anderson, New Iberia, and Lake Charles, Louisiana and Birmingham Alabama. Okay. Not only did they bring their farming and gardening knowledge, they also brought with them their delicious and soul-warming recipes and their Southern sensibilities. Much of that was passed on down to my mother and my aunts and myself. So while the women in my family were teaching me how to bake and cook, they were also sharing their Southern Black idioms that have guided me throughout my entire life.
I hold so much value in these phrases because they are often the gentle reminder that I need every now and then as I move as a woman in this world. You might recognize some of them. Feel free to help me finish the phrase if you are familiar. Always follow your first mind. Clear yourself of any doubtful thinking and rely on your intuition. Science has proven that women's intuition is higher due to an increased blood flow to our brains. And just a feeling that we have. Intuition is simply thinking with sensation and as women, we are historically known to have more empathy and we can rely on feelings. Go with that feeling.
It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to. I've been called Helen Keller, Miracle Ear, Beltone, but I only respond to Maya-Camille Boussard. Only you only can decide who you are and how you are labeled. Never allow someone to determine your brand, your identity, or how you are widely viewed.
I like this one. You can't make a omelet without breaking a few eggs. In order to achieve greatness, sometimes we have to sacrifice a lot. Sometimes we have to make mistakes. Sometimes it's impossible to achieve a goal without first going through the fire. Maybe that means a previously failed venture. Maybe it's the loss of friendship. Maybe it's not getting what you wanted when you wanted it.
This is my mom's favorite. Give people their flowers while they are living. Speak love and kindness into those who have affected you in a positive way. Celebrate those who inspire you. Don't wait until it's too late to uplift someone else, be it an elder or a peer. A show of appreciation is one of the highest forms of love.
Many hands make light work. We could do more for each other when we are willing to extend our help. Don't be stingy with informational resources. Speak the names of others even when they are not in the room. Help each other elevate in our careers without expecting to get something out of it. We can all benefit from pulling someone else up as we climb.
The youth can walk faster, but the elder knows the road. Power often lies with the industry titans who have their experience and connection or the seasoned professional with years of service. They may not be as fast to move as you do, but they can get there more quickly. Be persistent in respectfully aiming to connect with them.
This is my favorite. Scared money don't make none. It's okay to have fear, but don't panic. Panicking will paralyze you and you won't get anywhere. You can't stop trouble from coming, but you don't have to give it a chair to sit on. The wind is going to blow you in whatever direction it may, but you have to adjust yourself to get it to your destination. You cannot change the fact that pitfalls may happen, but you can decide not to dock your setback or your pain, or else you will continuously harbor misery.
If you can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen. Don't be afraid of confrontation or pressure. If you're not able to withstand criticism, or the difficulties of the work that we're called to do, then step aside. Take a break. Give yourself a vacation. Don't complain about it. Just allow someone else to have the opportunity to do that work.
My favorite. Closed mouths don't get fed and closed fists can't get bread. You have to be very clear about your ask, whether you are talking with a network executive or with a publisher, or even if you're just simply like jotting down your manifestations, your dreams, your wishes, or your goal in a journal. You have to be very clear about what you want. We won't know unless you tell us. On the other hand, the universe's karmic power is real. The same hand that is closed to give is also the same hand that is closed to receive. Be open. Be approachable. Be willing to share and watch the blessings fall down in your lap.
I owe everything I am to the women who raised me. Many of them are my ancestors now, but they did not leave this earthly plane without gifting me with these expressions that I often rely on. I am a better woman because of it, and in sharing this, I hope that you'll find that you are too. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. I would love for you to subscribe to Radio Cherry Bombe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And leave a rating and a review. I would love to know what you think about the show and your ideas for future guests. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazan is the studio engineer for Newsstand Studios. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Elizabeth Vogt. Our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu and our editorial assistant is Londyn Crenshaw. Thanks for listening, everybody. You are the Bombe.